Latest / Booker Scott: Truth Be Told / You are Not Man Enough to be a Woman

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You are Not Man Enough to be a Woman · Booker Scott: Truth Be Told

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's 6 Eastern, 3 o'clock Pacific, from coast to coast
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: and around the world.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Is anybody paying attention?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: From America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: We now have black and white evidence that the FBI
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: interfered in the 2016 election.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It's time for The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: First of all, let me welcome you into the program
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: here on a Tuesday night and let you know that
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: right off the bat, This is going to be a
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  Speaker 2: little bit different hour here tonight. Sure, there are a
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  Speaker 2: lot of political things happening in our country, and some
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  Speaker 2: parts of the world, they seem to be on fire
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  Speaker 2: right now. But one thing I say quite a bit,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and I think it's true, our biggest battle that we
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  Speaker 2: find ourselves in right now is probably one for hearts
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and minds. I believe we try too hard to find
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: political or legislative solutions to for the ailments of our souls.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: One subject I've dealt with quite a bit here on
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: this program is the LGBTQIA + +, and I think
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: they've added an S in there now, in that community,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: in child sex trafficking and human trafficking. I've dealt with
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: all of those subjects. How could we not right now
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: when you take a look at culture and society? We
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: hear the stories of children being taken from parents to
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  Speaker 2: be transitioned to the opposite sex. Parents' rights are being
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  Speaker 2: taken away over the state, and the state being able
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  Speaker 2: to transition those children without the parents' consent. If you're
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  Speaker 2: like me, you probably think all of this has gone
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a little bit too far at this point. We started
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: with a few drag queen story times and The next
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: thing you know, a 13-year-old girl has been taken from
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  Speaker 2: her parents in Montana to cross a state line where
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  Speaker 2: the laws make it easier for that child to transition
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  Speaker 2: to the opposite sex. The next time those parents see
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  Speaker 2: their daughter, it's their son. And I don't know about you,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: but I want to learn more about that life because
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  Speaker 2: I just don't understand it. What makes a person feel
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: that they're someone they aren't, and feel it so strong
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that they go through extensive medical procedures, life-changing medication, to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: achieve what? Exactly what have they achieved when it's all done?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but I'm willing to learn, and I
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  Speaker 2: know I would like to know more. As someone who
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  Speaker 2: sees the world through a biblical lens, this one's a
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  Speaker 2: tough one for me to understand. But one thing that's
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  Speaker 2: easy for me to understand as a believer, as a Christian,
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  Speaker 2: that's compassion. At this moment in our Sodom and Gomorrah
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  Speaker 2: history of the 21st century, compassion and empathy may be
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  Speaker 2: our best tactic for converting those hearts and minds. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Booker Scott, and this is The Truth Be Told on
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  Speaker 2: America Out Loud Talk Radio. This hour is brought to
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  Speaker 2: you by sharewrite.org forward slash booker. Open enrollment is coming soon,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: and that means you're going to have to make some
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: choices about your health care. And I really encourage you
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: to go to ShareRight.org forward slash Booker and find out
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: more about health care done the right way. Plus, it's
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: going to save you 30 to 50 percent at ShareRight.org
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: forward slash Booker. In this hour, we're about to welcome
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a man to the show so that he can share
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  Speaker 2: his journey from a boy to a man. to husband
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  Speaker 2: and father, to a woman for 30 years, and back
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: to a man, and how that happened. Was it divine intervention,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: or did it have to do with him digging into Scripture,
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  Speaker 2: listening to sermons, going to church as a woman, so
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: that the Holy Spirit could change his heart? He's written
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: his story in a new book. It's called Not Man
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Enough to Be a Woman, Transgendered for 30 Years. No
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: lie lives forever. His name is William Allen. And William,
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  Speaker 2: thanks so much for coming and spending this time with
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: us and sharing your story with us so that we
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: have a better understanding of what this is all about.
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  Speaker 3: Booker, it's good to be with you, buddy. Thank you.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: You know, one place to start here is where I
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: first came to know you. And that was in a
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  Speaker 2: sermon that Pastor Willie Rice, Dr. Willie Rice at Calvary Church, did.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: And when was that? Was that back in May?
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  Speaker 3: That was May 19th.
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  Speaker 2: May 19th, you know exactly. So here's that sermon, a
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: clip from that sermon. This is when I became aware
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  Speaker 2: that you existed. So let's listen to this clip here
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  Speaker 2: with Dr. Willie Rice at Calvary Church.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: I got a letter the other day, kind of surprised me.
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  Speaker 4: It was from a person named Maggie. Maggie had written
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  Speaker 4: me a couple of times in the past, so it
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  Speaker 4: took me a moment, but I remember getting emails from
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  Speaker 4: Maggie and apparently Maggie said I'd even called her to
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  Speaker 4: answer a question. And more than that, Maggie had moved
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: to Clearwater a few years ago and said, I've been
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: coming to your church. And a few years ago, I
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  Speaker 4: came to be baptized. You baptized me as Maggie. You
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  Speaker 4: didn't know any better, but I'm not Maggie. She said,
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  Speaker 4: in 1961, when I was born, I was born a male.
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  Speaker 4: My name is William, and I lied to you, and
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  Speaker 4: I've been lying to a lot of people, including myself.
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  Speaker 4: William said, for 30 years, I've lived as a woman.
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  Speaker 4: I can't explain it. I don't understand it. I got
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: married as a young man. It was a happy marriage,
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: a good woman. And I suppressed that desire. And then
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  Speaker 4: it came back and it ruined my marriage. It cost
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: me my family. I was estranged with my parents. But
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  Speaker 4: I'd settled down to a mostly comfortable life. And almost
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  Speaker 4: nobody knew. You didn't know. I know you didn't know.
