Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 7, Season 2: When the Past Keeps Bleeding In: The Science & Stories of Retraumatization

Transcript

Episode 7, Season 2: When the Past Keeps Bleeding In: The Science & Stories of Retraumatization · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I am your co
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: host Raina Butcher here with our host doctor Sarience.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Like, what's up, what's up? How are you?
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm okay, just over here with the hurt bag.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: You're old lady.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: She's got an old lady back, and I have an
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: old lady name yep.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: And you know the crazy thing is, it's like I
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: bent down to get something today before I did my workout,
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: and that's when I was like, ah, all right.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: We never hurt ourselves like doing things that you would
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: think you would hurt yourself doing. It's always like sleeping.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Wrong, yeah, or picking up your phone off the floor
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: or something.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I've got a bumny too. We're just officially there.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. There was this video a long time ago and
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I laughed so hard because my husband's a veteran and
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: he has to go to the VA. But it was
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: like going to the VA with like a new complaint
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: and it was like, oh, you just have a shitty
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: knee now, like I don't know what to do, Like
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: there's really nothing wrong with you. It's just kind of
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: a shitty And that's.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Just the threshold and everything kind of it's funny because
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I was watching something a video Trey Kennedy, and hopefully
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I can mention his name, but I'm giving him credit.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: He did a video on like thirty five and I
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  Speaker 1: was watching it.
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  Speaker 2: I was like, dude, you don't even know.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: I am almost forty four. So I'm like in that
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: mid forties range. And they say that like you accelerate
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: your aging at certain points, and it's forty five is
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  Speaker 3: one of.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Them, and sixty excellent.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, start to approach that, like I get hurt easier,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: and just like I need to make sure I get
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  Speaker 3: my eight hours of sleep. If I don't get my
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  Speaker 3: eight hours, and I'm like, you can't function, I can't
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: function as well. And I used to be when I
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  Speaker 3: had horrible insomnia from trauma, which is something that we're
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: going to talk about today, I could. I mean I
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: survived on such a little sleep, and like when my
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  Speaker 3: kids were little and not sleeping, I was like, how
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: do I do that? Because now if it's just like
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: seven hours, I'm like, oh man, I could have really
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: used that extra hour.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Same even thirty minutes, fifteen minutes right snows as many
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: times as I possibly can.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Be able to never hit this snooze button.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Josh too.
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  Speaker 3: He will jump right out of bed and we will
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: get going like immediately, and he's like, well, I figure,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: what's fifteen more minutes going to do. I'm like, my
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: brain just thinks that it will do something great.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Same, I'm the same way.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: But you know when you're when you have trauma and
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: your adrenals are so you know, just depleted. Yeah, and
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: so actually that's what we're going to talk about today,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: not specifically trauma, but retraumatization.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Re traumatization, because so many of my clients go through
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: re traumatization because they are repeating their insecure attachment patterns,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: because they are finding partners that put them through the
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: same type of hell over and over again. And even
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: if someone has maybe a narcissistic partner and then they
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: jump to a dismissive avoidant, which I see all the time.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: I see narcissists to a DA because people are so
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: like I should say, bamboozled by the stoicism and the
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: emotional control of the DA at first that they're like, oh,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: this is so opposite of the narcissist.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna say, I think it feels like it
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: displays a sense of safety.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes them at first feel very safe until
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: they become profoundly emotionally neglectful, and then they're re traumatized.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: And although their trauma might not happen again in the
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: same way, some of it is overlapping. Like a narcissist
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  Speaker 3: can be very neglectful, so can a da So those
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  Speaker 3: specific circuits are activated, and we just need to talk
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: about retraumatization in the brain because it is a different beast. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: and your initial trauma. And a lot of people doubt
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  Speaker 3: about my.
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  Speaker 1: First question, like what's the biggest difference between initial trauma
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  Speaker 1: and then retraumatization.
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  Speaker 3: Right, Well, if you have initial trauma, even if it's
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  Speaker 3: complex trauma and it's not repeated after you get out
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  Speaker 3: of the situation, like say you had a really bad
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: upbringing and your parents were really abusive, and then you
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  Speaker 3: actually find a really secure partner, which is a little
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  Speaker 3: bit more unlikely because you're likely to come out with
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  Speaker 3: attachment insecurities that would make you pick an insecure partner.
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  Speaker 3: But you have people sometimes that just land in the
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  Speaker 3: right hands early enough that they can do some healing
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  Speaker 3: work because that person who they're with creates such a
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: safe space that they're able through therapy and through inner
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  Speaker 3: work to overcome their childhood right, and so they have
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: these trauma circuits in their brain. I want everybody to
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: think of a trauma circuit as like a groove in
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  Speaker 3: the brain. Like if you were to walk across your
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: lawn from your front porch to your car every morning
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  Speaker 3: in the driveway, if you walk that same path, it
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  Speaker 3: like digs a groove. Right. That's what happens every time
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  Speaker 3: you have an old circuit from old intimacy patterns, whether
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: those are from your caregivers or from adult relationships, that
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: is essentially lit back up because it fires, right, because
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: there's some stimulus or something about the interaction that your
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: subconscious goes, oh wait, no, that happened to us in
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: the past, and it's the same thing, right. So the
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: initial trauma, it's sort of like getting cut in the
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: same place one time, and then you leave it alone,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: and then you do some work, You baby it, you
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: doctor it, maybe you get stitches, whatever, you might come
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: out of the minimal scar. Right now, let's say you
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: take a razor blade to that scar over and over
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: and over again. You're gonna start damaging nerves. You're gonna
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: start sensitizing the area around the cut. So these pathways
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  Speaker 3: like expand and they become more sensitized over and over again,
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  Speaker 3: which makes the healing work harder later because you have
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: to understand that it's like a physical injury happening over
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: top of the same place. So it's a neural circuit
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  Speaker 3: that is getting reused. And we know that what fires
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: together wires together. So if you're lighting those circuits up,
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  Speaker 3: those neural connections inside of those circuits are getting tightly
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  Speaker 3: wound every single time.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: That's why it's so important to learn things the first time. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: we don't be one of those people that likes to
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  Speaker 1: learn things the hard way.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I take or like me, where it.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Takes so many times or so many bad relationships before
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  Speaker 1: you're like okay, no more.
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  Speaker 3: Right before, your brain is just going to tell you enough.
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  Speaker 3: I mean eventually, if you don't have enough, your brain
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  Speaker 3: is going to say enough, yeah, and you're gonna end
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  Speaker 3: up with some kind of disability or autoimmune disease or something.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: You're gonna end up with something because the body and
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: the brain can only handle so much relational trauma. Because
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  Speaker 3: access to safe connection is the core fundamental human need
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: aside from safety and food and physiological needs, like access
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  Speaker 3: to safe connection is a fundamental human need. And when
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: it is denied from us and actually we learn the opposite,
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  Speaker 3: that connection is so unsafe. I mean, our brain just
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: becomes profoundly changed. And like the tipping point is what
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: we call central sensitization. And I've talked about this on
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  Speaker 3: previous episodes, but I'll just remind my listeners of what
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: that is. It is essentially where the brain becomes so
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: oversensitized that the smallest little environmental triggers will set off
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  Speaker 3: funky firing. So the brain actually can start misfiring a lot.
