Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / How Showing Her the Money Changes Venture Capital with Azin Radsan van Alebeek | Ep. 123

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How Showing Her the Money Changes Venture Capital with Azin Radsan van Alebeek | Ep. 123 · Women Disrupting Tech

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At our premiere in September of 23, we premiered at the Women's
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International Film Festival in Philadelphia opening night.
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I had a dear friend. Yeah, So it was really great.
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We had a plum position. I had a dear friend from the
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Netherlands was visiting me and so she attended the the premiere
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with me and it was almost immediately after the film it's
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finished and they're rolling their credits.
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And she looked at me and and exclaimed.
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She said, I've never really thought that I could be doing
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this with my money, with my investments.
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And I thought, bam, that's exactly what we want.
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Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
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My name is Der Konopkas, and on this podcast, I give the women
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who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
1:05
each other. Join me on your journey into the
1:08
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
1:13
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
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In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
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Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
1:30
Instructing Tech and thank you for tuning in to episode 123.
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Before we start, in this episode we discuss investments, and
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everything in this episode is for informational purposes only,
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and none of the content is intended as investment advice.
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So you know that capital fuels ideas, but whose ideas are we
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fielding? In this episode of Women
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Disrupting Tech, I'm joined by Azin Ratzen van Alebek.
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She's the Co founder and managing partner at MLN Ventures
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and the Co producer of the movie Show Her the Money.
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Azin is using venture capital as a lever for change, not just to
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generate returns, but to shift behaviours, open doors, and fuel
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a broader range of ideas. In this episode, Azina and I
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dive into the question why showing female founders some
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money builds a better future and reshapes venture capital.
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By listening to our conversation, you'll learn how
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capital can be used as a level for change, what she means when
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she says that thinking big is essential when raising VC money,
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and why a quick no from an investor can actually be
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progress. As you'll hear, Azine is a great
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storyteller. One story that stuck with me is
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when Azine talks about her time as a stay at home mom.
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Instead of sitting on the couch waiting for life to happen, she
3:03
used every available opportunity to learn skills that she needs
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to grow. I think it's a beautiful way to
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present motherhood as a strength rather than as a gap on your
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resume. So when you're ready to listen
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and learn how showing her the money changes venture capital,
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please. Welcome to women disrupting tech
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Azin Ratzen von Aleberg. So Azin Ratzen von Aleberg, good
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afternoon. Welcome to women disrupting
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tech. Glad to have you.
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It's an honor to have you. Let's start with some
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background. How did you get to funding M
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Line Ventures? What happened before that?
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That's such a good question. And dear Count, thank you for
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having me and Turkan. You and I met in Rotterdam in
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May of 2025, SA few months ago at the inaugural screening of
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Show Her the Money, a documentary that was screening
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in Rotterdam was the first time in the Netherlands.
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For me, it was a personal win moment as well because I hold
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Dutch citizenship and have lived in the Netherlands for eight
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years. And I felt the message of the
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movie, which is about raising awareness about the alarming
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lack of women represented in the venture capital industry, right.
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And this was very originally, it was very much AUS based idea.
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But as I began talking with my friend group in the my
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community, my venture capital community, I understood it's
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really a global issue. And that's why I work so hard to
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ensure that this film could screen outside the US as well.
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And I had targeted as the Netherlands as like a country.
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I really wanted to make sure this conversation was ignited.
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And in this what your understanding is for me,
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Emmeline is very mission focused.
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It is about using venture capital, the proper venture
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capital techniques, ways of investing, the ability to make
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outsized returns much larger on average than public market
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returns, and the ability to change behavior and to bring
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innovation to our future. That that essence is very
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important to me when we overlay it with a gender lens.
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And so I am now in what is often called a third chapter of life.
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I've had some great prior chapters, big, I don't know,
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like Hofsticka, almost like a trilogy, if you will.
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And in this part of my story, I am fully focused on creating
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legacy on a, on a global level and using my privileges and my
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past experiences and my past knowledge.
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It's all ties together. This is the right spot for me
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right now. Yeah.
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I think. Also good to understand that
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indeed our our goal is is the same to close that funding gap,
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though we have different ways of doing it.
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Yeah, and I think about that and that's important, right?
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Like, I think that's that's a celebration that we have
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different ways of doing it because it is such a large
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systemic, intractable lease. You know, it seems intractable.
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Like how are we going to do this?
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With any large problem? You attack it from all different
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sides, different angles, with different techniques and
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different techno tools. Like, right.
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Visually, I have the image of a huge boulder.
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Well, we're not all going to focus on one part with the same
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tool. We're going to approach it from
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different, from different angles and, and, and different tools.
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Yours might be blunt edged. Mine might be positioned like a
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laser, right. Someone else is going to come
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with some other alchemy to, to break up that boulder.
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And I think we all need to coordinate and collaborate and
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celebrate our our community together.
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Absolutely agree. Yeah, thank you.
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So I will often present myself as someone who it is
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extraordinary that I sit in the chair that I do right now given
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my background and at the same time it is exactly where I
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should be given my background. So that dichotomy holds true.
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And, and in this I'll share that I have a great educational
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foundation. So I always reference it because
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I'm a firm believer in education and I know that I have benefited
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from a from a very good one. I studied quantitative
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economics, so math based economics at Stanford.
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I worked at a boutique consulting firm where we focused
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on performance based financial analysis and company valuation
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for both private publicly traded companies.
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So I've been immersed at this thinking primarily of overall
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company value and how the C level and board of directors can
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operate to improve shareholder value.
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I went Business School continued and more financial learning and
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marketing and some other areas, then went back to the same
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consulting role. So I was on trajectory and had
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great exposure, learnings network.
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And and then I took a huge pivot, which it's again a
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dichotomy like do you know me as the type A business person or do
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you know me as what? I reinvented myself into the
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stay at home mom. And so for 25 years, given the
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given context at that time, I chose to be at stay at home mom.
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When our first kid was born, I had two more kids.
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We moved to the Netherlands, I learned Dutch, I figured out how
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to live in Europe and, and build my own friend group.
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And then we moved back to the US and I started doing a lot more
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volunteerism, primarily in school systems.
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I taught, I coached sports, I've coached life and and performance
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coaching from a mental side. What else have I done?
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I've been on a bunch of advisory committees and boards and
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through it all I've always been an investor, primarily in public
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markets. And then in 2008 I entered into
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private into Angel investing. So.
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And so how do you end up in Angel investing them?
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Yeah, I'll tell you, it's a lovely story.
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It's a friend of mine, the father of one of my children's
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good friends. He was involved in an Angel
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group in Oregon. And I've actually never asked
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him, like, why did you ask me? But he asked me.
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He invited me. They were doing a pooled
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investment. There were 50 slots, so they
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were looking for 50 investors to put in a certain amount of money
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collectively to diligence and to to select deals in a one year
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period. And he invited me into the room
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and I'm so thankful that he thought of me because I didn't
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know anything about Angel investing.
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And honestly, I didn't really know about the private markets
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and venture capital and how it all worked.
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So that was my first entry into it.
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I was a huge learning year. And I will say what it, it's,
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it, it's also remarkable that first pooled investment, there
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are fifty of us, as I mentioned, we voted collectively, we built
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a portfolio of five companies. That portfolio has returned over
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10X returns. I mean it, it was phenomenal.
