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Fern Mallis Discusses the Fashion Industry (Podcast) · Masters in Business

0:02
Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.
0:09
Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.
0:12
Speaker 1: Her name is Fern Malice, and if you are at
0:15
Speaker 1: all interested in fashion, clothing, retail or any of the
0:23
Speaker 1: things related to that, uh, you'll find this conversation especially interesting.
0:29
Speaker 1: I wish I would have had more time. I wanted
0:31
Speaker 1: to ask her about some of the changes in the industry, etcetera, etcetera.
0:36
Speaker 1: But I think you'll find this to be really an
0:39
Speaker 1: interesting and fascinating conversation. So, with no further ado, my
0:44
Speaker 1: interview with Fern Malice. My special guest today is Fern Malice.
0:53
Speaker 1: She is the president of fashion and design consultancy Fern
0:58
Speaker 1: Malice LLC. Previously, she was the executive director of the
1:02
Speaker 1: Council of Fashion Designers of America, where she has been
1:06
Speaker 1: awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award, as well as other such
1:10
Speaker 1: awards from Pratt Institute and the Fashion Institute of Technology
1:14
Speaker 1: better known as f i T. She is the creator
1:18
Speaker 1: of Fashion Week in New York. Fern Malice, Welcome to Bloomberg.
1:23
Speaker 1: Thank you, Barry. I'm happy to be here. So let's
1:25
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your background in fashion. Is
1:29
Speaker 1: this an area you were always interested in and how
1:32
Speaker 1: did you break into the field. Yes, I guess you
1:36
Speaker 1: could say I was always interested in it. I grew
1:38
Speaker 1: up in Brooklyn. My dad worked in the government center
1:42
Speaker 1: and his brothers worked there as well. My dad was
1:45
Speaker 1: in accessories scarves primarily, and the uncles were in textiles
1:51
Speaker 1: and in sportswear. Family business. I grew up in going,
1:56
Speaker 1: going with him to work every time I could, every
1:58
Speaker 1: day off from school to the garment district when it
2:02
Speaker 1: was a bustling, hustling place, all those carts on the street,
2:06
Speaker 1: and all those people who knew each other, and and
2:08
Speaker 1: I learned, and I watched, and I loved it, and
2:11
Speaker 1: I loved clothing. So what was your first job we
2:14
Speaker 1: were working not for a family member. Well, I never
2:18
Speaker 1: worked for a family member, Luckily, I just grew up
2:21
Speaker 1: surrounded by them and learned about the industry, apprentice assimilating um.
2:26
Speaker 1: But my early jobs in high school, my summer jobs
2:29
Speaker 1: were at Simplicity Patterns, which was a big deal at
2:33
Speaker 1: that time when people used to make their own clothes,
2:36
Speaker 1: and and a department store. Do you ever remember the
2:38
Speaker 1: name or backs thirty fourth Street that I worked in
2:42
Speaker 1: our backs one summer. I kind of remember one read
2:44
Speaker 1: off a root for in New Jersey. Oh, you know
2:46
Speaker 1: they eventually they did expand and then they you know,
2:50
Speaker 1: shut down like everything else. Um, but those were my
2:54
Speaker 1: first jobs in school. I was in school. But then
2:57
Speaker 1: my first real job was at Mademoiselle magazine at Conde Nast.
3:01
Speaker 1: So what did you do for Mademoiselle? Um? Well, I
3:04
Speaker 1: actually that's how my career really started. I want to contest.
3:08
Speaker 1: I was a Mademoiselle guest editor, which was a very
3:11
Speaker 1: big deal when I was growing up. They picked twenty
3:14
Speaker 1: students from around the country to guest edit their college
3:18
Speaker 1: issue come to New York for a month. Today it
3:21
Speaker 1: would be a reality TV show with twenty girls out
3:24
Speaker 1: to kill each other in some apartment to get the
3:27
Speaker 1: job or the boyfriend. And it was an extraordinary experience.
3:31
Speaker 1: Sylvia Plath was a guest editor Ally McGraw bet C.
3:34
Speaker 1: Johnson before me and before they were famous, but well
3:40
Speaker 1: before they when they were in college getting getting the
3:43
Speaker 1: junior senior year of college and I was at the
3:47
Speaker 1: University of Buffalo. Came back and did my my guest editorship,
3:52
Speaker 1: and then I was the only one of my twenty
3:54
Speaker 1: in that group that was asked to stay on at
3:55
Speaker 1: the magazine with a full time job. So what did
3:57
Speaker 1: you do with the magazine going forward? After After that forward,
4:00
Speaker 1: I was in the college competitions area and then merchandising
4:03
Speaker 1: and marketing UM. But in the college camp area, it
4:07
Speaker 1: was very interesting because we're talking I graduated in sixty nine,
4:13
Speaker 1: being revealing my age here people do the math, but
4:17
Speaker 1: it was when the world was coming apart. It was
4:20
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. It was craziness. And so going to college
4:24
Speaker 1: campuses to talk about a fashion magazine, and Mademoiselle was
4:28
Speaker 1: more than a fashion magazine. It was really the thinking
4:30
Speaker 1: woman's magazine. At its time, it was one of the
4:33
Speaker 1: best books in the Counting Nest stable. So you started
4:36
Speaker 1: postfringe but pre polyester. Is that affair? Yeah, you could
4:40
Speaker 1: say that, you know, and and it was a great experience.
4:43
Speaker 1: And then when I moved into the merchandising area, I
4:46
Speaker 1: in my twenties was traveling to every single state in
4:50
Speaker 1: the country, going to department stores when they all had
4:54
Speaker 1: regional names and identities before they were all bought by Macy's,
4:58
Speaker 1: and doing story events, bringing the magazine to life. It
5:01
Speaker 1: was a great experience. So how did you go from
5:04
Speaker 1: working for a magazine to setting up your own consultancy?
5:08
Speaker 1: What was in between that? There were several things in
5:10
Speaker 1: between that, including working for Gimbals East as fashion director
5:14
Speaker 1: on the Uptown store when that was there. Um, I
5:17
Speaker 1: worked on Seventh Avenue for a short time. I hated
5:20
Speaker 1: that side of the business. Um, why what was what
5:23
Speaker 1: was the problem? You know? I like it was the
5:26
Speaker 1: nitty gritty mathiastically like selling. I liked being the one
5:30
Speaker 1: people wanted to come to. It just wasn't the right
5:33
Speaker 1: fit for me. Um. But eventually I opened up a
5:36
Speaker 1: PR firm um And I basically did that because I
5:40
Speaker 1: thought I had nine full one one on my forehead.
5:43
Speaker 1: Everybody would call me for where do I get this?
5:45
Speaker 1: How do I get that? Can you connect me with this?
5:47
Speaker 1: Can you? I was like one of my central booking
5:50
Speaker 1: information here, and I realized I could get paid for
5:53
Speaker 1: that information. So I opened up a PR firm in
5:56
Speaker 1: my friends offices who are architects and interior designers, and
6:00
Speaker 1: at the time two place it contextually they were designing
6:03
Speaker 1: Studio fifty four. So that was a fun, heady time
6:07
Speaker 1: to be around them. And this is mid to late
6:11
Speaker 1: seventies now, Yes, and we I had a PR firm
6:15
Speaker 1: and I started representing. The first one was a fashion
6:18
Speaker 1: client was Shri, a Varry store that was very famous
6:21
Speaker 1: on the West Side, Selma Wiser and a few other
6:24
Speaker 1: fashion friends. And then it shifted to architecture and interior
6:28
Speaker 1: design and representing all the major furniture companies and textile
6:33
Speaker 1: companies because I love that world. I love the whole
6:36
Speaker 1: design world, how it all connects and lifestyle. And I
6:41
Speaker 1: then ran left that to join one of my clients,
6:44
Speaker 1: which was the I d C m Y International Design Center,
6:47
Speaker 1: New York in Long Island City, was right over the bridge.
6:50
Speaker 1: It was an extraordinary project building a million square feet
6:55
Speaker 1: of showrooms for the interior furnishings industry. And we helped
6:59
Speaker 1: bill that and I was very much involved in that,
7:02
Speaker 1: working with I AM Paying Partners and Coffee Seagull and
7:06
Speaker 1: UM I AM and the Vanielli's who did the graphics.
7:09
Speaker 1: It was a wonderful time in my life. I d
7:12
Speaker 1: C opened a building in New York. Now, didn't they
7:16
Speaker 1: know they's either the decorator and design. Yes, there were
7:21
Speaker 1: several design buildings in new but it's not I I
7:25
Speaker 1: d C was competition to all those buildings in Long
7:28
Speaker 1: Island City, and people were very nervous that everybody was
7:31
Speaker 1: going to go over the bridge. It didn't work out,
7:36
Speaker 1: you know, going over the bridge in New York if
7:38
Speaker 1: you're if you're not going to the airport or going home,
7:42
Speaker 1: you don't cross the water. I mean in Chicago, Paris,
7:45
Speaker 1: everywhere else. You cross the water all day long with Chicago.
