Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #136 Jason Flom with Steven Carrington

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#136 Jason Flom with Steven Carrington · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: It was a new year, nineteen ninety five, and Stephen
0:05
Speaker 1: Carrington was a young man with a short criminal history
0:08
Speaker 1: who had just gotten out of prison. He had recently
0:10
Speaker 1: gotten married. The young father was training to be an emt.
0:15
Speaker 1: After having paid his debt to society, his life was
0:18
Speaker 1: getting back on track. On the morning of January second,
0:21
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, Stephen's brother Mark stood outside of a
0:24
Speaker 1: lumberyard in Brooklyn as Shannon France and another man arrived.
0:29
Speaker 1: Mister France pulled the twenty five, announcing his stick up
0:31
Speaker 1: as the other man Rob's customer, Hugh Keys. The store clerk,
0:35
Speaker 1: tries to grab mister France's weapon and was shot. Mister
0:39
Speaker 1: Franz loots the strong box and the two men fled,
0:42
Speaker 1: leaving mister Keyes alive. A confidential informant would tell the
0:46
Speaker 1: lead investigator, Detective Calabreeze, the names of three men who
0:49
Speaker 1: were seen by the lumberyard at the time of the crime,
0:52
Speaker 1: Shannon France, Eddie West, and Mark Carrington. However, when he
0:58
Speaker 1: searched for Mark Carrington, Stephen popped up at the same
1:01
Speaker 1: address and with his criminal record, Calabrigi added his photo
1:05
Speaker 1: into an array. Hugh Keys gave a shaky identification. In
1:09
Speaker 1: the absence of any physical evidence whatsoever connecting him to
1:12
Speaker 1: the crime, Stephan went to trial right next to the
1:15
Speaker 1: trigger man, Shannon France. The Carringtons hired a lawyer to
1:19
Speaker 1: protect both of their sons, but it turned out to
1:21
Speaker 1: be to the detriment of one of them. Mark was
1:24
Speaker 1: never called to testify a trial, and twenty years later,
1:28
Speaker 1: finally free, Stephan Carrington is out on parole, but still
1:32
Speaker 1: fighting to clear his name of a crime that he
1:35
Speaker 1: simply didn't commit. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.
1:52
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flumm. That's me.
1:56
Speaker 1: I'm your host, and today we have a story an
2:00
Speaker 1: outcome that we're going to hope that who knows, maybe
2:04
Speaker 1: somebody out there can be helpful with because we are
2:06
Speaker 1: fighting to prove the innocence of the man who's sitting
2:09
Speaker 1: right in front of me now, Stephan Carrington. Stepan, as
2:12
Speaker 1: I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy
2:15
Speaker 1: you're here.
2:15
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here having
2:18
Speaker 2: an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear
2:22
Speaker 2: my name.
2:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we're here for. Let's go back to
2:24
Speaker 1: that original Faithful Day, January second, nineteen ninety five. What
2:30
Speaker 1: happened that day in the lumber store.
2:32
Speaker 2: Basically, all my knowledge of this saga story that took
2:37
Speaker 2: place I learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from
2:42
Speaker 2: people in the street, and things of that nature, because
2:45
Speaker 2: you know, I wasn't dead when it took place. On
2:47
Speaker 2: that day, they said that two individuals into the lumber
2:51
Speaker 2: yard at a parent robbery which resulted to a homicide.
2:55
Speaker 2: One of the employee at the lumber yard try to
2:59
Speaker 2: take a weapon from this individual and subsequently this guy
3:02
Speaker 2: shot him twice and ultimately he died. Eventually he died.
3:08
Speaker 2: The two individuals fled the scene. My brother was the
3:13
Speaker 2: lookout and subsequently the person that is my co defendant, Shannon,
3:20
Speaker 2: his girlfriend best friend, is the one that gave his name,
3:24
Speaker 2: photos and everything to the police. There's a third individual
3:28
Speaker 2: who name was Eddie Wes. And I have to say
3:31
Speaker 2: that neither my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed,
3:37
Speaker 2: questioned sought after by the police department.
3:41
Speaker 1: So Eddie West was the other guy in the store.
3:44
Speaker 2: Now, Eddie West was one of the individuals that they
3:46
Speaker 2: mentioned that was out on the corner during the time
3:49
Speaker 2: the robbery was committed.
3:51
Speaker 1: Okay, Shannon Franz, though, was he had some involvement in
3:54
Speaker 1: the crime? Is that right?
3:56
Speaker 2: They found his fingerprints on the cash box inside the lumberyard.
4:00
Speaker 1: That's not a good science. No, they didn't find yours.
4:03
Speaker 2: No, they have no physical evidence or anything linking me
4:07
Speaker 2: to the crime, besides having a sibling who was mentioned
4:11
Speaker 2: to be outside with the individuals who was involved.
4:16
Speaker 1: So these guys go, they robbed the lumberyard, and they
4:20
Speaker 1: shot a clerk named Lloyd Campbell. Yes, both in the
4:25
Speaker 1: head and in the back.
4:26
Speaker 2: Yes.
4:27
Speaker 1: And then they found the strong box, they looted it.
4:31
Speaker 1: The two guys fled the scene. Your brother was either
4:34
Speaker 1: there or not as a lookout whatever he was doing.
4:37
Speaker 1: He was apparently not in the store, that is correct.
4:41
Speaker 1: So how did your name come to be associated because
4:46
Speaker 1: it's sort of a leap to say, Okay, well they
4:49
Speaker 1: got your brother, now they're going to just go after you.
4:52
Speaker 2: Well, I could just tell you from the police reports.
4:55
Speaker 2: The officers during the investigation when they received these names
4:59
Speaker 2: and photos of these individuals. There was an address on
5:03
Speaker 2: the photo, which was a promotional photo at the time.