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  Speaker 3: Think about it, like a car engine that's like puttering
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  Speaker 3: out right, it's gonna misfire. Maybe it starts up once
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  Speaker 3: and then it doesn't start and then the transmission slips
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  Speaker 3: or like you know, who.
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  Speaker 1: Knows, right, So, what are some real life examples of that,
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  Speaker 1: like ailments showing up in the body?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, ailments showing up in the body. I think one
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  Speaker 3: of the biggest signs that you have central sensitization is migraines.
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  Speaker 3: I know we've talked about that ad nauseum as as
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: well as gut issues. But skin issues are such a big, big,
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  Speaker 3: big like aladinia, which is essentially when your skin like
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  Speaker 3: you can start you touch it and it feels like
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  Speaker 3: pain or it feels like burning. We which we have
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  Speaker 3: that experience.
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  Speaker 1: It's like why do I feel sunburned when I just
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  Speaker 1: like this?
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  Speaker 3: And it even can be what people just laughingly joke
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  Speaker 3: about is like I'm so overstimulated, like the lights are
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  Speaker 3: too bright or people are too many people are talking. Yes,
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  Speaker 3: that's a fundamental condition associated with like autism and ADHD,
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  Speaker 3: but also can be in trauma survivors, especially people who
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  Speaker 3: have had multiple traumas or been re traumatized, and these
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  Speaker 3: circuits have been lit up and lit up and lit up,
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  Speaker 3: and you have HPA access to regulation and sensual sensitization.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have really really strong sense sensitivity. So
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  Speaker 1: like my sense of smell, my sense of sight, my
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  Speaker 1: sense of touch, all those are hyper hyper sensitive.
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  Speaker 3: Let's put these clues together. You've had a lot of trauma.
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  Speaker 3: Why do you think your nervous system behaves that way?
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  Speaker 3: Why would your senses be heightened since.
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  Speaker 2: You've had trauma, Because it's stored trauma.
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  Speaker 3: It is stored trauma. But think about it from an
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: evolutionary perspective of trying to keep you alive, survival, survival, right,
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  Speaker 3: because it's trying to make you uber aware of what
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: is around you to try to keep you safe. And
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  Speaker 3: I mean I have it too, and I actually freaking
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: beat it till this last year. And if you don't
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about, go what two episodes back?
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: So what can I say? And then you will know why? Yeah?
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: And I think this is you know this is.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: It correlates with the last two episodes that we did
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: on our series about family court because so many times
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: when you're getting a divorce sometimes the divorces can last years, years,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and child custody cases and hearings you're in and out
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: of court.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: And I know about what? Yeah, what's up with that?
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  Speaker 3: Why?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: And I mean even with me having Meg on and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think she you would care that I said
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: this because she knows it. You could tell that what
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: she's been through over the past year and a half.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And again, if you haven't watched that episode it's called strip,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: it's two episodes ago. I highly recommend her nervous system
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: is shot.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: It's shot. Yeah, And you can tell.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Her voice is shaky. Yeah, she's very breathless.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and she'll tell you it is. Yeah, like she'll play.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: She speaks about that on our platform, like, yeah, you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: she's had a lot of central sensitization, a lot of
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: the skin stuff where the skin just starts behaving in
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: really bizarre ways. And she's had it all. She's had
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: all the things.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: And that makes sense because I mean, you're really talking
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: about the biggest organs in the body.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: And so when you're when you are triggered and you
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: go into a level one response, which is fight or flight.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Level two is dorsal vaguel freeze, okay, which a lot
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: of my more avoidant folks live in more of a
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: functional fealous of the right, whereas more anxious folks are
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: familiar with fight and flight. Your immune system actually changes
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: and it sends out all of these like inflammatory side
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: of kinds and inflammation and starts firing because it's preparing
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  Speaker 3: for an actual physical wound. Because your brain doesn't know
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: the difference between an emotional wound and a physical one.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: It does not know the difference, it prepares itself like
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: a like an attack of any kind, right, And so
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: it's just crazy the things that the body will do.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: But central sensitization is essentially being oversensitive in just about
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: every way. So you become emotionally over sensitive, which means
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: that little triggers make you feel stressed out and out
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: of control. Your body is over sensitive, so your senses
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: can be heightened and.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: You don't respond to stress, don't respond.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: To stress as well, and your sensory systems can get
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: so bad off they start misfiring. That's what the bestibular
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: migraine was for me. So that's why people get dizzy
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: or they get you know, headaches or vertigo or whatever.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: And retraumatization all it does. It's like taking a razor
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: blade and just swiping it right over that old wound
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: and everything gets amplified. And eventually it's like that wound
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Well, these circuits get
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: bigger and bigger and bigger, these grooves in the brain.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: And I know specifically what happened in my case was
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I had this three years of bliss, three years of
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: an incredibly safe relationship after I had spent a whole
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: year doing healing work, somebody who just was very sensitive
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: to me as a person and loved me in a
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: safe way and then boom, what happened to me happened,
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  Speaker 3: And it was so similar to the manipulation and the
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: past abuse of the system that my ex engaged in
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that I just know there were certain circuits that although
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: they had been diminished and I hadn't had to call
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: upon them, which is why my symptoms were gone and
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: they all returned because they're all tied up in that
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: same groove and that same pathway associated with someone's trying
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: to hurt me and after my kids. Somebody's trying to,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: you know, drop me through the court system. Someone's trying
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: to you know, just punish meulate.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Me, attack, attack you. I mean, that's what it feels,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: just to.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Grade my sense of safety and my sense of safe
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: connection and security in the world.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: And we so, you know, something happened to me over
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the weekend, and we've talked about it. We talked about
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: it on the way here, you know, with one of
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: my exes. And you know, it's interesting because just when
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: we crossed the finish line of you know, our son
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: being eighteen, and there's some healing that took place. I
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: feel like I even talked about that on an episode
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: where like we were able to have this exchange of like, okay,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: we did this, you know handshake, all right, Wow, that
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: was really healing, simple.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: After eight years of no contact, after eight.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Years of like having me blocked, and I was like,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: this is really good, Like we're making you know, we're
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: making we're covering some ground here and then you know,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: lo and behold over the weekend, it was just and
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it was like you said, like you let your guard down,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and then it happens again, and it's almost worse. I spiraled,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: not to give him any power because he doesn't deserve it,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: but you know, he basically threatened me with something, and
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I was extremely triggered. And here were the responses in
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: my body. Heartbeat, out of control, like out of my chest,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and immediate, like immediate like as soon as the text
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: came through, body temperature dropped so like shivers, brain fog
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: and really just like emotional reactivity.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And I wish so badly.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And I told you this on the way here, that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: my husband had been home because Josh knows how to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: calm me down and because he again he's secure, he's
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: our born secure, and he's able to say, you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: take that breath, walk away, you know, don't respond right now,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: think about what you want to say. And you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I'll say this because I don't want to give him
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: any power over me in any way, because his threats
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: and his lies like they were old a long time ago. Dude,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Like just stop, just stop.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Like it's like if you know that you're full of cry.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if if you feel the need to do
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: what you said you were going to do, I mean,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: fucking bring it, like that's what I yeah, just bring
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: it because I'm not afraid of you anymore. Like I'm grown,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I'm married, Like I'm happy, I'm secure for the most part.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Gosh, your son is eighteen.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean like our son is raised, like
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: we can just kind of like he can yeah yeah,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: like flipe our hands clean of it and just be
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: like have a nice life. With that said, I still
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: have a right to tell my story as I.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Say fits I said it in that episode. What can
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: I say? We have every right to share our lived
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: experiences because they happen to us. We are not lying.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: We are not committing any defamation because it's true. It's
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: not defamation if it's not If it's if it's true,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: it's not defamation. And it's not our job to protect
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the reputations of people that gravely hurt us. We're talking
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: like they treated us a little poorly. We're talking about
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: like severe types of abuse, right, And I feel this
