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The Incredibles and Why Marriages Fall Apart with Cassie Callister · Yes And Land

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  I had a baby, and so I felt like I needed safety
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  and security, but we also felt a lot of pressure
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  from other people to get married because I didn't
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  have, at the time, one trusted adult to talk
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  to. That's so hard. Not one trusted adult. All
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  of my teen years, throughout adulthood. Because
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  he had his whole identity wrapped up into being
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  Mr. Incredible. And then when he couldn't...
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  Then suddenly he like falls apart, right? Loses
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  his job. He's just depressed all the time. He
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  has no idea who he is. The problem is never each
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  other. It should be you two against the problem.
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  Not you two against each other. Nobody owes you
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  anything. But you owe yourself everything. When
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  we are more focused on ourselves, how we're showing
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  up in relationships, and what we're doing to
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  improve ourselves, it's kind of like the domino
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  effect. Everything else just works a little better.
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  And if the outcome doesn't end up being what
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  you want it to be, then you're at least able
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  to process it with a little bit more peace, knowing
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  that you did everything that you could. Welcome
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  to Yes And Land. where we say yes to the reality
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  of yesterday and today, and we say and to the
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  possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow.
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  Welcome, everybody, to our next episode of Yes
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  and Land. We are very excited today for our guest.
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  Our guest today is Cassie Callister. She is a
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  life coach. She has helped coach and assist many
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  people through some really difficult challenges
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  in life, helped them to peel back the layers,
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  make improvements to themselves, and ultimately
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  then make improvements in their relationships.
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  And so we're going to talk today a little bit
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  about that, what it's like to... Do some work
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  on yourself to help make some improvements, understanding
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  more about yourself, which ultimately has benefits
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  to the relationships in our lives. And we're
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  going to do so today through an excellent Disney
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  Pixar movie, which is The Incredibles, which
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  is a great movie. Shows a lot about relationships,
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  right? Yeah. Of Mr. and Mrs. Incredible. So that'll
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  be really fun for us to talk about that today.
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  Yeah. Excited. So as we jump in, Cassie. Tell
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  us a little bit about, let's hear a little bit
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  about your journey. Kind of row it like all the
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  way back. Like help everybody understand like
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  who is Cassie? Where did you come from? So we
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  can kind of see the evolution of your journey.
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  Yeah, thank you. So I grew up around here, typical,
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  you know, Utah gal. I got married really young.
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  And I have my own three kids. I've had two grandbabies.
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  One of them passed away in 2022, but I'm still
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  a Grammy. And I was divorced about eight, nine
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  years ago. And I learned a lot from that, as
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  we all do when it comes to different challenges
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  in life. And I love that we're using the Incredibles
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  today. Because I can look back at my own marriage,
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  even dating experiences since then, and I can
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  relate a lot to that dynamic. And I think a lot
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  of people can. And so I don't know if we'll be
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  getting more into divorce and relationships and
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  things like that. But I can say that looking
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  back on my life, a lot of how I showed up in
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  my marriage was based off of my environment that
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  I grew up in and how I was raised. And so it's
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  been really fun to study the psychology of my
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  own life experiences and study just human behavior
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  in general so that I can better understand my
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  own behaviors, how I showed up in my marriage,
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  how I didn't show up, and I can now help others
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  in their journey. Yeah, which I think is... Such
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  a helpful thing. And, you know, as we talked
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  previously, you know, a lot of times what you're
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  doing is helping people understand more about
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  themselves so that they can stay married. You
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  know, and obviously we're talking about, you're
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  talking about the divorce attorney who I help
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  people, you know, disconnect, like I help them
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  get divorced. But I do think, I think it's a
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  helpful dynamic to see because. And I've said
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  this before on this podcast, but when people
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  come to me and they ask if they should get divorced,
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  I tell them that's their decision, right? I'm
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  not here to tell them they should get divorced.
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  I'm here to help them get divorced if that's
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  the choice they've made, right? If that's where
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  they've arrived to and they've done the work
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  and that's where they need to go, then I'll help
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  them do it. Or if their partner's decided that
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  and they need to navigate it, that's what I help
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  them do. work together, work on themselves and
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  stay together, I mean, honestly, we are all for
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  it. Absolutely. I do think as well that those
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  who do work on themselves can end up being better
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  co -parents as well if they do have to get divorced.
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  Because there's a lot of things that I kind of
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  want to peel back and want to understand a little
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  bit more. So let's go back to... You said you
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  got married young. Tell me more about that. So
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  in your life at that time, what's kind of like
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  the motivations to get married young? What was
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  that experience like when you were getting married
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  young? Yeah. So I can only speak to my experience.
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  And at that time, I was 18 years old and I had
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  a baby. And so I felt like. I needed safety and
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  security, but we also felt a lot of pressure
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  from other people to get married. And after all,
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  like the father of my children and my ex -husband,
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  we grew up together. And so he was my best buddy.
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  Sure. And so I thought, oh, yeah, this is a great
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  idea. You know, like I had already graduated
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  high school early, started to put myself through
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  college. And right in the beginning, I thought,
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  well. This is going to be me by myself raising
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  this child for who knows how long. And so originally
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  I picked a career based off of that. But then
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  with time, he decided to propose and with a little
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  pressure and not even really knowing what to
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  do because we're kids. Like you don't know what
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  to look for. You don't know how to date consciously.
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  You don't know what questions to ask each other.
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  basing a lot of things off of just your feelings
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  in that moment. And so today, that is one thing
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  I help others do because I work with a lot of
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  people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s who still
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  don't know how to navigate relationships. And
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  that's where I was at at 18. You get married
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  for a lot of the wrong reasons because you don't
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  know what you're doing. But then when you have
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  challenges arise or you realize that maybe you're
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  not quite compatible. then what do you do? And
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  so we didn't quite have the tools to navigate
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  that. And so, yeah, I was able to learn a lot
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  afterwards. Yeah. What would you do to coach
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  your 18 -year -old self knowing what you know
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  now? You can't go back and change it because
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  that's part of what made you who you are. But
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  if you were coaching somebody in that situation,
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  how would you coach them? Yeah. I think a lot
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  of my decisions personally stemmed from a lack
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  of self -love. Okay. A lot of my relationship
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  choices and just decisions I made in general.
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  At that time in my life, probably from age 13
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  and on and after divorce. And so it's so important
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  that we teach our kids how to love themselves
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  and what that looks like, boundaries and what
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  you're OK with and not OK with and just what
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  you deserve. And so if I were to coach myself
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  at that time, I would say to slow down. And get
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  to know yourself first. And ask if you genuinely
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  love yourself or if you are seeking people and
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  things outside of yourself to feel that. And
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  I would really, we can't give what we don't have.
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  So if I don't love myself. how can I fully love
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  another person in the way that they deserve?
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  And how can I fully show up in a way that serves
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  us both? And so what that looked like for me
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  in my marriage is, yes, I got married young.
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  I didn't know who I was. I didn't really know
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  what I wanted in life. But at the time, I had
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  this gorgeous baby. I was getting my education.
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  It seemed like the best thing to do. But there's
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  no... There was no deadline. I didn't need to
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  make a decision. And so I would also coach myself
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  to slow down, figure things out, make sure that
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  this is right for you. Maybe go to therapy or
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  get a coach because I didn't have at the time
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  one trusted adult to talk to. That's so hard.
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  Not one trusted adult. All of my teen years throughout
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  adulthood. Really, it just was a negative thing.
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  Therapy and coaching was a negative thing. And
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  so I felt like I had to internalize it and process
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  it all on my own. And I honestly didn't know
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  how. And so. I'm sure we'll get to this. So in
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  my marriage, I didn't know how to communicate.
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  And I also didn't have enough self -love to make
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  sure that I got into a relationship that was
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  best for me and with the qualities that were
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  best for me and healthy. Yeah. When we talk about
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  having the self -love. So what's your advice
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  there for somebody, again, in that similar situation
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  to find that? Because I do think that that's
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  something that we hear more about these days
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  that honestly, when I was growing up, we didn't.
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  I mean, when I was that age, that was not something
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  that was like in vogue at all. Now I think it
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  is, but I still think that there's this missing
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  component of like, what does that mean? How do
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  you do it? How do you find more of that love
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  for who you are so that you can find more security
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  with yourself? And when you're more secure with
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  yourself and you love yourself more, like you
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  said, then you open yourself up to helping somebody
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  else, loving somebody else as well. How do you
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  do that? Yeah, that's a great question. And I
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  think the conversation sounds and looks different
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  depending on age. Unfortunately, I had to figure
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  that out at age 37, and that's not fun. And so
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  I wish these conversations happened more with
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  our kids, and I wish they happened more at school.
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  But when it comes to acquiring self -love, it's
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  not really what we think. Yes, it could be bubble
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  baths and massages and taking yourself on vacations
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  and buying yourself things, but that's not quite
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  what it is. And that's not going to bring you
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  longevity in that area. And so what self -love
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  looks like is understanding what you're okay
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  with and not okay with. That looks like boundaries.
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  That looks like I'm not going to choose self
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  -abandonment. Over self -respect. I always choose
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  self -respect. But that definition can be different
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  for everyone. You know, what do they feel is
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  respectful or not respectful? And so that was
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  one of my biggest things is having the courage
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  to communicate what I'm okay with and not okay
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  with. Just growing up my whole life, I always
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  chose to be the good girl. Just be quiet. Be
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  a doormat. That's easier. The people pleaser.