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  Speaker 4: And I thought I was a Christian even. Told people
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  Speaker 4: I'd asked Jesus into my heart. But the truth is
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: I never loved to read the Bible. I never had
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  Speaker 4: a thirst for the things of God. couple years ago
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  Speaker 4: she said I was listening to you preach and something
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  Speaker 4: began to happen in my heart I began to feel
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  Speaker 4: the Holy Spirit stirring and convicting me I began to
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: watch a lot of it online and but there were
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: videos and I went back and watched all the videos
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: they had stored up in the archives and the website
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  Speaker 4: and then You know, I started listening to other preachers.
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  Speaker 4: And fortunately, Maggie was listening to really solid Bible preachers.
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  Speaker 4: She listened to them. I mean, some strong ones. And
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  Speaker 4: I began to listen to those and they made me
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  Speaker 4: mad at first. But the more I began to listen,
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  Speaker 4: the more I knew they were telling me the truth.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: And I began to hunger to know God. And I
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  Speaker 4: knew I needed to repent. Maggie said, the day came.
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  Speaker 4: When as I began to listen and think about all
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: that had happened in my life, I realized I needed
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  Speaker 4: to repent and turn to God that I'd never been saved.
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  Speaker 4: Maggie wrote me this letter and said, I started to
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: see all the people that I had deceived as a
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  Speaker 4: pretend woman. And I saw the relationships with them as
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  Speaker 4: false and undeserved. I'm reading the letter Maggie sent me.
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  Speaker 4: I don't have time to read it all. In fact, um,
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  Speaker 4: Later on, maybe we'll find a way to communicate because
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: it's so much in this story. Maggie said, I grew
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  Speaker 4: more and more disheartened with my own lifestyle. I saw
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: my lifestyle.
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  Speaker 5: For what it was. I saw my sin for what
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  Speaker 5: it was. I broke down crying.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, ugly crying because I knew what a vile
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  Speaker 4: person I'd been all my life.
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  Speaker 5: My desires no longer mattered.
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  Speaker 4: I cried out to God, confessing my sins and who
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  Speaker 4: I was. Now I knew I needed a savior. I
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: repented and asked for forgiveness. I turned away from it all.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: I wanted to be pleasing in his eyes. I wanted
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: to put it all on Jesus and I gave up
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: my life to him whatever required. A level of peace
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  Speaker 4: that I have never experienced came over me. Suddenly nothing
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  Speaker 4: in the world mattered any longer, at least not like
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: what Jesus had done for me. I now love reading
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  Speaker 4: and studying the Bible. I pray a lot. I love
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  Speaker 4: talking to others about Christ. And I take any opportunity
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: to present the gospel. The Holy Spirit is living in
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  Speaker 4: me and is changing me. And that's when I knew
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: I wanted to fully repent, detransition. I wanted to glorify God. Maggie,
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  Speaker 4: not Maggie anymore, it's William. William. Had to go through surgeries,
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  Speaker 4: which people don't want to do. They want to do
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  Speaker 4: the other kind, but they don't do it this kind.
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  Speaker 4: I had to go through surgeries. Some things can never
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  Speaker 4: be undone, but I changed my social security. I had
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: to go through all the legal processes. I had to
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: go back through it all, but I was determined that
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  Speaker 4: I would repent and I would find who God really
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  Speaker 4: made me to be. And then William, and it's a
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  Speaker 4: personal letter, but I asked William, Is it okay if
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  Speaker 4: I read that?
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  Speaker 5: He said, it is. I says, okay, if I use
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  Speaker 5: your name, I don't have to. He said, no, no,
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  Speaker 5: I want you to.
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  Speaker 4: I'm writing a book. I'm going to tell my story.
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  Speaker 4: This has been a long time coming. William said this.
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  Speaker 4: Will you forgive me, first of all, because I didn't
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  Speaker 4: tell you who it really was.
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  Speaker 5: I said, well, of course.
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  Speaker 4: And then William said, I know this is a sensitive question.
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  Speaker 4: Would you baptize me as William, your brother in Christ?
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  Speaker 4: Because now I've been saved.
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  Speaker 5: And I want to follow Jesus.
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  Speaker 4: So tonight, out at the beach, William's going to get
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  Speaker 4: baptized as somebody who wants to follow Jesus.
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  Speaker 5: And here's what I want to.
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  Speaker 3: Say to you.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know what your story is, but we have
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  Speaker 4: all messed up. We've all believed lies a time or two.
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  Speaker 4: about ourselves, about others, and that's all an idol is.
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  Speaker 4: It's a lie.
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  Speaker 5: You believe some lies about who you are.
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  Speaker 2: And William, I remember that sermon like it was yesterday,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm sure that you probably do too. I know
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  Speaker 2: at the end of it, I had tears in my eyes.
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  Speaker 2: And on that night when you got baptized at the beach,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I made sure that I drove out to the beach
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  Speaker 2: that night to support you in getting baptized. And you
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  Speaker 2: didn't know I was there. You didn't care, but I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to be there for that moment because I was
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  Speaker 2: moved by your story because we need so many more
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  Speaker 2: stories like yours. And let's tell your story. We heard
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  Speaker 2: a lot there from Pastor Willie, but let's fill in
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  Speaker 2: some of the blanks that he didn't get into. And
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  Speaker 2: As we go and look at your story, let's go
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  Speaker 2: back to being a child. When was it that you
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: first felt in some way that maybe you were supposed
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: to be a girl instead of a boy? When was that?
