Latest / MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast / MC Fireside Chats - October 28th, 2026

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MC Fireside Chats - October 28th, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

• 0:46
  Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 0:48
  Brian Searl: My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground.
• 0:51
  Brian Searl: Maybe I'm back in my studio, maybe I'm not, I have no idea.
• 0:54
  Brian Searl: Uh, still trying to hack together my computer.
• 0:56
  Brian Searl: I've been doing the show on my phone all summer long, and now it's snowing outside here in Calgary.
• 1:01
  Brian Searl: So I'm back up here trying to make this thing work.
• 1:04
  Brian Searl: Uh, so we'll see how it goes.
• 1:05
  Brian Searl: I have, uh, you know, my camera in front of me that's working.
• 1:08
  Brian Searl: Apparently my mic's working, hopefully you guys can hear me.
• 1:10
  Brian Searl: If you can't hear me, then the show will probably be better with our guests just talking.
• 1:13
  Brian Searl: Uh, but o- otherwise, I've got this monitor right in front of me on my phone 'cause I don't have another one hooked up yet.
• 1:18
  Brian Searl: So, uh, it'll be an interesting show today.
• 1:20
  Brian Searl: We'll have fun, some good conversations, and we'll see, uh, if anything doesn't end in disaster on my side.
• 1:24
  Brian Searl: But welcome everybody to, uh, MC Fireside Chats.
• 1:27
  Brian Searl: It's our week four recurring guests here, uh, for our AI show.
• 1:31
  Brian Searl: We've got, uh, Matt Whittemore, who's, uh, our only sole recurring guest that we have here.
• 1:36
  Brian Searl: I mean, Sarah's a new one.
• 1:37
  Brian Searl: She's gonna be on the show every week for now.
• 1:40
  Brian Searl: But, uh, e- everybody else must be busy going to, I don't know, OHI, traveling around, doing stuff.
• 1:44
  Brian Searl: You think it's cold, they would be inside, right Matt?
• 1:48
  Matt Whitermore: Syracuse is, like, 29 degrees this morning, so-
• 1:51
  Sarah Stahl: What?
• 1:52
  Brian Searl: I don't know what 29 degrees means.
• 1:54
  Brian Searl: Like I assume you all are 29 degrees, aren't you?
• 1:56
  Sarah Stahl: Cold.
• 1:56
  Brian Searl: The rest of the world is different.
• 1:58
  Sarah Stahl: Everything is cold.
• 1:58
  Matt Whitermore: Yes.
• 1:59
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 2:00
  Brian Searl: It's cold up here, too, but, uh...
• 2:02
  Brian Searl: It was yesterday I was g- I was in a race.
• 2:04
  Brian Searl: I know this is a first world problem.
• 2:05
  Brian Searl: I was in a race to fill my hot tub before it got too cold so the water would heat up.
• 2:09
  Brian Searl: I had to have the, the thing repaired outside.
• 2:12
  Brian Searl: So it's a first world problem, but I still understand the cold.
• 2:16
  Brian Searl: Snow's all over the place, so.
• 2:18
  Brian Searl: I don't get-
• 2:19
  Sarah Stahl: That time it's, like, 76 here.
• 2:21
  Brian Searl: It's 76.
• 2:22
  Brian Searl: Wait, but you're in northern Alabama you said before the show started, right?
• 2:25
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Sarah Stahl: Yes, I don't have that problem.
• 2:27
  Brian Searl: Yeah, but there's pros and cons to both, let's be clear.
• 2:29
  Brian Searl: Like, I like going snowshoeing in the winter.
• 2:32
  Brian Searl: Uh, Calgary is the sunniest major city in North America, I think.
• 2:35
  Brian Searl: Maybe Canada.
• 2:36
  Brian Searl: Oh.
• 2:37
  Sarah Stahl: It's not bad.
• 2:37
  Brian Searl: Uh, so we have blue skies and sunshine all winter.
• 2:39
  Brian Searl: It's not like the gray.
• 2:40
  Brian Searl: Like I grew up in Ohio- Yeah it was terrible and gray and miserable, and you're like, "Uh, I don't know if I like this."
• 2:46
  Brian Searl: Uh, I like this, so I'm happy.
• 2:49
  Brian Searl: Um, but in- please introduce yourself, Sarah
• 2:53
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah.
• 2:53
  Sarah Stahl: So my name's already on the screen.
• 2:55
  Sarah Stahl: Um, I'm a hospitality marketing strategist.
• 2:58
  Sarah Stahl: That's my entire thing.
• 2:59
  Sarah Stahl: Um, real quick, over the past decade, I've worked in tourism, a startup treehouse resort, and inside of an OTA, so I've seen just about every angle of the industry that one can see.
• 3:10
  Sarah Stahl: Um, and so now I'm working independently to help outdoor hospitality operators grow their direct demand two ways.
• 3:19
  Sarah Stahl: So one of the ways is through creative marketing systems, and the other is cleaning up your tech systems.
• 3:25
  Sarah Stahl: Absolutely love what I get to do, and happy to be here with you guys today.
• 3:29
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 3:30
  Brian Searl: Well, thank you guys for, thank you for being here.
• 3:31
  Brian Searl: I appreciate it.
• 3:32
  Brian Searl: Like, I, I'm, I'm really interested in, I think, your unique take on the industry coming from that perspective.
• 3:36
  Brian Searl: We've got a lot of, you know...
• 3:38
  Brian Searl: I, I have a background in campground and RV park marketing, right?
• 3:40
  Brian Searl: I'm trying to run away from it as fast as I can 'cause AI's gonna eat it all.
• 3:44
  Brian Searl: But and then we've got really great, some really great other companies who have been on here who also do marketing in the space.
• 3:49
  Brian Searl: Uh, but I'm interested to hear a perspective of, you know, the people who have been doing it from the vacation rental side, have a different perspective on things, especially in the, you know, working in all the worlds that
• 3:57
  Brian Searl: you just said.
• 3:58
  Brian Searl: Uh, so interested to, to kind of grow and learn from you and see what your perspective is on things.
• 4:02
  Brian Searl: Um, Matt, I don't think I gave you a chance to introduce yourself before I moved on and called Sarah only recurring-
• 4:07
  Matt Whitermore: That's okay
• 4:08
  Brian Searl: so go ahead, man.
• 4:08
  Matt Whitermore: Nobody needs to know.
• 4:10
  Matt Whitermore: Uh, no, Matt Whittemore, managing director at Travo.
• 4:13
  Matt Whitermore: Um, we are a commercial real estate AI shop.
• 4:17
  Matt Whitermore: Uh, got our hands in a bunch of different things.
• 4:20
  Matt Whitermore: We are scaling up a commercial real estate brokerage, and I've had a lot of fun over the last few months working on, uh, site selection work, acquisitions work, uh, both in the RV and campground space, but also, uh,
• 4:34
  Matt Whitermore: for glamping developers.
• 4:35
  Matt Whitermore: That's, that's some of the work I've had the most fun doing over the last few months is helping, helping, uh, some glamping developers, uh, get their hands on some, some old, uh, campgrounds that need a, need a new
• 4:48
  Matt Whitermore: life and, and need, need some new life, you know, uh, breathed into them and maybe some raw land to develop into, uh, glamping resorts and outdoor lodging concepts of all types.
• 5:01
  Matt Whitermore: So it's been a lot of fun.
• 5:03
  Brian Searl: Also, it's your first month at this job too now.
• 5:05
  Brian Searl: You're not gonna tell us what you do still?
• 5:06
  Brian Searl: It's still south and secret, or?
• 5:09
  Matt Whitermore: So we, that's exactly what we do.
• 5:10
  Matt Whitermore: We, we're, uh, we're an AI native commercial real estate brokerage.
• 5:15
  Matt Whitermore: And really the focus has been, uh, working for acquirers and buyers and users of space, um, to find the right space for them, whether it's to, whether it's an existing business or land to develop or an old, a
• 5:32
  Matt Whitermore: tired, old campground to reimagine into something, a new concept.
• 5:37
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so that's it.
• 5:38
  Matt Whitermore: We, we, uh, we represent, um, buyers and developers and use AI to, to help them get their hands on, uh, the space and the, the land that they need to get their hands on to grow their businesses.
• 5:51
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 5:51
  Brian Searl: Well, hope you continue to be successful and keep growing the company.
• 5:54
  Matt Whitermore: Yes.
• 5:55
  Brian Searl: Uh, last but not least, Sherise, please introduce yourself.
• 5:59
  Sherise Gumbs: Hi, I'm Sherise.
• 6:00
  Sherise Gumbs: Um, I spent the past 10 years working in tech, securing some of the top companies in the United States and Amer- and, um, Canada.
• 6:08
  Sherise Gumbs: And now I'm excited to find CampGuide, which is a campground management software that just does things a lot differently and uses a lot of different tools just based on all the years I've spent with these companies and securing
• 6:23
  Sherise Gumbs: billions of dollars in funds just to see how we can make managing a campground a little bit better.
• 6:31
  Brian Searl: All right, Sherise, I'm gonna start off on maybe a hard question, okay?
• 6:34
  Sherise Gumbs: Okay, go for it.
• 6:35
  Brian Searl: Everybody says they have campground management software.
• 6:38
  Brian Searl: Why do we care?
• 6:40
  Brian Searl: I know you're gonna hit that out of the park, so that's why I'm asking it to you.
• 6:45
  Sherise Gumbs: I think there's a difference between campground management software and a system.
• 6:49
  Sherise Gumbs: So I think CampGuide is way more of a system of how you manage your campground, where it's like, it's not just about making those reservations, it's about all of those little details in the way that you run your
• 6:59
  Sherise Gumbs: campground.
• 6:59
  Sherise Gumbs: Uh, earlier today we were talking a little bit about marketing and how can we even partner with influencers.
• 7:06
  Sherise Gumbs: Well, in CampGuide, there's also a part where you can say exactly how ma- how many stays these influencers would get for free.
• 7:15
  Sherise Gumbs: You can set comp codes that are based on s- very, very specific t- um, very specific amounts, exactly how many times they can stay, how m- what recurring stays are.
• 7:29
  Sherise Gumbs: "Okay, well, first stay you get y- you can have this m- amount that you pay.
• 7:33
  Sherise Gumbs: Second stay is this much."
• 7:35
  Sherise Gumbs: And then you can also put, like, things like your maximum amount of, of, um, You can say like the maximum amount of revenue that's put on that.
