Latest / The Science of Skin / Who We Are, Trends, and What’s to Come

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Who We Are, Trends, and What’s to Come · The Science of Skin

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Dr.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris, and I'm a board certified dermatologist.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Dr.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ted Lane, and I'm also a board certified dermatologist.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And Dr.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Ferris and I are the co-hosts of this podcast, Skin Care Confidential.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: In addition, we started a skincare focused educational meeting called the Science of Skin Care Summit.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh in its third year now, happening September 22nd and 23rd in Austin, Texas, at the Hotel Van Zant.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Love to see you there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can register and learn more about it at www.scienceofskincare summit.com.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Patty, this is our first one.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're super, it's we're super excited.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Ted and I decided to sort of take our show on the road, I guess, and so we'd have a little bit more re outreach for the Science of Skin Care Summit.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're really hoping to bring uh with this podcast is a real insider's view of the skincare industry.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we will be, of course, interviewing dermatologists and people uh professionals who are uh in the know about topical skincare, but we're also gonna be talking to industry insiders.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll be speaking to CEOs, we'll be speaking to formulators, we'll be speaking to people who really are the trailblazers for what's trending in topical skincare.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have research scientists, we're going to have marketing people.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're we're super lucky to be very well connected in the skincare industry after all of our years uh of interest in this area.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this is gonna be a very unique opportunity for healthcare professionals, for anyone who's a skincare junkie, or just people who are interested in what's trending and what's happening in topical skincare.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think the name says it all, right?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to give people an insider's look at the skincare industry.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know,$2 billion worth of skincare were sold just in the United States last year, and we expect growth this year, even despite some economic headwinds.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Patty, I really think that this is going to be just an incredible opportunity for people inside and outside the industry to really understand the nitty-gritty, how it all works, who the decision makers are, how ingredients are found, how formulations are conceived, and then how they find themselves onto the shelves.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Onto a shelf, yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things I always say is that dermatology is one of the specialties where medicine meets mass market.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we are very uniquely positioned as dermatologists to be interfacing with major consumer companies, and you and I have done it for a very long time, and it it really is very exciting because we'll get into a room as consultants and start brainstorming about an idea, and then a year later, two years later, there's a product on the shelf.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: It came from the very ideas that the dermatologists in the room put forward.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been for me one of the most rewarding parts of my medical career is just being able to be that impactful, especially in the consumer market.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I remember when I was interviewing for a medical school, I first I interviewed for an MD PhD program, and I was interviewing for the PhD part of it, and a PhD scientist said to me, you know, why would you not want to do a PhD?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you develop something, you can help the entire globe, for example, which was totally overwhelming for a young guy.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is with this now, just like you said, we're able to really affect and and help so many people just by bringing innovative products that will that will help and that are needed uh for dermatologic care.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also thinking about the the recent Neutrogena launch, right, Patty, that that you and I both kind of worked with them on.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to us about that one.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so exciting.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing that I find about the cosmetic industry is they're so nimble and they're so quick and they're so good at responding to consumer demands.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as a dermatologist, we get asked all the time about supplements.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a very big part of health and wellness for most patients.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they want to know is there something I should be taking?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, collagen right now is all the rage.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so to see a major consumer company like Neutrogena come out with a line of individualized nutraceuticals that can help you with the appearance of your skin is just, in my opinion, it's cutting edge and cool and and again, very, very forward thinking of them.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love the company.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've always loved that company.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: They they've always done great things.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, I think we should take a step back and maybe introduce ourselves because this is our first one.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should tell everybody who we are and and why we are doing what we're doing.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you go first?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is who we are, right here.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: We get together and it's like it's like uh gasoline in a match.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I have 35 years of clinical experience, as you know.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm your Ted Sr.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I became interested in topical skin care very early in my career.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there were several things that happened that really changed the entire trajectory of my medical career.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Number one was I was walking through the exhibit hall at the American Academy of Dermatology, and I saw these pictures on a booth that the patient's skin looked, you know, as sun damaged as it could have possibly been.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was a one-year follow-up that was like so dramatic.