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: way so much about again my husband's family, Like I
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: feel I am so torn a lot at the time
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: because I'm like, my whole platform was built off of,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: like me recovering from this horrific abuse and everything I
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: endured in the family court system and finding a happy
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: relationship and the work I had to do to make
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: myself secure to make that happen. I can't tell that
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: story unless I've told you where I've been.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, how do you show up authentically without telling
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: that story? Which is the whole foundation of this podcast.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: This is the whole thing that we've said along all along,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: is that we like, this is our chance to come
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: on and not just speak for ourselves, like we know
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: y'all have heard our stories. This is speaking for the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: masses and the people that maybe don't have a platform,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and so that we can and they're screaming into a pillow, yeah,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: so that we can cultivate change, right, So that we
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: can cultivate healing in the world, okay, And so people,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I want people to trust me on their journey, not
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: just because I was trained in school for how to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: do this or because I've been doing it for so long,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: but because I've lived it and I and that is
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: what it took for me to actually change. I actually
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: had to hit rock bottom and live with my choices,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: which it's hard. Again, it's hard to admit, but i'ms
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: a freaking volunteer for a lot of it.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll say that too.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I absolutely participated in the toxicity that was.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Me and my ex, and that I know how to
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: take accountability.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: There's that internal shame though, tied up in that right,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: So becoming securely attached largely, not all all of it,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: but largely is about healing internalized shame, which is one
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: of the best things you can do for your nervous system.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: It's not the only thing, but it's one of the
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: best things because shame is sort of like it's it's
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: like this cockroach. Yeah, it just you can't kill it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: You think you've killed them all, and then it just
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: more shame just comes out of the corner, right, and
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: you're like, oh, dang it, it didn't get it all.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: And that happened, I mean that happened, this, it did happen.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: This speakin I mean the amount of shame. I know
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: you felt like this huge shame response because he shames you,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: because it calls you.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Horrible names and lies about things and says awful. There's
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: this element of shame too when you're re traumatized. This
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: is a big thing. When you're re traumatized or retriggered
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: by someone who doesn't deserve to take any of your power,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: you feel shame because you.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Allowed it to happen, right, even if it's short lived,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: And that's a good thing about your situation, is like
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: you can wash your hands of this.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, yeah, I don't know.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm ever gonna be safe until
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: all my kids are at least eighteen. Yeah, I don't
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: feel like I'm gonna feel safe. And I gotta work
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: on that because and I'm working on it, and and
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: this is the thing. It's like, I know this about retraumatization,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: and I'm just like, but I still question why is
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: this happening? As soon as like the legal battle with
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: what happened to me was over, like just the symptoms
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: just started ramping up like I couldn't relax, and I'm like, okay,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: trauma expert, nervous nervous system healing expert, sit down and
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: apply what you know. And I was like, yep, you
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: know what. This is happening because I'm finally trying to
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: feel safe and trying to relax and my nervous system
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: has become resensitized and it's like, Nope, you can't. You
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: can't relaxgerous. If you relax, something could jump out of
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: the corner and get you and you didn't predict it.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Therefore you couldn't be safe. So you need to be
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: on guard twenty four to seven, three sixty five. And
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you know what, fuck that? No, yeah, I'm
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: not doing that. I'm not living my life like this.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna sit with
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: my chest tightness and I'm gonna welcome it and I'm
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: gonna breathe through it, and I'm gonna use my tools
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: that I know work, and I'm gonna keep repeating them
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: for as long as it takes until this is better,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: because I am not going to allow my life to
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: be sabotaged and to stay a victim of somebody that
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: wanted to hurt me. No, I will not be.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: A victim, right, and that's and I won't either not
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: be silenced. Yeah, and that too, most definitely I will.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I will not be silenced because again, you know, the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: people that were involved in my situation, they're forgiven you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: by me. You know I forgive them, and if it
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: affects them in any way, then that's between them and God.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I don't, like, I can't if they're affected by the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: things that I say that are fact, Like you know
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: that my excess parents signed affidavits you know through you
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: know that said I put the emotional and physical well
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: being of my child in danger, which had no truth
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to it at all. If they feel threatened by that,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but it's not my problem, right.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Because you did it right like you did it. Don't
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: not people to know you've done bad things. Don't do
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: bad things. Don't expect the people who you have traumatized
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: and abused to work to protect your feelings, feelings and
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: your reputation, your guilt, your guilt. No, speak about it,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: But I always say, like, if you're speaking about it
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: to get revenged, that's the wrong thing. If you're speaking
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: about it to heal and to help people, that is
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: the right thing. So speaking of that and re traumatization
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: and in the brain, I know you had questions about
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: like I wish I could have responded better. I wish
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: I could have done this. And I have clients that
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: come through and they're like, if I could just step
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: back and think before I respond, I would be in
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: such a better position, And like, yes, but you have
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: to realize every time you get re traumatized, like if
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: you're in a really unhealthy relationship and that person is
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: like triggering you over and over again, it is harder
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: to heal because it's like having that open wound and
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: somebody's just sticking a dirty finger in it. And it
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: does reduce the prefrontal cortex activity and your prefrontal cortex.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: And this is the main strategy behind my coaching program
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: is I teach people how to get so deeply aware
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: of their mindset and so good emotional processing somatically that
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: they can essentially activate their prefrontal cortex more at will,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Like it becomes something that they can sort of turn
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: on quicker, right, And when you have your prefrontal cortex activated,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: you become curious, open, mindful, compassionate, and pathetic. You can't
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: be those things when you're in fight, flight, or freeze.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: You can't be those things. There would be no evolutionary
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: benefit to being those things, because that's like trying to
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: ask the grizzly bear standing in front of you, like,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: how do you feel about maybe eating me?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Are you feeling bad about it? You're gonna just try
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: to either run away, fight it off, or play dead.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Those are your three choices, and those are the three
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: trauma responses we're given. Sorry, it's all we got right.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: And so what's happening to my clients is they've had
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: history of bad relationships or they have a long history
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: in a bad relationship, and they're at the point where
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: their nervous system has become so sensitive that they just
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: it takes the slightest thing off the handle, would they
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: either fly off the handle or they shut down or
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: whatever their trauma response is. So like avoidant people may
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: get kind of defensive and then hardcore shut down or
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: maybe they even fond which is a form of freeze.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: It can be a form of fight too, but it's
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: mainly a form of freeze where they'll be like, Okay,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Like the AP will do that,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: or even DA's will do that. But then the end
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: AP will activate and go into over controlling mode, over
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: clinginess mode, trying to sell, lidify the connection, trying to
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: get the reassurance they need. DA's will back off fas. Yeah,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: I mean they hit below the booms, will sabotage everything.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: And that's what I did.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I mean everything, That's exactly what I did.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Like I I punched back and said some things. And
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: this is where like shame again comes up, because I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: mean I spent time all day Sunday just like repenting
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: not just for my reaction but for all of it.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, this has nothing
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to do with my ex like, it's not about you, bro,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: like has nothing to do with you. And but I
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: also can empathize with your like your pain like you have.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: He has pain, Yeah, obviously he has pain.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: For PROD users have so much pain.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: It's probably more, probably more pain than me, because you.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Know that was one of his things. I thought you
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: were so passed this and us, well I am.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I am past us, And I doesn't mean you can't
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: talk about it, right, how.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Can I not talk about it on a podcast that's
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: about relationships? And that was my longest, I guess relationship.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I mean it by far was the unhealthiest, you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And I mean that was a big thing. He said too,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: like I'm not your MANX, I'm not even your ex really, dude,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: we were together for twelve years off and on, And