7:49
Speaker 1: But New York it didn't work, and we had they
7:52
Speaker 1: were closing lanes of the bridge all the time. They
7:55
Speaker 1: really screwed it up big time. It was all time
8:00
Speaker 1: million dollar complex and it still is one of the
8:03
Speaker 1: most extraordinary set of buildings that old factories that were
8:06
Speaker 1: retrofitted to design showrooms. The best architects in the world
8:10
Speaker 1: designed them all. And now that whole area is hot
8:12
Speaker 1: as a pistol. That was Premazon. Now if I wish
8:16
Speaker 1: when I was there that I bought property Among Island
8:19
Speaker 1: City for Amazon. They were building Huge was the first
8:24
Speaker 1: building that you know, we thought, okay, when the rest
8:28
Speaker 1: of this going to happen, But it took a long
8:30
Speaker 1: long time. By the way, you mentioned um department stores
8:33
Speaker 1: that are no longer with us. Let's test your memory.
8:36
Speaker 1: We're sitting standing in a building. We're sitting in a
8:37
Speaker 1: building Alexander's, alexand that's exactly right by the way. Alexander's
8:42
Speaker 1: is the store I was thinking of on Route for
8:44
Speaker 1: that had the giant was it a calleder? It was
8:47
Speaker 1: a giant piece of artwork on the outside of the building.
8:52
Speaker 1: On Route four. I want to say, just passed Hackensack,
8:56
Speaker 1: But I was a kid with I don't go root
8:57
Speaker 1: for right bridge and tunnels. You never leave Manhattan unless
9:01
Speaker 1: you go into the Hamptons. That's the not to or
9:04
Speaker 1: or an airport. So let's talk about before Fashion Week.
9:09
Speaker 1: What was the state of the fashion industry before this
9:14
Speaker 1: event existed, well before Fashion Week was formally created and organized,
9:21
Speaker 1: centralized and modernized, which is what I like to say,
9:24
Speaker 1: Um we did. There were fashion shows. I mean, the
9:28
Speaker 1: industry had its bi annual timetable to get its collections
9:33
Speaker 1: out in front of buyers. But it was a very
9:36
Speaker 1: very exclusive, insider event. If you weren't in the industry,
9:41
Speaker 1: you didn't know about it. If you went by a
9:42
Speaker 1: building on Seventh Avenue, you might think what's going on?
9:45
Speaker 1: If there's a line outside getting in or something. If
9:48
Speaker 1: they were fifty shows, they were in fifty different locations
9:51
Speaker 1: and nobody talked to each other. It was uptown, downtown, midtown.
9:56
Speaker 1: You know, if somebody had a show in the Pierre
9:59
Speaker 1: Hotel and morning, they'd have to take everything down in
10:02
Speaker 1: the afternoon because somebody had a our mits for there
10:04
Speaker 1: that night, and then somebody wanted to rent it again
10:07
Speaker 1: the next day, you'd put it all back in there.
10:10
Speaker 1: It was a bit chaotic. Um sounds complicated and expensive,
10:14
Speaker 1: and it was complicated, expensive, and it was. It was
10:17
Speaker 1: at a time when the American designers weren't really well
10:22
Speaker 1: known and reaching out to Europe. The biggest European expansion
10:27
Speaker 1: was Calvin Klein maybe doing Fragrance. And so I'm glad
10:31
Speaker 1: you brought that up because I'm now my perspective on
10:35
Speaker 1: this is colored by pop culture and movies like the
10:40
Speaker 1: Devil Wears product. But you very much get the sense
10:44
Speaker 1: that both Paris and Milan were much more structured and
10:48
Speaker 1: organized or is that just you know, that's the truth.
10:51
Speaker 1: Paris and Milan were the that that's where it was,
10:54
Speaker 1: that that's what it was about. London a little bit
10:57
Speaker 1: New York was somewhat of an afterthought. York was treated
11:00
Speaker 1: as their last on the calendar. They're waiting to see
11:04
Speaker 1: what we do in Europe and they're gonna copy us,
11:05
Speaker 1: and it was it was crazy. So I had just
11:09
Speaker 1: been hired. This is back in ninety one. I was
11:12
Speaker 1: selected as the executive director of the c f d
11:15
Speaker 1: A after they did a very long search, after I
11:18
Speaker 1: left the design universe of I, D C and Y
11:20
Speaker 1: and all of that, And there was this little organization,
11:24
Speaker 1: the c FDA, which had done a big AIDS benefit
11:26
Speaker 1: called seventh on six, seventh on Sale, and that's when
11:30
Speaker 1: I got involved with them and I was hired as
11:34
Speaker 1: their executive director. It was March of one, and I
11:39
Speaker 1: believe that I remember exactly. I was hired at the
11:43
Speaker 1: end of March. I didn't start till mid April. There
11:45
Speaker 1: was a market Week Fashion week in between. Michael Cores
11:49
Speaker 1: had a show in an empty loft space and Chelsea
11:52
Speaker 1: And when you turn the base music on in a
11:55
Speaker 1: space for a fashion show, that's very loud, and if
11:58
Speaker 1: things aren't nailed down, they tend to tremble. Well, the
12:00
Speaker 1: ceiling trembled and plasters started falling off from the ceiling.
12:05
Speaker 1: And the ceiling literally was falling down on the runway.
12:08
Speaker 1: He brought the roof down. Well, there you go. He
12:10
Speaker 1: brought the roof down, and plaster was on the shoulders
12:14
Speaker 1: of Naomi and Cindy and Linda and all the one
12:16
Speaker 1: named supermodels of the day. But when but they kept walking?
12:21
Speaker 1: But when it landed in the lapse of Susie Mankis
12:24
Speaker 1: from the International Herald Tribune carried Donovan, the fashion critic
12:27
Speaker 1: at the New York Times. They wrote the next day,
12:29
Speaker 1: we live for fashion, we don't want to die for it.
12:32
Speaker 1: And I looked at all that and I said, I
12:36
Speaker 1: think my job description just changed and it beat My
12:39
Speaker 1: job then started immediately when I got there, to figure
12:43
Speaker 1: out a way to do safe sound places for the
12:45
Speaker 1: American designers to do their runway shows. So the concept was,
12:49
Speaker 1: let's get all this together in one place, one location,
12:53
Speaker 1: one week, make it safe, make it accessible, make it
12:56
Speaker 1: more reasonable and more efficient, amortized the costs for everybody.
13:01
Speaker 1: And so how did you end up finding a way
13:03
Speaker 1: to Bryant Park, which, if we're talking one Brian Park
13:07
Speaker 1: was still a little city, but it was on It
13:12
Speaker 1: was in the last throes of its renovation. At the restaurant,
13:16
Speaker 1: wasn't there right? For people who are not familiar with this,
13:19
Speaker 1: Brian Park is basically the full city block behind the
13:24
Speaker 1: New York Public Library. In the sixties seventies, eighties, it
13:28
Speaker 1: was very much haven for drugs and right Needle Park
13:33
Speaker 1: and um, when I used to visit my dad's office
13:35
Speaker 1: on Madison Avenue, we would say, if you're come in
13:38
Speaker 1: by train, don't go up. And now my office on
13:42
Speaker 1: which is pretty it's one of the most beautiful urban
13:44
Speaker 1: renovation ever. A jewel of the city. It is. It
13:48
Speaker 1: is a very very special place. And the lawn there
13:51
Speaker 1: was it was like the backyard to the garment center.
13:54
Speaker 1: Because it was a block away from Seventh Avenue Broadway,
13:57
Speaker 1: where all the showrooms were. It was walking to everything.
14:00
Speaker 1: There's lots of public transportation and subways. Block away from
14:05
Speaker 1: Times Square, two blocks from Grand Central. I mean, you
14:08
Speaker 1: don't get a better location than Brian Park. It's pretty
14:11
Speaker 1: much smack dab in the center of the city. You
14:14
Speaker 1: can get to it from anywhere easily. Yeah, and so
14:17
Speaker 1: we we began. My job became find a place. So
14:22
Speaker 1: I was riding around New York. I look at every
14:24
Speaker 1: empty pier, every big parking lot. Can we put tents
14:28
Speaker 1: up here? How big can we do this? Um San Herman,
14:31
Speaker 1: who was the president of the CFD eight office, is
14:34
Speaker 1: actually on the corner of and sixth overlooking Brian Park
14:38
Speaker 1: and he was on the board of the community board
14:41
Speaker 1: there and work closely with Dan Biederman, who I know
14:44
Speaker 1: you've interviewed her the big and we wound up eventually
14:51
Speaker 1: making a deal with with Dan and with Brian Park.
14:54
Speaker 1: It was literally the backyard to the to the industry.
14:57
Speaker 1: People loved it there and I used to for again
15:00
Speaker 1: for people who may not have actually seen this, and
15:03
Speaker 1: you could find time lapse photography about it. The part
15:07
Speaker 1: goes from this big open space that's I don't know,
15:10
Speaker 1: let's call it half a city block, and that's the
15:12
Speaker 1: lawn and suddenly a giant set of tents go up
15:16
Speaker 1: and a little city. Now what they do is in
15:19
Speaker 1: the winter there's a ice skating rink and a lodge
15:24
Speaker 1: that's temporary right well that they disappeared January, so they're
15:29
Speaker 1: gone already, but you still have urban space there and
15:33
Speaker 1: you still have the ice skating rink. But if you
15:35
Speaker 1: watched Fashion Week show up, it was an amazing bit
15:40
Speaker 1: of logistics to build it and then you could go
15:43
Speaker 1: see the video and you don't really you it's hard
15:46
Speaker 1: to imagine that this is a temporary space. When you
15:49
Speaker 1: see images from the fashion show, it always looks amazing.