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And, and I didn't know this, but that, you know, it takes, it
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took about 7 years for the first distribution check to come back
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and it took 14 for the final distribution, right?
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Like venture investing at the early stages is very long term.
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And, and so, but that got me curious and interested and I
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started making direct investments into friends, into
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truly friends and families, startups.
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I looked for other opportunities to invest became an LP and some
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venture funds. And it's just, it has remained
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an industry, an asset class that I just find so wonderful.
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It's hopeful thinking about the future.
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It's it's learning about the latest and greatest innovation
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in technologies. The people who are in it have
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this insatiable curiosity and, and, and, and positivity while
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remaining skeptical at the same time.
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So. Yeah, that's a, Yeah, that's A,
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and it's a unique trade off I think for the that this sector
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is in. It's indeed.
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On the one hand, it's really, you have to be really curious as
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an investor because you are seeing all kinds of new things
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that no one knows about or nobody cared about before.
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And then all of a sudden you have to understand what it
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means. And if you want to invest in it.
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And on the other hand, you have to sort of be a bit protective.
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So a bit skeptical about it indeed.
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Yeah, I mean, I find it's, I would say to my background, I
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have been someone who has always felt like an outsider.
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I grew up in a small town in Michigan where my brother and I
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were the only kids who looked like us at school, right.
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And yet I was part of that. And I look back and I'm like, I
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loved that. That is part of my background.
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I've lived in the US as an Iran, someone who's felt Iranian
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different. But then when I lived in the
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Netherlands, I was told I was an example of an American, which
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was very funny to me. And so and I speak a few
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languages. So I have always had, it's
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innate right. I I operate on this continuum of
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being either in or out or somewhere in between, as you're
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saying. As Avci think, that's a really
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valuable skill because you do have to look at both ends and be
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able to firmly and convincingly support all the different views.
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Yeah. So how does that background you
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mentioned that you and your brother were the only Iranian
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guys or people in the in the village.
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How? How does that help as AVC or how
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does it help in general in life to adapt?
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To yeah, no, I'll start with a how does that help in general in
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life? And I think it's the
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understanding that your what you hold is true is not necessarily
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held true by everyone else. And so to do a few things,
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understand what it is that others hold dear, what their
14:00
values are, how they're operating, and understand the
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why of it. And then to be able to also
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reflect upon your own values and understand like and how come
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this is important to me and to look for commonality.
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And I would say the same if if you've been an expat, if you've
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lived in other countries when I lived in the Netherlands, right?
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Like things were different than both my Iranian cultural
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background and things were different from my American
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upbringing. How approaches and in the in
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being curious, the fun really is, is like understanding why.
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Why is it this way? Why do they operate that way?
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What does it protect? What does it signify?
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And so if you approach it with open mindedness and curiosity,
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it just, it allows your world to be so much larger.
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Yeah, it said. Do you find it also more fun
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that way? Oh, 100%.
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But I'm, I'm, I think I'm, I'm a curious type person and I like
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learning and, and it's, yeah, it's just, it's, and I'm in, I
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mean, if you want to go into like personality types, I could
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tell you why it fits with my personality types.
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But the idea of also being able to what?
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In the US there's a term called code shifting, right?
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So if you're in one group, you act one way and then when you go
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into another community, you might start pushing and flexing
15:30
other aspects of your personality.
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And that's just, for me, it's fun.
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It's not acting, but it's an ability to allow your entire
15:37
personality to to be at play, if you will.
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Yeah. But also to bring to to
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highlight certain parts of your personality based on the
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situation that you're in, if I hear you correctly.
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I think so, yes. Yeah.
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So I was wondering, yeah, because you mentioned that when
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you were first involved, you first got involved with Angel
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investing, you were with a group of 50, I think.
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Yes. How, out of curiosity, how many
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women were there? Yes, great question.
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My memory is there were probably 10 of us.
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It wasn't awful, but it wasn't great, right.
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So 20% and at that time and it could be fewer by the way, I
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might, I might be overestimating.
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I can tell you similarly and differently when I was working
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in consulting and was working with C level executives and
16:39
boards of directors, I remember, and this was for five years and
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I must have had over 102 hundred different executives and
16:50
individuals that we worked with. I remember at most 5 people
16:54
being women. That's pretty low.
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That's pretty low. Really low.
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And so this is if you say like, why am I doing what I'm doing at
17:04
Emmeline to help accelerate women in specifically in now
17:08
venture capital, which is again, I am taking a small chunk of the
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entire problem because this is something I've seen my entire
17:17
life, the lack of representation by women and people of color in
17:22
positions of power and in positions where there is great
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money to be made, right? Yeah.
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And maybe also tell the audience what that does.
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What is the result of the under representation of women?
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Yeah, I would say it's it's, it's multifold.
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So one is is if you assume there's a, here's one idea for
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you. Those who are intimate to
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problems are the ones who will be solving them.
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Because if you don't know about a problem, it's unlikely that
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you're going to be thinking a founder who's who's building a
18:03
startup to solve a problem. That is a very difficult path.
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It is lonely, it's hard. So you are going to choose to
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work on something that is very important to you.
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So if we can agree on that, what it means is if you don't have
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enough representation of different types of founders and
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that we assume that certain problems are gender based, it
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means that conditions that affect her are going to be under
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resourced, underfunded, under investigated and under solved.
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And that because Venture is all about our future, that means
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we're just setting ourselves up today for a future that is less
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and less inclined to to fully activate over half of our
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population. And I'm going to add one more
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thought on this. If you think that if you assume
19:00
correctly that talent is equally distributed and I don't care if
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you want to talk about gender, skin color, geography, lefter,
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hand rightedness, political orientation, religious
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orientation, talent is equally distributed.
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What is at issue is opportunity is not.
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And so again, you are narrowing a focus.
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Capital fuels ideas. And if we're not fueling a full
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cross section of ideas, we are building a future that doesn't
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allow all of us to be our best self.
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So that's 1/2 for those and that affects everyone.
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Whether you know about venture capital or not, it's going to
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affect you. How?
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It also will affect those who actually invest in this space,
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be they founders, general partners, GPS like myself or
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LP's, those who invest in the funds like an asset class.
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Those 3 constituent groups are also highly male.
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So 85% GPS are male, 98% founders are male and around 80%
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of investors are male. What happens is asset classes I
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mentioned earlier, it typically has delivered two times the
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returns that a public market portfolio will return.
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So if you think a public market returns typically 10%.
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Of a of a return that your investments in venture are 20%
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that's a huge difference over time.
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It is the wealth creation difference, right?
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One is it is true generational wealth.
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Let me say it that way. So if women are not
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participating here, we're also falling behind, not only because
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of our gender pay gap, but because of what happens once we
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get that pay and how we invest it.
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Yeah. And this is not solved by just
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investing in your ETF, index funds, whatever.
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And mind you by the First off, you know, disclaimer, I'm not a
21:04
financial advisor, right? So please trust yet verify
21:09
everything I say on this. But two, I do firmly believe
21:13
like you need to have a balanced portfolio.
21:16
Yes, you should have some ETFs. Yes, you should have some fixed
21:20
income, assuming that you meet the requirements And that you, I
21:25
mean, I can go into this, but I'm, I'm fairly concerned.
21:29
You need to be thoughtful about how much you put into into
21:33
alternative, into the alternative asset class.
21:36
But so I mean you're able to. You should be considering this.
21:40
Yes. And then still go through
21:44
financial certified financial advisors.
