Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: Rhode Island State Meet featuring James Lourenco from La Salle Academy

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BONUS: Rhode Island State Meet featuring James Lourenco from La Salle Academy · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:00
  It's bonus time here on the Gill Connections podcast.
• 0:03
  In an effort to increase communication, empathy and
• 0:06
  understanding around the country, we're going to be
• 0:08
  running a new episode every day interviewing a coach, a high
• 0:12
  school coach from every state, and yes, even you, Washington,
• 0:16
  DC with explaining how the state qualifying system works in their
• 0:21
  state. We'll be talking with a local
• 0:23
  state expert on how many classes, private versus public
• 0:27
  schools, what events and what is the process?
• 0:30
  Is it areas, districts, regionals, state meet?
• 0:34
  Is it a descending order list? Are there fun things that you do
• 0:38
  a little differently? Like maybe you, I don't know,
• 0:41
  maybe you do double points for relays looking at you Texas.
• 0:45
  And then we're also going to get to the bottom of is it the state
• 0:48
  meet or do you qualify for states?
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  So check us out every day here in April and May of 2024 as we
• 0:54
  run through each state with a local state expert.
• 0:57
  So let's get started right now. All right, here we go.
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  We're continuing to move around the country as we look at
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  outdoor state track and field meets everywhere.
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  And we are learning a ton. If you started with us back in
• 1:20
  April on Alabama you know we have.
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  We've gone around the world and done some things and talked
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  about some things you might not have ever even dreamed about for
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  high school track and field. And so I'm excited today to
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  learn about Rhode Island. I have some assumptions about
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  Rhode Island but we all know what assuming does.
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  But we're going to get learnt. We're going to get taught today.
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  Help me welcome from LaSalle Academy Mr. James, Lorenko,
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  James. How are you today, Sir?
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  I'm good. Thanks for having me Mike.
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  Really looking forward to doing this.
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  Hey, thank you. You know, this project doesn't
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  happen without the 51 servant leaders volunteering for this,
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  so I'm very grateful. We're all of us here at Gil,
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  extremely grateful and thankful for you stepping up here for
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  Rhode Island. We're we're super excited, man.
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  Like I said, this is a this is a great little state.
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  You know, I hate to say it that way, but you know what it is.
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  And so we're excited to learn about some uniquenesses that we
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  may have here in the state. So thank you my friend for being
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  here. My pleasure.
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  Sounds good. I know Rhode Island is a small
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  state, but I think if you look traditionally, we punch a little
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  bit above our weight when it comes to track and field.
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  So I'm glad we can contribute to this podcast.
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  That's a great point. That's exactly right.
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  Well, why don't we start maybe a 32nd 30,000 foot level
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  introduction of you. Give yourself some St. cred.
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  Why should we be listening to you here on Rhode Island?
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  Sure thing. So this is my 13th year coaching
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  in the state of Rhode Island. This is my fifth year at LaSalle
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  Academy, where I help out with the sprints, jumps and hurdles
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  along with our head coach, Coach Dave Wright.
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  He's a longtime head coach for us here at LaSalle.
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  Do a little bit of pole vault coaching in the spring as well.
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  Before that, for eight years I was a coach at Bishop Henrick in
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  high school in Warwick, RI, where I did sprints, jumps,
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  hurdles as well there. And I thought I would be a good
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  person for this podcast because I also serve as the indoor
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  director for the Rhode Island Track Coaches Association on the
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  girls side. So that involves putting on.
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  Meets as a meat director, organizing a whole junior
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  varsity schedule, some invites that we put on, collecting dues,
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  that kind of thing, Putting on a banquet at the end of the season
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  and and voting on these types of issues that impact how we run
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  the state meet. So I thought given those
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  qualifications, I might be a good person for the for the job.
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  I think we got the right person. Yeah.
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  This sounds good. Yeah, we're we're good.
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  You're you're involved. Not just as a coach, which
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  that's huge, of course, but also some of the, I hate to call it
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  the political side, but the administrative side and the
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  things that you know how we make rules and and what when do we do
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  those events and those kind of things.
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  So I I appreciate that. That's awesome.
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  Well, let's start out. You know some states, and we're
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  learning not many, but some states have a separate
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  organization that runs private schools in the state and they
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  have their own a separate private private school, state
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  meet and a separate public school more common.
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  Everybody's kind of competing together towards the same state
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  meets. What are we doing in Rhode
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  Island, Private and public schools?
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  So one of the many ways that Rhode Island is unique is that
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  there is no designation really between private and public
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  schools. There's a high percentage of
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  Catholic schools in Rhode Island.
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  I think Rhode Island is one of the largest by percentage of
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  population of having a Catholic residency here in the state.
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  So what that results in is a lot of private schools that compete
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  against public schools. So all schools that are involved
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  are part of the Rhode Island Interscholastic League.
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  There's 60 member schools, private and public.
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  There are prep schools in the state, but they compete
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  separately in the prep school league.
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  And the designation really is, as long as you don't give out
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  athletic scholarships and you don't actively recruit student
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  athletes, then you can compete in the Rhode Island
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  Interscholastic League, got it. That's that's common.
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  So it's good. All right.
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  So you said there are 60 schools in the the whole state?
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  60 schools that compete in the Interscholastic League, Yes.
