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SMNTY Interviews: E. Jean Carroll · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: One Never told you a productive by Heart Radio. Before
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: we get into today's episode, just a quick content warning
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: or we're just going to be discussing some topics around
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: sexual assaults. I feel like Donald Trump is kind of
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a warning in it himself. But the book we're talking
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: about today at large does go into it. Highly recommend
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: you read it. Don't. We barely touch the surface. There's
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: so much that we didn't get to talk about in
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: this conversation, so go check it out, but just know
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: that that is something that is in there. And today
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: we are so excited to be joined by journalist and
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: author of the New York Times best selling book Not
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: My Type One Woman Versus A President, Ejene Carroll.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Yay exactly.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm just glad to see that you are here.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I hear you've been on jury duty.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: I yes, I was.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: I actually tried to look up the case because I
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: did get dismissed. They didn't like me enough or they
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: were afraid of me, one of the two things.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: So I got dismissed.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: What was the case? What was the case?
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: It was malicious murder, and a lot of felonies with that.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: So it was a shooting that happened here in Decatur
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: slash Atlanta. So I was it was going to be
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: at least a five day trial, We're pretty sure.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: But no, at least yeah. Yeah.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: So I was like, hey, so our jury, Yeah, our
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: initial jury questioning took two days and they didn't even
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: finish with us. They were just like, okay, wow, we
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: got at least forty something out of the sixty. We'll
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: see if we can pick from there. So it was
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: it was definitely a lot longer than I anticipated. And
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: that was actually my first time at being present. I
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: usually get dismissed before. So after the questioning, I don't
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: think they liked the fact that I said I was
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: on a podcast for.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Into social feminism.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: No immediate dismissal, immediate, right, So what else did they ask?
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: You asked me about that? It was really kind of
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: funny because you know how they ask about jobs. They're
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: like podcast, you know, with like kind of a doubt,
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, I understand, it's a job,
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: I promise, But I had experienced as a social worker
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: in like the Department of General Justice as well as
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: investigating the abuse.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: So they were like, yeah, all of that, we're just.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Going to go no unless oh boy, oh no. The
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: prosecutor was extremely smart, I want to put you on
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: the jury.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know if they argued about me.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of I bet you they did. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: What was the racial makeup of the people who showed
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: up for jury duty.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: It was actually pretty mixed in race, because I think
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: there was like the least amount was Asian people and
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Latina people, but there was a lot of very heavy
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: like black community base, especially in that area, as well
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: as white. So essentially I think it's good more more
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: black community than any other demographic. Yeah, decatury kind of
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: it kind of hits that way, right. But yeah, and
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: I see what you're doing. I see you're questioning me
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: and using your interview skills over here. This is not
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: this is not this episode, ma'am.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: No, ma'am.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: It's just jurors are fascinating.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: They are. You're right, it was. It was interesting.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I was kind of both of those, like, I don't
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: have time for this, and the thought of being on
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: this type of trial really makes me a little anxious,
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: So I didn't want to be on it, But at
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: the same time, I'm still curious and I kind of
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: want to know how that played out, and especially knowing
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: the jurors, like we had enough time to all talk
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: about our thoughts, and I was.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Like, Oh, this is going to be an interesting makeup.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in jurors. Of course, because we before first
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: trial against Donald Trump, we had something called mock jury's.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Oh really, this is jury X is a big, big
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: cases where a lot is at stake, And there was
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: a lot at stake because I had sued the sitting
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: president of the United States, right, and so it's my
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: jories of where you present your arguments to twenty seven
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: typical jurors to see if your arguments are working. You know,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: you don't quite, yeah, you know. So we put on
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: an entire trial in front of twenty seven typical New
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: York is in a big ballroom in downtown New York.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: We put on witnesses, we had videotapes, we had someone representing,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: We had Donald Trump represented by one of our lawyers
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: who played Joe Talker Big Oh, the great criminal defense lawyer.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And the case went. We thought the arguments were brilliant,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: and then the twenty seven typical New York jerors met
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: to discuss the cases, and they were divided into three
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: of nine each. And here's what they decided. They all
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: agreed that, yes, two people could end up in a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman. Yes, and yes, they agreed
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: that two people could involve involve themselves in something sexual
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: in a dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman in nineteen ninety six.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: And they agreed that the two people in the dressing
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: room and Bergdorf Goodman were Donald Trump and EJ. And Carroll.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: But what they all thought was that I was begging
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: him for it, all of them pretty much, Wow, pretty much,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: all the men pretty much Now it was that it
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: was because I was They saw me on videotape and
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: a deposition I was too old, too dissiccated, too much
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: of an old crone that they couldn't imagine what it
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: was like in nineteen ninety six. Sequence is, So then
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: we had to redo my hair like it was in
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: ninety six, to the makeup like it was in ninety six.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I wore clothes that I actually owned and wore in
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. And so that's what we did. And
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: we found out our arguments were way off. We thought
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: we were doing a case for all women, right, We thought,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: you know this is going to be where this is.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: You know, powerful men may not always be believed perhaps
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: a woman has a story. Oh no, uh uh no.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: The gender divide is as strong as ever in this country.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: We found out. And Robbie Kaplan, the great you know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: legal mind of her generation, my attorney said, from now on,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: this case is not for all a woman, Jean, this
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: case is about you and Donald Trump. And he lied, right.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: So that's why I'm so fascinated with Jerry's Yeah, that
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. I mean, I mean, isn't
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: It's just fascinated.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: We had the best case of the world. They didn't.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: They didn't see it because I'm too old, too old,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: too ugly.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: So yeah, and you did an amazing job in opening
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: this because yes, you essentially had that as an introduction
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: for this amazing book before we start, because we did
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: mention who you were and what we're specifically talking about today.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: But and I think people you really don't need that
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: big of an introduction.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: The minute I saw your name in our email, I
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: was like, yes, yes, yes, we need to talk to
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: her and me, But can you introduce yourself to our
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: listeners just in case?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Well, how do you do? How do you do? I'm
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Eg and Carol. I'm a journalist, the journalist for fifty years.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I was an advice columnist for Elle for twenty seven years,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: and I've led a really fascinating, wonderful and incredible life.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I was missed cheerleader USA, and I happen to suit well, okay,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I happen to be the only person on the planet
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: to have beaten Donald Trump twice.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: The balloons are amazing. I'm so in love with that, guest.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Listeners, there balloons happening in the back ground.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: Oh, there's so much to your life story that I
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: really there's so many things that we could talk about,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: and I really hope we can be friends enough that
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: you want to come on to our show again so
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: that we can have a deep dive about your life
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: and all the things that you've experienced just alone and
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: like your vice columns, and because you were kind of
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: the beginning with the many others to like talk about
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: what it is to have a call based on people
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: asking you for your advice. You talk about therapists asking
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: you for your advice, So we want to have you
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: on for so much more. So please, if you have
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: any free time and you want to hang out with
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: two lonely girls in the South, we need to come
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: back on for more.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: But now, why, why would anybody want to come on
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the show of two women who have decided to do
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: a podcast every single day of the week.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: Who are you?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Why would you do every day? That's a great question,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: that is true.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: One must ponder that before accepting our offer.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Wow, do you fill one of the spaces up again?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's a huge accomplishment. Then people get addicted
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: to you and then they've got to hear it. You know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: you become part of their day. So that's in a
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: way very wise, very yeah, you.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Know, kind of like the whole jury divide.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: I think there's a love and hate for us.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you, do you run out of things
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: to say? We have yet?