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  In the long run, that's very damaging. And so
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  oftentimes self -love looks like becoming curious
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  about who you are, why you do what you do, and
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  pouring into yourself and learning more about
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  yourself, and then creating a life full of people
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  and environments and opportunities that support
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  that love. And having the courage to communicate
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  or walk away when it doesn't. I think one of
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  the things you mentioned there, which is I think
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  really key, which is the people -poisoning component
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  of it that can stem from that lack of self -love.
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  Because with the self -love and the confidence
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  to say like, oh, no, that actually doesn't work
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  for me. Yeah. Right. But when we just want to
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  people -please, we swallow that down. Right.
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  We don't have enough gumption to say like, that
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  doesn't work. I don't want to do that. That that's
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  not okay. It's interesting when I was visiting
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  with a marriage and family therapist recently,
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  we talked a little bit about the people pleasing
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  versus, you know, teenagers kind of like pushing
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  back. Right. And that actually he was saying
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  he was more encouraged by a teenager really pushing
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  back. Yeah. Because they're not going to be as
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  much of that people pleasing. And it might seem
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  like the people pleaser when they're a teenager
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  is nice because they're easier to raise. At the
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  end of the day, those are types of personalities
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  that if that doesn't get fixed. will run into
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  those same problems. The lack of self -love,
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  just being a doormat, people walking all of them,
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  taking advantage of them, and then more insecurity
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  than stems from that, right? And it's hard though,
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  right? When you're raising kids. Oh, it's a totally
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  different ball game. And I honestly wish I could
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  go back and redo it with my first two kids. My
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  third child, I have done everything differently
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  and it shows. Because I do want a young man that
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  is, strong enough and has the courage enough
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  to say, I'm not okay with this because that's
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  what we need in the world to have a positive
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  impact. And those are the people that are going
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  to change the world. They're going to be the
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  leaders. And when it comes to people pleasing,
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  people only do that because it serves a purpose.
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  People wouldn't do it if they weren't getting
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  something out of it. And what most people are
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  gaining out of it is they want to be liked. Very
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  much so. And I can see that with teens. But also,
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  if we're allowing kids to communicate why they
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  feel a certain way, that creates a completely
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  different conversation. But when I work with
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  a lot of adults that are people pleasers in relationships
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  and they're miserable or just different situations,
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  they say, well, it's just easier this way. They
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  really are wanting to just be liked. And they're
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  going to continue to get the same result, which
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  is unhappiness. And in the moment, boundaries
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  or speaking up for what you believe or just even
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  communicating how you feel, it doesn't. feel
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  really great in the beginning when you're not
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  used to it. But every time you do, it speaks
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  to your soul and you become more empowered and
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  you become stronger. And it's just another form
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  of self -love being able to choose you over being
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  liked. Yeah. You know, one of the things that
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  I think you said that was interesting as well,
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  which is that when you were 18 and you were kind
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  of going through that, trying to figure life
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  out that you didn't have and hadn't had um adult
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  influences in your life that you could go to
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  right i think really what it highlights for me
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  is something that we've just as a society really
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  gotten away from which we used to do all the
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  time which is kids are raised by a community
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  right you know when when kids are are getting
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  before all this technology, before they could
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  just dive into a phone or a tablet or anything
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  like that, that really the idea was they're raised
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  by the tribe, right? That's the way we always
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  used to be. The history of man was that way.
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  Kids are raised by a tribe that people, other
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  adults step in and help out. And we've gotten
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  away from that a little bit. And I think the
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  more positive adult influences that can be out
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  there for kids so that they do. have somewhere
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  they could go in those hard times is really helpful.
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  I would guess that you've probably found the
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  ability to be that adult influence for some kids,
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  even if they're not your own. What's that been
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  like? What's that experience been like in helping
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  some of these kids actually have an adult influence
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  that's positive? It's been amazing. And it's
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  tricky at the same time because I'm a parent
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  and I get it. And I also have helped teens and
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  young adults, a lot of them. And when I'm talking
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  to teens, there is so much that they carry and
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  internalize and their parents have zero idea.
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  And so I think the bigger problem is just that
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  parents are so busy. Sure. And they're working
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  a lot. people have had to go back to work that
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  typically might be staying at home. And we've
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  got constant, you know, flood of information
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  being thrown at us all the time through TV and
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  social media and our phones. And there's just
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  so much distraction for our kids and teens, just
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  all of us. I'm really seeing a huge lack of connection
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  with kids, teens, and their parents. And They're
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  suffering. I mean, kids are getting younger and
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  younger when it comes to self -harm and suicidal
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  ideation. And I've worked with some of those
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  kids. And the biggest problem that I hear is
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  that they don't have one trusted adult in their
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  life that they feel like they can turn to. And
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  so I have really tried to be that trusted adult
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  that I didn't have. And so more than ever, it's
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  so important to have tricky conversations with
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  kids, even if you're not perfect at it. Just
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  how are you feeling? How are you really doing?
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  How are friends? And don't settle with fine or
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  okay. And keep asking those questions and try
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  to create that deeper connection because kids
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  want it. Even if they're not great at communicating
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  back, they just want to feel like they do have
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  one trusted adult in their life. And it's different
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  with parents because kids worry that they might
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  have a consequence attached to what they share.
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  For sure. And so keeping that poker face and
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  letting your kids know that you love them no
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  matter what is huge. Yeah. How do we create these
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  safe? spaces safe communities for kids to be
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  able to have those communications like how do
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  we do that I think it's taking time out of our
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  busy lives whether you're a football coach or
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  you're a counselor or you are a teacher or you're
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  in the neighborhood you go to the same church
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  your parents any any family taking the time to
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  ask build those connections by Asking questions
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  and commenting on even what they're wearing to
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  start simple conversations and really getting
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  to know kids in our community. And just asking
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  them what they like to do and showing a genuine
• 19:48
  interest in them. Otherwise, they just look at
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  you like, oh, yeah, you're just someone else.
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  Or you're just saying that because you're my
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  dad. And it's really that simple. Making eye
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  contact. Making eye contact and just having those
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  genuine conversations, act genuinely interested
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  in our youth. It goes so far. It has with me.
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  Like I have worked with teens that have come
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  back, have invited me to their weddings, all
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  sorts of things because I simply took time to
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  get to know them. Yeah. You know, I think we're
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  in Utah, obviously, very religious state. Regardless
• 20:33
  of what the religion is, I do think that when
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  there are youth groups as part of those, it naturally
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  comes up where you can have adult leaders where
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  you can have a really positive influence. Just
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  last week, my two boys are in a youth group,
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  and I had the opportunity to go on a campout
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  with them. It was a fun experience because, first
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  off, it was terrible. It was heat. It was southern
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  Utah. It was 103 degrees out. I had to sleep
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  in a tent, which I haven't for a long time. We
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  had no reception. And the boys weren't allowed
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  to bring any electronic devices at all. So the
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  leaders, we could. Obviously, we're adults, so
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  we can. It didn't matter. I had no reception.
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  And so because I didn't, I didn't have my phone
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  with me ever. And I started to experience a little
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  bit of what you're talking about, right? When
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  I didn't, when I would sit down. A lot of times
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  I was like, oh, I'm just going to go, you know,
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  check ESPN or something is what I would normally
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  do or go check my work email or whatever. But
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  I didn't have that. And so what did I end up
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  doing? I ended up asking questions to more of
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  the young men, to more of the boys. Like, hey,
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  tell me about this sports. Hey, you were in wrestling.
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  Hey, and you placed in state. Tell me about that.
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  Like, what was that experience like? Oh, that's
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  so cool. Like, what are you going to do now with
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  that? Oh, you're going to go to college and do
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  that? Oh, okay. You're going to go serve a mission
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  or whatever it is. And it's that connection opportunity
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  that I think with technology we're passing up
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  too often. Yeah. Yep. That when we are in those
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  moments, we got to take advantage of them. Put
• 21:53
  the phone away, put the phone down, actually
• 21:55
  ask the questions exactly like you just said.
• 21:57
  I think it was really insightful what you said,
• 21:58
  right? Just asking those questions, being genuinely
• 22:00
  interested, much like building relationships
• 22:02
  with adults. Like it's the same thing with kids.
• 22:05
  Just got to be interested. Because everything
• 22:07
  that you do leaves a mark. And so if that...
• 22:11
  that kid's in trouble or he's struggling and
• 22:14
  he's too scared to go to his parents, you might
• 22:16
  be one of the top three to five people that he
• 22:18
  knows he can reach out to because you took the
• 22:21
  time to make that connection. It goes a long
• 22:22
  way. Yeah, it does. And then the same thing,
• 22:25
  obviously, as we're talking about, I mean, obviously
• 22:27
  applies to adult relationships as well. Like
• 22:28
  creating those connections, asking those questions,
• 22:32
  I think is really helpful for us just to have
• 22:35
  more connection in our lives. And when we do,
• 22:37
  I do think that helps. We all do like to be liked,
• 22:41
  but we can be liked in ways that are genuine
• 22:43
  because we create genuine connections. It doesn't
• 22:45
  have to be because we're people pleasers. It
• 22:47
  can be because we do have boundaries and we use
• 22:50
  those boundaries to create better connection.
• 22:53
  Something I heard a therapist say recently, which
• 22:55
  is that's the idea of boundaries. Boundaries
• 22:57
  isn't to make less connection. It's actually
• 22:59
  to have better connections with the right guardrails
• 23:02
  in place. So those connections can be good and
• 23:05
  solid. So when we talk about this idea of like,
• 23:09
  self -love and kind of understanding and working
• 23:11
  on ourselves a little bit more. I want to kind
• 23:13
  of walk down that path a little bit. Where did
• 23:15
  that come from for you? So as you kind of experienced
• 23:17
  this, getting married too young, having to overcome
• 23:20
  some people -policing stuff and start working
• 23:22
  on yourself, when did you start really working
• 23:25
  on yourself? And how did you see that start to
• 23:26
  evolve? I have been studying myself for over
• 23:32
  10 years now because I was pretty sick of suffering.
