Latest / Boozy Banter with Friends / Investigating the Amityville Horror, Part 1

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Investigating the Amityville Horror, Part 1 · Boozy Banter with Friends

• 0:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello, and welcome to Boozy Banter with Friends.
• 0:12
  Trisha Smith: Join us this week as we explore the supernatural,
• 0:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: with the little sass,
• 0:18
  Trisha Smith: the unexplained,
• 0:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: and a side of snark,
• 0:20
  Trisha Smith: and tales of otherworldly shenanigans.
• 0:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Grab your favorite spirit and join me, Leyla,
• 0:26
  Trisha Smith: And me, Trisha, and meet us on the other side.
• 0:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello.
• 0:45
  Trisha Smith: You sounded unsure,
• 0:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: Did I?
• 0:46
  Trisha Smith: Like, are you?
• 0:46
  Trisha Smith: Hello?
• 0:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello.
• 0:55
  Trisha Smith: Yeah,
• 0:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: It is? Still?
• 0:56
  Trisha Smith: Still sounded, maybe it's just me.
• 0:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hi. That really throws everything off.
• 1:02
  Trisha Smith: Right. Do you remember that show we listened, that podcast we listened to,
• 1:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which one?
• 1:07
  Trisha Smith: a couple of months ago, called Operator?
• 1:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, yes, I do.
• 1:11
  Trisha Smith: That's what that sounded like.
• 1:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hi.
• 1:14
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 1:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: How are you doing?
• 1:18
  Trisha Smith: That was such a weird. I don't think we finished listening to it.
• 1:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't think we did.
• 1:23
  Trisha Smith: It was so weird. I mean, not weird,
• 1:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: but it just wasn't, I expected like some good stuff. And it just really wasn't, it didn't, it wasn't like juicy tidbits of like scandal.
• 1:37
  Trisha Smith: It was in, in the fact that how much, I mean, like the money. The money trail was just so big with that. But yeah, it was just,
• 1:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Are you looking for a hot girl on a lonely night?
• 1:52
  Trisha Smith: Which, okay, now I guess with computers and everything, it's weird to hear that. And it's like, knowing that people actually would spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars to hear that.
• 2:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: But when I was, when I was younger, I remember those commercials.
• 2:12
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 2:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: I remember them, like late at night, and back in the day where Miss Cleo.
• 2:19
  Trisha Smith: Oh yeah.
• 2:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: That was Miss Cleo time.
• 2:21
  Trisha Smith: Tell your fortune.
• 2:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Let Miss Cleo tell your fortune.
• 2:25
  Trisha Smith: So you get your fortune and a litte nookie.
• 2:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: Are you lonely on a Friday night? Just turn on the television and give us a call.
• 2:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: And if you're doubtful about what's going to happen tomorrow, give Miss Cleo a call too.
• 2:41
  Trisha Smith: She'll tell you to call me back.
• 2:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: We're here for you, Big Boy.
• 2:47
  Trisha Smith: Was it just like that, you know?
• 2:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: I think so.
• 2:51
  Trisha Smith: That ego boost, having a stranger tell you all the things you wish you could hear in your life. But then they were talking about how it was like mostly dads.
• 3:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, isn't that the same today? But now it's just like the webcam girls. I mean, it's the same thing. They still have it.
• 3:07
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, but they didn't have to do any, the webcam girls actually have to do something for their buck nowadays, but back then. I mean, they were making probably the same amount of money just talking on the phone.
• 3:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, I'm sure some of the girls would just be like, you wanna see my boob?
• 3:23
  Trisha Smith: How? How?
• 3:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey, you wanna see me take off my shirt halfway and see one boob? Not even gonna show you the nipple yet, just a boob. Just the moundy boob area.
• 3:37
  Trisha Smith: Turn on the Kardashians to see that.
• 3:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Gimme 50 cents. I mean, what 50 cents? What am I saying? Give me $50. I would never. I would never fucking make it. Damn it. I already failed. One day I'll learn to reach highter. Oh my gosh. You know what? Speaking of days,
• 4:02
  Trisha Smith: What?
• 4:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm going to tell you, the rotation of the Earth really makes my day. I can't believe I was able to throw that one in there.
• 4:17
  Trisha Smith: I can't either.
• 4:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: So appropriate.
• 4:22
  Trisha Smith: Speaking of soccer dads.
• 4:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: All right. All right. Can't believe I'm saying this, but let's move on. I can't believe it's me. Ah, it must have been those drinks that you've made. You've conjured up some pretty good drinks today.
• 4:47
  Trisha Smith: They are good.
• 4:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, you did a twofer. I mean, the first one was good.
• 4:52
  Trisha Smith: The first one we took pictures, and we'll post to Instagram, and it was a good drink.
• 4:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: It was, for people that don't like sweet drinks.
• 5:01
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 5:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 5:03
  Trisha Smith: But we made a second one. This one's called the Winter Cosmo.
• 5:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 5:09
  Trisha Smith: It's kinda, sorta a knockoff from the, whatever the one is called at bone, is it Bonefish?Fishbones? It's a restaurant.