21:48
To well, let me ask you, what do you mean about that?
21:52
Our people who have have been at least have are registered.
21:56
Sorry. When you've to make these
21:58
investments. Yeah, to to to get advice.
22:02
Yes, exactly. Yes, yes to get advice.
22:04
Thank you, not to make the investment, but to get advice.
22:07
OK, this is how much you could. And I can just quickly say
22:11
you'll want to think about your risk tolerance, your age, your
22:15
overall goals and values, right? There's a long list of questions
22:19
and what's right for you is not right for the next person.
22:23
There are some ranges, some bands around which we can say,
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well, this is typically what one might do.
22:30
So I want to talk about some statistics about funding of
22:34
female founders. Through Pitchbook I found out
22:41
that .9% of EC funding and these are US numbers.
22:45
What is it 6% of deal count? So 6% of the number of deals
22:51
that were done in in the what will and up until August this
22:58
year 2025 go to female founders. What do you was the first moment
23:04
you realized, hey, but this is like a very low number because
23:12
this number has been sort of the same for past decade, I think.
23:17
That's exactly what I was going to say.
23:18
Yes, I think when so five years ago, almost almost exactly 5
23:27
years ago, I entered into a program called PIPE run by
23:31
pipeline angels. It is they run investor boot
23:35
camps that are targeted towards women and women of color
23:39
primarily. And it's to, to build the
23:42
ecosystem, to build the pipeline of those who are both investors
23:47
and, and founders. And so you asked when did I
23:51
first hear about this number was likely during that boot camp.
23:57
It was very much a focus of, of giving us the data and the, I
24:05
want to say the inspiration to make a difference.
24:09
But obviously it was something that I intuitively already knew
24:13
and when I heard the real data. So what was your first fault out
24:18
of curiosity? Well, when I heard that number
24:24
of the 2%, I don't know exactly what exactly my first thought
24:29
was, but let me say there's a few things I was thinking 1A
24:34
roll of the eyes of. I didn't realize it was that
24:38
low, but I had expected it would have been low.
24:42
The second thought would be some skepticism of is that number
24:47
really true or not? And what does that number
24:50
actually represent getting into the data?
24:53
Because if you remember, I was, I was a data girl back back long
24:57
ago. And how does one change this?
25:03
So those are, you know, those would have been preliminary
25:06
thoughts. I'll give you one data back
25:09
because I think I don't want to detract from the very low
25:14
numbers of women, female founders in the venture space.
25:21
What I often have been asked is, well, how many women are
25:26
actually presenting their ideas to venture funds?
25:32
And so that number is 30% is what I've heard, right.
25:36
So you can say that the number is still low relative to the
25:42
number of of submissions. And then you could ask and why
25:46
aren't more women submitting, right?
25:49
It's a pipeline question. And me when you want to talk
25:52
about how is it that we can bring more female representation
25:56
into this entire ecosystem? Like I started at the beginning,
26:01
of course, what we're doing will have effect, but I think there
26:05
are cultural issues at play as well.
26:09
How do we educate, how do we, what expectations do we put on
26:14
our girl students versus our boy students, right?
26:18
How do we parent them? How do we speak to them
26:21
differently? So it's it is not going to be
26:27
solved in one space. No, and not in.
26:32
I don't think it's going to be solved in one generation.
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I don't, although people ask me about this too.
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And, and my hopefulness looking forward, I would say I have
26:42
three children who are in like their late 20s, one who's 30.
26:48
And so through them I get to see the eyes of their generation.
26:51
And I would say even the generation younger than them,
26:54
there is a different approach towards gender and, and the
26:59
understanding of, of gender limitations.
27:02
I think some of those hurdles have been removed.
27:06
Some of the limitations are, are being taken away.
27:10
There's a broader sense of what a girl can do, what a boy can do
27:14
right. And I actually do here was
27:15
something that for me was a huge aha is we talk a lot about young
27:20
girls and young women and women at large and giving them
27:23
opportunities and making sure that they feel like they have
27:26
the full spectrum. And I had a young man point out
27:29
to me, he said, we are we men don't all want to be the the
27:33
knight on the horse either. And there are many more roles
27:38
for the young boys to play as well and the men to play as
27:41
well. And I thought that that that
27:43
gave me great pause. Yeah, yeah.
27:46
It's indeed really important also to see that there is some
27:50
change in, in how we educate and and raise our children.
27:58
I don't have any children ourselves myself, but it's, I
28:03
think it does start there, making, making the changes
28:08
starts there. And then indeed there's a
28:11
pipeline issue that also has to be solved.
28:15
So I was also wondering about one thing you said early on you
28:21
wanted to use venture capital to change this.
28:25
Why? Why use something that at least
28:29
I consider to be broken and part of the cause?
28:34
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
28:36
And I'm, I don't know that I've actually made this link before
28:42
so overtly, but I will say it really roots back to maybe some
28:48
core beliefs I hold. And they are illustrated by my
28:53
work coming out of college. Remember I mentioned I was
28:57
working for a boutique, It was a startup boutique consulting
29:00
firm. And at core of what we did was
29:03
designing pay systems for the executive group, primarily pay
29:09
systems that focus them on the key drivers of success.
29:13
So what you can pull out from this is I'm actually a firm
29:17
believer that money is a great carrot to get people to focus
29:22
and do what you want them to do. Right.
29:28
So as an incentive, I'm not arguing that it doesn't work,
29:31
but I'm just right. And so, so, so if we hold that
29:35
true and then we say there is a great deal of money to be made
29:40
in venture. Let us use that capacity, that
29:43
ability to again, help people understand the value here,
29:50
because what statistics we haven't talked about yet is that
29:52
female founders tend to outperform.
29:56
They are much more capital efficient.
30:00
They exit in faster right and they and their return on the
30:09
investment is much higher. So it's all about aligning and
30:14
focusing the vision on where the money is.
30:17
You know, show me the money is is a great way to distill it.
30:23
Yeah, so that's a great bridge to the to the movie.
30:26
Show her the money. Maybe for people who haven't
30:31
seen it or haven't read the book, there's a book I think.
30:34
There's a book that came out, I believe it was July 15th.
30:38
It's in hardback. And what paperback recently came
30:41
out? We've been on the number one
30:42
bestseller list at Amazon. It's incredible.
30:45
Yeah. So for those who haven't read
30:47
book or seen a movie, what is it about?
30:50
What is it? Well.
30:54
Except for wonderful female founders and their investors,
30:58
actually. What is it about?
30:59
And I'll tell you first what the book is about and then I'll tell
31:02
you what the movie is about because they're slightly
31:04
different. So the book is, I believe it's
31:06
40 chapters. And each chapter is the story of
31:10
an individual who is affiliated with the film, either as a
31:13
producer or a cast member. And then the idea is in in
31:18
reading these stories for someone who wants to get
31:20
involved, you will recognize the paths to getting involved are
31:25
varied. There's no one path, there's no
31:28
right path. And that all of our past
31:30
experiences are important. And by the way, I think so then
31:34
just many of the stories are highly inspiring and funny and,
31:39
and, and give you moments of, of lovely learning and reflection.
31:43
So that's what the book is about all wrapped up in the idea of
31:47
let us inspire you. And if you pull to the film, I
31:50
talk about it and in fact a few different ways.