5:07
Speaker 2: I had a recording studio, and we used to you know,
5:10
Speaker 2: wrench studio time out to individuals. One of the group, Shannon,
5:14
Speaker 2: my co defendant. He was an individual who was in
5:16
Speaker 2: the rap group which my brother was affiliated with a
5:19
Speaker 2: part of, and they had promotional photos up and down
5:24
Speaker 2: the avenue, the same avenue that these guys went and
5:28
Speaker 2: committed this crime on. It so happened that they committed
5:33
Speaker 2: a crime across the street from his girlfriend's business, and
5:37
Speaker 2: his girlfriend best friend is the one that saw him
5:39
Speaker 2: out there and eventually gave his name in the photos
5:42
Speaker 2: to the police, to the detective Calabrise. When Calabrese was
5:46
Speaker 2: doing his investigation, all he did was run the address
5:51
Speaker 2: through the police system and my name came back because
5:55
Speaker 2: I was parole to that address. So when they discovered
6:01
Speaker 2: that I was on parole, the whole case shifted to me.
6:07
Speaker 2: Detective Calibres is quoted as saying that he had a
6:11
Speaker 2: gut feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched
6:14
Speaker 2: the description my brother was involved. He felt that if
6:18
Speaker 2: I wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because
6:21
Speaker 2: I had a prior and I was on parole, they
6:24
Speaker 2: came for me.
6:24
Speaker 1: But you matched the description of the actual shooter, no
6:29
Speaker 1: or the lookout No, whose description did you match?
6:33
Speaker 2: He said, I matched the individual who robbed another patron
6:37
Speaker 2: of this lumber yard, mister yu Keys. I didn't know
6:40
Speaker 2: what he was talking about. In my mind, I believe
6:43
Speaker 2: that eventually whatever they were trying to do with, you know,
6:47
Speaker 2: resolve itself. Because I didn't have I had nothing to
6:50
Speaker 2: do with any crime. This situation, you know, had me
6:53
Speaker 2: think about this one phrase, you know, and it always
6:56
Speaker 2: stuck with me that you you never get a second
6:59
Speaker 2: chance to make a first impression. And because of my
7:04
Speaker 2: past is why I'm here today now. I'm not a
7:07
Speaker 2: goodie two shoe. I wasn't and that is only because
7:13
Speaker 2: I try to fit in with individuals I wanted, you know,
7:15
Speaker 2: to be down. I brought up. My father's a pastor.
7:18
Speaker 2: I brought up in church. I went to church majority
7:20
Speaker 2: of my life, and I wouldn't lie, you know, I
7:24
Speaker 2: hated church. I was forced to go every day. I
7:30
Speaker 2: wouldn't say a worse experience, but just not to do
7:32
Speaker 2: what normal kids do was kind of tough for me
7:35
Speaker 2: because I was a free spreader. I like, so when
7:38
Speaker 2: I was like seventeen, I try to move out and
7:43
Speaker 2: so I started selling drugs with my best friend and
7:47
Speaker 2: that's how I got into the life of criminality and
7:49
Speaker 2: things of that nature. And subsequently I did get rested
7:53
Speaker 2: for drug seale robbery and I went to Rackets Island
7:59
Speaker 2: and I had a traumatic experience. I got jumped, got stabbed,
8:04
Speaker 2: got robbed, and as time went on, I knew that
8:11
Speaker 2: this wasn't for me. Prison wasn't something that I wanted
8:17
Speaker 2: to do. It wasn't a lifestyle that I wanted to live.
8:21
Speaker 2: And if you know, selling drugs all these other stuff
8:24
Speaker 2: was going to lead me to prison, then I had
8:27
Speaker 2: to do away with that, and not just those activities,
8:30
Speaker 2: but also the people that I used to associate with,
8:33
Speaker 2: and that's what I did.
8:34
Speaker 1: You were really putting your life on track at this time,
8:37
Speaker 1: which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You
8:40
Speaker 1: had gone through some training to be an EMT right, Yes,
8:44
Speaker 1: that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married,
8:49
Speaker 1: recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in
8:51
Speaker 1: front of you.
8:53
Speaker 2: I had changed my life. I'd cut off all my friends.
8:56
Speaker 2: You know, I had a new born, my daughter. She
8:58
Speaker 2: was only seven months when they took me from home.
9:01
Speaker 1: It's sickening. I mean, and let's set the record straight
9:04
Speaker 1: by talking about your alibi, which is a bit of
9:06
Speaker 1: a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a married man,
9:08
Speaker 1: but your alibi involves another woman, right.
9:12
Speaker 2: Sad to saying, Unfortunately, the day that they accused me
9:15
Speaker 2: of committing this crime, I was in the hospital with
9:18
Speaker 2: my wife, and I was also with another female friend
9:20
Speaker 2: before I was in the hospital with my wife.
9:23
Speaker 1: Right, like you said earlier, you had a recording studio
9:26
Speaker 1: set up in your parents' basement. A young lady came
9:28
Speaker 1: to visit you there and spent the night. Now, unbeknownst
9:32
Speaker 1: to you, your daughter had developed an ear infection. I
9:35
Speaker 1: was taken to the hospital that morning. Now there's no
9:38
Speaker 1: cell phones back then. Your wife was calling around looking
9:42
Speaker 1: for you, and she gets a hold of your mother,
9:44
Speaker 1: who walks the phone to you. Downstairs. You spoke with
9:48
Speaker 1: your wife, assured her that you were at your way,
9:51
Speaker 1: and then you shower and get the hell out of there.
