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Before Everything Was Recorded · Death Before Decay

• speaker-1: welcome to the Death Before Decay podcast. I'm Dr. Elliott Hummiston. This is a podcast by a dentist, but it's not necessarily about dentistry. This is a experimental episode for me. We've got a lot more people in this room than we normally have. And these are three guys that I enjoy experimenting with. speaker-0: Experimenting with that. speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-3: I've been camping. speaker-1: so normally we sit down with a guest, we explore the story. Today I'm joined by three of my oldest friends, and each one of them is been you've got Gavin, it's been over thirty years that you have been one of my closest friends. Spencer and Steven, you're at the quarter of a century mark, I think. Yeah. When did you move to Sheboygan? speaker-2: eight. speaker-1: Was it ninety seven or ninety eight? speaker-3: It would be nice. speaker-0: I moved in ninety eight speaker-2: I speaker-1: we're definitely full into the quarter century. If our relationship had a brain it would have been fully developed. speaker-3: I don't know with the amount of head trauma this group has I'm not sure it ever got fully developed. speaker-1: this is Gavin. See Gavin say hi. Hi. This is Spencer. Hello. And this is who would r prefer to remain anonymous. We'll just call him Steven for today. speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: Yeah, I like that name. Steven. speaker-2: Well, speaker-1: All right, so we have grown up together, probably closer than most friend groups, but we haven't all lived in the same place since two thousand five. Can you guys believe that? That's when you moved away. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: I was in Milwaukee at that time when Stephen moved back to Sheboygan. Mm-hmm. Spencer, you've been to Phoenix, Sheboygan, Phoenix, Sheboygan, Phoenix, Sheboygan. speaker-0: It all just depended on like how much like assistance I needed with like wiping my butt. speaker-2: Ha ha. speaker-0: I'd have to get injured and then I'd have to move back home with my mom. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: I recuperate and then I'd move back to Wisconsin and then speaker-1: It also it made that like our lives have changed so much, but we're s like as close as we are is pretty pretty cool. but this is also the first time that we've like hung out together where there wasn't a kid. In probably this we were this close. There we almost was a baby in here. but Steve Spencer left her in the car, so so speaker-2: And the A season. speaker-1: AC's on, everything's fine. speaker-0: Wonder it'd probably be worse to leave the windows cracked with all the smoke outside. speaker-2: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-1: To be clear, the baby is not in the car, that is a joke. I wanted to sit down with my friends, because the topic of my podcast, because I know you have been all listening to every episode as it comes out, correct? Okay. Perfect. Anyway, is that this is a journey and I wanted to talk about my journey and bring in three experts on that journey because you guys were there for most. speaker-2: Okay. speaker-1: and so today's gonna be kind of like I can't think of a more fitting way of kind of just handling this episode than just sitting around a campfire because the four of us have sat around a lot of campfires together. And speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: They were fi there was plenty of fires and speaker-0: Something was burning. I don't know. speaker-1: this whole thing actually started like going back, we were all part of the same church. I moved to Sheboygan in ninety-one and became friends with our friend Adam. and then Gavin, you moved to Sheboygan speaker-3: Ninety. speaker-1: in four. You said ninety Stephen, you said ninety six yeah. And Spencer was ninety. speaker-0: He was ninety eight. Really certain. speaker-2: Yeah, he was like the We speaker-1: when speaker-2: like round bottles like the same time. speaker-1: did Jared Jared is our other close friend, but he doesn't live in Wisconsin. Would be Jared. We miss you, Jared. We love you. He's alive. He is alive. speaker-3: Out of speaker-1: He lives outside the state. Jared. Did you send him a pizza? I did not send him a pizza. so when did Jared move to Sheboygan? speaker-3: It would have been around 2000. speaker-0: yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: I'm pretty sure. speaker-0: It must have been speaker-2: It was Weebelows. I'm pretty sure he was speaker-1: Like ten. speaker-2: yeah. speaker-3: Yeah, so that would have been ninety. speaker-0: He was in fifth grade at the same time I was at in fifth grade. I remember walking to school with him. speaker-3: So that'd be nine Yeah, that'd be two thousand, two thousand one area. speaker-1: Well, Jared's probably gonna text us in the group chat after this going, What the heck guys? Why don't you remember the exact date that I moved to Sheboygan? And we're sorry, Jared. But and then there was also your brother Patrick, who's kind of part of the crew. speaker-0: Yeah, the only reason why I'm friends with Steven is because Patrick. Steven wanted to hang out with Patrick, but Patrick had mono, so I was just like second best option. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-1: Actually I think that's how you and I speaker-0: Patrick's not free? What's Spencer doing? speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-1: Patrick was kind of the honorary big brother because he had a car. Yes. It speaker-3: Yeah. Wasn't it your call? speaker-2: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: was my car. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Patrick always drove like your dad would just buy a car for Patrick to drive. Anytime you want to go somewhere. speaker-1: we did a ton of camping growing up. Scouts was a huge part of things. growing up on Lake Michigan, and in the woods we did a lot of weird, dumb stuff. I don't think there's a lot of friend groups that can say that broadsword collections were an integral part of their their development and their growing up, but it was for ours. speaker-3: Absolutely. My kids were so my my nieces and nephews were over this week and Rourke wanted to find my whole sword collection. He's my my oldest son. So he was pulling out a couple swords and one of them is one of those old Bud K source Excaliburs that I got. speaker-2: One of my brothers. speaker-3: Yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-3: Yeah, that that's falling speaker-0: The palm ale. speaker-3: off it. So it's like speaker-1: Made a plastic, yeah, yeah. speaker-3: it's do not wield it. It's not worth it. speaker-1: There was paint a lot of playing paintball through the years. speaker-3: Where we did that? speaker-1: I mean I either way the statute of limitations is far beyond, but we played it at at the local community college. speaker-3: yeah, good. speaker-2: those running trails, dude. I used to see people like running. It's like, wait. no. They're not part of the game. speaker-0: At some point someone did ask permission and permission was granted to play paintball. Were we part of those people that permission was granted to? Maybe. speaker-1: I think it was your brother. speaker-2: Or his friends group. Yeah, 'cause they were the ones that introduced us to the area. speaker-1: Yeah. But do you guys remember what we called ourselves? Do you want to admit it? Yeah. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-2: I don't I don't remember. speaker-1: not the paintball. speaker-0: I know. speaker-3: I dun I don't remember the paintball name, but I remember the three-letter abbreviation for our group. It was TCT. speaker-1: Yeah, what was it? Yeah, and we had a l speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: we had a logo. We had a lo speaker-3: We did. Pretty speaker-2: god. speaker-3: rad like runge metal influenced in both color scheme and fun. speaker-1: It definitely was. It was red and black and I put it together on Microsoft Paint. speaker-3: Nice. speaker-2: And I actually still have that shirt. speaker-1: You have the t shirt? speaker-2: I still have the dude the print came off like all the red, but you can still see the black outline from where the red went on there. But I still have that shirt. speaker-1: I have the shoes still. speaker-0: Wait. speaker-2: See what seventeen hundred miles. speaker-3: I think I might have the flag 'cause you made a flag for it. speaker-1: The flag? I have a picture of the flag. So this one, okay. So the backstory here, like we I wanted to like legitimize us because there was always like some movie where it's like a group of guys and they had like a slogan like punks or teenage mutant ninja turtles. Yeah, speaker-3: Isn't there a Goonies poster in the room right over there? speaker-1: there is a yeah, yeah. So just that kind of idea, and I was like, all right, so what are we? And we're I'm like, We're the crazy teenagers, but T C T for short. speaker-2: Saturday morning has definitely had an influence on all that. speaker-1: And I got the shirts. speaker-2: I think it was you that made the head. speaker-1: Yeah, we're probably sure. speaker-2: Dude, they're actually the old Fruta Looms, man. That cotton's still great. I don't know what they made or not back in the early two thousands, but that's some quality material. speaker-0: Is there a cornucopia in the log? speaker-3: I say it never existed. Where it did. speaker-1: Yeah. we all wore them. And people would ask, D you even Gavin was the jock in school, he was a little cooler than the rest of us. speaker-2: Call my mom. speaker-0: Check it out. speaker-3: I need you to check my drawer. speaker-1: Did anyone ever ask you what it meant? speaker-3: I don't think so. They just there were so many weird logos on t-shirts back then and I was thinking about this earlier this week, like the varsity football forty two and all like just stupid things that people had on their shirts that were just bought at stores, so I'm not sure anyone knew that it was actually something. speaker-0: that was something. speaker-1: Does that make it more special that no one knew? speaker-3: I was able to keep it close to my heart. speaker-2: It was just for us guys. It wasn't about everybody else. speaker-1: do you remember Sister Grover telling us that we were like spiritual brothers rather than just friends? speaker-3: I don't remember that explicitly with regards to us, but I know that she did such a wonderful job. speaker-1: She was our one of our Sunday school teachers back in the day. speaker-3: And to to emphasize speaker-0: All right. speaker-2: But speaker-3: our theme of being crazy. speaker-1: Yeah, she she was the only one who co who would keep work with us, so she followed us for like years. Yeah. speaker-2: my mom, like nobody else wanted to deal with her. Cause like, you know, individually, you know, we're we're pretty big handful, but together we yeah, it got speaker-3: Nearly unmanageable. speaker-1: Yeah, they had to put bars on the windows 'cause me and Adam snuck out. See that's the problem. A lot of these stories was not all of us together necessarily. Yeah. Just pockets of each other. Like when we got all together, would be at Scout Camp, and that's when. Some of the most ridiculous stuff would happen. do you guys r remember when we ran a c there was a kid who we pulled up a tree? speaker-3: The first one I speaker-2: Yeah. Dude, your dad got so mad, and then he checked the knots, and then he left us to our device again. speaker-3: So this kid wasn't part of our group, but we were in a campsite with another scout troop and speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-3: he was Yeah, speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: he was he was pushing buttons with a lot of other people and he was a very undersized individual, so one of those ego was bigger than than the checks his body could write. And we had all taken, if memory serves, like rock climbing and stuff, so speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Route. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-0: Check out this sick rope swing, dude. Yeah, just sit in it like that. Hang on tight. speaker-3: We hoist him into that tree, probably fifteen feet, maybe. speaker-1: Was at least fifteen feet up. And then he started spitting on speaker-3: Not yet. First he was screaming and then someone took a sound bar. speaker-1: Awful. It was a Charleston chew and it was speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: And he pretended to start sawing at the rope with a candy bar wrapper. And the kid freaked out. So then we're like, Alright, that's enough. And we start to like untie it so that we can let him down and that's when he started sitting at it. speaker-1: Tag Delumi right on my head. speaker-0: Like another leader came up and was like, Come on, you guys, pull him down. And then saw these started spitting on us, and then he was like, Yeah, you know what? Just leave him. speaker-1: No, I think it was his leaders. It was one of his own leaders. speaker-2: Was it? Because I remember Gavin's dad like cause he was coming up pissed 'cause like, you know, screaming kids in the wood, he'd already had enough of our sh speaker-3: He had enough before he left the scout camp. speaker-1: You probably had to never paid. speaker-0: Hmm. speaker-2: I think the like the best part about the Boy Scouts though is like they're supposed to learn conservation and stuff like that and we always just wound up hayaking over live trees. speaker-1: What was the speaker-0: We boiled a way better shelter if we chap down this tree. Yeah speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: dude. yeah. speaker-1: What was the dumbest idea you think we ever came up with? speaker-3: There's competition there. speaker-1: Was it we were trying to I remember you and me and Gavin once tried to cross a river with our bicycles. speaker-3: Yeah, that I was not was not I am not a strong biker or a strong swimmer. So that ranks very close to the top of idiotic ideas for me. Was that