Latest / She’s Smart / Michelle Yun Mapplethorpe - Making Art Accessible

Transcript

Michelle Yun Mapplethorpe - Making Art Accessible · She’s Smart

0:02
Hey, everybody. Welcome to She's Smart. I'm your host, Maria Robotham.
0:06
Each week, we sit down with incredible women to talk about life,
0:10
work, and everything in between.
0:15
Today's guest is someone whose depth, talent, and perspective left me inspired
0:20
long after our conversation ended.
0:23
Michelle Yun-Maplethorpe has spent her life immersed in art,
0:26
creating it, interpreting it, championing it, and now leads the Katona Museum
0:31
of Art as director and chief curator.
0:34
Her path through museums, galleries, global programs, and creative work is extraordinary.
0:40
Michelle's background includes leadership roles at the Asia Society Museum,
0:44
Hunter College Art Galleries, MoMA, and projects that span continents.
0:48
What I loved most about this conversation is how humid it is.
0:52
Michelle talks about growing up with tiger parents, discovering art as both
0:57
an emotional and intellectual refuge, her years creating and curating at MoMA.
1:02
Her global work, and what it really means to be a curator.
1:05
The vision, the rigor, the storytelling, the craft.
1:09
We explore how to actually look at art, how to start collecting it,
1:13
why galleries can feel intimidating and why they shouldn't, and the future of
1:18
exhibitions, including how music and the senses can transform the way we experience visual work.
1:24
This episode feels like a deep breath, full of insight, warmth,
1:29
and the kind of presence that stays with you.
1:31
Michelle has a way of opening doors into art, creativity, and community that
1:36
makes everything feel accessible and alive.
1:38
So get cozy as we connect, learn, and laugh together on She's Smart with the
1:44
incredible Michelle Yun-Maplethorpe.
2:13
Get there yet. It might be next year. So that was pretty incredible.
2:17
And then this season, as I go through it, it's like, what am I curious about? What do I want to know?
2:23
And that's the whole thing that started. I just was so curious.
2:26
I'm like, am I going to go back to school? Absolutely not. I don't have time
2:28
for that, but I can be educated and so can all of us.
2:32
And I love your premise about just building community and growing together.
2:36
It's really so wonderful and inspiring.
2:39
So I'm really honored to be a part of your community. Thank you.
2:43
Thank you for being here.
2:44
First, I read your bio, which is very short considering all the things you've done.
2:49
It's a very short bio for what you've actually accomplished in your life.
2:53
This article that came out in the Bedford Magazine is really an incredible piece
2:59
on you and really does justice to how much you have done in your life.
3:04
Oh, thank you. This is what I love so much about being here in Weston.
3:07
The women who live here, you would have no idea.
3:11
100%. It's like, this is so-and-so's mom or it's part of the whatever at school.
3:17
But then it's like, they have these great career. I mean, you too.
3:19
It's like, you know, you're amazing. It's crazy.
3:22
So I sit here and I'm like, we see each other at pickup. We'll see each other
3:26
at this. Like, Harrison knows Grayson. They're in school.
3:29
But you don't necessarily get to have the time to sit down and actually get
3:33
to know someone. And then someone's like, wait, do you know what she does?
3:36
I'm like, oh, my God, no. What does she do?
3:38
And then you're like, I need more information.
3:40
So I found this to be incredible. And this article is beautiful.
3:42
I'm actually going to link it so that everyone can read it. Oh,
3:45
that's great. Thank you. I mean, it's such a special article.
3:48
You have this amazing background, MoMA, Asia Society.
3:53
You've done independent curating. You've done global programs.
3:57
What drew you to art? And at what age did you start looking at it and being
4:02
like, I really enjoy this?
4:03
I mean, I have always been interested in art since I was little.
4:09
My parents were immigrant parents, total tiger parents, so I probably did almost
4:15
every kind of activity you could name at some level.
4:18
Very early on, they exposed me to art, music, and dance.
4:22
Arts and culture have always been an integral part of my life and something I really enjoyed.
4:28
Grew a passion for, especially in relation to all the academics my parents made me focus on.
4:34
I think with that initial interest where I went to high school and then undergrad
4:39
and, you know, subsequent to that really kind of tailored my education towards
4:45
delving deeper into the arts. So you went to Mount Holyoke?
4:49
I did. My sister-in-law went there. Oh, really? Okay. And being from California,
4:53
I don't know any of the East Coast colleges except for like Harvard and Dartmouth, like the big ones.
4:58
So when I saw that, I was like, oh, Erin went there. So Erin,
5:01
you have a Mount Holyoke girl on the podcast today.
5:04
Mount Holyoke's the first all-women's college in the country.
5:07
It was founded in 1837 and was part of the sister schools to the Ivy Leagues
5:14
before women were allowed to go to the Ivy.
5:16
So there's lots of traditions, which I thought was really interesting,
5:19
but she loves it. She has such great memories. I'm still involved.
5:23
I just recently stepped off the board of the museum and I'm on the nominating
5:27
committee for all the honorary degrees. It's nice to be still connected.
5:32
That's really fun. Does that entail for you to do that? Are they sending you
5:36
profiles throughout the year? Yes.
