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'The Phantom of the Opera' Story and Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to the shadows of the Paris Opera House, where music soars, candles flicker in the darkness, and a mass figure haunts the stage.
• 0:07
  On this episode of the BSB Podcast, we're diving into the fan of the opera, the timeless tale of obsession, genius, love, and longing.
• 0:14
  Spoiler warning, if you have not visited the famous Opera House of Horrors, in which to remain unspoiled, pause this video and return once you've visited with the angel of music.
• 0:21
  I'm super excited to talk about the show today.
• 0:25
  one fact that I finally got to see Phantom of the Opera on stage all the way through, which is the weirdest thing to think about when you're talking about a show.
• 0:36
  But listeners, I had the fortunate chance to see it on Broadway ah and explain to me why all the shows are at one time.
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  All the shows were at, I think they were at two or they were at three and Phantom of the Opera started an hour
• 0:54
  early for that one day.
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  One day.
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  It's a Wednesday, I'm pretty sure.
• 0:59
  We arrived, we roll up.
• 1:00
  It was not RJ.
• 1:01
  He did not go on this trip.
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  This was pre podcast and BSB insider.
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  um And we rolled up and we're standing outside and go, wow, there's no queue.
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  There's no line.
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  We got here so early.
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  And after standing outside for five minutes, one of the people inside opened the door and they said, are you coming in?
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  And we said, sure.
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  You're letting us in already.
• 1:21
  And he said, yeah, the show started a half an hour ago.
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  And that was how I saw Phantom of the Opera from post the song Phantom of the Opera till the end.
• 1:34
  Now, what I love about this, RJ, is that you have very different um experiences with Phantom of Opera on Broadway, because you saw it 10,000 times.
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  And I saw it two thirds of the way through.
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  What was your experience seeing?
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  fan of the operator of this.
• 1:52
  Well, like any traditional proper music nerd in high school, we went on band and choir tour.
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  And of naturally the only show that both of those tours thought was appropriate for our high school to see was Phantom of the Opera.
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  And so every time we went to New York, we saw Phantom of the Opera.
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  And of course, high schoolers, you're like in the last row of the last balcony and half of them aren't even paying attention because they're just like messing around.
• 2:32
  Um, although I should preface this with saying my high school was tiny.
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  so probably at least a quarter to a third of the people in music classes were only taking them to like avoid actual class.
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  It wasn't like competitive, like, you know, some schools have like really intense music programs.
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  This was not the case.
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  So there was like 15 of us that were super into Phantom and then everyone else was like, you know, making out with our neighbor.
• 3:07
  I don't know.
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  Doing high school things.
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  But also explains as to why you went on to have a music degree when maybe these other people were just looking for a way out of math class.
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  It's interesting though that your school chose Phantom and I get it.
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  It's one of the longest running musicals.
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  It is considered probably a classic now.
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  We're now getting the revival tour-ish right now.
• 3:31
  This is, you know, it hasn't been on Broadway in a minute.
• 3:34
  Um, and it has saw a new life in Masquerade, but it's interesting that they chose this for high school students because this is not necessarily like a high school story.
• 3:41
  Like this is quite dark and this is quite a twisted love triangle that is not
• 3:49
  what I would call teenage, high school friendly.
• 3:52
  Like I remember having to sign, like my mom had to sign permission slips for me to watch certain movies in school and let alone go to see Phantom of the Opera where the Phantom
• 4:03
  is, spoiler alert, killing people and or obsessed with somebody.
• 4:08
  Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we also signed, you know, permission slips.
• 4:13
  uh
• 4:15
  I mean, this was uh over a decade ago, right?
• 4:19
  This is almost literally 15 years ago.
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  So I just think back to, don't even know what else was on Broadway at that time.
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  Obviously there's a bunch of stuff on Broadway all the time, but I'm just imagining like.
• 4:33
  You go with the devil you know, right?
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  And so our music directors know, everyone, whether or not, you know, it's necessarily appropriate.
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  Like every high schooler knew exactly what Phantom of the Opera was.
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  It wasn't like some shock or surprise.
• 4:51
  ah Comparatively to like if they were to take us to a show that had just opened and nobody knew what it was and like what if it was something scandalous?
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  um
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  Like, wicked.
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  Ooh.
• 5:07
  Yeah, well, again, I went to a private Christian high school that was extremely conservative, and so honestly...
• 5:16
  I take that back.
• 5:16
  take it back.
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  We understand what's happening here.
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  um Especially those of the different story, different conversation, go back to our conversation with Tori from earlier in the year.
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  like, you know, depending on how you read Elphaba and Galinda, maybe that was a little bit too not appropriate.
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  But this one, what's interesting is that I think that comparatively from when I was a child, and I shouldn't say child, I was in high school and I first saw Phantom of the
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  Opera, I saw the film.
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  um
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  with Gerard Butler and Emmy Rossum and Patrick Wilson.