31:53
And I'm not sure what you heard me talk about the night at in
31:56
Rotterdam. The film is really about
32:01
inviting people in and especially women, helping them
32:05
invite them into this world of venture, of start up, investing
32:13
in a way that is approachable, that is enjoyable, entertaining
32:21
and inspiring. Because the film follows 4
32:24
founders. It follows their journeys and
32:27
the journeys, as I had mentioned earlier, they have peaks and
32:30
valleys and, and, and you know, when the same day you might go
32:35
from a peak valley a few different times.
32:37
And this continues for years. And, and the film actually does
32:41
follow a longitudinally, I think about six months, 6 to 12 months
32:46
of the four different founders. And it intersects then with two
32:49
venture capital firms, ours and another.
32:52
And it includes also a few Angel investors.
32:55
And so we're really trying to give a, a beautiful storytelling
33:00
of what goes on in the space because that isn't something
33:04
that most people are Privy to. And for founders, it is a such a
33:13
like a hits their heart. They see themselves in the film
33:18
and for others that it allows them to understand, hey,
33:22
actually, I could be doing this and I could be doing it as an
33:24
investor, but maybe that's not right for me.
33:26
I could be doing it as an ecosystem builder.
33:28
Maybe I'm just going to be someone who talks about this to
33:31
all my friends, right? But there's a lot of ways to
33:33
activate. And this I've talked about all
33:36
very specifically, it's related to Venture, but what I also like
33:41
to talk about with this film is it goes a level higher.
33:45
You can view it as a level higher to say anything's
33:49
possible, just remove your own self limiting beliefs.
33:53
And that for me is the strongest message of this film as you see
33:57
when you see it. It's the idea of like I can do
34:02
that. Yeah.
34:02
But also I can invest in that because there were two two
34:06
founders. I want to pick out that that I
34:09
remember 1 is Jasmine Jones. She produces prosthetic bras.
34:18
So for people who have had breast cancer, for instance, or
34:24
had to have breast removed, that they can have bras that
34:29
actually, well give them back part of their identity.
34:36
And the order is Marion Leitner, who had an idea where I was at
34:42
first when I first saw it, like, OK, how does this work?
34:48
It's luxury wines in Cannes. And it only the the quarter
34:53
literally only dropped with me when she told that she was had
34:58
been selling to Southwest Airlines, which is a big US
35:02
airline. And I was like, oh, wait a
35:04
minute. Yeah, they are.
35:05
It's about weight. And then all of a sudden, a can
35:09
of wine makes a lot of sense. So going back to the limiting
35:15
beliefs, what are the limiting beliefs that holds male
35:19
investors back from investing in those two ideas?
35:23
Yes, I'm going to tackle them differently or so limiting
35:28
beliefs for male investors in general, not to go into female
35:32
spaces. I would say I don't know that it
35:36
starts with eliminating belief, but it starts with a lack of
35:40
lack of knowledge. And remember at the beginning we
35:43
had talked about those who are best served to solve a problem
35:49
are those who experience it. I would say investors are also
35:54
best served investing in spaces they know a lot about, right?
36:00
You should you should have a good deal of knowledge,
36:03
experience, understanding and and usually interest fuels that
36:07
that not that need to like dig and to understand more.
36:12
And so I would say for many of the of the business solutions
36:18
that are affecting her, I feel that just like men just don't
36:22
understand, they just don't know.
36:24
Do I fault them for it? A little bit, but not a lot.
36:27
I'm like, you have to invest in what interests you and what you
36:30
know. Well, what I can fault them on
36:33
is not taking a moment to understand how large of a market
36:37
this is. Many of these solutions are in
36:41
right and as a as a venture investor, you want to be
36:44
investing in spaces that are very large and that are growing.
36:48
That's very important to ensure that you can you can model out
36:52
the appropriate returns. And so the self limiting belief
36:56
is that I would say that they're guilty of is not taking the
37:05
moment to be curious, not taking the moment to to broaden their
37:11
aperture and, and, and not not wanting to perhaps bring in
37:19
other voices on their in their investment committees, on their
37:24
diligence teams and to trust them when they are being told,
37:29
hey, wait a second, this is, this is a really lucrative
37:32
market. And I will say I have been
37:35
seeing more and more that there are traditional male investors
37:42
who are coming into this space. And you know, I think of them as
37:46
being very smart. Yeah, it's still 50% of the
37:49
population. Yeah, 50% of the population with
37:54
a with a pent up demand and need for solutions that will be
38:01
instrumental in improving health outcomes, for example, for half
38:06
the world's population. And in many of those solutions,
38:11
if they're focused on her health, particularly in in
38:15
maternity, right. And during pregnancy, you really
38:18
then are affecting 100% of the population.
38:22
Indeed. Yeah.
38:24
So, so was there during the the I think six months or so were it
38:29
the the film spends about six months of developments.
38:36
Was there a specific moment that you remember while shooting the
38:43
movie, creating the scenes that you fought like, OK, and This is
38:49
why I'm doing the the work that I'm doing.
38:51
This is why I made this movie. Well, that's such a good
38:55
question. No one's asked that yet.
38:59
I would say in full honesty, while we are filming the movie,
39:06
working on the movie, I do sit with a skeptic cat a little bit
39:10
too long. I was had a foot in both doors
39:17
of like, is this film actually going to ever get made right?
39:21
So I think the during the the production of it, I might not
39:27
have had that moment of like the big light bulb.
39:32
At our premiere in September of 23, we premiered at the Women's
39:36
International Film Festival in Philadelphia opening night.
39:41
I had a dear friend. Yeah.
39:43
So it was really great. We had a plum position.
39:46
I had a dear friend from the Netherlands was visiting me.
39:50
And so she attended the the premiere with me and it was
39:55
almost immediately after the film, it's finished and they're
40:00
rolling their credits. And she looked at me and and
40:04
exclaimed. She said, I've never really
40:07
thought that I could be doing this with my money, with my
40:10
investments. And I thought, bam, that's
40:15
exactly what we want. And so for me, that was a little
40:20
bit of a different answer. I'm answering slightly
40:22
differently than you asked me, but like that idea of this.
40:27
Is why we're doing this is to help people open their their
40:30
aperture, open their thinking about what can be done.
40:34
Yeah, Yeah, it's it. I think that the film is very
40:38
powerful in that sense. A from from showing, let's say
40:45
business cases that are I think don't traditionally go through
40:51
VC or even Angel investing at all.
40:54
And also, yeah, really inspiring people like, hey, it can just be
41:01
you as a restaurant owner or I think there's a owner of a chain
41:07
of restaurants or franchise holder in in there or, or a
41:15
woman who is just runs into, let's say a larger paycheck who
41:21
then decides to do something meaningful with your money to
41:27
really to use to, yeah, to use capital to make the change.
41:31
Purpose. Yeah, with purpose.
41:33
And that then there have been studies done that women
41:35
investors tend to want, we tend to look for purpose and
41:41
fulfillment, right? And I would say as someone who's
41:45
running a venture capital fund, right, like I'm investing to
41:49
make money for profit with purpose attached.
41:54
And what's lovely that I can point to is there are a number
41:57
of studies that show when you combine purpose with profit,
42:02
your profit tends to in fact be greater.
42:04
So there. And because that's one of the
42:07
limiting beliefs we hear often that if you invest for purpose
42:11
that you are there for accepting concessionary lower than
42:14
expected returns and that's not true.