5:38
So there's a pipeline and people nominate honorees for all the various categories.
5:44
We meet quarterly. It's kind of an all-day session.
5:48
Beforehand, we have our assigned candidates do the due diligence and then we
5:53
present whether we think they're ready or, you know, if they're the right fit
5:57
or if there's other people that we come across that we think would be a nice candidate as well.
6:03
And so we hash out all of the candidates and then make the proposal to the trustees,
6:07
and then they make the final selection.
6:10
But it is really wonderful just to kind of, again, to your point,
6:12
like, see all the incredible work that women are doing and our fellow alums.
6:18
It's really startling and inspiring.
6:20
Yeah. It's pretty cool to be a part of that. When you look back,
6:23
you've lived in all these parts of the world. You've worked in museums, galleries, academia.
6:28
You've done global programming. Is there...
6:32
Something that's linear or like a series of moments that led you in the direction
6:36
of what you're doing now, being the curator of the Katona Art Museum.
6:40
Was it something you always wanted to do, be a curator? I was always on the fence.
6:44
From when I was very young, my parents instilled in me the importance of academia
6:48
and the intellectual side of things.
6:51
But there was also that really deep interest and passion in the making part of things.
6:56
In high school, I went to Cranbrook, which is very rigorous academically,
7:01
but also has a strong arts program and a graduate school for fine arts.
7:06
I think that's where that dichotomy started, wanting to be an artist,
7:11
but also understanding the importance of the academic side of things.
7:15
When I went to Mount Holyoke, I continued on that track, focused on both studio
7:19
art and art history, among other areas of focus.
7:22
And then when I graduated from undergrad, I should step back,
7:27
when I was in college in the summers, I would intern at galleries in the city.
7:33
In New York City, rather.
7:35
And so, you know, started dipping my toe into the field in a,
7:39
you know, in a very direct way.
7:41
When I graduated, my parents were living in Shanghai at the time,
7:44
and I was going to live with them for a year and perfect my Chinese.
7:48
It was such a wonderful opportunity.
7:51
I hadn't lived with them since I was 14 because I went to boarding school.
7:54
And so just kind of at that time, going back to the nest and then also being
7:59
in China in the mid-90s where it was not so open as it is now.
8:03
And my parents, you know, they're both from mainland China, but they went as
8:07
expats and lived in a foreign compound. I spent the summer with them and I was
8:11
like, you know, this isn't quite for me.
8:13
I'm back to New York and started working in a gallery, but also had a little
8:18
studio and was making my own work and trying to get into shows.
8:21
That first summer after being in the city, I got a residency at Vermont Studio Center.
8:27
And so I was up there. And while I was up there.
8:31
The opportunity to apply for a fellowship at MoMA in the painting and sculpture department.
8:36
And so I was like, oh, and my like artist hat, I was like, it's a great opportunity
8:40
to like meet all the curators and like show them my work.
8:44
And, you know, and there was also that part of me that was really interested in museum work.
8:48
I got the fellowship. It was a year long opportunity and I ended up staying
8:53
in the painting and sculpture department for the next nine years.
8:57
In the beginning, I was still very much balanced between fine art and art history
9:03
and was really trying to decide between the two.
9:07
But then I decided to go back to graduate school and I applied to an MFA and
9:13
got into the Art Institute of
9:14
Chicago and also applied to art history programs and I got into Columbia.
9:19
I was a little bit wary to go back to the Midwest because I was born in Michigan
9:23
and I had really started establishing roots in the city. I loved my
9:27
work at MoMA, it's very hard to get into some of these positions.
9:32
I really wanted to maintain my career path, so I made the decision to go on
9:38
the art historical track.
9:39
I continued to work full-time at MoMA and then went part-time to Columbia to get my graduate degree.
9:45
And what were you creating for your art? What medium were you using?
9:49
Both painting and sculpture, oil painting and encaustic.
9:52
With sculpture, I was using a lot of alternative materials, a lot of textiles and things.
9:57
More recently, I started making jewelry.
10:00
I still do have that creative impulse, although in my current capacity as director
10:05
and chief curator at the KMA, there's limited bandwidth. And also, as you know, being a mom.
10:12
So how do you fit it all in, right? Yeah.
10:15
Do you miss it, though? Do you miss using your hands? I do.
10:19
I really would love to be able to carve out more time. Yeah, we need it.
10:24
Viscerality and tactility and just kind of using a different part of your brain.
10:28
But I do have to say that, you know, having that practical knowledge really has...
10:35
Enhanced my ability to work as a curator and especially working with contemporary
10:40
artists to be able to understand their perspective, understand kind of the material
10:46
elements of what we're showing.
10:49
Like designing clothes. If you start off as a pattern maker and you're working
10:53
in the fabric and then you're sewing things and you're understanding how it
10:57
is actually constructed, how do you actually properly sew two pieces of fabric together?
11:02
Not one direction, the other direction. All of that. And then you design clothes.
11:06
You already understand all the jobs that people are doing and all the work that goes into it.
11:11
I'm assuming it also gives you a better appreciation of what the artist is doing
11:16
and what they've created.
11:17
Definitely. It definitely gives a whole other dimension and appreciation for
11:21
the work. Are there... Oh, God, I have so many questions for you.