• 5:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Something with a fish and a bone in it.
• 5:20
  Trisha Smith: Right. however way you want. If you've been there, you know what I'm talking about.
• 5:22
  Trisha Smith: That's, that's good. Because yeah, clearly, I don't know what I'm talking about. But it's a good drink,
• 5:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: It is.
• 5:30
  Trisha Smith: when you go there.
• 5:30
  Trisha Smith: I mean, I think theirs is kind of not so much on the sweet side.
• 5:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's been forever since I've been to either one of those restaurants.
• 5:38
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 5:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Really, it has.
• 5:40
  Trisha Smith: One of them is just local to Florida, and the other one's a chain. I don't know. Anyways, that was our inspiration. And we did it the first time, the way we thought it should be.
• 5:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 5:52
  Trisha Smith: And then we remade it with vanilla vodka.
• 5:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cause you're like, oh, that's not really
• 5:57
  Trisha Smith: that sweet. Let me remake it again.
• 5:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm like, but what are we gonna do with these drinks? Drink them.
• 6:04
  Trisha Smith: They're martinis.
• 6:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: We've had this Martini discussion before.
• 6:07
  Trisha Smith: Right. That's just, you know, like a little, little taste. So we tasted that one and moved on to the second batch, which,
• 6:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: Caused me to talk about 50 cents.
• 6:19
  Trisha Smith: But yes, these are delicious with the vanilla vodka and it's got, it's got a lot of ingredients.
• 6:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: It really, but a lot of strange amounts of the ingredients.
• 6:30
  Trisha Smith: Right. It's like, it's got two ounces of now vanilla vodka,
• 6:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 6:35
  Trisha Smith: That's how I like it. And a third of a cup of cranberry juice. And then it's got these little splashes, like a teaspoon of orange liqueur.
• 6:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: A half a teaspoon.
• 6:47
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, half a teaspoon of lime juice. And then one and a half teaspoons of the elderflower liqueur, which I eyeballed. I'm like, that looks like a teaspoon. It probably is like two.
• 7:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: But those are like such odd
• 7:02
  Trisha Smith: amounts.
• 7:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 7:03
  Trisha Smith: It's like a splash of this, a splash of that. Who measures a teaspoon in a, for like a bar drink?
• 7:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know anybody who measures teaspoons in bar drinks.
• 7:13
  Trisha Smith: Well I didn't. I just did a splash of this, a splash of that. And I was pleasantly surprised.
• 7:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 7:20
  Trisha Smith: Anyways.
• 7:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: You watching anything?
• 7:22
  Trisha Smith: I am, Oh, you know what I just watched?
• 7:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Is it the same thing I just watched?
• 7:27
  Trisha Smith: Probably not.
• 7:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh okay.
• 7:29
  Trisha Smith: What'd you just watch?
• 7:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: You say, you say first.
• 7:33
  Trisha Smith: I rewatched, Oh, I did a rewatch the other day because I was doing some stuff, and I didn't want to get sucked into where you can't do anything, because you're, you have to focus.
• 7:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yep, yep.
• 7:45
  Trisha Smith: So I rewatched Sinister.
• 7:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: Sinister?
• 7:49
  Trisha Smith: Do you remember that movie with Ethan Hawke? And he moves his family into a house that a family has been murdered in to write a book?
• 7:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Gosh, I think it's been a long time.
• 8:01
  Trisha Smith: Oh, it's definitely been a long time. I mean, that movie came out, I feel like ages ago, but it was so good.
• 8:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, man.
• 8:10
  Trisha Smith: When did that movie come out? Now I need to know. Let's check the Googles.
• 8:12
  Trisha Smith: But I had forgotten how creepy it is. And then, you know, you kind of forget because Sinister 2 came out, and that one was kind of not so good.
• 8:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, okay.
• 8:27
  Trisha Smith: And so you forget about how good the first one is, because the second one wasn't.
• 8:30
  Trisha Smith: But after re watching it. I'm like, this is, this is definitely one of those,
• 8:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: 2012.
• 8:38
  Trisha Smith: What? Wow.
• 8:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: October 12, 2012.
• 8:40
  Trisha Smith: 2012. Well, it's a good movie. It's definitely, if you've not seen it in a while, rewatch it.
• 8:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, it's been.
• 8:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's been a long time.
• 8:50
  Trisha Smith: It's, it still had the definite creep factor. Just especially you know, just how it progresses. And him finding those reels of movies and
• 9:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, okay.
• 9:06
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 9:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes, yes. Yeah.
• 9:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay, now, things are starting to come back. But that's how long it's been since I've seen that movie.
• 9:13
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 9:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's been a long time..
• 9:14
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, for me, too.
• 9:14
  Trisha Smith: So when I saw it on Amazon, I think I was on Amazon Prime. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna just watch this. I've seen it before. It won't distract me. Totally distracted me.
• 9:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Lies. Lies.