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think with the way in the state
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: of the world, Oh, there's other things. At least we
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: can update because we have to constantly update because of
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: the way things have changed so quickly, and as long
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: as we have the freedom to do so, we will.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Much like having you on the show, which we are
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: so privileged to have you on this show. But yeah,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: like right now.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: We have to kind of go into the darkness, if
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: you will. But there's plenty there in that darkness. I
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: don't want a hard time and trying to find the
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: optimistic point of view.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: So it must be amazing that you had to really
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: start turning towards the dark because I know you two
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily that's not your life vision. No, no, no,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: it's not.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I've been doing this. I've been on this podcast either
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: as a producer or editor since twenty ten.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Way minute, I didn't start as a host.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Until like, I think twenty eighteen, Wow, but I was producing, editing,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and so seeing like the timeline of how things have
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: changed in this space has been really really.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Wild, particularly the road that women have taken since twenty ten. Yes, yes, indeed.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Well, one thing we wanted to talk about before we
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: get into your book more in depth is that you
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: do have this really varied writing career for SNL. You're
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: a contributing editor for Playboy, the Advice column ask Egene,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: numerous books. You've had a lot of adventures doing it.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: How did you get into writing?
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: H When I was twelve, I sent off my first
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: pitch letter to the series of Robot catalogs. I had
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: an idea for a story. I just I was raised
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: in a house full of magazines. One of the high
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: points in my childhood was my father coming home waving
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Time magazine and saying, they've published my letter in Time Magazine.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And the whole street where we lived was like, Oh
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: my god, Tom Carrol's got his letter publishing Time Magazine.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: So I thought, wow, this is pretty exciting being in
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: a magazine, right, So that's sort of what I wanted
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: to do. And I spent twenty five years after pitching
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the series in Roebuck Caalog at d Asy Joe, took
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: me twenty five years to get in my first magazine.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Twenty five years. Can you imagine the hideous ambition drive
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: lust to be a magazine that would drive some poor
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: woman twenty five years through no, no, no, no, the
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: blizzard of nos from New York editor. I never got
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: a yes. I never got a yes. And then in Esquire,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: a woman named Marilyn Johnson picked my poor Manila envelope
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: off the top of their slush pile. And Esquire at
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the time was the just the most brilliant literary magazine
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: in the country, and their slushpile. I have pictures of
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: were five and six feet tall. That's how tall they're
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: sus strong and she having to pick it off and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: she called me and they accepted it. So that's all
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I needed to get in, you know, Once I was in,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: You know, once you're in, you're in. And I got
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: my big size of loving shoe in that Esquire door,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: and that's all I needed.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I love that. Like, there's so many questions.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: I have a feeling this is going to be a
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: long interview because every time you kept give us like
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: such great storytelling information, I have like more questions that
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: come off of that. So so hopefully we can get
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: through this from the hour.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: A lot it to us. If not, I'm telling you
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: we want you to come back. But all of that
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: to say, how did you deal? What's twenty five? What
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: made you keep going?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Within?
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: Like having twenty five years of a projection? Because I'm
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: one of those that, like you hurt my feelings, I
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: might just leave that life be enough for me of
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: a rejection, but you pushed through and that's a dedication
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: in itself.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: How what made you keep going.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: The glamorous life of a magazine writer was is almost
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: unimanageable today. To work for a magazine meant you had
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the ticket. They would send you anywhere in the world
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to write about people you had never met, would never
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: see again, about some subjects you knew nothing about, and
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: they would send you away and you would get it
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: was the life was so adventuresome and so glamorous that
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I couldn't help but want to just be right in
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the middle of everything. And it turned out to be true.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: It turned out to be it turned out. I mean,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I mean the off days in you know, the eighties,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: at the peak of magazine Glamour, running down the boulevards
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: at three point thirty in the morning, you know, getting
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: eating a French onion soup at four in the morning,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: you know, just going just it's just you just banging
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: on life. It's ship ringing every bell. And there are
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: several books out right now about the Glamour's eighties magazine,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the Graydon Carter biography, there's one now about Condie ask
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: coming out. But it really was. It was romantic and uh,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: you know it was. It was a stupendous stupendous Unfortunately
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Now do you know what our new magazines are. Our
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: new magazines are now podcasts. That's what the new magazines are.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: That's it that the podcasts have taken over. Well, I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: think it's pretty cool. I think it's pretty cool.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: So interesting format.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: I will say for sure I want the Glamorers part
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: because I think your life story, your career story.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Where's your HBO series? You need one.