11:24
So the word curator. Tell us about that because someone told me,
11:30
I can't remember who told me this, but they said you can't buy art because you're a curator.
11:34
So you have to debunk that or actually tell me if it's true or not.
11:37
What does a curator do? Sure.
11:38
I think that's a great question because right now in the zeitgeist,
11:41
everybody's a curator. You can curate your closet, you can curate your books.
11:44
And so I think really kind of it's taken out of context.
11:48
I appreciate the fact that people are interested in curatorial practices or
11:54
that That that word is more in the mainstream.
11:58
But it is really quite specific. It takes a lot of rigorous training,
12:03
both in terms of, you know,
12:06
art historical knowledge and dexterity,
12:09
but then also a fundamental understanding of kind of spatiality,
12:14
of kind of...
12:16
Aesthetics, how to deal with work, how it functions in the reality of a space.
12:22
When I think about putting together exhibitions and engaging audiences,
12:26
it really is holistic and begins even before somebody steps into the museum.
12:32
It's like, how do you get people excited?
12:34
What can you do in terms of outreach that draws people?
12:38
And I think fundamentally, it's like, when I think about working with artists.
12:43
It's like, what about this artist moves the needle?
12:46
Or what about their work is innovative and can bring a fresh perspective,
12:51
you know, inspiration or a deeper understanding of a certain area or idea to the audience?
12:59
What really is the hook?
13:01
Is the work compelling? Is it well-made technically?
13:06
Is it, you know, engaging with people? You know, is it, is their practice over time, you know,
13:14
substantial enough, you know, that it's not just they made one really great
13:17
piece and that's it, but they really have to have a track record and a consistency
13:22
of vision, execution, messaging, and vision.
13:28
Contextualizing that person within, you know, I think a socio-political milieu.
13:33
And what I love about contemporary artists, again, is, you know,
13:38
I feel like artists are really such a mirror to our society and they really
13:42
hold up, you know, through their work, kind of a reflection of what's going
13:46
on in the world around us, thinking about how,
13:50
The works you choose can make a compelling narrative that can not just inform
13:57
the viewer about the artists and their ideas,
14:01
but then also reflect what's going on in the world around them or give context
14:07
or insight into a certain culture or way of thinking.
14:11
That really has to be part of the conversation also.
14:14
Yeah. And you do this three years ahead of time. Yes, we tried to build the
14:19
program out three years because it takes time, especially when you make books.
14:24
That usually takes at least a year getting the funding in place.
14:28
And when I think about our program, you know, in my director hat,
14:33
you really want to make a coherent and varied exhibition program.
14:38
So we're thinking holistically about not just, again, that project,
14:41
but how does it align with what other exhibitions you're putting forth this
14:47
year and this balance between thematic or monographic and thinking about genres,
14:52
different types of material, different historical periods.
14:55
So you really want to think about building a compelling and broad.
15:01
In-depth program over time.
15:03
I mean, that's incredible. For three years, you're working on something.
15:05
It's like building a house. Oh, totally. And you're waiting for all the pieces to come together.
15:09
And then you're also predicting...
15:13
That three years out, this is what's going to be happening. Like there was a
15:16
woman that when I was at the Fashion Institute, we would listen to her.
15:19
Faith Popcorn, I think her name was.
15:22
I'll look it up. But she was one of the preeminent trend predictions.
15:26
And this woman would literally predict all the things. It was like what Doniger
15:30
became. She was like before Doniger.
15:32
Wow. And I used to be fascinated by it because it was like what WGSN is now.
15:37
They're already saying what colors are going to be and textures are going to be.
15:40
And they're looking at the world at large. God, I wish we all had access to WGSN.
15:45
Can you imagine? I remember being in school and looking at that website every
15:50
single day, being enthralled by the colors and the visions and what they thought was coming next.
15:57
When you leave school, you don't get access anymore unless you can pay thousands of dollars.
16:00
As like a broke, just like out of school student, you're like barely getting women's wear daily.
16:05
How fun would it be if we could all have that foresight? Not all of us get to
16:10
travel, which is another question for you is all the travel you get to do,
16:14
but not all of us get to travel.
16:16
And I feel like those travel experiences and seeing different cultures and different
16:20
types, what people are wearing, what they're drawing, what they're making,
16:23
what they're eating, it all tells such a great story and where things are going. Oh, totally.
16:29
Yes, completely. And it really informs you so much about your own community as well.
16:33
I just came back on Friday from a two-week trip to Japan, which was really amazing
16:39
and inspiring, restorative in terms of ideas and where I am in my personal and professional life.
16:47
Oh, that's on our list. To go to Japan.
16:51
Yeah. No, it was amazing. It was a bike trip. And we cycled about 100 miles.
16:56
And we started in Tokyo. We went to Nikko, Kyoto, Hiroshima,
17:01
and then the Seto Island, inland sea islands.
17:06
There's a very famous Viking trail that people take a pilgrimage to.
17:11
So I was very, very fortunate to be able to.
17:14
Yeah, I'm to participate in that. I don't bike. I spin.
17:18
Okay. I'm a biker. So sometimes Peloton, you know, they have the ones where
17:23
you can ride through someplace.