42:17
Now that that's that's a bit in the DT myth also that you have
42:21
here and that you even getting comments on social media.
42:24
Oh yeah. But you're doing it for the
42:26
impact. So why are you not doing it for
42:28
free? Yeah.
42:30
And I would say, and I really dislike the word impact by the
42:34
way, because all investments have impact, everything we do
42:37
has. Impact.
42:39
And so the question is, are you aware of the impact and is the
42:44
impact positive or negative and from whose point of view?
42:47
Yeah. So it's more about purpose and
42:51
then it is about impact. Yeah.
42:54
And I would say intention, like I know we are very intentional
42:57
and deliberate at Emmeline. Yeah, so how about Emmeline?
43:02
Because you focus on her overall health, right?
43:09
Maybe explain what her overall health falls into and what it
43:15
includes and excludes. Sure.
43:18
And and I'm going to present it in two different ways to start
43:21
because I know, you know, we all, we're all different types
43:25
of thinkers. So I hope it lands as people are
43:27
listening. They're like, oh, I like it that
43:29
way. And some people will like it a
43:30
different way. But I often say we invest in her
43:33
overall health, where health is a broadened definition to
43:38
include her physical health, her mental health, her financial
43:42
health, and her environmental health.
43:45
So those core pillars of her health keep her truly whole and
43:51
healthy and able to accelerate. Another way to think about it is
43:55
we invest to manage her health, build her wealth, and help her
44:00
live in a cleaner and safer world.
44:03
And so, and if you really want to distill it very like chop,
44:08
chop, chop, I could say we invest in femtech, fintech and
44:11
food tech, right? That's, that's a, that's a very
44:14
condensed distillation because it's a little bit broader than
44:17
that, but I like the three FS and, and that helps people,
44:22
right? And So what does it mean?
44:24
So we are looking for solutions that are going to support her
44:29
exclusively, differently and disproportionately.
44:34
And those terms are often used for medical conditions because
44:37
you can now think about pregnancy and menopause, let's
44:45
say, are medical conditions that she exclusively experiences.
44:51
Men don't experience that, right.
44:54
And then you have differently and disproportionately women
44:58
disproportionately experience are affected by Alzheimer's.
45:03
I think it's like a rate of 2 to one.
45:05
I mean it's a huge number. So we're curious about those
45:11
solutions that are are supporting her there differently
45:15
would be cardiology. So how a female presents with
45:20
with her heart conditions is different than a male.
45:25
And so again, there need to be more studies because your
45:27
listeners should know that women have not been involved in
45:30
medical testing until I believe most recently, I believe that
45:37
began and I double checked me on this, but only as recent as 15
45:42
to 20 years ago. Yeah, that that actually that
45:45
coincides with where that matches with what a previous
45:50
guest told me that when she was studying, which is like 20-30
45:55
years ago, most of the Lab Rats were still male to make sure
46:00
that even in the Lab Rats, they could exclude all the hormonal
46:04
effects. Which has is one of our major
46:10
effects across a woman's life are hormones, right?
46:15
Strongly and consistently. So, so it's only recent studies
46:21
that include female bodies in in the study work to really
46:25
understand those differences and, and how medicines are
46:29
treated and, and therapies and, and advice, right.
46:33
And so again, looking at financial and environmental
46:38
health, we apply that same lens when we're thinking about the
46:42
solution, the startups that we're looking at.
46:45
I'm going to give you an example of a financial health company
46:48
that we're invested in the beans.
46:52
It is a financial budgeting app that is offered through
46:55
employers and is specifically targeted to healthcare and into
47:03
medical healthcare with a lot of nurses, teachers, right?
47:08
Like those employee groups, they're predominantly female.
47:13
So again, so we're looking in ways like men are going to use
47:16
it too. Of course they're going to use
47:18
it, but the we're starting in groups that is highly female.
47:22
So we're going to help her. More OK, do you also.
47:26
Sorry. Do you also invest in in
47:30
companies who do it match with the purpose but who have a male
47:34
founder? So I didn't say, so thank you.
47:38
Before I go, then we're looking at seed stage, which is an
47:42
earlier stage company. They have a product, they have
47:45
some revenues, they're working on their product market fit by
47:50
virtue of the types of of companies or solutions that
47:55
we're trying to solve, it is almost always a byproduct that
47:59
there will that there will be a female on the founding team.
48:02
So can there also be a male on the founding team?
48:06
Absolutely. Do we want strong female
48:08
representation? Absolutely.
48:11
Yeah, but it's not actually women only.
48:14
Not women only, no. So we, a number of our our
48:17
startups have men on the founding teams as well.
48:19
Because truly, diversity goes both ways.
48:23
Yeah. So what kind of founders are you
48:26
you most excited to back? So it's it's it's seat that that
48:31
is one thing. It's it's either mixed or female
48:35
founded. What else?
48:38
I'm looking for, if I could distill it in a few words, who
48:43
I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone who was
48:47
who has intimate knowledge of the problem she's solving.
48:50
Right, Because I want it because and I want them to know the
48:56
problem inside and out and to be able to iterate on the solutions
49:02
because the solutions we see at pre seed and seed stage are
49:06
going to change because they're and here's like the second
49:09
aspect, I want a founder who's going to be curious and who's
49:13
going to be doing a good deal of hypothesis testing, get
49:18
gathering new knowledge, bringing that back in right into
49:21
the system. So it is an iterative process.
49:24
If they are are if they are both curious and aware of the
49:27
problem, they are going to be finding the correct solution
49:30
that the market wants to pull. And so that requires a good deal
49:36
of another way to say it is a strong back and an open heart,
49:42
right firm and convictions and yet open to receiving new
49:47
information and processing it and and adding it into the
49:50
system. Strong about to what and why,
49:53
and soft and how. Yeah, yeah.
49:57
And I'm trying to think if there's anything more.
49:59
I've been playing around with a few other variables that I look
50:03
for. I'm just going to keep those to
50:06
the side now, but I am, I try and embody what I'm looking for,
50:11
right? Like I am iterative, constantly
50:13
learning, I joke around with people.
50:15
I'm like, I'm my own LLM basically like just keep giving
50:18
me data and I'm going to be readjusting and, and, and
50:23
expanding my knowledge. And of course, like integrity,
50:29
it is a long relationship that we hold together.
50:32
So we need to be able to trust one another and really feel
50:35
like, hey, we're in it together for the long haul.
50:39
Yeah, what? What does integrity mean?
50:41
How does it sort of Yeah manifest?
50:45
I would say for me, it's it's being open, it's being clear,
50:51
it's having the hard conversations when you need to.
50:55
It's leaving ego aside and it's just, and it's and trust is part
51:02
of that, right? Last question on you as an
51:05
investor, you spent your time between the US and Europe.
51:09
What are the differences in how you see that women founders are
51:14
supported or not supported by the ecosystem?
51:17
Yeah. I'm not an expert in the
51:19
European ecosystem and one thing Dirk and we didn't talk about is
51:23
with at Emeline we're investing only in US based companies with
51:27
our fund one. And my presence in Europe has to
51:32
do more with personal interest and having lived here and and
51:38
being a frequent visitor so and in wanting to intersect and use
51:44
my learnings from the US. So how are female founders?
51:49
How is it different for her in Europe than in the USI would say
51:57
there's, it's maybe more difficult in Europe.