15:53
Speaker 1: So how what was it like setting up that first one?
15:57
Speaker 1: It was pretty extraordinary. Uh. I mean we had started
16:01
Speaker 1: first at the MACLo Hotel, which was the then became
16:04
Speaker 1: the Millennial Hotel, just to see if we can get
16:06
Speaker 1: more than three designers to do something together, because their
16:10
Speaker 1: egos is such that nobody wants to do anything in
16:12
Speaker 1: the same space. But they really genuine problem a problem
16:16
Speaker 1: at the beginning was first, is there jockeying for absolutely,
16:22
Speaker 1: it's it's the war room with the with the slots
16:25
Speaker 1: and moving the post. It's around until you got his
16:27
Speaker 1: calendar that work. That's the wedding where all sorts of
16:31
Speaker 1: crazy stuff and you had to deal with that only
16:33
Speaker 1: with much bigger egos. Yeah, you could say that, but
16:38
Speaker 1: but they understood at the beginning that this was gonna
16:41
Speaker 1: If this is gonna work, we all have to do
16:43
Speaker 1: it together. So the first seasons we did have Calvin
16:46
Speaker 1: Klein in the tents and Donna Karen and Ralph Lauren
16:49
Speaker 1: Um who Eventually those designers moved out to do their
16:52
Speaker 1: own thing, which was fine, but it helped get this
16:56
Speaker 1: off the ground. We invited all the European press and
16:58
Speaker 1: buyers to come and it changed the world and it
17:03
Speaker 1: changed the fashion industry. How long did it take before
17:06
Speaker 1: you realized, hey, we have something here. Oh, it didn't
17:08
Speaker 1: take long at all. It happened very quickly, and I'm
17:14
Speaker 1: extremely proud of what that meant to these people into
17:18
Speaker 1: the industry, into our city and our culture. But that
17:21
Speaker 1: first season, that first sound check, when the music really
17:25
Speaker 1: went blasting, you know, goose bumps all over, you know,
17:29
Speaker 1: you just couldn't believe it was really happening. We did
17:32
Speaker 1: a ribbon cutting with Dincin and Mayor Dincon's wife. Let's
17:36
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the business of fashion, because,
17:39
Speaker 1: after all, um, it is a business whose purpose is
17:43
Speaker 1: to sell products to consumers. How do you look at
17:47
Speaker 1: the world of fast fashion. After there's a show in
17:50
Speaker 1: Paris and Milan, it seems two weeks later they're cheap
17:54
Speaker 1: knockoffs from China hanging on the racks in the US.
17:58
Speaker 1: Is this a good thing? Is this a thing? How
18:00
Speaker 1: do we how do we think about this, well, it
18:02
Speaker 1: depends on who you are. If you're a consumer who
18:04
Speaker 1: wants to buy something really fast and of the moment,
18:08
Speaker 1: and that's really inexpensive, it's a great thing. If you're
18:12
Speaker 1: a designer and you know a company with integrity, who
18:18
Speaker 1: plays by the rules of time and place and making
18:21
Speaker 1: something and putting out a quality product, it's not such
18:23
Speaker 1: a good thing. If you're into sustainable fashion in the industry,
18:28
Speaker 1: it's not such a good thing because there's a ton
18:30
Speaker 1: of stuff that's being made that is filling landfills, um.
18:35
Speaker 1: You know, there's there are a lot of problems. But
18:37
Speaker 1: fast fashion has woken up a lot of people. I
18:40
Speaker 1: mean the H and m s of the world and
18:41
Speaker 1: top Shop and Sarah's and what have you. Um, But
18:45
Speaker 1: the customer who's buying that is not the customer who's
18:48
Speaker 1: buying really designer clothes. People know the difference. The luxury
18:52
Speaker 1: business right now is doing very well. The LVMH is
18:56
Speaker 1: the um. Louis utan Chanel I never really thought of
19:00
Speaker 1: fast fashion as a threat to the either aspirational luxury
19:06
Speaker 1: or full own luxury. But I do look at e
19:09
Speaker 1: commerce and everything being online, as well as things like
19:14
Speaker 1: rent the Runway and predd up porter as potentially satisfying
19:18
Speaker 1: some of the demand for those products. How does the
19:20
Speaker 1: industry look at either e commerce or high end pre
19:25
Speaker 1: owned or even rentable um fashion. I think those are
19:30
Speaker 1: all the different aspects of the industry that have evolved
19:32
Speaker 1: over the years. UM. I think you know, rent the
19:35
Speaker 1: runway is a brilliant business. Jennifer Hyman started. I worked
19:39
Speaker 1: with her at IMG we were there at the same time. UM,
19:43
Speaker 1: it's quite remarkable read the rental business period is becoming
19:47
Speaker 1: a big, big business because people it's also sustainable. Also,
19:52
Speaker 1: you don't need to buy this stuff, you don't need
19:54
Speaker 1: to own it in your closet. UM. All of that
19:57
Speaker 1: is great, but e commerce is very much a part
19:59
Speaker 1: of everybody's business. The highest end luxury people that everybody's
20:04
Speaker 1: available on e commerce one way or another, whether it's
20:08
Speaker 1: their own site or their part of Matches Fashion or
20:12
Speaker 1: Netta Porte or uh some of the very big UM conglomerates.
20:17
Speaker 1: You know, UM, what's the word I'm thinking of? Who
20:20
Speaker 1: you know? Who put all the different looks together? Far fetched?
20:22
Speaker 1: Who has all the different stores on it? I mean
20:26
Speaker 1: the e commerce, the online business is enormous. This holiday season,
20:30
Speaker 1: it was huge. And what that is hurting more than
20:34
Speaker 1: anything is the retail experience. Um. So it's forcing stores again,
20:42
Speaker 1: at least smart stores, to rethink what they're doing and
20:44
Speaker 1: to create an experience to make shopping matter again. UM.
20:49
Speaker 1: I mean it's very sad. And you walk around New
20:52
Speaker 1: York and you see all the Forends signs. You know,
20:55
Speaker 1: Lord and Taylor is just closed down. Um just the headquarters.
20:59
Speaker 1: Now what a New York store, Yes, but but that
21:01
Speaker 1: still was an iconic New York store. Um. The Versace
21:06
Speaker 1: stores closing on Fifth Avenue. Um, there's all sorts of
21:11
Speaker 1: stores going out everywhere. The Gap store is closing on
21:13
Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue. Um. But retailers are looking at creating experiences again.
21:19
Speaker 1: I know, Sex of the avenues going under major renovation.
21:23
Speaker 1: They've moved you know, accessories up and pan bags down,
21:27
Speaker 1: and cosmetics had another set up to another floor. They've
21:30
Speaker 1: just bringing in a very fancy restaurant from France the avenue.
21:34
Speaker 1: They're trying to create reasons for people to come back
21:36
Speaker 1: into the stores, and I think that's a good thing.
21:39
Speaker 1: And e commerce companies like Rent the Runway have begun
21:44
Speaker 1: to open retail outposts. So there's still there's still people
21:48
Speaker 1: like going to a place and seeing it, trying it
21:51
Speaker 1: on and having that experience. I previously had a conversation
21:56
Speaker 1: with Barbara kan who's a professor at Wharton, and she
22:00
Speaker 1: was telling us about some of the new technology that's
22:04
Speaker 1: come in where you know, when you shop at Amazon,
22:08
Speaker 1: they have this huge informational advantage. If you click this,
22:11
Speaker 1: we we could tell you what everybody else looked at.
22:14
Speaker 1: These are the three most popular ingredients of or objects
22:18
Speaker 1: or items, not ingredients, These are the three most popular
22:23
Speaker 1: items for other people who bought this. What Professor Kam
22:27
Speaker 1: was saying is you could they're using RF radio tags
22:31
Speaker 1: and a smart mirror, and when you bring an item
22:34
Speaker 1: in certain stores into the dressing room, the mirror will
22:38
Speaker 1: act very similar to the way Amazon did, and said
22:42
Speaker 1: people who looked at this item also looked at this belt,
22:47
Speaker 1: the scarf, the successory, and not only are they getting
22:51
Speaker 1: a higher percentage of sales, but they're also getting a
22:55
Speaker 1: higher percentage of anons and other things, Which is a
22:58
Speaker 1: long winded way of a sking what is the role
23:02
Speaker 1: of technology in fashion. It's a huge part of the
23:08
Speaker 1: fashion industry. It's a huge part of every industry. I mean,
23:11
Speaker 1: technology has changed the way we do everything. It's a
23:15
Speaker 1: little bit of big brother watching you in a way,
23:17
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit scary some day. Some days,
23:20
Speaker 1: you know, if you just look at something online, the
23:23
Speaker 1: next time you open up your computer, tensites jump in
23:26
Speaker 1: your face, like are you looking for a tote bag?
23:29
Speaker 1: You know here? Whatever, it's I it's invasive. It's as
23:34
Speaker 1: it is scary. That's a generational thing you and I
23:37
Speaker 1: hate that. Younger folks they could care less about it. PS.