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I mean my response was, nobody ever said you were
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: my MAINX.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: You just happen to be my worst.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: You know, I get it, I get it, you know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I get it. It's and I wish I'd have.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Been so much more mature and like calm.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And essentially, again, you had been separated from that BS
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: for like eight years, and then that pathway's not gone right,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: it's limping along. But then you just gave it like
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: some robot shoes where it could run right, like those
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: neural circuits just fired down that old pathway associated with
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: his specific type of abuse, because if you read his stuff,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: it was the same shit you were dealing with eight
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: years ago, and just calling you horrible names and saying terrible.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Things about you, using my son as employee.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, bringing you know, JP into the situation. And so
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: even though that pathway was just like a little glimmer.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: You just gave it a fireworks show. Oh you know,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: and so you can't expect when you know when. For you,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: time was a big part of the healing. And I
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: mean you've done intentional healing work too, but you really
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: don't know how healed you are until you get retriggered.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: And that's what a lot of people ask me going
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: through my program. It's like, Okay, well now I'm out
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: of this bad relationship, but how do I know I've
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: actually healed? And I'm like, well, I wish I could
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: tell you that you will know, but you really won't
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: know until you get into a relationship, and then that
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: person's gonna shine a light on what work you still
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: have to do. But what I do know is that
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: these tools they do work long term, and if you
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: practice them, you're going to be one. You're gonna be
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: attracted to more secure people because insecure people they wave
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: their red flags. Don't tell me you ended up in
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: this bad relationship and there was not one red flag.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: That is a lie. If you're telling me that, you're
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: a lie, because there's always at least some subtle red flags.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Even the master manipulators have some red flags, even if
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: it's just their love bombing, right, master manipulators almost always
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: love bomb and you fell for it, and that at
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: some point, yes, we get to go shame on them
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: for love bombing you, but then shame on you for
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: continuing to allow other people to come and love bomb you.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: And I say shame on you, not because I think
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: shame is good. I'm saying, like, it's time to realize
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: that I have these patterns and I am attracted to
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: these types of people, and a lot of times it's
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: just the same package wrapped up with a different color
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: bow on it. And you have to get to the
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: root of what is going on with me that continues
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: to attach to people once they show me their true colors,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: what is going on with me? And you can always
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: trace it back to their attachment wounds. It's like it's
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: just a very predictable puzzle.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to the one thing that
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: you said, because it was a question that was in
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: your Facebook group the other day and I was curious,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and you know, even when I saw it, I was like,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I don't really know how to answer that. Only you,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like, would know how. But like, you know,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: somebody who does get out of a relationship and then
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a single for a period of time, you know, is
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: are there any ways to know that they've reached security
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: without dating or getting into another relationship.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a complex question, and I will say that
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: there are some signs. One is, overall you're more resilient
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: to stress. So becoming secure doesn't just make you resilient
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: to stressful situations in your intimate relationship. It's fundamentally about
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: creating resilience in the nervous system and again overriding those
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: old pathways with new stronger pathways around the resilient mindset
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: and around the resilient you know, behaviors. You are able
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: to fully process emotions in your body to completion. So
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: that's one of the fundamental things that I teach in
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: my program is you have to be able to actually
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: complete emotional processing cycles and what does that look like
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: in the body. And so if you are processing to
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: completion and you're getting those signs that like, Okay, I'm
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: completed in this processing cycle. So I had my cry
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: and then I was able to do the breathing through it,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: and I was able to do the scanning and the
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: sematic awareness techniques that we talk about. And then I
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: end up with this just like sigh, and I feel sleepy,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: and I feel like I can just go fall right asleep.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: You've completed, You're done, You're in safety. Right. So if
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: you notice that your body is responding and you're able to,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: actually you're not band aiding or so pressing anxious people
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: band aid of what did people suppress? So we all
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: know band aids, shopping, eating, venting to your friends.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Right, I did do a few of those things, but
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: just you talking about the process of Like, that's why
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I spent all day Sunday pretty much like I spent
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: it in prayer. I spent it journaling because I knew
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that there were some things that I had to actively right,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: really actively other than having a good cry, but to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: write out to get out. Yeah, and so I can
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: say from just being retraumatized literally less than forty eight
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: hours ago, that I experienced all those things that you're
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: talking about.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And luckily, I think for you it's just a
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: trigger and it's not going to be this last thing
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: thing because you do have the ability to He.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: Did blocked party again, but lasts for me, and like again,
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I want to be careful because.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I want to say this, there's no malice behind it,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: like now that I have processed it, Like I don't
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: have hate for him, I don't have love.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: He is just reactivity in the moment.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have love either. I just I don't.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of indifferent, right, Like I'm just very indifferent
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to him. And of course I wish him well because
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: you know, he's the father of my son, and I
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I want good things for him because that
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: is that reflects on JP. But I mean, I I
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: don't want to block him out of resentment or out
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: of you know, retaliation. It's just that I know I'm
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: at a point in my life where health wise, like
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I just can't handle it anymore. Like it's just too
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: it's detrimental to my health.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Right because he's the dirty finger.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the wound.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: And that's why I tell people you going through this work,
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: going through my program as a couple is so powerful
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: and not that one person in the couple can't get
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: so much out of it if they do, because oftentimes
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: what happens if one person goes to it, they come
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: out of the other end feeling more resilient, feeling secure
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: in their boundaries, know what is the right thing to
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: be doing, what is the wrong thing to be doing,
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: to not abandon themselves, but also to show up as
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: a respectful person on the for their partner. And it
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: may not land their partner in a place where then
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: they want to match that energy and change, but it
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: sures heck will land them in a place where they
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: either know how to cope with it better or they
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: finally set the ultimate boundaries. And usually it's more of
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: setting the ultimate boundaries after a while, which sometimes is
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: the only thing that actually gets their partner to change
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: when they're like, oh, shoot, they're not going to be
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: that anxious person that runs after me and tries to
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: apologize and bring me back in when I go silent
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: for a couple of days and I pull my avoidant stuff.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: And even if the ultimate boundary has to be set.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I just had a call today
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: talking about this like divorce, you know, and having to
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: maybe go through the court system if once you, I mean,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I would suggest anyone who maybe is on the verge
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: of divorce and maybe thinks it's too far gone, like
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the you know the potential client that I spoke to
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: today that your program is still an answer because again,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: it's helping your nervous system become resilient. And so if
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you do have to go through a divorce or if
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you have to go through custody, you're going to be
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: better equipped to.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Handle it and to co parents.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, abs of freaking lutely, And I guess the whole
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: point of what we started talking about what I want
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: to circle back to, is like just people repeating the
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: same patterns and then this awful, awful myth that well,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: if I can just get away from this one person,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: then I'll be okay. Because we got away from our
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: quote one person that was the most toxic in our lives,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: and we chose other toxic people because we didn't do
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: the work on ourselves, and then maybe they weren't as
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: toxic or abusive. So maybe it was quote unquote a win.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: But I don't think profound neglect was a real win.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: After being in a toxic relationship, I think I needed somebody,
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: you know, like my husband, But I wouldn't have been
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: ready for him. He wouldn't have put up with me
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: at that point because and I see these people that
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: are just like man, I was finally in a good
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: relationship and then I sabotaged it. Those tend to be