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: You need it just to tell the people out there
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: and if someone does pick it up, I want I
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: want a personage.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I need it.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I need here.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you. That's smart.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: That's smart. I'm there, my name, I'll here, y'all.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: Okay again, Like I said, I have a feeling we're
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: going to have so much to talk about, and I'm
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: going to try to focus.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I promise, I'm going to try to focus in.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: Your book, not my type one woman versus a President, which,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: by the way, what a title delves into your two
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: lawsuits against Donald Trump. So before we get into the specifics,
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: could you break down the lawsuits so we and the
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: audience are all on the same page. Annoying, especially what
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: you thought of with the lawsuit and everything else.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Could you break that down for us?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Very simple in nineteen ninety six, Donald Trump and I
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: ran into each other in front of Bergdorf Goodman. Burgdorf
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Goodman is a luxury department. It's not a department store.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: It's a specialty shore. It's like no other store on
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the base of the earth. It's a mansion at seven floors,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: and it's just brillant. He asked me to help him
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: find a gift for a friend. I was delighted. That
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: was my job. That's my business. I advise people. So
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: it turned very dark when we got to the sixth floor,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and it was so bad that I stayed silent about
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: it for almost thirty years. And then the Weinstein story
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: hit the cover of the New York Times, remember that,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and the waves of women standing up and telling their story.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I just said, well, I am the biggest hypocrite of
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: all time. God damn it. That's seventy game five. I'm
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: not going to be silent any longer. And I told
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: my story. He when it hit. It was on the
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: cover of New York magazine when it hit for three
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: straight days from the White House. He called me a liar,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: and he said I was a liar twenty six different times.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I knew there would be a ruckus I had. I
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: was no, I was not at all prepared for what
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: for that? And at a party at Molly Jong Fast,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: who you should also have on your podcast. She just
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: wrote a great book about her mother. I ran into
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: George Conway, of all people, and George was the first
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: person to actually tell me about possibly something called a lawsuit.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: George was, of course as a famous lawyer in his
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: own right. He went to he was, you know, five
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: bigger capitin from Harvard. He went to Yale Law School,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: he started the Lincoln Project, and he explained to me
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: what a lawsuit is. Nobody'd ever really taken the time,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: and he said, actually he wrote a piece about it
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: in the Washington Post that George was a famous Republican
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: by the time at the party, he had written a
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: big op ed in the Washington Post to his fellow
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Republicans saying, if you believe Jannita Broaderick, remember why Nita
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Brodrick is a woman who claimed that President Clinton had
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: raped her. So George's op ed piece was, if you
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: believe Jannita Broadrick, you gotta believe Egene Caroll because she
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: has a better case, a stronger case. So I went
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: over to think and then that's when he explained that
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I had a lawsuit, and it was I never thought
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of lawsuits. I was not thinking of loss of Other
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: people are saying are you going to sue? Are you
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: going to sue? And I it would just it would
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: not mean anything because I didn't even know what that meant.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: So he said, and I may be able to help.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Think of someone to help you. And the next day
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: here's an email saying introductory email and there were two
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: words Robbie kaplan. It was like a bomb going off,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: because you know, Robbie at that time was just trouncing
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the Nazis in Charlottesville. She'd open the way to gay
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: rights in America with windsor she was really, she really
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: is one of the great legal minds is ever practice
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: law in the whole United States. So we met two
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: days later and that was it. I knew the minute
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I shook her hand that this is what I wanted
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: to do. So we sued him for defamation. We sued
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: the sitting president for defamation. That started a long trip
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: and suit him for defamation. He asked the DOJ to
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: step in and to pay his legal bills and represented
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: him well. That case was stopped. A second case, I
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: sued him again for sexual abuse because New York State
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: passed something called the Adult Survivors Act. So then midnight
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: on Thanksgiving I sued him again for sexual assault. So
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: now we have two suits. Okay, the one with sexual
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: assault and defamation went first. That we won unanimous juror
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: said Trump was liable for sexual abuse and defamation. We
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: totally won that. Two days later, after we won, Trump
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: went on the CNN town hall and re said and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: redid everything. He had just paid me five million dollars
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: because he said in the person. So I sued him
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: again and that became. That was added to the first suit.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So the second trial was only about damages. We had
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: proved there was sexual assault, so we didn't need what now.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: It was about damage done to me. And that was
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the big trial, and he misbehaved every single It was
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: wonderful just to see him in court. Oh my god,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the apercot makeup, the hair done up like Barbara Stanwick
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: in bull Offire, I mean, the antics. It was an fretto.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: It was just after each day's trial he would go
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: out and say, this is a travesty of judgment. I deserve.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I deserve the damage she hurt me. Why you know why? Why? So?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: So that was the second trial, and that one we won.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: And he's being made to pay eighty three point three
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: million dollars for his lives and the damage he did
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to me because he killed my reputation.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: He just killed it, right, And I know just last
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: month he lost the appeal to that, which is even
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: more glorious to.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: No, he always loses the appeals. He loses every single aval.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: He must be exhausted from losing. I mean he must.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: He just must see Robbie Caplan's face and just fake
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: from bear because he cannot. He cannot win this case.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: He cannot win it. He's exhausted the appeals on the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: first truck, the five million dollars draft, he's lost all that.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: The only thing he can do now is go to
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. He has sixty days to go and
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: he hasn't gone yet, So I don't know what he's
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think. Well, wait a minute, Annie Samanthy, what
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: do you think do you think this Supreme Court is
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: going to want to hear a case where the President
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: of the United States, who they all apparently worship, sexual
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: abuse of women. Do do you think they want to
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: hear that case?