• 23:38
  I was sick of not understanding other people's
• 23:43
  behavior, too, and how it was impacting me. And
• 23:46
  so really just in an effort to understand my
• 23:50
  life, because I think once we understand our
• 23:54
  life experiences and ourselves, then we don't
• 23:57
  feel so out of control or like instantly think
• 24:00
  something must be wrong with me. And so for me,
• 24:03
  it really began. a year or two before I got divorced
• 24:08
  because I realized, okay, I don't even dare communicate
• 24:12
  in my marriage. And that's not a him problem.
• 24:15
  That's a me problem. And so it kind of started
• 24:19
  there at first, but then, I mean, when you get
• 24:24
  married really young and you've never not had
• 24:28
  kids, you really, I really. didn't take the time
• 24:33
  to know who I was, what I wanted. My life was
• 24:36
  basically defined by, at the time, where my standing
• 24:41
  was in the church that I belonged to, how big
• 24:44
  my house was, what car I drove, and how good
• 24:47
  of meals I cooked. And so when I got thrown back
• 24:51
  out into the dating world and people would ask
• 24:53
  me, what do you like to do? I couldn't even say
• 24:57
  anything because I had abandoned myself. So that
• 25:02
  was part, that was a stepping stone in my journey.
• 25:05
  And little by little, I discovered who I was
• 25:09
  and what I wanted and what personally brought
• 25:12
  me joy. And I think with anything, like I mentioned
• 25:18
  before, I lost my first grandchild. And oftentimes
• 25:23
  with those types of challenges, it really makes
• 25:25
  you take a look at yourself. And you kind of
• 25:30
  have to when you experience a great degree of
• 25:34
  trauma like that, because you're back in that
• 25:37
  survival mode of like, oh my gosh, like, how
• 25:40
  do I be okay again? And so I would say about
• 25:45
  four years ago, it really threw me into this
• 25:49
  deep dive of what do I genuinely believe? What
• 25:55
  do my spiritual practices look like? Meditation
• 25:58
  and sound baths. And what do I really like to
• 26:03
  do? And what can I bring to the world? And what
• 26:05
  is my purpose? And I found all of that through
• 26:10
  that hard experience. Because I realized that
• 26:14
  the things that I have been through in my life
• 26:16
  were just stepping stones to me discovering who
• 26:20
  I am so that I can help other people. Take me
• 26:24
  back to this experience, if you don't mind, of
• 26:27
  losing a grandchild. Yeah. What kind of walk
• 26:30
  us through, you know, how old, who was your child
• 26:36
  that had that grandchild and then kind of what
• 26:38
  happened? Yeah. So it was my oldest daughter.
• 26:40
  It was her first child. And she was in her early
• 26:44
  20s. And I mean, we just absolutely adored him.
• 26:48
  He, Zuri. Zuri, he was the center of our world.
• 26:54
  It was so fun to babysit. Oh my goodness. But
• 26:59
  about seven months in, he was seven months old.
• 27:03
  She simply took him to a doctor's visit and they
• 27:08
  told her that he had a bug. And about six days
• 27:14
  later, he passed away in primary children's due
• 27:16
  to bacterial meningitis, and they still don't
• 27:19
  know how he got it. It was a rare strain. And
• 27:22
  there are lots of details that go into that story.
• 27:25
  A lot of things that are unknown, a lot of things
• 27:29
  that happened in that entire, that little nutshell
• 27:34
  of the experience that I just shared. I think
• 27:41
  what was the hardest thing about all of that
• 27:44
  is it was a different type of grief and trauma
• 27:46
  than I'd personally ever experienced. And I've
• 27:49
  had a lot of that. And I would always say, you
• 27:53
  know what, I've experienced just about a bit
• 27:55
  of everything to some degree, but I hope I never
• 27:58
  have to experience losing a child because that
• 28:00
  would be the worst. And to watch. To be so close
• 28:04
  to him and have him suddenly and tragically pass
• 28:07
  away after them saying, oh, it's just a bug,
• 28:09
  go home, come back if he has a fever. To go through
• 28:14
  that, but then watch my daughter go through it,
• 28:17
  it was so extremely painful because I feel like
• 28:22
  I always knew what to do or how to find answers
• 28:27
  if I didn't know what to do or how to find support.
• 28:33
  That's really why I became trauma informed because
• 28:35
  I did not understand grief and how we all grieve
• 28:40
  differently. And I was taking it very personally
• 28:43
  in the beginning. And I didn't even understand
• 28:45
  my own behavior. Like one day I'm super happy.
• 28:49
  The next day I like can't stop crying. And so
• 28:52
  that whole experience. was a complete nightmare.
• 28:58
  And I just can't imagine how she must have felt
• 29:01
  because I know how greatly I was grieving and
• 29:06
  how traumatic it was for me. So I cannot even
• 29:10
  begin to imagine how she must feel and what she's
• 29:13
  gone through. And still today, I look back and
• 29:17
  I'm like, what could I have done better? And
• 29:20
  it's just really hard because I still today,
• 29:24
  I'm like, okay, am I doing the right thing? And
• 29:26
  I think that's just, that's a huge part of my
• 29:31
  work and how I help people being trauma informed
• 29:34
  because we can't judge people based off of how
• 29:37
  they decide to process grief. And that can look
• 29:43
  a lot of different ways, whether it's divorce
• 29:45
  or death. And so trauma. Shows up differently
• 29:51
  in everyone and everyone can exhibit different
• 29:56
  behavior. Some people will pull away and some
• 29:58
  people want to be around people all of the time.
• 30:00
  And trauma is a very complicated thing. And I
• 30:06
  was really surprised by how judgmental some people
• 30:11
  have been about how others. process grief and
• 30:16
  trauma. And if I could say anything speaking
• 30:19
  to that is that sometimes you don't need to say
• 30:23
  anything when somebody is grieving or hurting.
• 30:26
  Your presence is your superpower in that moment.
• 30:31
  And that we need to really release judgment when
• 30:34
  it comes to people that have experienced what
• 30:38
  I call trauma with a big T, like big life things
• 30:41
  that have happened. Um, really empathy can look
• 30:47
  like you just being there and you not needing
• 30:49
  to say the right thing, or you might not even
• 30:53
  know what to do, but sometimes it's okay to ask
• 30:57
  the other person, how can I show up for you?
• 30:59
  I love you. And I want to be here for you. What
• 31:01
  does that look like for you in the moment? Because
• 31:03
  I felt so helpless and, um, And I think it's
• 31:09
  important that when someone is processing something
• 31:11
  to take the ego out of it and not take their
• 31:15
  actions personally. It's not about you. And put
• 31:20
  your ego on the shelf and put your – always give
• 31:25
  someone the most generous assumption and try
• 31:27
  to meet them at their feelings. You know, when
• 31:31
  you're kind of going through this experience,
• 31:33
  I think – You're faced with an interesting dichotomy
• 31:39
  here, which is, one, you've got to grieve the
• 31:42
  loss of your grandbaby. And then on the other
• 31:45
  hand, you're trying to support your daughter.
• 31:48
  What was that like for you to try to navigate
• 31:50
  those two seemingly opposite things at times?
• 31:54
  A nightmare. Because she grieves differently
• 31:59
  than I do. And so it was really confusing for
• 32:02
  me. The way I grieve is I wanted people to show
• 32:10
  up for me, but I didn't always want to talk about
• 32:12
  it. But the way that I try to be there for others
• 32:16
  is like, I want to be there for them all the
• 32:18
  time. Let's talk about this. What can I do? And
• 32:20
  like in their space. And for someone that, and
• 32:26
  I can't say how she feels that she grieves, but.
• 32:31
  If you are the type of person that typically
• 32:33
  pulls away or shuts down and you don't want to
• 32:35
  be around other people, for someone like me,
• 32:38
  it's like, get out of my face, mom or whoever,
• 32:44
  and just leave me alone and let me process this
• 32:47
  on my own. But when you're a parent or you're
• 32:50
  another family member or friend and you're seeing
• 32:52
  someone else grieve, you want to do something
• 32:55
  to help, but you don't always have the answers.