• 7:46
  Sherise Gumbs: So like, "Okay, we're not gonna spend this much more on influencers."
• 7:49
  Sherise Gumbs: And you can also give a login specifically to your marketing team who can make their own comp code as well, and you can set the limits on that as well.
• 7:56
  Sherise Gumbs: So that's just like one very tiny feature in the thousands of features available in CampGuide.
• 8:03
  Brian Searl: Sarah, go ahead please.
• 8:05
  Sarah Stahl: So I No, I was just gonna say, um, if I'm understanding this correctly, I'm really interested because one of the things that I ran into using a PMS system at Retreat is most property management systems are not built
• 8:18
  Sarah Stahl: for operations.
• 8:20
  Sarah Stahl: That was what I learned the hard way even trying to like change to a different system.
• 8:24
  Sarah Stahl: So it sounds like from what you're saying you have a lot of operational aspects built in.
• 8:30
  Sarah Stahl: Uh, okay, that's really interesting.
• 8:32
  Brian Searl: Yeah, they're basically built to make money is what they are, right?
• 8:35
  Sherise Gumbs: Yes.
• 8:35
  Brian Searl: Like they're not built to And then-
• 8:37
  Sherise Gumbs: They're just made to make money.
• 8:37
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 8:38
  Brian Searl: Well, I mean, you o- obviously make money.
• 8:39
  Brian Searl: I'm sure CampGuide's built that way too, right?
• 8:41
  Brian Searl: But, but like we i've had these conversations with multiple people before.
• 8:44
  Brian Searl: It's like we- we're gonna build the booking engine 'cause we ma- make b- make money off the charge per reservation, or we're gonna build the financial payment system out because we take a percentage of Stripe or whatever it
• 8:54
  Brian Searl: is, right?
• 8:55
  Brian Searl: Uh, and then we're gonna add the other features that we need, but we're only gonna do it because we've got a roadmap that's 10,000 miles long and because 100 people have asked us for it, we're gonna build the
• 9:02
  Brian Searl: cheapest possible quickest thing we can to just check a box and say we've done it.
• 9:05
  Brian Searl: Is that fair?
• 9:06
  Brian Searl: On a macro scale there are micro people doing it better.
• 9:10
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah, because I think the issue and, um, I think Sherise- sounds like you could talk to this really well, is that most people building PMSs, um, I would say the last iteration I'm seeing a lot more happening now
• 9:23
  Sarah Stahl: with, um, AI that people are s- people in the industry are actually starting to build solutions.
• 9:29
  Sarah Stahl: But previously most of the big market PMSs, they weren't even in the industry.
• 9:36
  Sarah Stahl: They didn't know the operational issues that they had to build for the future for.
• 9:40
  Sarah Stahl: And then as, as properties are growing and they're running into all these issues, that's why to your point, Brian, there's a list 10 years long because they're finding out about it from owners after the fact
• 9:57
  Brian Searl: Matt, what do you think?
• 9:59
  Brian Searl: Go, go ahead, Sherise, please.
• 10:00
  Brian Searl: I'm sorry.
• 10:00
  Sherise Gumbs: No, go, go ahead.
• 10:01
  Brian Searl: There was just a delay.
• 10:02
  Sherise Gumbs: Matt, since I didn't talk-
• 10:02
  Brian Searl: I, I didn't know if you were gonna add an answer prep, so I was like, "All right, well, Matt, maybe he's got something.
• 10:06
  Brian Searl: He's always willing to chat."
• 10:08
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah, so-
• 10:08
  Brian Searl: Go ahead, Matt
• 10:11
  Matt Whitermore: I'll jump in.
• 10:12
  Matt Whitermore: Um, I am just like, I would consider myself kind of anti-SaaS.
• 10:18
  Matt Whitermore: I mean, I, I'm, I'm friendly.
• 10:20
  Matt Whitermore: I, I'm in full support.
• 10:21
  Matt Whitermore: I wish you the best success.
• 10:23
  Matt Whitermore: Um, you know, buying software is one of my least favorite things to do in the world.
• 10:29
  Matt Whitermore: It's always the most frustrating process.
• 10:32
  Matt Whitermore: And then, right, you get sold a bill of goods by the software salesperson, and then you get in and you get hands-on, and all the things that you were promised in the sales process are not real.
• 10:43
  Matt Whitermore: Um, you know, I think the way of the future is, is software that's built for AI agents, um, more so than humans.
• 10:53
  Matt Whitermore: And right, even like I'm a real, I'm a real estate guy through and through, like I'm real estate brained, which is another way of saying like, not very intelligent.
• 11:03
  Matt Whitermore: Um, and right, I'm not, I don't have a technical background.
• 11:06
  Matt Whitermore: I've just, what I've gotten struck with the bug of becoming just to an unhealthy level obsessed with AI.
• 11:15
  Matt Whitermore: And you know, I, what I'm always looking for is where's the MCP, where's the API?
• 11:23
  Matt Whitermore: I don't want to touch your software, I just want Claude to run your software.
• 11:26
  Matt Whitermore: I want Codex to run your software.
• 11:28
  Matt Whitermore: I want Grok Bot or Cursor right to whatever I'm in, I want that to run the software, and I just want to talk to my agent and, and know that my agent is gonna be able to get the
• 11:40
  Matt Whitermore: data in and out.
• 11:41
  Matt Whitermore: And, you know, a lot of, a lot of these PMS providers in the industry have APIs, but like even just the, the process of like getting the right endpoints and getting the right grants, like I won't name the,
• 11:57
  Matt Whitermore: I won't name the software provider, but it took two months just to get the right grants of submitting tickets and, and getting responses.
• 12:04
  Brian Searl: Oh, we're dealing, we're dealing with one right now, Matt.
• 12:07
  Brian Searl: Like we, like we've been building an integration with, I won't name them either, right?
• 12:10
  Brian Searl: We've been building an integration with them for a year, and all of a sudden they redid their API rules and they're like, "Oh, weeks to a couple months until we get back to you."
• 12:17
  Brian Searl: What are you talking about?
• 12:18
  Brian Searl: I've got my whole thing built on top of your platform.
• 12:20
  Brian Searl: I've been talking to you for a year.
• 12:22
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 12:23
  Brian Searl: Uh, so it, yeah, like, I want you to finish, Matt, in a second, but like I under-
• 12:26
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah
• 12:26
  Brian Searl: I understand, I think what you're saying and, and what I'm gonna add to that is like, it's, it's really interesting to me to see how the evolution of AI is impacting decision-making.
• 12:38
  Brian Searl: Mm.
• 12:38
  Brian Searl: I think, and I don't know and have facts, right?
• 12:41
  Brian Searl: But I think that what we're seeing is a panic reaction of I had an open API before and now I can't have an open API, or I don't think I can because everybody and their brother's hooking it up
• 12:52
  Brian Searl: to MCPs, and it used to have read, write access, and I'd hand out one key and then you can do everything, and now people are talking to their Claude and it's going off the rails costing 10,000 different support
• 13:02
  Brian Searl: tickets for me a minute.
• 13:04
  Brian Searl: So I'm gonna lock down this access, but I'm gonna over lock it down and compensate to the other side of it Which is gonna stop the good people who wanna develop stuff, and I'm not saying I'm good or
• 13:13
  Brian Searl: bad, that's not for me to say, right?
• 13:14
  Brian Searl: But the people who are trying to build quality integrations is gonna impair that, and then there's the school of thought of, "Well, we'll just lock it down and develop everything in-house," which is what some of them are doing
• 13:25
  Brian Searl: too.
• 13:25
  Brian Searl: Which to, to the-- Doesn't mean they're bad, right?
• 13:27
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 13:28
  Brian Searl: So I think it's an interesting overreaction and underreaction.
• 13:31
  Brian Searl: It's the same thing with, like, if you go back and look at the bots, I posted about this on LinkedIn the other day.
• 13:36
  Brian Searl: We've done studies on this for all our data collection.
• 13:39
  Brian Searl: Like, the amount of reservation systems providers that block almost every bot, including AI and ChatGPT and Claude, from coming to your website or coming, yeah, coming to your website.
• 13:49
  Brian Searl: Obviously, they don't have the, the technology and fun- and I don't know if people know this, right?
• 13:53
  Brian Searl: But you go to Claude and you say, "Check m- check, uh, you know, what's the best place to camp in Austin, Texas that's under $70?"
• 14:00
  Brian Searl: It cannot go to your website, open up Campspot, Newbook, Staylist, pick your reservation system, right?
• 14:05
  Brian Searl: CampGuide, whatever, right?
• 14:06
  Brian Searl: It can't open those things up and enter the date picker and click Search and go by and read the JavaScript and extract all your information for your rates.
• 14:14
  Brian Searl: It cannot, it's not capable of doing that.
• 14:16
  Brian Searl: Manus can, Claude Code can, but not the stuff that most of the consumers are building every day.
• 14:21
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 14:22
  Brian Searl: And, and so the-- That's interesting too, is the reaction of the reservation systems to just lock this stuff down, and I get it that they need to stop bad bots, but nobody's really seem- seeming to think this through
• 14:33
  Brian Searl: past, like, tomorrow.
• 14:35
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 14:36
  Matt Whitermore: And I, I will say our, our industry is, is probably better than most, right?
• 14:42
  Matt Whitermore: I, I kind of straddle the, the worlds of commercial real estate and, and outdoor hospitality, and it's so much worse in commercial real estate.
• 14:51
  Matt Whitermore: Like, the, the, the software providers are litigious, right?
• 14:55
  Matt Whitermore: They, they sue their own customers for misuse.
• 14:58
  Matt Whitermore: They, they leverage, right, their, their fine print against you and, and, and jack up your rates, you know, based on your activity and, and just, you know, send you, like, scary, scary legalese letters.
• 15:11
  Matt Whitermore: You know, they put you on your heels and it's, it's an adversarial relationship more than it is a customer relationship.
• 15:18
  Matt Whitermore: And same thing, they block all the bots, um, which is insane to me, right?
• 15:25
  Matt Whitermore: Like, they're very protective and defensive over their data, and I think they, they just assume of, "Oh, you're, you're using a bot to scrape our data, and you're gonna go misuse our data, and you're gonna, you're gonna-"
• 15:37
  Brian Searl: But it's publicly available data, which is the silly part.
• 15:39
  Brian Searl: Like, I get the behind-
• 15:40
  Matt Whitermore: Right
• 15:40
  Brian Searl: the login stuff.
