Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Navigating Our Kids' Social Challenges Part 1: Younger Children | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 1 Episode 5

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Navigating Our Kids' Social Challenges Part 1: Younger Children | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 1 Episode 5 · Motherhood Uncut

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey listeners, quick note about our Motherhood Uncut podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Deb and I share quite a bit of information that we bring to the table from our work with mothers and children and also our own lives.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we just want to make sure everybody knows that anytime we share a client's story, we're actually bringing to that story a number of different clients and situations that we've seen in our work rather than one particular client.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we're always going to hide revealing names so that we protect people's anonymity.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we are also on a regular basis sitting down with our girls to make sure what we share on this podcast is okay with them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So please know that anytime you hear specific details, we are really thoughtful and taking into consideration how these examples might impact others in our lives.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you're here.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Dev.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Kate.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a podcast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Number five.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Number five.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Man, we are, this is just a blast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so today we actually have a tricky topic to discuss.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to sort of uh just put out there to our listeners that we may go in and out and around and all over the place today because there's so much to say, and and even thinking about this topic stirs up my tummy because I know as mothers we get so caught up in these in these this topic, and of course, drum roll, the topic is.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: When our kids are socially struggling.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and when our kids are socially struggling, or or when we are navigating the cringy, awkward social struggles struggles of our kids.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's both when they're struggling, and it's also that that kind of what do you do in those situations, and how do you sit with your own emotion when you see your kids in pain and the whole idea of social lives of children, whether they're little kids or teenagers, just for me it turns my tummy thinking about because it reminds me of when I was younger and awkward.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And social, I mean, is so there's so many uncertainties being a social being in the world.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think actually, as we're speaking, this might be a two-parts podcast.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: What should our two parts be?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how it goes.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna see.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Great, we'll see.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so we didn't actually get a question about it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: We just decided we wanted to do it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it was based on do you want to share a client question?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, for sure.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have um I work with um moms with kids of all ages, and recently there was a situation that someone had when she was watching her school-aged child interact with other kids, and I think it was a fairly small group, if I remember correctly, maybe three or four of them.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And she was observing her child being the mean girl, right?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So she was, I think, with it must have been at like a barbecue or something, she was with other families and she was watching her kid from a distance being bossy and mean with other girls at this party.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the question she brought to our work was, what do you do?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do in that situation?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think she, like many of us, started to feel like it, her kid felt like a reflection of her.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Do you go in and do you intervene?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you talk to the other parents?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you punish her?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does she, you know, she had all of these questions.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think she's I think she's six.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, young early school age kid.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was sort of the the that was the one of many folks who came in with stories like that.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: You and I can definitely relate.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've sometimes analyzed our poor children about their dynamics together sometimes, and we're like, oh, who's leaving who out?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And who, right?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's tricky.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, can I say one thing right now?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anything.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important when we start this conversation, and this is just me being a huge advocate of girls, is that as parents, we want to be so careful to not label the mean girl.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, and nice, and that mainly because there's not an equivalent for the boy.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's no like mean boy and mom's a boy.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no mean they's there's no mean they're just mean girl.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of a cliche, isn't it?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's a cliche, and so I think, and trust me, I've definitely, definitely said, like, oh, I don't want my kid hanging with the mean girl.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so one thing I'm really working with myself on is how to remember over and over that as adults we cannot label kids for their behaviors.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start there.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I I think many people, it's probably obvious, but why don't we want to label our kids?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's the danger of that?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: They will get stuck in that.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we as adults, we unconsciously will project that onto them all the way through.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then they get stuck in a label, and we're always evolving and changing.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we all have the potential to be mean and unkind at times.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's right.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I really love to like play with that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing that is worth naming, and I completely lost it, I just I just won't play.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come back.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come back to you.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to just notice that note notice that in all of these podcasts, you and I talk, we have daughters, four daughters.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um, everything we're talking about is really applicable for you know, mothers of girls, boys, transgender kids, transitioning kids, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: There we're really this is just about mothering and parenting.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I will say though, that I think one of the things that comes up for many mothers, right, when we're watching our kids in social situations, and I think this might be more typical of moms with daughters than moms with sons, but you can correct me if I'm wrong, is that we see ourselves in them, right?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm watching my daughter be left out in a play group or a playgroup or a friend group situation, it's gonna inherently remind me of when I was a middle schooler and was left out, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And in those instances, it's not just painful to watch our kids go through their stuff, but it's painful to relive our stuff through our kids.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to be so careful about that.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, moms with boys can do that as well, but there is something interesting that happens, I think, for dads and boys or moms and girls where we see ourselves in them.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I thank you so much for saying that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then things get blurry, and things get blurry, and that's like always the thing is that when uh the little people inside of us are getting activated, and they will all the time, uh huh.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe every day, yes, it's like our perspective changes, our lens is not clear, we're not seeing it through an adult lens, and then we're gonna parent a little um clumsily, well, or not a word, clumsily, or a lot clumsily, because if we're if my eight-year-old is triggering something from when I was eight and I try to intervene in that moment, my eight-year-old is parenting.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's a shit show.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly, because eight-year-olds don't parent.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank God.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they think they might, but they don't.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so I guess I let's go back to this example I gave, right?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things we thought of today is that we would start with the sort of social dynamics of younger kids and then move towards the social dynamics of of older kids.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just gonna um share with everybody what just happened when we were talking about this podcast before we started, and we were talking about how it was important to go start with when our when kids were young first, and you said what?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right, which I wanted to say to all of you that's how this works.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: When we're in it, we feel like this is the end of the world and it's this big thing.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then the reality is we don't remember them.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: We don't remember these moments.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a blip, it's a blip.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I loved, I loved that you said that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I remember what I was gonna say.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Bring it up, bring it up.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: It goes back to labeling girls specifically and met.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we have all used the term bossy.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I think your client was saying that her daughter was being bossy, and I just get I get really fierce around calling our girls bossy, but we don't call boys bossy, in fact, we call them leaders, and so it's another thing to kind of redirect about how we look at behavior, yeah.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, oftentimes there's kids that are directors, and some kids that want to be led more, and when a kid is directing in a harsh way, the other kids usually call them out.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, and so that's actually a good segue to as moms, your client asked, you know, what do I do?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I heard several things.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's address all three, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I heard um, I heard embarrassment and shame as the mother of the kid who was quote unquote being bossy or mean, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one, that's our own like intimidate.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's everyone gonna think of me?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do I intervene?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do in that moment, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do I intervene?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um I guess I'll add it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what my three was, but I'm gonna add a three right now because I think this is important.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do we manage that and hold that and stay in connection with our kids, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things you and I talk about all the time is how important it is to let our kids know that we understand that being a kid is messy and mucky and they're gonna screw up, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have to be perfect.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: You want to take on one of those?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Will you say the first one again?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because it made me think of something else.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot again.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a long day.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: The first one, I think the first one was I am embarrassed by what these other parents are gonna think about my kid being the bossy, quote unquote, mean girl in this situation, or or boy, or bully, or whatever it is.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, right.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So here's one thing I always tell myself and my clients is that our kids come into the world with their own karma.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: We definitely hold space, we give them values, we we keep them safe, we model, we they are 100% impacted by their experience of being our children, but they also come in with their own agenda.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we sure do.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so they are not a reflection of us solely.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is so important to remember.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: I actually remember this moment where I realized that my oldest daughter had her own personality.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was early on, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, and it suddenly took this weight off my shoulders, and I was like, oh, yeah, she is not a little me.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, when she was little, we were so different.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was the kid sitting on the side of the pool playing with ponies, and I was always the kid in the pool.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like and I remember getting cringy around that, and then I was like, it sounds so simple as I'm saying it now, but at the time when it's a new, you're new to this job as being a mom, yeah, it was such a moment of relax.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to start there that like no one gets a haul pass.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not only that, not only that, but they're not just they're they're not not not a reflection of you, which is such a relief, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But they're figuring out who they are.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to figure out who they are, they have to fuck up and be a little asshole sometimes.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And try on every way.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So exact yes.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So they're so I think that's a place we start.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as moms, we just know that we tell ourselves, we laugh with other moms.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my kid was being such an ass today.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, oh my god, I was so proud of her.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: She really stood up for herself today.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to actually share the negatives and the positives equally because that's how we connect in the community of motherhood.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so that's one piece.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: The next piece that says your question, do you want to say something?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wave till after you say.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this is quick.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That um pause when the can when there's a cringy feeling, and we're especially when you're still at the playgroups and you're watching, pause.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Come back to yourself.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe go to the bathroom, put your hand on your heart, take a few breaths, unless the kid's in danger, of course, and we intervene right away.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the power of the pause actually, in so many, in so many ways, yeah, allows you to give them a little space to let them, to your point, fuck up a little and see what the natural consequences that come because they're gonna learn so much more from being pushed back by another kid than mom coming in and sweeping into this situation.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much, and I actually love incorporating what you just said into what I just said, which is that I think in moments like this, we can feel like we should know what to say or what to do.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know because I've been there, not just because this came up with a client, but I know that in those moments when when I've been like, oh my God, what is someone gonna think about me as the mom that has that kid that's being bratty or bossy or bullying or whatever that thing is, is to be able to actually turn to those people that I'm around, whether I'm close to them or not, and be able to say, wow, in this moment, I have no idea how to handle what's happening, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: My kid is making a choice that I'm not so psyched about, and I have no idea what to do, and I'm feeling really awkward about it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: It just takes off the like, I just want to name some shit shows happening over there.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's my kid, and I don't know, I'm in this with you.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and I love this so much.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's so beautiful.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I just had a moment, I want to re-do a little like appreciation of something that I've never actually shared with you.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: That there was a time where I think both of your kids were like not saying hello.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm sure I remember that time.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: They were not saying hello, and they were just going through a phase, and and you never apologized for them.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I actually remember watching you, like you didn't force them to say hello.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you'd model it, you'd be like, hello, Deb, and like maybe over-exaggerated a little bit, but you weren't like, say hello, say hello.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember learning from you in that moment of like, don't force your kid to be something they're not.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was really, really graceful.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: What you didn't see was the all the dinners when Jamie and I were practicing and role-playing how to say hello and look a grown-up in the eye.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was all happening behind the scenes.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which is actually a beautiful thing because then it's saying that in our family system, we talk about the uncomfortable stuff, but I'm not gonna shame you in front of another parent.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it's that shaming, or I remember like humiliating almost a kid.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're not meaning, none of us moms are meaning to, but to be like, say sorry, say sorry, you know, it's like and the kid might not feel sorry.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then there's humiliation that is actually sending the kid a message that's pretty strong.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that you would do it in behind closed doors.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: We spent a lot of time in our family trap.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're still working on that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the next question that came up in this younger child example is what do you do, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're watching this, sometimes we're not there.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes some other parent just says, Hey, your kid was being mean to my kid today, right?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we see it happening.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the question is, what do you do?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you intervene?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you punish?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you what do you do?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a thought on that?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I want to hear yours.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's always gonna be circumstantial.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I never think there's a one-size-fits-all, but I do think that, okay, so let's say you're not there and you hear about it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know my favorite word.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's my favorite word?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, you're putting me on the spot.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Curiosity.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, curiosity.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is start with curiosity.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So let's back up.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: First, be with myself, recognize my trigger, what's coming up for me.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Then I might call you and go to an adult place and cringe out with you for a minute and like just either be upset or mad or cry or embarrassed or all the things that are normal and natural emotional responses tend to my emotions.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, in order to go back to them with from a grounded curious place.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always start with, hey, tell me about the play date today.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and then if they're just like nothing, then I might then I might be really transparent and be like, you know what, I gotta call.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually really like honesty always.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I gotta call.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I learned.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to hear your part.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like what was happening for you?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can I put a little footnote in here?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really think it's important for us to differentiate between transparency and authenticity.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a great time when it's important to be authentic, but maybe not transparent.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you meant authentic, but I just want to, for our listeners, clarify that because please, yes.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because transparency might be like, I got a call from your teacher, and I'm really humiliated that that happened.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And right, it's really it's like oversharing an experience.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Authenticity is a little gentler, it's a little less detailed, but you're still being real, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I received this call and I'm concerned.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's authenticity.