Pigeon River right where it's opening up into Lake Michigan? speaker-0: I speaker-1: I mean speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: Could have been a girl. speaker-0: seem to remember like needing mountain dews out of the trunk of my brother's car when we were cruising up to River. yeah, dude. Steven happened to be wearing rollerblades, because why would you not be wearing rollerblades on a road trip? So we're like cruising down this country road. speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: Not going slow. And he's like, you know what, dude? I got this. He opens the door, in rollerblades, trench coat furling in the wind. speaker-2: Hold on a s car. Bob the trunk. speaker-3: Exactly. speaker-1: I mean, I think there is a there could be a category unto its own of the crappy cars your brother owned and the weird stuff we did in them. I remember the samurai whose roof came off if you went over forty miles an hour. I remember the car that didn't have a floor and the the seats were held were held up with ratchet straps because they were right on top of the fuel line. speaker-0: Yeah, that was my mom's car. Burgundy. speaker-2: Dude, I think that was more my rash is speaker-3: my god. speaker-2: Wasn't that a Volvo or something? Is that a like a speaker-0: I don't think so. speaker-2: I remember it was boxy and square, but that that was just like those nineties cars. speaker-1: Which is Which speaker-0: Which rack is for the speaker-1: concussion erased what type of car this was? speaker-0: I don't know. Seventh concussion. It was the one where I forgot how to do math. speaker-2: That was speaker-0: That was probably the worst one. I think I lost a lot there. speaker-2: Which one was the the detached retina? speaker-0: That one. speaker-1: What number? speaker-0: So I'm sure I've had more. Those are just like the ones where I got taken to the hospital. speaker-2: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: I'm having even ten. I wanna keep it there for like severe concussions. Yeah. I think that was actually my last number. That would that have been my last one? I think that might have been number ten. speaker-2: It's a good solid round. speaker-0: 'Cause that was when I had just gotten that was after my bicycle accident where I ripped myself open. speaker-3: I think that answers speaker-1: He ripped his nutsack open. Yes. speaker-3: that question. speaker-0: Stuff popped out. speaker-2: got talked back. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: If you pop your testicle out, don't tuck it back in yourself. Wait till you get to the hospital and let them do that. Because if you tuck it in yourself, there's a good chance you'll tuck it in twisted. speaker-1: Did you tuck it in twisted? Yeah. I forgot about it. speaker-0: It was like a a two hour kick in the nuts, just constant. but yeah after that and then I had just gotten like cleared after Steven used to drag me around town, I'd stand on his longboard. I was on the phone talking to my mom. She had called me and she's like in the process of yelling at me for needing to be more careful. Like you're so reckless, you know, like people care about you and all that And I hopped on my buddy's skateboard and looped out and yeah, knocked myself. So while my mom's yelling at me for being reckless and then just some random dude picked up the phone and was like, Hey kid's having some sort of seizure you might want to come pick him up speaker-2: You need it! speaker-1: Six. speaker-0: CRL it in, you line! speaker-3: No, don't call the ambulance. speaker-1: Right. Or when my mom was yelling at you to be more careful, and so you rode away on your bike and a deer came out of nowhere and T-bowed you. speaker-2: Yeah, speaker-0: All right. speaker-2: that was pretty. speaker-1: He didn't hit a deer, he got hit by the speaker-0: I know I was pretty reckless, but I there has to be some sort of bad luck. speaker-2: It was so majestic. It was starting to ride down the road, you know, you were riding next to it and then it just didn't it cut a left on you just out of nowhere? speaker-0: I thought I was just racing this deer and then it's like, No, guess what? speaker-2: Didn't even put on a blinger ridicule. speaker-1: dude, there was just there was a lot of like we were we grew up in a generation of LAN parties and video games and biking everywhere you wanted. and the soup the adult supervision was monitored by street lights or not there at all. speaker-0: I was unsupervised. speaker-2: I don't know. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-2: Like speaker-3: My parents had a very simple rule. When you come home, you get a word from them and you have to be able to tell it to them in the morning. That's it. That was that was our check-in. Like that didn't matter really when speaker-1: That is a true like recovering alcoholics like parenting advice right there. Like not you recovering but speaker-3: No, I was not the alcoholic. I I might be. I've never had a drink, so I wouldn't know. but speaker-1: I'm not overstepping that. Your dad's very open about that. Yes. speaker-3: Yes, very open about it. And his dedication to other people's recovery as well. speaker-1: Yes, yes. speaker-2: And his birds and the bees talks. speaker-1: In the middle of church. speaker-3: Technically the lesson was supposed to be on the law of chastity, so it makes sense that he would have brought it up. speaker-1: Yes, but that's when I found out orgasms were awesome. speaker-2: And I'm protected, Saxon. speaker-0: Gabin's dad taught me that. speaker-3: It was just But he told us that he would speaker-0: You know what? My scout leader told me. speaker-1: We'll just show it to our kids at their high school graduations. speaker-3: they'll show this at our funerals. but yeah, he t he taught us that unprotected sex feels much better. And the irony was someone after that said that was that was her favorite lesson that she ever got in church and two years later she was dropping out of school because she got pregnant. speaker-1: there was a big like transition point here. Like we have stayed really close for many, many years. and I would say the summer that I went into ninth grade, Steven and Spencer and Gavin were going into eighth grade 'cause my birthday's early, theirs is a little late. I wasn't gonna bring it up, but if you wanna you wanna just speaker-2: I got held back too 'cause I was home schooled and the transitioning does not work out so well. Yeah. speaker-1: Anyway, we were going into those grades and that was like the summers that we did the most ridiculous stuff. I remember like every movie we went and saw, because we just had to do some l yard work or landscaping for my parents, and they'd give us money and we'd go to the movies. Including the same night that we were drag racing in the minivan, we went and saw the Chronicles of Riddick, which remains one of my favorite movies of that time. started high school, then you guys all joined me in high school, and like finally my friend group is here, then Steven's parents decided to move away, and I remember being