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  Got it. So how do we, you know, we, we
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  call them classes, divisions, all these things.
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  How many classes do we do here in Rhode Island?
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  So in the state of Rhode Island, we have three classes that that
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  is our designation we use for based on population, what
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  grouping you're going to be in. We have Class A, which is the
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  largest, and then Class B and Class C all right.
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  So we've got AB and C&A is our big and C is our less populated
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  schools. So we've got three teams that
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  are working towards winning A state championship title and
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  three girls teams that are working towards a state
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  championship title. Correct.
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  But I think it would be a good time as any right now to to
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  explain to you that in the state of Rhode Island, nobody would
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  use that designation of a state champion.
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  If you won your class meet. If you go on the Interscholastic
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  League website right now and you look at the programs for these
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  meets, they would just be called the Class A meet or the Class B
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  meet in the state of Rhode Island.
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  What we do, what many other states would call an Allstate
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  meet or meet of champions. That meet is really viewed as
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  the state championship and whatever team wins that meet
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  they they would be referred to as the state champion and
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  whatever individual or athlete or relay in that case wins their
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  event at the state championship. They're the state champions.
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  You know it's it's a it's a small state so it, you know,
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  maybe we just don't feel the need to have that many state
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  champions or are crowning multiple people.
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  I understand why, you know, state like Texas or Florida
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  would approach it that way, but. In the state of Rhode Island,
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  you'll never hear anyone refer to a class champion as the Class
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  A state champion. So is it a Class A championship?
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  It's not the state championship, but is it a Class A?
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  Do we have a class A&B and CI wanted to say state they're so
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  bad championship meet though. Yeah, that that is.
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  That is the language we would use here in the state.
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  So OK. So do I have to qualify for that
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  meet or is that an open meet? It is an open meet, believe it
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  or not. OK.
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  Let me explain to you the process for that and it would be
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  important probably for your audience here to know.
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  Rhode Island does do a full indoor season as well and the
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  the process for qualifying is different indoors from outdoors.
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  So let me stick with outdoors. For the outdoor class
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  championship, all that has to happen for you to participate is
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  your coach has to enter you and every team is restricted to 4
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  entries per event. Obviously, you know,
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  notwithstanding the relays, every team gets one relay entry.
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  So if I'm the coach at LaSalle Academy, I've got 4 entries to
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  burn in the 104, entries to burn in the two, the four, etcetera,
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  etcetera. I can use the same kit twice if
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  I like, and no, no qualifying for that if they run 60 seconds
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  in the 100. If they're my 4th person, that's
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  who I get to enter. Coaches.
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  Yes, coaches are reminded, though I I would say gently that
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  this is a championship meet. OK, good point.
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  If athlete who's going to run a 15 minute 3000, then they
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  probably should not be entered into the class championship.
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  You know James, I feel a little attacked there that you
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  mentioned my PR in the 3000 when you gave that example, so.
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  And and that is not, that is not to show any bias or or judge
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  anyone. Everyone's on their own journey
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  and everyone is trying to get back.
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  That's right. If I have a let's use that 3000
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  I think I could do a good time here.
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  If I have 5 really good 3000 meter runners does does Can I
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  get my 5th in if they're like a 9:30 or is it strict 4 is your
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  your most. That's a great question.
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  So in Rhode Island, something that we implement is an at large
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  entry. So every coach gets 4 entries
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  into every event, but every coach has at their disposal two
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  at large entries. So they can use the same athlete
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  twice. So let's say I had a fifth
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  sprinter who's just dynamite and I want to get him into the 100
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  and the 200. Well that kids that kids in
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  both, but now my my AT larges are are burned.
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  Or I could you know do two kids in the same events.
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  Like let's say I have a 5th and 6th great 3K runner right?
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  And I want to put them both out there because I think that they
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  can score. I could use my AT larges that
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  way too. So you get 2 at large entries to
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  be used however you want. It's not two different athletes
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  necessarily. It's two event placeholders in
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  any events. If I have that third shot putter
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  and that, or I guess not third like that fifth shot putter and
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  a fifth 800 meter runner, I can get those guys or gals into that
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  no matter what. Any event that's cool?
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  22 Wild cards for for the Class A Championships.
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  Yeah. So where that really comes into
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  play is with scoring, right? Because.
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  Each class is only roughly about, I mean, it's less than 20
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  teams because even though I said we have 60, not every school
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  participates in track and field unfortunately.
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  So it's even less than 20 teams per class.
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  And when you get into Class C, we are talking about some small
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  teams. Not every team is going to push
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  for entries into every event. So what that leaves you is let's
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  say you were a really strong. Distance program at a class city
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  school and you thought, well, my 5th 3K runner could probably
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  score points here. You're going to roll them out
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  there. So coaches will attack an event
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  that they think is weak and that's kind of how that system
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  comes into play. So my class championship, I can
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  enter 4 per event. I get these two wild cards,
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  which that's super interesting. Haven't heard that yet.
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  I like, I actually, I like that a lot for a lot of different
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  reasons. That's my only qualifying into
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  class to class championships top 4 entries and then my 2
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  wildcards is the culture of these class championships.
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  They're not state championships they're class championships.
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  Is the culture still, is this a big meet that we get up for and
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  and winning A-Team title is is still a big deal as as a class
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  AB or C? That's a that's a really good
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  question too. I can only speak to my own
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  experience, I think, on that one.