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I stopped at the booth and I said, What did that?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was Sheldon Pennell.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was his booth when he was just launching his line of new cosmeceuticals.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he looked at me and he said, Topical vitamin C.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Really?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: How?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then he just kind of looked at me and he just schooled me right up.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: He told me what vitamin C did, he told me about antioxidants.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like the stupidest person on the exhibit hall floor.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: But what did I know?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was super young and I was just like, wow.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that just blew my mind, to be totally honest with you, because before that, we had to do chemical peels, we had to do major laser resurfacing, we we didn't have that much.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had dermabrasion.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about like the dark ages of dermatology, but that's how we did it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't even have retinnoids at that point.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then retinoids came in, and I remember as clearly as day somebody asking me to give my very first talk of the AAD was on this title was Retinol, Does It Work?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I had to go figure that out because I wasn't sure if retinol worked at that time.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to go and I reached out to Johnson ⁇ Johnson because they were they had retin A and they were also in the retinol business.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I just became friends with some of the researchers there, and they were like, Oh, yeah, we've got this study and we've got that study.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so that was my very first time on the podium at the AAD was talking about retinols, and like most people didn't believe what I said because they only thought the prescription, retinoic acid or tretinoin, worked.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't believe retinol worked, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: But there was plenty of data back then.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So those two events alone changed the trajectory.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I all of a sudden realized if people can make products that you can buy over the counter that can do this kind of stuff, like it's game on.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is a everything changed for me right there.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, and here we are.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just read that tretinoin um celebrated its 50-year anniversary as an RX product, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Unbelievable.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And just think about dermatology before tretinoin.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was just pondering this last night.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, gosh, you know, how much it has changed our specialty and how we can treat patients in so many different conditions.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as you mentioned, tretinoin certainly has the aesthetic benefits of increasing collagen production, increasing glycosaminoglycan production as well.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: But we also have the anti-cancer benefits, the the minimizing pore size, the reduction in hyperpigmentation.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's just really runs the gamut of skin quality improvement.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's an unbelievable, it's like an aspirin for general medicine.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Tretinoin is our aspirin, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and antioxidants as well, with many of the same benefits.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, you know, you're 100% right.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um before tretinoin, I I don't you well, you know, tretinoin came out I'm sure it's 50 years ago.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and then I mean, we've had so many reiterations of it too, and so many new products coming into the marketplace.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: There was tazerotine and it just went on and went on.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, sort of going back to topical skincare, I think one of the things that we're seeing as a sort of trend is dermatologists, more of them embracing topical skincare.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think more people are interested, consumers, and that means our patients coming in looking for solutions that they can easily access.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's wonderful to be able to give someone a prescription, but you've got to get their prescription approved.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, tretinoin's so hard to get approved.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So are all of our topicals, many of our acne meds we can't get approved.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what we're seeing is that there is becoming this niche for topical products that are highly efficacious and can really be used to treat various dermatologic problems.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And even our inflammatory skin disorders, like our psoriasis patients, our eczema patients, they're looking for OTC solutions as well.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we know we know prescriptions are required for those that have more severe cases.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that goes without saying.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: But there's plenty of really interesting and innovative things in the marketplace now.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's talk about topical probiotics and let's talk about baumotherapy and the things that we learned, both of us, going to La Roche-Possa and just what water that can affect your microbiome can do for a patient with eczema psoriasis.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: It that's unbelievable to me.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really harnessing the body's ability to heal itself, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just by using products that are are biologic.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I think of tretinoin as a biologic product.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: There are retinoic acid receptors in the keratinocides ready to transcribe DNA and affect change.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And just yeah, and you know, there's new uh biologic products that are, excuse me, prescription products that are like that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about Vitama, which is uh uh an agonist, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's an aryl hydrocarbon receptor agonist.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And rarely do we ever really harness something for good in the body.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everything else is antagonizing, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, antibodies or receptor blockers.