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: I want to hear, yeah, I mean would they hear
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: I don't because there's too much.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: I don't Trump, You're trying to get me in trouble.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: There's a lot to be said that this Supreme Court,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: especially the way is stacked, is there purposely and for
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: a reason, and it's for Trump's advantage. So I think,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: like I would hesitate saying that, I don't think they
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: would want to hear it, but I don't think they
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: would completely dismiss it. So who knows. Who knows? Because
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: also we're not legal. I'm not a legal person, so.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: That you know, but you're but you're a highly intelligent person.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense that during these Epstein days that
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: they would hear anything.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: And that's the other question to that is if he
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: does well that open it up, because you mentioned that
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: in your book and about the fact that you had
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: that as like in your back pocket. That could be
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: like if he was smart about it, I would think
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: that he especially because he's I feel like he's done
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: everything he can try to suppress that information. So this
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: seems like if you were But then again, I don't
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: know the level of intelligence.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I don't kindly that I'm good.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Trouble well, maybe that the level of intelligences they may
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: want to help him when right.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: Right, Well, also, like I said, the level of touches
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: are like, this may give you an avenue to open
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: up all of that moot questions.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: About oh it would not yes, exactly, it would not
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: be smart. Because their own argument, I here, do you
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: know what Trump's argument is on this case? Tell me,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: oh boy, you're not gonna believe it. You are not
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: gonna believe it. Trump is saying because one of my witnesses.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Remember I had eleven witnesses at the first trial, which
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: is unusual because there are usually never any witnesses when
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: sexual assault takes places. Well, we had eleven witnesses. One
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: of those witnesses was Jessica Leads and you remember her.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: She was the woman who he assaulted on the airplane
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty Okay, and he's always denied it, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: there are cases that she should not have been a witness.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Are you ready for this? You better grip your desks.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: You got a grip, because I don't want you to
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: fall to the floor.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Their argument is she should not have been allowed to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: be a witness because when he assaulted her in nineteen eighty,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: assaulting a woman on an airplane was not a crime
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: A feeling you're gonna say that because in the air Yeah, oh.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: My gosh, I thought it was gonna be that she
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: should have had her own case, which is also pretty damy.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I can I feel like that.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: That's thinking, that's how that so.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: So this is why I say I go back and forth,
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: like I would say, rationally he should not, but then again,
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: his ego as well as the fact that yes, he's
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: he will continue to lose to you in order to
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: try to win, which is also a thing.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But right now, cool, that's that's I like that. I
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm just saying that
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: there's so much to.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: That that that's like he is one of those and
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: then his team whatever whatnot.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: He's got the mess lawyers in the country. You know,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: he's maybe trying to get more money from Yeah, they
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: they're all now Alena Habba is now as you know,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: attorney general. You know, Joe Takapina goes on to his
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: attorneys are all okay, Alena Habba Esquire doesn't know Diddley
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: squat about the law. Okay, we understand that, we understand that.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: But she's brilliant. She's a great politician, mark my words.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: She will be running percentate soon. She is. And she's
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: got the stuff. She's got beauty, brains, confidence, she can
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: do it all. She just doesn't know anything about the
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: law anything.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Uh, you know, it doesn't sound like a requirement needed
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: for any of those some decisions at this point in time.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things about Trump's, like people in
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: his orbit that I'm like, this is just you want
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: someone who looks a certain way and who loves you.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of what I was reading in
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: the book I felt was less about the law and
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: more that they were trying to play on people's ideas
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: about sexual assault or people's ideas like these things they
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: know have worked, but they're not like actually using a
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: good law case, like they're just playing to these ideas
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: and the jury. Which one of the things that stuck
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: out to me is you do start the book and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you say, you know, I want you to be as
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: discombobulated as I was during this whole process and you
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: can just see scripts of the questions you got asked,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: and it was very telling of what they were trying
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to paint, the story they were trying to tell. And
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I think the title you know, not my type. You
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: talked about that a little bit more a little bit earlier,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: but that's something we've discussed. We've been very open about
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: our own experiences with sexual assaults, and one of the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: things with mine was that the first, one of the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: first things I thought was, no one's going to believe
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: me because I'm not pretty enough.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I never believe it.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And you talk about that in the book where you
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: say you wrote, nobody's going to believe an eighty year
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: old woman was ever attractive enough to assault. So can
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: you talk about that and why you titled the book that.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Well, the title is It's just too delicious because he
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: was sitting at the what's the famous desk called the
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: what's his the resolute desk. Yeah, he was sitting at
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: the resolute desk when reporters from the Hill ask him
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: about this assault and he said to the reporters from
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: the White House, as President, she's not my type. Okay,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Then missus Robbie Kaplan gets him in a deposition. She's
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: at Mary Largo and he's on camera and everybody's recording him,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: and she gets in to say several times that he
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: has been shown a photograph of me. She tells him
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: three times she is about to show him a photograph
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: of the plaintip e Gen Carrol. She's fair, but she's
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: like Odesssius. She just lays trap after a trap, and
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: like the cyclops, poor old Trump is gonna fall in
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: to most of other things. So, after telling him three
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: times she's gonna show, she shoves a nice black and
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: white photo across to him. He's got four people in it.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: She says, can you identify the people in this photograph?
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Immediately he says, that's John Johnson. Why John Johnson is
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: on TV? That's the first person. He's my ex husband,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: great guy. Then he slides past Ivana. He says, I
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: don't know who that is, and then he points right
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: at me. He says that's Marla, and Mama said you're
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: saying that. Mom. He says, yes, yeah, that's my wife.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Then Haba lips in says no, that's Carol, and then
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Trump says uh huh, nod and nods, and then he
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: says about seven seconds later, the photo is blory. The photo,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: of course, is as clear as just It's just crystal
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: and clear. So it was odd. If you see pictures
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of Marla and me from the time we are, it's
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: difficult to tell us apart. I mean, it's really a
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: strange thing. So most attorneys at that point would have said, look,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: it's over, you've got no case. I mean, that's it.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: That's but he of course went on and so the
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: not my type thing is so he says not my type,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: and then he says, yes, that's smart. So of course
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I'm going to title the book not my Type because
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: he's not my type. He is not my type. And
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's your type. Anny, I don't think
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: he's your type. Samantha, I don't think he's our type,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: do you. No, I don't know. We need to hear
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: from your listeners. We need to hear from listeners. Is
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: down Trump your type? I don't know, it's down Trump
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: your tribe. Seriously, I'm a little nauseated.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: We can't talk about this in context of its human No.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: No, can I just say for the listeners. I have
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: them on camera. They're both looking like they're well, I
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: don't know. They're holding their hands over their mouths. I
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: don't know. You're trying to get.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Us in trouble for real, for real?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: What you no? Oh my goodness.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Well okay, so you already talked about your your mock
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: jury and like the outcome of that child and how
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: it was like, okay, now we have to change our argument.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: As a part of this, you tried to recreate how
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: you looked at the time. You even hunted down the
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: hairstylist who gave.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: You the bob.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: You recreated outfits, right, Can you explain why that was
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: so important?