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  Well, let me put you this way. If you're a team, that's.
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  Vying for the state championship, the meat that
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  comes after the class meat. The class meat is important and
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  you always want to win. Like nobody wants to give
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  another team any energy or juice heading into the state meat.
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  But you wouldn't necessarily go all out for it and then find
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  yourself in a situation where you maybe burn a kid out or have
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  really given your best effort with.
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  The state meet two weeks away. What I've seen a lot of teams do
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  that are in a potential state championship winning, you know,
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  season. They'll use the class meet
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  sometimes as a dress rehearsal. Like, can we practice that
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  athletes particular day. You know, like we you can get a
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  good idea of what other teams are going to do at the state
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  championship by looking at what they do at a class meet.
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  Some some programs have, you know, a streak that they're
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  trying to maintain, maybe the classmates important to them for
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  that reason. And you know, you have to take
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  into account team dynamics. It always looks good for a team
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  when you win a trophy, like kids respond to that.
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  And you can use it as a it's all how you frame it, right.
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  Like if I got, if I got a team that I don't think can win the
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  Class A meet but maybe could win a state championship.
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  I mean I might tell them all right listen, we're not going to
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  win this class meet. And that's OK because we're just
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  using this to to practice this and this and that and we're
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  going to see what kids look like and we're going to really attack
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  the state meet. Or if my team wins it, I'm going
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  to say see guys, we're ready. We are we're amped up.
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  We're ready to go. Everything's pulling in the
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  right direction. Now we're going to go win A
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  state championship. Are these class championships,
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  one day meets that are all three held at the same venue, separate
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  venues? Talk to us about the class
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  championships. Sure, they're they're all at
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  different venues and they're they're usually two on one day
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  and then one on 1/3 day. And the reason for that is in
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  our state we're we're a little bit.
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  We're operator poor right now. We just don't have enough people
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  to work cameras and sometimes we don't have enough high tech
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  systems. So you know it's it's getting
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  people who are officials in the Interscholastic League who can
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  run a high tech system sometimes that leads us to having multiple
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  days. Ideally you'd have everyone on
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  the same day, same conditions, same number of days, rest,
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  heading out of the meet. But it just doesn't work that
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  way. So right now it rotates.
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  Are are they one day meets though?
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  They're they're correct. They're one day meets all right,
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  So what do I need to do in the class championship then to
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  qualify for the next round, which he says the state meets.
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  What do I got to do? Do I got to place top two, top
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  three? What do I got to do there to go
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  to the state meet? So great question.
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  I know other states do it differently, but for us, and
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  this probably adds to why the state meet is viewed as the meet
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  at the class championship. Regardless of where you place,
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  it has no impact on you advancing.
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  The class championship is a one day affair and when it's done,
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  it's done and those results don't really have an impact on
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  what's going to happen the rest of the way.
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  Our state meet has a different qualifying process that I can
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  explain to you, if you're interested, of course,
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  Absolutely. It's over here for James.
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  Before I do, I do want to go back so you know the the class
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  meet. You can't qualify for the state
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  meet with it and everyone's got their eye on the state
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  championship. But if I was a Class B or a
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  Class C team. And I knew I wasn't going to
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  win, you know, a quote, UN quote Allstate meet or A state
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  championship, that Class B or Class C meet, that's a really
• 14:35
  important meet to me and and those teams, they want to win.
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  And some of the best battles are happening actually at those
• 14:41
  smaller classes. But to your question about the
• 14:45
  state meet, so the way it's done in Rhode Island, there are a
• 14:49
  series of meets that are designated as state meet
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  qualifiers. The class meet is one of them.
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  But all those meets together contribute to a performance list
• 15:01
  that's kept throughout the season.
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  So at the end of the last meet, the last state meet qualifier,
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  it's a meet we call the last chance meet on the girl side.
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  On the boys side it's the Hendrick and Invitational.
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  After that last meet we take all the performances from the
• 15:19
  various State meet qualifiers. There's, I think about seven of
• 15:22
  them and then we we create a performance list.
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  And if you're in the top 18 in an individual event or top 24
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  for the hurdles and dash, or if your relay is in the top 15 for
• 15:35
  relays, then you are accepted into the state championship.
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  And to clarify, that's top 18 entered athletes.
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  So if I was on the bubble, if I was the 19th best pole vaulter
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  in Rhode Island, if a kid ahead of me, an athlete is not
• 15:52
  entered. Then if my coach enters me, I
• 15:54
  would get in. So you're constantly evaluating.
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  You know, I have this athlete, he's on the bubble.
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  Do I need to run that event again to kind of secure my spot
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  for the state championship? Or is my performance so good
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  from early in the season that I don't really have to worry about
• 16:09
  that event anymore? Now I can just, you know, focus
• 16:12
  on something else. But you you have these seven
• 16:15
  state qualifying meets, the state qualifying series if you
• 16:18
  will, there's obviously and maybe not obviously there are a
• 16:21
  ton of other meets may be going on, dual meets, etcetera.
• 16:24
  But these seven meets are the got the star next to them.
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  This is where the performance list is going to come from.
• 16:30
  Correct. I'm not exactly sure on the
• 16:33
  exact number. Yeah, 7:00-ish, yeah. 7:00-ish
• 16:36
  and some of them are single gender meets.