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: But here we have an agonist.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so so it's really interesting where we're going now, both with the prescription uh prescriptions that we can use topically for these inflammatory skin diseases, as well as what we're doing on the OTC space.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really where my interest lies, honestly, and how I got into it is that intersection with Rx and OTC.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was I've been really interested in how we can use OTC to complement as a junk as adjunctive therapy RX, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and as I've done, I do a lot of clinical trials, and as I've done the clinical trials, I've realized, you know, we can get these medicines approved, but the payers, it's really difficult to get payers to cover them.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's just more frustrating, and it's tens of millions of dollars to get these things approved, and yet if they're not covered by the payers, they are they sit in a no-man's land.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's even more important, as you said, for us to use and help these companies produce these OTC products that are highly efficacious for inflammatory skin diseases, in addition to the aesthetic space.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they do both, like retinol, maybe it does both.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: But that's really how I got into uh into the skincare.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Just just that intersection just pulled me in and now I just love it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I started thinking, that's how I started thinking about, you know, we we started talking about the idea for the summit as well, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah, absolutely.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things that I love about the summit is we're not just uh educating physicians, we're educating a lot of physicians there, but we're also educating people in their offices, we're educating aestheticians, we're educating nurse practitioners.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody who's interested in topical skincare benefits from the content that I think we have.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I think is cool about the meeting is that we also have on the podium many of the same people that we're going to interview here on Skincare Confidential.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, our friends who are scientists, people who test products, people who formulate products.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, don't you feel sometimes when you're sitting in a room with a formulator like they are so smart?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're they're like so and and the scientists as as well.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we come up with sometimes some harebrained ideas like, why don't we put this up with this?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they look at us like, you can't do that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, darn.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: It sounded good.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: It sounded like a great combo.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, just understanding the chemistry, which is something that we don't know as much about.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but just having those people at our summit and having so many people be able to interact with, you know, just people that you normally wouldn't have a touch point with, you know, unless you're a consultant, which we both are.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have that touch point, it's really, I think, a great way to expose a lot of people.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we had some cool panels this year where we had people talking about, you know, how they formulate products and what's the newest, most exciting things.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: We had a whole lot of discussions about things like exosomes and things that are really trending in topical skincare right now.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just great to get an insider's view.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what we hope to do on skincare confidential.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: That that interaction between industry and the dermatologist or and or the aesthetician or the PA, any any HCP that's really involved in topical skincare, the interaction that you have with the formulators and the people in the labs trying to put these ingredients and find these new ingredients is really important because they they have their silo, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where they're they're putting things together, they understand the chemistry.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: We understand what's going on at the bedside, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: What our patients really want, what what society is looking for, what the trends are perhaps.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And by coming together, such as uh in venues like the summit, we can really push forward kind of product development, we can push forward ideas, novel ideas.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure, I'm absolutely sure that, and we'll we'll interview some formulators that were at the summit, that they came back from that with some ideas and uh about where we should go next, uh, and you know, how to put novel ingredients together that we really need, both for aesthetic purposes and for RX purposes or OTC uh purposes.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to see how how the summit helps propel the the industry forward and and plays an integral role.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: That that to me would be such a great success for for the summit.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree more.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the questions they always ask us is what are the unmet needs?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they want to know what we need to make patients better.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and I, you know, when they ask that, I I just always think it it's a very it's a phenomenal thing that again physicians can meet with people who are you know meeting consumer needs right there on the shelf, you know, from the bench top to the shelf.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we we're gonna be really have a really great interview with one of our friends that we're you know, hopefully you'll be able to interview her next week, who's uh been in the trenches in cosmetics for many, many years, who developed a novel molecule, who is you know, like just a complete rock star.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna be super exciting to have her on and listen to like how does that happen?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: How do you develop something that novel?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as everybody out there knows, there's a lot of Me Too products in the marketplace.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody does something really good and then everybody else knocks it off because why wouldn't they?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's great and people are selling a lot of it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: But to have somebody who really develops something novel, um, I think is just super exciting.