23:41
Speaker 1: I've discovered that if I log out of Facebook while
23:46
Speaker 1: I'm online, that sort of stuff happens much less because
23:50
Speaker 1: Facebook tracks everything you do on Facebook off Facebook, and
23:53
Speaker 1: they're the ones who are serving you a lot of
23:55
Speaker 1: that stuff, just making I guess I should be happy
23:58
Speaker 1: that I've been I've been act on Facebook like six
24:01
Speaker 1: seven months ago, and I can't. I can't get back
24:04
Speaker 1: on no matter what. I've tried everything, connecting with everybody
24:08
Speaker 1: under the sun, and I have to two pages, you know,
24:12
Speaker 1: a verified one and a personal one, both of them
24:17
Speaker 1: I can. I cannot log on to Facebook. I get
24:20
Speaker 1: messages all day long from people on emails. So and
24:23
Speaker 1: so commented, I said, I can't see any of it.
24:26
Speaker 1: So if anybody's listening from Facebook, come on, please tell
24:30
Speaker 1: me how to get You're losing a good, good customer here.
24:34
Speaker 1: I'd like to be back on. Well, we'll forward this
24:37
Speaker 1: to someone there and make sure they if it was Twitter,
24:40
Speaker 1: I could help you. I have no contact that U
24:43
Speaker 1: Actually that's not true. I do have contacts on Facebook,
24:45
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I can help you with it. Um.
24:48
Speaker 1: After I slag them constantly about being such a we'll
24:52
Speaker 1: say something nice. Um. So let's let's we talked about
24:56
Speaker 1: e commerce. This raises a really interesting question. Is fashion
25:02
Speaker 1: and clothing the sort of thing that people are always
25:06
Speaker 1: going to go into a store for? Or can you
25:09
Speaker 1: have Will we eventually get to the point where the
25:12
Speaker 1: stores become virtual and people don't have to go physically shopping. Now,
25:17
Speaker 1: that will never happen. That's your forecast that they're the
25:24
Speaker 1: smart ones will adapt and and change and evolve as
25:28
Speaker 1: any smart business. But I think you still want to
25:32
Speaker 1: go and see and touch and feel, and if you
25:35
Speaker 1: can make the experiences unique and service be an important
25:41
Speaker 1: part of it. I mean, I'm a little nervous in
25:43
Speaker 1: New York in a few months. There's a new name,
25:45
Speaker 1: and Marcus is going to open up in the city
25:48
Speaker 1: and the Nordstrom's in this year. I mean, those are
25:51
Speaker 1: two serious department stores opening in New York City in
25:55
Speaker 1: a time when people are just nervous about shop being
26:00
Speaker 1: and going to stories. Are we saturated with big department
26:03
Speaker 1: stores in New York City? No, I don't think we
26:06
Speaker 1: are at all. That's why I think this is gonna
26:08
Speaker 1: be interesting having the two of them open. But it's
26:11
Speaker 1: going to be interesting. That's I don't want to pass
26:14
Speaker 1: judge and I don't want to predict. We'll see. Nordstrom's
26:18
Speaker 1: is new to New York this. I mean there's a
26:20
Speaker 1: men's store that opened first, but that's has a very
26:24
Speaker 1: different culture. And even Marcus is going to open in
26:28
Speaker 1: Hudson Yards, you know, and that's going to be interesting.
26:31
Speaker 1: It's not a place with a lot of foot traffic yet,
26:34
Speaker 1: not yet anyway to be a destination, although there's certainly
26:37
Speaker 1: between the high Line and everything else that's over there,
26:39
Speaker 1: there's certainly a ton of tourist traction making its way
26:44
Speaker 1: near the Hudson Yards. It's really not all that far
26:46
Speaker 1: away from that um you mentioned, um Nordstrom I know
26:50
Speaker 1: Nordstrom in Suburbia from Nordstrom Rack. How do you Although
26:55
Speaker 1: that's not true because I've gone to the north Stroom
26:57
Speaker 1: that is in UH at Roosevelt Field. I don't go
27:01
Speaker 1: to malls, so I don't remember, but I've been in
27:04
Speaker 1: Nordstrom's and Nordstrom Rack, which raises the question, what do
27:09
Speaker 1: you think about this sort of outlet center shopping that
27:13
Speaker 1: has blown up over the past I don't know, twenty years.
27:16
Speaker 1: For a while, I think this still happens in New York.
27:20
Speaker 1: The tourists would get on a bus and drive an
27:23
Speaker 1: hour and a half north to go to the giant
27:26
Speaker 1: outlets center that's up in just north of White Plains,
27:29
Speaker 1: And it took me a while to access that. But um,
27:34
Speaker 1: I literally bus loads of people go up there to
27:37
Speaker 1: go shopping. Is that a viable business? Is it the
27:40
Speaker 1: same clothes that you see in the main stores? What?
27:43
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about? It's definitely a viable business.
27:46
Speaker 1: And Woodburry Commons is quite phenomenal. I mean the amount
27:49
Speaker 1: of stores they have and they create those shopping um
27:53
Speaker 1: destination um to replicate the headquarters stores, so it's not
27:59
Speaker 1: just a bunch of rack closed somewhere. You know, you
28:01
Speaker 1: feel like you're in a berbery, you feel like you're
28:03
Speaker 1: in a in a you know, Barneys or whatever is
28:06
Speaker 1: up there. But it's not the same merchandise that you
28:10
Speaker 1: can find in the current lines. It's it's generally past
28:13
Speaker 1: season or it's um and in many cases there's separate
28:17
Speaker 1: business companies make stuff for that lit stores, they make
28:21
Speaker 1: other lines that you can't even buy anywhere else that
28:23
Speaker 1: they're a lower price. UM. I don't think those customers
28:28
Speaker 1: getting on the buses at you know, um the big
28:30
Speaker 1: hotels in the city, at the what's the bus m
28:34
Speaker 1: what's across the streets from the Times, what's called the
28:36
Speaker 1: bus terminal Port Authority, thank you. Um. They are bus
28:42
Speaker 1: loads of people, like you say, tourists and a lot
28:45
Speaker 1: of Asians. UM, fill up those buses and go there.
28:49
Speaker 1: They mark, they market to people. So tours come here
28:53
Speaker 1: from China and Japan and elsewhere, and part of the
28:56
Speaker 1: week or two they spend in the United States eights
29:00
Speaker 1: is a bus pulls up in from the hotel as
29:03
Speaker 1: part of their vacation and they go up to the
29:05
Speaker 1: Woodbury Outlets centers. That's what my understanding is. I was
29:10
Speaker 1: up there years and years ago. In fact, to do
29:12
Speaker 1: a radio show for w R with John Hamburg years ago.
29:16
Speaker 1: We did it from Woodbury Commons and it always intrigues
29:20
Speaker 1: me that I should go there. But I got across
29:24
Speaker 1: the bridge, got across the water, and we know you
29:26
Speaker 1: won't do that airports and in the Hampton's we got that.
29:30
Speaker 1: Um So let's talk a little bit about the power
29:32
Speaker 1: of brands. How important are brands, whether it's a designer,
29:37
Speaker 1: a manufacturer or retailer. Do brands still carry the same
29:43
Speaker 1: cachet and power that they used to? Well, that depends
29:47
Speaker 1: on the brand, you know. I mean the sneak the
29:51
Speaker 1: biggest thing in the world now, sneakers you know, from
29:53
Speaker 1: whether it's Nike, Adidas, whomever. Um, I notice you're wearing
29:58
Speaker 1: a pair of Yeasys. I am not wearing. Get out
30:02
Speaker 1: of here when you have nothing else to do, Google furnace,
30:07
Speaker 1: Kanye West. Trust me. That's why I've brought that up.
30:10
Speaker 1: I know you guys have had a falling out and
30:12
Speaker 1: a reconciliation and we just had a little bruhaha, no no, no, no,
30:20
Speaker 1: squirremat and I purposely did not wear I'm a sneaker head.
30:24
Speaker 1: And I purposely did not wear anything today. Yeah, these
30:31
Speaker 1: are royal birds, they're wool. They're kind of funky online things.
30:35
Speaker 1: But um, but brands. But brands matter to some people.
30:38
Speaker 1: Some people are very brand conscious. I mean, you know
30:41
Speaker 1: the phenomena of Supreme having a name on something in
30:44
Speaker 1: a line outside that store. But you know what seems
30:48
Speaker 1: to be resonating more with people now are brands and
30:51
Speaker 1: companies that stand for something and give back and have
30:55
Speaker 1: a moral purpose for existing. People are really looking for
30:59
Speaker 1: some hatchment to a company and why they're doing certain
31:02
Speaker 1: things like when Nike did took their stand with Kaepernick.
31:06
Speaker 1: Colin Kaepernick, can I push back on you? And then
31:09
Speaker 1: we'll talk about Gillette. So think about the people who
31:13
Speaker 1: were pro and con Colin Kaepernack. The people who were
31:16
Speaker 1: all up in arms over them taking a knee, their
31:20
Speaker 1: red state folks. They're lower disposal income folks. They're older.
31:24
Speaker 1: That's not Nike's core demographic. Nike's core demographic or young hip.