17:24
And I wonder if they have that on their list of places that they've biked through.
17:28
Not yet. Because actually I trained on my Peloton. Do this ride.
17:32
I'm not a biker either. I really wanted to take full advantage of this wonderful
17:38
opportunity that I was invited to participate in.
17:41
And so I did. I did those Peloton classes. Class is weird. I was like,
17:45
okay, now we're going in Montenegro or whatever.
17:48
And I was pretending that I was on the south. A little taste.
17:52
Well, my best friend's mom, hi Cheryl, they used to go on bike trips through Italy every year.
17:58
And they had a group of friends and they would all go to Italy and bike in different places.
18:03
I think it's the coolest way to explore a place.
18:07
Yes. Also feel like you're moving around a little bit. Being a tourist in that
18:10
way is very fun. Wherever I'm at, I go running, which you've lived in Paris.
18:14
You look crazy as the American running the Seine. By the way,
18:19
I looked crazy, but I was fine with it.
18:21
They felt like what a great way to move, explore and see stuff.
18:24
I always find myself being attracted to that way of travel.
18:28
Yeah. I mean, this was my first active travel experience and I really appreciated
18:33
it so much because when you're on the bike, at least for me and other people
18:37
that I am around, we're on our phones all the time.
18:40
Even when we're traveling. It's like, oh, let's take a picture of this.
18:43
Let's video this. It's very hard to be present in the moment.
18:46
I really found and appreciated so much that when you're on the bike, you can't.
18:51
Access your phone. You don't want to get off your bike every two minutes to document something.
18:55
And so the way that you're perceiving your environment and the way that you
19:01
are understanding and digesting the experience is wonderful. And you're so present.
19:06
It really forces you to engage with the world around you in real time. All your senses.
19:11
Exactly. All your senses. We went on our honeymoon to the south of France.
19:15
There was this beautiful trail.
19:18
Ben was like, I'm not running with you. I'm like, well, I'm off.
19:20
I'm going for it. And I still remember how it felt.
19:23
I can't put myself there. I'm in that space. I know what felt to run, get around the corner.
19:27
It just opens up into the water. I really miss those moments where you aren't
19:32
on your phone staring at and taking it all in because we don't get a lot of those.
19:36
I've never thought about that. I've thought about this in a really long time.
19:39
You don't get all those senses.
19:41
Definitely. I think that's what I love about working with visual art,
19:45
you really have to engage with your body.
19:47
Like you're engaging with your eyes.
19:50
Oftentimes, if it's a multimedia piece with your ears, like you are understanding
19:54
your body in relation to the physicality of the artwork.
19:58
There is a study that most people engage with artworks for less than 30 seconds.
20:04
With exhibitions, hopefully, they really invite you to contemplate,
20:09
slow down and take time to appreciate the work and what's going on in your mind
20:15
as you're looking at these objects and trying to digest them.
20:18
Another question that I had for you was, when you're looking at art, so I will go to museums.
20:23
I lived in Italy and would go to the Uffizi every single day.
20:27
It was my favorite place to visit.
20:28
And we went to Rome and I got to see Bernini's sculptures, which is amazing.
20:33
OMG, my dad almost touched one. I know, they're so seductive,
20:38
right? Just like, how can this be stoned?
20:40
He didn't think it was, he was like, there's no way. And he's Italian.
20:43
And he's like, literally trying to reach his hand out. I'm like,
20:47
oh my God, don't touch it.
20:48
I totally forgot that story. But the weight of the sculptures,
20:53
they can't put too many people in the building because literally the weight
20:56
of the sculptures is so heavy, the building will start to sink.
20:59
So there's a number of people. I mean, that's just incredible for me.
21:02
How old are those that have lasted this long?
21:05
So when you go into these places, I've only been enamored with a few things with art.
21:12
Bernini is one of them. It stuck with me since I was 19 and had traveled Italy.
21:16
And then Uffizi with Michelangelo and all of the paintings.
21:20
How do people know, or when people are sitting there, is there a way you're supposed to look at art?
21:27
Is it supposed to hit you in different ways? Sometimes I sit and I'll look at
21:30
something and I'll be like, it doesn't speak to me.
21:32
But there are other ones that I'll look at and I'll be like,
21:35
oh my God, I love this. But someone else doesn't. So what is that?
21:39
I think that's really the beauty of art in all its forms.
21:43
It is so subjected and personal and there really is no one way that you should
21:48
engage or appreciate it.
21:51
That's what's so wonderful too about just the scope of artists and that creative process.
21:56
I feel like everybody has the potential to create and contribute to the world
22:03
through music, visual art, or their voice.
22:07
I think you can engage with literature or visual art or music in different ways
22:12
at different points in your life.
22:13
It can mean different things to you at different times. And I think that's totally fine.
22:20
And I,
22:23
people will be able to break free from is this kind of idea that art is elitist
22:29
or that you have to think in a certain way or have all these prerequisites of
22:34
knowledge to be able to understand work.
22:36
I think with some contemporary art, yes, it's very conceptual and it's sometimes
22:40
too self-referential and, you know,
22:43
there's different layers and nuances of meaning that you can get depending on
22:48
your understanding and knowledge of that artist or the ideas that they're talking about.