• 15:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really exciting.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're kind of skincare nerds, aren't we?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're so excited about these people that produce these novel molecules that are changing people's lives.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, those are like our rock stars, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas other people look at these Instagram and beauty influencers, and that's their rock stars.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you think everybody I guess you're right.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got their own rock star.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I don't know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think we ended up somehow you and I ended up in in sync with our, I guess, passion is the word I'm looking for for topical skincare.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm super excited as we roll out skincare confidential.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, we've got a list of maybe 15 to 20 people that, and we just stopped counting after that, but we've got a list of people that it's is going to be great.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: One of the other things that I think is really interesting is how we're now seeing so many more of the cosmetic companies looking at patients with melanin-rich skin or skin of color and trying to address the needs of those patients.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a whole nother uh segment of the skincare market that's exploding right now.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely exploding, and as well as should.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when we think about, you know, I think we we can even jump into the skincare trends or trends in the skincare and industry that we're seeing right now.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness, thank goodness, attention is finally being paid, much too late, I might add, for pigment-rich skin.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, historically, products have only been formulated for the Caucasians for people with physical.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so finally we're having some some attention paid to skin that is, you know, pigment-rich skin is physiologically a little bit different.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: There are ingredient changes that need to be made, formula changes that need to be made.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um But you and I know it's it's a whole different thing when you're treating patients with dark skin.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna have some people coming on who are experts in skin of color, choosing cosmetics and choosing cosmeceuticals for patients with skin of color.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna we're gonna knock that one out of the park because it's a very important subject.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, most dermatologists, depending on where they train, may not even know skin of color.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was fortunate to live in a city that's very ethnically mixed, and so we saw a lot of darker skin patients, but a lot of places in the country, you know, we're having to teach dermatologists what different skin conditions and diseases look like in darker skin types.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I don't know how much attention is being paid in aesthetician school, for example, or cosmetology school on this, but uh I'm hoping that we get a wide audience of aestheticians as well, because that education needs to get to them.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because you know, they treat all skin types, and they have to understand there's a difference, and you have to be careful.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and different, you know, like we know now, different disease inflammatory diseases present differently in darker skin, and you have to understand that also.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um conditions like rosacea, some of the things that we don't recognize, we can you know, you don't even think about it, it's totally underdiagnosed in the melanin-rich population.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Seberrhea, also, when we think about that, it's just a totally different presentation.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think that is one huge skincare trend.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I think we touched on another one, which is the addition of nutraceuticals to really augment what we're trying to do topically.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um exciting for me because I love nutraceuticals as much as I love cosmoceuticals.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you have been one uh of the the first really to start talking about nutraceuticals and the benefits of nutraceuticals.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most recently you were quoted in a Wall Street Journal article, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and on collagen, and then there wasn't a lot of other people in that article saying much.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Good, but I think collagen uh hydrolysates have got a lot of legs in dermatology.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really do.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's some very good data behind them.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do we wish we had more studies?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing people need to understand is these are cosmetics.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nutraceuticals and cosmoceuticals are not under the purview of the Food and Drug Administration in terms of the degree of scientific rigor.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have to do these super complicated studies.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when companies don't have to do them, they're probably not going to do them.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say when it comes to collagen hydrolysates, we've got tons of data.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to lots of our topical skincare products, I mean, I love the companies that go out and do a double-blind vehicle controlled study.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's cool.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: That really is proof of con not well, I mean, proof in the pudding, as I say.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, sometimes you don't find that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so people have to understand that there's a different bar that's set in the cosmetic industry and in the nutraceutical industry than there is in the pharmaceutical and the prescription topical um market.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, the the bar is is lower just because it has to be.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: There just aren't the dollars there to to fund these huge trials.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that there is even a bar is as a huge uh phenomenon now in in skincare, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Before, skincare and still to this day, tons of small companies push out products with reformulation of ingredients that have been out for a long time.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there is there is no data to support them, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's just the skincare industry.