52:00
So there are fewer what I there are fewer funds like ours in
52:08
Europe that are really very have that gender lens overlay with
52:13
the PC. They definitely exist.
52:15
There's some incredible ones out there in the Netherlands for
52:18
sure, and in the UK and I in France as well and across the,
52:24
the continent, right. I believe the number in the US
52:29
is, is much greater. We've been around for longer and
52:33
the capital that we control is larger, so more access.
52:42
Is, is, is it also, yeah, maybe not for women per SE, but also
52:46
the fragmentation of the market. The problem because the US is,
52:50
is 1 big market. In the end, if you're FDA
52:54
approved, you're FDA approved. You can sell pretty much
52:57
everywhere, yeah, barring some. State yes for.
53:01
Sure, but in Europe there's legislation that is different
53:06
from one country to the next, even though we're pretending to
53:09
be a union. Yes, Now that's a great point.
53:13
I would say yes, that is one of the difficulties as well and
53:16
particularly in healthcare because of the systems are
53:18
different, right. Yeah.
53:21
So that's that, and also. Yeah.
53:24
Just that and also block female health solutions.
53:28
I would say it just really depends what's the greatest
53:32
answer. In VC it depends, but it depends
53:35
on if it's one that needs approval or not, how the
53:38
reimbursement works, how the payment works for its.
53:42
Yeah, because that that is going to indeed be different from one
53:46
country to the next and then it's becomes an issue.
53:51
So I was wondering if you meet a founder maybe going back to the
53:57
ideal founder profile, but not through profile, but to to the
54:05
cases that you invest in. What are you looking for in
54:09
pitch tax? Are there are there specific
54:13
things other than the that that of course it needs to be seed?
54:17
Right. And US.
54:20
Yes, so thank you for that. So seen US based it has to
54:24
somehow fit with our investment mandate of in those sectors that
54:30
help her manage her health, build her wealth and live in a
54:32
cleaner and safer world, right. So those to start with, but the
54:36
actual pitch deck a few thoughts.
54:39
One is to remember that the pitch deck is to pique my
54:44
curiosity and interest to say I wanted.
54:47
I want to set up a call with you, right?
54:49
So there needs to be enough in there to get me excited and not
54:55
so much that I get lost or bored or feel like I have enough
54:58
information I don't need to talk to you.
55:00
So it, it's this delicate balance I am looking for the
55:10
ability to, to communicate the problem in the solution
55:15
concisely and to quickly turn and explain to me how, how I as
55:24
a, as AGP of a fund, be able to make money off of this
55:28
investment for our fund, which is what my job is.
55:32
And so, and I say those three things very deliberately.
55:36
I find often that the problem in pitch decks gets too much
55:42
attention. Personally, I'm like, I need one
55:45
page, maybe 2. That's all like hit me top
55:49
level. What the problem is.
55:51
I want to quickly understand what the solution is, but I also
55:54
want to understand that the founder.
55:56
And I think This is why I really want to see this, that the
55:59
founder understands what the relationship is and what my job
56:02
is because I definitely want to improve health outcomes from all
56:08
for all. That's my purpose.
56:10
The profit is still where I really need to focus.
56:15
And so if you can help me with that to understand quickly in
56:19
your pitch deck, then I like not only does it help me want to say
56:22
yes, but it helps me learn a little bit more about you that
56:25
you understand the system that you're in.
56:28
OK. So if I can distill a tip from
56:31
this also is it's also for founders to really understand
56:36
who the investor is, who the and how he or she thinks what he or
56:43
she needs from you as a founder to be successful and to sell the
56:49
investment to LP's, to stakeholders, to whoever.
56:55
And I and I believe in Rotterdam, I spoke about this,
56:59
I'll say it again. There are so many great
57:02
businesses ideas out there and so many wonderful ones, right,
57:07
that will and make money for the founder and can have a great
57:10
impact in the world and can improve health outcomes or
57:14
wealth outcomes for many. That is all true.
57:17
It is also true that in that in that large subset of companies
57:22
that I've just mentioned, not all of those are made for not
57:28
all of those should take venture dollars.
57:32
Right. And so understanding that is
57:36
also important for a founder to say what is the best type of
57:40
capital for me and for my company and how I want to build
57:44
my company. And so it seems like Venture has
57:49
become such a like a coveted sexy, you know, capital
57:54
allocation for founders and it and it works really well for
57:59
some, but not for all. So what?
58:03
What makes a proposal venture ready?
58:08
A proposal or a. Business, yeah.
58:12
Well, every, every VC is going to have a different answer,
58:14
right. But I would say one thing that
58:17
we can align on is you need to see that the business can grow
58:22
so that and to grow quickly. So it is not something of a slow
58:27
build over time business that we're looking for, but we're
58:31
looking for let's say triple and double 300, two 100% revenue
58:39
growth in the first few years. Yeah, and that doesn't need to
58:43
lead to profit yet, I suppose, not in the few first few years.
58:49
Not in the first few years, but now since 2021.
58:53
Investors are leaning back more on fundamentals and the idea of
58:58
growth at all costs is incorrect.
59:00
There needs to be a growth with a path towards profitability.
59:05
Yeah, yeah. Ultimately the the money has to
59:08
come out somewhere, yes, Because otherwise there's, if there's no
59:12
profit, there's no dividend, there's no payout, there's no
59:16
right. You're just going to go quicker
59:17
into debt. Yeah, and burn quicker.
59:21
Yeah. So and here, yeah.
59:25
And so, and I'll just, and things that current trends I've
59:29
been seeing is CPG is something that VCs are less and less
59:38
inclined to invest in and apps are less and less an area focus
59:45
where they were maybe five years ago still very hot.
59:47
But now the idea is you really need something much larger like
59:51
a like a like an actual company or a platform that might
59:55
incorporate the app. But you have to think bigger,
59:58
which I'm going to say that term one more time because there are
1:00:01
a few things when we think about limiting beliefs is to recognize
1:00:07
that particularly women. It's how we're acculturated.
1:00:11
I'm going to say that is that we're, we're not conditioned to
1:00:15
think big and to dream big. And I'm going to give an example
1:00:21
differently. I was talking to someone about a
1:00:23
she was a founder of a of a sports, a startup focused in the
1:00:29
sports arena and talking about thinking about the individual
1:00:35
athlete. But then it was really helpful
1:00:38
to be talking. I was talking to a guy and he
1:00:39
reminded me, well, like, why don't we talk about teams?
1:00:43
Why don't we talk? About leagues.
1:00:46
Right, and it was even. And I find myself hitting my
1:00:49
head on this all the time too and reminding myself think
1:00:52
larger, think bigger and not and to grow your to grow the expand
1:01:00
your idea of what is possible. Is that helpful?
1:01:03
Yeah, it is. How can women, how can female
1:01:08
founders change that perspective to to to look at it from bigger
1:01:13
lands? So if they're going to be
1:01:14
solving problem A right and I'm going to, I want to give a
1:01:20
concrete example. I hope this is helpful.
1:01:23
I have a founder who's solving for working on an app that is
1:01:30
looking at hormones in a specific period of time for a
1:01:34
woman, right. I actually have a few different
1:01:39
companies that I'm looking at that are doing this along
1:01:41
stages. I've also met someone who's
1:01:45
looking to understand hormones at large across her entire life
1:01:50
stage. OK.
1:01:52
And so for me, that's just, it's a different orientation.
1:01:55
I like the latter more than the former.