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  Can't forget lovely Patrick Wilson.
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  And so I think it's interesting that when you watch that as a high schooler, I had a very different connection with it than I do as an adult now.
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  And I think what's, think that I'll just go out and say it.
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  I think that there was an attractiveness to the Phantom back in, when I was in high school, you know, and as an adult, I'm like,
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  This man is clearly got some issues.
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  That's the concept of me.
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  It's like this man has some issues and we need to sit him down and talk about it in therapy.
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  I
• 6:22
  Yes.
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  Although it is funny because Phantom just...
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  It is such a classic.
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  It is so old that like, I don't think people actively think about how screwed up it is.
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  Like for those who aren't familiar, first off, where have you been?
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  But second off, Phantom of the Opera is literally a love triangle where Christine Daae, who is, I'm guessing about 16 to 19.
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  She's pretty young.
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  And then there's Raoul, which is her lover from when she was a child.
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  Think of like, you know, the person that you would meet on a summer holiday and you fall in love with them and you have that little summer romance and now you're growing up.
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  And then you have the phantom, which this one was a little younger, but traditionally the phantom is like a 30 to 40 year old man.
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  There's like clearly an age gap and he is, and I keep using this word, but he's truly obsessed with the Christine to the point where it is so unhealthy.
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  He's like basically catfishing her.
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  He's for the younger kids.
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  He is catfishing her.
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  He is pretending to be the angel of music and or her father to
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  trick her into coming to his lair and so yeah, it's just it's just a very interesting show now as an adult being like that.
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  Somebody has some unchecked trauma that they need to go talk to a therapist about you know.
• 7:46
  Yeah, well of course, I mean...
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  what a time to be alive when there was like your trauma.
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  That's how you managed your trauma is just like accepting that there's a ghost in your room and going with him and being totally fine with all of the crazy shit that's happening
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  until you're not.
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  Correct.
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  And like, is that naivete?
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  Is that the fact that she's traumatized, she lost her father?
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  And there is a lot of loss in this show too, which I think is interesting.
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  uh Again, Andrew Lloyd Webber, I'm gonna preface this by saying I love pretty much all of Andrew Lloyd Webber's work.
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  We will reconvene after we see Cats the Jellicle Ball to see if that still applies.
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  Or if that applies more, because maybe Cats is not my favorite.
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  But I do think Andrew Lloyd Webber does write a pretty good show and he's basing it off of a novel that has been around forever.
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  And it gets kind of intense.
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  And I think that there's an intrigue.
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  There's like as a teenager, that's kind of intriguing to step into this world of like my dark romance girlies out there know what I'm talking about.
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  There's something that it's like, ooh, this is nice.
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  This is spicy.
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  He's dangerous.
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  Is he going to hurt me?
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  Like, but as an adult, I'm just like, don't.
• 8:58
  That appeal, I'm also like, I like Raoul, he's reliable, he's strong, he's sturdy, he may be a little cocky, but that's okay, I can work with that, we can change him, like, you
• 9:07
  know what I mean?
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  And now I'm just getting into too much psychology here.
• 9:11
  I mean.
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  So we have, you know, ultimately, according to the research, 16 to 20 year old Christine.
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  And then we have the Phantom who is supposedly in his 50s.
• 9:27
  um Yes.
• 9:32
  And I don't think it's portrayed that way, which is what makes...
• 9:37
  I think which is what gives people pause at first in regards to like, whose team you're on.
• 9:44
  And as we've previously discussed, even though it's so gross, if we look not from the psychology part of it, I am team phantom.
• 9:57
  Okay.
• 9:58
  Um, even though he is totally, obviously he's a murderer.
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  He's got a lot of issues mentally, but also he's a genius.
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  Um, and I just, well, I think to like the geniuses in real life and how like quirky and obviously there's a, there's a stark difference between quirky and being a murderer, but
• 10:27
  I can see how someone is so dedicated to a craft that anyone that gets in your way is seen as a threat to what you're building, which is ultimately why he was murdering people,
• 10:39
  right?
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  So I get, I see it.
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  It doesn't make it great, but I see it.
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  Raoul, I don't know.
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  He just rubs me the wrong way.
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  I don't know why.
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  Maybe it's just because it's so cliche to be like.
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  my childhood friend happened to see me the one night that I happened to now star in this opera that I've never done before.
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  and I'm just gonna say this one poetic line that we said to each other as children, and she's gonna know that it's me, and then we're gonna run away together forever.
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  I'm gonna go ahead and I'm actually going to agree with you that I'm also still Team Phantom.
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  And I do think that there's something interesting to be said about these two men.
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  And I wanna just also preface my little speech here by saying that this is still very much Christine's story.
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  And I think that we need to talk about her in a second because I love this.
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  I love this portrayal of Christine for a very specific reason.
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  But when you look at the characters,
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  Both of them are possessive.
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  Both the Phantom and Raoul, they're possessive.