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: the fas. And they either sabotage it if they're anxious
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: because they felt a little bit hurt by their partner,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: and they way reacted. Their trauma circuits were retouched and
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: they lost their marbles and they acted like an idiot.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Either said a bunch of really mean stuff or shut
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: down really hard and slam the door literally or figuratively
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: in their partner's face, and then regretted it and begged
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: it and acted like a sorry, you know what coming
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: back begging, you know, Or they were very avoidant and
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: they just ghosted and then it's been too long and
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: they're like, oh, I don't know how to come out
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: of it ghosting phase and like reconnect and they just
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: you know, and I'm like, you went to hardcore and
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: you sabotaged it with your old FA behaviors. DA's do
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: it to aps do it to You're just going to
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: repeat your patterns. Even if it's with a different partner
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: who has a different attachment style, You're still it's not
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: going to work because your brain circuitry is wired towards intimacy,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: triggering you in these ways. Even if it's somebody relatively
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: secure that's triggering you in a small way, you know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: it's still a retrigger, right, and if that happens enough times,
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: it becomes a retraumatization.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: And I can't even give a real life example of
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: this what you're talking about, because guys, it's all I got. Okay,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: she's got the big brain, I got the real life experience.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is why this works.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: But you know, when Josh and I first started dating,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and I would say, like Josh, for the most part,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, he has some some anxious qualities sometimes, but
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: for the most part.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: He's pretty nobody's one hundred percent secure.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. And so there was an there was a
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: night that we had been out with friends. Of course,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: drinking was involved, as it always has been if we've
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: ever fought, but I still, you know, he got triggered,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you know, because I wasn't ready to leave and he was.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: And just to give you an idea of the dynamic,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: like I do tend to be the extrovert in our
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: relationship and he is a little bit more introverted, and
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: he kind of threw this many temper tantrum, right, And
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: this was very early on in our relationship. And where
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: he he just left, he left the party, left me
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: there with no ride, and then went to my house
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and like grabbed us stuff and left, right, little mini
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: temper tantrum. In the past, I would have handled that
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: in a very similar temper tantrum manner.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you would. You would have hit back hard, right.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: And I would have hit back really really hard. And
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: instead I said, I just simply said, this isn't gonna
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: fly with me. That type of behavior is not going
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: to fly with me. And if it continues, this is
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: this isn't going to go any further. And that firm boundary, Yeah,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: that firm boundary with compassion, right, Like it was direct,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: but it was compassionate. It really changed the trajectory of
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: our relationship. It's really what took our relationship to the
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: next level. And those are the things that should take
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: your relationship to the next level, because I think sometimes
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: what would have happened if I had bounced back in
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: a way that was you know, even more toxic, which
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: would have been my old behavior, right. And so that's
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: that's a real life example. I think of when you're
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: early on in a relationship, how those secure behaviors start
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: to show up. Boundaries just become easier to set, yes,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: because you're just not willing to jeopardize your piece for
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: any reason.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, that's exactly kind of where I wanted
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: to go, is like early on in the relationship, you're
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: going to respond to red flags with boundaries. So that's
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: one one thing that you can count on knowing. Two,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: you know, friendships are gonna be You're probably gonna let
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: some friendships go. I think that's a big sign because
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: you're gonna start seeing people and their toxicity and their
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: emotional immaturity, and you're gonna be like, that doesn't feel
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: like I don't want to be around that. Where before
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: maybe it was a source of bonding or gossip or
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: just just being able to relate and have that you know,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: sort of common ground. It's not your common ground anymore.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: You don't live as a victim, you don't live as
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: somebody who reacts really poorly to these same circumstances. Like,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: my goodness, we all know one friend that she was
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: more my friend than your friend. But oh my gosh,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: like how many times could I be like, you just
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: did the exact same thing you've always done, and then
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: you're asking for a different result, right, and you're you're
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: looking for a different result here, and you can't do that.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: And of course then she's she like be my friend
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: anymore because I told her the truth, and I was like,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be my friend and handle this.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: No, but you're gonna you're going to start giving secure
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: advice to people, and your insecure friends are are going
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: to reject it. At They're going to make every excuse
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: in the world for their current crappy partner or for
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: their own bad behavior, and you're going to see through it,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: and you're going to be like, man, you got work
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: to do, and you know I can't. I can't. I
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: can't hear the same problem anymore because if I keep
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: giving you advice and you keep not taking.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: It, this doesn't feel like at feel like a friendship.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And it.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Just feels like you're you're using me for just a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: soundboard and nothing else. And then this happened, you know,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: obviously with one of my friends too, which again is
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: so ironic. Listen, guys, Sarah, because I get asked all
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the time on calls like how do you and Sarah
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: know each other?
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: And like what's the other story?
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, that is what I did to you?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Well it is, but that wasn't That's not what I
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: was going to say. All Right, I'm glad that our relationship,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: you know, we were able to repair it. And but
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: like our timelines and the things that happened to us
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: through like really like our childhood, the way we were raised,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the way you know, our toxic exes, you know, when
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: we let go of our toxic friends. Our timelines are
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: just so uncanny in terms of how they play out.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like our growth and improvement and self improvement journey,
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: attachment security and all.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Let us right here to her say exactly for sure.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: And that's why it's like.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: And that's why I love having you here, because you
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: validate how previously crazy I used.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: To be girl with cuckoo all right.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: And cuckoo girl was I mean, how many times could
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: you have told me that my ex was never going
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: to meet my needs? He did not have it in him.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: And I was just I would be like, just end it,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: just like a little bit, but he did this, and
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: it would be like the lowest form of attention humanly possible,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Like he.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Liked a social media Yeah, I would, and I would.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Make that I like get anything. It didn't mean anything.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: And you know, it's just because again those circuitries around neglect,
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: even though you know it wasn't necessarily like at that
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: point a form of an abuse. I think when you
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: get in a marriage with somebody like that, it becomes
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: a form of abuse for sure, because it's prolonged neglect.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: But I think just my ex husband would do similar things,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: like when he was upset with me, go silent or ghost.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, of course he would usually scream at me first,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: but then but you know, but the whole like being
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: ignored thing, there are circuits in my brain around that, right,
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: So then I get into this relationship with the DA
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: person and then neglect circuitries where you know there's trauma
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: around that is all lighting up. So I'm just being
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: retraumatized by a new relationship.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: This ball of anxiety, just ball of anxiety.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: I was, I couldn't even function.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: You were and you know, and I mean I've talked
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: about it before, but like I remember your breaking point,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, and it was it was messy.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: It was very messy, and it was scary.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was scary as your friend to witness
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: it and see it and kind of feel helpless and
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, I'm at capacity here on what
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like I could do, you know, And I
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: knew that you were at rock bottom, and you know,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: having to cut a friend off when you know they're
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: at rock bottom, I mean, it was one of the
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: hardest things I've had to do, you know. And I
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: didn't do it like we won't get into I didn't
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: do it the best way. But eventually, you know, it
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: did come to a head where I was just like,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I love you, sis, but I can't be your counselor anymore.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And this doesn't feel like a friendship. It feels you know.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing. Your friends are gonna get worn
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: out with your same old patterns. And sometimes ratraumatization isn't
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: your fault, Oh no, you know sometimes you know a
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: lot of times it's not your fault. A lot of
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: times it's not your fault, but it can be your fault.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: When you look back at your last five relationships and
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: they're all like either abusive or neglectful. Yeah, then it's
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: like Okay, what's going on with you that you you know?