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I had to give the jury of an echo of
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: the woman that was attacked in Brodors. They couldn't see
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: it from me just sitting there. So we had to
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: create the look, the same look that I had in
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, And so when they held up pictures
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: of me in nineteen ninety six, they could really put
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: it together with the woman who was sitting at the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: plaintiff's table. Because we were against a force so large
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: and so powerful, the only thing that could fight that
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: bors was fact. And that's what that's what we use. Fact.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: She is Okay. They could see Okay, there's a dim
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: echo of the woman that we're talking about here. That's
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: what we had to go with.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: That's such an odd situation in prepping for our trials
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: is that you have to play or look the part
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: in order to be of course, a believed, be even
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: heard at any point in time into that you have
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: to go through the most invasive questions that seems nonsensical
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: half the time, like why are we even talking about this?
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: My personal life has nothing to do with that specific incident.
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: And at one point, I know the Trump team asked
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: you about.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Your lovers, like they needed to go through.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: A whole list and even descriptors of people. And by
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: the way, we just recently had an episode about Zubale Zoo.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: So when Ben Vereen came on your list, I was like, wait,
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: what wait what.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: I did?
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: I was like, I was like, what ben En, I'm
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: just talking about him anyway, moving on with a wow.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: I was just like, it just made me. That made
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: me my fuck. And you were able to respond with detail.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately, because they kept asking you things like all of
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: that seems so over the top in any like, this
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: has nothing to do with anything. But with all of that,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: a how were you able to go through and honestly
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: do this type of interview uh with the humor that
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: you were able to insert into this book, because that
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: in itself made me die a little bit, just the
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: thought of having to replay, like tell about my personal
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: life to talk about a really horrific incident A I'm like,
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: wait what and then you did it with such finesse
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: in the book, but also just being able to do
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: it seemingly respectfully to them and just what it wasn't
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: like to go through that type of questioning.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Talking about my lovers was one of the most fabulous moments.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I got to enjoy it. I loved it. I love
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: talking about my lovers. Love it. You want to talk
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: about my lovers of Lena Square, let's talk.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: About you literally gave the accolades.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I started off with a gold medal, Olympic world record
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: holding butterfly jam. You know, so it was It was
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the one moment in that deposition when I felt I
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: was flying with happiness, said, lifted the whole room. It
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: was fantastic. It was just yeah, she asked me questions.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Elena Hobba asked, why asked me questions like that? To
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: shame me to you million to make me look like
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: a fluozy, but you know, it made no sense. Why
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: is she asking me about my lovers when they say
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: he wasn't even there, when they say it didn't even happen.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So the minute she's starting to ask me about my lovers,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I know that she knows that she knows he was
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: there right at Bergvios. So that really the absurdity of
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: the trump So the book is comic, a high high comedy,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: because it's absurd if he wasn't there, why are they
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: asking me why I didn't scream? Did that make sense?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Didn't make sense? Is it absurd? Yes? Is it funny? Yes,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: it's funny. You know, you don't tear a part of woman,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: you know, for not screaming when he wasn't there. So yeah,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: that's why the book is fine.
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: Right, And the level of like humor that you do
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: put in this does kind of also reflecting like the
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: moments of seeing what's going on that you can't help
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: but just laugh about the absurdity of it all. And
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: that's one of the things that really really push you
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: about in that moment of like you not realizing the
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: ill intent that was about to happen, and we like,
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: we talk about this all the time, and we've gotten
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: criticized by listeners, by men specifically saying that we as
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: a host giggle too much because we do talk about
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: a lot of serious things, and our response is to
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: kind of laugh at it because we can't do anything else.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: It feels like it feels like if we don't laugh
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: at it, we might fall apart. Or it just feels
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: like we have to look at the absurdity beyond what's
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: right in front of us, because if we don't, none
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: of it would make sense. Not that it makes sense anyway,
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: but at least we can find a little like calming
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: in laughter, which has a lot.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Of keep it up and keep it up, keep it
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: up there, so one thing that's one of our great weapons. Exactly,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: they don't like to be laughed at. Exactly, Keep laughing, ladies,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: keep laughing, go for it. Keep it up. That you're
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: being criticized as a good sign, that's a good sign.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Do not stop with the giggling, and do not stop
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: with the laughing, please. It's a show of strength and
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: confidence that you can laugh, shows that you are not
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: looking dead, like you know what's happening. Is flattening out
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the country. Because if you're laughing, that is a good sign.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: It's a sign of strength. Do not stop it, Jesus.
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: Come on, take this audio clip and put it somewhere
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: in my like affirmations. But this is this is something
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: Trump's lawyer made a big deal about, and they tried
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: to try to use against you that you laughed instead
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: of screening. Why do you think they focus so much
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: on that. Maybe you just said it because it is
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: a strength, But why do you think they focused so
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: hard hoping that that would discredit you somehow.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Well, they've now set winning back fifty years, fifty years
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: taking away our rights. So of course their argument is
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: going to come from the seventeenth century or this fifteenth century,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: or from the Bible. Actually they're going to go two
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: thousand years back, and I better have being screamed or
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I'm lying. That is one of the oldest arguments. Actually,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: it's in the Bible. So it's just the Republican way
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: of seeing women. And Joe Tacapino in one of the
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: great criminal defense lawyers. He got asap Rocky Off, he
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: got Michael jacksonaw acquitted, he got the Sopranos killer killer off.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: He got the guy who bludgeoned Natalie Holloway down in
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: a rub but got him out of jail for like
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: nine years. He's one of the great criminal defense lawyers.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump of course hires him because Donald Trump Trump
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: has committed a crime, so criminal defense lawyer. And I
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: think that Joe Taccapino was smart enough not to do
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: this old argument because Joe has daughters. Joe knows better.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I think Trump was telling him what to argue. I
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: think Trump was telling him from what I hear reported
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: about Trump, you know, telling his a lawyer. Well, actually
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I heard him every single day telling Elena Hobbit what
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: to say, what to do, So I think he must
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: have done that with Joe Tacopina. And I think that
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: was Trump's argument. I don't think that was Joe Tacopina's argument.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I think Joe Tacopina was doing what his client wanted
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: him to do. U they beat up I mean for
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: not going to the police. Oh my god, has he
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: ever met a woman? I mean, a woman knows if
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: she goes to the police, some man may retaliate. Correct,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: the woman may lose her job. Correct, she may not
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: be able to feed her family. I mean, that's why
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: you don't go to the police. There's they want. She
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: didn't want her family to find out who's the police
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: will be talking to everybody her life is basically you
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: go to the police, forget your life going on ever again.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: But if you don't go to the police, if you
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: stay quiet, no they don't know about it, and your
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: life can go on. These are the decisions that women
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: are forced in the making when they're assaulted. It's it's
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: and then to be banged on for not going to
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: the police. I just I was amazed at the ignorance.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: But it's not ignorance. It's a you of women.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: Right right, And it's still in today with like, if
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: she really was scared, if she really did go through
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: these things, you would go to the police. In the Yeah,
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: have you seen the police state? They probably wouldn't even
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: taken that case. They probably would have just been like, oh,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: we'll take care of it and let you walked out.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: Like the amount of like question and especially the fact
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: that it's happening today in nineteen ninety six, what were
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: you wearing.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: What were you doing?