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  But what's different is that Raoul's in a possessive way of like, give up your dream and everything that you want to be to just be my woman, essentially.
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  And the Phantom is like the, you have so much talent that I am going to do anything for you to be heard.
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  In a weird way, it's like, I want to support you in your dream no matter what.
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  And Raoul's like, give up your dream to be my person.
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  Which is where when you look at it, that dichotomy is a little strange.
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  Because most people would be like, yeah, well, Raoul's, again, sturdy.
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  He is reliable.
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  He cares about her.
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  But does he?
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  Does he care about her in the fact of, granted, I know this is a long time ago.
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  Things were different.
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  They didn't have always necessarily supporting women's dreams.
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  But the Phantom was very much like the Christine is fantastic, and the world should know that.
• 12:38
  Yes, and that's a great point because I don't think I've thought of it from that perspective, but it totally aligns with why I would have an issue with it because...
• 12:48
  I mean, women empowerment.
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  In case you guys hadn't heard any of our episodes, it's pretty clear I'm relatively hardcore feminist.
• 12:57
  ah So it makes sense to be like.
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  How dare you, like in my perspective to Raoul, like how dare you just be like, well, loving me is enough.
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  And now we're just like, walk away from everything that you know, literally, because you grew up in that opera house because your father was a violinist there.
• 13:19
  Just walk away and I'll take care of you forever and ever, um Whereas the phantom is like, I helped build who you are today, which I don't love that either.
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  Let's be clear there.
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  um But it's at least in helping her to embrace who she is.
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  Like there's a sense of identity that comes there that I feel like it's tossed.
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  when she's with Raoul versus the Phantom.
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  which I'm gonna go to one scene specifically, and I'm also gonna tie this to maybe an example.
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  So when you take the scene, all I ask of you, and just to give everybody, uh to set the scene a little bit is the Phantom had just killed somebody, the show ends, basically the
• 14:08
  show that they're doing, and Christine runs up to the roof and Raoul follows her, and they basically have this exchange, like, she's afraid, he's like, don't worry.
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  give it all up, let's just go and get married, it's gonna be fine.
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  And at the end of it, she's also convinced that this is the best idea.
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  And then of course you have one of my favorite parts is when the phantom shows up and he sings like he's really upset.
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  he's more, so I think that a lot, could be interpreted that he's upset because she chose Raoul over him.
• 14:40
  But this version, and I don't know if this is just Isaiah Bailey's version of it, it read the, you're choosing,
• 14:48
  Raoul over music.
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  And as a result, you're choosing him over me.
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  And when you talk about the possessiveness of him and like how you don't love that, it also kind of reminds me though of like, also probably maybe not a good example, but like,
• 15:00
  like a, like a dance mom, you know I mean?
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  Like of like, I've put all this time and energy and money and effort into making you who you are.
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  And you're turning your back because you're young, naive, and you're running away with a man who you think is your complete love.
• 15:16
  And so that is kind of
• 15:18
  I got a different side of the Phantom where it wasn't just like he was obsessed with her because she was a woman or that she was property, but he was so in love with her as an
• 15:27
  artist.
• 15:28
  Like he refers to her as his muse.
• 15:31
  And that feels different.
• 15:33
  yeah, that's why it doesn't seem, even though it is technically gross, it doesn't seem as gross because at least the way I'm perceiving it is he's not coming to this from a
• 15:46
  hypersexual standpoint or a predatory way.
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  It's more a, you have this talent that I'm fostering.
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  I'm putting
• 16:00
  All of my time and effort into you and I have been for we don't know how long, right?
• 16:04
  We just know she's been taking lessons.
• 16:07
  Um, justifiably so, like as someone who has taught voice lessons and piano lessons, there is a sense of like pride and connection to your student, especially when they're doing
• 16:20
  well and you see them progressing and going on.
• 16:25
  Um, but
• 16:27
  The flip side of that is if they just give up and walk away, you're like, what are you doing?
• 16:32
  What, especially if they're naturally talented, like you're just like, I mean, obviously it's, it's, it's still their decision.
• 16:39
  So it's still her decision.
• 16:40
  Um, but it can be heartbreaking because.
• 16:44
  you know that there could have been something there, obviously.
• 16:49
  Yeah, granted I've never taught music in that way, but I can understand that passion of being like, you have something, why are you giving it up?
• 17:00
  And I think that dichotomy really plays out well in this, again, performances.
• 17:05
  And I'm gonna take us to another scene where right at the end of Phantom of the Opera, song, and they go through the boat, they get to the front of the stage, and then when he's
• 17:14
  asking her to sing for me, which is a very iconic part of it,
• 17:18
  I don't know if I just didn't notice this again because I came in the end, didn't notice his face, but this one, Isaiah Bailey, he was, as she sang higher, his face got a manic,
• 17:29
  but also excited.