22:52
But at face value, if you don't know anything, you can still engage and appreciate
22:56
it on whatever terms you feel comfortable with.
23:00
I feel sad that people feel intimidated to come to museums or that they feel
23:05
like, you know, they don't know enough to appreciate it. So.
23:10
You know, museums are such a great resource. There's opportunities to do pay
23:14
as you wish or whatever, but they're so egalitarian, like they're there as a
23:18
resource to educate and to inspire people.
23:20
So I hope that more people appreciate it and kind of engage with that spirit
23:25
and not feel intimidated.
23:27
Yeah, me too. Because think about it, you're bringing in
23:30
pieces that probably cost millions of
23:33
dollars that not like 0.01% of
23:37
the population could purchase at a Sotheby's auction or something or
23:39
from a gallery and you're opening it up so people can enjoy
23:42
it and look at it and learn like why wouldn't
23:46
we want to do that and I don't know
23:48
why that is like I think we all need to be going to museums more or galleries
23:53
more I've always felt very intimidated by galleries we were up in near Manchester
23:57
okay and there was a gallery there and this woman owns it I'm terrible with
24:02
names I feel terrible because she was lovely her and her husband have been in the art world forever.
24:07
They know everyone in New York City. I walked in and she's sitting at the desk
24:12
and it wasn't pretentious.
24:13
She was welcoming everyone in. There were local artists and there were sculptures and woodwork.
24:18
I was like, this is very cool. She's like, my husband and I, this is what we do now.
24:22
He's in the city sometimes. That felt so approachable to me, that kind of space.
24:28
It didn't feel like I was not going to, I was going to be out of place.
24:31
Like that you weren't allowed to. Like I wasn't allowed in there.
24:33
Well, and I think to your point, I can understand how galleries could feel intimidating.
24:38
But they're such a great resource.
24:39
Galleries are free. Anybody can go in. You don't have to pay admission.
24:42
Many times, gallerists want people to learn more about the artists they represent.
24:47
And so they're very happy to educate you and get you excited about the artwork
24:52
and the artists they're representing.
24:54
I think you just have to be a little brave and not intimidated.
24:58
It's such a wonderful resource for people to learn more about.
25:02
Everything. Art for people who want to purchase art or get involved in that. I don't own any art.
25:08
It's not I would love to. I don't know anything about it. My husband has a different
25:12
idea of what he likes than what I like. I love photography.
25:17
Photography speaks to me. I love capturing an image.
25:20
I don't know how to do it, but I love people who do it, which is hysterical
25:24
that your husband and brother-in-law are photographers. Yeah.
25:27
When it comes to art for your home, how do we
25:30
even go about looking for it if you don't have
25:33
a big budget for art it's interesting to you and
25:36
you want to put something in there i wouldn't know the first thing
25:39
about where to start yeah i think that's where going
25:42
to galleries and walking around and getting a sense because there's such a broad
25:46
swath of types of artwork and artists that the galleries are featuring in a
25:52
very concentrated area thinking about new york specifically and chelsea or the
25:56
upper east side or now Tribeca or, you know, areas of Brooklyn,
26:00
like there's very concentrated neighborhoods where you can just kind of walk
26:04
the streets, go into galleries and get a sense of what speaks to you.
26:09
And I think, you know, if you're just starting to collect, there's a very high
26:13
end galleries, but so many galleries are working with emerging artists or more
26:18
affordable art. I think just.
26:20
Educating yourself. Many major
26:21
collectors started out with modest collecting when they were younger.
26:25
For example, Leonard Lauder, whose Klimt just went for a record price at Sotheby's
26:30
earlier this week, when he was a boy, he started collecting postcards.
26:33
Very few people start collecting at a very high level.
26:37
People ease into it. So many collectors are self-taught through their passion.
26:42
I've worked with many collectors and engaged with them over my time working
26:47
in the art field. And, you know, it's very similar origin stories that people
26:52
were interested, but they didn't know.
26:54
And so they started going to galleries and they started understanding,
26:57
like, what kind of work they liked, if it was abstract or figurative or,
27:01
you know, works on paper that they started out with. I mean,
27:05
oftentimes people start with prints because that's the most affordable.
27:08
It's the easiest thing that you can put in your house. Sculptures can be a little
27:12
unwieldy and more expensive in terms of both, you know, the object,
27:16
but also, you know, if you need rigging or whatever to install it.
27:20
So, you know, I think what I would recommend is maybe, you know,
27:24
start with prints because they're affordable.
27:26
If you make a mistake in terms of something that you don't love,
27:29
then it's not a huge financial outlay.
27:33
Get a sense of what speaks to you and what you love being around,
27:38
what makes you happy to see every day.
27:41
Art fairs are also really helpful. You can see so much in a very condensed space.
27:47
Space and period of time. Yeah, for sure. That's a good call.
27:51
So I would really recommend that. And there's so many art fairs that happen in the city.
27:56
I host tours of art fairs all the time. In the fall, I hosted curated walkthrough
28:01
of the Armory Show and the Independent Modern.
28:04
Then in the spring, there's Freeze, there's Independent.
28:08
There is also TAFAF, which is a fabulous fair.