31:30
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the number was their sales once
31:34
Speaker 1: people under thirty five. The business went through the roof
31:37
Speaker 1: after it was a genius. It was the best marketing
31:40
Speaker 1: um moment of it was totally. It was just it
31:44
Speaker 1: was it was emotional. It was the right thing to do,
31:47
Speaker 1: you know, and that's what resonates with a brand when
31:50
Speaker 1: they do that, that's when you really want to support
31:53
Speaker 1: a company. So now we're recording this the day after
31:58
Speaker 1: Nike did their big release about their UH sneakers that
32:02
Speaker 1: lace up automatically for three hundred and sixty dollars. I
32:06
Speaker 1: haven't seen them yet, but it was all over the
32:08
Speaker 1: press yesterday wired Verge. So you get your automatic laceup
32:13
Speaker 1: sneakers and go in your driverless car, right, So, you
32:16
Speaker 1: have a button over here you can loosen it or
32:18
Speaker 1: tighten it. And there's also what makes it so interesting
32:21
Speaker 1: is it comes with an app for your phone that
32:24
Speaker 1: tracks your activity, your calories, burn your miles, all that stuff.
32:28
Speaker 1: So it's a smart sneaker, not just a self lacing sneaker.
32:32
Speaker 1: And if you're engaging in sports. This wasn't supposed to
32:35
Speaker 1: be an ad for Nike, but um, I'll speak to
32:40
Speaker 1: Phil Night whenever he wants. When you move and play
32:43
Speaker 1: a sport, the sneaker actually adapts to what you're doing
32:47
Speaker 1: to provide better support. And you know the technology, Well,
32:52
Speaker 1: think about the first time you tried on a dry
32:55
Speaker 1: fit shirt where they wis the water away? If you're
32:59
Speaker 1: you may mentioned Dinkins playing tennis, if you've ever played
33:02
Speaker 1: a sport where you're just drenched and your close stick
33:05
Speaker 1: to you and the technology is brilliant and it really
33:09
Speaker 1: is just fascinating. So back to brands, Brands that are
33:13
Speaker 1: innovative and pushing the envelope and stand for something. You're
33:19
Speaker 1: telling us this really makes a difference. Resonates, Yes, what
33:22
Speaker 1: about have you seen the Gillette add on that I
33:27
Speaker 1: might not? Now maybe I'm just a New York liberal
33:30
Speaker 1: East Coast you know, socialist summer camps. The line from
33:33
Speaker 1: the Woody Allen movie. Um, I watched that, and I'm like,
33:36
Speaker 1: I don't understand what. Hey, don't let your kids bully
33:39
Speaker 1: other kids. What they to complain about? Well, apparently we're
33:43
Speaker 1: on our little Manhattan Island bubble, so we see the
33:46
Speaker 1: world differently than some other folks. Well, I hope they
33:51
Speaker 1: stayed with that, because I think that kind of advertising
33:54
Speaker 1: marketing is brilliant. I mean, we need more of that everywhere.
33:58
Speaker 1: I'm that that that universe needs to get those messages out.
34:03
Speaker 1: So when you stop and think about it, whether you
34:05
Speaker 1: whether you're a snowflake who's triggered by one of these things,
34:09
Speaker 1: or you think it's fine, or anything in between, if
34:13
Speaker 1: you just think about it from an advertising and marketing perspective.
34:17
Speaker 1: We're talking about Gillette and that's a win for them.
34:21
Speaker 1: Everything is so saturated and cluttered. To break through is
34:25
Speaker 1: not easy to do. You're absolutely right, so bravo to
34:29
Speaker 1: these companies for doing that. Let's for now stick with
34:32
Speaker 1: the business of fashion and what sort of changes are
34:36
Speaker 1: coming our way. You mentioned issues and retailing UM, and
34:40
Speaker 1: we talked earlier about fast fashion. What other changes do
34:44
Speaker 1: you see coming um to this industry. Some of the
34:47
Speaker 1: things that I see on the horizon are a lot
34:50
Speaker 1: of designers and a lot of people doing what we
34:53
Speaker 1: want to call um genderalist fashion, clothing that is designed
34:59
Speaker 1: for a man a woman. There's a lot of that
35:02
Speaker 1: starting to happen. Really, I've seen that with sneakers. What
35:05
Speaker 1: else is genderless sweaters, tops, pants? I mean, what makes
35:11
Speaker 1: it different depends on how how it's designed. There's a
35:15
Speaker 1: lot of that happening now and I think it's I
35:18
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting. There's a lot of seasonless clothing
35:22
Speaker 1: that is year round because of the technology and textiles
35:26
Speaker 1: and the layering of clothing. There's also a lot more
35:29
Speaker 1: size inclusivity happening. Where what does that mean? Define that
35:35
Speaker 1: For many years, all the good brands and designer clothes
35:38
Speaker 1: you'd buy would if I'm talking women, now you know
35:42
Speaker 1: you'd go up to maybe a size twelve, maybe a Fortunately,
35:46
Speaker 1: now they're going up to all the plus sizes being
35:49
Speaker 1: included in creating collections for big girls and people who
35:56
Speaker 1: who are not model size zero in two, four six,
36:00
Speaker 1: I mean that that's a huge I think fourteen or
36:04
Speaker 1: sixteen is the biggest size in America of the most people,
36:08
Speaker 1: and most designers don't even address them. Address that. You
36:11
Speaker 1: mentioned plus size models. That seems to be that's a
36:14
Speaker 1: big part of fashion week now when you see it
36:16
Speaker 1: in advertising, when you look at all the adds, they're
36:20
Speaker 1: girls across the spectrum from nice and thin and lovely,
36:24
Speaker 1: too big and beautiful and proud of it. Ashley Graham
36:28
Speaker 1: has opened up doors for lots of people when she
36:31
Speaker 1: became the first plus size model. I think on the
36:33
Speaker 1: cover of Sports Illustrated. Wasn't um I'm gonna get her
36:37
Speaker 1: name wrong? Was it? Kate Hudson. One of the swimsuit
36:40
Speaker 1: models was considers plus size and you look at her
36:43
Speaker 1: and she's gorgeous and not what you would really think
36:45
Speaker 1: of as it's been a very interesting industry that's been
36:50
Speaker 1: about that thin, skinny you know waif And now they're
36:55
Speaker 1: more zoptic and beautiful and and proud of it, um,
36:59
Speaker 1: you know, and and fashion now and and at the
37:01
Speaker 1: shows you see more inclusivity of of and diversity of
37:06
Speaker 1: black models and Asian models and Indian models and people
37:11
Speaker 1: of all the different ethnic cultures. I mean, that's who
37:14
Speaker 1: the customer is, that's who the world is. And designers
37:17
Speaker 1: who you know put out that one. You know, I
37:21
Speaker 1: don't one blonde girl with straight blonde hair, you know,
37:25
Speaker 1: sixty girls work. That's not what it's about. And so
37:28
Speaker 1: there's been a demand in the industry and the customers
37:31
Speaker 1: and the media have really gotten fired up and said,
37:36
Speaker 1: come on, let's reflect what's happening in the world. And
37:40
Speaker 1: I think that that's all really good positive changes for
37:43
Speaker 1: the fashion industry. And it'll be interesting to see this
37:46
Speaker 1: fashion wink that's coming up. Um how again, how how
37:52
Speaker 1: that plays out? Because the runway becomes a big bulletin
37:56
Speaker 1: board for what's happening. So that raises a really interesting
37:59
Speaker 1: question and how important are the runway shows and events
38:04
Speaker 1: like fashion Week to a selling the latest designs but
38:09
Speaker 1: be also being an influencer on culture and society. Well,
38:15
Speaker 1: I think the importance of fashion week and the fashion
38:17
Speaker 1: shows is changing. Um. I think we're in a very
38:22
Speaker 1: disruptive moment in fashion. People aren't quite sure, um if
38:27
Speaker 1: they should be doing shows and spending the large amounts
38:30
Speaker 1: of money for it. But it still is a vehicle
38:33
Speaker 1: that generates millions of Instagram moments, you know. So it's
38:39
Speaker 1: become a vehicle for social media to really get the
38:43
Speaker 1: message out or the look out. And that's the good
38:46
Speaker 1: news bad news in my mind, because I'm still of
38:49
Speaker 1: that generation like you say that, I wasn't born with
38:52
Speaker 1: an iPhone in my hand, and you know, and I
38:56
Speaker 1: think eventually it's it's all changing so much. I mean,
38:59
Speaker 1: I you sit at a fashion show and I find
39:01
Speaker 1: it very frustrating that hardly anybody's looking at the runway.
39:05
Speaker 1: They're looking at their phone and they're photographing everything, and
39:08
Speaker 1: instead of looking at the real thing happening, they're looking
39:10
Speaker 1: at it in a two inch by three inch little frame.
39:14
Speaker 1: You have to be present and then I put it down.
39:16
Speaker 1: You know, just look at what you look what's in
39:18
Speaker 1: front of you. I really admire concerts where you hear
39:21
Speaker 1: people where they say no phones allowed. I just saw um,
39:27
Speaker 1: who was it? I just saw a show with I'm
39:33
Speaker 1: drawing a blank on his name. I'll figure it out.
39:36
Speaker 1: I went to a show recently where everybody puts their
39:39
Speaker 1: phone in a bag and I actually left the phone
39:43
Speaker 1: UM in the car so I didn't have to deal
39:45
Speaker 1: with it. Because I thought they'd be a giant line.
39:47
Speaker 1: It turned out it's just a little magnet and they
39:49
Speaker 1: pop it open. It Really there are people like Dave Chappelle,
39:52
Speaker 1: who appears in various places will not allow Assaf Manji
39:56
Speaker 1: is another one. Yeah, I mean you look at these things.