• 17:31
  And it wasn't about like the fact that she was present in his room, but it was as the note got higher and he heard how high she could go and how talented she was, that's what got
• 17:39
  him excited.
• 17:40
  And when I saw that look on his face, said, I don't think that's something that anybody in the back row would ever have understood.
• 17:47
  And I think if that was just an individual choice, that makes the Phantom different.
• 17:54
  It's just a simple thing as a facial expression.
• 17:57
  Yeah, I picked up on different things having seen it now, first of all, closer, but also just noticed that scene specifically, he spent, it seems like he spent more time around
• 18:11
  the organ and around his music.
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  And so it did feel like it was more centered towards
• 18:20
  that kind of perspective.
• 18:22
  Like it still, it all had to do with music.
• 18:26
  um Which I mean, he obviously says, right, he's making that opera and he's, the whole reason that he's bringing her down here is to help build this opera.
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  um
• 18:42
  But I mean, I also can't turn a complete blind eye to the fact that he has a mannequin with a wedding dress on it, right?
• 18:48
  Like I'm not completely oblivious.
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  I am curious, like.
• 18:54
  where that falls.
• 18:56
  Like, if we're on a sliding scale, um is it like 80 % like musical genius and then like 20 % like love obsessed puppy?
• 19:09
  um Not sure.
• 19:12
  I do think though, if that proportion of the book and show was completely taken out, I think
• 19:22
  we would all be on Team Phantom because there would be no reason for us to dislike him.
• 19:29
  I would also, I actually thought when we saw this that the, and I knew that that was coming.
• 19:35
  Actually, I had somebody who had seen it beforehand and they're like, what was that goblin thing with the wedding dress?
• 19:39
  And I said, the mannequin.
• 19:41
  And when I saw it there on stage with this Phantom and this Christine, actually said, I actually thought to myself, said, this mannequin with the wedding dress feels out of place
• 19:49
  now.
• 19:50
  It doesn't feel like it matches the story that's being told here because I almost never got romantic vibes between the two of them.
• 19:57
  Like that, I feel like that piece was kind of missing.
• 20:00
  Yeah, it was kind of like a token moment.
• 20:02
  um
• 20:04
  because I think it was even the way that his body language for that scene, how he presented the mannequin and during Angel of Music.
• 20:17
  or I mean really during that whole scene, it wasn't like, I just remember seeing and maybe I'm remembering the movie where when he's touching her and stuff, it does feel very
• 20:27
  sexual.
• 20:28
  It feels very like, okay, he's infatuated with her.
• 20:35
  With this.
• 20:36
  his hands were not, they were so specific in where they were placed and how he was touching her.
• 20:48
  didn't feel possessive, it didn't feel sexual, it felt fatherly.
• 20:54
  uh
• 20:57
  was gonna say almost marionette a little bit, kinda like pulling the strings a few times I felt like.
• 21:01
  Like when he would like touch her shoulder, it was almost like he was pulling the strings to be like, okay, I've done this.
• 21:09
  I've done this.
• 21:10
  I've made this person who can sing and perform.
• 21:14
  But like also I can get the fatherly vibe too, not that you say that that makes sense because those two things, again, it was like, again, this is somebody who I've shaped, not
• 21:22
  somebody that I'm in love with.
• 21:25
  Well, and I think, um you know, as we dive into Christine's character, she felt different too, because she wasn't feeding into that.
• 21:36
  Because, you know, there's two sides to everything.
• 21:42
  It didn't feel like she was, I mean, obviously there was like a dreamy sense to it or like a fogginess, I would say, of her following him, but it didn't, again, it didn't feel
• 21:58
  hypersexual.
• 21:58
  It didn't feel like, oh, like my breath has taken away.
• 22:03
  know, like it didn't feel like that, which is how I feel like I've seen it before, ah which is.
• 22:10
  kind of what leans into that gross feeling.
• 22:15
  So I'm curious, like I'm curious if it's an acting choice or just like they've changed the direction.
• 22:22
  But also it made her feel more independent, more, I don't know, strong.
• 22:31
  was gonna say I once heard a theory like like a joking theory that the smoke that comes out when the mirror rises was like a like a drug almost that like that like changes her
• 22:42
  reality and I felt this a little bit more because by the time it got to the point of after Phantom of the opera and he's kind of singing to her and stuff like that she feels like
• 22:51
  she's almost waking up out of a dream be like why am I kind of down here this is a little interesting and then she also when
• 23:00
  She goes to remove the mask.
• 23:02
  It's not in a way that it feels like, I don't know.
• 23:04
  It's not a way of, I'm trying to see you so I know who you are.
• 23:07
  But it's kind of like, I have autonomy over the situation, and this is weird.
• 23:14
  It felt very much like, this Christine, and shout out to Jordan Lee Gilbert, is very strong.
• 23:19
  And I almost was in my head at one point, being like, I'm almost Team Christine.