• 16:37
  So like the last week of the season, Bishop Henrigan hosts an
• 16:41
  Invitational and Bishop Henrigan is an all boys school.
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  So we have a corresponding meet at Mount Pleasant High School
• 16:46
  for for girls only, but it's about 7:00.
• 16:50
  And yeah, like, part of your strategy as a coach is all
• 16:53
  right, I've got a dual meet on Monday, but I'm coming out of a
• 16:55
  state meet qualifier, so I got to be careful how I handle that
• 16:58
  with an athlete. Or maybe I want to go to the
• 17:00
  Penn Relays, but it's the same weekend as a state meet
• 17:03
  qualifier and my kid really needs this performance in that
• 17:06
  event. So, you know, maybe I wanted to
• 17:08
  bring a four by four and a four by one to Penn, but I got to
• 17:10
  leave one kid home because they've got to run the two.
• 17:13
  So those kinds of decisions are constantly being made.
• 17:16
  It's a funky system. But here's here's the benefit.
• 17:20
  If I have a great athlete who gets a good performance early
• 17:23
  and then maybe has, you know, some sort of nagging injury, I
• 17:28
  don't have to keep pressing that kid the rest of the season.
• 17:30
  I can give him a little bit of downtime, not worry about how
• 17:33
  they perform at the class meet, and then I can have them ready
• 17:36
  to go for the state championship.
• 17:38
  So those 7:00-ish state qualifying series gives us a
• 17:42
  performance list for the individual events, except for
• 17:47
  the dash and the high hurdles, that's 24.
• 17:48
  For the individual events, it's 18.
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  They it creates this performance list of let's say 30 plus kids.
• 17:54
  The top 18 declared actually go. So to your point, if I have a
• 17:58
  kid who's doing like 7 events, they're all awesome, but they
• 18:00
  can only enter maybe four or five events at the state meet,
• 18:03
  so they decide they're not going to do the high hurdles.
• 18:05
  Well, if I'm 19, I now got bumped into 18th or I guess 24.
• 18:09
  If I was 25, I got bumped into 24.
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  In that event then I can go so it's the top 18 or 15 or 24
• 18:15
  declared entries into the state meet.
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  You've got it all right now we're at the state meet.
• 18:21
  Talk to us about this. Is this meet typically at the
• 18:24
  same venue every year? Is our traditional place.
• 18:26
  Is it at a college, high school? How many days meet is it?
• 18:29
  Tell us about the actual state meet.
• 18:30
  The, the, the, the state meet. The state meet, so the state
• 18:34
  championship. That is held at Brown
• 18:37
  University. Historically 2 of the last four
• 18:40
  years we've had to make an adjustment.
• 18:42
  One year was because of the COVID pandemic.
• 18:45
  The Ivy League was not keen on us hosting this giant event on
• 18:50
  one of their facilities, so we moved it to Mount Pleasant High
• 18:53
  School. Mount Pleasant has a stadium
• 18:56
  that is a shared space for a few schools in Providence, and so
• 19:00
  they had recently redone the track and it seemed to be a good
• 19:03
  central venue with a lot of parking and.
• 19:05
  I was going to be able to work to host a state meet, so we did
• 19:08
  that for one year and then we had to do it again last year
• 19:11
  because Brown was resurfacing their facility.
• 19:14
  So the goal as of this moment is to return to Brown University
• 19:19
  and typically a one day meet, two day meet.
• 19:22
  It's a one day meet. It's a one day meet and for
• 19:26
  those of you at home who are interested in this kind of
• 19:28
  thing, it's a four event limit rule so you can do any four
• 19:33
  events you want. I know that if you were in a 2
• 19:36
  day state meet scenario, maybe that looks different for you and
• 19:39
  maybe that makes more sense or less sense.
• 19:40
  But for us it's a one day affair for events, Max.
• 19:44
  Now we know track and field is the most inclusive sport.
• 19:48
  Tall, short, big, small, doesn't matter.
• 19:50
  There's some event for you to achieve some success in track
• 19:53
  and field. What makes it really truly
• 19:55
  great? To be honest with you, we're
• 19:56
  learning in a lot of states that we are adding or doing some type
• 20:00
  of adaptive or unified or wheelchair events, anything like
• 20:04
  that going on in Rhode Island right now.
• 20:07
  No, not currently. At the moment there there is a
• 20:09
  strong culture of unified sports that's starting to to take here.
• 20:13
  Volleyball and basketball are very popular, but it hasn't
• 20:16
  reached track and field yet, at least not in that form or
• 20:18
  fashion. Yet is the word I like that.
• 20:21
  OK. Typically my next question is,
• 20:23
  is there a meet up champs but? Your state meet is the meet of
• 20:26
  champs. So you have these three classes
• 20:28
  and we go straight into a single class system, if you will, to
• 20:32
  the actual state meet. Yes, yes.
• 20:35
  Again, you ask anyone and you say, hey, what's your state
• 20:37
  championship? They'll give you that date.
• 20:39
  That's the day, Not the class AB or C, the state meet.
• 20:42
  I got it. Love it.
• 20:43
  All right, let's go through some events.
• 20:44
  Let's see what you're doing there.
• 20:45
  We can assume you're doing the 1-2, the four and the eight in
• 20:49
  the next two events. Are you doing the 1632, The mile
• 20:52
  two mile? The fifteen 3000.