• 15:41
  Brian Searl: That's protected, right?
• 15:42
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 15:43
  Matt Whitermore: It's so funny that there's been, there's been lawsuits about that of, of even private users and, and operators suing each other in our industry.
• 15:51
  Matt Whitermore: Won't name those either, but the, the, the court, the court decided that y- nothing, no commercial real estate, no public record derived data is proprietary, so-
• 16:03
  Sarah Stahl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:04
  Sarah Stahl: Mm
• 16:04
  Matt Whitermore: get out of my courtroom.
• 16:06
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so just thought that was super interesting and You know, the one thing, my, my big thing, I think even in our industry, and I think it's just inherently a problem with the SaaS model, is I just always
• 16:22
  Matt Whitermore: feel that there's a culture of, uh, closing the ticket and not solving the problem.
• 16:29
  Sarah Stahl: Mm.
• 16:29
  Matt Whitermore: I don't know if anybody else feels that, that, right?
• 16:32
  Matt Whitermore: Your, your engaged-
• 16:32
  Brian Searl: I mean, I felt that going to my doctor for like 15 years, but that's another discussion.
• 16:36
  Brian Searl: Like, here's a pill.
• 16:38
  Matt Whitermore: Right, like it's like-
• 16:39
  Brian Searl: But anyway, we won't go off that on that tangent, but continue
• 16:41
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Matt Whitermore: Right?
• 16:42
  Matt Whitermore: Like, you submit a ticket.
• 16:43
  Matt Whitermore: I hate that, right?
• 16:44
  Matt Whitermore: Like, let me just call somebody.
• 16:45
  Matt Whitermore: If I can't call somebody and talk to a human-
• 16:47
  Sarah Stahl: Mm-hmm
• 16:47
  Matt Whitermore: or even I'd be, I'd be thrilled to talk to a voice agent at this point, right?
• 16:52
  Matt Whitermore: Let me talk to somebody or, or an agent that can solve my problem, but not leave a message or, or getting directed via a recorded message to go submit a ticket on the website, and then it's a week
• 17:05
  Matt Whitermore: to hear back from the ticket, and right?
• 17:08
  Matt Whitermore: It's just the, the vibes are so much from...
• 17:11
  Matt Whitermore: And it, it's not the person's fault, right?
• 17:13
  Matt Whitermore: They're, they're, uh, cu- they're in customer success, right?
• 17:17
  Matt Whitermore: They're in an early career role.
• 17:19
  Matt Whitermore: They're, right, they don't have-
• 17:20
  Brian Searl: They're doing their job.
• 17:21
  Brian Searl: The problem is their job has been-
• 17:23
  Matt Whitermore: True.
• 17:23
  Matt Whitermore: They're doing their job
• 17:23
  Brian Searl: too narrowly defined most of the time-
• 17:25
  Matt Whitermore: Right
• 17:25
  Brian Searl: for what their skillset is.
• 17:27
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 17:27
  Brian Searl: Or could be.
• 17:28
  Matt Whitermore: But it's, it's so much of, "Hey, how do I close this ticket?"
• 17:32
  Matt Whitermore: And not necessarily, "How do I solve this customer's problem?"
• 17:36
  Matt Whitermore: And especially today, like, really anything should be possible.
• 17:41
  Matt Whitermore: It doesn't, it shouldn't be the, the, the culture of, "Well, I need 1,000 requests are, that are similar as to this to consider building out that new feature or fixing that bug or whatever."
• 17:54
  Matt Whitermore: Like- Software development is so, uh, easy and fast now that one customer having a problem should be enough to consider making a change-
• 18:08
  Sarah Stahl: Hmm
• 18:08
  Matt Whitermore: if it, if it makes sense.
• 18:09
  Matt Whitermore: Don't get me wrong, there's some customers out there that are sub- submitting tickets for things that are completely off the rails and don't make sense, I'm sure.
• 18:17
  Matt Whitermore: So not to-
• 18:18
  Brian Searl: I wanna give Cherie a chance to weigh in on this-
• 18:20
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah, please
• 18:21
  Brian Searl: 'cause I wanna, I wanna...
• 18:21
  Brian Searl: And here's my opinion before Sherise's this, right?
• 18:24
  Brian Searl: I think good software development is still really hard even with AI.
• 18:29
  Brian Searl: It's not.
• 18:29
  Brian Searl: I think you can just move faster.
• 18:31
  Brian Searl: I think generally you can, yeah, you can mock up anything and make something pretty quick.
• 18:36
  Brian Searl: You're right.
• 18:37
  Brian Searl: So I don't know, I'm not sure that that's what you meant, Matt.
• 18:39
  Brian Searl: I'm not trying to, like, undercut you, right?
• 18:40
  Brian Searl: But those are-
• 18:41
  Matt Whitermore: No, for sure
• 18:41
  Brian Searl: just to clarify those two things.
• 18:42
  Matt Whitermore: Agreed.
• 18:44
  Sherise Gumbs: Yeah.
• 18:44
  Sherise Gumbs: I think that right now we're in a space where it's easier to plan exactly what you're trying to develop but to have something that is supported and secure.
• 18:54
  Sherise Gumbs: So a little bit of background, for many years I worked in cybersecurity so being with that and then seeing AI and seeing how AI is being used in many cases, a lot of times we are not taking into
• 19:05
  Sherise Gumbs: account the security side of that but I agree.
• 19:08
  Sherise Gumbs: So I spent the past few months using a lot of different campground management tools.
• 19:12
  Sherise Gumbs: There are some tools, I'm not gonna call any names, but even to just run your own repor- your, change your rates for your campground you have to download a report to make the changes into a CSV, re-upload the
• 19:24
  Sherise Gumbs: report and I j- I just felt like-
• 19:26
  Brian Searl: Really?
• 19:27
  Sherise Gumbs: Yes.
• 19:27
  Brian Searl: No.
• 19:28
  Sherise Gumbs: One of the largest tools.
• 19:30
  Sherise Gumbs: And that's-
• 19:30
  Brian Searl: Interesting
• 19:31
  Sherise Gumbs: all I need.
• 19:32
  Sherise Gumbs: Um, and to change things like cancellation policies you have to c- put a support ticket in.
• 19:39
  Sherise Gumbs: A lot of these tools they have five to seven business day windows where they get back to you so you, it'll be like a week or two before you even hear back to change the rates for your campground
• 19:48
  Sherise Gumbs: and I, I just don't think that's quite fair.
• 19:50
  Sherise Gumbs: And then to your point earlier about, um, being able to connect your campground to your MCP of choice, a lot of them lock that down.
• 19:58
  Sherise Gumbs: I don't agree.
• 19:58
  Sherise Gumbs: CampGuide's just, I don't know, it's We have our own MCP, you can connect it to Cloud.
• 20:03
  Sherise Gumbs: I said, tell campground owners, "Here's what you could do.
• 20:05
  Sherise Gumbs: We have Alexa integration so you can ask Alexa, 'Hey, how many people are coming into my campground today?'
• 20:10
  Sherise Gumbs: and it'll tell you.
• 20:11
  Sherise Gumbs: 'Hey, is this site open?'
• 20:12
  Sherise Gumbs: It'll tell you."
• 20:13
  Sherise Gumbs: And I think that a lot of these- Software, I think j- as we said earlier, it's based on what can make the money, what are people overwhelmingly saying, "I'm gonna switch the, my software for?"
• 20:31
  Sherise Gumbs: It's not, how can I make the user experience the best that it can be?
• 20:34
  Sherise Gumbs: But rather how can
• 20:35
  Brian Searl: I- I think you hit the, I think you hit the nail on the head with something though, right?
• 20:38
  Brian Searl: It's, it's what am I gonna switch my software for?
• 20:41
  Brian Searl: And I think one of the roots of the problems, and you can talk about this maybe Sarah, from the vacation rental side or from the glamping resorts you work with, but I, I'm, I hear it all the time
• 20:51
  Brian Searl: from campgrounds.
• 20:52
  Brian Searl: Matt, you probably heard it when you worked at Unhitched.
• 20:54
  Brian Searl: Uh, I think the problem is, is our, the people in this industry who are buying the software have their expectations set like way down there somewhere and have no idea what's possible today.
• 21:06
  Sarah Stahl: That, that's a, that's a big conversation because that's actually what's coming.
• 21:10
  Sarah Stahl: I just, um, went to VRMA in Nashville and heard Jamie Lane talk about, um, some of the data from the last year and what's happening in the outdoor industry over...
• 21:20
  Sarah Stahl: the short-term rental industry overall.
• 21:23
  Sarah Stahl: And, uh, a lot of the issues are tied, are tied in half or cut in half between operators who n- understand and know that they're running a business and do so, and then operators who are like, "Let me
• 21:38
  Sarah Stahl: just try to make some money," and don't really know hospitality, don't know the business, um, and just start picking, like, the cheapest tools, if you will, right?
• 21:46
  Sarah Stahl: So then it becomes a, a price point thing.
• 21:49
  Sarah Stahl: Um, but operationally speaking, I always go back to the operations because to me, that's what AI has allowed us to do a lot more easy than just a couple of years ago, is, you know...
• 22:01
  Sarah Stahl: I, I actually tried.
• 22:02
  Sarah Stahl: We used, um...
• 22:03
  Sarah Stahl: And I will name names.
• 22:04
  Sarah Stahl: I, I'm, I'm com- I'm okay with that 'cause I'm independent.
• 22:06
  Sarah Stahl: I can do that.
• 22:07
  Sarah Stahl: So we used, uh, Hostway at, um, Virtuari, and I actually loved it.
• 22:14
  Sarah Stahl: It's super use- user-friendly compared to some of the other ones.
• 22:17
  Sarah Stahl: But it did not help us with operations.
• 22:19
  Sarah Stahl: So, you know, there were some things we were trying to do to keep better tabs of what was happening, um, on the maintenance side, on the housekeeping side, but we had to use Turnout, right?
• 22:29
  Sarah Stahl: So then we had this other, um, piece of software.
• 22:32
  Sarah Stahl: And then, you know, we were trying to run CRM systems so that we could focus on both direct booking and return gue- w- earning the return guest.
• 22:42
  Sarah Stahl: And then we had to have another piece of software for that.