• 23:24
  um I almost want her to choose herself in all of this.
• 23:27
  uh
• 23:29
  because she was so, I've seen it before where she's almost like weak, you know, she's strong in her voice, but she's like weak in like how she presents herself.
• 23:38
  And this one was very in tuned with who she was, especially as she was performing, Think of Me.
• 23:46
  And as she kind of came into herself, there was a bit that felt more, and I'll give an example.
• 23:54
  In the film,
• 23:55
  which I noticed that a lot of the songs were changed, but when she's singing with her friend Meg, she sings about being frightened.
• 24:03
  And in this one, she's not singing about being frightened.
• 24:06
  It's not as like...
• 24:08
  It was more like she's intrigued and she's maybe a little bit like...
• 24:13
  Sometimes when the unknown is little scary, but you still do it anyways, there was a weight to her on that.
• 24:19
  Yeah, I think, I mean, of course, like, as we look at the age, like curiosity around that time, um, especially like if this has been your life, like, I just think.
• 24:34
  in the opera, especially as like an ensemble member or a dancer, like that's your life.
• 24:40
  Like that's all you're doing.
• 24:41
  And so it feels like her only outlet to maybe the world are these slivers of different parts of her life.
• 24:54
  And obviously the Phantom becoming a large sliver of that because it's the only time that she's really not like,
• 25:03
  in rehearsal or on stage or, whatever.
• 25:08
  So that's another dynamic that I'm like, okay, well, this also aside from her family who is now gone and her father who's been dead for some time, like that's the only man in her
• 25:21
  life until Raoul comes back in.
• 25:25
  Again, not that she needs any man, but yeah, it's,
• 25:32
  an interesting dynamic.
• 25:35
  And now I do feel like I need to go back and watch the film to compare because, well, I just love the film, but you know.
• 25:44
  I only watched it twice the week before we went to go see it.
• 25:47
  ah there's one other piece I do want to address here before I leave the Phantom.
• 25:52
  But in the scene where she is in his lair and she takes off his mask, there was something interesting that I felt for the first time as well.
• 26:00
  And again, this was the first time seeing it since being like a full-fledged psychologist and really, I guess I was a psychologist last time, but I really missed some of those
• 26:07
  pieces because we missed the beginning of the show.
• 26:08
  um When she takes off his mask and he's crawling across the floor,
• 26:14
  I had something click in me, like the psychologist in me clicked about how, and this goes with the theory that it's not obsession for love, but obsession because of the music, is
• 26:24
  that sometimes when we feel inadequate, which he has his deformities, which he doesn't like, that's why he hides with the mask, you make it up like almost taking another part,
• 26:34
  another talent, another something, another part of you and making it almost your full personality.
• 26:39
  And so that's why when he had that removed,
• 26:42
  And he's crawling across the floor, he's singing and he's like almost mad that like I've been revealed, but not because you're seeing my true face, but because I'm no longer just
• 26:50
  the beautiful, you know, baritone sound that everybody's hearing.
• 26:55
  I'm no longer just this angel of music anymore.
• 26:57
  I'm now a human and you've taken that part away from me.
• 27:00
  And so I thought that was interesting too, because that's something I never really picked up from pair on the opera before.
• 27:04
  Yeah, which also...
• 27:06
  Listeners, can correct me if I'm wrong.
• 27:08
  I don't remember that.
• 27:10
  I don't remember him crawling across the floor.
• 27:12
  uh At least like not for that whole interaction.
• 27:21
  And.
• 27:22
  people can yell at me, but like it felt a little bit cringe to me.
• 27:26
  Um, for long, like, I mean, it was just so long and it wasn't doing anything.
• 27:37
  Like she didn't move, which if you're like a running from someone and you're scared of them, I can't imagine that as they are crawling at you, which is super creepy.
• 27:52
  that you just sit there.
• 27:54
  I mean, I guess you could argue that she's in shock.
• 27:57
  I just, I don't know.
• 27:58
  don't, it's, again though, it's been 15 years.
• 28:01
  So, um.
• 28:02
  I don't remember that either though.
• 28:04
  I don't know, it just, it's very, like at that point, just like get up.
• 28:10
  It's not like he has a broken limb or something.
• 28:12
  I'm just like, okay, he threw himself to the ground.
• 28:16
  I get crawling for like one shuffle, but then like just do something else.
• 28:22
  Like whether it's getting up on a knee, whether it's just like slowly getting back up.
• 28:26
  Like it just, I was like, why are we still?
• 28:31
  kicking, why are we army crawling all the way across the stage?
• 28:37
  I is a fair point.
• 28:38
  agree.
• 28:38
  I also felt very uncomfortable in like a cringe way.
• 28:41
  I think part of what happened with the Phantom, and I think it has to do with more with what we're going to talk about in part two, is that he didn't feel as intimidating
• 28:49
  because, and I couldn't figure out, is it because they're relatively the same height and usually the Phantoms that we see are towering over him, or was it because that his voice
• 28:56
  was higher than the typical Phantom that made him seem more...