28:12
And each one is slightly different. There's also the affordable art
28:15
fair yes i remember that one yeah there's like the
28:18
print fair so there's lots of different outlets
28:22
for people who may have different price points or
28:25
degrees of interest or knowledge of the art a big art fair up in rhode island
28:32
wickford art fair and i go every year i didn't even it didn't even like they
28:36
didn't register to me that that is a place where i literally walk through every
28:39
single booth i'm like oh that's pretty i like that oh that's cute i've purchased tiny things.
28:45
One of my friends, her mom passed away and she comes back as a hummingbird to
28:49
visit her. I found this really beautiful painting of hummingbird.
28:52
It was very small, but I got that for her. And I was like, that spoke to me because it spoke to her.
28:57
So all of those pieces are really
28:59
like connecting with it. So I'm actually figuring it out. Yeah, exactly.
29:03
That's such an organic way to go about it. You know, art is so subjective.
29:08
So you don't need to like things that may be in vogue at this time.
29:12
It's like, you really have to, you know, whatever resonates with you and speaks to you.
29:17
That's got it. The most important part. Someday I'll get something fantastic.
29:21
And again, I think museums are so important in terms of educating yourself because
29:26
museums often focus on certain artists or periods and movements or geographical locations.
29:31
So if you're trying to navigate what might be interesting to you, it's such a great.
29:38
Resource to learn and then piece that together.
29:42
So right now, you're inside of the Katona Art Museum.
29:47
There is an exhibit that goes until mid-April. You have to pronounce the name for me.
29:52
Shenway. Yeah. And what, for this one exhibit, it's going to travel after this, right?
29:57
It goes to another place. It's a joint exhibition with the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.
30:02
Half the exhibition is at the KMA and half at the Picantico Center in Tarrytown.
30:07
It's been a wonderful partnership with them.
30:10
They've been extremely generous in terms of their support of Shen Wei and our project.
30:15
It's a wonderful opportunity to engage Westchester County more broadly and touch
30:21
new audiences that perhaps either of our venues don't have as much engagement with up to now. Yeah.
30:27
And when people are going into that one exhibit, it's something that the way
30:31
you have curated it, there's a story you're telling with it that you want people
30:35
to look through and have a feeling afterwards or think about.
30:38
I think with Shen Wei specifically, he's been creating work for over 50 years.
30:45
He started at the age of nine, studying Chinese opera, but also starting to
30:50
train in Chinese calligraphy and traditional painting.
30:54
What's so interesting about him is how fundamentally...
30:59
Interdisciplinary his work is. He is better known as a choreographer.
31:05
For example, he was the choreographer for part of the opening ceremonies for
31:10
the Beijing Olympics in 2008.
31:12
Yeah, and you got to be a part of that. Yes, I was, peripherally.
31:15
My boss at the time, Tsai Kuo-chang, was the director of visual and special
31:18
effects for the opening and closing ceremonies. So he invited Shen Wei to participate
31:23
in the opening ceremonies.
31:24
And that was such a magical time. We had been working also in tandem with the
31:31
Guggenheim to organize Tsai's mid-career retrospective.
31:36
And that traveled to the National Art Museum of China as part of the Cultural Olympiad.
31:41
And then went on to the Guggenheim Bilbao. That was such a spectacular project
31:45
to work on that touched on so many things in terms of, you know, you know.
31:49
Cultural diplomacy, you know, because we partnered with the Ministry of Culture,
31:53
thinking about just kind of working on a global scale, thinking about context
31:57
and audience from, you know, the audience in New York at the Guggenheim to the
32:02
Chinese audience, what would resonate with them.
32:05
Also thinking about curatorial practice. The Guggenheim is such a specific architectural
32:09
space that the architecture is so strong, you have to be a very strong artist
32:14
to have a presence and for your work to control the space.
32:17
Installing the work in that context, as opposed to at the National Art Museum
32:22
of China, it was like much more of a white cube space.
32:24
Thinking about how that narrative shifts and keeping the premise intact when
32:30
you're moving these works and the exhibition, you know, in toto from one context to the other.
32:37
But back to Shen Wei, in terms of our exhibition, because we had this wonderful
32:43
opportunity to work across two venues, we divided up the works.
32:48
At the KMA, the focus is much more on the relationship of music and Shen Wei's
32:54
choreographic practice to his visual art practice,
32:57
and also the relationship to calligraphy and mark making on his painting.
33:03
And then at the Picantico Center, the focus is much more on nature and is looking
33:09
at his recent paintings.
33:11
So that's kind of how we explain it. You can go see both places.
33:16
Yes. I would love to see that with the music that's brought in.
33:19
I'm assuming you're playing the music well.
33:21
What we've done is we're trying to be sensitive to different audiences because
33:25
some people are more sensitive to music. So we put QR codes on the labels.
33:30
You can scan it on your phone and listen at your leisure, at the volume or at the pace you want.
33:35
You can still experience it in real time as you're looking at the paintings.
33:39
But, you know, that way it's not distracting for people that may not want to have that.
33:43
Engagement. That's so smart. You can have your headphones on walking through. That's very cool.
33:48
I would love to look at art while we're listening to music the whole time. Could you imagine that?
33:52
Like if you were to go into a Jackson Pollock, what kind of music would be?