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Or I have a lot of people, a way more
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: people than I can have ever imagined, especially those that
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: come through my group that say my partners had multiple affairs,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: multiple And if I hear the word multiple affairs, like
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: if I have that phrase, I'm like, it's a no go,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: it's a done, it's a done, it's a you are done.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: You need to be done now. You need to be
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: in right now, right because some people can recover after
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: an affair, but you can't recover after multiple because that
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: people don't just decide to be different, Like those are
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: character issues.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Well, and even if there is accountability, like accountability plays
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: such a big role in infidelity. So even if they
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: do take accountability, but they repeatedly do it, the accountability
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: means nothing.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean anything.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: It's just words.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was my marriage, you know. And and
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: also what people need to understand is like you can't
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: love somebody into changing them. I have we have a
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: friend who thinks that she can love a dude into
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: changing himself, and you can't.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: We love her soul so much.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: We won't say who you are, but she's so precious
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: so precious, beautiful and successful, and I just just like,
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: why are you taking the bottom of bear?
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Bear? Like so obviously the bare minimum too, Like it's
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: so obvious. Listen, if they haven't taken you on a date,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: and you've known them.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: For over a year to know.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: If they haven't met your friends, if they haven't, like
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, if they're only coming over to your house
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: after ten pm, it's no, it's.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Your hook up.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And I know, Like I just have so
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: many clients too that come and they're just accepting the
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: same stuff. I have so many clients that are on
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: their second marriage and they're like, how did I end
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: up in this exact same place time number two? And
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, we'll tell me what the timeline was
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: after your divorce and what you did to heal. You
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: know what? It was nothing? Yeah, I practically nothing. They
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: either cheated on their spouse with this person, or they
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: were with this person right after their divorce, or like
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: as they were going through their divorce it took no
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: time to heal. They blamed everything on their partner that
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: it was just an incompatibility or their partner had all
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: these issues. They didn't have the ability to see their contributions,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: or if they did see it, they thought the awareness
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: was enough, And that's another big mistake. Yeah, people think
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: that awareness of your issues is enough to change. It's not.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't have had a nervous breakdown if it was,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: because I was incredibly self aware. Okay, I knew it
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: at all, and I couldn't change anything about myself. My
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: brain was tapped out. My prefrontal cortex was probably like
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: tissue paper at that point, had no thickness around it
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: at all, because your prefrontal cortex does thin out with
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: repeated trauma, which, again that's your rational brain, that's your
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: self control and self regulation, that's your empathy, that's your compassion.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: Your amygdalah, which is your threat detection and anger center
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: of the brain gets enlarged every time you are re traumatized.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: That grows, so you know, there's this competition between your
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: prefrontal cortex, which is your rational brain, your responsible brain,
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: your empathy towards yourself and others, your compassion, your mindfulness
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: of your behavior, that is competing with your emotional mid brain,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: specifically activity in the amygdala that is enhanced. So it's
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: like your more primitive brain. Your mid brain is like
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: it's the middle brain, and it's the It is not
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: the most primitive part of our brain, but it is
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: a very primitive part. The most primitive part of our
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: brain is your hind brain, which is like controls your
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: breathing and like your balance and your heart rate and
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. But your mid brain is where all
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: of the emotional centers, and it's really tied to a
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: lot of memory, and it's very highly tied to the
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: subconscious mind. And so when your attachment wounds are in
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: the driver's seat, you're operating from a subconscious level, and
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: you're operating from this place of emotion instead of from
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: a place of logic and emotion. So people say, oh,
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: we'll throw your heart out and just listen to your head. Well, nope,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: don't do that either, because then you'll end up super
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: avoidant and you'll end up suppressed. You can't stay in
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: logic either. You can't think your way out of feelings.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: You have to think and you have to feel, and
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: you have to be able to do those in ways
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: that are actually healthy and going to benefit you towards
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: your healing. When most people are just trying to think
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: their way out and they're thinking in these old grooves,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: in these old negative thought patterns that are just they're
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: literally re traumatizing themselves by engaging in these old thought
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: patterns and they don't even know it well.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And that's what I want to hit on. Memory specifically
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: around trauma and re traumatization. I think is huge because
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I know and you probably experienced this obviously more than
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I do. But there's so much that people don't remember.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So much.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Like I mean, I do remember things, but like my
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: mom almost say things. She'll be remember one time when
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Jared did this, and I'm like, and it's something horrible, right, No.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I know, She's like, you can't remember that. My sister just.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Today said something. I was like, you remember when he
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: did that? I was like, oh, no.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: No memory, no memory at all. And you know.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: And so I'm curious how well and I know the answer,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: but yeah, how the lack of memory or the effects
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: of memory and the initial trauma affects the re traumatization.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, so trauma memories are encoded and stored differently than
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: regular memories. Okay, so you have to understand that first
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: and foremost, trauma shrinks the material of the hippocampus, which
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: is your memory center, and it reduces top down prefrontal
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: cortex activity, which is what keeps you from having the
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: brain fog. Like when you have good prefrontal cortex activity
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: and that is the dominant sort of circuitry that's working,
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: you're not in brainfall. You're clear, you have clarity, you
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: are strategic, you can make good decisions. So some trauma
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: memories are going to be I if you're like in
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: perpetual complex trauma, you're going to have a degradation of
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: the hippocampus. You're going to suffer with a lot of
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: brain fog. You might have memory gaps of things you
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: just don't remember, even big periods of your life that
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: you don't remember. Whenever somebody comes to me and we're
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: doing an attachment assessment and they say they don't remember
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: a lot of their childhood, I can bet all of
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: my money that they're about to tell me that they
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: had a traumatic childhood yep, and what they do remember
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: was traumatic. Major, big traumatic events can actually be recorded
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: in ways that are almost like photographic. So that's like
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: true PTSD where you get like the photographic flashbacks, but
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: complex trauma where it's happening all the time, Like you
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: don't have the resources to encode everything that way, so
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff gets dumped or it's they but
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: it's very blurry and very foggy. And then you might
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: have some shock traumas interwoven in there that are incorded
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: in like this photographic way. So for me, like I
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: have these really really distinct memories of like the major,
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: major crisis things, but the smaller crisis things are like
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: wiped out in my brain same and so it's like
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: the more traumatic and if it's like a shock trauma,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: it's gonna get encoded differently than to your everyday like
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: complex trauma. And I always get the question. It always
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: seems like fearful of Wood's have ADHD, And I'm like,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: they probably do, and we need to start asking ourselves
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: a question if ADHD is just a component of attachment
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: trauma and CPTSD pathology. And a lot of people are
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: gonna give me some hate for that because they're gonna
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: be like, well, my kid has ADHD and they weren't traumatized, right,
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: but maybe they were in ways that you don't understand.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: In utero, in the womb anything anything.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And if did you do cry it out as
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: a you know, when they were an infant. That's a
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: major trauma in the brain and it affects the development
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: of the brain. So little traumas that are repeated over
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: time can be just as damaging as a big shock
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: trauma to the nervous system. It's just that the way
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: that those circuits are created and encoded are a little
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: bit different. You might again, those little traumas create a