• 9:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because you realize you haven't seen it in a while and you're watching the whole thing like,
• 9:30
  Trisha Smith: and it's so good that you have to pause and actually watch. So. But what are you watching?
• 9:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: I was gonna say that Netflix show with a really long title about the girl and the window,
• 9:43
  Trisha Smith: The woman in the window.
• 9:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Trisha Smith: Who's looking at the girl across the street in her house?
• 9:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: yeah, the really really long, long, long one.
• 9:49
  Trisha Smith: I have not watched that yet. Is it any good?
• 9:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: I watched till the end.
• 9:53
  Trisha Smith: Yeah? And?
• 9:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Her wine glass is similar to ours.
• 9:57
  Trisha Smith: Oh.
• 9:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'll just say that.
• 9:58
  Trisha Smith: Is it big?
• 10:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes. I mean I really didn't have to go any further. Yes. Her pours are similar to our pours.
• 10:10
  Trisha Smith: Oh. Yeah. She's like, she makes sure she gets her
• 10:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know what it just
• 10:14
  Trisha Smith: four glasses per bottle.
• 10:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: Just less trips back to the kitchen. I unless you carry the bottle with you.
• 10:22
  Trisha Smith: Well, I'll have to watch it. Yeah, cuz I've, I've definitely heard that, it's quirky.
• 10:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's, yeah, yeah, I think I think Kristen Bell did a good job.
• 10:32
  Trisha Smith: I like her.
• 10:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: I really liked it. Yeah.
• 10:35
  Trisha Smith: So I've also been told I need to watch Ghosts.
• 10:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know, you are not the only, I've heard the same.
• 10:43
  Trisha Smith: And I've heard it's on CBS. But I did hear that the BBC version is better.
• 10:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: I heard the same thing.
• 10:52
  Trisha Smith: And so now I've got to find that. So when you find it, let me know. Because I would really like to watch the BBC version. And then maybe I'll try the other one when I can find it. Maybe it'll pop up on Hulu eventually. It just came out this year.
• 11:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 11:08
  Trisha Smith: Anyhow, a couple weeks ago, we watched Amityville
• 11:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: We did. We watched the 1970s version.
• 11:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Horror.
• 11:18
  Trisha Smith: Yes. And it made me want to look into it a little more. Because it was just, you know, we start talking about, is it Fact or Fiction? What was real? What wasn't real? And it's just, just makes me want to know.
• 11:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 11:37
  Trisha Smith: But it's not that simple. Like, there's so much to it, that you're like, Whoa. So I turned it into my story for this week.
• 11:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Not only did you do that,
• 11:51
  Trisha Smith: It became a two part. It's so big.
• 11:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know, when you said this to me, you're like Leyla, it's just I found so much, I don't, I don't know if I can end it. I'm like, why don't we do our first two parter? And then you're like, Oh, that's a great idea. I can absolutely do that. And when you said that, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to hear why.
• 12:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: You found to make it into a two parter. Like, I am
• 12:11
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, ridiculously looking forward to this.
• 12:17
  Trisha Smith: Well, I'm gonna tell you all about it. This week, we're gonna start with the DeFeos. We're gonna start the very beginning.
• 12:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: As it should be.
• 12:26
  Trisha Smith: We're going to talk about the DeFeo family, and the crime that happened in the house.
• 12:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 12:32
  Trisha Smith: And everything that happened before the Amityville Horror came out, and the whole Lutz family part of it.
• 12:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: What? So this is all just the front part? And there's still more? like a whole second half of it?
• 12:47
  Trisha Smith: Still half of it.
• 12:47
  Trisha Smith: Yes. Yeah.
• 12:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, my God.
• 12:50
  Trisha Smith: There's so much.
• 12:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm so excited.
• 12:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Like, I'm excited about this.
• 12:54
  Trisha Smith: All right. Well, let's get started.
• 12:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Alright. Tell me.
• 12:56
  Trisha Smith: The best place to start, I felt like, was the house.
• 13:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:02
  Trisha Smith: It's one of the most famous homes in America.
• 13:05
  Trisha Smith: It's a five bedroom, three and a half bath home located at 108 Ocean Avenue in Amityville, New York. But the original number was 112.
• 13:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: I was gonna say didn't they change the number?
• 13:18
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, it was when the movie took place. When the the DFeos lived there, it was 112. But it had to be changed, because of all the attention that it received from the book and the movies. And it's had multiple owners throughout the years, including the newest owners who bought it in 2016. It was built in 1927 for John and Catherine Monaghan, where they happily raised their kids for many years.
• 13:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: It looks like a beautiful property.
• 13:48
  Trisha Smith: If you look at the pictures, you know, there's the house that was portrayed in the movie, and then there's the house now. And somebody changed all the windows so it doesn't have those weird
• 13:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Those eyes, yeah.
• 14:00
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. Somebody changed the windows, the landscaping and it doesn't even look like the same home but still very pretty. Honestly, this story begins, the Amityville Horror story begins with the DeFeo family. There's no doubt about that, at all. For many reasons. Not just because of the crime that was committed there, but because of how the Amityville Horror came to be, because of the DeFeo family.