• 32:59
  I felt like it was just a mess because I really
• 33:04
  was in survival mode myself. And when you are
• 33:07
  in survival mode, you're, I mean, if you look
• 33:12
  at the psychology of things, you're in fight
• 33:14
  or flight. You're in your animalistic part of
• 33:19
  your brain. You're not even in the front part
• 33:21
  of your brain, which is the thinking part of
• 33:23
  your brain. You can't problem solve. You can't
• 33:25
  make decisions. And so I was. planning a funeral
• 33:29
  and doing all these things by myself while also
• 33:32
  not being okay, while also knowing she's suffering
• 33:35
  and not knowing what to do. And it just felt
• 33:37
  like trying to get through each day, like just
• 33:42
  take it day by day, minute by minute sometimes,
• 33:44
  and just draw on my own support system I had
• 33:48
  at the time and definitely therapy, a lot of
• 33:51
  therapy. Did you have, at that time, did you
• 33:55
  have other? adults that you could rely on to
• 33:58
  provide you support? Yeah, I had a lot of great
• 34:00
  girlfriends and family members that it's complicated
• 34:05
  because people that love you, they want to show
• 34:09
  up for you, but they also don't know what to
• 34:10
  say and they don't know what to do. And it's
• 34:12
  just awkward. And sometimes people are extremely
• 34:15
  offensive when they're just trying to say the
• 34:17
  right thing or they're trying to validate your
• 34:20
  feelings. And so especially online, they Once
• 34:26
  people kind of saw this, what our family was
• 34:28
  going through and this little viral video, there
• 34:31
  were a lot of comments made to my daughter that
• 34:33
  were pretty offensive. But I know that it was
• 34:36
  people trying to be like, oh, hey, this happened
• 34:38
  to me too. And I'm trying to validate her experience
• 34:41
  in that way. Besides just kind of being there
• 34:45
  for somebody, what did you find was the most
• 34:47
  helpful thing that people said? And then I'm
• 34:51
  also interested, what was the most? hurtful thing
• 34:53
  that maybe people said, even if they were well
• 34:55
  -intended? I think the most helpful thing that
• 34:58
  people did was just ask how they can help. Just
• 35:01
  ask. Like, if you don't know, just ask and just
• 35:04
  be there. Like, in that moment, I didn't even
• 35:07
  know what I needed. And I think the most offensive
• 35:12
  things that you can say to people that are grieving,
• 35:15
  regardless of the type of grief, is, especially
• 35:18
  with death, you'll see them again one day. Or
• 35:26
  everything happens for a reason. Another one
• 35:29
  is invalidating someone's experiences by sharing
• 35:34
  your own. And what that looked like in her case
• 35:37
  was, oh, yeah, I had a miscarriage and it was
• 35:40
  so sad. It's like she was actually raising this
• 35:45
  child. He had a personality. And so I think.
• 35:53
  When sympathy is very different than empathy,
• 35:56
  empathy is like you're sitting with them in their
• 35:59
  feelings, even if you don't understand them.
• 36:01
  And sympathy is kind of like trying to find the
• 36:05
  silver lining when that's not what the person
• 36:08
  needs in that moment or it's toxic positivity.
• 36:11
  So, oh, you'll be OK. You'll be fine. Just here.
• 36:16
  Let's go get a drink. And just really trying
• 36:19
  to I can see how, you know. Not everybody knows
• 36:23
  how to deal with someone grieving. And so that's
• 36:25
  their way of like trying to help, but it's really
• 36:28
  invalidating. And like I said, sometimes we just
• 36:31
  need to sit with people and acknowledge, I don't
• 36:35
  know even what to say or do, but I'm here and
• 36:37
  I love you. And I can't imagine what you must
• 36:41
  be going through right now. Yeah. Your thought
• 36:44
  occurs to me. One of the things you said is that
• 36:46
  just, you know, letting them know like, hey,
• 36:49
  what can I do to help? And I think if I could
• 36:51
  add to that, and I'd love your take on it, maybe
• 36:54
  also adding like, you know, what can I do to
• 36:55
  help? And if it's nothing, that's okay. If it's
• 36:58
  just be here with you, that's okay. And if it's
• 37:00
  that you just need to be alone, that's okay too.
• 37:03
  Because I think sometimes... And what I've heard,
• 37:05
  the feedback that I've heard from other people
• 37:07
  is when everybody's asking what they can do,
• 37:09
  it's like, I don't know, that it puts a burden
• 37:10
  on me to try to figure out what you can do to
• 37:12
  help. And I don't know what you can do to help,
• 37:13
  right? Like, I just need to be alone or I just
• 37:16
  need, you know, maybe I just need you just to
• 37:18
  be here and not, you know, pepper me with questions.
• 37:21
  And I do think that like being present with somebody,
• 37:27
  you've said a number of times, I think it's just,
• 37:29
  it really hits home for me. I think it's exactly
• 37:31
  right. I think sometimes just being there. Yeah.
• 37:34
  We don't have the right things to say. Nobody
• 37:36
  knows exactly the perfect thing to say. We don't
• 37:38
  know. We can all try. We try imperfectly. Sometimes
• 37:42
  it's just being there. Absolutely. And that can
• 37:45
  carry a lot. A lot of impact is having that person
• 37:51
  know that you're there. That you're not judging.
• 37:53
  You're not judging them for anything. That they're
• 37:55
  experiencing the way that they experience grief.
• 37:57
  Like you talked about. Let them experience it
• 37:59
  the way they need to. Just be there for them.
• 38:01
  When we talk as well about... Kind of the way
• 38:04
  that we work on things for ourselves, right?
• 38:07
  And the way that we can appeal back the layers
• 38:11
  of ourselves to understand ourselves better,
• 38:13
  which can then ultimately help us to process
• 38:16
  things like grief better, process the trauma
• 38:18
  we have better. You know, this is where we start
• 38:22
  talking about especially like marriages. and
• 38:25
  how people communicate and working on themselves.
• 38:28
  It's why we talked about doing The Incredibles,
• 38:30
  because it's such a good example for us to look
• 38:33
  through this lens. So I wrote down a couple of
• 38:36
  quotes from the movie that I kind of want to
• 38:38
  ask you about as well, some others from some
• 38:39
  people that we both done a lot of reading of,
• 38:43
  like John Gottman. But let me first take you
• 38:45
  to a quote from Helen Parr, who's Mrs. Incredible.
• 38:49
  And she's talking with Bob, right? And one of
• 38:52
  the things she says to him, I think was really
• 38:53
  interesting. She says, I love you, but if we're
• 38:55
  going to make this work, you've got to be more
• 38:57
  than Mr. Incredible. You know that, don't you?
• 39:00
  Because he had his whole identity wrapped up
• 39:02
  into being Mr. Incredible. And then when he couldn't,
• 39:06
  then suddenly he like falls apart, right? Loses
• 39:08
  his job. He's just depressed all the time. He
• 39:12
  has no idea who he is. You know, it's kind of
• 39:15
  sounding a little bit like. What you experienced,
• 39:17
  right? You're doing things for somebody else
• 39:19
  all the time. You don't really know who you are.
• 39:21
  And so he's kind of lost in these moments. And
• 39:24
  so how many times do you, what do you think it's
• 39:26
  like for people when they kind of find themselves
• 39:28
  in that experience of like, they thought that
• 39:31
  this was the thing like you had and then kind
• 39:33
  of realized like, oh, like being Mr. Incredible.
• 39:37
  Or being who everybody else wants me to be all
• 39:38
  the time is actually not it. That's not what's
• 39:41
  going to bring me connection in this life. Yeah.
• 39:43
  So my brain is going all different directions
• 39:47
  because when you're speaking to that, I'm just
• 39:50
  thinking about how actually men and women are
• 39:53
  so different. And that I think it's more about
• 39:58
  men and women understanding their differences.
• 40:03
  And being okay with that and trying to meet each
• 40:05
  other's needs over saying, hey, you need to change.
• 40:10
  Because control is not love. Authenticity is
• 40:13
  love. And so we need to be okay with the way
• 40:18
  our person is, you know, when we met them. And
• 40:22
  if we're not, because when you meet someone,
• 40:24
  you get the whole package. You get all their
• 40:27
  stuff. You get parts of their personality and
• 40:30
  habits that you might not like. You might choose
• 40:34
  to be with someone that works long hours, whatever
• 40:37
  it is. But if you choose that, changing your
• 40:40
  mind how many years later, that's not quite love.
• 40:46
  Because authenticity is letting somebody be who
• 40:49
  they are. So in the case of The Incredibles,
• 40:51
  he is like a lot of men I work with. And it's
• 40:55
  pretty true to science. What I've learned is
• 40:59
  for men, And what's most important to them is
• 41:05
  who they are and how they got there. Third, how
• 41:11
  much money they make. That's a big part of their
• 41:13
  identity. And they might not talk about it. They
• 41:15
  might not show it. But men pride themselves on
• 41:19
  that. A lot of the men that I work with. Women
• 41:22
  are so much more complicated. Men need way less.
• 41:26
  Women need way more. It's our biology. And that's
• 41:29
  okay. And so with men, they want to be appreciated
• 41:36
  and respected. They want physical intimacy. Women
• 41:40
  are very emotional, and they need their emotional
• 41:44
  needs met. And so when you have two people in
• 41:49
  a marriage, that are biologically completely
• 41:53
  different, and they come with all their own life
• 41:56
  experiences and their lens that they view the
• 42:00
  world through, it's a wonder that any marriages
• 42:03
  even last if you think about it that way. And
• 42:06
  completely different communication styles sometimes
• 42:09
  in the way they handle conflict resolution. And
• 42:12
  so in the case of The Incredibles, you have this
• 42:15
  guy that's like doing everything that he thought
• 42:18
  he was supposed to do. And he's out there saving
• 42:21
  people. Some like the way that kind of comes
• 42:24
  to a head where suddenly all the supers can't
• 42:26
  be out there anymore is because some guy jumps
• 42:29
  off a building to his death and he saves the
• 42:31
  guy. Yeah. He saves his life and then gets sued.
• 42:34
  Right. So, yeah, knock on attorneys. But yeah,
• 42:37
  so he goes from this zone of doing what he thinks
• 42:40
  is right, saving people's lives, literally saving
• 42:42
  people's lives to all of that is stripped away.
• 42:45
  And he can't do any of that anymore. Completely
• 42:46
  loses that part of himself. Yeah. His identity.
• 42:49
  And so I have worked with hundreds of men and
• 42:54
  it's seriously the same story about why their
• 42:57
  relationships or marriages are not working. And
• 43:01
  a lot of times it's not working because they
• 43:06
  don't feel appreciated and respected, but then
• 43:09
  their wife or partner isn't getting her. Needs
• 43:13
  met either. And so he's over here going, but
• 43:16
  I protect and I provide for my family. It's exactly
• 43:18
  what she wanted. And I've given them this beautiful
• 43:21
  life. What more could she ask for? And she's
• 43:24
  over here going, well, we never spend time together
• 43:26
  and there's no emotional intimacy. And so both
• 43:30
  people are hurting and not having their needs
• 43:32
  met. And they're just both different. And they're
• 43:34
  both thinking they're doing the right thing.