9:54
Speaker 2: When I got there, you know, basically, my wife is
9:58
Speaker 2: just like, hey, she's ry responsibility. Now I had all
10:02
Speaker 2: and so you know, I did everything until the doctors
10:05
Speaker 2: wanted to come in. She had an ear affection, so
10:07
Speaker 2: they wanted to do an X ray. Now, this is
10:10
Speaker 2: one of the things that baffled me even to today
10:12
Speaker 2: with all the technology and stuff that they have, my
10:16
Speaker 2: hands got captured in this X ray. When people read
10:19
Speaker 2: this case, really sit down and read this case, they wonder,
10:21
Speaker 2: how did you get convicted?
10:23
Speaker 1: You had a solid alibi.
10:25
Speaker 2: I trial. One person testified against me, and I had
10:28
Speaker 2: four or five alibi witnesses that testified. The one person
10:33
Speaker 2: that testified against me mister yu Keys, And I feel
10:38
Speaker 2: for him because I know that he's been duped because
10:41
Speaker 2: he told the nine one one operator when he called
10:43
Speaker 2: them during the day, that the crime was committed, about
10:47
Speaker 2: being robbed, about the individual being shot, or what have you.
10:51
Speaker 2: And when they asked him to give a description of
10:53
Speaker 2: the individual, he told him that he couldn't. He said
10:58
Speaker 2: he never looked at the individual, that he never looked
11:01
Speaker 2: at the person that robbed him. Wow, because he was
11:05
Speaker 2: afraid too, because he seeing what happened to the guy
11:09
Speaker 2: that got shot, He was afraid for his life. He
11:12
Speaker 2: also told that to the first police that came on
11:15
Speaker 2: the scene. But yet here it is Detective Calabris is
11:18
Speaker 2: saying that this individual picked my picture up and said
11:21
Speaker 2: this is the guy that robbed me. The district attorney
11:24
Speaker 2: is saying that the witness didn't say that the witness
11:27
Speaker 2: said that I looked like the individual that robbed them,
11:30
Speaker 2: But in all the police reports it's saying that the
11:33
Speaker 2: witness said that I'm the guy that robbed them. But
11:36
Speaker 2: in court, the district attorney is saying that the witness
11:39
Speaker 2: said that I looked like the guy that robbed them,
11:42
Speaker 2: and if he sent me in person, he would be
11:44
Speaker 2: able to identify me. But here's the catch. The witness
11:48
Speaker 2: get on the stand and said that he never made
11:50
Speaker 2: no identification of me prior to my arrest. So how
11:56
Speaker 2: did I become a suspect?
11:58
Speaker 1: Right? Which one is it?
12:00
Speaker 2: Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now, who should
12:05
Speaker 2: you believe the detective who was saying that he positively
12:09
Speaker 2: identified me as the person that robbed them, The district
12:12
Speaker 2: attorney who was saying that the witness said I looked
12:15
Speaker 2: like the individual, but he will be able to identify
12:18
Speaker 2: me if he see me in person. Or the witness
12:21
Speaker 2: who said that he never made no identification when the
12:24
Speaker 2: police came to his house on numerous occasions. Who should
12:27
Speaker 2: we believe this guy? He didn't know me. The only
12:32
Speaker 2: thing that he knew, which he told the police, was
12:34
Speaker 2: that the guy was dark skinned and stocky.
12:37
Speaker 1: That described half of your neighborhood.
12:39
Speaker 2: When they asked him, well, how tall is this guy?
12:41
Speaker 2: He don't know. Is he taller than you? I don't know.
12:44
Speaker 2: Is he shorter than you? I don't know. Did he
12:46
Speaker 2: have a bed, I don't know. Did he have a mustache?
12:48
Speaker 2: I don't know.
12:49
Speaker 1: For he didn't see him.
12:49
Speaker 2: What do you know? He was dark skinned and stocky.
12:53
Speaker 2: They showed him the tape, and on the tape, you
12:57
Speaker 2: can't make the features out of the individuals, do perpetrators.
13:01
Speaker 2: You can't really make facial features out of anybody on
13:05
Speaker 2: the tape. But the perpetrators had on hats and hoodies
13:10
Speaker 2: and three quarter length copes, and he stated that he
13:17
Speaker 2: couldn't see these individuals. He didn't know what the personal like.
13:20
Speaker 2: He don't know if they had a bed, mustache, anything.
13:24
Speaker 2: He was just dusking and stocky. So when you look
13:26
Speaker 2: at the tape, all you see is shapes and sizes.
13:32
Speaker 1: That's not enough.
13:33
Speaker 2: He couldn't even identify hisself on the tape. During trial,
13:38
Speaker 2: the disc attorney had to reference something of what he
13:42
Speaker 2: had on wait.
13:43
Speaker 1: Hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy that
13:47
Speaker 1: the guy couldn't identify himself.
13:50
Speaker 2: Yes, when the DiscT attorney asks him to point to
13:52
Speaker 2: hisself on the tape, he pointed to someone else.
13:55
Speaker 1: Wow.
13:56
Speaker 2: And then the disc attorney says something like this, is
14:00
Speaker 2: that you with the checkerboard shirt? Or who's in the
14:04
Speaker 2: checkerboard shirt or something of that effect. Right led him
14:08
Speaker 2: to basically say, oh, and then that's me standing right here.
14:12
Speaker 1: Okay, I've heard enough about that. Now we know that's
14:14
Speaker 1: completely unreliable and out. That should have been out the
14:16
Speaker 1: window right off the bat. One of the things that
14:19
Speaker 1: sticks with me is the idea that detective Calibreeds claimed
14:22
Speaker 1: that he could recognize you from a security tape because
14:25
Speaker 1: he could recognize your walk.
14:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. I believe that was the lynch pin. That's that
14:31
Speaker 2: sealed my fate, because he got understanding and he pointed
14:35
Speaker 2: me out in court and he said this is the guy,
14:38
Speaker 2: and they asked him how he knows and he says
14:40
Speaker 2: that he could tell that it was me because of
14:43
Speaker 2: how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator
14:45
Speaker 2: from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court.