1:01:58
Do you put them together? Like, do you talk to them?
1:02:01
Like, hey, you're looking at this from different angles.
1:02:05
Yeah, some of them, yeah, it's a great question.
1:02:07
Some of them I do. I always, I always double opt
1:02:10
in. By the way, I'm like, This is
1:02:11
why I think you might want to talk to this person.
1:02:13
And here's the reason why you might and, and for me, it's it's
1:02:19
about understanding that everyone can get to a better,
1:02:24
like Pareto optimal is an economic term that I learned
1:02:27
long ago. And the idea is to put everyone
1:02:30
into a better position without decreasing anyone's position.
1:02:34
So if I feel that's possible, I will certainly make
1:02:36
introductions and and and think about ways that they can work
1:02:43
together for sure. Yeah.
1:02:47
So I want to go back to all the way to the beginning.
1:02:50
OK. Of the conversation, you
1:02:52
mentioned that you were a stay at home mom.
1:02:55
Yes. Let's say there are women
1:02:58
listening who are currently stay at home, mom or otherwise on the
1:03:02
sideline of working life. 2 questions.
1:03:05
One is, I heard you say in another podcast that you really
1:03:11
did a lot on upskilling yourself, so maybe help
1:03:18
understand why this is important to to obscure and stay relevant.
1:03:23
Yeah, in that period. Yes.
1:03:25
And I'm going to say it in two different ways.
1:03:26
And thank you, dear John, for bringing that up, because I do
1:03:29
think it's an important phase of my life And I, I have worked
1:03:35
hard to reframe it in my own head, right, Because I know that
1:03:40
or I feel that culture has positioned the stay at home mom
1:03:47
experience, despite saying, oh, it's so worthy, it's so
1:03:50
admirable, so noble, blah, blah, blah.
1:03:53
There's it's still viewed as a less than intellectually, I
1:04:02
don't know, demanding time. And I'm not saying that exactly
1:04:06
correct. But there are some issues still
1:04:11
with the, with the term a stay at home mom, some negative
1:04:14
issues associated with it. And so one I want to remind
1:04:20
anyone who's in that position you're in, because I know for me
1:04:25
it was true. I ended up getting an education
1:04:28
in areas that I wouldn't have gotten it had I stayed as a
1:04:33
corporate person, right? As a corporate person, there are
1:04:37
other skill sets that are natural and inherent in that
1:04:40
role that are very specific to that role that you don't get
1:04:44
elsewhere just by being a mom. Like, I have to learn how to
1:04:47
nurture one. It's not.
1:04:50
I was, and I don't know if you've heard this before, I was
1:04:53
voted least likely to become a mother.
1:04:55
So yeah, I mean, it's for me, it's such a joke, but I'd like
1:04:58
to throw it out there is to show the contrast.
1:05:01
Like this wasn't the natural state for me.
1:05:04
I had to learn a lot and I mean, frankly, I'd sort of learn how
1:05:09
to cook. I like do a lot of the kind of
1:05:12
things that were expected of that role.
1:05:14
And at the same time I'm like, OK, this is my role.
1:05:16
I'm going to figure it out. So that one is understanding
1:05:19
that there are things that you do there that you don't get,
1:05:22
they are learning. And then the relevant piece is
1:05:26
thinking about, well, if you do want to intersect back into a
1:05:31
professional role, corporate role there, that world is
1:05:37
learning, changing, evolving rapidly.
1:05:44
And so when you left, it was at one stage, if you want to go
1:05:47
back in, you need, it's incumbent upon you to, to keep
1:05:51
track of those learnings and, and the technologies, right,
1:05:57
Like technology is now with AI, like you can do that now as a
1:06:01
stay at home mom, you can spend some time learning it.
1:06:03
And there's enough now that we've have so much virtual
1:06:07
learning that would suggest to anyone to, you know, go find
1:06:11
some courses to take online. I did that.
1:06:14
And to understand in your stay at home caregiver role or, you
1:06:21
know, pause or whatever, I saw rules that were fun, that were
1:06:26
interesting, that were fulfilling, and where I was
1:06:30
doing things that I knew I could tangibly say, Oh yeah, that that
1:06:34
actually is good for me. In my expanded, I don't know if
1:06:38
you want to think about your professional toolkit, but I
1:06:40
taught, I think I mentioned I taught art on a volunteer basis
1:06:45
for kindergarten to 8th grade. One of the reasons is because I
1:06:48
love art history. It was great.
1:06:50
I got to learn about it, but also I got into classrooms where
1:06:54
I had to speak public speak like no one likes to public speak
1:06:57
really. I certainly didn't and I still
1:07:00
don't love it, but I know it's part of what I do.
1:07:04
And so I for eight years, a few times a year would be in
1:07:09
classrooms. And if you want to think about
1:07:11
terrifying, it's being in an eighth grade classroom with
1:07:14
students right on a topic that they don't really care about and
1:07:17
you're the volunteer teacher, you better make that
1:07:21
presentation engaging and interesting.
1:07:23
So you learn, you Start learning little tricks.
1:07:25
I mean, I think back to that. That was a great, just such a
1:07:29
great experience for me. And I also would once or twice a
1:07:33
school year teach to the adults who were going to go out into
1:07:37
the other classrooms. So just give me some great
1:07:40
experiences. I also, in another role, wrote a
1:07:46
newsletter for three years. Every week I would write a
1:07:49
condensed newsletter for all the parents in the high school.
1:07:53
So I never used to like to write, by the way.
1:07:56
So now I had to do it every single week, write something.
1:07:59
And it was a hot, like, man, that yeah, go ahead.
1:08:02
Did you did you actually pick those responsibilities yourself?
1:08:09
Like, hey, this is an area where I want slash need to grow, so
1:08:12
I'm going to pick those even though I well, quote UN quote
1:08:17
dislike it. You know, that's a great
1:08:20
question because I can history of the, you know, a hindsight is
1:08:24
2020. I can say absolutely I did.
1:08:26
Dear John. And I'm not sure that it was so
1:08:28
targeted. I'm not going to I'm not going
1:08:31
to tout my horn that I was so smart, but I definitely was
1:08:34
seeking roles that seemed that there was a challenge in them.
1:08:40
So. So yeah.
1:08:41
But I look back and I'm like, OK, every week I had to write a
1:08:45
newsletter and it was to a 400 parents who were highly
1:08:50
educated, highly involved. Like it was a beer group where I
1:08:53
thought, OK, I don't want to goof up beer.
1:08:55
No. No.
1:08:58
And I think it's really powerful that you you actually did look
1:09:02
for, let's say, a bit more challenging things.
1:09:06
And I think it's also great advice to to women are who are
1:09:10
currently struggling to maybe find a purpose.
1:09:18
Yeah, in your life, in, in, in the intermediate while also
1:09:21
raising children because it is a busy job.
1:09:24
And I think it should be paid in some shape, way, shape or form
1:09:31
beyond let's say the the usual allowance for children and for
1:09:39
for groceries, etcetera. Yeah, here in Durkan, I want to
1:09:44
add this in. And I also did, I was the the
1:09:48
party mom, the classroom mom. I was the lice patrol mom
1:09:53
because in Holland at that time, like once a month, I'd go and
1:09:57
I'd with a few other moms and we'd go through the hair of
1:10:00
kids. All those experiences teach you
1:10:02
something and and you you build a bond, a community with your
1:10:07
other parents. I would say fine that if you're
1:10:11
a stay at home mom, which is kind of like a founder by the
1:10:15
way, you're you're only a lot. You got, you know, angry, angry
1:10:20
employee, you know, your children and get some difficult
1:10:23
troops around you, highs and lows all day long.
