Latest / Off the Page / Episode 002-Bruce Rule & K. R. Raye-Sherlock Holmes meets Alice Roosevelt
Transcript
- K. R. Raye: Salutations, readers. Welcome to Off the Page Podcast with KR Raye, "Your Authorpreneur." This is the place where stories leap off the page. Every episode, we explore the characters and stories that stay with us and resonate long after we finish reading the book or watching the show. I'm the host KR Raye, Your Authorpreneur, and authorpreneurs, just like entrepreneurs, wear multiple hats. In my case, I'm an award-winning author. Screenwriter, podcaster, speaker, and publisher. Today's guest is fellow authorpreneur Bruce Rule Bruce is a veteran journalist, news editor, publisher, an award-winning public speaker and coach, and an author of two self-help guides and his debut novel, That Just Published July 7th. So today we're focusing on just one of his numerous hats, and that's as well as an author. So without further ado, Bruce Rule, welcome to Off the Page. It's wonderful to have you here. Bruce Rule: Thank you very much, thank you. Thank you. K. R. Raye: our pleasure. So let's jump right in. So as authors and creatives, we understand the importance of characters and stories to our audience. So we're gonna dive into our first segment, The Character We Won't Forget. With your new novel, The Further Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, the Debutante Detective, you feature two well-known characters, actually three, but Sherlock Holmes, Alice Roosevelt, and President Teddy Roosevelt. Discuss what makes audiences emotionally attach to these characters. Bruce Rule: This is the book and and you know, the point is the debutante detective, which the publisher said that he wanted that in the title because they wanted to focus a little bit more on Alice Roosevelt. Because Alice Roosevelt, for those of you who don't know, was sort of the princess Diana of her time. She was hugely famous. she had entered the White House at age eighteen. Or 17, she turned 18 as soon as she got in the White House. She's the oldest daughter of Teddy, and she's absolutely gorgeous. She's a beautiful, poised woman who is quick-witted, she's a bit rebellious. The press at the time even called her Princess Alice because that's that's how they treated her. And I wanted to capture that kind of character in the book because I wanted somebody who could stand up. Sort of toe-to-toe with Sherlock Holmes. Because Sherlock Holmes is so powerful and he's such a known character that if you're gonna have a female protagonist in the book, and quite frankly, if you're an author, you better because women buy more books than men. K. R. Raye: Yeah. Bruce Rule: Yes, they do. So you want to have a strong female protagonist. So you want to have somebody who can stand up to Holmes, but not sort of be Holmes in, you know? So I took this young woman. And as I said, she's very rebellious and she acts that way in the book. She's she's a distraction at times. She knows that she's smart. She knows she's world famous, and she uses that to her advantage in a way that helps the story along and helps the detectives solve the problem. But at the same time is true to who she was in real life. I mean, this is this is a woman. I I love so telling stories about her because she's so wonderful. You know, when Teddy Roosevelt said, No daughter of mine will smoke under my roof, she climbed on top of the White House and lit a cigarette. Yeah. I mean you gotta love somebody like that. K. R. Raye: Second, not under the roof, I'm on top of the roof. Bruce Rule: Right. You gotta love somebody like that. You know, in a in a time when high society women were expected to be treated a certain way, she smoked in public, which was not considered not good. She she gambled in public. Again, not good. She and a girlfriend made national headlines because the two of them drove from Rhode Island to Boston by themselves without a chaperone. Think about think about how different the world is a hundred and twenty five years later. Two women national headlines because they drove a car by themselves. It's crazy. It's crazy. K. R. Raye: Thelma and Louise well before Thelma and Louise. Bruce Rule: Right, right. And and you know, Teddy Roosevelt's very famous quote about Alice was one day he was sitting in the Oval Office trying to conduct a meeting, and Alice kept popping in to do whatever, talk to him and what have you. And after like the third time she'd interrupted the meeting, he turned to the visitor and said, I can be president of the United States or I can control Alice. I can't possibly do both. Wh which is such a wonderful line, you know? And that's it. I tried K. R. Raye: This is awesome. Bruce Rule: I tried to capture that in the book. you know, I I tried to capture that. This is a woman who you know, is kind of rebellious in in a good way, in a good way, but smart, she's educated and she's she's got power. She's she's a a very famous person. So that was the character I really, really enjoyed writing. You know, Holmes and and Watson, they who are who they are. And you can't really mess around with them too much or the Sherlock Holmes fans' I'll rip you apart apart. And you know, Teddy Roosevelt, I brought him in just just to have a few scenes with him where he's moving the story along, but I I didn't really want him to be a focus because I wanted Alice to be the focus. Because I thought the female protagonist