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: blank whereas the big shock drama you have that sort
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: of like photographic like image imprint of when it happened, and.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I would say, what is going on? It affects the
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: re traumatization part of it. And you can correct me
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, simply because you don't remember, right, like
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: you don't remember some of the initial trauma.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: But here's some also interesting things that I want to
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: touch on. The body is where your trauma is stored.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: It's stored not just in the brain. It's stored in
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: the fascia of your body, which is like connective tissue.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: And so you know, a lot of the reason we
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: can have chronic pain is not just because of central sensitization.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: A big part of it is where the brain just
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: becomes oversensitive and pain signals just start going wonky. We
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: call that neuroplastic pain, and it's a big reason why
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: people have chronic pain and they still keep going after
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: physical causes and really it's trauma, but also the fascia
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: in the body will start modeling itself towards these like
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: braced positions. So like when the trauma thing happened to you,
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: which I don't know, pick one of the hundred like
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: traumatizing things that have happened to me. When it was happening,
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: my body took on a certain position and literally down
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: to a cellular level, your fascia remember, and it tries
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: to continue to protect you by staying in that position.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Knowing you as well as I do and as close
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: as I am to you, I've witnessed this in.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Like real life because I have horrible postures.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Well no, I mean I can just think, I can think,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: and you probably have witnessed it with me too. I
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: mean we're just that close. Our husbands have probably witnessed it,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: could we could probably witness it within our husbands, just
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: anybody that you're that close to. You know, but when
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: you went through this last situation, like I was with
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: you a few times where you may have gotten a
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: text from an attorney or your whole body structure changed, right,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: it was your whole demeanor changed.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I mean one you were.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Just like like laser focused, you know, and then like
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: you said, your body took on this position.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I really still struggle with my posture because
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: I have to, Like I will be sitting there doing
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: something and I'll be like, okay, Sarah. This is where
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: the sematic work comes in, because you cannot heal from
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: trauma if you don't do sematic work. And the biggest
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: mistake I made was I jumped into all the sematic
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: work without having my mindset correct and without having and
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: knowing what I was doing, and without tight trading my experience.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I think the thing that pushed me over the edge
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: to my nervous breakdown was actually something called tre trauma
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: release like exercise or forget what the stands for. But
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: it's all these posturing and positions to allow trauma to release.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: And I was like trauma dumping. I was dumping this
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: mass amounts of energy of stored emotion too soon after
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: I was traumatized, and I didn't have the you have
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: to do prep work. So I take my clients through
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: a very strategic journey of before we even get to
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: emotional processing, we have to do the mindset work. We
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: have to do the awareness work, and then the mindset work,
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: and we prep and we prepare to finally then do
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: the emotional processing and we trate it. We have to
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: get to know what is your specific window of tolerance
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: for feeling your feelings inside of your body, and how
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: can you process at that stage and then try to
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: increase your tolerance.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: And I think that this is really just what sets
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: you apart, honestly from because I mean that piece right
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: there that you just expe blamed, I mean it's something
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: that I really hadn't even thought of prior to you
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: saying it, because I've always thought, you know, you just
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: work through the body, get to know your body, get
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: you know, so that you can release all these things.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: But you're right, You've got to be in the right
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: mindset way to do that.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: And that's why a lot of people think, oh, well,
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: I just why I cry a lot, Like I have
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: a client, this is a cry all the time. Why
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: am I not better? I'm like, well, your brain has
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: learned that this crying experience is extremely painful, and it
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: started to associate that with being a negative thing. So
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: and then you your mindset around it, being like why
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: do I do this? My eyes are horrible after I cry? Like,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: why you know? Do I have to keep doing this?
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do it. You're shaming yourself and
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: you're associating these release of emotions inside of the body.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: We call them feelings because they're felt okay with shame,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: and then your brain is learning that's a bad thing.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: And when I go through it, it's you're going through
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: it in this really unregulated way or disregulated, which is
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: sort of like a form of trauma dumping of like
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: it's over releasing, right, it's pushing past your window of
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: tolerance for your own emotional experiences. And so you have
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: this like unregulated, like forty five minute cry, and of
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: course your brain goes that was horrible. I never want
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: to repeat that ever again. But you thought you were
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: quote feeling your feelings. Then you're coming back and shaming
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: yourself and being like why am I still crying? Well,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: then that's a double whammy to your nervous system. Now
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: you're hitting it with shame, which is the ultimate dysregulator.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: So there is really a science and a strategy behind
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: healing your nervous system and doing so in a way
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: that involves a mindset shift. That is the absolute foundational
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: prep work. You will not be successful if you don't
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: first do the mindset stuff. So people either just try
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: to go headfirst into the somatic work and it's too
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: much for their nervous system. They end up like re
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: traumatizing themselves more, or they're trying to just do the
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: mindset work with no somatic healing and then they're also stuck.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: We have a strategic calm, a nation of prep work,
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: and then the emotional experience somatic true emotional processing work
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: that has to be done. And I hate to tell you,
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: but if you get re traumatized, you're just gonna have
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: to start over.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: You need it.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: So I mean, honestly, if you're looking for that strategic process,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: if you want to learn that strategic process, doctor Hensley, teach.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Join my group.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, don't let the word group make you afraid.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: You can be anonymous in the group.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: And again, like you know, I was talking to the
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: client today and I was like, the group is another
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: whole intervention that's a part of it because you can
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: learn so much from other people or you you know,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: the sense of community that comes along with the group.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: The group is an added part of it. It's it's
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: a beautiful part of it. You really you have couples
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: that you know are in same situations as you are,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: and then you're able to not feel as a loan
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: or not feel as crazy.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: Right because you're like, oh, these are actually predictable patterns. Yes,
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: everybody comes in you say it all the time, thinking
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: their relationship is unique and different, but you don't understand.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: But we've got this going on, So what how are
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: you fighting about it? How are you handling it? How
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: are you guys able to meet each other's needs? Well,
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: there you go, because couples that can meet each other's
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: needs well and handle conflict can get through a lot
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: of problems. They can get through parenting issues, they can
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: get through issues with family of origin, they can get
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: through money problems, they can get through somebody becoming sick
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: or injured. But when you don't have those fundamentals in place, yeah,
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: you add another stressor it's going to wreck you.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I need to go through your group again. Yeah, I
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: really do, I really feel like I do sit in. Yeah,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I think I will.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just always such a good refresher and
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I always feel I mean, even when I first started
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: and I came on, I would sit in on group
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: just to learn, you know, more about the foundation of attachment.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: So I set in, you know, three or four times.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: And I've always said, and I relay this to people
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: that I talk to. I learned something every time that
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: I set in each time, and so I think, I mean, gosh,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I learned something every time we sit here and talk,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: you know, and it helps it helps me and and
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: you know, just my experience over the past weekend.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: I it's always a.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Good reminder that. And I want to I want to
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: say this lightly because healing healing. I don't want to