• 22:44
  Sarah Stahl: So thankfully, the reason why I stuck with them when, um, I actually sat through five different demos for five different PMSs as we were considering changing, and the reason why I stuck with them is because they had the
• 22:58
  Sarah Stahl: open API at the time.
• 23:00
  Sarah Stahl: So all the other f- well, all the other five I sat through, the...
• 23:04
  Sarah Stahl: my top question was, "Do you have an, do you have an API capability?"
• 23:07
  Sarah Stahl: And they all said no.
• 23:09
  Sarah Stahl: So it sounds like a lot of them have heard the market and have started to switch and, like, offer that.
• 23:15
  Sarah Stahl: But to me, that's table stakes to be able to take control of your operations because if you have a PMS that locks up your operations and then you can't connect anything to see, that's...
• 23:26
  Sarah Stahl: I, I don't understand how people are functioning that way.
• 23:28
  Brian Searl: Which is almost every reservation system in our space.
• 23:33
  Brian Searl: Honestly, it is
• 23:34
  Sarah Stahl: that, that's why I'm really excited.
• 23:36
  Sarah Stahl: So I think I've heard from three different folks in our space in the last month who are in the industry and building their own solution because they're like, "Well, with AI, I can do this now," right?
• 23:50
  Sarah Stahl: "And I don't have to be so reliant."
• 23:52
  Sarah Stahl: Um, because I, I mean, I'm just simple and plain the way I think about things, and SaaS stands for service, and like everything we've talked about, um, it does not, it, it, none of it's service Uh, not to
• 24:09
  Sarah Stahl: the customer anyway, and so, um, I'm really curious to see what's happening with these folks who are in the industry building these things who understand, understands operations.
• 24:20
  Brian Searl: Well, that's what I mean, that's what I mean when I say the expectation of the campground owner, right?
• 24:24
  Brian Searl: I- i- is I think that the, the normal campground owner, call it 90% of the campground owners out there, right, are not asking these companies for APIs, even with AI.
• 24:35
  Brian Searl: And so I think they can get away with that.
• 24:37
  Brian Searl: The normal campground-
• 24:38
  Sarah Stahl: So are they assuming that the operational piece just comes with the PMS?
• 24:43
  Brian Searl: I, I'm not a campground owner.
• 24:44
  Brian Searl: Matt, tell m- t- you're not a campground owner e- either.
• 24:46
  Brian Searl: You were, but, like, you worked for Unhitched.
• 24:48
  Brian Searl: Do you have more insight into that?
• 24:50
  Matt Whitermore: Um, I've always kind of disagreed with the, for the most part, like PMS as, as a, as a name and qualification for these things, right?
• 25:02
  Sarah Stahl: Hmm.
• 25:02
  Matt Whitermore: It's like different, coming from the real estate world, like where you have actual property management software, right?
• 25:09
  Matt Whitermore: I, I think they're coming around for sure.
• 25:12
  Matt Whitermore: Um-
• 25:13
  Sarah Stahl: Hmm
• 25:13
  Matt Whitermore: but I, I think there's a lot to be desired, you know?
• 25:16
  Matt Whitermore: It's, it's, I struggle with it because maybe I'm a little bit of a pessimist, maybe I'm a little bit negative, right?
• 25:23
  Matt Whitermore: It's a, such a small, niche-y little industry, right?
• 25:28
  Matt Whitermore: The...
• 25:28
  Matt Whitermore: I'd love to hear, Sherise, your outlook on this-
• 25:31
  Sarah Stahl: Mm-hmm
• 25:31
  Matt Whitermore: as a founder in the space, right?
• 25:34
  Matt Whitermore: I talk to a lot of people about, "Oh, I'm thinking about starting up this thing and selling it into the..."
• 25:38
  Matt Whitermore: Selling it in, honestly, Brian, well, all of you would, would have good input on this, but I've told people or maybe even talked some people out of it, of I want, you know, they wanna be a vendor in
• 25:49
  Matt Whitermore: the outdoor hospitality space, and they wanna sell into campground owners and RV park owners, and I'm like, "Good luck."
• 25:56
  Matt Whitermore: Like, wonderful people we have in this industry.
• 25:58
  Matt Whitermore: Terrific, awesome people, but they're cheap.
• 26:02
  Matt Whitermore: They don't wanna buy anything from you.
• 26:04
  Matt Whitermore: Most of them don't have budget, right?
• 26:07
  Matt Whitermore: M- most campgrounds are small, low revenue.
• 26:11
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so maybe I'm a little bit overly pessimistic about it.
• 26:14
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so I've always looked at-
• 26:17
  Sarah Stahl: Hmm
• 26:17
  Matt Whitermore: like, oh, w- wouldn't it make sense for, for one of these, uh, providers to, like, scale up into greater hospitality and, and go after, like, a larger, you know, total addressable market?
• 26:31
  Matt Whitermore: Um, I don't know.
• 26:34
  Matt Whitermore: It's a, I, I go back and forth with, with kinda my outlook on the space and, uh-
• 26:40
  Brian Searl: I mean, I've been told that before, right?
• 26:41
  Brian Searl: Like, not, like, we're obviously not doing a booking engine or a PMS.
• 26:45
  Brian Searl: Uh, no plans to do so right now.
• 26:47
  Brian Searl: Um, you know, I've been told the same thing, like, like with my marketing or with my AI chatbots or phone calls.
• 26:53
  Brian Searl: Like, scale it up, go to other industries, and maybe that ends up being the answer, but I've been here for 16 years and I feel like I think it's an expectations thing, Matt.
• 27:02
  Brian Searl: I really do.
• 27:03
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 27:03
  Brian Searl: Like, I, I think it's a, I don't know that there's another way to operate my campground because this is the way I've done it for 40, 50 years, and that doesn't mean just PMS software, right?
• 27:13
  Brian Searl: That means labor or hospitality or efficiencies-
• 27:15
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah
• 27:15
  Brian Searl: or better Wi-Fi systems or all the things that could save you money in other places or show you that there's more mo- revenue to be made in other places that they just don't know exists, and nobody is presenting
• 27:27
  Brian Searl: them with this.
• 27:27
  Brian Searl: Nobody is truly innovating, and I told Sherise this, uh, you know, in a, in a private chat.
• 27:34
  Brian Searl: Like, I'm not gonna say what you said, Sherise, back, right?
• 27:36
  Brian Searl: But what I said to her was that, um, uh, you know, the expectations of the people here are just...
• 27:44
  Brian Searl: I lost my train of thought.
• 27:44
  Brian Searl: Anyway, whatever.
• 27:45
  Brian Searl: You go to Sherise.
• 27:46
  Brian Searl: Go to Sherise.
• 27:47
  Brian Searl: I lo- I lost my train of thought what I was saying.
• 27:48
  Sherise Gumbs: And I think getting to the, the core point of the expectation right now is, number one, in this space, it's a lot of private equity-owned businesses.
• 27:58
  Sherise Gumbs: These aren't businesses like the PMS systems.
• 28:00
  Sherise Gumbs: They're not owned by regular people who are interested in just making-
• 28:04
  Brian Searl: Anymore.
• 28:05
  Brian Searl: Yep.
• 28:05
  Brian Searl: They were when they started, but anymore, yep.
• 28:08
  Sherise Gumbs: And now because of that, it's just about how can we make the most money versus it being just about let's make the experience better.
• 28:17
  Sherise Gumbs: And then number two, there's the expectation now that software should be free because a lot of these, uh, campground owners, they're paying just based on, like, a $5 to $8 booking fee on each campground booking versus it actually
• 28:32
  Sherise Gumbs: just being something they're paying for monthly and then also when, let's say, they need a perk website, now they tr- they're paying another vendor, and then they're doing this with another vendor, and it all adds up, but it's
• 28:42
  Sherise Gumbs: not something that's one price at once.
• 28:45
  Sherise Gumbs: So because of that, they think of it like, "Oh, this thing's so cheap."
• 28:48
  Sherise Gumbs: They're not looking at what is the report showing that I paid them?
• 28:51
  Sherise Gumbs: What is the difference in my...
• 28:55
  Sherise Gumbs: Am I able to upsell people?
• 28:56
  Sherise Gumbs: Like, with us, each person who stays at the campground gets this, um, stay pass.
• 29:03
  Sherise Gumbs: They can log in.
• 29:03
  Sherise Gumbs: They can say, "Oh, they offer this.
• 29:06
  Sherise Gumbs: There's this event.
• 29:06
  Sherise Gumbs: Let me go attend that.
• 29:07
  Sherise Gumbs: Let me go buy this tour."
• 29:09
  Sherise Gumbs: It's all part of their stay.
• 29:10
  Sherise Gumbs: They can message the front desk.
• 29:12
  Sherise Gumbs: It's not about making the experience better for these campers for a lot of these software companies.
• 29:16
  Sherise Gumbs: It's more so about how can I make the most money?
• 29:21
  Brian Searl: Maybe.
• 29:21
  Brian Searl: I mean, we can't, like, I don't wanna shove that down...
• 29:23
  Brian Searl: Like, I know there are some good people who work.
• 29:25
  Brian Searl: On a macro level, I don't disagree with you, okay?
• 29:28
  Brian Searl: I'm not trying to censor myself.
• 29:29
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 29:29
  Brian Searl: I'm just saying on a macro level, I, I agree with you.
• 29:31
  Brian Searl: On a micro level, I think there are some really good people who work for these companies who really do care.
• 29:36
  Brian Searl: Sometimes their hands are just tied, though.
• 29:39
  Matt Whitermore: Totally.
• 29:40
  Sherise Gumbs: I completely agree with that
• 29:43
  Brian Searl: But then how do we solve that problem?
• 29:45
  Brian Searl: Like I s- I still think it's an expectations gap.
• 29:47
  Brian Searl: I still think it comes back to the owner saying, "I don't just want a..."
• 29:52
  Brian Searl: Let's just pick a housekeeping module, right?
• 29:53
  Brian Searl: Or a time tracker or whatever it is, or a maintenance request form.
• 29:58
  Brian Searl: "I don't just want the thing that you can throw together and make me ha- make me, you know, check a box and say I'm happy.
• 30:05
  Brian Searl: I know what's possible.
• 30:06
  Brian Searl: I've done research with three or four other vendors that are outside the industry and seen the capabilities that can be built if someone puts time and attention and care into it, and I get that you're not gonna be
• 30:16
  Brian Searl: the dedicated time tracker, the best of the best.
• 30:18
  Brian Searl: You're not gonna be the dedicated housekeeping, the best of the best.