was really more important than having her father there. So he came in, he sets things in motion. He's there a few times in the book, but it's really a book about Sherlock Holmes, Watson and Alice. Those are the three main characters. K. R. Raye: That's actually such a great setup and such a great premise because yeah, I love again how you described her as like the Princess Di before Princess Di right? And having that whole storyline really just drives it. And having him in the background is like, yeah, we'll deal with you as you go through. But that protagonist combination is a winning combination. why? that'll actually take me right into our next segment, the scene that stayed with you. So discuss a scene from your book that emotionally impacted you and why? Bruce Rule: that that one that one's tough because I'll I'll tell you, you know, e even though I wrote this a year ago, obviously, and then it went to the publisher and it's been in editing and whatnot, and it just came out now. There are a few scenes in there that you know, I it still resonates with me. You know, even a year later I I'll I'll be driving around or something, I'll think, you know, a Alice really said that or Alice did this. for instance, to to highlight The fact that she's n not just a a rebel, but she she's she's very smart is I I can't go into too many details because I don't want spoil the the book, but at one point she gets up and she addresses an all-male Republican Party meeting because Teddy Roosevelt was Republican, so he she gets up and she addresses them and she holds them in thrall because she knows the politics, she knows she knows w how to speak in public. And you know, I really wanted to capture that because I wanted to show that she's not just this, you know, wild party girl, but she's actually a very intelligent woman. And you know, and Watson is watching this because not Watson narrates the story, and he's like, These men are actually like paying attention to this young girl who's half their age, and she's holding their attention. So I I felt that scene was really important to the book. Now, does it move the plot along all that much? Not as much as you think, but for the character purposes, I really needed that that in there. The other thing that I thought was really kind of interesting, the other scenes that I thought really meant something, is and and this is kind of funny because I had I had one of my members of my critique group complain about it, is I would always have Sherlock Holmes start to explain a mystery to Watson and then get interrupted. You know, something would happen. And so yeah, you only got half the explanation. You had to wait for the next chapter. And one of the women in my critique group actually said, you know, this is really annoying because I had and I have to read the next chapter. And I'm like, yes, that's the whole point. point. That is the whole point of it, you know? I'm trying to make sure you read the next chapter. K. R. Raye: You have to keep that's great plotting. You have to be able to have the little cliffhangers to keep reading. Bruce Rule: Right, right, right. You know, and I just thought you know, that that the that whole thing just resonates with me so much 'cause she was so funny about it. And I'm like, you know, that's exactly why I wrote those scenes that way. I didn't K. R. Raye: Okay. Bruce Rule: want you to be satisfied. I wanted you to keep reading. K. R. Raye: Is is the perfect backhand to compliment. Man, you annoyed me. I had to keep reading the book. Bruce Rule: Right, right. Yes, yes. K. R. Raye: I couldn't put it down. Bruce Rule: I know, I know. It was just it was just so funny. but there's li you know, well, you've lived with your characters. You know you know that once you start living with them, they you know, it's hard to let go of them. one of the things that I found really interesting with the scenes is Mrs. Johnson, who is Alice Roosevelt's secretary, at the beginning of the book, I needed somebody to sort of spark the action to begin. So I I have Alice's secretary there. Just basically she was gonna be a a bit character who sparks the story to to to get it going. But you know, darn it, she kept getting in the way. She kept speaking up. She kept sort of sliding into the action. and I love those scenes with her because She just would not be quiet. and about halfway through the book, through my critique group, a number of people were saying, I wanna see more of Mrs. Johnson. I wanna see more of Mrs. Johnson. So I I had to keep bringing her into the scenes and you know, that that's really lovely in when you're writing a book, you know, and the character sort of takes over because it becomes a lot more fun. Y you know what I mean? K. R. Raye: It's becomes so much more fun and it makes it easier, quote unquote, to write because you have these characters. It means that it's full-flesh characters. People will find them relatable. they're sticking with you, right? And it winds up as we go through and and write these books, you know, you could do a spinoff on on her character, right? And it's just all these different things that pop up. That when we start the process, we have no idea where it's gonna go sometimes. Even if we have it like completely outlined, these characters will sneak in and just take over. And it it's a beautiful thing. Especially when it connects with the audiences like that. It's like, Bruce