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I want to clarify something. Because a lot of people,
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: especially today, you hear people saying, I identify as a
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: girl or a woman today. Or I used to hear
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: the old, I feel like a woman trapped in a
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: man's body. I'm really the other gender or the other sex.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: I never felt that. I want to differentiate this. From
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: the earliest time in my life that I can remember,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: I simply wanted to be a girl. I wished I
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: had been born a girl. I can't explain. And this
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: is back around age four or five, far back as
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I can remember. At the time, I, you know, at
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  Speaker 3: that age, I understood there were differences between boys and girls.
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  Speaker 3: I knew my dad was a male. I knew my
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  Speaker 3: mama was a female. And I wanted to be a female.
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  Speaker 3: I had a lot of cousins, boy cousins and girl cousins.
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  Speaker 3: I knew I was a boy. But I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: be a girl. I can't say that I felt like
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  Speaker 3: a girl. I just wished I had been. I don't
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  Speaker 3: know why. And at that age, too, I certainly wasn't
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: aware of all the biological differences, of course. But with
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: whatever information I had at the time, for some reason,
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  Speaker 3: I wanted to be a girl rather than a boy.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from four or five years old. You felt that
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  Speaker 2: inside of you that you didn't feel like a girl.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: You didn't feel like you were a girl. You knew
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the difference, but you wanted to be a girl. And
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: is that gender dysphoria? What exactly is that? Is there
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  Speaker 2: a term for it?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Back when I had gotten a little bit, quite
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: a bit older, like in my twenties, eventually I was
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: seeing a psychologist and the diagnosis they had back then
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: was called gender identity disorder. Today it's called gender dysphoria.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: And gender identity disorder was listed as a mental disorder
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: in the DSM-3, the Diagnostic Statistics Manual. It's what psychiatrists
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: use for differentiating between all the different mental disorders and
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: treatments and such. Today in the DSM-5, it's called gender dysphoria.
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  Speaker 3: And it's not so much listed as a mental disorder.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: It focuses more on the person's identity. And so I
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: think to a degree, even the DSM has gone woke.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Because they've even changed certain designations like, you know, when
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: we're born, we're male or female.
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  Speaker 5: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: There's a choice of two.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: They've changed those words now to gender assigned at birth,
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  Speaker 3: you know, male assigned at birth or, female assigned at birth.
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  Speaker 2: It leaves it open, right? They leave it open, don't they?
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  Speaker 2: So that it can be changed easily later on. So
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: as a young man, you get married, you get married
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: as a young man and, uh, you know, you're in
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: a marriage and eventually, uh, somewhere along the way, you
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: decide to become a woman. And what was that like
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: at that point in your life? What was going on
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: with you mentally?
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Well, You know, in reality, that just can't happen. You know,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: and I got to say, I see people today that
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: are doing these things, and it just really bugs me.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: And I look at them sometimes thinking, man, these guys are,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: these people are weird. You know, why in the world
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: would they want to, and then all of a sudden
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: I come back, oh, wait, hold on. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, yeah.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Did you consider yourself ever weird, or did you perceive
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that people thought that you were weird?
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, of course I was. From day one, I knew
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: I was weird, and I knew I had to hide it,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: as a child even. I knew whatever it was that
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: I was feeling, and I had dress-up time and all that.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: I acted out. I knew that there was something telling
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: me that was wrong, and I hid it. And I
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: dealt with it the best I could. And growing up,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: it's not like I was playing with Barbies or anything
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: like that. I was doing all the boy stuff. But
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: in secret, I would have my own dress-up time, pretend time.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: William, were you raised in a family of churchgoers?
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Of churchgoers, yes. I can't necessarily say that my parents
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: were Christians. It's hard for me to know that for sure.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: But we did go to church. I was raised in
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: the Methodist church.
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like any of those things that popped
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: in your mind, like, this is wrong, did that come
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: from your early indoctrination in church? Or did that come
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: from your parents? Or was that something just within you
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: that says, hey, I'm a little boy, but I want
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: to be a girl, and this isn't right. Where does
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: that come from in a kid that's five or six?
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I think it was just something internal. It was just
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: something I inherently knew wasn't right. And because I knew
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: I had to hide it, that was one reason I
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: knew that it wasn't right. And I don't think it
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: was because of any message I got from church or
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: because of anything, any documentation from my own parents or anything,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: because they didn't know about it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You were, you were playing dress up and hiding
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: it from them.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Because, because you felt inside that it was wrong. And because,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: and because of that, you hid what you were doing.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: So I get that. So take us, take us, yeah,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: take us into your marriage and then, you know, the
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: transition into becoming Maggie. Where does that start? Where does,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: how does that happen?
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Right. Right. Well, yeah, that whole thing dogged me for
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: most of my life into early adulthood. Getting through university
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: was difficult because it was just on my mind all
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: the time, this thing. And if you had known me before,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: you never would have guessed that I would ever do
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: something like that. I mean, I was not effeminate and
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I wasn't gay.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: You were a masculine man and you're not gay. You're
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: still not gay, are you? See, that's something someone like
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: me needs to understand because we just don't know. We
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: don't know what any of this means.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: There are so many variations.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: We just wanted to stop. We just wanted to stop.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: In fact, we're up against a break, so we're going
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: to come right back and continue this conversation. We're talking
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: to William Allen. He transitioned as a young man to
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: a woman where he stayed for 30 years. And you
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: just heard his story there from Pastor Willie. We're going
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to continue with his story here in just a minute.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: More The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott in minutes
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  Speaker 1: on America Out Loud.