• 20:54
  What are we doing? That that realm in Rhode Island
• 20:57
  we are, we're very progressive, enjoyed the global community.
• 20:59
  We're doing 1500 and 3K. Hey, that's not everybody's
• 21:03
  doing that. That's that's a rare 1632 is so
• 21:05
  far the most common for sure. So the fifteen 3000 for boys and
• 21:09
  girls, yes. Very cool.
• 21:11
  We're doing the 110 high hurdles and the 100 hurdles for boys and
• 21:14
  girls. Yes, we're doing the 300 hurdles
• 21:17
  for boys and girls, correct. 300, right?
• 21:21
  We know you're doing the four by one and four by four, because if
• 21:23
  you weren't doing those two events, you would need to be on
• 21:25
  this podcast that's track and field right there, 4x4.
• 21:28
  What other relays might you be doing?
• 21:30
  Somewhat recently we added. I'm not, I guess I'm starting to
• 21:33
  date myself here. About 20 years ago we added the
• 21:35
  four by 8 and that's been a real exciting event for us.
• 21:39
  I think every state should have it.
• 21:41
  It's definitely the majority. And a lot of, I should say a
• 21:45
  lot. 5:00-ish to six states seem to have added it in the last
• 21:47
  two, 3-4 years. But not every state, which I
• 21:50
  would have. That surprised me too.
• 21:52
  I thought every state had the four by eight.
• 21:54
  So you're doing 4 by 1, 4x4, 4 by 8.
• 21:56
  No other Sprint Medleys 4 by two shuttle hurdles.
• 21:59
  Just those 3 relays. Those are the only three at the
• 22:02
  state meet. Perfect.
• 22:03
  All right, let's go to the field events.
• 22:04
  We're doing long jump and triple jump for boys and girls.
• 22:06
  Yes, we're doing the shot put and discus for boys and girls,
• 22:10
  Correct. We're doing the pole ball and
• 22:11
  high jump for boys and girls, yes.
• 22:13
  Anything Javelin, Hammer multis, anything like that?
• 22:17
  Javelin for sure. And then we are, I believe, if
• 22:22
  not the only one of the very few states that has the hammer as a
• 22:24
  state meet scoring event. That makes Rhode Island
• 22:29
  extremely, extremely unique, at least up to today in the Rs.
• 22:33
  No other state has it officially as a state.
• 22:35
  Like 10 points goes to the winner, towards the team title,
• 22:38
  things like that. How long do you know much about?
• 22:41
  The Hammer. Like how long has it been an
• 22:43
  event in Rhode Island? Why Rd.
• 22:45
  I love it. This is not question for
• 22:47
  questioning sake. It's so awesome to hear this.
• 22:50
  I want more states that have this.
• 22:51
  What is that as far as, you know, maybe the history of
• 22:54
  Hammer in Rhode Island? I I wish I had the background
• 22:59
  that some of our our Hammer coaches have that they could
• 23:00
  probably give you a better story for this.
• 23:01
  But it's been around as long as I can tell you.
• 23:04
  I I remember when I was at Hendrick and I was doing a a
• 23:07
  project with one of our other coaches looking through the
• 23:09
  archives and you would see these these dated pictures like all
• 23:13
  the way back to 1970 of people throwing the hammer.
• 23:16
  There's just there's a strong culture of in Rhode Island, like
• 23:19
  most things around here, it probably traces back to one guy
• 23:22
  who wanted to do it and everyone just kind of, you know, globbed
• 23:25
  onto it and we don't really know why it's still happening.
• 23:28
  Yeah, that's that's kind of the way things happen around here in
• 23:30
  the state. So do you have it, like you
• 23:33
  mentioned, these seven qualifying state Qualifying
• 23:36
  series meets and things like that?
• 23:37
  Is there a hammer cage like at every high school or is it like,
• 23:41
  oh, everybody goes to. You mentioned you used to be at
• 23:43
  Bishop Henrickson and I remember when I looked on the track and
• 23:45
  field news descending order list, that's where every, you
• 23:48
  know, Warwick RI is where like every kid that threw the hammer
• 23:51
  came from in high school. Does every high school have a
• 23:53
  hammer cage or just like there's like one or two and that's where
• 23:56
  everybody goes to do their hammer meets?
• 23:59
  It's it's most but it gets real shifty in some places as I'm
• 24:04
  sure you can imagine with the hammer.
• 24:06
  I'm not going to name the place but there's a school that that
• 24:08
  recently redid their complex and all the coaches are like Yep had
• 24:12
  a hammer land in the parking lot the other day.
• 24:15
  Yeah, it's it's tough. We we just carved out a new
• 24:17
  space here at LaSalle for and it's it's going to be close,
• 24:20
  it's going to be right up against the woods sometimes.
• 24:23
  Most most places have a hammer cage and we get very creative
• 24:27
  when it comes to scheduling dual meets for example our divisions
• 24:31
  which is how we organize for our league schedule.
• 24:33
  Division is based on geography in our state.
• 24:35
  So we have an Eastern division and Northern division.
• 24:38
  Those divisions are really based around which places have
• 24:41
  facilities that can host a full meet.
• 24:44
  So I would say most schools, but definitely not all.