• 30:21
  Brian Searl: But if you could get 50% of the way there."
• 30:24
  Brian Searl: But those things aren't being asked, or if they are being asked, to Matt's point earlier in the show, they're being promised and never delivered.
• 30:30
  Brian Searl: "Do you offer holograms so I can talk to people on my front?"
• 30:33
  Brian Searl: "Yeah, yeah, we got that.
• 30:34
  Brian Searl: Just sign up.
• 30:35
  Brian Searl: Yeah."
• 30:36
  Brian Searl: Right?
• 30:39
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah.
• 30:39
  Sarah Stahl: I just was asked to submit a quote on this topic and about, like, what should you ask your, um, SaaS provider, you know, before making the switch?
• 30:48
  Sarah Stahl: And the question is, yeah, who, who am I gonna talk to at day 91?
• 30:55
  Sarah Stahl: Um, I wanna talk to that person right now and, uh...
• 30:59
  Sarah Stahl: Or not right now, but, like, you know, I wanna talk to that person next.
• 31:01
  Sarah Stahl: Set up a time, and then I want that person to be able to walk me through, um, a successful dashboard of a customer and not just see a demo, 'cause a demo is a brochure.
• 31:12
  Sarah Stahl: Um, a demo, it-- to your point, Brian, it tells you all the pretty things that you really wanna see and hear.
• 31:19
  Sarah Stahl: Um, it doesn't help you understand.
• 31:20
  Sarah Stahl: So I think the, um, software companies who actually keep service as part of their ecosystem and not just, like, under a SaaS umbrella will be really important, and if they could talk to actual people and know who those
• 31:36
  Sarah Stahl: people are.
• 31:37
  Sarah Stahl: And this, this to me, if we look out bigger, I think this is what's happening to our culture because of AI.
• 31:43
  Sarah Stahl: We actually want to know who we're working with more specifically more than ever, regardless of what industry or business that you're in.
• 31:53
  Brian Searl: Yeah, you would hope it would move that way.
• 31:55
  Brian Searl: I think, I think we've seen evidence of that, right?
• 31:56
  Brian Searl: But you would hope it would move that way.
• 31:57
  Sarah Stahl: I think we are seeing evidence of that, yeah.
• 31:59
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 32:04
  Brian Searl: We're all just gonna look at each other and wait for me to talk and ask a question?
• 32:08
  Sarah Stahl: That's the plan, right?
• 32:09
  Sarah Stahl: I thought that that's what we planned.
• 32:11
  Sarah Stahl: No?
• 32:11
  Brian Searl: That's true.
• 32:11
  Brian Searl: I don't plan anything with this show.
• 32:14
  Brian Searl: I just show up and talk to people.
• 32:16
  Brian Searl: Like, I, yeah, I don't, I don't know.
• 32:17
  Brian Searl: Like, it boggles my mind too, like, 'cause I've, I've been in this industry for 16 years, and we started off, like I said, doing, you know, the basics of marketing, review responses, and social media, and stuff like that
• 32:29
  Brian Searl: back in 2010 working for parks.
• 32:32
  Brian Searl: And the amount of people back then who just And, and some of it is you're busy.
• 32:36
  Brian Searl: I get that.
• 32:36
  Brian Searl: And some of it is you got into the campground industry to get away from technology.
• 32:41
  Brian Searl: Understandable.
• 32:42
  Brian Searl: So nobody, when I say these things, I'm not picking on people or saying that they're wrong for their way of thinking, right?
• 32:48
  Brian Searl: But this is, it goes back to 2010, w- long before then, right?
• 32:52
  Brian Searl: But for me, it goes back to 2010 in the aspect of, you know, we sure we know we maybe need social media posting, but we have no idea what network to post on, or what we should post, or
• 33:01
  Brian Searl: whoever, so sure, we'll just hire you, or we'll hire a work camper, or we'll hire somebody.
• 33:06
  Brian Searl: Just get us content up there so we can check the box and get it done.
• 33:10
  Brian Searl: And then they never ask the question, just like they're not asking the PMS provider today.
• 33:14
  Brian Searl: They never ask the question to me, "What content are you publishing?
• 33:17
  Brian Searl: How do you know it's the right audience?
• 33:18
  Brian Searl: How do you know it's resonating with people?
• 33:20
  Brian Searl: What are the results you're getting from people?
• 33:21
  Brian Searl: Is it actually working?
• 33:22
  Brian Searl: Is it driving more business?
• 33:24
  Brian Searl: Am I just..."
• 33:24
  Brian Searl: All those things, right?
• 33:26
  Brian Searl: They don't ask those questions, and arguably they don't have time to or didn't pre-AI.
• 33:32
  Brian Searl: Maybe they have more time now with the ability for them to be dangerous by asking AI is, is Brian or whoever full of shit, right?
• 33:40
  Brian Searl: Maybe they have that ability now.
• 33:42
  Brian Searl: Um, but that's traced through the last 16 years with everything we've tried to develop 'cause I always try to push the boundaries of, "Listen, you should be paying attention to the analytics and your ROI, and forget about your
• 33:52
  Brian Searl: number of clicks.
• 33:53
  Brian Searl: It just matters, like the click-through rate matters more 'cause that shows you're targeting your audience, and then what do they do once they get to your website?
• 33:59
  Brian Searl: And do you care if they're actually coming to your website, or do you care if it's money in your pocket?"
• 34:05
  Brian Searl: So but I, I still have found a cold, not a cold reception, but a An un- I, I don't even want to say an unwillingness.
• 34:12
  Brian Searl: I don't know what the word is, right?
• 34:14
  Brian Searl: An in...
• 34:15
  Brian Searl: I, I, I don't, I don't know what the word is, right?
• 34:18
  Brian Searl: Um- There, is, is there a word?
• 34:19
  Brian Searl: I'm, I'm think- I'm not thinking of it right, but the idea is there
• 34:22
  Sarah Stahl: so you asked, you asked a big question about, like, how do you solve that, right?
• 34:26
  Sarah Stahl: Like, that's not something that we're gonna just, like, come out with a sentence for right now.
• 34:31
  Sarah Stahl: But, um, what I'm hearing from all of you is that it's a educational piece that's lacking.
• 34:40
  Sarah Stahl: Um, so, you know, and then, and then y- we can argue about who's responsible for that, right?
• 34:46
  Sarah Stahl: Is it the, the vendor who's providing the service?
• 34:49
  Sarah Stahl: Like-
• 34:49
  Brian Searl: No, I think it's the associations.
• 34:51
  Brian Searl: Continue.
• 34:51
  Brian Searl: I j- I just think it's the associations that-
• 34:52
  Sarah Stahl: Associations is interesting.
• 34:54
  Sarah Stahl: Um, so that was actually a thought I had earlier 'cause I just came from VRMA where we had a tremendous amount of education.
• 35:01
  Sarah Stahl: Um, you know, there was 2,000 people from the short-term rental industry there.
• 35:06
  Sarah Stahl: So that was one of my questions is what's happening on the campground side in terms of education?
• 35:14
  Brian Searl: Well, Matt, what do you think?
• 35:15
  Brian Searl: You've been to, uh, I think, Sherise, you're going to OHCE for the first time here in a few months.
• 35:19
  Brian Searl: I'm being lazy and staying home.
• 35:20
  Brian Searl: I'm going to the Canadian one- next week.
• 35:23
  Brian Searl: But Matt, what do you think, having attended OHCE for I think a couple years you were there, right?
• 35:28
  Brian Searl: Or is it just one?
• 35:28
  Matt Whitermore: Uh, yeah, yeah.
• 35:29
  Matt Whitermore: Um- It's such an interesting question.
• 35:35
  Matt Whitermore: You know, I think like People are so conflicted because there is this, right?
• 35:41
  Matt Whitermore: All of the technology and the AI sessions are super well attended.
• 35:47
  Matt Whitermore: People want to know it and they want that education, right?
• 35:51
  Matt Whitermore: Like we just talked about.
• 35:53
  Matt Whitermore: And, um, you know, I think they're torn though because they're so busy and I see this across all types of workers, right?
• 36:03
  Matt Whitermore: I talk to a lot of people who want to know about how they can use AI and, and how it can help them.
• 36:09
  Matt Whitermore: But right.
• 36:10
  Matt Whitermore: And I've said this before that like how I got into it was I just neglected all my other responsibilities for about a month.
• 36:18
  Matt Whitermore: I just cleared my deck.
• 36:18
  Brian Searl: Which is not good advice.
• 36:19
  Brian Searl: Do not listen to Matt.
• 36:20
  Sarah Stahl: Don't do this at home.
• 36:22
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 36:23
  Matt Whitermore: I just, I just, 'cause I, I was never going to immerse myself the way I needed to immerse myself because we're all busy with all the things and right.
• 36:33
  Matt Whitermore: It's, it's, it's just, I think it, it, with anything, with, with the new way of marketing, with technology, with all the things that AI is allowing us to do, you need to get over like the first hump or
• 36:48
  Matt Whitermore: hurdle, right?
• 36:50
  Matt Whitermore: You need to like, it, it, it opens up your world.
• 36:53
  Matt Whitermore: It's a little bit of like an epiphany that happens and you realize, and then there'll be a series of those and it'll take you years to, to get to the point where you are like truly AI native, if
• 37:06
  Matt Whitermore: that makes sense.
• 37:07
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so I see all these people that they want to know, but we talked about expectations too, and I think people have the wrong expectations about where technology and where AI is going, and I had this myself that
• 37:21
  Matt Whitermore: it's the smartest thing in the world.
• 37:23
  Matt Whitermore: It should be easy, right?
• 37:24
  Matt Whitermore: It shouldn't be that hard for me to like understand how it works or like buil- build out some AI workflows and, and have an AI agent working for me and have my AI chief of staff or whatever.
• 37:37
  Matt Whitermore: Um, and some people do jump in and understand it and I think maybe they're, they're super smart, but it took me a long time and right.
• 37:48
  Matt Whitermore: I think that's where the conflict is, is that people want, people want it, people understand they need it, but I don't think they're necessarily willing to do what it takes to get there or that they don't understand what
• 38:00
  Matt Whitermore: it truly takes to get there.
• 38:02
  Matt Whitermore: And just, it's always going to be this conflict of, right, I got to get ready for next weekend.
• 38:07
  Matt Whitermore: I got to get ready for next season.