• 43:37
  And so in the case of. The Incredibles, it's
• 43:43
  just a lot like these men that I work with. And
• 43:46
  sometimes even men, I don't know if you have
• 43:49
  ever read the book Man's Search for Purpose,
• 43:52
  but a lot of times when men get older, if they
• 43:56
  happen to be divorced, their kids start to grow
• 43:58
  up and leave the house. They really struggle
• 44:01
  because if they are divorced and they're not
• 44:06
  in a relationship, they don't. feel like they
• 44:08
  have someone to protect and provide for and their
• 44:12
  kids have maybe moved on and they're older and
• 44:15
  they have their own lives and so a lot of men
• 44:17
  at that time in life kind of struggle because
• 44:19
  they're like what's my purpose like i'm inherently
• 44:22
  like i love to protect and provide for my family
• 44:25
  and that's a huge part of my identity what do
• 44:27
  i do now yeah and so i work with men and that
• 44:31
  life transition as well and it all just kind
• 44:33
  of ties together and makes sense because Just
• 44:37
  like Mr. Incredible, he had an identity. And
• 44:40
  if it's stripped away, he's like, well, who am
• 44:42
  I? And I think the biggest thing about that movie
• 44:47
  that I love is something that I think everybody
• 44:52
  deals with, which is sometimes along the way,
• 44:56
  we forget that we're a team. That it's not. He
• 45:03
  was kind of doing secret missions on the side,
• 45:07
  and she's got her thing. And then before you
• 45:11
  know it, the marriage is falling apart. And the
• 45:14
  problem is never each other. It should be you
• 45:21
  two against the problem, not you two against
• 45:23
  each other. And that's why I think this is a
• 45:26
  great example for that. Yeah, I think you're
• 45:28
  so split on here, and there's so many things
• 45:31
  I want to dive into with that. One is about this
• 45:33
  idea of their Mr. and Mrs. Incredibles relationship
• 45:38
  with each other and how it deteriorates and how
• 45:40
  that is a type for the things that we do wrong.
• 45:42
  And part of it is this quote from John Gottman
• 45:45
  that I love where he said, Trust is built in
• 45:49
  very small moments, which I call sliding door
• 45:52
  moments. In any interaction, there's a possibility
• 45:55
  of connecting with your partner or turning away
• 45:57
  from your partner. One such moment is not important,
• 46:01
  but if you're always choosing to turn away, then
• 46:04
  trust erodes in a relationship very gradually,
• 46:07
  very slowly, right? Where a lot of times we'll
• 46:09
  hear this idea of like, okay, well, I'm sitting
• 46:12
  here providing, I'm doing all these things, and
• 46:14
  then you turn around a few years later, and then
• 46:17
  you're not communicating at all, and neither
• 46:19
  partner is neither being that, and it's not communicating,
• 46:21
  and it's built on all these times of just...
• 46:24
  turning away when those opportunities come up
• 46:26
  rather than turning to each other, right? The
• 46:28
  two of you against the problem. And so Mr. and
• 46:31
  Mrs. Credible, right? That's what they do. He's
• 46:32
  turning away from her doing a secret mission.
• 46:35
  She's turning away from him and, you know, trying
• 46:37
  to focus on them not using their superpowers
• 46:39
  and taking care of the kids. And they're just
• 46:41
  not communicating at all, right? They're not
• 46:43
  meeting in the middle. They're not encountering
• 46:45
  these problems. They're doing them totally separately.
• 46:49
  So I kind of want to get your take on that of
• 46:50
  like, building the trust in these relationships
• 46:53
  so that you actually turn to each other to encounter
• 46:56
  the problems. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to
• 46:58
  do that. And I think it's very situational, but
• 47:01
  I think it starts with creating safety around
• 47:03
  conversations that have to do with that. So if
• 47:07
  every time your partner comes to you, you get
• 47:12
  defensive when they want to bring up something,
• 47:14
  they're probably going to stop doing it. Or if
• 47:17
  on the flip side, when You approach them with
• 47:20
  some troubles that you're having about something.
• 47:24
  If you don't know how to communicate that as
• 47:27
  a loving truth teller, then your partner is not
• 47:31
  going to want to engage. And so I think trust
• 47:34
  first starts with being able to communicate.
• 47:39
  a loving, healthy way where both people feel
• 47:41
  seen and understood. You don't have to agree
• 47:43
  and you don't even have to completely understand
• 47:46
  the other person, but validate their feelings,
• 47:49
  even if you, or validate their experience of
• 47:53
  the situation, because you can see things differently,
• 47:56
  but validate their experience. And then. try
• 48:00
  to understand them and just get the conversation
• 48:03
  going because nothing can ever be resolved in
• 48:07
  a relationship if you can't first speak about
• 48:10
  it. Yeah. So I love that you went there because
• 48:14
  what I had written down next in my notes is for
• 48:17
  us to have you put on your coaching hat with
• 48:18
  Bob, Mr. Incredible, because so he's, he can't
• 48:22
  be a super anymore. Right. And so he's at this
• 48:25
  job that he hates and then he gets fired and
• 48:28
  then he doesn't tell Mrs. Incredible. It doesn't
• 48:32
  tell her. So let's say in this moment, Bob came
• 48:35
  to you. He's like, Cassie, I need some help.
• 48:38
  I need some coaching. What would you coach him
• 48:41
  to in those moments to help trying to work on
• 48:45
  himself and then also make sure he's building
• 48:48
  on positive communication and ability to communicate
• 48:50
  with his wife? Yeah. So I would do a lot of things
• 48:54
  with Bob. Good, good. So I would do a lot of
• 48:57
  things simultaneously. So I would have Bob really
• 49:02
  make a list of his qualities because I think
• 49:08
  sometimes when, if you've ever... encountered
• 49:13
  job loss or things like that, it can chip away
• 49:16
  at your self -worth. And I see it a lot too with
• 49:20
  men that have betrayal trauma. And I like to
• 49:24
  remind men of who they are because when you have
• 49:29
  crappy things happen, it's really easy to self
• 49:33
  -blame and it's really easy to tear yourself
• 49:38
  apart because you can control that. So people
• 49:40
  will just tell themselves all sorts of stories.
• 49:43
  I like to empower men by reminding them of who
• 49:45
  they are, not just their inherent qualities that
• 49:48
  they were born with, but the value that they've
• 49:51
  added to themselves along the way. I also like
• 49:54
  to challenge their core beliefs and challenge
• 49:59
  the narratives that they're telling themselves
• 50:01
  about a situation. And sometimes maybe in Bob's
• 50:05
  case, it would be oh, she's going to be so mad
• 50:09
  at me. She's going to want to leave me. I'm such
• 50:12
  a loser. I don't even have a job. I can't provide
• 50:14
  for my family. I suck, whatever it is. And I
• 50:19
  would challenge him on that and say, do you really,
• 50:25
  like, are you really going to get a divorce?
• 50:29
  Do you know that 100 % without a shadow of a
• 50:32
  doubt? Do you know that's what's going to happen?
• 50:35
  The answer is usually no. Or if someone says,
• 50:38
  oh, I think it might, I say, okay, what evidence
• 50:41
  do you have to support that? That thought is
• 50:45
  100 % true, that story that you're telling yourself.
• 50:48
  Usually it's not any evidence. And so a lot of
• 50:53
  times we get ourselves so worked up and so upset
• 50:57
  based off of a bunch of thoughts that aren't
• 51:00
  even true. And so that's one thing that... would
• 51:04
  do with Bob and that I do with all my clients
• 51:06
  is challenge the thoughts that you're thinking
• 51:08
  that are creating certain emotions that are leading
• 51:11
  you to spiral and just flounder and not know
• 51:15
  what to do. Because once we can control our inner
• 51:17
  world and our thoughts, we can control our outer
• 51:20
  world, including our relationships. And so I
• 51:24
  would also teach Bob to get out of that black
• 51:31
  and white thinking and that doomsday thinking
• 51:34
  that the worst thing will always happen. That's
• 51:40
  another way of challenging beliefs that I believe
• 51:43
  we always tend to assume the worst. And if we
• 51:46
  can really play through from beginning to end
• 51:49
  what might happen at the end of the day, we'll
• 51:52
  live. We'll still be alive. It's okay. We can
• 51:54
  do it. And so those are a few things I would
• 51:57
  start with. But yeah, Bob. Bob and Helen, there
• 52:01
  are lots of different directions that we could
• 52:03
  go with them. Yeah. And then they continue to
• 52:07
  evolve in this, which is why I think it's such
• 52:10
  an informative movie to watch for relationship
• 52:13
  dynamics and the way that things play out. A
• 52:15
  little bit later, after Bob goes on these secret
• 52:18
  missions, and then it kind of gets exposed, and
• 52:20
  then suddenly his family's trying to help, and
• 52:23
  it's looking bleak, right? Yeah. before they
• 52:27
  ended up being able to prevail. And when it's
• 52:29
  kind of looking bleak and he's talking with his
• 52:31
  wife, he just, he looks at her and he just says,
• 52:34
  I'm not, I'm not strong enough. And I think it's
• 52:38
  right in line with what you're talking about,
• 52:40
  where, you know, when his identity was, I'm protecting,
• 52:44
  I'm serving, I'm providing, that's now all taken
• 52:47
  away. I start to get that back, but because they
• 52:51
  haven't fully resolved their relationship. He
• 52:55
  was still hiding things. He was still not fully
• 52:58
  communicating with her and having that trust.