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  Speaker 2: Someone asked me the other day, how do you even
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  Speaker 2: I don't know that we can the way the news
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  Speaker 2: moves so fast. But you know what I told them?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I said, I've been checking out PolyMarket a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: It's extremely insightful. You're basically watching how thousands of people
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: are betting on outcomes, political elections, big policy moves, even
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: events you would expect. It's kind of like a live
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: pulse on what the public actually believes. And you can
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: see trends before they even happen and before they even
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: make the mainstream news. For me, it's not about gambling.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: It's about understanding the probabilities and where the momentum is shifting.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: If you like or love the news like I do,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: maybe you're a news junkie, but you want to take
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: a little deeper look at what people really think, go
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to Polymarket. It's a fascinating tool. Polymarket.com. Welcome back to
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: The Truth Be Told here on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: This hour brought to you by ShareRight.org forward slash booker.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Don't forget to go to americaoutloud.news and see all the
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: great content there, additional podcasts that you do not hear
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: on America Out Loud Talk Radio. I'm Booker Scott. We're
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: being joined tonight by an author now who just wrote
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: a book. I'm going to give you information about how
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: you can find that book a little bit later. William,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: let's get back into the conversation. When we went to
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: the break there, I was trying to get you to
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: start talking about the transition. You were married, and at
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: that point in your life, you decided to go ahead
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: and go through that. And as Willie mentioned in the
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: sermon there, that you hurt a lot of people, and
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: you admit that you hurt a lot of people. I
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: have to imagine that your wife was a casualty in this.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. A lot of people were. My father, my mother,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of people were. And Yeah, I had been
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: dealing with this situation and really once I had moved
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: out to the Pacific Northwest where I had a job
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: after university, I started to actually explore this a lot
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: more and found out that there were other people like me.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that most of my life. And that
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: was a huge relief. And finding them kind of opened
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: up the possibilities. It opened up some exploration on my part.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: And As I was doing that, one day out of
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: the blue, I met a girl and we hit it off.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: And it was one of those things where we each
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: knew that we had just met the person we were
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: going to marry. And several months later, we were married.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: And the greatest thing was that when this happened, all
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: those desires that I had, they went away. They're gone.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I thought I was cured.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you became cured for a moment in time there,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: when you find the person that will be your wife.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Was that a relief to you?
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, absolutely. And at the time, too, I had
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: always thought I was a Christian. Like I said, I
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: was raised up in the church, and there were key
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: moments in my life where I kind of realized, you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: maybe I wasn't saved. And I did some soul-searching, and...
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: said a prayer, you know, one that's often called the
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: sinner's prayer and, and Hey, I'm saved now for real
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: this time. And I got to tell you, I was,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I've been saved four or five times.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It only takes once though. You know, it only takes
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: one good one. It only takes one good one.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I got married and, uh, for
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: a while, for a year and a half or so,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: it was just fantastic marriage. We, we were hitting it off.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: We were just doing great. And, uh, uh, after about
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: a year and a half, two years, it, it, My
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: old nemesis came back with a vengeance. It was kind
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: of like it was an entity, and it hadn't gotten
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: any attention for the past couple of years. And so
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: it really took a prominent position in my mind and
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: my life. And I got to the point where I
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: just couldn't deal with that anymore. And there came a
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: point where I had to confide in my wife and
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: tell her what was going on. told her I thought
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I'd had it lit, but I didn't, obviously.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And how did that go? I'm curious how that conversation went.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Not well. Oh, yeah. She was a godly woman. Just
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: the real, you know, stereotypical girly girl. And she wanted
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: that role. She wanted to raise children. And she had
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: pinned her whole future on me. And, man, it was
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: just awful that, you know, what I did. Um, but
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: dealing with what I was dealing with, there was just
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: no way that we could go on. And of course she,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: she filed for divorce and I can't blame her. I
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: didn't want it, but, uh, it, it, it was clear
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: that it just was not going to work out. Obviously.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How soon, how soon after that divorce do you
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: start transitioning? And we're talking what year here? This is what,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: 35 years ago, roughly.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: That was, uh, Well, I started the transition in 93,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and I think we got divorced in 89. So it
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: was a couple, three years.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, in between.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: So we actually made the decision, yeah. But, you know,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: and in between there, there was the tail end of
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: the divorce there. There was a real close call with suicide.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: I had just lost my wife, and basically that was
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: my whole life at that point, you know. And I
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: was dealing with this thing that I thought I was
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: rid of, and man, it was bad.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: So the divorce almost drives you to suicide because you
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: identified your life and your person with that marriage, and
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: that marriage is over, and it takes you to the
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: depths of depression. And now in two or three years,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: you identify as a woman and become a woman.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Well, again, I don't want to ever say that I
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: identified as a woman. I know a lot of people
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: say that. And I never say that I identified as
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: a woman. Again, I wanted to be a woman. Now,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I knew that was impossible. But there were steps that
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: I could take to at least live presenting as a woman. And,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: you know... I get it. There's so many dudes in
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: dresses out there, and it's awfully clear and obvious that
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: they're just dudes in dresses. Now, there are some that
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: present very well, and you wouldn't know. A lot of them,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: as soon as they open their mouth, the jig is up, though.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, correct.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: And I feel like, whiz, if you're going to do this,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: come on, put some effort into it and go see
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: a voice coach or something, which is what I did.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: And I had really worked on my presentation. This is
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: after I had finally made the decision to do this.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: And I want to note, too, that in my counseling,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: I talked to different psychiatrists. I talked to a lot
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: of different pastors as well. My initial goal was to
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: make this go away. And I was talking to people
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: that knew something about the subject. But I told them
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: up front, I said, I don't want to do this.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I want this whole thing to go away.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: And listening to your story, it's almost like you always
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: wanted it to go away. But it wouldn't, would it?