• 29:01
  more like, this is a bad word and I don't mean this against anybody, like whiny a little bit.
• 29:05
  know, like he's more whining about, he's lamenting instead of being like scary.
• 29:10
  I remember when I saw that scene on Broadway, cause I did see that scene on Broadway, he's storming around and he's almost like screaming.
• 29:18
  He's almost like angry and mad.
• 29:22
  And then he gets back the mask and he puts it back on and then it gets slow again.
• 29:26
  And then it becomes back to like, he's almost sorry.
• 29:28
  Like, I'm sorry that you saw me this way.
• 29:30
  I'm sorry that you saw me freak out a little bit.
• 29:33
  And so I also thought the same thing.
• 29:34
  I was like, I don't remember on the floor.
• 29:35
  And that scene felt like a drug on forever.
• 29:37
  And I almost felt a little bit of secondhand embarrassment, but also great talent being able to sing while you're inchworming across the floor.
• 29:45
  Yeah, I was like, I mean, good on you for that diaphragm action because yeah, it was just a very bizarre ah blocking or choreography it seemed, but maybe that was intentional.
• 30:01
  Maybe it was to make him seem less intimidating and to ground him literally a little bit more.
• 30:07
  ah And it's keeping his face more because she's on the ground.
• 30:14
  So it's keeping his face more at level with her.
• 30:19
  Maybe that was, I don't know, directors, producers, let us know what the idea was.
• 30:27
  We're curious, we wanna know.
• 30:30
  There's two more relationships I do want to talk about, or just like interactions that changed a little bit.
• 30:34
  ah One of them was Madame Giry which I thought was interesting was that in the movie, having seen it twice in the past week before we saw the show, she's almost motherly to the
• 30:43
  Phantom.
• 30:44
  She's almost like an older sister or like a mom kind of caretaking for him.
• 30:48
  And I didn't get that in the show.
• 30:49
  What I got a little bit was that there was like a respect and there was like, I don't know, it didn't feel as protective.
• 30:59
  It felt more like she was, I'm aware he exists, he aware I'm exist, we're both respecting each other in our spaces and just that's the end of it.
• 31:06
  Even though we do know each other, but it's not like we intimately know each other, which I always got beforehand, but they were like, I could see them sitting down for tea and
• 31:13
  eating, you know, eating breakfast together or something.
• 31:15
  And this one felt very much like the, don't talk to him, just talk to me unless I receive a note on my desk that I'm going to pass off to you guys.
• 31:21
  Which I thought was a different take on it.
• 31:23
  Yeah, this one felt a bit more fearful to me, um which justifiably so.
• 31:31
  There are people dying and there, you know, no rhyme or reason.
• 31:36
  um I think in previous ones there was fear too, but there in tandem with fear, there was that connection that you're kind of speaking about because
• 31:52
  and I could be totally wrong.
• 31:54
  ah
• 31:56
  I thought I remembered that she was the one who let him in to the building to hide.
• 32:05
  And I don't know if I missed the line this last time around.
• 32:08
  I know when she was talking to Raoul, she was saying who he was, where he came from, but like, and that she, that they never found him.
• 32:18
  But I don't recall her saying that she was the one who let him in.
• 32:24
  um
• 32:26
  I agree with that.
• 32:27
  I could have totally missed it.
• 32:29
  But I think that makes a difference because then she's directly linked.
• 32:35
  Like then there is a reason as to why she has a soft spot.
• 32:39
  Whereas this version didn't feel like she had a soft spot.
• 32:43
  She just literally was like, I out of fear of my life and for my child's life, here's what I will do.
• 32:52
  Here's what I won't do.
• 32:54
  Here's what you should do to also stay alive.
• 32:57
  Pretty much.
• 32:57
  I think changes the part in the film that never really made sense to me was when all of a sudden she went from being friends, being friends, being friends, and then she switches
• 33:05
  and tells Raoul how to survive and takes him down there to defeat the Phantom.
• 33:10
  And to me, I was like, that doesn't make sense, because this is your son, this is your brother, this is your uncle.
• 33:15
  And then all of a sudden she's, but this one, was like the, maybe it's best if he's no longer a problem.
• 33:21
  You know what I mean?
• 33:21
  And that made sense for the character being like the, we're all fearful.
• 33:24
  My daughter's life's in danger at this point, Christine's life's in danger, and so if you just got rid of the Phantom, it would be okay.
• 33:31
  But in the film, fairly much, felt like she still wanted the Phantom to be alive and stuff like that up until that point.
• 33:36
  Yeah, I would agree with that.
• 33:39
  think it is, it's just an interesting dynamic change.
• 33:45
  And honestly, it makes me just want to read the book again.
• 33:51
  Although it is, the book definitely makes you feel like you don't want to be Team Phantom.