• 53:00
  Now he's feeling the culmination of like, it's
• 53:02
  too much. I can't do it. I'm not strong enough.
• 53:04
  I'm not strong enough. Yeah. And so what would
• 53:07
  be your advice then? So now he's gone through
• 53:10
  all this stuff. He's realizing that he actually
• 53:12
  does have a purpose, but he's feeling like he's
• 53:14
  not strong enough to be able to handle this situation.
• 53:16
  Yeah. What's really cool about that part and
• 53:21
  something great that Bob did that I want to make
• 53:23
  sure that I told him he was just excellent at
• 53:26
  is finally being transparent. Because I forgot
• 53:30
  to mention that a minute ago, transparency will
• 53:32
  always invite emotional intimacy, even if it
• 53:36
  feels scary. Always go with transparency over
• 53:39
  being comfortable. But along with transparency
• 53:43
  is when he was vulnerable. Vulnerability is.
• 53:48
  doesn't feel great either because vulnerability
• 53:50
  exposes you to possibly getting a reaction that
• 53:55
  might hurt or with some men feeling shamed for
• 54:01
  being vulnerable because a lot of men grew up
• 54:03
  with, you don't cry, suck it up. And so I would
• 54:09
  definitely compliment him and make sure that
• 54:12
  he Was able to acknowledge that he did the right
• 54:17
  thing. But moving forward after being vulnerable,
• 54:22
  I think it's not all on Bob anymore. It's on
• 54:29
  Helen. Sure. To thank him for being vulnerable
• 54:33
  and providing. Now it's her turn to provide a
• 54:39
  safe container. Yeah. For him to open up and
• 54:44
  then work together as a team, because it's not
• 54:47
  always a man that should do that. You also need
• 54:51
  to provide that as a woman. It can look differently
• 54:54
  and it can feel differently, but men need to
• 54:58
  feel safe too. Men need to feel validated too.
• 55:01
  They need to feel love. They need to feel compassion.
• 55:05
  And they need to know that when they're not 100%,
• 55:09
  well, that they don't even have to be 100 % all
• 55:11
  the time. That's not even realistic. Some days
• 55:17
  he might be 80 and she's 20. And other days she
• 55:19
  might be the 80 and he's the 20. And so I think
• 55:23
  now she needs to put on that hat of like, okay,
• 55:28
  thank you for sharing this with me. What do you
• 55:32
  need from me? How can I support you? How can
• 55:34
  we get through this? I love you. We've got this
• 55:36
  no matter what. And I think that's why a lot
• 55:39
  of people hesitate to be vulnerable or share,
• 55:41
  be transparent is because they're so worried
• 55:44
  that the other person is going to leave them.
• 55:47
  And in this case, like Helen could have, I don't
• 55:51
  even remember what she says, but she could have
• 55:53
  said all sorts of things to where he would shut
• 55:56
  down and spiral even more. Yeah. And instead,
• 55:59
  what Helen and then ultimately the kids do too
• 56:02
  is they all show up for him. Yeah. Right. And
• 56:04
  they're like, we're in this together. You know,
• 56:06
  and then suddenly they're taking on this huge
• 56:08
  challenge, which obviously in the movie is, you
• 56:11
  know, this this robot and this villain. Right.
• 56:15
  They're taking this on. But that's really just
• 56:16
  an example of things in our lives that we have
• 56:18
  to encounter. And they do it together as a family,
• 56:20
  which is really which is really cool. Right.
• 56:22
  That they come this resolution realizing like,
• 56:25
  well, let me go back to because it reminded me
• 56:29
  earlier when you were talking. We're like, what
• 56:31
  his purpose is. I mean, he was a superhero. Yeah.
• 56:35
  He saved people. And then he went away from that.
• 56:37
  He didn't have that. And he starts doing it secretly,
• 56:40
  which isn't good for him to do it secretly. But
• 56:42
  I think what it starts to reveal is like, okay,
• 56:43
  no way. He actually does have a purpose where
• 56:45
  if he can be fulfilling the purpose of being
• 56:48
  Mr. Incredible, being super strong, saving people,
• 56:50
  that's actually. what his purpose was. It just
• 56:54
  needs to be done in the right way. So then when
• 56:57
  his family knows about it, he's able to be open
• 57:00
  about it. He and Helen can communicate about
• 57:03
  it. His kids know he's doing it. Now suddenly
• 57:05
  he starts stepping into his own. Then he can
• 57:08
  become a fuller version of himself where he can
• 57:11
  embrace the strength that he has and build a
• 57:14
  relationship with Helen and build a relationship
• 57:16
  with his kids. And one of the things that he
• 57:19
  kind of has in the end where he's verbalizing
• 57:23
  this realization he's coming to. He was like,
• 57:25
  I was so obsessed with being undervalued that
• 57:29
  I undervalued all of you, talking to his family.
• 57:31
  So caught up in the past that I almost missed
• 57:34
  it. You are my greatest adventure and I almost
• 57:36
  missed it. And it was this really nice way to
• 57:39
  kind of wrap it up of like, he's realizing and
• 57:41
  coming to the realization they're better together.
• 57:43
  But he had to figure himself out too. He couldn't
• 57:47
  just be this guy that wasn't fulfilling a purpose,
• 57:50
  was just sitting there in a cubicle working for
• 57:52
  an insurance company. That was horrible, right?
• 57:55
  That wasn't the real version of himself. He had
• 57:58
  to peel back the layers, find it, step into that,
• 58:02
  and then he could be a better father and a better
• 58:03
  husband. Absolutely. Which I think is kind of
• 58:05
  fun. Yeah. So let me ask you another quote, too,
• 58:08
  because going back to this idea of being vulnerable,
• 58:10
  we all know Brene Brown, right, talks about vulnerability
• 58:14
  as much as anybody. And she said, we can only
• 58:16
  love others as much as we love ourselves. Shame,
• 58:20
  blame, disrespect, betrayal, and the withholding
• 58:24
  of affection damage the roots from which love
• 58:28
  grows. What's your take on that quote? I love
• 58:31
  it. I love her. I strongly believe in that. And
• 58:36
  I believe that by creating emotional safety and
• 58:40
  vulnerability, it invites more of that. And so
• 58:45
  I think that it's impossible to be vulnerable
• 58:51
  if you don't feel safe. And so if you don't have
• 58:53
  respect and all of those other things that you
• 58:56
  mentioned, then it's not going to. provide a
• 59:00
  space or invite vulnerability at all and it's
• 59:03
  really hard to have any type of relationship
• 59:06
  without that they're pretty surface level if
• 59:08
  you don't and so all of those things that you
• 59:11
  listed um all those things that she lists are
• 59:16
  really just kind of like don't do that don't
• 59:19
  do this but i like to think of it in a positive
• 59:21
  way of like respect And safety and those types
• 59:25
  of qualities provide a space for people to be
• 59:29
  vulnerable with you. And they're more likely
• 59:33
  to be vulnerable if you can show up that way.
• 59:36
  I think what you said actually is an interesting
• 59:39
  take on it because I think we can take the positive
• 59:41
  spin on each one of these things about what to
• 59:42
  do. How do we not shame or blame? Well, we be
• 59:47
  curious. We assume positive intent. We find out
• 59:52
  more when someone's saying those things. We're
• 59:53
  not going to shame them or blame them. We're
• 59:54
  going to find out, oh, hey, help me understand
• 59:56
  that more. Oh, I'm really curious about what
• 59:58
  that was like for you. What were you experiencing
• 1:00:00
  in that moment? What was your perspective about
• 1:00:02
  that thing that happened, right? Validating.
• 1:00:04
  Like you said earlier, how do we, the opposite
• 1:00:07
  of disrespect, obviously be respectful of those
• 1:00:09
  things, be kind in the communications about those
• 1:00:12
  things. Even if we don't understand them, we
• 1:00:14
  can still be kind in the way that we have the
• 1:00:16
  communication to try to dig a little bit deeper.
• 1:00:18
  And so it's almost like we can take the opposite
• 1:00:19
  of these things to find out what to do, how to
• 1:00:22
  be positive and proactive and making sure that
• 1:00:25
  we're building those connections better. Another
• 1:00:28
  quote here, Mel Robbins, I want to get your take
• 1:00:30
  on this one too, because I think this is right
• 1:00:32
  in line with what you've kind of taught us today.
• 1:00:35
  She said, you are responsible for the energy
• 1:00:37
  you bring and how you show up. You are responsible
• 1:00:40
  for waking up every day and doing the work to
• 1:00:43
  make progress on what matters. Nobody owes you
• 1:00:45
  anything, but you owe yourself everything. Let
• 1:00:49
  me get your take on that. So when I hear that,
• 1:00:53
  I think about accountability. and self -awareness.
• 1:00:59
  And it all kind of ties into the let them theory
• 1:01:04
  that she created as well. But she's right. She's
• 1:01:08
  absolutely right. We cannot control another person.
• 1:01:11
  We cannot make them feel the way we want them
• 1:01:14
  to show up in the way that we want them to. But
• 1:01:16
  when we focus on ourselves and what our contributions
• 1:01:21
  are to our relationship or lack thereof, or what
• 1:01:25
  maybe our contributions were to a challenging
• 1:01:28
  conversation or argument, when we are more focused
• 1:01:30
  on ourselves, how we're showing up in relationships,
• 1:01:34
  and what we're doing to improve ourselves, then
• 1:01:37
  everything, it's kind of like the domino effect.
• 1:01:40
  Everything else just works a little better. And
• 1:01:44
  if the outcome doesn't end up being what you
• 1:01:46
  want it to be, then you're at least able to process
• 1:01:50
  it with a little bit more peace, knowing that
• 1:01:52
  you did everything that you could. And that is
• 1:01:55
  100 % something that I stand by in every situation
• 1:02:00
  in my own personal life. I genuinely tried to
• 1:02:04
  do everything that I could and learn all I could
• 1:02:07
  about myself and essentially did my homework
• 1:02:10
  before I've had to end certain relationships
• 1:02:13
  because we are responsible. We are adults. And
• 1:02:17
  we are responsible for communicating our needs.
• 1:02:20
  We are responsible for how we show up. And we
• 1:02:25
  can't control the outcomes. But life is a lot
• 1:02:29
  better when you can look yourself in the mirror
• 1:02:31
  and say, I did everything. I really showed up
• 1:02:34
  my best in this situation at work or in my marriage
• 1:02:37
  or with this friendship. And I sought help when
• 1:02:41
  I didn't know what to do. And I educated myself.
• 1:02:47
  When it comes to what I like to call life college,
• 1:02:51
  we're all in life college together. People are
• 1:02:53
  our teachers. It's a lot easier to navigate when
• 1:02:57
  you are more focused on what you can do better
• 1:03:00
  and pouring into yourself than worried about
• 1:03:02
  what everybody else should be doing. Take your
• 1:03:05
  finger, point it back at you instead of blaming
• 1:03:07
  other people for how you act or how you show
• 1:03:11
  up in the world and focus on what you can change.
• 1:03:16
  You know, as you talked about that, one of the
• 1:03:19
  things that I took away is once you do everything
• 1:03:24
  you can, give yourself that grace that you did.
• 1:03:27
  Because I think it's easy, even if it's not an
• 1:03:29
  overall relationship, even if it's just one particular
• 1:03:31
  argument or disagreement, if you bring everything
• 1:03:35
  you can to it. You bring kindness, you bring
• 1:03:38
  patience, you bring validation, understanding.
• 1:03:40
  It still might not turn out the way you want.
• 1:03:43
  The other person still might not receive it.
• 1:03:45
  You still might not reach a resolution. At that
• 1:03:48
  point in time, accepting that that part might
• 1:03:51
  be out of your control is hard, but I also think
• 1:03:54
  it's essential to do. Absolutely. Yeah. Recognize
• 1:03:57
  we tried. The other part of her theory of like,
• 1:04:00
  let them is let me, what am I going to do now?
• 1:04:04
  Yeah. And how am I going to, like in the example
• 1:04:09
  of a relationship, am I going to continue this
• 1:04:11
  relationship? Am I going to continue to try to
• 1:04:13
  have these conversations? And we get to decide
• 1:04:18
  what we do after that, after maybe someone has
• 1:04:21
  shown us who they are over and over and over.
• 1:04:23
  We have really tried. Yeah, so good. So what
• 1:04:28
  should I have asked you that I haven't asked
• 1:04:32
  you yet? Oh my goodness. There's so many things.
• 1:04:36
  Just kidding. You really missed the boat, right?
• 1:04:41
  Because there's about a hundred. I'm kidding.
• 1:04:44
  Oh, I messed up. There are just so many layers
• 1:04:46
  here, right? I don't think there's anything you
• 1:04:51
  should have asked me. I think that this conversation
• 1:04:54
  went where it was supposed to go. And I think
• 1:04:57
  that anybody listening to it will get exactly
• 1:05:00
  what they need from it based off of where they're
• 1:05:02
  at in their life. But at the end of the day,
• 1:05:05
  we all have relationships. Relationships with
• 1:05:08
  ourself, with others, and with life. And so I
• 1:05:12
  think that from our conversation, people will
• 1:05:16
  get from it what they need. yeah and part of
• 1:05:18
  what i love about just storytelling in general
• 1:05:22
  and i do think that disney does a particularly
• 1:05:23
  good job of it but really any story is that if
• 1:05:27
  we take the time to look a little deeper there's
• 1:05:30
  so much there that we can learn from to improve
• 1:05:32
  our lives I mean, to be honest, even when I was
• 1:05:36
  preparing for this, I didn't realize the depth
• 1:05:38
  of some of these things in relationship between
• 1:05:40
  Bob and Helen that you pulled out. Like I learned
• 1:05:43
  in this conversation about some of these things
• 1:05:45
  that helped me understand relationships better.
• 1:05:47
  And so I just love storytelling because of that.
• 1:05:51
  It helps pull things out. So before we get to
• 1:05:54
  our three actionable takeaways, before we get
• 1:05:57
  there, we're gonna do a couple of fun segments.
• 1:05:58
  Okay. You ready for these? Okay. Maybe. Yes.
• 1:06:01
  You're like, uh -oh, a little trepidatious about
• 1:06:03
  this. That's okay. The first one is going to
• 1:06:06
  be this or that. Okay. So you simply make the
• 1:06:08
  selection of which one you think it is. No explanation
• 1:06:11
  required unless you want to give it. Okay. You
• 1:06:13
  want to give it all day. Okay. You ready? Here
• 1:06:15
  goes. Okay. Mr. Incredible or Elastigirl? Mr.
• 1:06:20
  Incredible. Okay. Okay. He's pretty rad. Like
• 1:06:24
  when he's lifting the trains and stuff. Like,
• 1:06:26
  okay, he's awesome. Yeah, he's cool. Let's see.
• 1:06:29
  Disneyland or Disney World? Land. Disneyland.
• 1:06:34
  I mean, out here in the West, we tend to go to
• 1:06:36
  Disneyland quite a bit more. Yeah. Probably had
• 1:06:38
  that experience as well. When I've talked to
• 1:06:40
  people on the East Coast, it's usually the opposite
• 1:06:41
  because they're closer and they've been to Disney
• 1:06:43
  World more. Morning routine or late night? Late
• 1:06:48
  night. You're a late night gal. I shouldn't be.
• 1:06:51
  You shouldn't be. You're like, well, I know that
• 1:06:53
  I shouldn't. Are you an early riser, but it's
• 1:06:56
  just miserable? You know what? I've just never
• 1:06:58
  been a morning person, but it's like sometimes
• 1:07:02
  my brain just works so good at night. Yeah. But
• 1:07:06
  it's when I should be asleep and then I feel
• 1:07:08
  miserable in the morning and the whole cycle
• 1:07:10
  just continues. I found it interesting as I had
• 1:07:15
  to really train myself to be a morning person.
• 1:07:17
  I mean, it took years of doing it so that I could.
• 1:07:20
  What used to be at night is when I did some great
• 1:07:23
  thinking has now transitioned to the morning.
• 1:07:27
  And so in the morning when I do, when no one
• 1:07:29
  else is awake, I'm the only one. That's, you
• 1:07:34
  know, at least in my household or seems like
• 1:07:36
  in the world, right? It's awake. Boy, my brain
• 1:07:38
  functions so good now. But it took a long time
• 1:07:41
  to get there. It was not an easy feat. Okay.
• 1:07:45
  Movie night at home or ladies night out? Movie
• 1:07:49
  night at home all the way. Okay. I am a grandma.
• 1:07:53
  You're a grandma, right? I go over the clubs
• 1:07:55
  and all the things. You get to watch these cute
• 1:07:57
  movies. I just want to snuggle at home. Yeah.
• 1:07:59
  Snuggle with your grandbaby. Yeah. Those snuggles
• 1:08:02
  are the best. I like to be alone too. Okay. Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  There you go. I love to be alone. To you. Yes.
• 1:08:08
  Do you solo travel ever? Yes. And you love it?
• 1:08:11
  Love it. Oh. I just went to, I actually like
• 1:08:14
  Florida more than California, but I prefer Disneyland.
• 1:08:17
  But yeah, I just went to Florida for 10 days.
• 1:08:19
  Where in Florida? The Panhandle, 38, that area.
• 1:08:25
  Is that what you called it? Yeah, it's a highway,
• 1:08:28
  and it has all these beach towns like Alice Beach.
• 1:08:31
  It's all white. It looks like Greece. Okay, tell
• 1:08:34
  me, because I'm relatively ignorant for Florida
• 1:08:37
  things, but I know of one city. Tell me if it's
• 1:08:40
  in this area you're talking about, but Panama
• 1:08:42
  City Beach. Is that somewhere in that area? I
• 1:08:44
  mean, I am not an expert, but I did not go there,
• 1:08:49
  but sure, yeah. We went there once. My wife had
• 1:08:54
  decided we were going to go there. And, I mean,
• 1:08:56
  some of the most beautiful white sand beaches
• 1:08:58
  that you'll ever see. It is there, yeah. I remember
• 1:09:01
  stepping on it because she had been there before.
• 1:09:03
  She told me, like, it's so soft. And I was like,
• 1:09:05
  how soft can it really be? Because I'm used to
• 1:09:06
  California. And that sand's pretty grainy. Totally
• 1:09:09
  different. I love California. It's just different.
• 1:09:11
  And I walked on it for the first time. I'm like,
• 1:09:13
  it's like walking on powdered sugar. Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:15
  You literally feel like you're in the Maldives.
• 1:09:17
  The water is clear and the sand is like fine
• 1:09:21
  like sugar. I flew into Panama City. Hello. Oh,
• 1:09:24
  did you? How did you forget that? PCB? Yes. Panama
• 1:09:27
  City Beach. But I would say that 30A is prettier
• 1:09:30
  than that and like on your way to Destin. Okay.
• 1:09:33
  Yeah. So I'm going to give that a shot then.
• 1:09:34
  Okay. Hiking or running? Hiking. Hiking. Where's
• 1:09:39
  a good hike around? Around these parts. Around
• 1:09:42
  these parts. You could do Bell's Canyon, but
• 1:09:44
  further south is prettier, like Stewart Falls
• 1:09:46
  up by Sundance. Okay. Yeah. Love it. Spa day
• 1:09:50
  or adventure day? Spa day. We'll have a good
• 1:09:55
  spa day? Yeah. I can get down with a good spa
• 1:09:58
  day. I'll tell you what. I'm a little bit of
• 1:10:01
  a prima donna sometimes. No, I think I'm just
• 1:10:03
  getting old or something. I just don't. I took
• 1:10:07
  my kids to Costa Rica last summer. So fun. And
• 1:10:09
  they're teenage boys and adult boys. And so I'm
• 1:10:12
  like, okay, this is going to be an epic trip.
• 1:10:14
  So we went hard for 10 days. And I got back and
• 1:10:16
  I was like, I need a vacation from the vacation.
• 1:10:19
  So true. I started building in a buffer day.
• 1:10:23
  Because if I don't and I go too hard somewhere,
• 1:10:25
  it's just like, oh, my goodness. And work the
• 1:10:27
  next day is horrible. I got to have a buffer
• 1:10:28
  day. Yeah. Smart. Okay. Last one of this or that.
• 1:10:33
  Cooking at home or trying a new restaurant? I
• 1:10:37
  think I got burnout for cooking for my family
• 1:10:40
  for so long. And so I would prefer a restaurant,
• 1:10:45
  but I do meal prep every Sunday and have all
• 1:10:47
  my healthy meals to go. I don't like it though.
• 1:10:50
  Good for you. Oh, I just, meal prepping is so
• 1:10:53
  hard for me. Yeah. It's so hard. I know I need
• 1:10:56
  to do it and I've done it in the past, but it's
• 1:10:57
  just, it's tough. Okay, here's a rapid fire,
• 1:11:00
  okay? Oh, no. I'm going to mix it up a little
• 1:11:02
  bit, though. I'm going to throw one in here that
• 1:11:04
  was unexpected. Favorite restaurant, since we're
• 1:11:07
  on the topic of it. It's not even going to be
• 1:11:10
  one you guys know, because it's like a little
• 1:11:12
  podunk Mexican restaurant. Amazing. Let's hear
• 1:11:14
  it. Mirancherito. Where at? In Payson, Utah.
• 1:11:21
  In Payson. Got to go to the little Payson. Chips
• 1:11:24
  and salsa with a Diet Coke. Oh, so good. Mi Rancherito.
• 1:11:29
  Okay. Because there's a Mi Ranchito just down
• 1:11:31
  the road here. Not that. Which I do love. Los
• 1:11:33
  Hermanos, too. Los Hermanos. In Provo. That's
• 1:11:36
  great. Some good ones. But the farther you go,
• 1:11:38
  the Mexican food isn't as great. Okay. There
• 1:11:40
  are phenomenal restaurants in Salt Lake County,
• 1:11:43
  in this area. It's true. But the Mexican restaurants
• 1:11:46
  are down south. Okay. I love it. Favorite Disney
• 1:11:49
  movie? People are going to think this is lame,
• 1:11:53
  but I'm owning it. Emperor's New Groove because
• 1:11:55
  it's like the only one that makes me laugh out
• 1:11:57
  loud. Yeah, I love it. We talked about this earlier,
• 1:11:59
  but like it is such a cult classic now. It has
• 1:12:03
  just gained so much momentum. Like people love
• 1:12:05
  that movie. I don't even know if it's represented
• 1:12:08
  at Disneyland, but it's like it's funny. It's
• 1:12:11
  not, but kind of. I'm going to say why it's kind
• 1:12:13
  of because the guy that played Putty in Seinfeld.
• 1:12:17
  He was a voice in Emperor's New Groove. And then
• 1:12:19
  he's the guy that's like the intro guy for Soren.
• 1:12:22
  Okay. Who I love. His voice is so distinct. I
• 1:12:25
  think he's – is it Grok or Gronk? Yeah. Whatever
• 1:12:29
  the character is, he does that voice. And he's
• 1:12:32
  just got such a great voice that's so distinctive.
• 1:12:35
  I love that guy. Favorite Disney song? This is
• 1:12:43
  a hard one. I should have prepared for this one.
• 1:12:49
  I don't want to say the cheesy one that's on
• 1:12:53
  my mind right now. Let's hear it. I've heard
• 1:12:56
  so many cheesy ones. I'm not saying this is my
• 1:12:58
  current favorite song. I'm just saying I remember
• 1:13:01
  being a teenager and I vividly remember being
• 1:13:07
  in my bedroom. I don't know how old I was. We're
• 1:13:10
  going to say young teen so I don't sound so lame.
• 1:13:14
  In my room singing Colors of the Wind from Pocahontas.
• 1:13:18
  I just felt so cool singing that. It's a great
• 1:13:21
  song though. I'm not saying that's my favorite
• 1:13:23
  song. Okay. I got to do some research. Still
• 1:13:25
  a great song. Pocahontas, the movie itself was
• 1:13:29
  okay for me, but the songs were really good.
• 1:13:33
  When I listen to them now, my kids really like
• 1:13:35
  them because it's got some great songs. Colors
• 1:13:36
  of the Wind is one of those excellent songs.
• 1:13:38
  I don't fault you for it. It might not be your
• 1:13:40
  favorite, but I don't fault for it being pretty
• 1:13:41
  high. Favorite Disney princess? Oh, I used to
• 1:13:47
  always dress up as Cinderella and Tinkerbell
• 1:13:50
  because it was just easy. Yeah. Because of my
• 1:13:52
  blonde hair. So I'm going to say those two. Well,
• 1:13:55
  Cinderella is a classic. Many, many people have
• 1:13:57
  Cinderella as their favorite Disney princess.
• 1:14:01
  Favorite podcast you are listening to right now?
• 1:14:03
  Oh, I have so many. I would say Gabrielle Bernstein's
• 1:14:09
  Dear Gabby podcast. Dear Gabby. Okay. I have
• 1:14:12
  not listened to that one. I'm going to have to
• 1:14:13
  add it to the mix. I don't know if it's your
• 1:14:15
  thing, but. What is it? Think of her as like
• 1:14:19
  a prophet of love and spiritual guide. Okay.
• 1:14:24
  Yeah. I mean, I'll listen to anything once. I'll
• 1:14:26
  give it a shot. I'll listen to an episode. Favorite
• 1:14:29
  self -help book. Ooh, that's hard. She is one
• 1:14:35
  of my favorite authors too. It depends on what
• 1:14:38
  you need, but. You know, I'm going to go with
• 1:14:42
  it because her book was the very first one I
• 1:14:44
  read after divorce and it changed my life. Gabrielle
• 1:14:48
  Bernstein, The Universe Has Your Back. Okay.
• 1:14:51
  Okay, good. We'll add that one. We'll add that
• 1:14:54
  one to the mix, right? We're going to put that
• 1:14:56
  little link to that one, right? We'll shout her
• 1:14:58
  out, right? If it's a great book that helps you,
• 1:14:59
  like, we'll give it a shot. We'll put it out
• 1:15:01
  there for people. Well, that's the end of our
• 1:15:05
  rapid fire. That wasn't so bad. Oh, I thought
• 1:15:07
  it was way more Disney stuff. Yeah. I rolled
• 1:15:09
  it back. I rolled it back. That's really good.
• 1:15:11
  When you said you were intimidated, I was like,
• 1:15:12
  we'll roll it back. No big deal. I mean, I could
• 1:15:14
  go on for Disney stuff for hours and hours. Ask
• 1:15:18
  me 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, you've been pulling
• 1:15:20
  out. You're going to start hitting it, though,
• 1:15:22
  because if you get a little three -year -old
• 1:15:23
  grandbaby, that three -year -old is going to
• 1:15:27
  start watching some Disney stuff. Well, so what
• 1:15:30
  we always like to do, Cassie, is we like to end
• 1:15:33
  each episode with three actionable takeaways
• 1:15:35
  to provide to our audience of three specific
• 1:15:37
  things they can put into action in their lives
• 1:15:40
  today or this week. So what are your three recommended
• 1:15:44
  actionable takeaways? First, give people the
• 1:15:52
  most generous assumption. Love it. Second. Turn
• 1:15:59
  to love over fear. Always choose love over fear.
• 1:16:05
  Third, take a look at, become curious about,
• 1:16:10
  and first work on the relationship with yourself,
• 1:16:14
  your relationship with life, and then your relationship
• 1:16:17
  with others. So good. That's excellent. And the
• 1:16:21
  more that we do the relationship with ourselves,
• 1:16:24
  then the next ones fall in line. Right. Then
• 1:16:27
  it's easier to have the relationship with our
• 1:16:30
  spouses, with our kids, with those around us.
• 1:16:33
  Those things just kind of build on each other.
• 1:16:35
  Yeah, I love that. It's fantastic. Well, thank
• 1:16:37
  you so much for being with us today. Yes. And
• 1:16:40
  land for talking through. The Incredibles, which
• 1:16:45
  is such a fun show, looking at relationships,
• 1:16:47
  looking at how we have more self -love, working
• 1:16:49
  ourselves, also work through grief, not being
• 1:16:52
  judgmental, assuming positive intent, as you
• 1:16:55
  said. So again, thank you so much. Thanks for
• 1:16:57
  having me. As you lead this conversation, remember
• 1:17:01
  that yes, the past can hurt and you can either
• 1:17:04
  run from it or you can learn from it. So here's
• 1:17:08
  to learning and finding joy in the journey. See
• 1:17:11
  you real soon.