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Even when you were a little boy, you knew it
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: was wrong. You shouldn't be doing it. But you were
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: still playing dress up in hiding. And then as a
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: young adult, you still want it. I just want it
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: to go away. Stop it. But for some reason, you
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: couldn't do it, even with a lot of help from
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: other people.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: No. Yeah. Couldn't do it. So I finally realized that
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I'm either going to go through this change or I'm
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: going to wind up dead. And so I had been
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: playing with the presentation and I had gotten a lot
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: of compliments from people. And I did go see a
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: voice coach and was able to modify my own voice.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: And for a couple of years, I had to be
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: conscious of it and make it, but it eventually became natural.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: I didn't have to think about it. And just in contrast,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: I can tell you, I still have, I just completed
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: the detransition last October. I can tell you that even
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: at this point, I'm still having to make a conscious
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: effort to keep my voice more masculine at this point.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Well, you were, you were using the other voice for
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: 30 years.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And I'm assuming that you worked also during those 30 years.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: How did, how did that go? Did the people that
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: you worked with know you and believe you to be
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: a woman as Maggie?
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Well, uh, I was going to leave my company and
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: transition and start over someplace else. I had told my
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: boss about it cause I needed to use him as
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: a reference. Um, through a series of events, the corporate,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: all the corporate people found out about it and they
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: called me and they summoned me into an office and
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: they sat me down and told me they wanted me
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: to stay and that they would support me. And they, they,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: they made an offer and just, uh, it was kind
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: of hard to resist. So I did stay, I transitioned
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: on that, on the job and, uh, had a lot
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: of support from a lot of people. So obviously the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: people there knew, um, Now, outside of the company, the
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: customers we dealt with, the vendors that I worked with,
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: and just new friends that I made after I had transitioned,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: they didn't know. And it might sound like I'm bragging
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: a little bit, but I was passing. And people accepted
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: me for who and what I was. appeared to be.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Willie just talked about it, too, in the clip that
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I played here in this hour, talking about you coming
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: to church as Maggie and being baptized even as Maggie.
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: So you passed.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: You pass really well.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: And you know that they, you know, people that come
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: to be baptized, they're, they're, they ask questions. They want
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: to make sure that you understand. Yeah, exactly. And, and,
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: and so they talked with me and asked me the
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: questions and stuff and they didn't, they didn't know I
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: was deceiving them. And, uh, of course at the time,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I didn't see that wrong to me. I was just
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: who I was at the time. And, um, But yeah,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: he baptized me under false pretenses, obviously. For one thing,
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: I wasn't a Christian at the time, and also I
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: wasn't who I said I was. Yeah, right.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: But I just bring that up. I bring that up
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: because you passed. You were saying that you passed, and
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: you obviously passed. You passed in church to be baptized
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: as a woman, and you came to that congregation on
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: somewhat a regular basis, I'm assuming.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I had other jobs. I
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: moved on to other jobs and careers, and nobody knew
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: unless I told them. And even then, sometimes they didn't
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: believe me. But, of course, my family, they still probably
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: saw the old me, but some of them accepted me
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: and some didn't.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: And I know another part of the story, William, and
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: maybe a painful part of the story, is you being
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: estranged from your father. And you told me before we
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: had this conversation here on the radio when we were
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: talking on the telephone that the name of the book
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: comes really from your father. Can you talk about that? Yeah.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: In 1993, it was in 1992, actually. I had gone
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: home for Christmas. A few months prior to that, I
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: had written a letter telling my parents what I was
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: getting ready to do. And I realized it didn't, I
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: couldn't convey much emotion or, uh, sense of urgency or
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: anguish in that letter. So I recorded the tape and, uh,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: sent that to my folks. Turns out my dad refused
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: to listen to the tape and they called me up
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: and said, what's going on? And I just could not,
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: I couldn't say it. He started playing 20 questions with
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: me and he finally nailed it. And, uh, said, we'll
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: come home for Christmas and we'll talk about it. So
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: I did come home and it was the last night
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: that I was there. I had to go back to
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Seattle where I worked at the time the next morning.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: And so we sat down, we had this conversation and
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: it started off okay. He was asking some genuine, sincere
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: questions and But then it started turning ugly. And, you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: my dad, he had been proud of his boy. You know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: that's my boy, Eagle Scout. That's my boy, just pilot's license.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: He just graduated university. That's my boy. I'm proud of
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: my boy. And all of a sudden, this boy wanted
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: to be a girl. And that had to be devastating.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: I get it. And honestly, I can't say I would
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: have handled this any differently. But he, during this talk,
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: and he was just getting so, so frustrated. He went
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: off on this diatribe about his sisters. He had six sisters.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: And he talked about their virtues and just how wonderful
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: they were, women in general, really, and how in many
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: ways that women are superior to men. And in his frustration,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: he just couldn't quite get out what he wanted to say,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: but he did spit out some words that kind of
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: got my attention. And what he said was, you're just
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: not man enough to be a woman. And at the time,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I felt like chuckling, but that was obviously not the
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: right thing to do. And the conversation went downhill from there.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: But when I started writing this book, that popped back
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: into my head. And I just thought, well, that's the
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: book title.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great title.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: The title itself, the words are kind of nonsensical, but
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: I still thought it made a good book title.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does. And I'm going to tell everyone
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: where they can find that book. It will also be
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: available in the shop at americaoutloud.news. So if you're listening
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: to this on a podcast after the live broadcast, then
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: while you're doing that, you can go to americaoutloud.com or. news,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: either one of those. Go in the shop and then
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: look for all of the books that are there from
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: all the different authors that you hear right here on
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the network. Before we come up to another break, Let's
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: get back to your transition. You have the conversation with
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: your dad, and now you go through it medically and
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: in every way, don't you? You change your name from,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: were you William to begin with?