• 14:26
  Trisha Smith: Ronald, big Ronnie DeFeo,
• 14:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Big Ronnie?
• 14:30
  Trisha Smith: Big Ronnie.
• 14:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey, Big Ronnie.
• 14:34
  Trisha Smith: And his wife, Louise, purchased the home from the Monaghan's descendants in 1965.
• 14:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 14:43
  Trisha Smith: They moved in with their five children. Ronald Jr.
• 14:47
  Trisha Smith: was the oldest and was also known as Butch DeFeo.
• 14:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: Not little Ronnie?
• 14:52
  Trisha Smith: Not little Ronnie.
• 14:52
  Trisha Smith: Nobody wants to be called Little anything.
• 14:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Alright, maybe.
• 14:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: You got your point there.
• 15:00
  Trisha Smith: Their daughters, Alison and Dawn, Mark and John.
• 15:06
  Trisha Smith: So they had five children total.
• 15:06
  Trisha Smith: And the rumor was that, Big Ronnie, a service manager for a car dealer was only able to afford this lavish home because of his father in law, Michael Brigante,Sr. So he's, he's the one with the money in the family. But apparently, they were a dysfunctional family and would often use violence to resolve any family situations.
• 15:34
  Trisha Smith: At least from Big Ronnie's perspective. Especially towards his son, Butch. He was really hard on him,
• 15:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: And he was the oldest?
• 15:43
  Trisha Smith: He was the oldest.
• 15:43
  Trisha Smith: And he expected a lot out of him and took it out on him physically. So here's a fun fact. Weird fact, about the family.
• 15:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh,
• 15:54
  Trisha Smith: Maybe it was a thing in the 70s, late 60s, early 70s, I don't know. But in the early 70s, Big Ronnie decided that he wanted life sized portraits created of his family.
• 16:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: What?
• 16:08
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, life sized.
• 16:08
  Trisha Smith: And so,
• 16:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's kind of weird.
• 16:15
  Trisha Smith: Once more, Big Ronnie's father in law picked up the tab, which was estimated to be at least $50,000.
• 16:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Shut the front door. At that time?
• 16:25
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 16:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Holy shit.
• 16:27
  Trisha Smith: The extremely detailed portraits took over a year to complete. And when they were done, they were hung in large golden frames on the staircase wall, in between the first and second floors of the home. And they're weird.
• 16:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh.
• 16:41
  Trisha Smith: The mom is all alone in her picture. And hers actually looks more like a portrait type of photo. She's sitting in a chair. She's got a pearls on. Big Ronnie had his portrait done with his oldest son. And then the two girls were together, and the two younger, younger sons were together. But they weren't dressed up or anything. They're wearing, like normal looking clothes? And sitting in like, it's just weird. I mean, it really looks like a Sears portrait.
• 17:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: No.
• 17:16
  Trisha Smith: That somebody just painted into a painting.
• 17:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay, that's just, that's
• 17:22
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 17:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Even more strange.
• 17:23
  Trisha Smith: So, I mean, I have the link and I'll put it
• 17:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, I definitely want to see these.
• 17:27
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I'll put it on our, our website with the family photos, because they're also hanging, like if you look in the crime scene photos, they're hanging on the wall going up the stairs. And they're big. They've got to be probably three feet by four feet each.
• 17:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's just strange.
• 17:46
  Trisha Smith: Uh-huh. So anyways, fast forward to
• 17:49
  November 13 1974. Around 6: 30pm 23 year old Butch DeFeo ran into a local tavern called Harry's Bar and yelled, "Help. I think my mother and father have been shot." Five men left the bar with him to go back to the DeFeo home, where they found the bodies of Big Ronnie and Louise, nine year old John and 12 year old Mark, before running out of the home and calling the police.
• 18:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, why wouldn't he just call the cops?
• 18:22
  Trisha Smith: Right. I don't, I don't know. I mean, he never,
• 18:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Was the phone not working in their house?
• 18:27
  Trisha Smith: He said he was too, like he didn't know,
• 18:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: He was just too shaken up.
• 18:31
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, yeah. So when the police arrived, they also found 13 year old Allison and 18 year old Dawn. And Butch was arrested on the spot for the murders.
• 18:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Really?
• 18:44
  Trisha Smith: So I don't know if it was because he was the only one there, if something was said, you know, when they were questioning, you know what happened, but they arrested him for the murders.
• 18:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's kind of strange that he was arrested right on the spot.
• 19:01
  Trisha Smith: Right. After a lengthy trial, he was found guilty. And on December 4 1975, so almost a year exactly, later, he was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. No other suspect was ever prosecuted for the crime. And officially, Butch DeFeo acted alone.
• 19:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Officially.
• 19:28
  Trisha Smith: Officially.
• 19:28
  Trisha Smith: Butch's grandfather, Michael Brigante, testified that he didn't think Butch acted alone, though. And after the trial, he hired a private investigator to either prove or disprove his suspicions.
• 19:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: Why did he wait till after the trial?