14:48
Speaker 2: But yet, you know, I believe that that was the
14:52
Speaker 2: nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer.
14:56
Speaker 2: They have a tape, and people believe even when I
14:59
Speaker 2: was a appealing and I know that these judge never
15:02
Speaker 2: viewed the tape, but because of the language and the
15:04
Speaker 2: dialogue in the trial transcript, they even denied certain of
15:09
Speaker 2: my appeals because they saying you were clearly sin on
15:12
Speaker 2: the tape.
15:13
Speaker 1: The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of
15:17
Speaker 1: someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment for
15:20
Speaker 1: war impairment exactly that's what I was looking for, is preposterous.
15:23
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that they would even present that
15:25
Speaker 1: as evidence, it's ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences
15:29
Speaker 1: are not funny at all. They're very real. So there's
15:32
Speaker 1: there's that, and then there's the fact that you know,
15:35
Speaker 1: we know, we know what happened at the trial. That
15:37
Speaker 1: you know your brother was not allowed to testify. That
15:41
Speaker 1: is correct, because your lawyer didn't submit his name on
15:44
Speaker 1: the witness list.
15:44
Speaker 2: That is right.
15:45
Speaker 1: Had he been able to, we don't We will never
15:48
Speaker 1: know what he would have said in the moment. But
15:50
Speaker 1: there's a realistic chance that he might have said something
15:52
Speaker 1: that could have exonerated you.
15:53
Speaker 2: Well, at that time, my opinion and believe is that
15:58
Speaker 2: he wanted to come forward, and he did come to
16:01
Speaker 2: court to testify. And what I realized later is that
16:04
Speaker 2: my lawyer sent them home. When they started to question
16:07
Speaker 2: my parents about my brother and his whereabouts, they answered
16:12
Speaker 2: truthfully that he was here, came to court today to testify,
16:18
Speaker 2: and the district attorney stopped the proceeding and asked for
16:21
Speaker 2: a sidebar so they can discuss certain things which the
16:26
Speaker 2: sonographer records. And at this sidebar, the district attorney wanted
16:31
Speaker 2: to bring up my lawyer on charges for lyon about
16:35
Speaker 2: the whereabouts of my brother, because early that morning he
16:38
Speaker 2: said he don't know where my brother was. He never
16:41
Speaker 2: seen them, he never met him. And then it was
16:44
Speaker 2: discovered later the same day that my brother was at
16:48
Speaker 2: his office that morning and he sent them home.
16:50
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a big lie.
16:51
Speaker 2: And it's in the trial transcripts. I'm not making it up.
16:54
Speaker 1: And he didn't forget that he saw your brother that day.
16:57
Speaker 2: No, I mean, because it was right. It was early
16:59
Speaker 2: that morning and trial was on and my brother came
17:02
Speaker 2: to testify at that time, I believe the best. Now
17:08
Speaker 2: I understand why a person would be apprehensive for coming
17:11
Speaker 2: forward and trying to tell the truth about what really
17:14
Speaker 2: took place or who was involved on things of that nature.
17:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he's your little brother. You know, he
17:21
Speaker 1: must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I can't
17:24
Speaker 1: imagine being in his place. He's trying to save his
17:28
Speaker 1: own life. At the same time, you know, he's got
17:32
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you in
17:35
Speaker 1: this situation in the first place, because you talk about
17:38
Speaker 1: how you never would have been in the system if
17:39
Speaker 1: you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger.
17:42
Speaker 1: But you also would have never been in this situation
17:43
Speaker 1: if your brother hadn't have been involved in this thing
17:45
Speaker 1: in the first place.
17:46
Speaker 2: I think that I had set a bad president for
17:49
Speaker 2: my brother. I believe I was part of the influence. Now.
17:55
Speaker 2: I don't know if he looked up to me, but
17:57
Speaker 2: I believe that some of my actions are friends that
18:01
Speaker 2: I had that was around probably also roughed off on him. Unfortunately,
18:05
Speaker 2: I wasn't around for him when he started to engage
18:10
Speaker 2: in activities and pick certain people as friends that I
18:13
Speaker 2: could have probably said, you know, those are the guys
18:15
Speaker 2: you shouldn't thing, because what I try to do was
18:18
Speaker 2: distance myself from everyone that was in my neighborhood at
18:22
Speaker 2: that point in time when I started to clear my
18:25
Speaker 2: life up.
18:26
Speaker 1: I mean, you basically took the fall for your brother.
18:29
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't say that I took the fall. They
18:31
Speaker 2: gave it to me, right.
18:33
Speaker 1: Your last hope was that your lawyer was going to
18:35
Speaker 1: do a good job representing you and that the truth
18:37
Speaker 1: was going to come out. That's correct, and you were
18:39
Speaker 1: going to go back and get on hold your life.
18:41
Speaker 1: But in fact, your lawyer was compromised.
18:45
Speaker 2: Yes, as it seems. I mean, he was kind of
18:48
Speaker 2: like conflicted in between his duties as a lawyer to
18:52
Speaker 2: me and also to the people that were paying him
18:55
Speaker 2: to represent me, and.
18:56
Speaker 1: The people that were paying him were your parents. Yes,
18:59
Speaker 1: it's almost like they had a Sophie's choice. They had
19:01
Speaker 1: to choose what they did choose and don't if they
19:04
Speaker 1: had to choose to save one child for me.
19:06
Speaker 2: It is basically, and this was never spoken. This is
19:09
Speaker 2: just my thoughts as I got a little older and
19:13
Speaker 2: probably start to piece things together that you know he
19:16
Speaker 2: had a pass you know he was in trouble before.
19:19
Speaker 2: Maybe he could handle this and we would support him.