1:10:27
So it's not too dissimilar from being a founder.
1:10:29
So find those other rolls and hats to wear that that bring you
1:10:36
the joy and happiness and are doing things that you feel are
1:10:40
expanding your one lived experience, right?
1:10:45
Because at the end of the day, and that's there's this poem, I
1:10:48
can't remember the name Mary, I think, but like we're all living
1:10:51
this one wild, crazy life. Like, how do you want to do it?
1:10:54
And I and I want to, you know, I'm, I want it all I want, I
1:10:59
want to try lots of different things.
1:11:02
Cool. So I want to shift gears.
1:11:07
Fast forward to 2032. When?
1:11:11
Women get more than a fair share of the capital, Yeah.
1:11:15
What do you hope the the venture capital ecosystem looks like
1:11:19
then, or what? Let me rephrase that.
1:11:23
How has the venture capital ecosystem changed?
1:11:27
I would say how the SO isn't that great 2032 I was trying to
1:11:32
understand how you chose that date, but I'm wondering did you
1:11:36
choose it also because the. I I started my podcast in 2022
1:11:42
and then the first one of the first guests said by 2032.
1:11:48
So into in 10 years there has to be a non issue and by extension
1:11:55
your podcast will be then be irrelevant.
1:11:58
Exactly. So that's the start of.
1:12:01
Yes, OK. And I'm also thinking because
1:12:05
the there are many reports, let's say by 2032 thirds of all
1:12:10
wealth will be held by women globally.
1:12:12
So that's a big deal, right? And venture capital is going to
1:12:18
look like what society, I hope looks like, right?
1:12:22
That we look at every individual as an individual and that
1:12:32
everyone brings his and her full self forward.
1:12:35
And it's it's just not talked about anymore, right, That you
1:12:39
have men, women investing equally across all spaces that
1:12:44
and here is in 2032. Where are we right now?
1:12:47
We're in 25 S in seven years when I really hope I in seven
1:12:51
years that we are going to have some really big exits in the
1:12:56
investments that Emmeline and firms like Emmeline are making
1:13:00
right now. Yeah, how how are exits playing
1:13:04
into, let's say, the positive image for investing in in women?
1:13:09
Oh. Yeah, really.
1:13:10
Well, no, lots of like the, the, the data are coming in that this
1:13:15
investing in the space really does pay off in the dollars and
1:13:20
cents. Yeah.
1:13:21
Because I think in the end it is about the dollars in yeah.
1:13:24
And let's just say in the EUR as.
1:13:26
Well, in the EUR, but yeah, so final question from my side, I'm
1:13:34
building a tool that connects female founders and investors
1:13:39
using AI. From your perspective, what is
1:13:44
the most important ingredient to make that tool empower female
1:13:51
founders and investors? So you're you're building, if
1:13:55
you will, like a matching agent. Yeah, yeah.
1:13:58
I, I call it a funding coach, but because it also coaches to
1:14:03
the female founder on their pitch decks and they're, let's
1:14:08
say they're the pitches that they do.
1:14:10
So basically they can upload their pitch deck or their pitch
1:14:13
and then they get feedback. But in the end, I also want to
1:14:18
make it connect. Yeah, to specific investors.
1:14:24
Well, here, and I'm not sure and I'm going to say this is what's
1:14:27
popped to the top of my head. This is a relationship business.
1:14:32
It is long term. And so I would say what's most
1:14:36
important for your tool is to ensure that all the individuals
1:14:42
on the platform, both founders and investors, don't conform to
1:14:46
a certain notion, but are allowed to actually show their
1:14:50
individuality. Because you do want the, the
1:14:52
matches have to be true. And to have a true match, you
1:14:57
need to present your true self, right?
1:15:00
Because then another thing, and it's for the founders in the
1:15:03
room who are listening, It is most important, like all the
1:15:06
advice you're going to hear from me, from Dirk Young, from
1:15:09
others, it is true. What is also true is you know
1:15:13
best who you are and what you want and what your what is best
1:15:17
for your startup. And so keep that in mind as you
1:15:23
present yourself because that energy is going to attract the
1:15:26
right money. And if if you're not attracting
1:15:30
certain certain other investors, you should be thankful because
1:15:34
they're not the right ones for you if you are presenting your
1:15:37
truest energy right. And I think it's hard from both
1:15:42
sides to recognize that to just at some point just walk away and
1:15:46
say like, this isn't right as much as I think it should be, it
1:15:49
isn't. And my better match is somewhere
1:15:51
elsewhere. Yeah, so dare to say no and walk
1:15:57
away. Yeah, yeah, as I'll tell you and
1:16:01
one of my advisors recently said, and I've read this in
1:16:04
other ways too, right, getting to a no quickly is really very
1:16:09
helpful for everyone. Yeah, because I at least, you
1:16:14
know, not to spend time with that person.
1:16:17
Yeah. Yeah.
1:16:18
So, yeah. So that's also great advice on
1:16:22
how to handle rejections, I think.
1:16:25
Yeah. So as in, thanks very much.
1:16:29
Really appreciate this, this conversation.
1:16:31
If people want to learn more about you, about Emmeline and of
1:16:36
course, the movie and the book, show her the money.
1:16:39
Where do you want to send them? I think the best and easiest
1:16:42
place would be LinkedIn. So yeah, thank you.
1:16:46
And I'm the only Azine Ratson. Then all the bake.
1:16:51
To my knowledge, I'm the only one who holds all four of those
1:16:53
names. Combination of my Persian
1:16:56
background and my Dutch assumed background.
1:17:00
So thank you. And dear Count, it's really been
1:17:02
great. A pleasure.
1:17:03
Thank you for your questions and for your thoughtfulness and for
1:17:07
truly getting me to think about a few things that I hadn't
1:17:10
thought about before. So thank you.
1:17:12
OK, well, that's that's cool to hear.
1:17:14
So Azin Ratzen from Arabic. Thanks very much for the
1:17:19
conversation. Listeners.
1:17:21
Thank you very much for listening.
1:17:22
And until the next episode, as always, keep being awesome.
1:17:32
Well, that's a wrap for episode 123 of Women Disrupting Tech
1:17:37
with Azine Ratzen von Allenberg titled How showing her the money
1:17:42
Changes Venture Capital Azine. And I hope that you found our
1:17:46
conversation as engaging and inspiring as we intended it to
1:17:50
be. And if you have any questions
1:17:52
for Azine, please share them in the comments on Spotify, Apple,
1:17:56
or YouTube. I'll make sure you'll receive an
1:17:59
answer when you want to connect with ASIN or learn more about
1:18:04
Emmeline Ventures or find out where you can watch the movie,
1:18:07
Show her the money. Please check out the links in
1:18:10
the show notes. And as usual, you can find the
1:18:12
show notes at Women Disrupting Tactile Blog.
1:18:15
Find a link in the caption. If you've enjoyed listening to
1:18:19
this episode, please consider leaving a rating or a review on
1:18:23
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1:18:26
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1:18:33
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1:18:57
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1:19:01
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On Sub Stack, you'll find in depth stories in behind the
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1:19:37
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