33:56
Oh, that's what we did with Ali Banasadar, a Persian-American artist who we showed in the spring.
34:01
He's also a DJ and he made a soundtrack. We made a QR code so if people wanted
34:05
to, they could listen to the soundtrack that he created for the show.
34:10
And so I think it's, You know, I think there's so many different ways now that
34:14
you can think about experiencing art that are more kind of interdisciplinary
34:19
or kind of bring in other dimensions, you know.
34:22
Like the Brooklyn Museum, I know they have done some really wonderful projects with soundtracks.
34:28
Like with David Bowie, they had the headphones that you could listen to his
34:31
music as you were going through the exhibition.
34:33
More recently with Swizz Beatz and Alicia Keys, when they showed their collection,
34:37
they had curated a soundtrack. I really like how museums and curators are bringing
34:44
in other dimensions to experience.
34:47
I think that's so cool. Yeah. Looking at something and then listening to music
34:50
while you're looking at it. It changes it. Oh, totally.
34:53
It brings all these other connotations to mind. Now I'm going to get a piece
34:56
and there's going to be a soundtrack to it.
34:58
That's very cool. So when you come into my house, you have to listen to the
35:00
music while you're looking at the piece. That's a very cool concept.
35:04
It's like a whole, that's a whole new realm I never even thought about.
35:07
So after this Shen Wei exhibit, you're tying in the 250 years of the United
35:13
States independence with the John Jay homestead.
35:15
Yes. And this is fascinating because we live...
35:18
In a place that was started during the Revolution.
35:22
I know, right? During the Revolutionary War. The house I live in will be 260
35:26
years old next year. Really? Yes.
35:29
It's incredible. And there's a story behind it. There's a history behind it.
35:32
And there's so many. Do you have ghosts in your house? No, this one's not haunted. Okay.
35:35
And I'm very sensitive, as everyone who listens to this podcast knows,
35:38
because I talk about it all the time, I'm really sensitive to spirits.
35:41
So I can sense them in a good and bad way.
35:44
And this place has the best vibe. Oh, that's amazing. And the story behind it,
35:48
Every Weston man was drafted.
35:50
And so the day of the draft, they were missing like 11 of the men and they didn't know where they were.
35:57
Well, they were in the basement of this house drunk as skunks.
36:00
Because before they were like in the basement drinking.
36:04
I'm like, well, this is the house for me. This is a party house.
36:06
This makes sense. But there's so much history here.
36:09
And I love the idea of bringing this during that time and tying it in.
36:13
Have you been thinking about this for a really long time and curating it and everything else?
36:18
We have been thinking about how to engage because Bedford and Katona have such
36:23
a great history from revolutionary times.
36:25
And, you know, John Jay is one of the founding fathers.
36:27
Like his homestead is just down the street from the museum. It's a wonderful
36:31
opportunity to partner with the friends of John Jay Homestead,
36:34
especially at this timely celebratory moment for the country.
36:38
We're tying it in with the larger town celebrations in the region.
36:43
Hopefully will be an anchor for the celebrations. The opening will be June 28th.
36:49
And so that week leading up to the 4th, we'll have lots of different festivities.
36:53
And we thought with this project to really think about the founding period and
37:00
the meaning of that through material culture, furniture, decorative arts, artifacts, papers.
37:07
The books they were reading, to give a visceral sense of how what people lived
37:12
with reflected their life.
37:14
Philosophy, their ethics, you know, just kind of their outlook on the world
37:19
and how that kind of reflected on the founding of our country and how that resonates to today.
37:26
And so we invited a guest curator, Grant Kortumis, from the Richard Hampton Jenrette Foundation.
37:32
He's really an expert in this area to curate this for us. So it's going to be really exciting.
37:38
Oh, it's going to be so cool. Do you know Mary Claire? She's a steward of her house.
37:42
So her house is well over 200 years old. And she finds all the artifacts in the house.
37:49
She is going to love this exhibit. That's amazing.
37:53
She did a whole exhibit of all the things she has found and of the house at
37:58
the Western Historical Society.
38:00
Oh, that's so cool. She had a whole thing there. This is right up her alley
38:03
and the things that she looks for.
38:04
I mean, I love that your house is a revolutionary house and other ones on your
38:08
street are. because I would love to do as part of the exhibition,
38:11
you know, a series of private house tours of other homes from that period.
38:17
There's a great picture of the house when it was first photographed and talks
38:20
about the gentleman drinking in the basement.
38:23
I love that. There's so much. That's such a great idea.
38:27
I love that. Well, you'll have to come and celebrate with that.
38:30
Oh, absolutely. I'll come back from Rhode Island because I really want to see it for sure.
38:33
It's going to be really amazing. Oh, my God. We've been talking for almost an hour. Oh, really?
38:36
Isn't that amazing? This is how much fun this is. It goes by so fast.
38:40
I love that. There's so many.
38:41
You have such great thoughts about everything. And it's been really great to
38:44
converse with people. I'm so glad.
38:46
I'm so glad. Wait, before you go, I always ask my guests three questions.
38:49
Sure. I'll also post the museum at the bottom so people know about it. And the exhibits.
38:54
This is so fun. And I can't wait to read my book. I can't wait to flip through
38:58
that. Well, I can't wait. I would love to continue our conversation offline.