19:23
Speaker 2: But my brother, he's the baby, and you know, the
19:28
Speaker 2: cops wasn't looking for him. They already gave him a
19:31
Speaker 2: clean slave and said they didn't want him. Even the
19:33
Speaker 2: district attorney said that they had nothing to convict him on.
19:37
Speaker 2: So they look for the easy choice, the person that
19:41
Speaker 2: had the record. If we can't get his brother, then
19:45
Speaker 2: we're going to get him. You served twenty three years.
19:58
Speaker 1: Twenty three years in maximum security prisons in New York State.
20:03
Speaker 2: Yes, was there a.
20:06
Speaker 1: Worst moment and was there a best moment?
20:10
Speaker 2: I mean I had a lot of not a lot
20:12
Speaker 2: of bad moments, but there's a few. One of my
20:16
Speaker 2: worst moments was when I was in green Haven in
20:20
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine ten. I was in college. I
20:25
Speaker 2: was taking Christian Ministry Human Services theology course. I was
20:30
Speaker 2: working in the barbershop and this particular day, I was
20:33
Speaker 2: coming from study hall that have my books, and I'm
20:36
Speaker 2: going back to my cell and I saw a crate
20:42
Speaker 2: and I was like, let me take the create and
20:45
Speaker 2: put my school books in because if anything happened to
20:48
Speaker 2: the school books, I have to pay for them. This
20:50
Speaker 2: is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks
20:53
Speaker 2: and waters dripping all over the place. Sometimes your toilet overflow,
20:58
Speaker 2: your sink overflow. Long story short of officers see me
21:01
Speaker 2: with the create telling me to put it back. I
21:03
Speaker 2: can't have it, and I complied. Supposedly he he must
21:08
Speaker 2: have spoke to another officer, because another officer calls me
21:11
Speaker 2: back and started going crazy on me, like what are
21:15
Speaker 2: you touching here? You know, don't eff in this, don't
21:18
Speaker 2: eff in that. And you know, I just stood there.
21:20
Speaker 2: I figured, you know, okay, he got his buddies here.
21:23
Speaker 2: I'm'a just listen to him, you know, comply and you know, hopefully,
21:29
Speaker 2: you know, I can go to my cell and lock in.
21:32
Speaker 2: And that wasn't the case, you know. So after he
21:36
Speaker 2: started to berate me about, you know, touching stuff and
21:39
Speaker 2: his unit and all this other stuff, I said, okay,
21:43
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sorry. You know, here's the create and
21:48
Speaker 2: I turned to leave. And I think at this point
21:51
Speaker 2: in time he felt like I was dismissing him, you know,
21:56
Speaker 2: or I left without his authority, saying okay, you go,
22:00
Speaker 2: and he took offense to me turning to leave, and
22:07
Speaker 2: he jumped on me. They beat me up. You see
22:09
Speaker 2: my elbow, I left elbow.
22:11
Speaker 1: Yep, he's got a giant nodding it right.
22:17
Speaker 2: My shoulders still hurt to this day. They beat up
22:20
Speaker 2: my elbows, they beat up my shoulders, they beat me up.
22:23
Speaker 2: They dragged me to the box, and they try to
22:26
Speaker 2: charge me with assault. And that was like for me,
22:30
Speaker 2: the worst day because everything that I was doing, I
22:34
Speaker 2: never had no physical altercations while I was in with
22:37
Speaker 2: inmates or officers, anything of that nature. And I'm fighting
22:43
Speaker 2: my case and the only thing that's coming to my
22:46
Speaker 2: mind is that maybe I have an opportunity to get
22:50
Speaker 2: out of prison for my case. But if they try
22:53
Speaker 2: to convict me for assault on the staff, which mostly
22:56
Speaker 2: everybody gets convicted of, you know, I just seen my
23:00
Speaker 2: lights go out. It's your word against officer words. And
23:05
Speaker 2: more than one officer is going to say that you
23:08
Speaker 2: didn't what you didn't do. And it's funny to me
23:11
Speaker 2: because it's like I'm saying to myself, like God, how
23:15
Speaker 2: does stuff and keep happening to me? And my parents
23:19
Speaker 2: they're so religious that you know they would hit you
23:22
Speaker 2: with you haven't submitted to God yet, you haven't let go.
23:26
Speaker 2: You're being tested you're going through the fire. And you know,
23:31
Speaker 2: I cried like a baby because I seen my lights
23:35
Speaker 2: go out. And maybe this was also the opportunity that
23:39
Speaker 2: I seen God working in my life. Because subsequently, guys
23:48
Speaker 2: that knew me, that locked on the company with me,
23:51
Speaker 2: they have wrote this Attorney's General Office to inspect the general.
23:55
Speaker 2: They have wrote Prison Legal Services, And I never knew
24:01
Speaker 2: that people probably watched me or cared about me like
24:06
Speaker 2: that I'm talking about inmates, hearting criminals or whatever, and
24:12
Speaker 2: they inspect the general. When they inspect, the generals came
24:15
Speaker 2: to see me, and I had written to them again
24:20
Speaker 2: because one of the guys inside the shoe area had
24:24
Speaker 2: told me, listen, you need to write these people. You
24:26
Speaker 2: need to write this person. Da da da da da.