• 19:48
  Trisha Smith: I don't think they could do anything, maybe because of the evidence they had and what had come out at the time.
• 19:54
  Trisha Smith: Maybe he's like, wait, wait, wait, this doesn't sound right, so now I'm going to go in and,
• 20:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: But he didn't think his grandson was innocent, though.
• 20:05
  Trisha Smith: I don't think, I don't think he did.
• 20:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: So I wonder what the evidence was.
• 20:11
  Trisha Smith: I don't know. Let me tell you why.
• 20:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Sorry. Getting ahead.
• 20:17
  Trisha Smith: So the investigator, a former New York City supervising police detective, eventually uncovered evidence that showed there were multiple gunman and at least two guns used during the crime.
• 20:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh.
• 20:32
  Trisha Smith: So why he was able to figure this out, but not the police, I don't know.
• 20:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't Yeah.
• 20:37
  Trisha Smith: And it doesn't say. I don't know if the police were like, they just wanted to close the case. and they just ignored the facts. Or how that was missed by the police department. But it was the, this is the report that he turned over to the grandfather. During both a private court hearing and at the trial, his findings were corroborated by the prosecutor and the medical examiner. I should probably read my own, my own findings here.
• 21:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: We're gonna blame it on these Cosmos.
• 21:09
  Trisha Smith: I know. But during both a private court hearing, and at the trial, his findings were corroborated by prosecutor and the medical examiner who couldn't believe that one man was being accused of being the only gunman.
• 21:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow, yet it still happened?
• 21:28
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, they still like, they had the evidence, but they still didn't look at any other suspects.
• 21:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: But how crappy of a prosecutor is that guy, that he couldn't have been like,
• 21:40
  Trisha Smith: Hey, there's another gunman out there. I should probably do my job and try to find him? Right, you would think. During a meeting in November of 2000, with Rick Osuna. He's the author of the book, The Night the DeFeos Died.
• 21:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 21:55
  Trisha Smith: Butch confessed that along with his sister, Dawn DeFeo, he and one of his friends actually committed the murders out of desperation. He even confirmed this in a handwritten letter stating it was cold blooded murder period. No ghosts, no demons, just three people in which I was one.
• 22:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: But his sister ended up dying?
• 22:20
  Trisha Smith: Right. Here's the story he told.
• 22:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 22:23
  Trisha Smith: According to Butch, after a rough evening of arguments and abuse from their father, he, his sister, and two of his friends had gotten high in the basement of their home.
• 22:35
  Trisha Smith: And it was actually his sister who approached him about killing their parents, which he initially refused. She was pissed at them for not letting her join her boyfriend, William Davidge, in Florida, so it all goes back to a boy. And that was a fact that he gave sworn testimony to during Butch's trial. Like, he said, Yeah, she was like, unhinged about not being able to come down and live with me in Florida. But after a few hours of drugs and alcohol, Butch gave in and convinced his friends to help. So around 1am, one friend kept watch, while Butch, Dawn, and the other friend went to the second floor and to their parents room, where Big Ronnie and Louise were killed by two bullets each.
• 23:23
  Trisha Smith: Evidently, their original plan was that the younger kids would be at their grandparents home in Brooklyn. But since they were home, it was Dawn, according to Butch, who killed them to eliminate any witnesses.
• 23:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: Holy shit.
• 23:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's, that psycho though.
• 23:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's your brother and your sister.
• 23:44
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 23:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: All because you were pissed that, at your parents for not letting you go live with your boyfriend in Florida?
• 23:49
  Trisha Smith: Exactly. Butch insisted he wasn't even present when she did it, because he had ran after one of his friends who had taken off. I think the one that was keep, supposed to be keeping watch? Even though he claimed to be insane during his trial, Butch never admitted to shooting the children. In all of the years that he told stories, and changed his stories, and claimed you know, all these issues. That was the one thing he was adamant about. That he did not kill his brothers and sister. Yeah, they were 13, 12.
• 24:25
  Trisha Smith: And when I say nine?
• 24:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow.
• 24:29
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. And he was like, I never did that. It's speculated that the two young boys were awake at the time, because they were found facedown. And Mark had had a football injury that required him to sleep on his back. The prosecutor even confirmed this fact at the trial. And you know, I, just, that's horrible, because whether it was Dawn or Butch, you know, these boys, these, you know,
• 24:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: They're innocent, and
• 25:00
  Trisha Smith: They're nine and 12 years old, they knew it. They knew it was one of the siblings that ended up shooting them in the back.
• 25:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, it's just crazy.
• 25:11
  Trisha Smith: And made them turn over onto their stomachs before they did it.
• 25:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, that to me, it's just at a different level than I'm capable of comprehending.
• 25:20
  Trisha Smith: Right. I mean, that, that's beyond psychotic.
• 25:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, I understand being, I mean, I don't understand, but I can, I can see how you could be so pissed at your mom and dad, that, especially if it's an abusive relationship. You know, I get it. You snapped one day.
• 25:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: But your brothers and your sisters. Because they're enduring the same abuse you are.