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you really want to look for something that works, you have to look for the data behind it.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and thankfully, we have small and large companies, quite frankly, that are pushing out data that are vehicle controlled, like you mentioned.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that is a development in skincare that I applaud.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think all the dermatologists do, like you said, and and we hope it continues because it's only good for patients and for the industry to be taken more seriously if we get more and more data to support the use of the products.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So when when patients come in and say, you know, they found some indie brand or some internet brand, I always say, you know, if you want products with studies behind them, major consumer companies are generally the ones that are doing that kind of work.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they have more money, they have more resources, they usually have, I mean, it's always amazes me when you go in a cosmetic company how many square feet are dedicated to research and development of products.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you and I've been on all those to all those different places around the world and watch this, the incredible machines that these companies are.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to be bringing that right here to skincare.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Confidential.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of insider's view that we're hoping we'll be able to bring to this podcast.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think we'd be remiss if we didn't include some of the smaller brands started by a single aesthetician, for example, that have been very successful because such a huge part of the industry.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And while there may not be lots of data to support it, they definitely use the the time-tested ingredients.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you know, of course, some of it is marketing, some of it is formulation, and some of it is just uh use case by you know people recommending to their friends.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um we'll include we'll include that absolutely as well.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: We will be interviewing entrepreneurs and disruptors and from small and large companies because the skincare industry includes both large and and very small companies, and and we need to include all of that in our podcast as well.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we 100% well.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I think back again, just looking at skincare trends, one of the things that's been really interesting, and again, I applaud is the fact that we're we're finally starting to get away from hydroquinone, right, Patty?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh hydroquinone, look, there was a recent study to show that hydroquinone absolutely increases a risk of skin cancer, both melanoma and non-melanoma.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's frightening.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we have to, as a specialty, move away from hydroquinone.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not the right thing for our patients.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And in my view, I think you agree.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, luckily, gosh, we've seen some really interesting developments recently, right?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, let's talk about topical antibiotics.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that's probably not the best idea if you use them too long, you develop antibiotic resistance.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Look at this cool endolysin technology, which I don't want to steal anyone's thunder.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about it another time.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there are actually over-the-counter things that can stop us from using topical antibiotics.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is incredible, in my opinion.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's it's a perfect, it's it's perfect, right?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because we talk about trying to restore the microbiome and you know, prevent dysbiosis or the tilt of the microbiome into a more staph aureus-dominated environment.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And now we have this little sniper rifle just for staph aureus.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's unbelievable.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's um, you know, before we think about this thermal spring water, these these postbiotics, for example, that that help, you know, to increase a certain bacteria that that we know is is off often found in the healthy microbiome.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: But we've never really talked about you know using ingredients to to actually change the microbiome by affecting the the pathogenic.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's just mind-boggling to me.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And again, in in a cosmetic product.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: In a cosmetic product meant for atopic dermatitis, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and so that, and with some studies behind it, I think the sky's the limit for that product, and I'm excited to talk about that on the podcast.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, otherwise, what do we think?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's some really interesting peptide technology coming down the pipe, you know, you know, groupings of peptides that before either haven't been found or haven't been been uh formulated together to uh affect change in in the dermal matrix.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um absolutely.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing I think is interesting, and I think people listening would like to know a great deal of what we know about how the skin ages comes from research done, basic science research done by the cosmetic companies.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you were super excited coming back from that talk in Mexico, I believe you were in, and about senescence and the role of senescence in aging.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm just you were so jazzed, and I know how that is.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know how that is because you know, and again, this is research that's coming out of a major cosmetic company, and that's another topic that we're gonna have to hit on the skincare confidential podcast.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: We should probably wrap up because we could sit here and talk all day, but we need to get moving, get recording, and get some of these exciting topics out to our listeners.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we're so grateful for uh our audience, for people who joined us at the Science of Skin Care Summit, for all the researchers who joined us, all the industry people who support us.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: We are we are so blessed to have all these uh people with a common goal, which is to create great skincare products for treating our patients.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, stay tuned to Skin Care Confidential.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get some great content.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for listening.