24:28
Speaker 2: So I was getting advice from individuals or who I
24:30
Speaker 2: have to write, who I have to contact to try
24:32
Speaker 2: to get from underneath this, and so I wrote them
24:36
Speaker 2: as well. And when they came to see me, you know,
24:40
Speaker 2: we talk. He says, well, we have to do our
24:42
Speaker 2: investigation and stuff of that nature. And then they came
24:46
Speaker 2: to see me, and I guess this is the first
24:50
Speaker 2: time in my life that I could say that I've
24:53
Speaker 2: seen the hand of God, because when he called me
25:00
Speaker 2: and they interview me, he says, I have good news
25:03
Speaker 2: and bad news. The good news is that we're not
25:08
Speaker 2: going to charge you with assault on staff because I've
25:12
Speaker 2: read all the reports that came in. I read the
25:14
Speaker 2: police reports, and I read not just your report, but
25:19
Speaker 2: I got several letters written from other inmates who had
25:22
Speaker 2: witnessed what took place. And I know that you didn't
25:28
Speaker 2: have contact with these individuals because they brought you to
25:30
Speaker 2: the box and it says your story and their story
25:34
Speaker 2: adds up, and none of the police stories adds up.
25:38
Speaker 2: But you have to go through the formalities. I still
25:41
Speaker 2: had the hearing to go to, and this is how
25:45
Speaker 2: corrupt the Department of Corrections is. I remember the officer
25:50
Speaker 2: that had the altercation with me, that smacked me in
25:52
Speaker 2: my face and hit me with the sticks and all that.
25:54
Speaker 2: And there was two other officers there, but I didn't
25:56
Speaker 2: remember the two. And the reason why I remember the
25:59
Speaker 2: one is he was my company officer. He's there every day.
26:03
Speaker 2: The officer that comes in the hearing was in the
26:07
Speaker 2: officer that hit me or I had the altercation with
26:11
Speaker 2: It was somebody else. And we're going through the formalities
26:15
Speaker 2: and questioning the officer and stuff like that. So the
26:18
Speaker 2: officer said that we were standing the right shoulder, the
26:21
Speaker 2: right shoulder, and I took my left hand and punched
26:27
Speaker 2: him on the left side of his face. That caused
26:32
Speaker 2: him to bust his head on the pipes and bust
26:36
Speaker 2: his head open. And when I started to play if
26:41
Speaker 2: we stand the right shoulder to shoulder and I hit
26:43
Speaker 2: him with my left hand on the left side of
26:47
Speaker 2: his face, how is that possible. I would have to
26:51
Speaker 2: go over It's not come back and hit him, and
26:54
Speaker 2: you know so, so I asked the officer to demonstrate
26:58
Speaker 2: this punch. Can you demonstrate how I hit you with
27:03
Speaker 2: my left hand on the left side of your face?
27:05
Speaker 2: If we stand the right shoulder the right shoulder, I
27:08
Speaker 2: would like for you to demonstrate this. And the hearing
27:12
Speaker 2: officer said that there will be no demonstrations in here,
27:15
Speaker 2: so he never got to demonstrate, and I, you know, objected,
27:18
Speaker 2: and I told him that it's impossible that that can
27:21
Speaker 2: take place. Long story short, The officer that wrote the
27:25
Speaker 2: report or that they brought in that said he wrote
27:28
Speaker 2: the report. I asked him, did he see the police
27:33
Speaker 2: hit me? And he said yes, So then I asked him, then,
27:39
Speaker 2: why is it not written in the report that the
27:41
Speaker 2: police struck me. The lieutenant looks and he's like, I said,
27:47
Speaker 2: It's not in the ticket, is not in the two
27:50
Speaker 2: firmt reports, is not in any document that was given
27:53
Speaker 2: to me. So the lieutenant asked the CEO, why is that?
28:00
Speaker 2: And maybe at this time he was afraid. I don't
28:02
Speaker 2: know what it is, but I believe at this point
28:04
Speaker 2: in time, this is when I've seen God worked in
28:06
Speaker 2: my life. And he tells the truth. He says, I
28:11
Speaker 2: didn't write the report. The lieutenant said, you didn't write
28:14
Speaker 2: the report. He said, no, I didn't write the report.
28:16
Speaker 2: He said, who wrote the report? He said, a sergeant
28:20
Speaker 2: such and such wrote the report. He said, where was
28:23
Speaker 2: the sergeant when the incident happened? He wasn't there. The
28:28
Speaker 2: sergeant wrote the report, made another officer sign it and
28:32
Speaker 2: said in the hearing as the officer who witnessed what
28:36
Speaker 2: took place and knew nothing about it. Case closed and
28:41
Speaker 2: they dismissed the case.
28:43
Speaker 1: Amen to that, or you might not be here now.
28:47
Speaker 1: So and we know now that you paroled, And I
28:51
Speaker 1: want to get to that because that's a really extraordinary story.
28:55
Speaker 1: In and of itself, I think it says a lot
28:58
Speaker 1: about what the parole board really thought about your claims
29:01
Speaker 1: of innocence. But before we get to that, I want
29:05
Speaker 1: to talk about what was going on on the outside.
29:09
Speaker 1: Because there was a guy in the neighborhood. I mean,
29:12
Speaker 1: can we mention his name?
29:14
Speaker 2: Well, for legal purposes, you know, I wouldn't like to
29:16
Speaker 2: mention his name. It called my case is still being
29:18
Speaker 2: reviewed by the conviction Review Unit. So, but this individual
29:23
Speaker 2: was a childhood friend of mine. We had haven't seen
29:26
Speaker 2: each other in years, and he had moved away from
29:29
Speaker 2: the neighborhood. And when he came back to the neighborhood,
29:32
Speaker 2: he was looking, you know, for old friends, and you know,
29:35
Speaker 2: subsequently he was looking for me and heard that I
29:38
Speaker 2: was in prison. So he wanted to know why, and
29:41
Speaker 2: the whole story came out and he couldn't believe it.
29:45
Speaker 2: You know, he took it upon himself to try to
29:46
Speaker 2: help me.
29:47
Speaker 1: How do you do that?
29:48
Speaker 2: Well, the individual who actually committed a crime used to
29:52
Speaker 2: see him all the time, and because he's still living
29:55
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood, mostly people that knew both of us,
29:58
Speaker 2: he would ask them, you know, how they felt about him.