• 24:47
  And you know some schools don't have good pole vault facilities.
• 24:53
  All it varies from from place to place.
• 24:55
  That's a great point. I just love that.
• 24:57
  If there's other states out there that either have or want
• 25:00
  to have a strong hammer culture and the number one excuses
• 25:04
  always well, the cage and things like that, It's like, hey man,
• 25:07
  Rhode Island figured it out. Let's go pick Rhode Island
• 25:10
  coaches brains, how do they figure it out?
• 25:12
  We should be able to figure it out in some other states.
• 25:14
  So I love that you guys are doing that.
• 25:16
  Now after the state meet, some states will do an unofficial
• 25:20
  state meet. Typically it's a chavelin or a
• 25:21
  hammer. There are a few states that do
• 25:23
  an unofficial hammer state meet but maybe are you doing some
• 25:26
  kind of like maybe multi unofficial state meet or
• 25:28
  anything like that. There's there's nothing like
• 25:31
  that right now. I'd love for us to add that like
• 25:33
  a decathlon event after the state meet.
• 25:36
  But the The thing is for for us, a lot of coaches turn their
• 25:39
  attention to the New England championship at state meet that
• 25:43
  that becomes kind of like the next big meet to get up for.
• 25:46
  And then you have kids who are moving on to nationals, So there
• 25:48
  really isn't extra space in the schedule to add fun stuff like
• 25:52
  that. The one thing that we do have
• 25:54
  that's pretty unique is Rhode Island will then host the hammer
• 25:58
  New England's. So if you were from a New
• 26:00
  England state and you want to come and throw the hammer in a
• 26:01
  championship meet, we will host a meet for you.
• 26:05
  It's actually, it's not totally unheard of for some kids from
• 26:08
  like Southern Mass, for example, to come down into Rhode Island
• 26:10
  for some of our meats to throw the hammer.
• 26:13
  Yeah, it we're learning with these New England states.
• 26:15
  This New England championships is a it's a big that's the
• 26:18
  culture that is that is a meet that is on everybody's schedule,
• 26:21
  just like the state meet is on everybody's schedule.
• 26:24
  That's a really interesting uniqueness up there in New
• 26:26
  England. We don't have like the the West
• 26:28
  Coast States Championships. This New England thing is very
• 26:31
  unique, very cool. Now it's the real deal.
• 26:33
  We used to team score it Once Upon a time.
• 26:35
  We don't have a team score for it anymore.
• 26:37
  But yeah, like and and with with so many national championship
• 26:41
  meets now gaining more prominence, the New Englands
• 26:44
  have started to lose a little bit of its excitement.
• 26:47
  Not as many people are opting for it, but in certain events it
• 26:51
  is the show. Like people love to go and
• 26:53
  compete at the New Englands. Cool.
• 26:55
  Hey James, before we get to a couple of fun questions, what
• 26:58
  might we have missed? What else is there unique on
• 27:00
  Rhode Island? Maybe you double score your
• 27:03
  relay points. You only score 6 places in the
• 27:06
  finals of the 100. I don't know anything else that
• 27:08
  we should know about Rhode Island.
• 27:12
  I don't want to take too much of your time here, Mike.
• 27:13
  There's plenty, but let's let's do just a couple quick hits.
• 27:18
  Please Rhode Island just moved to scoring 8 places.
• 27:22
  We actually used to score only 6, trying to give more kids an
• 27:25
  opportunity to score points, trying to give more teams an
• 27:27
  opportunity to to get on the scoreboard.
• 27:30
  So that that change just happened last year.
• 27:32
  We now score 8. The thing that I think is the
• 27:34
  best thing about our state because of our size and because
• 27:37
  of our numbers, we also as a coaches association are able to
• 27:41
  host a full state championship just for freshmen and we also do
• 27:46
  it for junior varsity as well. But let me start with explaining
• 27:49
  the freshman meet. If you are a 9th grader in the
• 27:53
  state of Rhode Island, your coach can enter you into this
• 27:55
  meet. There's no standards.
• 27:57
  There's no certain limits on on entries.
• 28:00
  You don't have to qualify. It's just on one day we host A
• 28:06
  and state championship and every freshman gets that championship
• 28:09
  experience, that championship level style of meet and we also
• 28:14
  we team score it. So we we have a team freshman
• 28:17
  title and we do that for outdoor track, but also for indoor and
• 28:20
  cross country. It's one of the most exciting
• 28:24
  meets of the year and it's always very cool to see how kids
• 28:26
  will progress. You know, if they were a
• 28:28
  freshman state champion, what does that mean for three years
• 28:30
  from now? You get a look at which teams
• 28:33
  are really going to be in it for a state title in a couple of
• 28:35
  years because they got this great freshman group that's
• 28:37
  going to be coming through. And it's it's a carrot to dangle
• 28:40
  for kids. Like some kids get, they get
• 28:43
  lost in the shuffle and track and field if they're not
• 28:46
  cracking a lineup, if they're not qualifying for big meets.
• 28:49
  But if I've got a kid who I think can help me at a freshman
• 28:51
  state championship, you know, like a, you know, a freshman
• 28:55
  girl who runs 70 seconds might not be on everyone's radar.
• 28:58
  But suddenly I'm saying, well, you know, I'm going to need a
• 29:01
  fourth leg for my freshman state championship relay.