Rule: It's it's interesting. You st you. K. R. Raye: we need more of her. Bruce Rule: Right. Well, it's interesting that you say I could do a spin-off on her because after I finished the Holmes book, I took a vacation out to Yellowstone National Park and I went over to Cody, Wyoming, where they have a Museum of the Old West. And there were a lot of women outlaws and whatnot from the Old West in the museum. And Mrs. Johnson in in the Sherlock Holmes book i is from the old west. She's she's born and raised in Arizona and I thought, you know, I should write something about her because she's such a fun character. So I actually have written a prequel to this book, focusing just on her before she came east, and I'm querying that now. I'm sending it out to to publishers and agents now. So hopefully that something'll happen with that one. I don't know. Titan Books, which published the Sherlock Holmes book, they passed on it because they don't do Westerns, and this is more or less a Western because it's her and the old West. So maybe it'll see publication. Maybe I'll have to self publish it at some point. But yeah, she grew on me quite a bit and I ended up writing a whole book about her. K. R. Raye: Whole different genre, whole new book. It it's that's like that is definitely the definition of scenes and characters that stay with you where they have to get their story out. And a really cool part of that too, Bruce, is that nowadays I have a a number of friends, author friends, who are into historical fiction, and it's just something that's been taking off because to your point, even going back to Alice. We don't know enough about our history and being able to shed light on all of these different intersections of people across the world and across the US. I mean, that is just such a gift to be able to, reintroduce these historical figures to a new generation. So that's cool. Bruce Rule: And and and you know, the thing one of the pieces of feedback I got from the critique group when I was writing the Sherlock Holmes book is they wanted to know more about 1905 New York City because that's where most of this book is happening. And, you know, so it I would have them walk places. You know, sometimes they had to take a cab 'cause they had you know, they had to get somewhere quick. But otherwise they would walk and they'd talk about the buildings as they saw, you know, the new Herald Square, the new You know, so I I was given a little bit of a travelogue in a way of what New York City was like in nineteen five and I think it worked out very well. In the Western book that I've as I said I'm querying right now, I spent a lot of time explaining what they ate in 1902 Arizona, you know, what the houses were like in 1902 Arizona all all these like little tiny everyday things that you and I might not know about but were real back then and you're like, really? They had le they grew lemons? Lemons was a big crop in in Arizona in 1902 I had no idea. You know what I mean? So you're educating the reader K. R. Raye: Exactly. Bruce Rule: and yourself while you're doing the research for these historical books. It's it's a lot of fun, it really is. K. R. Raye: It's see, you've gone right into our last interview segment, the emotional core, what makes it real, and describing and discussing that central emotional tension that makes the work and creative process so real. And that's right up there with it. One of the things that people will say a lot about my books is like, my gosh, you must have grown up there because the way you describe the whole environment, I feel like I'm there, or it reminded me of my childhood when I grew up there, right? And that's exactly what you're talking about here, being able to go through and immerse our readers and audience into this 1900 New York City or into Arizona. I mean, it there's so much that goes into it. Like you were saying, you have to hit all five of the senses right? And it's just Bruce Rule: Mm-hmm. K. R. Raye: like, What are they seeing? What are they smelling? What are they tasting or feeling? And I mean, what what does that mean to you when you're going through and bringing all that together and getting the audience excited about it? Bruce Rule: It's it's a lot of fun and and actually in a way, when you talk about what resonates with the reader and what I really enjoyed and some of the feedback I'm getting. In fact, Publishers Weekly did a review of the Sherlock Holmes book and and touched on this as well, is that I really wanted the reader to feel that Watson and Holmes had grown closer over the years. Because you know The book takes place in 1905, which means that they've been best friends for 25 years. That's a long time to be best friends. That's K. R. Raye: It's a long time. Bruce Rule: a long time. So, you know, if you read the the early Conan Doyle short stories, you have Watson always surprised by Sherlock my god, how could you possibly have figured that out? By the time this happens, he's like Yeah, okay, you're doing the mind reading trick again. Yeah, okay, stop that, you know. You know, please stop me you know. So K. R. Raye: It is that language that you have, that shorthand language you have after twenty five years of being together and best friends. Bruce Rule: Right, yeah, you know, and and I and I approached it, I approached the book that way. I said, you know, it's being narrated by Watson. In the Conan Doyle canon, he's