• 25:41
  Trisha Smith: And to, I mean, to go in in a rage and shoot them, you know, not justifiable, but
• 25:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: temporary insanity?
• 25:51
  Trisha Smith: Or just maybe being out of your mind, but to make, to go in, and they know you've got a gun, and you've made them roll over onto their stomachs. That's as, to me that's as cold blooded and as as bad as being premeditated.
• 26:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, absolutely.
• 26:10
  Trisha Smith: You know, to stand there and look them in the face.
• 26:13
  Trisha Smith: I just, can't even. Can't even.
• 26:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, by the way, I love you.
• 26:16
  Trisha Smith: Right. Butch said Dawn entered Alison's room next, where she shot her in the face with the rifle. And the author of that book thinks that she did it to ruin her face, like out of jealousy.
• 26:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: What?
• 26:35
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I know it doesn't get any better, for sure. So Butch said when he returned, Dawn was in her room on the third floor. And he was so pissed at what she had done to her, to their brothers and sister, that after arguing and wrestling for the rifle, Dawn had fallen down. He had, I think he had pushed her against the bed, and she was knocked unconscious. And that was when Butch decided to shoot her in the head.
• 27:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because at this point, did he participate in shooting the parents? or was that just Dawn?
• 27:07
  Trisha Smith: No, she did not shoot her parents at all.
• 27:10
  Trisha Smith: According to him, he shot
• 27:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: He shot the parents.
• 27:13
  Trisha Smith: his dad, or I don't remember if it was his dad or his mom, but his friend shot the other.
• 27:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 27:20
  Trisha Smith: Like, he participated in shooting his parents. He freely admits that.
• 27:22
  Trisha Smith: And his sister.
• 27:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 27:26
  Trisha Smith: The 18 year old sister, but he will not admit to
• 27:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Maybe because he's telling the truth.
• 27:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: shooting. If you're already admitting to some of it, why wouldn't you just admit to all of it? Why concoct a story?
• 27:39
  Trisha Smith: Right. It's just such a crazy story though.
• 27:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, yes.
• 27:43
  Trisha Smith: So he continued to blame the entire crime on his sister, even though the evidence clearly shows he was involved.
• 27:51
  Trisha Smith: But evidence also supports the claims that there was more than one gun and killer involved.
• 27:55
  Trisha Smith: Rick Osuna attempted to contact one of the friends that Butch had said was there the night of the murders. But it was rumored that he had entered a witness protection program for something unrelated to Amityville, while the other died on January 1 2001. The man, before he died, refused off, the author's request for an interview. I couldn't find their names anywhere.
• 28:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's interesting, isn't it?
• 28:20
  Trisha Smith: So I don't know if they're, you know, they were
• 28:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: I have no idea.
• 28:23
  Trisha Smith: Or she handled a gun that. I don't know. I don't officially named, if it was just, maybe they, it's not out there because they weren't formally charged with the crime?
• 28:32
  Trisha Smith: I don't know. But as far as the evidence concerning Dawn, Dawn's involvement, the post mortem exam revealed unburned powder burns on her nightgown, which supported Butch's claims. I don't know exactly what that means, unburned. Does that mean know exactly what that means.
• 28:45
  Trisha Smith: I'm not fluent in she handled a gun that hadn't been fired?
• 28:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Gunsmithery?
• 29:04
  Trisha Smith: Whatever that's called. Forensic-y talk? I'll have to ask, I should have asked my husband. It didn't even occur to me to ask what that meant.
• 29:17
  Trisha Smith: I'll ask when we're done.
• 29:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey, Don,
• 29:22
  Trisha Smith: What does this this mean?
• 29:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's funny.
• 29:28
  Trisha Smith: So Butch DeFeo's trial was an uphill battle from the get go. Just two months after the murders, his then attorney, Jacob Sigfried, motioned the court for, quote,"the right to examine, inspect, copy, photograph or make and take Photostatic copies of the original notes of the arresting officers, together with police reports containing statements of the witnesses." That sounds normal, right? Like,
• 29:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: I would think so.
• 30:00
  Trisha Smith: You would think that your, your attorney would say, I need everything associated with this crime.
• 30:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, that doesn't sound too far of a stretch to me.
• 30:10
  Trisha Smith: Not to me either.
• 30:10
  Trisha Smith: He insisted these items were crucial, but the court didn't believe they were necessary for Butch's defense.
• 30:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: What?
• 30:19
  Trisha Smith: Uh huh. And in March 1975, so just less than six months after the crime, the request was denied.
• 30:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: I guess it was just different times back then.
• 30:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Different times.
• 30:37
  Trisha Smith: It's kind of fitting. I mean,
• 30:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Different times.
• 30:40
  Trisha Smith: I just, when I read that, I couldn't believe it. Clearly, he's guilty.
• 30:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 30:46
  Trisha Smith: But to deny them, the photos and the evidence from the crime scene is just unbelievable to me. Why?
• 30:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: Why not?
• 30:57
  Trisha Smith: How do you go to trial without any of that information?