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I was William to begin with, yeah.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that is your name. So you go from
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: William to Maggie.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: To Margaret, and then Maggie came from that, yeah.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you even changed Margaret's name to Maggie. So
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: take us through that transition there 30 years ago. You
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: started to talking about your experience at work, how they
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: kept you and were supportive. And you become a female
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: and you pass. Everybody thinks you are a female. But
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I guess at some point you decide, I'm still not happy.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: This isn't what I want. No, isn't it?
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Well, it was a long time, but no, I was happy.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: The process involved the hormones, which really do a number
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: on your body. I mean, a lot of things happened.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Skin texture changed, fat redistributed, hair texture changed, improved breasts.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: A lot of things happened. And I had gotten electrolysis
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: to get rid of my beard. So my beard was
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: taken out one follicle at a time. about 100 hours
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: of that. There's obviously the surgeries. And at the time,
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: there was a set of standards in place that you
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: had to go through. And one of the biggest requirements
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: was that you have to live in the opposite role
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: for a year before you can have that surgery. And
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: the process was designed to weed people out.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Do they do that anymore, William?
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: No, it's been completely thrown out the window.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew they used to do that.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: It's crazy. Yeah. So I did that and did my
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: ear in a couple, two, three more months. And I
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: did have that final surgery that's called a vaginoplasty. And
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: it's pretty well accomplished. This is back in 1994 is
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: when I had that surgery. And it's pretty well accomplished.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: They say the gynecologist can't even tell the difference on
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: A visual inspection. So after that happened, I tell you, Booker,
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: I was happy. I was living and presenting as a
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: woman and eventually had moved on to other companies. I
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: lived and worked in three different countries. And like I said,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: people just didn't know. After a few years, too, I
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: started getting attention from men and I kind of started
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: to like it. And I dated a little bit. and
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: I had other jobs. I didn't have any serious relationships
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: or anything. There was, there came a point where, you know,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: having been on the hormones for a few years, like
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: I said, getting attention from men. And I realized I,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: I still notice women, but it's more I'm paying attention
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: to what they're wearing or how they got their hair
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: done and, you know, how their gait, how they're walking.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: And how they're communicating.
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: Things like that.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: So that you can dress like them, do makeup like them,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: and walk like them, but not in a way of
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: being attractive to them. And it doesn't really sound like
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: you're necessarily or were necessarily attracted to men either, but
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: it was maybe something that made you feel good that
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: you were getting the attention that you craved being a woman.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and going into it, I had heard that if
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: you're straight to begin with, you'll most likely be straight afterwards. Now,
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: if you think of the word straight, meaning an opposite
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: sex attraction, if I was a guy and I was
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: attracted to women at the time, I go through this
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: in sort of a woman and still opposite sex attraction,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: meaning I would then be attracted to men. Okay, there's
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: that scenario. The other scenario, if you're gay to begin with,
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: you'll most likely still be gay afterwards. So it was
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: up in the air. Who knew? I didn't know what
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: was going to happen. I didn't necessarily... want to still
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: be attracted to women because I've been making me a lesbian.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: And that's a whole other set of issues.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: But William, it doesn't sound like this is about sex though,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: is it? No, no, it's not at all. It's that's
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: not what I'm getting from this.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's, it's not there. There's, there's, there's sexual attraction
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: to one gender or another. And then there's who you
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: think you are, how you want to live, how you
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: see yourself and, And.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: We're going to get into a break here, but I
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: want to get into that conversation with everything that we
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: see going on here in the 21st century in America,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: in Western civilization. And it's disturbing. It's something that we
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: deal with on this show and this network quite a bit.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: And I want to talk about that with William Allen
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: coming up.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: More truth in minutes on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 39:18
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• 40:18
  Speaker 2: I'm Booker Scott. This is The Truth Be Told. We
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: are having an interesting conversation here with William Allen, who
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: transitioned from a young man in his 20s, I guess
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: about 30, who transitioned to a female who stayed a
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: female for 30 years. And as you just heard, he
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: was happy as a female, but he didn't stay happy forever.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Something happened along the way that made William look for
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: something more. So let's get into the conversation there, William.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: What was it that made you look for something else?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: You had looked to become a girl at one point,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: and then a female, a woman, and now you're back
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: to a man. And it's an incredible story. So take
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: us there.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Well, for 20-plus years, yeah, like I said, I was
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: happy and lived and worked in three different countries, settled
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: into a very comfortable lifestyle. And in 2015... I came
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: back to Clearwater from the Pacific Northwest. My father was terminal. Now,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: we hadn't spoken in 23 years at the time. I
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: was still in touch with my mother, though. And it's
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: not to say that she approved of or liked what
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I did, but she still loved her child, and so
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: we still talked. But we did it clandestinely. Dad never
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: really knew about it.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: So you don't talk to your dad for 24 years.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: He's so upset, so angry. that his son became a daughter.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: And there were some others in the family, too. It's
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: a very large family. He was one of eight. And
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: so I've got a lot of aunts and uncles, a
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: lot of cousins. And not all of the family accepted
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: it either. They didn't all affirm me. Some did. So
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: it was nice to be able to still be in
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: touch with some of that family. But yeah, in 2015,
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: he was coming to the end of about a three-year
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: fight with cancer. He didn't have much longer to live.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: And my mother, too, was just starting to get pretty