• 29:03
  And that kids going to go home with a medal.
• 29:05
  And now that kids hooked that, you know, one person gave them a
• 29:08
  ribbon or a medal and now they want to do it forever.
• 29:10
  So we really are are able to keep kids excited about the
• 29:13
  sport a little bit longer and a little bit more dialed into it
• 29:16
  later in the season than maybe other places can.
• 29:19
  Let's make sure we say that again 'cause that is super
• 29:21
  unique. We've not heard anything
• 29:22
  remotely close to this. So you obviously do a varsity
• 29:26
  state championship. That's the one we're talking
• 29:28
  about. That's where we have the step,
• 29:30
  the qualifying series, top 18, etcetera.
• 29:32
  We, we just talked about that. That's varsity.
• 29:34
  That seems that's they rigor. We know this one, right?
• 29:37
  But you also host. A freshman only and AJV state
• 29:43
  meet, meaning A-Team title plus the individual titles, etcetera.
• 29:47
  Yes, yes. So the the junior varsity meet,
• 29:51
  that's just any athlete who does not make it into the varsity
• 29:55
  state meet. OK.
• 29:55
  I was going to ask what, how do you designate what JV is?
• 29:58
  Right? Yeah, OK.
• 29:58
  Yeah. So it's open to freshmen.
• 30:00
  So there are some kids who will compete in the freshman meet and
• 30:02
  then we'll go on and compete in the junior varsity state meet as
• 30:05
  well. Another awesome event.
• 30:09
  I know for you know some people it's like, well, why would you
• 30:12
  have that? But again, keeping kids excited
• 30:15
  for the sport for as long as possible.
• 30:17
  So maybe I, again, I have a kid who is and you take that same
• 30:21
  72nd, you know, 400 runner. She's not going to make it to
• 30:24
  the varsity state meet as a sophomore necessarily.
• 30:27
  But I can at least give her another meet that she's
• 30:29
  contributing to a team score in that we're trying to put
• 30:32
  together a relay in that maybe can score points and leave with
• 30:35
  a medal. It just it just becomes another
• 30:38
  way to get kids excited. And I and I know there's going
• 30:41
  to be listeners who are saying like, oh, we're, you know, we're
• 30:43
  celebrating the junior varsity kids too.
• 30:44
  Everyone gets a championship and it's well, well, yes, yes, like
• 30:48
  anything to keep kids excited for longer because you never
• 30:50
  know what that athlete's going to do in another year or two.
• 30:54
  Maybe finally after their sophomore year, they they pop.
• 30:57
  And now that kids helping you out at the varsity as a junior,
• 31:00
  I've seen plenty of kids who would just fade away from the
• 31:03
  sport because they had nothing really to get excited about
• 31:05
  beyond coming to practice every day.
• 31:07
  And you can be as good a coach as you want, but that may may
• 31:11
  have its limits at some point. I definitely changed my mind
• 31:14
  about the Everybody Gets a Ribbon thing when we had Willie
• 31:17
  Banks on the podcast The Great Triple Jumper World Record
• 31:20
  Holder and he shared his story of how he got a ribbon at some
• 31:24
  summer meet for getting 15th place or something like that.
• 31:27
  And it showed him that Oh my gosh like I'm worthy like I I'm
• 31:31
  good at something and so therefore he kept jumping and
• 31:33
  you know it goes on and sets the world record.
• 31:36
  I changed my mind a little bit about the is it really
• 31:39
  detrimental type of thing you know I I don't know that's
• 31:41
  that's that's really cool. I love that.
• 31:43
  You know it's amazing here we're we're talking about America's
• 31:46
  smallest by landmass state. How progressive you guys you
• 31:51
  coaches are in Rhode Island that javelin the hammer freshman
• 31:56
  state meet. That's that's crazy.
• 31:58
  This is awesome, man. This is really, really cool.
• 32:01
  It's a really cool place to coach and it gives you a lot of,
• 32:04
  a lot of chances to get kids excited about the sport.
• 32:07
  And you know, that's that's a credit to the coaches
• 32:10
  association. I've only been in my director
• 32:12
  position for. This is my third year, but the
• 32:15
  people that came before me, who? Who ran our organization?
• 32:19
  They hammered the idea of these meets that they were important,
• 32:22
  that they had value, that this is how our state was going to
• 32:25
  stay ahead of the curve and relevant and keep kids
• 32:28
  competing. Anything else we should know
• 32:30
  before we move to a couple of fun questions?
• 32:33
  No, I I think, I think anything else would just be real deep
• 32:36
  dive Rhode Island and I think we've done more than enough.
• 32:39
  Well, we've certainly opened people's eyes to uniquenesses
• 32:42
  and awesomeness there in Rhode Island.
• 32:44
  So let's have a little bit of fun here.
• 32:45
  James, help us settle a debate, at least on your bus rides to
• 32:49
  track meets. How do we say this the state
• 32:51
  meet that we have there, Are we qualifying for state?
• 32:53
  We qualifying for states? Are we qualifying for the state
• 32:56
  meet? How do how do we say it help us
• 32:58
  settle this debate? Well, there's only one state
• 33:01
  meet, so we're going to say qualified for the state meet.
• 33:04
  I'm not a fan of, I'm not a fan of qualified for states that's
• 33:07
  or or even qualified for state. Qualified for state sounds like
• 33:10
  a football player. Saying I, I don't know.