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: Did you go in with him alone? Just saying that
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: you were at the store with him would probably be like, no,
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: you don't have a case, and I would have dismissed it.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: There's nothing.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: The minute I read those sentences from him, I was angry.
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: I was like, what the hell are you talking about?
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Do you not know about like the amount of cases
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: that actually never go in front of the court ever
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: when they are reported.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Oh no, it's only out of a thousand cases. It's
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: out of a thousand, it's only that go to trial
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: and the man is convicted. I think out a thousand,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I think five. Yeah, convicted, I think single digit number
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah. No, it's it's shock.
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly exactly, which is which is amazing because we've
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: had episodes when we talked about Me Too era, like
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: that's kind of how we started as a duo, talking
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: about you know, triggers and trauma warnings and why things
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: like this, especially in the METWO era, was important. But
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: we also talked about the importance of civil lawsuits and
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: how they are most of the time the only way
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: to get any justice anyway. In the sexual assault cases,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: they're sexual haress.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: But nobody has enough money to do the thing.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: And they don't even know how to do that. Yeah,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: there's so much to that conversation about why.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: And then also just in the like ideal of suing
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: immediately gets pitched as she's a gold digger, she's a
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: money immediately immediately, but like a case like yours has
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: changed the trajectory, especially with you being so loud about
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: how this is about.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: Reclaiming my name and how important that is.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Just alone, that was really the only thing, and in
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: the end it did. It did as Robbie Kaflin figured out,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: it would hurt him to give a bunch of money, right,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: particularly if we gave the money away to help women exactly.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: The fact that he's losing on such a large platform,
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: large scale is beautiful to see because it takes more
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: and more to be like see, no people are understanding
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: how bad this really was, and the fact that he
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: can't let it go is also something that shows like
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: how much of an ego and the sociopathy is.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's impossible for women because difficult to sue a
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: powerful man because a powerful man will always be believed
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: over the woman, always, always, in every situation. Then if
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: she decides to sue him, he will sue her back
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: for defamation for millions of dollars. Then the woman gets
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: frightened because she does not have millions of dollars, and
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: she will you know. It's that's what's that's why this
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen unless you have somebody, unless you run into
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: George Conway at a party, unless you could you know,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: it's really because Donerald Trump and my friend who I
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: told almost immediately after the attack, Carol Martin, the great
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: New York's anchor woman who's an icon in New York.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Tacopina beat up on her. Bad. Don't beat up on
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Carol Martin. Don't put Carol Martin on the stand. No,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: do not do that. Do not put Carol Martin on
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: the stand. He walked in at anyway, she was a
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: woman I told almost immediately afterwards, and she said, don't
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: go to the police. He's got two hundred lawyers. He
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: will bury you. Yeah, so Tacopina of course had to
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: ask her all about that. But yeah, it's just that
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: men had lawyers. Women don't have lawyers. Unless you're Cheryl
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Shamburg or somebody. You may have a lawyer or two.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: But so it's a hard situation. It's a hard situation.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that was in the book frustrating.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: But also I think all of us we're living through
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: this right now, is that it's not a surprise. We've
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: seen this pattern of behavior with Trump. He pretty much
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: told us in the infamous Excess Hollywood tape, like what
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: kind of person he is? When I was reading your
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: book and I was like, no, I've heard about that case.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, Like I was like, oh my gosh,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: we know this about him, and it's just it wasn't
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: enough to prevent him from becoming president twice, and so
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: it can feel very disheartening. But you did win against him.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Twice, Like, that's right, that's my baby. How did it feel?