• 33:58
  I'll just say that.
• 34:01
  But our sister did read it for the website, so that is coming.
• 34:03
  And she said the ending is different.
• 34:05
  And what was interesting to me about it is that she mentions that they all just disappear.
• 34:09
  Everybody just disappears, and that's not what happens in the show.
• 34:12
  um And she goes, it feels like it's written very old, and they want you to like the Phantom, and he's just not likable.
• 34:20
  And so it's interesting that they really kind of made him the, he's the centerpiece of the story.
• 34:24
  um
• 34:26
  But before we wrap up this episode, do want to talk about one more person.
• 34:29
  I'm sorry, I know there's a lot of people, you have to bear with me.
• 34:31
  ah I want to talk about Carlotta.
• 34:35
  I have always disliked Carlotta and let me tell you, I love uh Minnie Driver.
• 34:39
  She's one of my favorite actresses.
• 34:41
  I love her and everything she does.
• 34:43
  like Carlotta is very much like the evil stepmother of Cinderella's story in every other version I've seen.
• 34:50
  Why did I find myself?
• 34:52
  sympathizing with her a little bit in this story.
• 34:55
  I think what's interesting is that this one was that like, so the picture you're the star of the show, you used to be the star of the show, and then somebody comes in and says,
• 35:04
  this other person is going to take your spot because I think she's better.
• 35:07
  And then try to like kill you multiple times.
• 35:11
  So I just thought myself like, and not that I think that she's a good person.
• 35:14
  I still think that she's still probably one of the villainous roles in this thing.
• 35:18
  But I found myself being like the, understand why you dislike Christine.
• 35:22
  which is an interesting perspective I don't think I've ever had before.
• 35:24
  Interesting.
• 35:26
  I...
• 35:27
  Hmm.
• 35:30
  I'm very similar in regards to it's never been my favorite role.
• 35:34
  It's never been my favorite part.
• 35:36
  I think that's just because vocally, ironically, I'm not an opera person, which is feels blasphemous to say because growing up, my voice was very much opera centered and it was
• 35:49
  the last thing that I wanted to sing.
• 35:51
  So arguably, if I was gonna get cast, it would be an operatic role.
• 35:58
  which is maybe just like why I also didn't like this role.
• 36:02
  I was like, no.
• 36:05
  But this show did feel a little bit, she didn't seem so, like she's clearly a diva, but she didn't seem so diva.
• 36:16
  Like it wasn't over, over, over the top.
• 36:19
  It was just diva.
• 36:21
  ah
• 36:23
  But like you were saying, of like arguably so correct.
• 36:27
  Like someone's blatantly trying to kill you.
• 36:29
  They brought in an ensemble person to take over your role who's never sung before.
• 36:36
  And you come back and you're getting like notes written to you and how like awful you are after you've had like this entire career at this opera house for decades.
• 36:51
  So I can understand.
• 36:54
  And also though, maybe I liked her voice more than previous.
• 37:02
  It was operatic, but it wasn't operatic to the point where I couldn't understand what she was saying.
• 37:06
  Her enunciation was very well done.
• 37:10
  um I don't wanna say her name wrong.
• 37:15
  Midori Marsh, correct?
• 37:17
  yeah, Midori Marsh I would say.
• 37:21
  yeah, it was just, it was very well done.
• 37:24
  It wasn't, the accent wasn't so thick that I couldn't understand what she was saying.
• 37:29
  And I think a lot of times that also plays into it.
• 37:33
  Cause I just, I'm like, you're not relatable at all.
• 37:36
  right.
• 37:37
  And I think that does change the dynamics of the show a little bit more.
• 37:40
  Not that it makes Christine hateable, but it makes like, again, I was like, I am I getting old?
• 37:46
  I understand why the person is like a little bit annoyed or like, let's be honest, he puts stuff in her, you know, to change her voice.
• 37:54
  And like for somebody who is an opera singer, your voice is your moneymaker.
• 37:58
  So the fact that she starts sounding like a frog, that would be
• 38:03
  incredibly damaging if that wasn't something that could be rectified.
• 38:08
  And again, I'm not a singer, but
• 38:11
  which I'm gonna sidetrack us for a moment.
• 38:14
  During that scene, do you recall seeing her spritz her spray?
• 38:21
  No, there wasn't one, right?
• 38:24
  I was like, so it makes no sense.
• 38:27
  And listeners, for those of you who may not be familiar, Carlotta loses her voice because the Phantom puts something, you know, supposedly the Phantom puts something in her vocal
• 38:39
  spray.
• 38:40
  and right when they start the show back up, she spritzes it in her mouth, which is what takes her voice away.
• 38:45
  In this version, there was no spray.
• 38:49
  She just went from singing perfectly fine to not.
• 38:54
  I couldn't understand what happened either, because I was waiting for the spray and I said, so I was watching her intently.
• 38:59
  was like, where's the spray, where's the spray?