• 33:12
  It just seems weird for to me, but maybe that's my own bias.
• 33:14
  So we're calling at least in your, like I said, your your bus
• 33:17
  ride. We are saying, hey, we're
• 33:18
  heading to the state meet. You qualify for the state meet
• 33:21
  today. Great.
• 33:22
  Job for stars. Love it.
• 33:23
  Love it. Love it, love it.
• 33:23
  All right, man, you've been awesome.
• 33:25
  James done a great job and you know really helped us take a
• 33:27
  deep dive, a really relevant deep dive into the state.
• 33:30
  This is one of the very many reasons we started this series
• 33:34
  is to go from all 51 championships, including UDC to
• 33:39
  see the uniquenesses out there. So man, bravo.
• 33:41
  Thank you so much. It's been awesome to give you a
• 33:44
  a prize. You win the the, the magic wand.
• 33:47
  If you could change one thing and.
• 33:49
  And only one thing, please. In Rhode Island outdoor state
• 33:53
  track and field. Something that you think might
• 33:55
  make it better could be adding. I don't know what event you
• 33:57
  would add. If you would add an event.
• 33:59
  Maybe you'd want to subtract the event.
• 34:00
  You're. I don't know, don't want to
• 34:01
  you're distance runner. I don't want to put the whole
• 34:03
  throwers versus didn't. Maybe you want to take away the
• 34:05
  hammer. Let's hope that's not the
• 34:06
  statement will cut this podcast off so short if that's his magic
• 34:09
  wand. But if you could change one
• 34:10
  thing, James, for the better, what might that be?
• 34:13
  My my friends would tell you it's that I want to add the
• 34:15
  shuttle hurdle, but that's because I'm a hurdle guy.
• 34:17
  That's that's. But that's crazy talk.
• 34:18
  Oh bro, hey, no, no, hold on. I am with you 1000% 'cause that
• 34:22
  is the best event there is. And there is a state.
• 34:26
  If you've been listening, you already know 'cause it's before
• 34:28
  the Rs. There is a state that has it as
• 34:30
  an official state meet event. So that ain't as crazy as you
• 34:33
  think. And I Co sign that idea.
• 34:35
  What's your other one? My other one?
• 34:38
  So it used to be in Rhode Island, the rule was you were
• 34:43
  only allowed three events at the state meet and currently we
• 34:46
  expanded to allowing 4 events for an athlete.
• 34:49
  I think I my preference was three.
• 34:52
  I just, I can see it going wrong for too many kids with a coach
• 34:54
  who's maybe inexperienced and trying to run a kid through four
• 34:57
  events. And it does allow for teams that
• 35:00
  are much, much smaller and I I understand why they do it.
• 35:04
  I would do it if I were them too.
• 35:06
  But it allows for one or two kids to haul up to A state
• 35:09
  championship and win the team title and and I I do find those
• 35:13
  stories entertaining. I know Ohio just had this happen
• 35:15
  with one young lady who won a state title by herself.
• 35:18
  Sports Illustrated did one about a girl from Texas years ago.
• 35:20
  But for me I always think that that team title should really be
• 35:23
  a whole team effort that pulls towards winning A state
• 35:27
  championship. So I kind of liked when it was 3
• 35:29
  events for each kid and it just meant more kids got into the
• 35:32
  state need too. And and you said remind me this
• 35:35
  the state meet there in Rhode Island, it's a one day meet,
• 35:37
  right? It's a one day.
• 35:39
  Meet Yeah that that that that changes a lot of things when you
• 35:41
  go 2 day to one day on how many events per per kid for for sure
• 35:45
  you know a three day A2 day meet at a three or four event that
• 35:48
  that's fairly doable that's well it's done quote UN quote every
• 35:51
  day you know in high school track and field but one day
• 35:53
  meets man that can get real tough.
• 35:55
  Absolutely that's a great use of your magic wand.
• 35:57
  Although I still I know you said you didn't say it, you didn't
• 36:01
  officially say I think the Shuttle Horror Relay.
• 36:03
  In fact, I'm a little surprised Rhode Island doesn't have it
• 36:06
  with all this other cool unique stuff.
• 36:08
  I'm just, you know, a little disappointed on you guys that
• 36:10
  you don't have this effect there in Rhode Island.
• 36:13
  I'm going to use this podcast for future discussions.
• 36:15
  It's you and me on an island, Mike.
• 36:17
  Nobody else wants it. Hey baby, that's an island.
• 36:19
  I will be on every day with you. My friend James.
• 36:23
  Thank you so much, man. This has been.
• 36:25
  Yeah, I mean awesome. Every state is so unique.
• 36:28
  And so I love getting here to Rhode Island where there were a
• 36:31
  lot of assumptions because of smalls like, oh, OK, it's going
• 36:33
  to be pretty straightforward here, not a lot of uniquenesses,
• 36:35
  yadda yadda. And man, this might be one of
• 36:37
  the more unique states that we have there.
• 36:39
  So shout out to the Rhode Island track and field coaches.
• 36:42
  You guys are doing an amazing job.
• 36:43
  And James, you did awesome today.
• 36:45
  Thank you so much for representing this great state
• 36:47
  today. Awesome.
• 36:48
  Thanks for having me.