30:02
Speaker 2: It was he still you know, like welcome or they
30:04
Speaker 2: still had love for him, knowing that I was in
30:07
Speaker 2: prison serving time for a crime that he committed. And
30:12
Speaker 2: my friend he was like he couldn't believe this, and
30:14
Speaker 2: he's like, this guy just keep saying that he did it.
30:19
Speaker 2: He did it, and he's the reason why you in prison.
30:22
Speaker 2: You know, he wrote me a letter. I showed you
30:23
Speaker 2: the letter that he wrote. And he took it upon
30:26
Speaker 2: himself too to record this individual, to tape them saying
30:31
Speaker 2: the same things about me being in prison for a
30:33
Speaker 2: crime he committed. And even when as far as that
30:38
Speaker 2: he used to he does security bouncing work because he's
30:41
Speaker 2: six eight, three hundred something pounds, and this is God
30:45
Speaker 2: again in my life. He so happened to be working
30:49
Speaker 2: doing security at a spot where Detective Calibres, the leading
30:55
Speaker 2: detective in my case, was also working. What's the pretty
31:02
Speaker 2: long and he spoke to Calabris about the case and
31:08
Speaker 2: told him that he had the wrong person in prison
31:11
Speaker 2: for the crime. What Calabris said, Calabri's just told him
31:14
Speaker 2: tell his brother to come forward and he can get out.
31:20
Speaker 2: That was his words. See, because Calabri's knew and he
31:25
Speaker 2: had told me as much when he brought me in,
31:30
Speaker 2: you know, because he was like, where's your brother wears
31:32
Speaker 2: his friends and I'm like, I don't know. I'm not
31:34
Speaker 2: my brother's keeper. You know, I don't live with my brother.
31:38
Speaker 2: I live with my wife. But he didn't care about that.
31:42
Speaker 2: And you know, once things start to unravel in the
31:45
Speaker 2: conviction review unit and they start to review my case,
31:49
Speaker 2: they reached out to him two to three weeks after
31:52
Speaker 2: they reviewed my case and next thing, you know, self
31:57
Speaker 2: inflicted wounds somewhere in his car. You know, he took
32:02
Speaker 2: his own life.
32:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like his conscience may have gotten to
32:06
Speaker 1: him and we'll never know because he didn't leave a
32:08
Speaker 1: note or anything, right, but the timing seems.
32:12
Speaker 2: Really to be suspicious.
32:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the conviction review unit starts looking into
32:18
Speaker 1: your case, it's inevitable that they're going to find out
32:21
Speaker 1: what happened. Because the conviction Review unit in Brooklyn, I
32:23
Speaker 1: can say this, they don't fuck around. But these guys
32:26
Speaker 1: are under the leadership of Eric Gonzales and before that,
32:28
Speaker 1: Ken Thompson. They are committed to finding and identifying and
32:33
Speaker 1: resolving wrong for conviction cases. And they've been doing it
32:36
Speaker 1: and walking the walk and so once they took over
32:40
Speaker 1: reinvestigating your case, Detective Calabriezi must have known that some
32:45
Speaker 1: of his misdeeds were going to become public.
32:49
Speaker 2: Yes, he did everything from interviewing the witnesses to getting
32:54
Speaker 2: the fillers for the lineups, conducting the lineup. I mean,
32:59
Speaker 2: nobody else did anything. His name is on all the reports.
33:02
Speaker 1: So the guy who holds the key is dead. Now
33:14
Speaker 1: you went to the parole board, Yes, and you did
33:17
Speaker 1: exactly the opposite of what all the smartest people you knew,
33:20
Speaker 1: or the most the wisest people, I should say, were
33:23
Speaker 1: advising you to do. Right.
33:24
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie, you know. I was very apprehensives
33:28
Speaker 2: and rustle with it. You know, as my wife was
33:31
Speaker 2: his she would tell you, you know, because knowing what I
33:36
Speaker 2: know now, I had told her and I told her
33:38
Speaker 2: before that if I had a chance to do this
33:42
Speaker 2: all over again, I probably would have copped out to
33:45
Speaker 2: something less right.
33:47
Speaker 1: So I was gonna say is when you go to
33:48
Speaker 1: the parole board, the general rule, and this is with
33:51
Speaker 1: very very rare exceptions, the parole board wants to hear
33:54
Speaker 1: you express remorse time, whether you committed it or not.
33:58
Speaker 1: They don't know whether you committed it. They don't have
34:00
Speaker 1: time to reinvestigate it. In New York State, the parole
34:03
Speaker 1: board is reviewing ten thousand cases, around ten thousand cases
34:06
Speaker 1: a year, and there's only somewhere between twelve and nineteen
34:09
Speaker 1: people for the entire state in panels of three, So
34:12
Speaker 1: they have a few minutes to look into your case.
34:14
Speaker 1: They don't have time to go through it, even like
34:16
Speaker 1: we're doing now. So it would be great if they did,
34:19
Speaker 1: but they don't. They're only human beings, you know, they
34:21
Speaker 1: don't have so much time in the day. So the
34:24
Speaker 1: logical thing to do for somebody like you who's desperate
34:27
Speaker 1: to get out and get back with your family and
34:29
Speaker 1: get back on, you know, to your life, is to
34:32
Speaker 1: just plead guilty, and then they're most likely going to say, okay,
34:36
Speaker 1: well you've served twenty three years and you've done you know,
34:39
Speaker 1: ministry and all this other stuff in prison.
34:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go home now. But you didn't know.