• 31:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, that's,
• 31:02
  Trisha Smith: So with few choices remaining, Sigfried filed a notice of defense of"mental disease or defect" for Butch.
• 31:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 31:11
  Trisha Smith: You know, trying to save his ass. Because the defense was denied an equal opportunity to have the same reports, records and photos that the prosecution had access to, it seemed the only choice left was an insanity plea. Although Butch didn't want his sanity questioned. Like, he was mad, and he was like, I'm not crazy.
• 31:29
  Trisha Smith: But with it looking like they were out of options, and after spending $40,000 on legal fees.
• 31:40
  Trisha Smith: Now, consider this is six months, this is less than six months after it started, he's already $40,000 in.
• 31:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: In the 70s.
• 31:47
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. And his grandfather was like, Nope, I'm done footing the bill, which meant Butch had to get a court appointed attorney.
• 31:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, geez.
• 31:56
  Trisha Smith: His grandfather had been paying his attorney fees. And he had hired a private investigator. And he was like, you know, I just can't do it anymore. Because
• 32:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 32:05
  Trisha Smith: You're guilty.
• 32:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, you did it.
• 32:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which he says he did it.
• 32:08
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, yeah. But he, you know, at least deserves a fair trial in the process. So on July 7 1975, William Weber was assigned to Butch DeFeo's case. And on August 1, the current presiding judge, Ernest Signorelli, granted a motion from Weber for copies of the reports and photographs in the prosecution's possession. But since he didn't receive the documents until the end of August,
• 32:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: So the new judge granted,
• 32:39
  Trisha Smith: There was a new judge, who was like, sure, you can have all those things. Seems right. The prosecution didn't turn it over until the end of August, and the trial was set to begin September 15. So he had two weeks to go through all of that information and build a case. It was later revealed that the prosecutor, Gerard Sullivan, oh, wait, let me back up. It came out earlier, before all of this happened, that Weber, William Weber, had been part of a committee or something that helped advocate to get Judge Signorelli on a different, in a different court room, or platform, or something like that. But nobody seemed to have a problem with it. Like the prosecution didn't say anything about it. Until this request for information. And then, right before the trial started, on September 15, the judge removed himself from the case. It was later revealed that the prosecutor, Gerard Sullivan, had an active role be, behind the judge dismissing himself, in order for the prosecution to get the judge they wanted. In his book, High Hopes, he said, "I had not finished maneuvering. I was about to engage in a time honored strategy that defense lawyers and prosecutors have honed into an art form. Some call it judge shopping."
• 34:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh my god. Geez.
• 34:14
  Trisha Smith: So when the trial was rescheduled for September 22 1975, so one week later, it was with Sullivan's judge of choice, Justice Thomas Stark. Because only been assigned the case in July and had only finally received the documents from the prosecution at the end of August, Weber asked for a 60 day adjournment to better prepare his case. Reasonable.
• 34:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Reasonable.
• 34:41
  Trisha Smith: Don't you think?
• 34:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: I do.
• 34:43
  Trisha Smith: I agree. He explained the private investigators findings about the possibility of multiple killers, weapons, accomplices, not being prosecuted, and with such an overwhelming amount of evidence, it seemed an adjournment would be appropriate. But even with as hard as he fought for his client, Justice Stark denied the request and ordered the jury selection to begin on October 6.
• 35:06
  Trisha Smith: Like I said, uphill battle from the beginning. It was like, they just all wanted to shut him up and put his away as fast as possible. Absolutely. Because it was clear Butch wasn't going to get a fair trial based on the evidence, they decided they'd need to choose an alternate route. This included persuading Butch to plead insanity pretending to have heard voices in the Amityville house, among other things. These were the beginning of the Amityville haunted house hoax. But he found it difficult to play along, and his testimony backfired when he admitted he hadn't heard the so called Voices the night of the murders. His attorney admitted that he had been approached to write a book even before the trial started. The attorney.
• 35:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: The prosecutor or defense?
• 36:00
  Trisha Smith: Defense.
• 36:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh,
• 36:02
  Trisha Smith: DeFeo's attorney had been approached.
• 36:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh. Okay.
• 36:06
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. So, it's all, your, you're like, dot to dot to dot.
• 36:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Start, starting to see a little correlation here.
• 36:15
  Trisha Smith: Another source said Weber convinced Butch that by pleading insanity, he'd get out in two or three years and he'd be rich from the book's success. Right. Needless to say, he was found guilty and was serving a life sentence in prison before his death on March 12 2021.
• 36:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow.
• 36:39
  Trisha Smith: So just a year ago, at the age of 69.
• 36:42
  Trisha Smith: Throughout the years, his story has changed multiple times, including a claim that the mafia killed his family.
• 36:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 36:49
  Trisha Smith: So the whole truth about the crime may never really be known, because he's just like,
• 36:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: He's flippin flopping.
• 36:57
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I found a lot of information about the Amityville case from a variety of sources. And most of them focus on the whole, "it's haunted", or "it's a hoax". But I found one website called Amityville murders dot com.