39:58
Speaker 1: All you see is to see them arms in the
40:00
Speaker 1: in the air, and you can't even see who's performing
40:02
Speaker 1: because you've got to look through everybody's arms to the
40:05
Speaker 1: pictures they're taking. What do they do with all that
40:07
Speaker 1: footage and all those pictures? It goes up to Apple
40:11
Speaker 1: um or Google Photos and they never look at it again.
40:16
Speaker 1: The concept of being present in the moment and participating
40:19
Speaker 1: in what's happening right now. I think the current generation,
40:24
Speaker 1: while they have a lot to speak for, their their motivated,
40:28
Speaker 1: they're intelligent. They see the world um in ways that
40:32
Speaker 1: we may not. Sometimes it feels like they're missing that
40:36
Speaker 1: moment because they're trying to instagram it right, and everybody's
40:41
Speaker 1: designing things for that Instagram morble moment. You go to
40:44
Speaker 1: any party now or opening for something, it's no longer
40:47
Speaker 1: just the step and repeat wall where they're taking pictures
40:49
Speaker 1: with the brand's name on their They're finding some unique
40:54
Speaker 1: visual that conveys something they're doing. And that's the place
40:58
Speaker 1: where everybody, they expect, don't want everybody to take their picture,
41:02
Speaker 1: you know, to take their selfie, not not even a
41:06
Speaker 1: real picture, take your own picture in front of that
41:08
Speaker 1: that Instagram morble spot, you know. And that's how the
41:12
Speaker 1: world is viewed now through Instagram. So fashion week becomes
41:16
Speaker 1: a place where everybody wants to quickly say out, you know,
41:20
Speaker 1: I'm there, I was there. I that's the best look.
41:24
Speaker 1: Smart companies understand how to track data and and use
41:29
Speaker 1: that information and can say this was the biggest look
41:33
Speaker 1: that came out of that show. This is what we
41:35
Speaker 1: should get behind, you know, and this is something we
41:38
Speaker 1: should maybe you know, do a bigger production run on,
41:43
Speaker 1: you know, if you could use the information correctly. I
41:46
Speaker 1: think that there's some value in it. But you know,
41:49
Speaker 1: but otherwise, fashion week is is. Fashion shows are still
41:52
Speaker 1: the best way to see a designer's vision come to
41:56
Speaker 1: fruition from head to toe. What are they thinking? What's there?
41:59
Speaker 1: What's a look? What's the point of view? But I question, now,
42:04
Speaker 1: who's who are you doing it for? Who's again I'm
42:08
Speaker 1: getting too old now. I mean I used to go
42:10
Speaker 1: and I, you know, everybody in the front row, and
42:12
Speaker 1: then the second row and maybe even the third row.
42:15
Speaker 1: Now you go, who are these people? You know, I
42:17
Speaker 1: didn't know there was a job called influencer when I
42:20
Speaker 1: was growing up. I would have applied. Well, when you
42:22
Speaker 1: and I were growing up, that wasn't a job that
42:24
Speaker 1: didn't exist pre internet, pre mobile, pre cell phone. Um
42:30
Speaker 1: I forgot. I don't remember the brand, but I read
42:33
Speaker 1: uh something not too long ago. It might have been
42:36
Speaker 1: in Wired magazine that even ice cream companies are changing
42:41
Speaker 1: all their labeling on the packages so they're instagram double like,
42:47
Speaker 1: oh look how nice this is? Take a photo and
42:50
Speaker 1: that's free marketing and advertising for them. So the idea
42:53
Speaker 1: of actually building something from the ground up. You're gonna
42:59
Speaker 1: get lost in this sea of competition, but if you
43:01
Speaker 1: can get in front of enough people via Instagram or
43:04
Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter or what have you, it's a leg up. Yeah.
43:07
Speaker 1: I mean models are hired and booked for shows based
43:11
Speaker 1: on how many Instagram followers they have. You know, models
43:13
Speaker 1: and people celebrities used to have to build a career.
43:16
Speaker 1: Now they build their their own platform. They do it
43:19
Speaker 1: all by themselves. You know, models have tell their story
43:23
Speaker 1: without you don't have to wait for them to be
43:25
Speaker 1: on fifteen Vogue covers to have a career. They reach
43:29
Speaker 1: out and they do their story and they have millions
43:33
Speaker 1: of followers. But you know in Instagram, there was a
43:36
Speaker 1: one of my favorite jokes I saw was on UM.
43:39
Speaker 1: I think it must have been a New Yorker cartoon
43:41
Speaker 1: of a couple of people, a couple at a table
43:43
Speaker 1: and a restaurant eating and the chef walks over to
43:46
Speaker 1: them and looks at them and says, what's the matter.
43:49
Speaker 1: Didn't you like the food? And they said, well, yeah,
43:52
Speaker 1: they said, because nobody took a picture. Um, you know,
43:56
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pronounce her name, Emily Radoshkowski, who was
44:00
Speaker 1: in the Blurredlines video. I think she has some like
44:02
Speaker 1: four million Twitter followers. It's um, it's really shocking, and
44:08
Speaker 1: that is here. I could actually pull it up while
44:11
Speaker 1: where her official Oh I'm wrong one point three million,
44:15
Speaker 1: so but still that's a million people. That's a lot
44:18
Speaker 1: of people. Um, she got famous long before that. But
44:22
Speaker 1: at a certain point, if you want a career in
44:26
Speaker 1: fill in the blank, having the ability to influence or
44:32
Speaker 1: attract in the modern era, being adept at marketing, especially
44:38
Speaker 1: online and social networks is a user huge advantage for
44:43
Speaker 1: anybody pretty much in any career at risk. It man
44:46
Speaker 1: splaining that, but it seems to be a big, big
44:50
Speaker 1: part of that many industries. It is. Well, that's how
44:52
Speaker 1: people get their information online and on a screen on
44:56
Speaker 1: a cell phone on I mean, I have nieces who
44:58
Speaker 1: don't ever turn television and they watch everything on their
45:01
Speaker 1: computer on their laptops. I never never have TV on. So,
45:05
Speaker 1: so what does all of this mean for the future
45:08
Speaker 1: of fashion and clothing? If people aren't watching TV, if
45:13
Speaker 1: they're not paying attention to what's going on around them,
45:16
Speaker 1: how do um companies and manufacturers and advertisers reach the audience, well,
45:25
Speaker 1: you know how it affects them all. I mean, at
45:28
Speaker 1: the end of the day, people are still wearing clothing.
45:31
Speaker 1: You know, people haven't all the last week they I
45:34
Speaker 1: guess walked out on the subways with no pants on
45:36
Speaker 1: or something. There was some it was a big deal
45:39
Speaker 1: pant day or something. But people are still getting up
45:42
Speaker 1: every day and putting clothing on, and they're still wearing clothes.
45:45
Speaker 1: They still buy things. So the industry is not going
45:50
Speaker 1: too far away, um, But how people reach out to them,
45:54
Speaker 1: that's that's a good question. I mean, you have to
45:57
Speaker 1: be you have to hire smart and Brighten, um and
46:00
Speaker 1: I and you have to get into that head of
46:02
Speaker 1: that millennial and some of those young people who are
46:06
Speaker 1: really out there thinking coming up with clever ideas. You
46:09
Speaker 1: have to create experiences and you have to create something
46:11
Speaker 1: that resonates. And that's why I said, it's whether it's
46:15
Speaker 1: resonating about the environment and things that matter to people.
46:19
Speaker 1: This generation is finally caring about the environment because it's
46:24
Speaker 1: the planet that they're they're growing up in. And I
46:27
Speaker 1: think there's more and more attention to that learning about that.
46:31
Speaker 1: Brands that are making a real concerted effort to do
46:35
Speaker 1: something that is sustainable and correct. Um. And we're all
46:38
Speaker 1: still learning about that and don't even know what all
46:40
Speaker 1: those words mean. UM. You know. I'm on the board
46:43
Speaker 1: of the f I T Foundation. UM, and our gala
46:47
Speaker 1: this year in April is honoring is focusing on sustainability.
46:51
Speaker 1: It's gonna be surrounded by a conference for two days
46:55
Speaker 1: about the issue of sustainability, with great people speaking. UM.
47:00
Speaker 1: It's all about the young generation. These kids in school,
47:04
Speaker 1: they care about that, they recycle, they they they they
47:09
Speaker 1: really work things through. And companies have to start having
47:13
Speaker 1: a message that matters. UM. And I think that that's
47:17
Speaker 1: where somehow those messages get through. You. Can you stick
47:21
Speaker 1: around a bit? I have a bunch of more questions
47:23
Speaker 1: for you. We have been speaking with Fern Malice of
47:26
Speaker 1: the Firm Alice Consultancy and fashion icons at the Street. Y.
47:32
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and stick around
47:35
Speaker 1: for the podcast extras. Will we keep the tape rolling
47:38
Speaker 1: and continue discussing all things fashion. You can find that
47:41
Speaker 1: wherever your Finer podcasts are sold iTunes, Overcast, Stitcher, Bloomberg
47:47
Speaker 1: dot com. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions Right
47:51
Speaker 1: to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net.
47:55
Speaker 1: Follow me on Twitter at Rid Halts. You can check
47:57
Speaker 1: out my daily column at Bloomberg dot com m slash Opinion.