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: sick as well. And I had told her that, you know,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: at any time I'm ready to come down and and,
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: you know, take care of her. And he was pretty
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: much in the hospital full time. Now, I'm an only child.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: I'm the only only child in the whole family. So
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I didn't have any siblings that were taking care of them.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: But there was another aunt and uncle. here in town
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: that was helping out best they could. And it was,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I had talked to my mother one night and she
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: finally agreed to let me come down and start taking
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: care of her because she was having a hard time
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: getting around and she couldn't take care of him anymore either.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: And plus knowing that dad was terminal, I'd have to
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: be here anyway. So the very next morning I got
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: a call from my aunt and she said that my
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: mother passed during the night. Wait, what? You mean dad? No,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: it was my mother. Totally unexpected.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so now you're left with your dad and his daughter, you.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. So I hopped a plane and got into
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: town the next day. My aunt and uncle picked me up. Now,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: this particular aunt and uncle, they had never seen Maggie before.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: And We had only resumed communications maybe a couple of
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: years before that as well. So it was awkward for everybody, obviously.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: And so I got home. Mom was in the morgue.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Dad was in the hospital and pretty much out of it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: So my aunt and I were spending quite a bit
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: of time at the hospital. Now, she would go into
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: the room with Dad. I wouldn't. I didn't want to
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: cause any grief for him, especially considering the state he
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: was in in his last days. And she was so
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: hoping that I'd be able to go in. And there
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: was a nurse there that was working quite a bit
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: with them. And she knew that he had a son.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: So when I showed up, she was confused. And so
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: my aunt explained the whole story to her. Well, that
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: nurse and my aunt conspired lovingly and tried to get
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: me to go in. And I really did not want
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: to cause him any grief. And there was an element too,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: if I didn't, I knew he was not going to
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: be the same man that I knew he was going
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: to look a lot different. Sure.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: A quarter of a century.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And I really wonder, would rather have remembered him, uh,
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: from when we were still good, you know? And, uh,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: so we, they came up with a plan and, and,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: and I made him a deal. I said, look, if
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: you can, if you tell him that it's Maggie, that's here,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: not William, make sure he understands that. And if he
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: can't answer you verbally, tell him to blink his eyes
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: twice if he wants to see me. And I'm thinking,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: this is not going to happen. There's no way. I
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: thought that was a safe bet. So they went in
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: there and my aunt apparently told him that Maggie was
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: here and made sure he understood. And she asked him
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: if he wanted to see me and he blinked his
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: eyes twice. She came out and said, he blinked his
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: eyes twice. I couldn't believe it. So at that point,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: the nurse calls out from inside the room and says,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: he just said, send her in. Wow. Okay. This is crazy.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: So I went in and it was, uh, very awkward.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: It was a stressful thing for me and I'm sure
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: for him too. And, uh, I get choked up when
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: I start thinking about it.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Did you get, did you get any, did you get
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: any resolution from that at all? What came from it?
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: It was a, it was a deathbed reconciliation.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: We, uh, I went in, I saw him, I went
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: up to him and, uh, held his hand and, and, uh,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: I told him, I said, whatever happened between us is
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: in the past. And if you want, I'll help you
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: get through this. And he squeezed my hand and, uh,
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: Then about a day and a half, two days, yeah,
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: he passed. So that was just an amazing thing. And
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: my aunt and I are still in awe about that today.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: And I never thought that would happen. The crazy thing
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: too is, well, not crazy, but kind of a neat
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: thing that happened. In 1993, when I had had that
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: conversation with my folks, the next day they had to
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: drive me to the airport again. and dad drove and
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: of course not a word was spoken and when i
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: got to the airport and got out my mother got
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: out as well and she gave me a hug and
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: she whispered in my ear she said nothing is forever
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: so all those years those 23 years you know he
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: would never he would never speak to me and.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: And uh But mom was right, though, in the end.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Turns out she was right.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing is forever, and mom told you that.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: And I came to realize, too, that if she hadn't
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: died when she did, I would not have been there
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: in time.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: To be with dad.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And nor if she had died after him, you
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: may have never had the opportunity to even have that reconciliation.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: So it's amazing how God works in our lives.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: And things like that, a lot of times people don't
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: even recognize if they would just step back a little bit,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: they could say, hey, that's God working. And for some reason,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: we don't always pay attention to it. We don't keep
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: ourselves quiet and still enough to do that. So let's
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: take your story now to where you transition back to William.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: That's where you are now. And it took a lot
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: of years to get here. I assume that, you know,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: you said it was October of 2023 when you detransitioned.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: That was when I completed the process.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: You completed the process.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. From 2015 on, I had to be here for
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: at least a year because probate took that long to
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: settle my parents' estate. And so during that time, I
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: started going to this church that my uncle was going
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: to at the time, which was Calvary. And, you know,
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: I had gone to a lot of churches in my life.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: And from early childhood, I was raised in the church.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: I never really listened to sermons or anything. A lot
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: of them were just speaking gibberish. Nothing ever made any sense.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: And so I'm going to church at Calvary. And Pastor Willie,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: he had announced, it was probably 2016, I think. He
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: announced they were going to do the beach baptism. And
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: I thought, well, I've never been baptized. I was baptized,
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: supposedly baptized as a child, as a Methodist, but that's
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: not really baptism. And I thought, well, let's just go