• 38:09
  Matt Whitermore: All the things that force you-
• 38:11
  Brian Searl: Which is a fair conflict.
• 38:13
  Matt Whitermore: It is 100% a fair, a fair conflict.
• 38:16
  Matt Whitermore: Um, but I think there are cer- you know, simultaneously and kind of unrelated, there's all these pressures in our industry that are forcing it, right?
• 38:27
  Matt Whitermore: It's a forcing function of, uh, labor costs are exploding, insurance costs are exploding, utility costs are exploding Um, right, m- uh, transient demand is down.
• 38:42
  Matt Whitermore: Our RV sales are down.
• 38:45
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so there's all these, uh, headwinds, right, that are, I think are forcing people to realize that they need to run leaner, uh, they need to control all these costs and find creative ways to drive revenue.
• 39:01
  Matt Whitermore: Um, marketing is, is probably the most mature, established use case of AI.
• 39:08
  Matt Whitermore: Um, it's also the fastest way to lose trust with your, with your campers.
• 39:14
  Matt Whitermore: Um, but I think if you set the right guardrails around it, the world is your oyster in terms of marketing, um, and having an, a very cheap army of, of AI agents and automated workflows really dialing up your
• 39:31
  Matt Whitermore: marketing and that's what I got lost in, right?
• 39:34
  Matt Whitermore: Oper- operating a tiny little campground that made no money, but it was such a special place and people loved it and all the creative things, all the programs, right?
• 39:44
  Matt Whitermore: I could, I could spend 100% of my time as an owner on events, uh, promotions, giveaways, all-- We were talking about social media and influencers and, and partnerships, right?
• 40:01
  Matt Whitermore: I could spend 100 hours a week on creative programming and marketing initiatives and partnerships on a campground that made $150,000 a year gross revenue, you know.
• 40:14
  Matt Whitermore: And it-- That's what the campground needed to get to 200 or 250 or watching some glamping units and we needed all those things to hit the ground running with the new lodging concepts.
• 40:27
  Matt Whitermore: Um, it's just so hard, right?
• 40:29
  Matt Whitermore: And, and this was before I was really truly like AI pilled as, as, uh, the people say and the timing just wasn't right 'cause it would've been completely different now, um, had I had some of these skills.
• 40:44
  Matt Whitermore: Um, I, I really feel for owners, right?
• 40:47
  Matt Whitermore: It's-- And I tell people as it's, it's a joke but it's also 100% serious.
• 40:53
  Matt Whitermore: I've talked to a lot of people coming in from different sectors of commercial real estate and they, they get the money, the money signs in their eyes about, "Oh, uh, buying campgrounds," right?
• 41:04
  Matt Whitermore: "That's buying RV parks, great cash flow."
• 41:08
  Matt Whitermore: And I tell everybody The money is the worst reason to get into outdoor hospitality.
• 41:17
  Matt Whitermore: It should not even be your top 100 reasons.
• 41:20
  Matt Whitermore: Like, if you do it right, the money will come and it can be a very financially rewarding, uh, business to be in, but it's, can't be your top priority, right?
• 41:31
  Matt Whitermore: It's like I always, I always...
• 41:33
  Matt Whitermore: It's, it's, I, I, I feel like I can say this 'cause I come from a real estate background, but I feel like real estate background people, uh, real estate investing are the worst profile for outdoor hospitality investments 'cause
• 41:48
  Matt Whitermore: everything is the spreadsheet.
• 41:50
  Matt Whitermore: It's the dollars and cents.
• 41:51
  Matt Whitermore: It's the cash flow.
• 41:52
  Matt Whitermore: It's what's my re- what's the top, bottom.
• 41:53
  Brian Searl: And it's mostly passive.
• 41:55
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 41:55
  Brian Searl: And campgrounds are not passive.
• 41:57
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 41:58
  Matt Whitermore: And, and I think people-
• 42:00
  Brian Searl: Or they shouldn't be
• 42:01
  Matt Whitermore: that come from, like, consumer goods or technology might be a better fit because, right, it's what, what drives those people is they're building an app or a widget.
• 42:13
  Matt Whitermore: They're solving a problem.
• 42:14
  Sarah Stahl: Mm-hmm.
• 42:14
  Matt Whitermore: And the customer-
• 42:16
  Sarah Stahl: Mm
• 42:16
  Matt Whitermore: the, the future ideal customer, they're solving that problem, and they're, and they're obsessive about that, and they're believing, they have faith that if they solve that problem, then the money will take care of itself.
• 42:28
  Sarah Stahl: Mm.
• 42:28
  Matt Whitermore: And I think you need to have more of that mindset of my one and only priority is guest experience.
• 42:37
  Matt Whitermore: How do I get new people in the door?
• 42:39
  Matt Whitermore: How do I get people to return a- another time in, in years down the road once they come in for the first time?
• 42:46
  Matt Whitermore: And right, you need to be obsessive and relentless about that, and just have faith, and have good business sense.
• 42:54
  Matt Whitermore: Obviously, you need to control your costs, and you need to manage revenue and, and, and be a smart, you know, financial owner.
• 43:03
  Matt Whitermore: But, uh, it can't be, it can't be your number one reason.
• 43:07
  Matt Whitermore: Uh-
• 43:07
  Brian Searl: I was gonna say, and-
• 43:08
  Sarah Stahl: I think, I think you're onto something there, Matt, 'cause I've been having a lot of offline conversations with peers in the industry about, um, why is hospitality behind in, in marketing in certain areas.
• 43:22
  Sarah Stahl: Um, and it's because they don't think of it like e-commerce.
• 43:26
  Sarah Stahl: They're perfectly fine giving up to the OTAs because they're like, "The OTAs will do it for me."
• 43:31
  Sarah Stahl: Where, you know, if you're an investor coming from an e-commerce side, you're gonna look at it very differently, and you're gonna know how to drive your own demand.
• 43:41
  Sarah Stahl: So that's a good point.
• 43:43
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 43:43
  Brian Searl: And I think there's...
• 43:44
  Brian Searl: like, I was gonna say when Matt finished, I was gonna say there's two things, and then maybe there's three.
• 43:49
  Brian Searl: One is I think that time is a limiting factor, a- as you eloquently put it, Matt, but, like, the...
• 43:56
  Brian Searl: just to add a little bit onto that, right?
• 43:58
  Brian Searl: I think there's probably a whole lot more people in our industry who want to have more hospitality but have no time-
• 44:05
  Sarah Stahl: Hmm
• 44:05
  Brian Searl: especially the mom-and-pop properties, right?
• 44:08
  Brian Searl: And I think-
• 44:08
  Matt Whitermore: Totally
• 44:09
  Brian Searl: you know, you mentioned and highlighted a bunch of this stuff.
• 44:11
  Brian Searl: We don't need to go back over it, uh, specifically related to that, Matt.
• 44:14
  Brian Searl: You did a good job with that.
• 44:15
  Brian Searl: Um, but I think that's, that's the number one problem is, "Yeah, I wanna get out there, and I wanna meet my guests more, but I don't understand how to change.
• 44:22
  Brian Searl: I haven't seen a vendor who's helping me with that.
• 44:24
  Brian Searl: The association isn't teaching me that.
• 44:26
  Brian Searl: I don't have time to learn all that myself, and even if I did, I've gotta be able to trust other people to tell me what's happening."
• 44:34
  Brian Searl: And I'll get to that part in a second, right?
• 44:36
  Brian Searl: But so that's number one.
• 44:37
  Brian Searl: And number two is I think the way...
• 44:39
  Brian Searl: And I, to some extent, I hope I'm wrong, but also I hope I'm right, which maybe makes me a good person or a bad person, depending on what hat I'm wearing for the day.
• 44:47
  Brian Searl: But I think that where the economy is going with...
• 44:50
  Brian Searl: Let's just take your one, and we've talked about this extensively on Outwired and other shows, so we don't wanna delve into, to the, you know, what may be a bad year in 2027.
• 44:59
  Brian Searl: But just take the pricing that you mentioned, Matt, the increases of everything.
• 45:03
  Brian Searl: Uh, somebody was messaging me this morning saying they talked to a woman whose health insurance is gonna be $3,000 a month next year.
• 45:09
  Brian Searl: Their own health insurance for one person is gonna be $1,500 a month next year.
• 45:14
  Brian Searl: And then you've got gas and diesel and electricity and insurance and food and everything else that's going up by s- 10 to 50% just in the last year alone in some of those cases.
• 45:27
  Brian Searl: And I think that the only good thing that's gonna come out of that...
• 45:31
  Brian Searl: It's kinda like the, the one good thing that came out of COVID was more people went camping and outside, but you don't want COVID to happen again, right?
• 45:37
  Brian Searl: Nobody wants a down economy to happen.
• 45:40
  Brian Searl: But I think the one good thing that may come out of it is that kind of updraft of forcing some of these owners to say, "Well, I've gotta do things differently.
• 45:48
  Brian Searl: I can't keep doing the status quo anymore because the math just doesn't work anymore And then the third thing is, and then I'll let you guys comment on it, uh, is I think the answer is not-- like, the
• 45:59
  Brian Searl: owner is never gonna be able to learn all this stuff themselves.
• 46:02
  Brian Searl: They've got to be able to have people that they trust or organizations they trust or companies they trust that can help them along the way.
• 46:09
  Brian Searl: I think that we have, and this is not unique to our industry by any stretch of the imagination, and as I say this, I'm not speaking about one person or one group or one company or one association.
• 46:19
  Brian Searl: I'm doing this on a macro level, right?
• 46:22
  Brian Searl: I think that the owner has to do their part.
• 46:25
  Brian Searl: They have to be willing to learn, one, which I think I would guess that most of them probably are.
• 46:31
  Brian Searl: It's just a time limiting factor or an economic li- limiting factor, right?
• 46:36
  Brian Searl: Uh, I think they need companies that are willing to truly educate them in what they can do versus just sell to them, and I think there are some good companies out there that are trying to do that.
• 46:47
  Brian Searl: I think there are some that aren't or likewise to the owners, don't have the time or capacity or mandate to do that from whoever owns them, right?
• 46:56
  Brian Searl: Uh, but I think they need companies who can do that because if you have companies, and I'll pick on Sherise and I'll give her a compliment, but I'll say like if you have companies that are releasing innovation and
• 47:05
  Brian Searl: features to the extent that Camp- CampGuide is, then you don't need to lie to somebody at a trade show booth and say, "I have something."