probably fifty-one, fifty-two years old at this point. Sherlock Holmes is fifty years old or approximately at this point. These are not kids who are just starting to know each other. These are settled adult males who are comfortable with each other after twenty-five years. So he knows Holmes by this point. He's not my god, how could you possibly have figured this out? It's all right, I don't even have to ask you because I K. R. Raye: Of course. There you go. Bruce Rule: know you want to tell me anyway, so go ahead and tell me. You know you know or or or you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be profusely emotional with Holmes because it would just embarrass him. He thinks emotions are embarrassing. K. R. Raye: Yeah. Bruce Rule: You see what I'm saying though, you know? K. R. Raye: Exactly. Bruce Rule: Yeah, and and that quota resonance was really impress was something I was really focused on because you can't really change the character Holmes and Watson, but I felt if I could just bring them a little closer and present them to the readers, just here's here's here's their friendship after twenty five years. They're not different people, K. R. Raye: twenty five years. Bruce Rule: but they are different from the eighteen eighty stories. K. R. Raye: Correct. Bruce Rule: And you know, the Publishers Weekly said, Rule found new ways to deepen the relationship between the two. And I thought, you know, that's just great. That's exactly what I was trying to do. and I've gotten that feedback from one or two readers already, that they really liked the relationship between Holmes and Watson. And I really focused on that. That was one of the things I wanted the reader to take away. You know, and they K. R. Raye: Well, Bruce Rule: and they did, I think. K. R. Raye: job well done. And I just want to give you kudos. Getting a Publisher's Weekly review is huge. And to have them say that, bravo. So great job. Great job. Bruce Rule: Thank you. K. R. Raye: Well, that was it. That's a great way to wrap our interview section. So we're going to go on to our next segment, which is called the Marketing Minute. And this is where our wonderful guest shares his best marketing tip. So we all know how important marketing is for authors and creatives, but in reality, everyone has to market themselves nowadays, whether it's for work, school, in relationships. So, Bruce, I'm gonna put 60 seconds on my timer and would love for you to share your best marketing tip or advice. So you ready? All right, go. Bruce Rule: Well, I'm actually gonna give you two quick ones. The first one is you gotta believe in your books. You've gotta you've gotta actually believe in them. You know, so many people are afraid to tell people about it. But you know, the book is your heart and your heart is in the world and the world is better for you having your heart in the world. And you've gotta believe that. So when you're talking to people, you've gotta believe that it'll be better for them to read your book than not. What I like to do with like Sherlock Holmes is I'll say to people, let me ask you a question. I always start with, let me ask you a question. if you're Teddy Roosevelt in nineteen five and your daughter went missing, who are you gonna call for help? Right? You know, with my with my eulogy book, How to Write a Eulogy, I always say to somebody, Do you have an elderly parent or or an elderly spouse? And you wanna be prepared to give them the right tribute, this is what you this is what you do. You know, you ask the question and that gets them talking. And once you get talking, you're K. R. Raye: Get them talking. Bruce Rule: fine. K. R. Raye: That was a beautiful sixty seconds marketing minute. it's just one of those things, get people talking about either your book or whatever they're trying to market in real life. And having questions is one of the best ways to start conversations and get people talking. So that Fantastic, great job. So we're closing everything up. So Bruce, before we wrap, I'll make sure to include the links in the notes, but where can listeners connect with you online? Bruce Rule: Well the be the best way to do it is through BruceRule.com. Nice and easy. My name dot com. but I'm also on Facebook. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Blue Sky. I'm on X. you know, they want you to be on publishers want you to be on everything. I well I'm technically on Instagram. I don't do anything on Instagram. I don't even know how it works. But but BruceRule.com is probably the best way to get a hold of me. K. R. Raye: Perfect. All right, a big thank you to the listeners for joining our conversation, celebrating the characters and stories that stay with us, and the incredible people like Bruce who bring them to life. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode. You can also continue the conversation by joining our Off-the-Page community at www.patreon.com/slash KR RAYE. That's www.p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot c o m slash k-r-r-a-y-e. So we are wrapping it up. Bruce, my gosh, thank you so much for spending time with us today, sharing your wisdom, sharing the book. I can't wait for readers to go out and get it. It's available on sale now. And to our lovely audience, Thanks for joining us for another edition of Off the Page Podcast, wishing you peace, love, and happiness. Until next time. Thanks. Bruce Rule: Thank you. Thank you.