34:44
Speaker 2: And I mean I rustle with it. I prayed about
34:47
Speaker 2: it because I want to go home. You know, what
34:52
Speaker 2: should I do? I mean, even though all these years
34:55
Speaker 2: I'm telling them I didn't commit the crime. Now I'm
34:57
Speaker 2: up for parole. What do I do Do I go
35:02
Speaker 2: in there and put on a show and say that
35:05
Speaker 2: I'm remorse and I'm sorry and that you know, you know,
35:10
Speaker 2: I don't know what to say but the truth. And
35:13
Speaker 2: I wrestle with it. And I mean, like, people is
35:16
Speaker 2: telling me, don't go in there and tell them that
35:18
Speaker 2: you didn't do it. They're going to hit you. They're
35:20
Speaker 2: going to give you more time. And I said, well,
35:24
Speaker 2: I'm going in there and I'm going to tell them
35:27
Speaker 2: what I've been telling them since the beginning. I didn't
35:30
Speaker 2: commit the crime, but I understand why it's possible for
35:34
Speaker 2: individual like me to be considered for a crime such
35:38
Speaker 2: as this, you know. And I'm going to give them
35:42
Speaker 2: my story about my past, how I came to be
35:46
Speaker 2: here today, and what I've done since I was incarcerated,
35:50
Speaker 2: and what I plan to do when I get out.
35:54
Speaker 2: And for that whole ten days after that, I had
35:58
Speaker 2: to wait to get the results, seven to ten days.
36:01
Speaker 2: It was the worst week of my life. No sleep,
36:07
Speaker 2: no sleep, cause that whole week I already felt cause
36:10
Speaker 2: the way that they spoke to me inside the parole board,
36:14
Speaker 2: I felt that there wasn't gonna release me. My counselor
36:18
Speaker 2: gives me the envelope. I open it and to be honest,
36:22
Speaker 2: my eyes are teared up cause I'm and I'm looking
36:25
Speaker 2: for the worst. And it's sad to say I'm looking
36:27
Speaker 2: for denial. I'm just looking for any word with a
36:30
Speaker 2: D for denial, refuse, whatever. And I I didn't see
36:34
Speaker 2: and my counselor's like you okay, I said, yeah, I
36:38
Speaker 2: just I can't find the decision. So he's like, well,
36:44
Speaker 2: give it to me, and he highlights it he knew before,
36:50
Speaker 2: and he give it back to me, and I couldn't
36:54
Speaker 2: believe it. They let me go and I'll be lying
37:01
Speaker 2: out of there, you know, call my family and told
37:06
Speaker 2: them and it was overjoyed, but it was it's still
37:15
Speaker 2: a lot now just thinking about it.
37:17
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. Nobody can imagine that hasn't been through it.
37:20
Speaker 2: You know, that was the best moment for me in prison.
37:27
Speaker 2: That and learning some stuff about myself because you know,
37:30
Speaker 2: like I became the director of the Used Assystem program
37:33
Speaker 2: and I used to mentor teens that used to bring
37:37
Speaker 2: high school kids in and I used to speak to
37:39
Speaker 2: them about my life story, about how I end up
37:42
Speaker 2: serving a life scientists for a crime I didn't commit,
37:44
Speaker 2: and how easy it is for you to find yourself
37:48
Speaker 2: in situations like this by the company that you keeping,
37:51
Speaker 2: choices that you make, and the brochure that I penned
37:56
Speaker 2: had the title you know you never get a second
37:59
Speaker 2: chance for or suppression.
38:01
Speaker 1: It's been an extraordinary experience for me getting to know
38:05
Speaker 1: you and learning about your story. Of course, you know,
38:11
Speaker 1: I thank you for coming in and sharing it, and
38:14
Speaker 1: I think that through your words, it's going to inspire
38:18
Speaker 1: a lot of people to keep fighting whatever they're up against.
38:22
Speaker 1: And now it's time for my favorite part of the show.
38:25
Speaker 1: Fans of the podcast know that this is the time
38:29
Speaker 1: when I turn off my microphone and just sit back
38:35
Speaker 1: and leave your microphone on. For closing arguments.
38:39
Speaker 2: I guess one of the most things that I could
38:41
Speaker 2: possibly say is for jurors, because district attorneys is going
38:46
Speaker 2: to be them. They trying to win cases. Officers are
38:50
Speaker 2: trying to lock people up. But as a jural is
38:55
Speaker 2: your job.
38:56
Speaker 3: To discern the truth, to find the truth, and sometimes
39:02
Speaker 3: I guess they get more clouded by what took place
39:07
Speaker 3: as opposed to what is the truth, and so emotions
39:12
Speaker 3: come into play with everything as opposed.
39:15
Speaker 2: To rationale, and that's why you can find individuals such
39:20
Speaker 2: as myself in positions like this where you can do
39:23
Speaker 2: time for a crime you didn't commit, because people's emotions
39:27
Speaker 2: are more tied up in the event, but not trying
39:31
Speaker 2: to find the actual truth when they sit on jerors
39:34
Speaker 2: on jury. I believe part of that outside of what
39:38
Speaker 2: the disc attorney did, the detective did, the jurors are
39:44
Speaker 2: the ones who has the final say, and if they
39:47
Speaker 2: don't use rationale to decipher the truth from the garbage
39:51
Speaker 2: that is being spewed out there, that's why there's so
39:55
Speaker 2: many of us in prison wrongfully. Anyone out there it
40:00
Speaker 2: is going through a situation such as this, just continue fighting.
40:04
Speaker 2: No one knows what the future holds.
40:07
Speaker 4: And as hope, don't forget to give us a fantastic
40:17
Speaker 4: review wherever you get your podcasts.
40:19
Speaker 1: It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the
40:22
Speaker 1: Enniscence Project and I really hope you'll join me in
40:25
Speaker 1: supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future
40:29
Speaker 1: wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how
40:33
Speaker 1: to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our
40:35
Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in
40:39
Speaker 1: the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
40:42
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
40:46
Speaker 1: and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with
40:50
Speaker 1: Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
40:53
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one