• 47:12
  Brian Searl: You have it.
• 47:13
  Brian Searl: Or you say, "No, I don't have that, but I've got six other things," right?
• 47:18
  Brian Searl: And so I think that's the answer to the company's piece of it, and then the other piece of it is the associations.
• 47:25
  Brian Searl: And we have lots of educational sessions when you go to different conferences on a national, state, provincial level, and some of them are really good.
• 47:35
  Brian Searl: Probably most of them are really good, right?
• 47:37
  Brian Searl: But it tends to be in my experience, and this is over sixteen years of, again, macro level, is that we have a lot of really smart people in this industry willing to talk about a really sm- really wide
• 47:49
  Brian Searl: variety of topics.
• 47:51
  Brian Searl: But then once you find somebody good at an association level, you tend to have that same person back to talk about the same thing year after year after year after year after year because it's an easy thing to
• 48:02
  Brian Searl: plug into your schedule and you don't have to worry about it.
• 48:04
  Brian Searl: You don't have to go out and find a speaker for something your members are asking you for or you think they need because you just take the applications and fill them up as quickly as possible, or in some
• 48:14
  Brian Searl: smaller cases, whoever happens to wanna write you a big fat check.
• 48:20
  Brian Searl: So I'll leave you with all those three things, whoever wants to take something.
• 48:25
  Sarah Stahl: I do wanna say I don't think the big fat check is such a small case.
• 48:29
  Sarah Stahl: Um, I-- that's actually my frustration with, um, not just the hospitality industry, but in general, like the speakers are paying to be there, and they end up being sales pitches, and that's not education.
• 48:43
  Brian Searl: I mean, it could be, but it's generally not.
• 48:45
  Brian Searl: You're right
• 48:46
  Sarah Stahl: No, it could be.
• 48:47
  Sarah Stahl: They should use the opportunity, but that's not what's happening by and large.
• 48:54
  Brian Searl: So how do we fix that?
• 48:56
  Brian Searl: Like, is it...
• 48:57
  Brian Searl: I mean, obviously it's at an association level to fix it.
• 48:59
  Brian Searl: It's not a we, this people in this room-
• 49:01
  Sarah Stahl: Mm-hmm
• 49:01
  Brian Searl: to fix it, right?
• 49:03
  Brian Searl: But is it fixable other than to have some new AI native association startup come out of the woodwork and just do it right?
• 49:11
  Sarah Stahl: Um, I'm a very optimistic person- but I'm gonna have to go with Matt's pessimism here.
• 49:16
  Sarah Stahl: Um, because at the end of the day, everything comes down to, I need to make money on this.
• 49:22
  Sarah Stahl: And, you know, that's why the folks that pay the most get the stages because the association needs to make money off, off of that.
• 49:30
  Sarah Stahl: They, they wanna grow bigger because they have agendas, and they also have grants or whatever that they're trying to fund for the industry.
• 49:38
  Sarah Stahl: So, um, I really hear and see your heart here, Brian, and I think the more folks who share, um, your heart, you know, and I think that there's a lot of us in the industry who do.
• 49:52
  Sarah Stahl: I think that that's an important alliance to make.
• 49:55
  Sarah Stahl: But if you're looking at the big picture, trying to s- brush stroke a solution, at the end of the day, people are people, and they're all trying to make money.
• 50:05
  Brian Searl: But can't you do both?
• 50:07
  Brian Searl: Can't you make your own and-
• 50:07
  Sarah Stahl: Oh, yes, 100% Yeah you can do both.
• 50:10
  Sarah Stahl: But, um, I was under the impression we're talking about the, the, uh, the, the big picture and-
• 50:17
  Brian Searl: We are.
• 50:17
  Brian Searl: We are
• 50:18
  Sarah Stahl: I don't, I don't know-
• 50:19
  Brian Searl: But if, if there is somebody who just-
• 50:19
  Sarah Stahl: if it's possible for the whole to function that way
• 50:23
  Brian Searl: Maybe not.
• 50:25
  Brian Searl: But I'm gonna be-
• 50:25
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah, um-
• 50:26
  Brian Searl: optimistic and I'll say like, "I hope so."
• 50:28
  Brian Searl: Uh, I, I think that I'm hopeful that AI is going to be such a game changer.
• 50:34
  Matt Whitermore: Mm.
• 50:34
  Brian Searl: It's going to allow people who never would have had money to start an association, start a company, develop an app develop software, get funding, own a campground, whatever else, that it is going to allow such a broader pool
• 50:48
  Brian Searl: of people into the industry that by its very-
• 50:51
  Sarah Stahl: Mm
• 50:51
  Brian Searl: percentage nature someone will have to come out of the woodwork
• 50:55
  Sarah Stahl: Mm that does it.
• 50:56
  Sarah Stahl: That you're saying the folks that don't have a voice are gonna have a voice?
• 51:00
  Brian Searl: I hope so.
• 51:01
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah.
• 51:02
  Sarah Stahl: I agree with that.
• 51:03
  Sarah Stahl: I, I hope so for that too.
• 51:05
  Brian Searl: I mean, social media democratized that a little bit, right?
• 51:08
  Sarah Stahl: Mm-hmm.
• 51:09
  Sarah Stahl: 100%.
• 51:09
  Brian Searl: Or at least early social media did.
• 51:11
  Brian Searl: So.
• 51:12
  Sarah Stahl: I think it's still alive and well.
• 51:14
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 51:15
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah.
• 51:16
  Brian Searl: Sherise, Matt, any comments?
• 51:19
  Sherise Gumbs: There's a lot of things I kinda wanna touch on a little bit.
• 51:22
  Sherise Gumbs: So, um, at the beginning, like, closer to the beginning we, we talked a little bit about how AI would, will change things a lot.
• 51:31
  Sherise Gumbs: I think it will, and I think it's gonna change things in two different ways.
• 51:34
  Sherise Gumbs: Number one, there's gonna be that force to have better UI, better experience for the people who don't wanna build, and then I think it's also going to allow people who want to build these things to do better.
• 51:43
  Sherise Gumbs: Now, the major, I think, barrier to entry is that AI is so expensive, and I think that's the same barrier of entry that I think is go- is part of what we're seeing in those conferences where well, there's
• 51:57
  Sherise Gumbs: such a major barrier of entry to even attend those conferences.
• 52:00
  Sherise Gumbs: Like, I'm just looking at my next year.
• 52:02
  Sherise Gumbs: I'm about to spend over $20,000 just attending conferencing.
• 52:06
  Sarah Stahl: Good point.
• 52:06
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 52:06
  Brian Searl: That's part of the reason I'm staying home.
• 52:08
  Brian Searl: It's cheaper.
• 52:11
  Sherise Gumbs: I will say a lot of those companies, number...
• 52:13
  Sherise Gumbs: it's like that never ending cycle where it's like in order to get customers you have to spend so much money that you're, you can run out of money before you're able to continue.
• 52:22
  Sherise Gumbs: Or for the people that can fund it, that changes things where it's like, "Okay, I'm a supplier, I already have the people.
• 52:27
  Sherise Gumbs: I'm just gonna keep throwing money into these conferences to get there."
• 52:30
  Sherise Gumbs: So I think we're gonna s- likely see that balance out a little bit, but my hope is that these conferences take the people who are willing to pay money, yes, they still have th- their parts, but then also
• 52:42
  Sherise Gumbs: spend that money that you're getting in on those little niche areas to bring in some guest speakers who have a little bit different of a, different of an experience.
• 52:52
  Sarah Stahl: Hm.
• 52:54
  Sarah Stahl: I like it.
• 52:57
  Brian Searl: Man,
• 52:57
  Matt Whitermore: I think everything is so, everything's so political with, with the, uh, with the associations, um, which is a shame.
• 53:05
  Matt Whitermore: Um-
• 53:07
  Brian Searl: And, and just to be clear, we're not saying all.
• 53:09
  Brian Searl: We're saying, like, on a macro level we're speaking, right?
• 53:12
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 53:13
  Matt Whitermore: No, I, I've n- you know.
• 53:15
  Sarah Stahl: That was believable.
• 53:16
  Matt Whitermore: I'm, I'm an, I'm, I'm an outsider.
• 53:19
  Brian Searl: Well, I, I know a couple good association leaders who really do a great...
• 53:22
  Brian Searl: I, I mean, honestly, so.
• 53:24
  Matt Whitermore: No, for sure.
• 53:26
  Sarah Stahl: Yeah.
• 53:26
  Matt Whitermore: For sure, and I think there's good value there overall.
• 53:29
  Matt Whitermore: Um, but I think an educational, uh, I think we're onto something here, that an educational piece just for the sake of education would be a huge boost, right?
• 53:40
  Matt Whitermore: There's some really good sessions, and there were some really good speakers, uh, on technology and marketing, but it's always, it's always through the lens of, "Look at my shiny new toy.
• 53:51
  Matt Whitermore: Look at our new release.
• 53:52
  Matt Whitermore: Look at our..."
• 53:53
  Matt Whitermore: Right?
• 53:54
  Matt Whitermore: You know, it's, and it, sure, like, that makes sense.
• 53:57
  Matt Whitermore: It's always part of a sales pitch or, or a precursor to a sales pitch.
• 54:02
  Matt Whitermore: Um, you know, I think there's some really good programs like, um, you know, the s- the school, what's the school program, um, that, um, OHI does?
• 54:14
  Matt Whitermore: Uh, it's like a, they give out scholarships.
• 54:17
  Brian Searl: Oh, yeah, National School.
• 54:18
  Brian Searl: I d- I don't know if there's another name besides National School, but.
• 54:20
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 54:20
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right?
• 54:21
  Matt Whitermore: Like, stuff like that's great.
• 54:22
  Matt Whitermore: I think more offerings like that where it's just education for the sake of education, and, and we keep, keep the sales pitch out of it and keep, keep the, the, you know, the selfish me- selfish messaging out of
• 54:36
  Matt Whitermore: it.
• 54:37
  Matt Whitermore: Um, right, everything-
• 54:39
  Brian Searl: I will tell you that that's one of the things that I like about KOA, and I, and, and they don't let me-
• 54:44
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah
• 54:44
  Brian Searl: when I go to the conference, like, they don't let me come into the education sessions 'cause I'm typically there as a journalist to cover it, but I'm also a vendor.
• 54:51
  Brian Searl: Um, but generally they only let their own staff, for the most part, teach those sessions, and I think that actually is a strength of KOA.