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: ever put the stigma on healing that healing is like
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: this bad thing, right, it's this beautiful thing. It's beautiful,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: and it's you know, even when you're you realize, oh wow,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: that's still really got to me. You just have to
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: meet yourself where you are.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: A lot of it is catching and correct thing like
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: that was a catch and correct moment for you. Now
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: had you been spiraling and texting him days later, and
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: like yeah, then we would be looking at like okay,
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: well this is a pretty big regression. Yeah right, but
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: you have one moment yeah, okay, So what I have
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: moments in my marriage that I have to be like,
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: you know what, babe, I just messed up.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: I immediately regret saying that I take accountability, we say
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: earning your security. It is somewhat of a catch and
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: correct game. You learn to respond better off the cuff
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: a lot, lot lot more. But sometimes like those old
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: pathways are just sitting there waiting to be lit up,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: and something is said in just the right way or
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: done and just the right way that triggers you in
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: a way that your subconscious goes, wait, this is really bad,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: and so your neuro transmitters go and they go over
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: to that old pathway and light it back up.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: And I want to get you know, I want to
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: shine light on my husband because and I'm going to
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: try not to cry. But you know, safe connection and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: safe love, I mean, if I can, if I can
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: give y'all any hope, I mean, that's helped my re
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: traumatization more than anything. Yeah, because he he met me
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: where I was first off, you know, he gave me
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: my space and gave me my time that I needed
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: to cry out. But later on when I was when
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I started to ruminate because I did you know, he
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: just held me. He held me, and that that that
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: body to body, skin to skin connection, and he didn't act,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: you know, And this is this is what's so beautiful.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I have a husband that can hold me
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: and not ask for anything else, you know, but of
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: course not not in that moment. He knows what I'd
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: just been through and he saw what it did to me,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: and it you know, I just want to give him
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: props because so many times, you know, our partners do
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: want to fix and they do want to you know,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: right then and there fix it. Yeah, and he you know,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: he I think he knew that he couldn't and that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I just needed I just needed a minute. And and
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: that's what I was just going to say. Is that
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: safe love, which you can only or secure love, right,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: you can only find that truly through finding secure attachment.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: But it's the true answer when you do get re traumatized,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: because you will, everyone does, right, That's life. I mean,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: retraumatization can look like a lot of things.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: It can, it can ca.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, but when you have that safe love and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: that safe connection.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: It makes it. It's huge, It's just massive.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: And I mean, honestly, I don't know if I could
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: sit here today and not feel I mean, I'm still
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: a little disregulated, and I told you that on the
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: way here, but not as much as I would have been,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: you know, years ago without Josh, you know, absolutely, And
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: not to give him all the credit, I give myself
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: some credit.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: Sure, absolutely, And I think you know again, access to
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: safe connection, especially safe intimate connection, is a fundamental human need.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: It's how the human mating strategy works. We form long
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: term intimate relationships by which then we have children, and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: we stay with those partners to help protect the children,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: to help them grow. We're not like animals. They just
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: go out mate with everybody and it's a numbers game, right,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: So we got to stop treating ourselves as if it is.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: We need to realize that these intimate connections profoundly influence
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: our nervous system. And if you don't fix your own patterns,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: you will just find another verse of some person that
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: traumatized you in a different package.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Or I mean, even like everyone, I mean, everyone's going
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: to lose a loved one at some point in their life. Right,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: everyone's going to experience death. And so I mean, this
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: is why achieving your attachment security it covers everything, It
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: covers everything.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: It takes what if to even if it's like, okay,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: well even if this happens, because my whole brain beforehand
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: was what if? What if? What if? Now it's just like, okay,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: even if.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: I'll be okay, I'll be okay. I can handle this.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: I can and okay might look a lot of different ways.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: You know, it might look like just getting by, but
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: ultimately it will end up as overcoming and being smarter
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: and being more resilience. And you know, I can't I'm
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: not gonna lie. I can't say I'm glad this last
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: year happened to me. But it was a test, if anything,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: and I've been able to pass it.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Which, well, in your marriage, your marriage is more resilient
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: because oh.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: For sure, we're a way, We're closer than we ever
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: thought we could be because we endured it together.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: That's what safe connection does. Connectors are things.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: For sure, and you know, we get to know each
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: other a little bit deeper about what helps and what
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: hurts and in what somebody needs where in those states
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: where maybe you you're so justsregulated you can't communicate what
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: you need very well. And we were able to learn
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: that him and I definitely cope with drama or drama,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: drama and trauma in a very different way, and that
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: I'm much more of an externalizer and I want to
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: talk at talk it, talk it, talk it, talk it
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: talk and talk a talka talk it to death because
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: I'm somebody who I understand things as I externalize them,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: Like if I talk about it, then it helps me
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: understand it better. For him, he's an internalizer, so he
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: is very much in his head and he doesn't want
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: to talk about it out loud would be me and John,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: and he wants to like think it through and he
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: doesn't want it to take over his life. I'm like, no,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: let it take over my life for a little while
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: and then I'll get it all out and I'll be okay.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: And let's talk about it all the time.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's keep talking. Wait, we ended that conversation, Let's
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: go back to it. Yeah. Donald's more of a like, no,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: there's a time to fight and there's time to rest.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: I think he learned that in the military, they'd ingrained
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: that into him, and so before we would have like
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: a court hearing or something, he'd be like pacing the floor.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: But I was like, that was when I was bringing
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: to action, I'd be cool as a cucumber. I'd be
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: ready to go because I had been anxious beforehand. See
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: he had shut it all down, and then he was like, okay, wartime,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: war time. Now it's time to Now it's time to
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: like really like red the nervous system up. And I'm like, no,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: now I'm cool.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: And there's really no right or wrong way.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that both ways could be you know,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: especially in a marriage, can actually be kind of constructive.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because if we were both externalizers, oh my gosh,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: we would never shut up of anxiety.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: So it's probably a good thing.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: But speaking of of course, doctor Hinsley services that can
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: help with nervous system regulation. In terms of re traumatization,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: we have to name our affiliate and thank them Armor,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: which again, if you've had trauma, you probably most likely
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: have some tummy issues or some skin issues, and Armor,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you guys, it has. It has helped me tremendously.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: Even chat GPT verified that Armora was a really good
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: supplement for me because of my past trauma, because of
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: the immune disregulation and the gut dsregulation that my body
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: is always trying to fight and reregulate. That Armora is
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: a fantastic supplement for the gut and for the skin
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: and for the immune system to actually you know, calm
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: the inflammation which is just such a big part of
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: what we experience with trauma and retrauma and re traumatization.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: So you can go to Armora dot com and put
• 1:07:03
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• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: thank you, Arma, thank you.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: It's in my cup right now.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Yep, mind you always every week, every week.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: So and then of course please go check out doctor
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Hensley services at the lovedoc dot com. For our listeners,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: we offer promo code love dot twenty seven for twenty
• 1:07:21
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• 1:07:24
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• 1:07:27
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• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: out at the lovedoc dot com And until next time, peace,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: love and perspective.