so bummed. And then for the rest of time of our friendship, Steven has just shown up when he wants to show up. speaker-2: Hey I'm in town, what's up? speaker-0: I'm like, what? speaker-3: We're in school. So give us two hours. speaker-2: man, walking around Sheboygan while you guys were in class was a pain man. I kept getting pulled over by the cops and it's like, aren't you supposed to be in class? Like No man, I'm from South Carolina and they just and the laugh flip on their lights and get out and I show my South Carolina ID and there's it's like yeah, what are you gonna do? Call the truancy officer? speaker-1: My my favorite thing was when Steven me I was skipping school for the first time. I went to Spencer's house because there was no parental supervision there. we picked up the we we stuck it in my parents' house, stole the DDR equipment, went to his house to play DDR, and Steven calls my phone, I'm like, What Steven's calling me? speaker-3: The Camelot Apartments? speaker-1: Yes. Yeah. That same apartments where Sheboygan had to get a SWAT team after a disturbance. speaker-0: You've left out the part where I had a fractured hip. speaker-2: We're playing D D R while I had a fracture. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: We'll do sandstorm at like ninety nine percent accuracy. speaker-1: But Steven calls and I pick up, I'm like, what's up? And he's like, hey man, I'm at the airport. Can pick me up? And I'm like, Y you're coming to visit? And he's yeah, didn't I tell you that? And I'm like, no. Like, well, I'm here. I'm like, you're lucky we skipped school. So we got in my Chevy prism. And that was before our GPS is. So we just waited till we saw a sign for General Mitchell speaker-0: Was that before he had the Tom Tom? speaker-1: before Tom Dom. Tom Dom. No one had a printer speaker-2: We didn't print out directions. speaker-1: that worked. speaker-0: dangerous in like Milwaukee and Chicago. Just trust speaker-1: They would put speaker-2: Came out. speaker-0: me, it just turned around. speaker-3: It would send you down right. That's speaker-2: It's like speaker-3: a pedestrian walkway. I said turn right. speaker-1: Do you think do you think part of like like we still stayed close but we were becoming pretty we were becoming different people, like and we are different people today than we were when we were little kids. speaker-3: Yeah, I mean you pointed out during Stephen's pretty much his speaker-0: Same. speaker-1: Ha ha ha. speaker-3: I will say Steven has matured in a lot of ways, but he has kept his Is it okay if I say anarchic speaker-1: He is consistent. speaker-3: That's a yes. But yeah, we were we were growing into more of who we would eventually become in high school, but even though we were taking ourselves in different directions, I was thinking about this. Elliot you were getting more into probably music. speaker-1: Very much so. speaker-3: Steven was getting into just like all all your hands on tinkering and like whatever you were doing with bikes and stuff. I'm whatever speaker-2: Trying to pull apart, you know? speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: biking is what I went through in my head with for for you as well. And then I was getting into, like you said, all those extracurriculars. but every Sunday, every Wednesday we would still come together and in summers we'd be going on those camp outs and speaker-1: Yeah, and even at lunch, I think we mostly sat together when we were at North North High School together. maybe occasionally we would sit with a different friend group, but largely we would congregate in the same area. I remember, you know, Cameron Fontaine being part of that and Ky good old Kyle Bartholomew. Mm-hmm. I'm saying it like he's dead, he's not, he's just a veterinarian now. Kyle's a veterinarian. Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: Let's see who else. Zach Schlater. He was a part of that a little bit on and off. speaker-1: And I don't want to name drop too much, but there was like a larger group of people, but like the core friend group, which was Adam, Gavin, Jared, Spencer, myself, Steven, and then Patrick and Chenu were and Patrick again always kind of filling in the you guys are idiots, like shiz. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: Big Brother Superv. speaker-1: Pretty much it. speaker-0: Drivers like. speaker-2: License. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: It is necessary. speaker-1: Steven, like what was it like leaving that group of friends? did it like hurt your like semblance of like self or like like cause you're the one who went through it first? speaker-2: Yeah, 'cause like right at the start of high school, I mean, I moved all the way across country to it. But yeah, moving away was kind of a kick in the knackers. You know, I was excited about some aspects like, you know, getting my driver's license early and stuff just because of the different legalities and from state to state and like but for the most part moving away it was it sucked. It was not great and I didn't bump into a lot of characters speaker-1: I think we can speaker-2: out there, more than a few unsavory ones, but speaker-1: Yeah. Not many people speaker-2: Yeah, five fire. speaker-1: have yeah, have been in part who know a guy from a murder documentary, but Steven does. speaker-2: I can I can pretty much tell you that I've been in that house before. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: But you know, it was it was interesting moving away and coming back. I mean, it was there's definitely a lot of latter era things that, you know, like you guys talk about so I recognize the names and the scenarios and stuff, but I really wasn't there except for, you know, like when I just randomly pop in the tone. speaker-1: Th I think that's a big thing I think we can all agree that we've never had friendships as close as ours with anyone else. speaker-2: No, no. speaker-0: I don't have friends. speaker-1: no. Gavin speaker-2: Aww. speaker-1: Gavin was popular in high school. Gavin, can you agree with this? speaker-3: probably because even when I speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: De definitely the these are the longest lasting friendships I've had. And even the friendships that I did have in high school that didn't include you guys, they ended up at some point. 'Cause you had you had a a little bit of mix in with the the drama group. Spencer, your birthday was the same day as my first girlfriend, so you ended up we'd have a we had a dual birthday party that one summer. so you ended up getting involved with that. and we were all in wh which class was that? Western civilization? No, the one before Afroasian history. speaker-0: One. speaker-3: No, not the English class. Freshman speaker-1: Ha ha ha. speaker-3: year. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: yeah. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. There's so many mem like the memories are still in there. It just takes a little bit of prying to get to speaker-3: Well, you gotta get through ten conditions. speaker-1: No. speaker-3: There's a roadblock, you gotta get rounded ten clubs through speaker-0: How do you get there? speaker-3: it. speaker-1: It's there. speaker-3: So yeah, I mean the speaker-0: Tom tom navigate me to my regressed memories. speaker-3: Yeah, MapQuest stopped working. Google Maps can't work in there. but yeah, I'd say that this is the longest lasting and definitely has the most memories, probably the most I'll say physical trauma out of everything. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, think about a lot of friendships start in high school or end in high school. Ours started in early elementary and a lot of people have a friend from their early years. We've got four or five that you're we're we still talk to regularly. there do you guys remember playing Quidditch in my bag? Yeah. You speaker-3: I wasn't gonna bring that up. speaker-1: can well okay. Let's bring up Quidditch. speaker-3: All right. So that was hula hoops that you had hanging from the trees, right? No. speaker-1: No, we took me and Spencer and Steven took apart my parents' trampoline net system around it because we realized we were getting injured more often with the net up. speaker-0: Gives you something to jump over. speaker-2: Or you get hung up in it weird and it slams you into the corners. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Turns out it w it didn't end up well. speaker-3: Yes, you could do it once. speaker-1: Or the time he did a triple fit, flippin gave himself his a black eye, his knee his eye. speaker-3: It ended my first college roommate, he did the same thing the week before we reported to school and he shows up with his massive black eye. speaker-1: But we took so we took the post, we put it there, and then we took fifty the big like ten gallon, fifty gallon or ten gallon buckets from Home Depot and drilled holes through it. And that was the hoops because we didn't have holo hoops, we just used what we had. speaker-3: Hm. speaker-1: I think we were really good about being crafty and making our own fun. But my mom told me she's like, Yeah, I got a call from one of your your friends' dads that he were That his son was wearing wizard's w robes and holding a broom and said he needed to go to Quit and Prague. Yeah, speaker-2: I'm pretty sure there were orange robes. I the orange robes. speaker-1: we made them out of robe fluorine, like sheets and stuff like that. speaker-3: Yeah. I I admit fondly remembering that. So I also had an opportunity in college to put on a Quidditch yeah, a whole day of Quidditch in the in the commons. And I definitely delved into my teenage years to be like, what did we do when in Elliot's backyard speaker-1: yeah. speaker-2: gotta look back for the inspiration. speaker-3: But I actually had a budget to put it on. speaker-1: my god. speaker-2: Much easy. speaker-0: Easier that would have been if we didn't have like brooms. Like around speaker-2: Yes, speaker-0: on a broom. Like you take that out of there and it's like speaker-1: It wouldn't just that look. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-2: Okay. speaker-1: But I think the brooms kept us from just body checking each other. speaker-2: He's s you out of the speaker-3: Yeah, if you charge someone that's got a broom pointed at your crotch as well. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. Maybe. Depends. speaker-1: I don't know. I just think it's cool because now, you know, Gavin and Spencer have kids and their kids are friends with each other. I'm having a kid. Steven, you don't have any kids that you know of out there. speaker-2: I definitely don't have it. speaker-1: but that you know, you'll always be the kid's Uncle Doobie. speaker-3: You're definitely one of my kids' favorite uncles. speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-2: Just odd 'cause I mean w I've spent some time, you know, like at an Elliot's house, you know, just doing the whole family activities thing. So I don't know, like speaker-3: They very much enjoyed you blowing up that air the speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Back. speaker-3: airbag from the the car. speaker-2: yeah, speaker-1: Why do you think with like we all became such different people than we were when we were like the nine-year-old's versions of ourselves were very much aligned in interests and priorities? And as we got older, we became different people. But why do you and that and like I said, most friendships either start in high school and then end later or they continue on, or they end there. Why do you think our space was able to start so early and never end it. speaker-3: Mean you brought up Sister Grover earlier, talking about how we're we're more than just friends. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: and I do think that having that upbringing all together, there was a little bit of a delay with some of us coming in, a little bit of an earlier departure. but that effort was consistently made to stay together even after those Steven, you moved away and Spencer, you moved away. So I do think sharing those formative years was incredibly critical to that. speaker-1: You know what that may like at first I was thinking it was just shared trauma. speaker-3: I definitely the first thing I thought of was Trump. speaker-1: Ha ha ha! speaker-0: That's what I was gonna say. speaker-2: Actually had speaker-0: Your explanation was far more eloquent. speaker-3: I w like like I said, first thing that came to my mind was we just had so much trauma that was together. But there are a lot of people that share trauma and they don't stay together quite the same. So the maybe it's the combination of the soul. speaker-1: Maybe it's Sister Grover. So here's the story with Sister Grover. Phyllis Grover was one of the most wonderful human beings I've ever met in my entire life. And she dealt with the seven of us with grace, compassion, and understanding when no one else would. speaker-2: A lot of sternness. speaker-1: Even even then she wasn't mean about it. speaker-2: You saw. speaker-3: No, it it was firm but not not speaker-1: And in our chur the church we grew up in, every year that you move up you get a new teacher. We never got a new teacher. Sister Grover just followed us all the way through to like I think we were fourteen before they switched us to Adam's mom. speaker-2: Yeah, I think we had speaker-3: I remember we Brother La Mentia for a little bit. I think that was speaker-1: Remember that. Was that young manzer primary? speaker-3: that would have been that would have been Sunday school. but I remember talking with him about drifting in Super Mario no, Mario Kart sixty four. Okay. so th that that's my main thing for that. But but yeah, she she followed us and was incredibly important to all of our developments, I think. speaker-1: Yeah, and that like idea of togetherness with her was l maybe that's part of it. I mean, Steven, you would have never found out about marijuana if it wasn't for Sister Grover showing it to us in church. speaker-3: Yeah, that's right. speaker-2: I never would have reminded that unless you reminded me about it because like they actually like clicked l like years later and I'm like wait dude speaker-1: Sister Grover brought weed to wart the church. speaker-2: And then and then it dawned on me, it's like no that's what her house smells. speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-3: It wasn't until after I came back from college and I walked into our high school through the drama entrance the over by the auditorium and I take two steps in and I stop and I turn and I look at the the kids that are standing there and I'm like, that's what that smell is. All through high school I thought it was unwashed bodies. And then it turns out it it was the devil's lettuce. speaker-2: The electric list. speaker-1: What did she tell us to do with it? I can't even remember. speaker-2: If we got injured or something out in the woods and we found this plant to eat some of it, something like that. Yeah. Probably in a green yard. speaker-3: Up in Canada. speaker-1: And you know what? The adults found out about it and they Phyllis, where did you get this? I just found it growing in my yard. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, like years I believed that for a long time and now I'm like You go Phyllis. speaker-2: Yeah, so that's probably speaker-1: I think one other thing that kept us from pulling apart is effort put in. Like we always made effort to see each other as often and as much as our schedules would allow. I mean, Spencer moved to Phoenix, Arizona, and Spencer Steven and I still spent time on his couch for random times in speaker-0: I think I spent more time at your guys' house growing up than I did my own. speaker-1: That makes sense. speaker-0: I mean speaker-2: It was pretty fifty fifty for me and that yours cause your house was so much more legit. speaker-1: Mine? Or Spencer's? speaker-2: bit of both, but Spencer's, like I mean, just like the chaos. Yeah, it's speaker-1: Supervision. speaker-2: a speaker-3: Again, anarchy. speaker-2: No speaker-0: Like I had a a cool house. speaker-1: Do you guys if anyone listening to this, w has probably seen some like eighties like kid group movies where they have like a secret hideout, hang out like area that's got like dirt piles and jumps and this and that and like that doesn't exist in real life and it was like next to train tracks. It did exist. It existed behind Spencer. speaker-2: It was speaker-0: System. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: There was that one night that we were like all spending at your house and we just dug a hole at the base of that tree all night. And then we tried to cover it with a little bit of cardboard and some thin sticks so one of your brothers, I don't even remember who we were laying it for, would come out the next morning and fall into that thing ended up being what, six? speaker-2: there was it was such a great scene. speaker-1: I mean what it really ended up speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, I was condemned. speaker-1: Okay that I was. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: What we're talking a lot about like kind of what made our childhood interesting. W none of us okay, so my parents my family was well off, but they didn't like spending money, so it's not like we had every video game to play. So we would make our own fun, even when you would come to my house. if you went to Spencer's house, you could make a lot of fun because no one was watching. speaker-2: Okay. speaker-1: We didn't do a lot at Steven's because usually his mom was home. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-0: A lot of golden eye at Steven's house. Yeah. speaker-1: A lot of M64 if your brothers weren't watching. Yeah. speaker-2: Or being dicks. speaker-1: Gavin's house, if you went to Gavin's house, his dad would put you to work. So we didn't go to Gavin's house. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-1: But do you guys I like I was trying to think of it and I'm like, when did it was like the changing point for me on like how when I started really thinking about this relationship and this friendship differently? And I started thinking like as well, these are my adult friends, not just my childhood friends, was my wedding. Cause You weren't there. You skipped it. speaker-3: It wasn't a standard skip. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. You were you were doing the Lord's work. Spencer and Steven were there. Spencer let the Spencer let the liquor do the talking. speaker-2: Much better than mine, man. So speaker-1: it was it okay. speaker-2: this is all emotion and fun thing. I was gonna say it and I'm like, the one I hate. Well as we go. speaker-0: Let's just make this up. speaker-1: Steven has note cards. He's going through this heartfelt, like I could tell he put a lot of of effort into it. And Spencer just gets up and just keeps keeps saying, These guys, man, like we knew about time, these guys, these guys, these guys. speaker-2: these guys. speaker-1: And then do you remember what I said to you? speaker-0: Dude speaker-1: I said, dude, your mom looks pissed. yeah. speaker-0: Isn't that how I finished that that speech? speaker-1: Yes. speaker-2: Sorry, sorry man. speaker-1: But that's when like things I I felt like things started to change. Like my like I couldn't just hang out with my buddies all the time anymore. I had a family. I was working towards a career for the first time. Spencer was not living on someone's couch anymore for the first time. You had an apartment that you paid rent on. Yeah. speaker-0: Wild. speaker-2: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Gavin was out doing the Lord's work. speaker-3: It like speaker-0: thirty dollars a month or something speaker-1: Ha ha. speaker-3: How? speaker-2: Have you been speaker-0: like that. speaker-2: have you seen that apartment? speaker-0: This is the first apartment complex built in Sheboygan. speaker-2: That L was grand speaker-1: One of the better apartments in that building though. speaker-0: Yeah, the corner one was sweet 'cause it used to be two apartments that they turned into one. speaker-1: And the beautiful view over the lake. Yeah. speaker-3: It was a tall for that area, tall building near at the top of a hill. Everything was downhill from there. So you get up there and you had that beautiful view of sunrise and everything. It was gorgeous. speaker-1: My my my view on Steven being like a functioning an adult who knew how to do things was like like reinforced when he pulled up in a car that shouldn't be able to run anymore and somehow he had it running. speaker-2: man, I brought so many cars back from the brink, but speaker-1: That car committed suicide as soon as you got it back to South Carolina. yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, something blew in the wiring harness and like the whole dash quit working, half the lights stopped working. Sometimes you like stitched taking literally stitched down there. speaker-0: Your centra that we stitched together out of two centras together. speaker-2: Dude, you remember when we swapped the engine, but it was the rustier one, so