• 37:13
  https: //amityvillemurders.com And the author that I mentioned earlier, that had written the book? It's in conjunction with his book. So it's a really good one. It focused on all of it.
• 37:25
  https: The trial, the haunted part.
• 37:25
  https: That was my main source of information. It was really interesting, because it mentions a woman, in the book, who is another source. And there's a lot of letters and things like that, that were printed on the website, that she received and had access to. Her name is Geraldine DeFeo.
• 37:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Geraldine DeFeo?
• 37:51
  Trisha Smith: At first I thought, maybe, well, she must
• 37:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: What?
• 37:54
  Trisha Smith: It's really interesting, because, I mean, be a cousin or something. And then I read about her, and she you can see the letters that he writes to her. Like, she's in says she's the wife of Butch that no one knew about because she, they couldn't find a marriage certificate or anything like that, so she kept her identity hidden, to protect herself and their child.
• 38:25
  Trisha Smith: possession, she was in communication with him, all the way up until he died. And she never supported him, like she never came out and supported him, like not publicly.
• 38:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 38:37
  Trisha Smith: You know, and she never excused what he did, but they were married.
• 38:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: The hell?
• 38:42
  Trisha Smith: I know. She has so much knowledge of like, what he was going through at, you know, during, because he was writing her and telling her, you know, who to give money to, what to do about what his lawyer said about this, or that, or whatever. And he researched her to find out, you know, if she was telling the truth or not, and as far as they can tell, and he's had other people meet her, they think she's telling the truth. That that's who she really says she is. And she also knows his grandfather.
• 39:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh.
• 39:13
  Trisha Smith: So I have to say, you know, I was really impressed with how the author, Rick Osuna, was able to provide as much evidence as he did. If he speculated something, he always tried to back it up with a witness or some piece of evidence. And it's really involved. There's really no way to discuss how much, you know, is on there. Because there's a lot. He just, if you want to see crime scene photos, if you want to see court documents, if you want to see affidavits, or, you know, any type of police report, it's all on there.
• 39:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: Holy shit.
• 39:52
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. I highly recommend visiting his website, and I'm going to post the link so you can find it. In our show notes, because it's, if you want to see everything I just talked about, you can see it there. And it's, it's a lot. It's a lot.
• 40:10
  Trisha Smith: Even more interesting is his perspective on the haunting that supposedly occurred in the home.
• 40:15
  Trisha Smith: And so next week. Next week,
• 40:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Dang it.
• 40:22
  Trisha Smith: We're gonna get into that, and how that all started, because it links back to this trial, and DeFeo, and his attorney and just builds and builds and builds from there.
• 40:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: I've read something about it. So I'm very,
• 40:40
  Trisha Smith: There's no shortage, and there are multiple lawsuits that stem from that.
• 40:43
  Trisha Smith: So,
• 40:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: I never knew he was married.
• 40:48
  Trisha Smith: I didn't know either until I read that. And she provides a lot of information. Not just verbally.
• 40:55
  Trisha Smith: She hands over letters that you can read, and he's writing directly to her. He signs it, or he addresses it to her and signs it off with his name. So
• 41:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow.
• 41:07
  Trisha Smith: You know, whether or not they were legally married is one thing, but the fact that they had such a close relationship, there had to be something.
• 41:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, even if she was just, you know, the, if he was just the father of,
• 41:21
  Trisha Smith: Her child.
• 41:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Her child, That's still a connection.
• 41:24
  Trisha Smith: Exactly.
• 41:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know. I mean, it was the 70s, so it's not uncommon to have, you know, that love child. But it's interesting about the grandfather, that he didn't believe that his grandson was innocent. Which clearly he, you know, he admits, Butch admits that hey, I did do it, but I didn't do all of it.
• 41:50
  Trisha Smith: Right. I think for the grandfather, if he had just, like if he hadn't killed his, his daughter, you know, his only daughter. Which I had read that she could have married anybody.
• 42:01
  Trisha Smith: She was just a pretty woman from a really good family. And
• 42:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Clearly if he had, if, you know, he was the money man. I want to see those paintings.
• 42:13
  Trisha Smith: Oh, okay. I'll show them to you.
• 42:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: Alright. Super curious.
• 42:16
  Trisha Smith: All right. Well, let's go make another cocktail and I'll show those to you. And then we'll be back. I know. Do we need one more Cosmo? We'll be back next week to talk about the actual Amityville Horror Story.
• 42:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Damn, this is exciting.
• 42:35
  Trisha Smith: All right, until next week.
• 42:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cheers.
• 42:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cheers.
• 42:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey, like what you hear?
• 42:40
  Diane Black: Check us out on Instagram.
• 42:42
  https: //www.instagram.com/boozybanterwithfriends/
• 42:42
  Trisha Smith: Or send us a message at Boozy Banter with Friends dot com.
• 42:44
  Trisha Smith: https://boozybanterwithfriends.com
• 42:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Thanks for listening.
• 42:46
  Trisha Smith: Until next time.
• 42:48
  Diane Black: Later.