• 55:00
  Matt Whitermore: Totally.
• 55:02
  Brian Searl: Cause they've already got you.
• 55:03
  Brian Searl: They're not trying to sell you anything, right?
• 55:05
  Brian Searl: I mean, they're trying to keep you there, but you understand what I'm saying.
• 55:08
  Matt Whitermore: Right.
• 55:09
  Brian Searl: But sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 55:10
  Brian Searl: Continue.
• 55:11
  Matt Whitermore: No, that, I mean, that was the complete thought.
• 55:13
  Matt Whitermore: Uh, it, it just...
• 55:15
  Matt Whitermore: Right?
• 55:16
  Matt Whitermore: There's so much good stuff there, um, but it's always, you know, what's the, uh, what's the, what is it?
• 55:23
  Matt Whitermore: Cui, cui bono?
• 55:25
  Matt Whitermore: Who, who benefits?
• 55:26
  Matt Whitermore: You know, it's always like, what's the motivation?
• 55:28
  Matt Whitermore: What's the, uh, what's, what's the reasoning behind this?
• 55:32
  Matt Whitermore: And it, it makes me question, right, is, is there an opportunity for, uh, truly just education for, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships kinda, kinda philosophy.
• 55:47
  Matt Whitermore: Um, and I think there's a little bit of that, but it could go a lot further, right?
• 55:52
  Matt Whitermore: Marketing workshops, technology workshops, um, you know, without it always just being some sort of vendor showcase.
• 56:01
  Brian Searl: But again, we go back, everything circles back to expectations, right?
• 56:05
  Brian Searl: I don't, I don't think there are any people, there are some people, I don't think there are a majority of people banging down the doors of the association saying, "We want different education."
• 56:14
  Brian Searl: So if they had that expectation, or if they...
• 56:17
  Brian Searl: And again, it shouldn't really be on them.
• 56:19
  Brian Searl: You sh- I- in, in this specific narrow thing that we're talking about, right, the association in theory would know its members better than anyone else, and I've said this to people for years, right?
• 56:28
  Brian Searl: And would go out and be like, "Okay, well, we're gonna open calls for submissions for classes, but we've already got 80% of them full 'cause we know what our members have asked us all year, and we went out
• 56:37
  Brian Searl: and found the best possible people we can in our industry or external to our industry if they don't exist in our industry to speak on this specific topic," is how I think it should work.
• 56:48
  Brian Searl: That's how we ran the National Canadian virtual one.
• 56:52
  Brian Searl: Now, granted, virtual was a whole lot easier in 2021 than flying everybody in and getting everybody to be there in person 'cause they can appear from anywhere.
• 57:00
  Brian Searl: But, uh, I think that just, I think that's a base responsibility of an association.
• 57:06
  Brian Searl: I don't...
• 57:07
  Brian Searl: Maybe I'm just not seeing something.
• 57:09
  Brian Searl: And I'm, and again, there are associations who do that well in our industry.
• 57:13
  Brian Searl: I don't think all of them do.
• 57:16
  Matt Whitermore: Agreed.
• 57:18
  Brian Searl: All right, let's, uh, we've got a couple more minutes here.
• 57:20
  Brian Searl: We wrapped up.
• 57:20
  Brian Searl: I think, I think we must have said something to irritate Sarah.
• 57:22
  Brian Searl: She left.
• 57:25
  Brian Searl: Um, probably had internet connection issues, but, uh, let's wrap up and just say, uh, uh, Sherise, do you have any questions for Matt?
• 57:31
  Brian Searl: Or Matt, do you have any questions for Sherise?
• 57:33
  Brian Searl: We normally would've gone around the table, but there's only two of you here now.
• 57:37
  Sherise Gumbs: I'll let Matt go first.
• 57:39
  Matt Whitermore: Um, how, how...
• 57:41
  Matt Whitermore: When did you, uh, found CampGuide?
• 57:45
  Sherise Gumbs: Officially, I would say about two months ago
• 57:48
  Matt Whitermore: Oh, wow.
• 57:49
  Matt Whitermore: Okay, cool
• 57:50
  Sherise Gumbs: So we're, we're mostly l- new.
• 57:52
  Sherise Gumbs: Yeah I'm definitely curious to learn more about...
• 57:55
  Sherise Gumbs: Is, is it pronounced Travo?
• 57:58
  Matt Whitermore: Travo.
• 57:58
  Matt Whitermore: Travo.
• 57:59
  Sherise Gumbs: Travo.
• 57:59
  Sherise Gumbs: Okay.
• 58:00
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 58:00
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 58:00
  Sherise Gumbs: Yeah.
• 58:01
  Sherise Gumbs: I think AI naming is, there's, there's like s- so many different changes coming in the space, and I'm so curious to see how everyone's using, like, the same tools as well.
• 58:12
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 58:13
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah, it's, it's a good question.
• 58:14
  Matt Whitermore: Um, so what, uh, what would you say is your biggest differentiator from, uh, from the rest of the crowd of, uh, campground PMSs?
• 58:23
  Brian Searl: You didn't hear, man?
• 58:24
  Brian Searl: She said she did- you don't have to upload a CSV to change your rates.
• 58:29
  Sherise Gumbs: The level of detail-
• 58:29
  Brian Searl: Sorry
• 58:30
  Sarah Stahl: the level of detail that's allowed i- or that's in each feature, and then also the ability to customize and fully own every part of your thing.
• 58:40
  Sarah Stahl: You don't have to com- l- like you never have to contact support.
• 58:43
  Sarah Stahl: Even if you're just like, "I wanna add another feature," you can just do that yourself.
• 58:47
  Sarah Stahl: There's...
• 58:48
  Sarah Stahl: Most of it is not really contacting support.
• 58:50
  Sarah Stahl: Like, the most that our users contact support is, would be just like, "Hey, could we add this feature?
• 58:55
  Sarah Stahl: Like, we have a m- a map."
• 58:57
  Sarah Stahl: And they're like, "Well, I want to also have brick roads."
• 59:00
  Sarah Stahl: I'm like, "Okay, we can do that."
• 59:03
  Sarah Stahl: There's those.
• 59:04
  Sarah Stahl: that's more so what our support experience has been versus it being like, "I wanna change this rate or this thing," you know?
• 59:12
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 59:13
  Brian Searl: Uh, final thoughts, Matt, and then where can they learn more about Travo?
• 59:17
  Matt Whitermore: Uh, final thoughts.
• 59:20
  Matt Whitermore: Um, a lot of interesting topics today.
• 59:24
  Matt Whitermore: You know, I'm, I'm hopeful for our industry.
• 59:27
  Matt Whitermore: I think, right, it's the most important thing.
• 59:30
  Matt Whitermore: It's filled with people who care and, and who, who wanna see the best for everybody else.
• 59:35
  Matt Whitermore: That's what always, uh, drew me into this industry and, and kept me, you know, wanting to stay in it.
• 59:41
  Matt Whitermore: Um, you know, so I'm, I'm hopeful for the future as, as much as maybe I came off as a pessimist, uh, in, in the discussions.
• 59:51
  Matt Whitermore: But, uh, I'm actually pretty hopeful and, um, you can find out more about Travo at travoai.com.
• 59:57
  Matt Whitermore: Again, we're a AI-native commercial real estate brokerage, uh, and we're representing some, uh, some buyers and acquirers of RV parks and campgrounds and developers of glamping, uh, and, and outdoor lodging concepts.
• 1:00:13
  Matt Whitermore: So if, uh, you feel like you could use some help in finding your next site, uh, definitely reach out.
• 1:00:20
  Matt Whitermore: You can, you know, reach me on LinkedIn, you can reach me at matt@travoai.com, and we'd love to jump in and show you w- what we can do to help you locate your next site.
• 1:00:30
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Matt.
• 1:00:31
  Brian Searl: And yeah, I agree with you, like everybody calls me a pessimist.
• 1:00:34
  Brian Searl: I'm just more- of a realist.
• 1:00:36
  Brian Searl: But I think where this goes is outdoor hospitality is one of the most important businesses on the planet.
• 1:00:41
  Brian Searl: Totally.
• 1:00:41
  Brian Searl: 100%.
• 1:00:41
  Brian Searl: Because I think everybody's gonna try- everybody's gonna need to disconnect from technology, and there's no more real place than sitting by a river underneath trees or next to a mountain.
• 1:00:50
  Brian Searl: And I think that makes us campgrounds and RV parks and glamping resorts one of the most important things in society for the next- 100% 100 years.
• 1:00:58
  Matt Whitermore: Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  Brian Searl: Sherise, final thoughts.
• 1:00:59
  Brian Searl: Where can they learn more about CampGuide?
• 1:01:01
  Sherise Gumbs: Um, you can learn more about CampGuide by going to our website, campguide.app.
• 1:01:05
  Sherise Gumbs: Um, it's software.campguide.app.
• 1:01:07
  Sherise Gumbs: And, you know, I feel like I have really strong opinions about it, but I don't think there's any major negative in the industry either.
• 1:01:16
  Sherise Gumbs: I think there's just some, I guess, inherent differences in how some people would run things than the others.
• 1:01:25
  Sherise Gumbs: Um, I think that we are all just trying to make- open our doors to more campers, and we're just all trying to make ends meet at the end of the day.
• 1:01:33
  Sherise Gumbs: So I'll say that, and I'll hand it back over to you, Brian.
• 1:01:38
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:01:38
  Brian Searl: Well, thank you, uh, Sherise, uh, Matt, and Sarah.
• 1:01:42
  Brian Searl: Hopefully we didn't really offend her.
• 1:01:44
  Brian Searl: Uh, she just lost her internet connection.
• 1:01:45
  Brian Searl: But, uh, we- for- S- Sarah will be here, uh, next month with us as well on week number four, so we're excited to have her as a recurring guest.
• 1:01:52
  Brian Searl: Thank you, everybody, for joining us on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 1:01:55
  Brian Searl: There's no Outwired today.
• 1:01:56
  Brian Searl: Scott and I are taking the week off.
• 1:01:57
  Brian Searl: Gonna be off next week too, although we'll both be in Vancouver for the Canadian Outdoor Hospitality Conference and Expo.
• 1:02:03
  Brian Searl: But, uh, other than that, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 1:02:07
  Brian Searl: Take care, guys.
• 1:02:08
  Brian Searl: I appreciate it.
• 1:02:09
  Matt Whitermore: Thank you.