48:01
Speaker 1: I'm Barry with Holts. You're listening to Masters in Business
48:04
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast, Fern. Thank you
48:21
Speaker 1: so much for doing this. I've been looking forward to
48:23
Speaker 1: having this conversation. I was going to drag my wife
48:26
Speaker 1: in UM because she spent a long time teaching fashion
48:30
Speaker 1: illustration and Design UM and has since retired. But uh,
48:38
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other things I wanted to get
48:40
Speaker 1: to that I didn't, including fashion icons with Fern Malice.
48:45
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the series you
48:47
Speaker 1: do with the Street. Why how did the idea for
48:51
Speaker 1: this come up? And and tell us a little about
48:53
Speaker 1: the program. Well, I'm very, very proud of this, this series,
48:57
Speaker 1: almost as proud as I am of having created some
49:00
Speaker 1: week UM because yeah, now it really means a lot
49:05
Speaker 1: to me. And when I left i MG Fashion, when
49:09
Speaker 1: the tents we're moving from Brian Park to Lincoln Center,
49:13
Speaker 1: it was time for me to leave. I said, you
49:15
Speaker 1: know what, I've done this for almost nineteen years at
49:18
Speaker 1: Brian Park. It was my baby. It's moving to a
49:21
Speaker 1: new location, which I wasn't basically so thrilled with. Neither
49:25
Speaker 1: was the industry. And it's out of there already. UM,
49:28
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I needed break and so
49:31
Speaker 1: I took I took time off. I was happily able
49:35
Speaker 1: to do that. UM. And I experienced what I call
49:39
Speaker 1: and it's in my book, because I have a book
49:42
Speaker 1: called Fashion Lives from this series. Um, what became the
49:45
Speaker 1: coffee phase of my life, which meant that all of
49:49
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, I'm I'm trying to just chill
49:51
Speaker 1: and enjoy my house in the country, and and I'd
49:54
Speaker 1: get calls can I meet you for a cup of coffee?
49:56
Speaker 1: I have this idea I want to talk to you about.
49:58
Speaker 1: I have this new project coming. Can we go out
50:00
Speaker 1: for a cup of coffee? My friend told me I
50:03
Speaker 1: should talk to you. You're a good one to help
50:04
Speaker 1: me on this new startup. Can we have a cup
50:07
Speaker 1: of coffee? I said. Everybody wanted to take me out
50:09
Speaker 1: for a cup of coffee. Nobody wanted lunch of dinner.
50:11
Speaker 1: It was just coffee. I was crazy. Um, And it
50:16
Speaker 1: was oddly enough, over a cup of tea and a
50:18
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, a photographer, Timothy Greenfield Sanders, who said,
50:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to introduce you a friend of mine, Betsy,
50:23
Speaker 1: who's uh, who handles speaking tours and all this. You
50:27
Speaker 1: have great stories and to tell about ps. She introduces
50:31
Speaker 1: me to Susan Engle from Street wy Is ahead of
50:34
Speaker 1: their programming, and we have a cup of coffee and
50:38
Speaker 1: she said, you know, we've always loved fashion up here
50:41
Speaker 1: at the Y. We've done one offs, you know, Diane
50:45
Speaker 1: from Furstenberg has been up here or this one or
50:48
Speaker 1: Calvin through the years, but nothing that's been concrete, like
50:51
Speaker 1: a series. And they do have some very good series there.
50:55
Speaker 1: And for people who don't know, the sty is truly
50:58
Speaker 1: the pre eminent cultural and stitution in New York. I
51:01
Speaker 1: mean President's prime ministers, authors, actors, celebrity, anybody doing anything
51:07
Speaker 1: that matters it gets up there and and is interviewed
51:11
Speaker 1: or talk to somebody in their auditoriums um, it's extraordinary place.
51:15
Speaker 1: You can go there three fifty days a year and
51:20
Speaker 1: every night there's something politics. It's unbelievable. So Susan said,
51:25
Speaker 1: would you be interested interviewing fashion designers and doing something
51:28
Speaker 1: with us, and I said, you know, I'm the usually
51:31
Speaker 1: the one being interviewed, but I'm sure I could string
51:33
Speaker 1: together some intelligent questions. We named it Fashion Icons with
51:38
Speaker 1: Fern Malice, and she said, let's see if we can
51:41
Speaker 1: get some good people. So the first one was Norma
51:44
Speaker 1: Camali and there's an old, old pal and I think
51:47
Speaker 1: one of the most creative designers in the world. And
51:50
Speaker 1: the next one was Calvin Klein. And when I had
51:53
Speaker 1: Calvin on the stage, I said to him, one of
51:55
Speaker 1: my first questions to him was, why are you doing this.
51:59
Speaker 1: You're out of your business. You sold it. At that moment,
52:02
Speaker 1: it was like over ten years ago. You have nothing
52:04
Speaker 1: to sell and pitch, no new fragance, nothing coming out.
52:07
Speaker 1: And he said, I'm doing it because you asked me,
52:10
Speaker 1: and I'm doing it for you, and I'm doing because
52:12
Speaker 1: the why you know, he talked about important to why
52:15
Speaker 1: I was and I was like, good answer. And that
52:18
Speaker 1: kicked off this series where people buy tickets and it
52:22
Speaker 1: was like eight or nine hundred people in the auditorium
52:25
Speaker 1: and it's been Calvin and Donna and Tommy Hilfiger and
52:29
Speaker 1: Tom Ford and Mark Jacobs and Andre Leon Tally and Diane,
52:34
Speaker 1: and it just goes on and on and on, and
52:38
Speaker 1: it's now in my eighth year. I do maybe it depends.
52:43
Speaker 1: Scheduling is a nightmare some years six or seven. Some
52:47
Speaker 1: years it's ten. Some years it's three. You're not too
52:51
Speaker 1: far away from a hundred. Well, I'm forty forty three,
52:55
Speaker 1: and that might get I have a lot of people
52:58
Speaker 1: on the horizon, but dates are not confirmed. But I mean,
53:02
Speaker 1: in addition to the people I mentioned, I've done Leonard Lauder,
53:05
Speaker 1: you know who was one an extraordinary interview. Mr Valentino,
53:09
Speaker 1: Victoria Beckham Emon and Cindy Crawford and the Massonis and UM,
53:14
Speaker 1: Alexander Wang and Zach Posen, and I mean just the whole,
53:19
Speaker 1: the whole group. I just said our Arthur L. Gore,
53:22
Speaker 1: the photographer UM. In December, I did Peter Marino, the
53:25
Speaker 1: architect who talk about retail is retail important. On one
53:30
Speaker 1: Street in Manhattan, from Street from Madison to Fifth. He's
53:35
Speaker 1: designed the Fendi store, the Door store at the Chanel Store,
53:39
Speaker 1: the Zena store, the Louis Utan store, and Bulgary. It's
53:43
Speaker 1: one architect and his office has done all of that
53:46
Speaker 1: in a block. I mean, it's extraordinary and creating experiences
53:51
Speaker 1: that make you want to come in those stores and
53:53
Speaker 1: spend time there and buy something. So you know, it's
53:57
Speaker 1: it's the with and breath of the industry. Um. So
54:00
Speaker 1: if people want to find either the video or audio
54:04
Speaker 1: of fashion icons with fern Malice at where do they
54:08
Speaker 1: go from? You can go to the Wise YouTube channel
54:11
Speaker 1: and put in fern Malice and fashion icons and you
54:14
Speaker 1: can get, um like a three to five minute clip. Um,
54:19
Speaker 1: the whole interview is not available. Well, when are we
54:21
Speaker 1: going to make that available? You know this whole podcasting
54:24
Speaker 1: thing is going to be big one day. We have
54:26
Speaker 1: to have you actually and how long did these conversations? Minutes?
54:31
Speaker 1: An hour? Usually an hour and a half. And uh
54:36
Speaker 1: and I'd say a life story. It's it is the
54:38
Speaker 1: definitive interview of these people's lives. I walk out of
54:41
Speaker 1: there and you learned who they are? How how did
54:44
Speaker 1: you become this person? You grew up Most of these
54:47
Speaker 1: people grew up with nothing and had started a business
54:50
Speaker 1: with nothing. And I'm fascinated, how do you build a
54:53
Speaker 1: billion dollar business? How did who did you fire? How
54:56
Speaker 1: did you when you made your first sale? Well? Who who?
54:59
Speaker 1: So the tables in did you need to hire ten people.
55:02
Speaker 1: How much money did you need to borrow? How do
55:05
Speaker 1: you do this? How did it go to the next step,
55:07
Speaker 1: and how did it go to that? You know, to
55:09
Speaker 1: hear Michael Cores tell his story about being on the
55:12
Speaker 1: you know, ringing the bell when the Stockholm public you know,
55:16
Speaker 1: and his mother looking up at him at the podium
55:18
Speaker 1: going fiction tie you know, I mean, you know he
55:21
Speaker 1: said it was better than his bar mitzvah, you know,
55:23
Speaker 1: and I mean wonderful stories of these people's lives and careers.
55:27
Speaker 1: So we have to get this stuff. We have to
55:29
Speaker 1: free the content, get it out from behind wherever it is.