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: I know you talked about it in the book, but
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: how did that feel when you were waiting for the
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: verdicts and then after you got the.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Verdicts, Well, waiting for the verdicts, I felt sort of
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: the weight. Well, first of all, it's impossible, but I
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: feel the weight of all And I know many of
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: these are the twenty three, the twenty seven to forty
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: three women who all have said come forward. It's not
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: just me, not just the access how I would taking,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: it's all the other women who've accused him. So I
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: felt that, but the waiting, it's impossible to win a
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: sexual assault case because there's no witnesses. We happen to
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: have a lot of witnesses. Then we went out, the
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: jury left. Judge Lewis a Kaplan who should be on
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: the Sistine Chapel as God himself. One of the most
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: terrifying men I have ever seen my life. Conservative by
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: the book Break No Rules. In his courtroom, he and
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: a line of hobba, oh my god. He actually said,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: right before the jury went out, uh, bringing up missus habba,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: you are within minutes of going to lock up. Because
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: she she actually asked him, she said, your honor, I
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: don't like to be spoken to that way. To Judge
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Leuwis anyway. So when the jury goes out and you've
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: presented your case in the first one, in the first trial,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: where we worked so hard and prepared so hard, we
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: actually presented a very strong case. But Takapina is one
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: of the great attorneys in the country and very persuasive
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: with a jury, very persuisive. However, our jury was not
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: a Manhattan jury, even though you'll read it a thousand
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: million times on Twitter, they wanted New York, the Manhattan year. No,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: it was an upstate jury full of people from the
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Trump counties. Robbie tried to get one of them taken
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: off the jury because he was such a follower of
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Tim Poole as a conservative who had actually talked about
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: me several times on his podcast and wanted a liar.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I was on Robbie trying to get Judge Katherln here
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: again he follows the rule. Judge Kaplan had a private
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: interview with this jury and said, can you fairly render
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: a bridiqu in this case? And the man said yes
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: he could. Judge Caplin says he stays on the jury.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: So we really thought we were going to get a
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: hung jury. We've got Trumpers on the jury, and we
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: had exactly the kind of jury that we didn't want.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: We had six men, and they're the guys who all
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: said that she's too ugly in the mock trial, and
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: we had three women. So it was pretty terrifying. So
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: we go out at lunchtime. We're in a big, marble,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: beautiful room where we were waiting. Your voice echoes gorgeous
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: is in the Federal Court room, which is the Mother Court.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: We're in the mother Court of the United States of America,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: the first court that held session even before the Supreme Court.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: So it's really it's a historic place. And I'm a
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: wreck and I keep asking. This team of attorneys is
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: just brilliant, and I keep asking each one, when do
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: you think the jury will come back? And it was
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: obvious that they had eleven questions to answer in this trial,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: a loving question. So my team, the entire team, believed
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: that would take days. And the team was uh, not
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: only thought it would, they were certain of it because
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: my team had the team was so brilliant. We had
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: uh a clerk for just Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. We
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: had one of the clerks for Justice Kennedy. We had
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: a clerk for the Who's now clerking was so my ore.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: This is the level of the team we had. And
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: their their thing was Genie's gonna take days. Just go
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: calm down. So I went into our little witness room.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I was taking a nap and bang the door opens.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Ferd Exam, Well, can you imagine I'm nearly had a
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: heart attack? Days and days is going to take days
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: and days? I got a loving questions to answer? Are
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: they have to take days and day you And the
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: man who opened the door was the Duke of Ferra,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Mike Farra, the great Mike Fharra, who presented our case
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: so perfectly, and who wrung the jury's heart. Man, he
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: you know, just banged on them. Because Takaped kept saying,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: because I laughed, because I went to a couple of
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: parties that I couldn't have been sexually saul it. Mike
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Farra had lost his wife to cancer, and he said,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: when something bad happens in your life, just that mean
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: you can't go on with your life. You can't go
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: on and enjoy your life. You can't. You can't can't
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: go on with your career and go to work. You
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: can't go on with it. Uh what is this? What
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: is that what Joe Tacopina is saying. So his final
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: argument was it was brilliant. So he's one who opens
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: and he looks frightened to death. And when I saw
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: that the Duke of Rar looked frightened, I mean I
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: was seized with terror. So we staggered back in the
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: courtroom and Judge Katherlin said, had you chosen a leader?
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: And the woman stands up. One of the three women
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: so that was a good sign, and the verdict came in.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: It was, without a doubt, the happiest moment of my life.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: It was you could feel the people in the courtroom
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: just a sind with joy, and I understand that news
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: whipped around the world, boom boom, boom. And there was
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: an off Broadway play in production at the time and
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: in a very series seen and from what I hear,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: and a producer ran out on stage said Carol One,
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: and everything stopped and the house lights flashed on and off.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: That's what it was like in New York. Now, it
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: was it was impossible. We did it. It was incredible.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: And Robbie and I were in the car after the
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: great win, you know, making our way through the press
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: and the white balls and everything. We got in the car.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: We went through Chinatown and then up through Soho and
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: then through the village and Robbie's on her phone just
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: yacking her brains out, calling everybody she knows, getting congratulations
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: over there. And I am sitting in the other corner
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: of the car looking out and I'm thinking, Donald Trump,
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: this is your town, baby, and I just beat the
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: bat of you. So it was. It was an incredible
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: it was incredibly right.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: I love so much of this, and honestly, one of
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: the things that we were told that we need to
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: ask you about why you're fabulous. But honestly, just in
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: the first ten minutes, I kind of knew why you're fabulous,
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: just from your book.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: I absolutely know why you're fabulous. And I want to.
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: Like just bathe in your aura because it is fabulous.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, I want that to be noted.