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to clarify.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't need to know our emotional state like all the time.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is totally not okay.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: They don't even know what to do with their own emotions, let alone ours.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I guess that's my answer is like start with curiosity, get their story, hear their version.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if if the stories don't line up, it's another conversation.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's I think it's always more amazing to ask the question, what's your part?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: What's your part?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you want to do about it?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like there's always a way to fix it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: There really is always a way to apologize, to own it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are you laughing at?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but you're it's interesting.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love the way you're framing that because you're asking questions, you're not giving advice.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: What is your part?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to do about it?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've heard you say this, and I certainly do too.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is this, would you like my help with this before just explaining and giving help?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: What about if?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, let's let's turn the situation a little bit.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: What about if you're not privy to it and your kiddo comes up and says to you, so and so is leaving me out?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and you're like at a gathering, there are other parents, the kids are there.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: I guess my question is do you what do you do?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: My first thing always is reflect and validate.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: What would that sound like?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds really hard.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like you're feeling really sad about that, or oh, that does not feel good.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know that feeling of being left out.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: It does not feel good.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's enough.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting because I think if we're not being mindful, I always say the hardest part of mothering for me is recognizing that it's not my job to prevent my kids' pain.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and if we're not being mindful, we'll try to fix their feelings, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, don't worry about it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that they'll, you know, go talk to them.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they'll invite you later.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or fuck them.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like some justification or some preachy advice giving or some like, oh, I can't, it's hard for me to see you in pain.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't want you to feel pain.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna try to say something so you don't feel that pain.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, in my experience, that only increases the pain.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, to your point, if we just reflect, sometimes that they're like, I'm good, I'm good.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to be heard.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I just want to say for most listeners out there, it is the natural response to want to take away their pain.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: That is the most instinctual mother mama bear.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is a learned behavior.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it goes hand in hand with the paws.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: When we reflect, everything slows down for a little bit.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's always a starting place.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually think that this is a good place to kind of wrap up younger people.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can actually talk about a little bit when they get into more 10 to 16, 17, that range of when we're watching them make really uncomfortable choices, awkward, cringy.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do then?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so much more to say about this.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I know that we can go so much deeper into all these things.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think you're right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's do a part two next week on how to deal with teenage school, school onto teenage social challenges.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I just know that this is a place that you and I are both in right now.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but I'd like to invite our listeners to actually come in with more concrete questions about this younger age.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can you in closing, can you think of a couple of um common topics or kind of curiosities or awkward moments for parents of kids that are younger that many of these folks might be feeling sort of social?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like one I can think of is when your kid is the one kid not invited to a birthday party.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did anything else come to mind that might be places that could whet our are the palate of our listeners and they could write in specific questions that they might ha want some support on?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I think being left out is a huge one.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think if we're in kind of um the boy or those who identify as boy realm, there can be a lot around sports.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've often heard when there's like some really aggressive behavior in on the field and how to tend to that, which is a really important conversation because so often there's like this kind of internal conflict about being tough and also being a good player, and so it's a it's an important conversation that can happen.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I also think That when you feel like you don't have any friends.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really common story.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of kids don't always feel like they have their first person.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the danger of the best friend.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means for young people.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: All your eggs in one basket.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And school age is when that sort of popular group, unpopular group, whatever that means, starts.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, so so I guess I wanted to just sort of put that out there.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if any of you listening have specific questions about any of those things, or you have other topics you want to dive deep into, go on to our Instagram at motherhooduncut podcast and put a message in there so that we know what you're thinking.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: We will also get on there.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Deb and I will both get on there and have little conversations with you if you want more clarification.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but I think this is a good start to this question about social dynamics in our kids.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Love you.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Love you.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, listeners.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, listeners.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.