• 39:00
  And all of she started sounding like a frog.
• 39:01
  And I was like, wait a second, why are you doing that?
• 39:04
  Because there's nothing physically happened that changed your voice in that scene.
• 39:09
  Honestly, part of me wonders if it was a flub, like if someone forgot a prop, because I also was watching and I was watching, what's his name?
• 39:20
  Her husband.
• 39:21
  ah I don't know if he's actually husband.
• 39:27
  Stand just a little bit to the stage right to the point where he was like kind of just like kind of in the wing, but not.
• 39:34
  And she looked over to at him before she went back to the bed.
• 39:39
  And I was like, is he supposed to have the spray and he doesn't?
• 39:45
  And so she just kept, obviously you just keep going.
• 39:48
  I'm so curious.
• 39:51
  So again, listeners, if you go or went to see this production in Detroit and you saw this scene, please, I want to know so bad if it was an intentional choice or if someone missed
• 40:06
  a prop.
• 40:07
  answer your question for you, I googled it.
• 40:10
  Fine.
• 40:12
  So apparently the spraying off her throat was only for the movie.
• 40:16
  In the original Book and Stage musical, this effect is generally attributed to the phantom's Ventriloquism rather than a physical spray.
• 40:22
  So he throws his voice to make her appear as if she's croaking.
• 40:25
  I didn't get that effect at all in the show.
• 40:28
  Cause they throw his voice from speakers and stuff like that in the show.
• 40:32
  Never once did it make, cause she's making that noise in the, like Madori's making the croaking sound on stage.
• 40:40
  It's clearly you can see her doing it.
• 40:41
  yeah, and her acting is telling us there's something wrong with my like she's she's like holding herself in a way that you're like, something's wrong with her.
• 40:51
  But I guess maybe the arguably it would be like, is there something wrong with me?
• 40:56
  Like, why is this the sound that is supposedly coming out of my mouth?
• 41:01
  But interesting, because I could have sworn, obviously not, ah that there was
• 41:08
  I mean, you know, from the back of the balcony, guess I couldn't have really seen, but.
• 41:14
  But this is also something interesting too.
• 41:16
  In the original book, Eric is uh a master level ventriloquist.
• 41:21
  And so he does, in the book, throw his voice.
• 41:24
  So maybe that's a calling card to the original text that we missed.
• 41:28
  But in the film, it makes sense because it actually is giving you a reason as to why it's happening.
• 41:34
  they should have adapted that.
• 41:35
  Because for everybody who doesn't know this, they actually kept the story intact.
• 41:39
  They kept everything intact, which we'll talk about in part two.
• 41:41
  the staging and stuff like that from the original touring production.
• 41:44
  And that's something I maybe would have changed.
• 41:46
  Like, have a simple bottle, it would have changed.
• 41:49
  It would have been easier to read than Ventriloquism which was never even brought up in the show.
• 41:56
  Yeah, that's a very...
• 41:59
  And maybe they don't do anything with it to create this confusion, like for this exact purpose, right?
• 42:06
  Like, we're not really sure what happened to her voice.
• 42:09
  We're not really sure.
• 42:11
  I don't know.
• 42:13
  But I would agree.
• 42:14
  Like, I would have preferred that there was something physical, um because otherwise we have no context of which...
• 42:24
  would allude that that is what's happening.
• 42:27
  But what's interesting when you think about ventriloquism is that what do you usually do?
• 42:32
  You throw your voice to a dummy, somebody you're controlling with your hands and stuff like that.
• 42:36
  Which if you think about the scene with Isaiah Bailey's The Phantom and the way he kind of controls Christine, that also makes sense.
• 42:45
  But I feel like I wish I would have had a line somewhere then that would have said that he was a ventriloquist.
• 42:49
  I think that it's like a deep cut, but it's like even deeper than a deep cut that I don't think most people are understanding what's happening.
• 42:57
  I have loved this show for almost two decades and I couldn't have told you that.
• 43:05
  Well, and like you mentioned, it is a tad confusing because there are vocal throats throughout the show.
• 43:11
  Like, I mean, obviously it's a sound effect, right?
• 43:14
  Where his voice is, um his voiceover is happening over the individual speaking for him on stage.
• 43:22
  And it's bouncing throughout the theater from different areas.
• 43:27
  And so...
• 43:28
  It's yeah, it's confusing because I feel like then that, like then he should be the one making the sound.
• 43:37
  I don't know.
• 43:39
  But it was very clearly not that way, so.
• 43:42
  Right, so maybe it needs to be fine-tuned a little bit here, people.
• 43:45
  That's what we're saying.
• 43:47
  Pay us the big bucks.
• 43:52
  On that note, we are running out of time.
• 43:54
  However, stay tuned for part two of our Phantom of the Opera discussion.
• 43:57
  Thank you again for joining us here in our box seats.
• 43:59
  Until next curtain call.