we couldn't get the shift linkage on there. So like I'm now I'm in this habit where like I never pull into a spot where I have to back out because like the shift linkage was busted. Yeah. speaker-3: You'd backed into your spot in the dri in the parking lot. speaker-2: It's a weird habit I got now, but because like I'd actually have to get out of my car, put it into park, get in my car, start my car, wedge on the e-brake with like a sh like a baseball bat, get out of my car, put it into drive in the engine compartment. speaker-1: These were all things that were acceptable to us. speaker-2: I eventually got so good at it, I stopped using the T-ball back because I could just shift it into drive and while it's passing me. I just jump in and shut the door. speaker-1: but yeah, that's kind of when I started to feel like an adult. with speaker-3: With that story. speaker-1: that story. When did you guys start to feel like that that whole thing shifted? speaker-3: Yeah, probably around that time as well, because you'd spent, was it a year or two years out at University of Utah? speaker-1: so I've spent one year at Southern Utah University. I spent more time at Spencer's house than I did in class. speaker-3: So then you would have come back, spent a couple of years touring with your band speaker-1: Okay. speaker-3: Spencer, you'd been bouncing around and then you were starting to settle down, Steven you you were doing your speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-3: We we we settled on the term gypsy for you before this, right? speaker-1: Yeah, Vagabonds don't have odd and ed jobs. Gypsies do. Yeah. speaker-2: They're they're tradesmen. speaker-3: And I use the term transient, but you really do have your home base and then you come out and do something and then you circle back. So yeah. So you speaker-2: I mean I g I got a place out in Ork County right now. It's all paid up for the summer. So it's not like speaker-3: But yeah, it it wasn't that we were that much different, but it's that each of us had done something that we were able to recognize as this is adulthood. It's not that we're you have given up. I did. Yeah. Yeah. I've I've bought a degree. You had a degree. I did. Double major even. speaker-1: First person speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: I passed my first English class last year. speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: Okay, Spencer suffers from lyslexia. Life gives him melons all the time. and so that that is a a great accomplishment. Our English teacher, the other class that we had together, told him one time that she she missed the times when he would sleep through class. speaker-2: She yelled at me for all the time. You're never gonna learn anything if you sleep through class. Awake. speaker-0: sleeping through class class all the time. Like, all right, fine, I'll stay awake. speaker-3: Yeah. speaker-0: Miss when you used to sleep. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-3: So yeah. So we were we were all still we had our wild side, we had our childishness, we had the things that we would still do that were ridiculous, but we recognized that there were responsibilities that we needed to take care of before those other things. speaker-1: Yeah, I would agree. I think like different things like happen, different things shaped our adulthood. we had we started to move forward in different ways. you know, but what's really what has what I hope never changes is that when we get together, it's like not even a day has passed. I think the prime example of that, even today, is when Jared comes to visit and we're Exactly the same and sending dick pics to each. speaker-3: Okay, my first thought was Richard Nixon. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Willem Default. speaker-2: you guys that was a group chat to wake up to and speaker-1: Steven speaker-3: What do Since it's Willem Defoe, you did have to s fight a speaker-2: Yeah, you gotta you gotta scroll a ways to get rid that. And I just started sending repeat messages of gobbledygook. It's like nah dude, I want that way farther. speaker-3: I send need send this send to send go send away send send send send speaker-2: Yeah, pretty much. speaker-1: Yeah. But I I I I don't know. I hope that never changes. I mean, we've got two guys who are who've been parents for a long time and neither one of you guys have you've your priorities have probably changed, but you haven't changed. speaker-3: Yeah, I I really do think that's what being an an adult really is about. it's seeing those responsibilities and taking care of them first. That's maturing. It's not thinking I have to change everything about me. It's I need to take care of my family first and then I can do the fun stuff. speaker-1: What's something from our childhood that you hope our kids maybe what's one thing from our childhood that you don't that you think our our kids generation is missing out on? Steven. speaker-2: Being snitches. I speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: took the ball for so much. speaker-1: Ha ha. Ha ha ha. speaker-3: But everything's recorded now, so speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: People speaker-2: People would assume that I wouldn't correct. speaker-0: Done with my walk thing with Steven. I mean speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-2: He's in South Carolina. Yeah, I was an easy target. You know, it was cool, but you know, I mean I definitely made an effort to get back up here as much as possible, even as whimsical as it was most of the occurrences. speaker-1: Did you just like wake up one day and be I think I'll go to Wisconsin? speaker-2: no, it was more like, you know, my brother's going to college, he's gonna be passing by, someone else is flying this random flight coupon, you know? speaker-3: That sounds whimsical to me. speaker-1: What's one thing you think our kids are s are missing out on that that we had? speaker-0: All of my kids have been to the ER so speaker-1: Yeah, your kids are catching up. Billy hasn't. speaker-0: True. She'll get there. speaker-3: My youngest is going enough for everyone. speaker-2: He had a rough couple of weeks. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-3: Okay, so he first we got new counters at my mother-in-law's house. And the first day I get speaker-2: Yeah, speaker-1: Your house. speaker-3: kind of we we moved in. There's a long story behind that. You don't need everything yet. so first day with these counters and my son speaker-1: Episode two. speaker-3: my son knocks his face into it. He tried to stand on one of the chairs and slipped, fell, and bit through his lips. So he was at Child's Children's Hospital of Milwaukee, like right away. and then last week he trips on the pool deck and slammed his face into the ground and was just all cut up all along his nose and stuff. So yeah, he's had a rough couple months. But I think I think our kids are probably missing out on r true free play, where it's n the the only rule they actually have is get out of this house and I don't wanna see you until it's time to go to bed. speaker-0: Have come hang out at my house. I don't know where my kids are half the time. speaker-1: But even speaker-3: Even when we kick our kids out of the house and and try and get to just do stuff, they spend their entire time making rules and arguing over things instead of just playing. speaker-1: Yeah, we so many of the things that we did, there was no rules. Like we had something called sleeping bag wars. Do you remember sleeping bag wars? Hang on, answer more. speaker-2: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Stephen, do you remember sleeping bag wars? Do you want to describe it for people? speaker-2: Yeah. bags on the trampoline, like more it just utter chaos. speaker-1: Yeah, we were just drop kicking each other over and over and speaker-3: Picture Caterpillar WWE. It's kinda speaker-1: I found a photo of one of us in a sleeping bag fully horizontal at least six feet above the trampoline about to r land on another person. speaker-3: So speaker-2: Yeah yeah double speaker-0: Gotta speaker-2: jump. yeah. Back when you actually had to like take your cameras in, you know, like the film, get it developed so we like we actually got the the prints, you know. speaker-3: Our age is showing speaker-1: Well the I think I think the thing that our kids is gonna miss out on is the discovery process of a lot of things. I actually talked to the Andrew Jacos on an episode Who Owns the Skate Shop in Town? Like back in the day you had to wait for a magazine to come out or some sort of like skater's videos to come out to see how to do the next trick. we had to figure out a lot of things. We didn't have the internet, we didn't have like we had we could go Yeah. But but you know, we've relied on magazines or just general ideas from older brothers or older siblings on how to do things. speaker-3: I remember my speaker-1: Hey speaker-3: I remember in the late nineties. speaker-1: hey, one of your siblings runs a cult now. speaker-3: Managers. Managers. speaker-0: Come now for speaker-2: Maybe. speaker-1: what I'm saying is like we had to figure things out on our own. No one's gonna teach us how to play Quidditch. We made speaker-3: Okay, we had seven books teaching us how to play speaker-1: But like setting up like rules without flying broomsticks. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Remember I won this Harry Potter for Halloween? Like but this is before the movies. And everyone's like you. speaker-2: What the heck are you? Then like the next year like the movie and I know exactly. speaker-1: We like we figured out how to broadsword fight. Granted we had the Laman Tia's teaching us fencing at at Sher. speaker-3: Your sister was good at it. She team cap speaker-0: Yeah, she was actually like yeah, she was team captain in college. Yeah. speaker-1: And then she had a speaker-2: Baby sister saber whipping me. speaker-1: Yeah, she was speaker-3: You deserve it. speaker-2: Nah though she got me in the neck and like went down my back, dude. It's like wham! speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: That's good technique with with fencing is to use the whip of the foil to bend around someone else's speaker-2: It wasn't a straight foil, it was actually a save that you're supposed to finish fighting with. speaker-1: Yeah, they have a whip to but yeah, we had to figure things out. We would get ideas from magazines, from T V shows, from this or that. But there wasn't like we could like pull up a how to tutorial on anything. You couldn't go to YouTube and look up things. speaker-2: This is back like, you know, before even people would be like, Google it like that. That wasn't a thing back when we were kids. speaker-1: I think that's what that's what our generation is gonna miss out on. So that's why I'm gonna speaker-0: You want to drive across country? Here's a road atlas. speaker-3: I I've been talking to my kids about road atlases the last couple weeks and I honestly do miss them. There was just something so fulfilling about planning a trip, looking at an atlas and having like the whole fifty state atlas that you just paid through and you're like, okay, I'm in Wisconsin, I've got to get speaker-0: The the driver's. speaker-2: See you. speaker-3: and then you flip to the next state and you're like, Okay, Iowa, where are we going through here? And then going all the way. Yeah. No. speaker-2: Do we have to go through Nebraska? speaker-1: And maybe maybe these aren't things that are important. Like we the like are are the next generation's gonna figure out problem solving in their own way. But it is something that like I look back on fondly of us like just figuring things out on our own, using using the s I mean heck, the scout book was how we learned how to do some of the things that we did. Like you opened your scout manual to figure out how to build something or to use certain tools. speaker-2: Yeah. I mean just the back and having idea, running with it, actually experimenting with it, you know. speaker-1: You had to break a lot of bones before you figured stuff out. speaker-2: Yeah, seriously. There speaker-3: Break a bone until college. speaker-2: wasn't that free speaker-1: Let us do it. speaker-3: Yes, thank you. Spencer specifically I broke a lot of bones. speaker-1: Broken nine fingers, both wrists, an arm, a couple ribs. You've broken more, I know. It's not a common speaker-3: I've just got a collarbone. speaker-0: I never I never broke any like well I've like fractured but I never like broke broke any speaker-1: It counts. Compound fractures, no. Yeah. speaker-3: Nothing stabbed through the skin. speaker-0: My oldest son, he snapped his arm real good and that was probably speaker-1: All right. Well, this has been a fun episode. I'm gonna wrap it up here. but I wanna end it by with what is brotherhood, what is the friendship like us mean in just a couple of words, Gavin. speaker-3: So we've talked a lot of crap about my dad in this episode. And speaker-1: I actually haven't I've been purposefully avoiding it. speaker-3: and I w I was going to touch on speaker-2: That's a lot speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: And that's the thing. And and I I I get this like whenever I'm sharing in church discussions and stuff, I will frequently use my dad as a bad example, but I always try and bring it back around. So a good thing that my dad said is a friend is one with whom you can be yourself. Yep. And I feel like when we get together, we tend to just let our guard down and be fairly natural about what comes into our head. We don't feel like we need to filter it or Or shroud it or hide it. and I think that's what the this friendship and these crazy teens are about. speaker-1: Yes. That was poetic. We're gonna let it go there. speaker-0: I don't think I'd ever share dick pics with any other group of guys. speaker-1: I never would. speaker-0: Like not not not my dick pic, but just like speaker-3: Okay, but there were speaker-2: Check out the shot on the list of dictators. speaker-1: This has been another episode of the Death Before Decay podcast with Dr. Elliott. Thank you, everybody.