39:01
Okay, so at the end, I always ask three questions. The first question is,
39:04
is there anything that's fun that you're looking forward to on your bucket list?
39:08
One thing, I mean, I have traveled very widely, but one continent that I haven't been to is Africa.
39:14
And so I really, when I was away, I met some South Africans that do safari.
39:21
And so I would like to, my next big trip will be a safari slash wine and art tour in South Africa.
39:31
Like starting in Cape Town and then kind of doing that trifecta of things.
39:36
That's my next goal. That's amazing. And yes, safari is on my list.
39:40
It has been since I hated zoos since I was a child.
39:43
I don't like zoos. And I get that they're there to help, but they're not all great.
39:47
And I have a real problem with animals in captivity. I've actually picketed
39:50
against them when I was younger.
39:52
I was like, this is not okay. I think over time, there has been much more sensitivity
39:57
in terms of creating natural habitats and just kind of being more respectful to the animals.
40:03
They're you know that is actually someone i should
40:06
probably have on is someone who runs a zoo and ask
40:10
them all these questions they probably really not like me at
40:12
the end but i mean but they could learn yeah like what really happens nowadays
40:17
yeah i think it's very different like before when we were little probably it
40:21
was like they were on a little cage and it was like so bleak oh i still have
40:24
visions of that poor tiger in the oakland zoo just marching around the outside
40:28
of it like This thing wants out. I felt like I was in captivity.
40:32
Like, I think that's why I didn't like it.
40:35
Safari for sure is on the list. The other question is, is there anything that
40:39
you have changed your mind about recently?
40:42
That's a hard question. I'm pretty open-minded, but from my recent trip,
40:46
I've changed my mind about biking. I was never a biker.
40:49
I shared this with my friend who invited me. It really was life-changing and
40:53
pushed me out of my comfort zone because it was a strenuous,
40:59
active trip, and I wanted to make sure that I was prepared.
41:04
So I trained, and I felt so accomplished on this trip and it changed my relationship
41:10
with my body and with pushing me out of my comfort zone,
41:14
like pushing the goalposts in terms of limitations and reminding myself that
41:18
you are capable of anything.
41:20
I think so much, at least for me, of hurdles is 90% mental and it's my own mental blocks that stop me.
41:29
It was a good reminder to push through that mental block and that you can achieve
41:35
anything you put your mind to.
41:37
I'm so grateful to my friend for giving me that opportunity and the challenge
41:41
to expand my horizon in that way.
41:43
For the points we talked about earlier, experiencing things in the present,
41:47
using your other senses to really kind of see the world in a different way.
41:52
So I guess, yeah. I love that.
41:55
I love that. That was a real eye-opener in a beautiful way.
41:59
Yeah. I'm going to go through this whole weekend with all four senses,
42:02
I think. Like, I haven't done that. It just feels right.
42:05
That's going to happen. I end up being in nature a lot, though.
42:08
I have taken my, like, it's great having a dog because he needs to be moved a lot.
42:12
End up on hiking trails all the time. And they're not intense.
42:15
This isn't like hiking Kilimanjaro or anything like that because it's also Connecticut
42:19
and we don't really have mountains.
42:21
But there's something about being in nature and just being amongst it that is
42:24
very great. It's so important. It's really restorative, I think. Absolutely.
42:28
So the last question is, is there one piece of advice that you would give your younger self?
42:32
I would give my younger self the advice of not being afraid to use your voice.
42:41
I think when I was at Mount Holyoke, I remember one of my professors saying,
42:45
you just have to find your voice and it really changes everything.
42:50
I think I would have taken more risks and not have been afraid to make mistakes.
42:55
I think I was very prescribed in terms of what I thought my career path should
43:00
be And the ways that I needed to evolve through that,
43:04
not being so afraid to take more risks or to make a mistake or to speak up in
43:11
certain ways would have served me better.
43:13
I love that. That's so true. It's been a big one. A couple people have said
43:17
that. Yeah, I think we can all resonate with that. Yeah, especially as women.
43:20
When I first started out, all the leaders were men. In art history, it's mostly women.
43:25
But in the workforce, up until more recently, all of the directors and head curators were men.
43:30
Also, in terms of being a minority, there were no other Asian curators or critics in my orbit.
43:38
That has changed in such a beautiful way. I would have liked to have been more
43:43
open, more vocal about things. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
43:47
But again, like I think for women, it's very hard to hear so much of this.
43:51
Teach our girls to just say it.
43:53
Speak up. Yeah. This has been so fun.
43:56
Same. I'm really grateful to you. I can't wait to get some art.
44:00
Well, if you ever want to go around, I'd be happy to go to galleries with you.
44:03
Amazing. You can come on my art fair tours.
44:06
I would love that. I'd be happy to let you know when we work.
44:07
That would be fun to find a group of us to go into the city to go to galleries.
44:10
Oh, I'd love that. Thank you so much, Maria. I, this has been so fun and I love
44:15
getting to know you and like, this is so nice. I really just like.
44:21
Thank you so much for joining me today on She's Smart. New episodes drop every Thursday.
44:26
Don't forget to subscribe and share. Stay cozy.