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: do this. Cause I think I'm a Christian. You know, I,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: I believed in Jesus and I believed in God and
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: I believe that Jesus died for my sins. And, and, uh,
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: I had the basics, basic understanding. And so I went
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: and got baptized. Well, obviously I kept going to Calvary and, uh,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: After a few more months, the things Pastor Willie was
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: saying started to make some sense. I started taking notice
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: of a lot of things that were said. And one
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: thing I realized, that all the pastors and preachers, TV
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: personalities that I had heard before, none of them were
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: ever talking about sin and hell and repentance. It was
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: all feel good, you know. God is great. You're great.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: God wants what's great for you, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: I had always heard that Jesus died for your sins.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: I'd always heard that cavalierly, nonchalantly. And that's kind of
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: how it resided in my head. I had more of
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: an intellectual belief, I think, than anything else. And it
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: was a blind faith, really. But listening more to Pastor Willie,
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: I started hearing some things that initially weren't necessarily what
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: I wanted to hear. And even so, because of that,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: somehow that lent credibility to what he was saying. And
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: I started paying more attention. And at the same time,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I became a YouTube addict. And I started stumbling onto
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: videos from John MacArthur and Ray Comfort, Todd Friel, Steve Lawson,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: Bodie Balcom, Marcy Sproul. And the thing that I noticed
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: was they're all preaching the same thing. Certainly the same
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: core issues anyway. And I had never really understood this
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: whole repentance and hell and sin and the relationship. I
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: didn't understand any consequences, right? And I started getting into apologetics.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: I learned about evidence for God, a creator God, and
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: for Jesus. And I heard somebody talking about, I think
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: it was Frank Turek, and I heard him talking about
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: not just evidence for all this, but overwhelming evidence. And
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking, wow, my head wanted to explode. So I
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: started exploring that and looking at real scientific evidence and
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: and archaeological evidence, DNA, I mean, real hardcore stuff. And
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: I no longer had just a blind faith. I had
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: a faith based on evidence. And I think that kind
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: of helped push me along. And I got to say, listen,
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: looking back on this thing, I can't help but think
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: how dim-witted I was that I just could not get
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: this for so long. It took so long. And I
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: also have to just thank God and praise God for
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: his patience, man. It took a while.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: And we heard, we heard there with Willie's clip, how
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: this ended, where it culminated. And that was with the
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: beach baptism, where you decided that it was time to
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: publicly display that I am William. And I thought, you know,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: the thing that made me tear up in that sermon
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: was the words that you said, I want to, look
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: at you as a Christian brother. And that was really strong,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: and those were such good words. And as we started
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: this hour here tonight, I really wanted people to have
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: a better understanding so that there could be maybe some
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: compassion and some empathy so that we can change hearts
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: and minds instead of just trying to legislate or put
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: some type of policy from a politician that We need
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: to have a caring, compassionate heart. But at the same time,
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: there are some wacky things going on in our country
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: right now. And I know you stand against those things
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: that are going on with the transgender. We've got about
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: a minute or a minute and a half. So I
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: want you to talk about how that LGBTQ community has
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: been hijacked, what they are doing to our children, and
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: then also tell everybody— how they can get your book also.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: Well, uh, after, you know, I had come to Christ,
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: obviously I realized eventually I needed to detransition. And I
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: got to tell you, that was a three-year process. And
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: even finding a surgeon was hard because every time I
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: talked to somebody and told them that I was detransitioning,
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: nobody wanted to have anything to do with me. It
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: took me twice as long to find a surgeon than
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: I thought it was going to take because I had,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: I needed to get a mastectomy. And, uh, I got
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: way behind schedule. So it was as if there were
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: roadblocks being put up. And even my own medical doctor
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: was causing me grief. And they just didn't want me
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: to do this. And that's one of the side effects
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: of what's going on today. I'm not necessarily a huge
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: fan of kids. I don't really care for kids that much, honestly.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: But if I ever see a kid in danger or
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: being abused or mistreated, I will go absolutely nuts. And
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: what I see right now going on is making me
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: go absolutely nuts. And so as part of the book,
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: the last chapter was going to be a treatise on
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: what's going on today, how this all got started, because
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: they are coming after the children. They're trans and the kids, Booker.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: And it's sick.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: And One thing I want to call out is the
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: American College of Pediatricians states that 80 to 95 percent
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: of children with gender dysphoria will resolve if left unmedically
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: and unsocially transitioned. They will resolve in late adolescence. In
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: other words, 80– in other words, more than three-quarters of
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: kids that experience this will grow out of it on
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: their own.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: And– Just let them be kids. Let them be kids.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Can we agree to that? William, I want to thank
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: you so much. Give everybody the title of the book again.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: We have to go. Our time is up. Unleash the
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Political News Hour is coming up here in just a minute.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: But go ahead and give us the name of that
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: book again and tell people where they can get it.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: It's not not man enough to be a woman. You
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: can get it on Amazon for now. It'll be on
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: other platforms soon. And your story. Well, and also you
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: can follow me on Twitter if you like or X.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: It's at W.M. Allen, A.L.L.E.N. 2024 at W.M. Allen 2024
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: on Twitter. You can follow me.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: William, thank you so much for doing this. I really
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: appreciate it. I hope that people have learned something here
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: in this hour. And I want you to remember that
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: you were told 2,000 years ago that you are the
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: salt of the earth. And salt without flavor, it has
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: no value. So whatever you do, keep being salty. Have
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: yourself a great night. There is only one truth. You've
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: been listening to The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: on America Out Loud.