55:33
Speaker 1: And uh, well, we'll help you do that. That'll be
55:35
Speaker 1: easy enough to do. So I only have you for
55:38
Speaker 1: a limited amount of time, and I wanted to get
55:40
Speaker 1: to my favorite questions I asked all of my guests.
55:43
Speaker 1: So we'll put you on the hot seat for a
55:45
Speaker 1: few minutes. Let's start with an easy one. Tell us
55:49
Speaker 1: the most important thing people don't know about Fern malice.
55:55
Speaker 1: M hmm, what is the muscle? I mean, not really
55:59
Speaker 1: a soft inter real pussy cat. People think, um, your
56:03
Speaker 1: reputation as you're a tough cookie, but you're telling me.
56:06
Speaker 1: It's marshmallow inside. All right. That's good to know your
56:09
Speaker 1: assistant is laughing at behind your back, just so you know,
56:12
Speaker 1: do you agree with that? Um? Who are some of
56:17
Speaker 1: your early mentors who influenced your career? You know, I'd
56:20
Speaker 1: have to say my dad, my uncle's um my, my sisters, um,
56:27
Speaker 1: you know this family around me. There were there were
56:30
Speaker 1: a few in business, but I never was that like
56:36
Speaker 1: satched myself to somebody. What about designers who influenced the
56:40
Speaker 1: way you look at clothing and fashion? All of all
56:46
Speaker 1: of them, all of the above, Madelin, all right here, So, um,
56:51
Speaker 1: let's talk about books. Not the one you wrote, will
56:55
Speaker 1: include that in all of our links. But what are
56:57
Speaker 1: the same some of your favorite books? What do you
57:00
Speaker 1: read to relax fashion? Non fashions? You know when I
57:04
Speaker 1: reach relaxed or you know, three or four newspapers every
57:07
Speaker 1: every day. Um. But you know, one of my favorite
57:12
Speaker 1: books of all time is a book called A Thousand
57:14
Speaker 1: White Women. It is so good. Get it on Amazon
57:18
Speaker 1: one White Women. What's it about? It's about a time
57:22
Speaker 1: when President Grant was the president and and they were
57:27
Speaker 1: looking to assimilate some of the Indian tribes and bought
57:31
Speaker 1: and take their land basically. Um, so there was a
57:35
Speaker 1: deal struck between um, some of the Indian chiefs two
57:41
Speaker 1: give well with the chiefs and the administration to give
57:47
Speaker 1: them the tribes a thousand white women to become part
57:51
Speaker 1: of their tribes, to assimilate the cultures. It's quite fascinating.
57:56
Speaker 1: But I've also just starting the Becoming Michelle Obama's which
58:00
Speaker 1: is best selling book, and I think it was released
58:04
Speaker 1: in either end of November December. And I went to
58:07
Speaker 1: see her talk at Barkley Center and she's great. That
58:11
Speaker 1: met her and a couple of times since extraordinary, very
58:15
Speaker 1: nice short dress. Well, she was very important to the
58:18
Speaker 1: fashion industry, was she? That she wore so many young
58:22
Speaker 1: designers and unknown designers and up and coming designers and
58:26
Speaker 1: established designers, and she fashion was a huge messaging for her.
58:33
Speaker 1: When was the last time we saw a first lady
58:36
Speaker 1: who did that? Is that Jackie? Oh? Jackie was an
58:39
Speaker 1: important one. Um, then it wasn't oh, but it was
58:43
Speaker 1: jack Jackie Kennedy. Yes, Um, I think Michelle o Well,
58:47
Speaker 1: you know Nancy Reagan had her fashion moments with Gallanos
58:52
Speaker 1: and certain designers that she wore An Arnold skazzi and um,
58:56
Speaker 1: but Michelle Obama was a champion of the American fashion
59:00
Speaker 1: industry quite quite fascinating. Um, so what are you excited
59:05
Speaker 1: about in the fashion industry right now? M'm I'm excited
59:12
Speaker 1: about seeing what's going to be coming up in the
59:16
Speaker 1: next few weeks and how things are going to evolve
59:19
Speaker 1: and change. And is this an important important fashion especially
59:22
Speaker 1: important fashion show for or is this Well, it's the
59:26
Speaker 1: first of this year, it's the you know, it's the
59:28
Speaker 1: fall collections that we're going to be seeing. Um, I mean,
59:32
Speaker 1: it's fashion Week, It's there's another one going to be
59:35
Speaker 1: in September. So so tell us about a time you
59:38
Speaker 1: failed and what you learned from the experience. You know,
59:43
Speaker 1: I wish, I I can't. I don't remember something where
59:48
Speaker 1: I could say I really failed at it. I mean
59:51
Speaker 1: I've been a good, good girl. Um. You know, well,
59:55
Speaker 1: I don't mean a bit. I mean sometimes you try
59:57
Speaker 1: something and it doesn't work out, and there's a life
59:59
Speaker 1: lesson in it, not necessarily good versus bad. But gee,
1:00:02
Speaker 1: that didn't turn out the way I was hoping. But
1:00:04
Speaker 1: here's my takeaway. The most recent one was the chicken
1:00:08
Speaker 1: soup I made last weekend, I bought a really expensive
1:00:12
Speaker 1: free range chicken and it was tasteless. So the soup
1:00:16
Speaker 1: wasn't as good as my normal chicken soup really because
1:00:19
Speaker 1: it just didn't have all that fat and it just
1:00:21
Speaker 1: you know, the chicken didn't fight part the same way,
1:00:24
Speaker 1: So that was a mini failure. Um, what do you
1:00:27
Speaker 1: do for fun? What do you do outside of work
1:00:30
Speaker 1: to either relax or you know, stay busy and interested? What? What?
1:00:35
Speaker 1: What non fashioned stuff keeps you occupied? I have a
1:00:39
Speaker 1: house out in the East End, and I love going
1:00:42
Speaker 1: out there, thank god. It keeps me sane and it's
1:00:45
Speaker 1: not a lake, and I just so enjoy being there.
1:00:49
Speaker 1: I'm a very good gardener, and I do like cooking
1:00:52
Speaker 1: on the weekends in spite of my not so great
1:00:55
Speaker 1: chicken soup. Have you become a year round hamp tonight,
1:00:58
Speaker 1: because that's been more and more totally Yeah, for years.
1:01:01
Speaker 1: I think it mostly became a much more year round
1:01:05
Speaker 1: after nine eleven, I'd say, but I think about because
1:01:11
Speaker 1: people started moving out there and getting out there and
1:01:13
Speaker 1: living out there. But um, yeah, I've had that house
1:01:16
Speaker 1: since I was at the cfd A, and I remember
1:01:19
Speaker 1: a moment when I thought I can't do this. I'm
1:01:21
Speaker 1: not married. Why am I buying a house by myself?
1:01:23
Speaker 1: And I said, what am I going to have at
1:01:25
Speaker 1: the end of this ten years? Here? A lot of
1:01:27
Speaker 1: clothes to show for it? You know, it's the best
1:01:29
Speaker 1: decision I've ever made in my life. So what sort
1:01:33
Speaker 1: of advice would you give to a millennial or a
1:01:35
Speaker 1: recent college graduate who's interested in a career in fashion?
1:01:40
Speaker 1: I'd say why, Um, I'd say, you know, like every
1:01:45
Speaker 1: other thing you're interested in, become a sponge, just absorbital
1:01:49
Speaker 1: and just shut up a little bit and listen, you know,
1:01:52
Speaker 1: just listen. You don't you don't really have the answers
1:01:55
Speaker 1: to everything, um, as much as they think they do.
1:02:00
Speaker 1: Uh I and I think we need to at some
1:02:03
Speaker 1: point also listen more to some of these millennials. And finally,
1:02:10
Speaker 1: what is it that you know about the world of
1:02:12
Speaker 1: fashion and marketing today that you wish you knew thirty
1:02:15
Speaker 1: or so years ago when you were really gearing up
1:02:18
Speaker 1: your career. It's hard to say, because I wish thirty
1:02:21
Speaker 1: years ago I understood technology the way we have it now,
1:02:26
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's just so different. But if I
1:02:30
Speaker 1: could have done something differently, then I would have learned
1:02:34
Speaker 1: more about finance and business and numbers. I mean I
1:02:39
Speaker 1: never took that very seriously. I always said, oh, I'm
1:02:41
Speaker 1: on the creative side. Let somebody else worry about that.
1:02:44
Speaker 1: And I think that's important to always have an understanding
1:02:48
Speaker 1: and a grip on the financial implications inside of everything
1:02:53
Speaker 1: you're working on. Quite fascinating. We have been speaking with
1:02:57
Speaker 1: Fern Malice. She is the head of Malice LLC as
1:03:02
Speaker 1: well as the creator of Fashion Week, runs the Fashion
1:03:06
Speaker 1: Icons with Fern Malice at the Street Why. If you
1:03:10
Speaker 1: enjoy this conversation, be sure and look up an Inch
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Speaker 1: see any of the other two hundred and fifty or
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Speaker 1: so of these conversations we've put together over the past
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1:03:39
Speaker 1: staff who helps put together these conversations each week. Medina
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Speaker 1: Parwana is our producer. Caroline O'Brien is my audio engineer.
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Speaker 1: UH Taylor Riggs is our booker. Michael bat Nick is
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Speaker 1: my head of research. Attica val Brunn is our project manager.
1:03:56
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ritolts. You've been listening to Masker's Business on
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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radiom