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: But also you kind of already mentioned this earlier, and
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: I think it's important because this good closure to this
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: interview is you were awarded five million in the first
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: trial and then eighty three point three million in a second.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: But as you had eluded, this wasn't for you. It
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: was for women, It was for the victims. It was
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: for those who are survivors. Can you kind of talk
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: about with getting this money, what you're going to do
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: with it?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I love to talk about it, but it's changing
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: every day when I think, you know, when I first started,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, we'll get women's reproduction right back, that's
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: how we're going to spend the money. And now every
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: day there's some sort of tragic development with the immigrants
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: and with the arts and with everything being taken away
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: so rapidly. I just don't know what it's just going
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: to have to We're going have to see, We're going
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: to have to take a look see where it can
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: best be spent. What do you think, What do you
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: think a chunk of it goes to the lawyers? Of course,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: of course they deserve it.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's tricky all. I guess it
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: would also depend, as you're saying, we are living in
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: a very rapidly changing environments, so when you actually get it, yeah,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: and looking at where it could be best implemented. But
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: as you said, like I do love the idea of
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: giving it to things Trump hates.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: That's a very fun if he hates it. If he
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: hates it, that's what I was going to give it.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: I think definitely you got to go for like the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: queer community as well as a reproductive community, as well
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: as sexual assault survivors, Like those three are a really
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: good way because obviously those are things that he absolutely have.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: That's part of the reason he won with the immigration
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: as well, Like those are the things he went on,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: So going after things that he's trying to disassemble.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Right, I think on the cake.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly when you think that you know the numbers
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: of women who have been sexual assault in this because
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: he was so high sky high that people don't even
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: can't even begin to grasp how many people. I mean,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: because number one, the reporting is not that's not accurate.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: Oh no.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: And just recently when we were talking about DEI and
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: the fact that he's like, oh, this is all DEI.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: But the actuality is it actually hurts nonprofits like violence shelters,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: sexual assault, assault awareness stuff like those things that people
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: were like adamantly like, yes, we need to help women
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: who are in domestic violent situations, we need a god,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: but they don't care enough to say that those other
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: things that they think is happening is actually taking money
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: away from that.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: So stuff like that.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: It's definitely so I am. I'm an old lady. I
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: beat Donald Trump twice. So it makes no sense to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: me that the Ivy League universities and the big media
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: companies and the big corporations are been in the need
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: of Donald Trump because they're frightened at him, right, I
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: don't that I don't understand. So what I'm worried about
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: is if their word this is why people across the
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: land are being quiet, that aren't moving, aren't standing up,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: are raising their voices because he's got everybody bowguarded. Right,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm going back to one of the oldest things mankind.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: It's the old old idea older than actually older than mankind.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It's called signaling. When a population is being attacked or oppressed,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: there are ways for individuals to signal their support from
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: one another. Right, we don't have that signal. Mega has
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: the red hats. We don't have them. So I suggest
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: that we all take an item which can picklocks, which
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: can open handcuffs, which when straightened out, becomes a lethal weapon,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: which stands for holding things together and unity. I'm suggesting
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: we all start wearing the paper clip as a signal
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: of our support for the anti trumpers as against the president.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: I it's very simple. So I we're in this paper clip.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: We all put on a paper clip. We can see
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: our sisters and brothers who are also not liking what's
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: going on in the country. We don't have the Maga hat,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: but we have this sly, subtle, sneaky and at work.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: If you're going to get in trouble, put it on
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: your pantcup or put it on your strap, out of
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: your back. What do you think.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: I like it multifunctional, that's going to be.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Well, Samantha. I want you to start wearing it right
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: now and and when you start wearing it, because we
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: need influencers to do it, and you too, got a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: lot of influence. So if you will every day put
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: on a paper clip. You got one at Holm, you
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: probably got one there where you are and behind you.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: I know you've got a paper clip in there somewhere.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: That's the question. It's a mess back there. I'm I
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: think the paper clup. We need to recognize each other
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: and this is just subtle. You know, we got start
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: doing it. I like it, And for your listeners, clip
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: it on, babes, clip it on. You know.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I'm also really mad that Donald Trump ruined red hats.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, anybody is over.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Even if even if it doesn't say and I'm like,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: this isn't fair. He shouldn't have gotten to do this.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: You ruined the whole thing. He actually ruined the America flag,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: to be fair.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: So.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: He's not ruining the paper clip.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: That question.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: This is a big This is a big symbol from
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: the World War Two. Yeah, this is what they wore
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: to show resistance to the Nazi occupation and wore paper
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: clips sell let's do it. Yeah, I like it.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: Okay, Another thing I have to ask you, because you
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: do like? What is it about podcasts that you like?
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: Because you mentioned it before being a powerful tool? And
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: why do you have one?
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: St No, No, I'm a good guest, but I'm not
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: a host. I don't know.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: You have your whole column that was asked.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: So I think you, I think you need to do
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: a podcast.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: People ask you questions. Come on once a week, once
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: a week.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I couldn't. I couldn't.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: You know what you started at the top and you
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: were asking those questions.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: You're already there, You're already there.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: I can't know. No, I love the guests. I love
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: being a guest. I could not do it. First of all,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Almost half the questions that I answered in the twenty
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: some thirty years of writing an advice I change now.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: They just we could revisit those questions.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Not me, man, No, no, I'm out of the advice business.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: All I say now is yeah, do it?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: Hey, that might be exactly what we need. That or
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: the fabulousness are you telling us yes?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: Do this?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: Do it?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: Joy mankind do it?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Do it? That's it, that's all. Yeah, that's all we
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: need to do.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good podcast. I'm just there.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Well, let us know if you decided to do it. Yes, and.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Always, always, always, we would love to have you back.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: There's so much.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: We'd like to talk about. You guys are a gas
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: when you are a delight. Where can the good listeners
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: find you? You've got a lot going on, a lot
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: of books, a podcast, well, first of all work and
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: they find you because they can't find me unless they
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: can find you. So where are they finding you?
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: That's it. I feel like I've been a kind some
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: kind of mind trap question because if they're not listening.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: I know what's happening. I know.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: Well, listeners, you can find EJ. Carrol on a wonderful
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: episode of stuff I've Never told you, which is available
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: That's it that you can give me on the bookstore,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: not my type and on substack e Gen Girl subset. Yes,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: the world is on substack. Now are you guys on subseack?
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Not yet? What podcast?
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: Every day?
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: You literally do not have time to be on substack.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: You don't have time.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: She has two podcasts, So I know that.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: That would crazy and I don't understand it. I'm with you. Well,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: you had to be very good at it, so you
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: do what you're good at. That's so do two of them.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, yeah, you do two of them. That's good.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: So this is good. So you'll you'll you'll call me anytime,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: please if.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: You give us that invitational Billy, you want to call
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: him this month? What about this month? So don't don't
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: open it too high, because I'm gonna need to be
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: in your fabulousness.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank thank you, thank you thing. And also you
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: get a fill time you got here on here every day.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: It's more than just that, but yes, true, so much more.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: being here.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: It's been a delight, it's been amazing, it's been fabulous.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you so again.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Please go check out Eugene Carol and this book. It's
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: it's really really fantastic and her writing style is really wonderful.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: So go check it out. If you would like to
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: contact us, you can. You can email us at hello
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: at stuff iever told you dot com. You can also
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: find us on Blue Sky. I'm also a podcast or
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: We're us on YouTube and we have a new place
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: you can get merch called Cotton Bureau, so check that out,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: and we have a buck you can get where you
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Chustena,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: our executive producer and a contributor.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: Joey, thank you, and thanks to you for listening.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Stuff I Never Told You is production by Heart Radio.
• 1:10:18
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• 1:10:20
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• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows