Latest / Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman / ESPN's Nick Wagoner Joins To Preview Seahawks-49ers, The Trade Market, Brock Purdy's Play and Much more

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ESPN's Nick Wagoner Joins To Preview Seahawks-49ers, The Trade Market, Brock Purdy's Play and Much more · Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nick Wagner of ESPN.com on the show.
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's doing a big piece on Brock Perti.
• 0:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Talk to Kurt Warner about it.
• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we talked to Nick about that.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize he was doing it.
• 0:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we talked so much of the focus is about the keys to beating the sea hawks this week.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: How important that matchup is, the way Brock Perti is playing, the trade deadline approaching for the 49ers a month and change away, who are some potential candidates.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: and much more how George Kiddleston doing what he's doing and a lot more next excellent.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: This interview is brought to you by my friends and yours at Puesto, McConnell, Moderna, when the teams at home, there's only one choice for eating at the game.
• 0:39
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• 0:41
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• 1:00
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• 1:02
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• 1:06
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• 1:18
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• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: They got the TVs.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They got great food.
• 1:22
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• 1:23
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• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a bar.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they have a bar.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's just a great restaurant and the margaritos are out of this world.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the Adler brothers, thank you for supporting the show.
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• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Puesto sponsoring this interview.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mejcano Moderna.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get on with it.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Back on the show, it's great to have one of my favorites, one of your favorites as well around it as it gets elite article on George Killy of the day deep insight, great insight for the game, Nick Wagner, VSPN over a decade of covering the 49ers and much more just covering the league and here we are covering a 4-0 49ers team, I think once they won week one, Nick, it wasn't shocking to think they could be 4-1, but there's a long way to think in it and actually doing it.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the season's now 17 game, so you're not exactly a quarter of the way through, but give me your before we dive into a few specifics like what what you take on this team a month in.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think guy you and I might have talked about this when we were all Australia, which was, I think the last time we did this and I was talking about the importance of winning that Rams game just because I felt like they had to get one of two between that Rams game and the Seattle game, right?
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are in theory, those are your toughest games on the schedule, because those are the road games against your two toughest division opponents.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they beat the Rams and then they go into the Broncos game and I was like, okay, kind of recalibrate here, they're three and all, they really need to get at least
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: between the Broncos and the Seahawks.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if they had their drothers, I'm sure they would choose the Seahawks just for divisional purposes, but the Broncos was the one that came first and they got it.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm not going to sit here and say they're playing with house money.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's never the case when you're playing the Seahawks.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a huge division game.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: This game that could really be a big springboard to them.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: potentially winning the division and even getting that number one seed if they can win it.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to downplay that at all, but I do want to just make the point that as they sit here at 4-0 with the schedule as it lays out after this Seattle game, there's really good potential for them to be in a great spot and we'll get into this later going into the trade deadline where they feel emboldened to go out and be aggressive.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that to me is the most important thing for them.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: can they be in a spot when they get to that by week of hey we're going to get some guys back and we can add to this and we can really make the push because if ever there's a time guy you and I know this we've been talking about this for years.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: If ever there's a time and a season for them to be all in to try to get over the hump and get this thing done it's right now.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you're right, just over a month away from the deadline.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk, we can talk about that.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, is there obvious, you know, the chargers lose and immediately it's like, well, what about Khalil Mack?
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's on the expiring deal, the forest buck, and there's on the expiring deal.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: There aren't a ton, the edge rusher market, you know, Brian Burns got hurt towards ACL.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, the edge rusher market takes a hit.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Steelers look like, maybe they got some issues.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was he's, his name's come up before TJ White.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's probably the most expensive guy in terms of trade.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's more.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what's your,
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're we add on do they need to do it and is there an obvious target to you or what you think the sweet spot on prices.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they need I think they need to do it and I think there's two ways that you can look at it and for me like a lot of people will look at receiver and say receiver is also need I would say maybe less so just because of what you're expecting to get back on on that part of the ball.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: But on defense I think the defensive line I look at I look at nose tackle.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: and I look at Edge both as pretty pressing needs.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a way you can either attack it to say, let's go, let's go big, go really big, and spend a one or a two to go get a, you know, you mentioned some of the elite names out there, you know, if a, let's say if Tennessee says, hey, we're willing to move Jeffrey Simmons, or even if you look at Vita Vaya, I think a lot of people wrote off Vita,
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: a via, right, as an option because he signed that short extension with the box.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at the financials, it's really not that onerous for them to move on.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean they want to, but I could see that potentially being a pathway if the box keeps going down the path that they're on right now.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be like the big fish right like can you get the can you get the big name to me the other option is I think there's probably ways where you can you can do both things where you can bolster your edge rush and you can get a defensive tackle and to your point guy you talk about guys who are on expiring deals guys who Maybe are a little long in the tooth which the 49ers have plenty of that but a guy guys who are experienced but can be had a little bit cheaper in terms of compensation and also don't require a lot of money
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: To be paid out over the end of the year and so you mentioned Cleo Mack like Cleo Mack would make a lot of sense for the 49ers because could you get Cleo Mack for a four I think possibly.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, and then I look around and I say okay, well, then who's my nose tackle like like if the commanders keep falling out of this could you get to run paying for.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: a five or a future four like I don't think that that's outrageous like these are guys on expiring deals who make you better and and I think the big thing for the Niners is if you look just positionally on that defensive line I think those tackle is the most important need just because I don't know that they have like a starter that you believe I really like Grayson Holden I'm not knocking Grayson on I just think he's more of a three technique he's better deployed that way in kind of a rotationally but if you can get a nose tackle you solidify that spot
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the edge rusher part of the equation is not just, can we get somebody to rush opposite Nick Bosa?
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's can we have somebody who can be there if we don't have Nick Bosa, which is the reality that they have to live in right now.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why I think like, because you're getting my Cal Williams back soon.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the hope is that he will take a step.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: If nothing else, he helps to litify the run defense, helps in that way, but pass rush still has to be there.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why to me, I think it might,
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: to try to do two and a little bit older guys who maybe aren't going to cost as much versus taking that big swing and giving up a one for a Jeffrey Simmons, which, again, I'm just going his name.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea if he's available.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Titans did just sign him to an extension.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They'd have to eat some money to do it, but that thing's a mess.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they'd be willing to, especially for a 2027 high draft pick that everyone says this draft is so great.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, that's all the more reason the Niners probably would like to hang on to their at least their first and second round pick, where I think they could do something.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you get into late round three, four, five somewhere in there.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Khalil was traded for a two and a four or two and a six.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, four plus years ago.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they don't get, you know, then I get in their second back four years later.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're probably asking for a third, but you're not getting it.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, I think your both points very interesting too, right?
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you got both the back great, you still would love a little more explosion.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't, so be it.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: If there were a, if there were like a Jaredverse out there, my attitude would be, yeah, trade form because like the end is coming sooner rather than later with Nick Bosa anyway.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if it's not, if Bosa suddenly is like just healthy and gets a new contract with the Niners and three years and he's balling great, like you need multiple guys anyway.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just, it's trying such a light on the way they got Nick Bosa.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of the way you get Nick Bosa.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: is you got a sock and be drafting in the top three.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's about it.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you get miles Garrett in a trade.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But as we're seeing, that's not the same as having 24-year-old Nick Boser miles Garrett, right?
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, there's only, it's hard to get those guys in their prime, in their prime.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and to your point, guy, like, if you look around it, like who would be the edge-rusher options that you're willing to give up those big things for, that first to say,
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the names are, right?
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and who would be available because those guys are so hard to find.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you are kind of shopping around the edges of guys who may be on their last legs.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they say, I mean, Cleo Mack was he have three sacks.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's still, he's still producing, like he's still a good player.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the charges actually have a few defensive linemen that I think.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could maybe swing something where you're like, let's get a couple of these guys.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could, you know, do a collial mac and tear tart or something like that and and fill a couple of needs like that would be that would be a nice thing.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you could swing something like that.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think they're going to be aggressive though.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a hard time unless things go horribly wrong over the next few weeks.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a hard time seeing them not going out and making a move.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, that doesn't necessarily mean you're getting
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Max Crosby, Hector Raiders are a playoff team and as we sit here right now and could very potentially be one as the year goes on.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know that you're that he's available and again, I just don't I don't know who's out there when you're looking around and if you are giving up those picks, the ideal scenario is I'm talking about a high pick, a first or second round pick.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You want a guy who's going to be around for longer than just the end of this season.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it needs to be a longer-term investment and I'm just not sure that those kind of guys are out there.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that will reveal itself as we get closer to the deadline and teams start falling out by the wayside, but as we sit here right now, it's really hard to project that.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe just trade for 33 old TJ want you're like, Hey, we've got the found on a youth here.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you noticed, only 30 year olds plus score touchdowns on this team.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: My joke with the Raiders is like it's a half joke.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: People who if you're new to the show, you don't know this like 10 year running bit about there's another version of me that's just a huge Raider fan like there's an alternate universe where
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I do a pre- I've used to go to radar games all the time like sharing in the media covering both teams, you know, and I just got an appreciation for radar fans.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have a good rapport.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: My joke this week is at least I think we do.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's with admiration and respect, but my joke is not just having a big game coming up, but before that they got to play the seahawks.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: which of course is a joke.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the Seahawks shout out to the commanders.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Shout out to the commanders who beat the Seahawks.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there you go.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know Atlanta to me like all the none of these games you just get to roll out of the locker room and win like not any of them.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the ones you did, you probably already played, like Miami, and even they didn't make that easy on you.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, look, Seattle, let's talk about the CX for a second, $100 million plus a contract for their top end guys that went out the building.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy-A-Mafé, Kenneth Walker, Kobe Bryant, Rick Woolin, you watch him on defense, at least surprising ending of the weekend was them strip-sacking Justin Herbert.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just like, I knew how that drive was ending.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been watching the charges for my entire life.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they just, this is how they end.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, what's your take on Seattle right now?
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So much focus on them, not just because they won the Super Bowl, but because, you know, other way they played the Niners the last two meetings.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I watched I just actually watch the Seahawks and Chargers game this morning and I think a couple things jump out of me one that defense is still really good although they were doing a lot of self arm in that game the other day.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they had what they have 14 penalties and I think 16 16 at seven of them were 15 yard penalties and six of those were on the deep were on the defense.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, charge, oh, maybe they had 14 penalties in 16 or 14.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was 30 or more than half of, yeah.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think half of the penalties were 15 yard penalty.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, right.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you're talking about that kind of yardage going the other way on penalties, I don't care how good you are on defense.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're making those kind of mistakes.
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you could argue, you know, the few of my thought were a little close, like, okay, you could, you know, could have gone the other way.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, but nonetheless,
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: the league has made it clear that they're calling things a certain way this year.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just look at the number of penalties that were called over the weekend in general.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: 49ers have managed to largely avoid, you know, serious penalty trouble so far this year.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that is something that jumped out to me and I wonder if a little bit of, you know, the Seattle with the whole the dark side or whatever they call it and all that kind of stuff of like
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: trying to, trying too hard to establish yourself as a certain personality defensively, when they already have the pelts on the wall, right?
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they already did it.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know this is a great defense, right?
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know that they want to superbowl.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit strange in that way to see that,
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're still really good.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the Leonard Williams injury is no small thing to monitor this week.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, he's a big difference maker.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big Biden byron Murphy is really, really good.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the more underrated players in the league when you talk about defensive tackles.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nicky Manwari is back and they were using him and even more unique ways than previously leased on Sunday against the chargers like the number of times they deployed him as a rusher popped out to me and the success that he was having.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know losing Kyle use check it's not a great week for that on a number of levels that being one of them but
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just think this is obviously always a tough place to play.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a good team, Mike McDonald has had success, at least here recently, especially against Kyle Shainan's offences, and I wonder what kind of answers the 49ers have to have come up with because this is going to be the biggest test yet unquestionably to me on their schedule.
• 14:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Niners second in the league, a few is penalties 4.3 and C-addels 25th at 8.8.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: going back to the Ravens game right Mike McDonald several years ago came on to the nine or eight are not allowed to touch that really suffocating the 49ers in the last two meetings.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it felt like you know and then they went the Super Bowl and they were in the 90s locker but it feels like like watching the 90s through four weeks Kyle used
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: for beating them and now he's hurt.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know, thankfully it's not long term, but you could argue for all of the great players they have, the greatest drop off from starter to the next guy, could be juice.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is just not another guy like him in the league.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's been really, really good this year.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: How does that injury affect the 49er's offense?
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's huge.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to your point, it couldn't have happened at a worse time because of what we just talked about with Seattle, part of what has made Seattle so successful defensively over the past year plus four games is the addition of Nicki Man worry and they use him effectively like a linebacker, but they're also essentially playing nickel right and he's good enough at both coverage and
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can even rush the pass or now I guess we could say all three phases and and defending the run that if you can't run them out of that you're going to have a long day if you can't run the ball against these guys now obviously a lot of that also is attributable to an excellent defensive line which the sea hox have but
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kyle use check is the weapon that you hope can be the guy to effectively wipe out a guy like Nicky Men worry in the run game, effectively run them out of that defense, make them change what they want to be from a personnel standpoint.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as long as the seahawks are able to do that, kind of play that hybrid nickel defense and keep that personnel without you running the ball, it's going to be tough, it's going to be a long day.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That it is is a tough loss.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, Braden Willis will well get more opportunities.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously I think Luke Ferrell has had kind of a sneaky good first four weeks here, and I expect to see more of him as well But it's it's tough because all of those guys were fitting in and finding their roles and and really kind of defining those roles in a good way For the offense here and now you kind of kind of have to to reconfigure With a guy who does a little bit of everything.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is not just a full back.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a type of
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a slot receiver.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: He lines up everywhere.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always say the key to playing fullback in 2026 is to not play fullback and Kyle use check has kind of mastered that hard Yeah, I mean you can argue that's the key for all for the last decade.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's yes.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, why special I would change that year every time I say that You modernize it.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah You know, you just got me thinking so You know last year in the opener
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jake Tanjus caught the game winning touchdown, but Jake had not had a catch in his career until that game.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: He played two previous seasons, had never had a catch until a game.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Brain Willis has never had a catch.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's only at three career targets.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The closest thing to a catch was recovering Debo's fumble and popped in the air the other day, like good ball skills.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe this is maybe the Niners do it two years in a row with a tight end who's never had a catch.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the other thing.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tanjus is the back up to juice.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's out.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's that's significant.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I think like to me, if it was, because Seattle is, their run games not the same, right?
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: They lost Kenneth Walker.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are down multiple running backs.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: They tried to sign Joe mix and then he didn't pass a physical.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like they got a lot going on in the run game.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Darn old, you know, it's just tough without as good of a run game, to duplicate the year he had last year.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I think about Nick like, what is at the top of the list if you're the 49ers, what is the difference between winning and losing?
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: To me, as long as they keep protecting Brock, they can score with anybody in the league.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like JSN, who's a monster, could go for 180 yards.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the nighters can counter it with their offensive.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: They protect Brock.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So here's a stat.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: The 49ers are number one offensively in the NFL this year at preventing negative plays.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Only 2.3% of their plays will see adults defense, guess who's number one on defense in creating negative plays.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Seattle's defense.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you tell me that like Brock gets stacked once on Sunday, maybe for the first time this year, I think they win the game.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: and there's a difference right like he was pressured and not sacked and he had to make some plays and he was a little more uncomfortable though like I would put that as the number one key to this game this week do you agree or do you have something else I think that's great and I will I will tack on to it with the 49ers defensively which we maybe haven't given them enough credit partially because of some of the opponents they've played have given up the fewest explosive place in the league so you talk about
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: counteracting a negative play, a quick way to do that is with an explosive play.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And JSN, of course, being one of the best in the league at creating explosive plays.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think a lot of this comes down to, it's like, you're talking about quarterback matchup, right?
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sam Donald and Brock Perti.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And both of these defenses are going to ask the other offense to execute over and over and over and over again.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you can't get those
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: six play drives or four play drives where there's you hit a 40 yarder or something like that.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you avoid penalties, which we talked about earlier, is part of the equation here?
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say even guide the last couple of weeks.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at Arizona and the Broncos,
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: They killed themselves in a lot of ways with offensive penalties because they were not getting chunk plays But they were getting three or four yards per play But they get a penalty and then all of a sudden it's not enough to get a first down and stay on the field So I think that really plays into it as well as is can you can you continue to limit those explosive?
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to sit here and say well take away Jason.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're not gonna take away Jason What you can't do is let Jason have eight catches for 180 yards.
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to you have to have let Jason have
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: twelve catches for a hundred yards.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a bad day.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a bad day.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: If that's what he has at the end of the day, right?
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that sounds crazy.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he you think if he's got twelve catches, you can keep him to a hundred.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But no, that's my point.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying like it has to be a small number.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be like if he's getting eight yards and he's running little, you know, eight yard outs or something.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the end of the world.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't let that turn into a sixty yard touchdown or whatever.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that to me is the thing and I think that's where
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh, defensive line standpoint, which we know with the condition that our defensive line is, I still think really highly of that Seattle offensive line and, um, I think Donald's going to have some time to throw.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think the nine or secondary is playing a lot better than maybe people realize through the first four weeks.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but this is going to be their biggest test yet with the combination of Jason on the other side, but also the amount of time that the other quarterbacks probably going to have to throw.
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, it's very different recipes, and I think to your point on the second area, and that is for 31st, defensively a negative play percentage, like they just, it has been, but don't break, and, you know, when it's hot.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's sunny, and there aren't that many possessions.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bend has met at times like 12 play defensive series.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's on the field a lot.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, now, here's the thing with dark like to me, if you told me parties playing a defense that is last and the league or near the last league in pressure percentage, I'd say you're in trouble because he's he's going like, he's going to slice and dice you.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Darnl can do it too because he's but like Darnl could also throw you the ball.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you see?
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you saw it.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: For me, we didn't see the way the charger C-Hot games started with so much.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: First two place unbelievable.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Herbert throws a pick and then Darnl throws a terrible pick.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was just like, okay, it's gonna be that kind of a day.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You wrote a great piece about, I encourage people to go read it, it holds up a week later, less than a week later.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: He asked me about it.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Especially after the game that Kiddell had, and George is, he's fourth now alone on the 49ers all time, touchdown receiving list.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's close to moving into third place, Gene Washington's a few touchdowns ahead of him.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: He just passed Vernon.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he remains healthy, he's going to pass TO for second on the all-time yards list, receiving yards list in 49ers history, I hesitate to call it a what would be the word not a renaissance.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hesitate to call it a renaissance because I don't think he really dipped, but he looks as good as he's ever looked and your article was so in depth on the specifics on kiddo, not just wanting to get back fast, but wanting to get back as good as he's ever been.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: explain to people what he's done, how he's done it, and why he looks this good right now.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think what I kind of set out to do in writing that piece was, was too fold, right?
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think the first thing is is that we've reached a point with science and medicine where I think a lot of people return to play from Achilles injuries quicker than expected.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to make that clear of like this isn't just about returning to play because we've
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: tore his Achilles and came back super quick.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was like months.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, Aaron Rogers, even when he had his, everyone was talking about, oh, he's he coming back.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's already practicing again.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: All the guys a few months later.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's returned to performance.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I talk to one of George's physical therapists is Dr. Heather Milligan, who is the PT to the stars, basically, because she is Dr. Neil, Elitrash has got a person in
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Los Angeles that she she sends it to and he's the doctor to the stars, right?
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So so it's so fact.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's that way.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she's she's worked with thousands of athletes all the high end athletes.
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can imagine she's worked with So Vester Stallone Arnold Schwarzenegger like any like name it like it's crazy like George kiddo became friends with Arnold Schwarzenegger in her clinic during this so that just gives you an idea.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: But she would tell you that
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: 33% of athletes and FL players do not return to play from an Achilles so that's still a thing and the numbers have changed over the years but the you can double that percentage when you talk about athletes getting back to previous levels of performance and the way they measure that is not just speed but power right and your burst so they you know they test what you do whether it's like very curious kinds of squats and just things that you can do to kind of measure
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what they do is when they when George Kittle goes there, they say, hey, like, this is what you have to do, and Heather had the quote was in the story, Heather says, you can't cheat this.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You either do it or you don't, and it's going to show up whether you did it or not on these tests.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you do all of this though, you can be back in George physiologically had a little bit of a benefit because of where the tear was.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that was working to his advantage, but the rest of it was on him.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a lot of that is the tediousness of this of this recovery, the the.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: the day spent lifting marbles and towels with your toes and you know he has his physical therapist in Nashville who's just trying to find anything possible to live in those sessions up because it's just boring and it requires daily commitment to it and the George would add the blood flow restrictor which was a whole different level of like working to failure and things like that but
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was doing everything, he was the perfect patient, he was doing everything every single day, he was supposed to do, and then pushing it, because Dr. Milligan, Heather Milligan, told him, like, you can push this a little bit, but just check in with me.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so whenever he would hit something, it felt good, he was doing it.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's the big thing that's been the most impressive about all this is just like not just the quickness with which he returned to playing.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the quickness that he's returned to almost hitting 20 miles an hour and taking a 56-yard screen pass to the house the other day.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the 40-yarder against the was of the Cardinals, the Dolphins, where he split the safety and went up the middle, where he's got a chance to open it up.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that to me, I think was kind of the point.
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other point, I just felt like it was a good opportunity to
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: show people the George Kittle that they don't get to see right like we all see the fun loving the jokes the you know the press conferences the randomicides about shoes or movies or whatever it is but like
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't be the guy who gets to show that personality and have the platforms that he has if you don't have the other side.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not in that, we're talking before the show that 1% of guys who is so committed to his craft and wants it so bad and is willing to endure whatever pain, whatever tedium comes with something like this.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was kind of an opportunity to show off that side.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's part of why George was willing to, he's always open, but willing to kind of open up about this and talk about it.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: allow me to talk to his physical therapist and all that to show off like, hey, this is this is the other side of George Kittle that you don't see behind the scenes which is the George Kittle that allows him to be the fun loving George Kittle that we do see in front of the cameras every week.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you got to be very serious to be the guy that has fun by Debo like Debo's serious like it's it is and I think what you said about it the proof being in the pudding it's like Debo Samuel you know his for I remember his first day at training camp I went oh
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got it.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, George, it was different because George had to work his way back in, but it's just some of these guys you give him credit, they just make it so obvious, which is what a star player is.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: A star player is not.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is always my take on not always, but this is why I've been talking a lot about this year with Perti.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's finish with Brock.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are great stats.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when we get to the point of like tier one quarterbacks, no one's checking Mahomes as Boxcore every week.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's why I thought this last week was impressive, because it wasn't, you know, 20 to 22, 18 straight completions is awesome.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not repeatable.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what the conference championship game or the Super Bowl or a road game in Seattle or Kansas City in the winter.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what those games look like.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the great thing for Brock and if you're gonna talk about like all of that,
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: type argument with him is there's all these games that are going to lay out in front of them that are opportunities for that this year.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, he's not thinking about it.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: But to me, he has looked, whatever you want to quantify it, he's looked better this year.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that he didn't look good before, because people have done well, I knew he's good five years ago.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but it looks better this year.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why this game, to me, this week is so interesting.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it just, I can imagine him and Kyle thinking about
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: every day.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's no question.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: No matter what you do to Denver or Miami or even the Rams, you got to go through these guys.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just the team.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is their defense against your offense.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what the NFC seems to rest on this year.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Coming off of two meetings that you lost with scoring zero touchdowns, right?
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that to your point, sitting sitting with that for however many months it's been and stewing over it.
• 29:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to your point about Perty and I have another piece of big piece coming on Brock for the week six commanders, the Monday and I football game.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I spent some time, I spent some time talking to Kurt Warner the other day.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were talking in Kurt and Brock are kind of like injured spirits in a lot of ways, right?
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: and the way they got their opportunities and all that kind of thing.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: They both have Arizona ties.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things you can go down the rabbit hole with them, even down to the jersey number, right?
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I love hearing Kurt talk about it because Kurt, like he of all the people appreciates that playing quarterback isn't just about how far you can throw the ball or how fast you can throw the ball.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that Kurt talked about, and he also has a respect and appreciation for Brock
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: to hand as Brock pretty.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was very similar to what Mike Marks was asking Kurt Warner to do using the middle of the field and layering throws and the types of throws and all that kind of stuff.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Kurt was saying that the thing with Brock that he has noticed is that he does all the little things that make you a great quarterback.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: and a lot of it is is like finding the right throw to make figuring out what that is and then he has the ability to make all of those throws like we we had the line of questioning with Brock last week about like are you throwing the ball harder like it seems like he's he's got a little more on he didn't say yes but he also didn't say no he kind of
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: kind of implicated like, yeah, there's I'm I'm thinking about ways that I can rip this ball a little bit better and throwing violently I think is the term that he used, but having all those shots in the bag, knowing when to use them, I think is where he is has taken a step forward to me and I attribute that to your five with Kyle Shanahan in this offense, understanding.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of my story is going to get into like what happens between the years before a snap and then after the snap in that 2.5 seconds so that Brock knows which throw to make and then how he can make it because I'm talking like not to give away too much but like you know we talked a lot about those layered throws right and like Brock will tell you that a lot of that throw
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: is happening in his head before the ball is snapped because he has to know every little thing because a lot of times he can't even see it.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: He literally cannot see where he's throwing the voice throwing with anticipation and he's got to calculate everything.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I say everything he's thinking about who was my receiver, how tall is he?
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: how fast is he?
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who is the linebacker that's dropping in?
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is his wingspan?
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like how much reach does he have?
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: How fast is the safety who's behind it and what's you know what's his level in terms of getting back to the ball?
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's 20 things that he's thinking about and I think he's reached a point in his quarterbacking now where a lot of that stuff is being processed a lot
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: quicker than ever before.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is maybe at least to me, from the outside, and maybe I'm just, you know, pushing my own story here, but I, but I think that is, is where you're seeing this big step in property and why, you know, he's been great.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to, I don't want to downplay how good he's been before this season, but I do think that this is maybe fully realized.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: version of Brock party rather than just, oh, he's better.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is just what he was always destined to become, given the system, given the experience, and given the work that he puts in.
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't wait to read it.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, I watched all 30 throws from the Denver game on Monday morning, but I didn't watch it with this context, but I'll say this.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: The 83 throws he made before I watched all last week, and
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I counted 18 throws that I qualify to like, that's his top velocity.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I counted five that were layers.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And only one of them was that middle of the field layer.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was the ball that Mike Evans got hurt on.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then he tried to throw over the safety in the Arizona game.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think to me, the layered throw that you just described has defined him to this point of his career because it just takes so much guts to make that throw.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is a separating factor with guys.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That ball will get intercepted sometimes.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no question about it.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think this year, and I thought this last week, as much as they've been about sack prevention, I think you see so much sack of avoidance with him.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I mean is like the quarterback is getting some of the credit for that, which is natural.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's become a very explosive and efficient scrambleer because he picks his spots.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if his velocity is faster.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it probably isn't, but it feels like it is because I think he's creating more of those opportunities to really step in and cut the ball loose.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's that and I think the other part of it is is just believing it, knowing it like right like like if if if you are even a little bit tentative on something that you have to rip it over the middle it's going to show up in the throw right but when you are in your five and you have seen it a thousand times now or however many times and you know you can make it which he has proof of concept of
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: like you are going to rip it again.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the MPH is in the spin is the same as it's always been, but it just looks a little bit different.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it looks a little bit different when you pair it with the fact that the layering is still a thing that is that is a common thing for him.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, to your point Kurt talked about that.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said, I have to have a bunch of interceptions.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The people would kill me all the time for all the interceptions.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was like, well, if you have an offense that asks you to throw the ball over the middle as much as we do,
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to happen and I talked to Brock about the Brock was like, yeah, I try to get him out in practice.
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I throw a bunch of interceptions in practice, fine, I'm figure and out where my linebacker can drop to and what his wingspan is and all that kind of stuff.
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's pretty, it's pretty interesting and I think the level of like kind of, I think Brock is the best way I could put it is he's kind of reached that like PhD level of quarterbacking where like he is beyond just
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And by going through my grab progression is getting the ball where it needs to go.
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm not, what can I do outside of that?
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what play can I make to get back to whatever it is that may be an alert or whatever it is like we saw in week one.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really, it's been fun watching him so far.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I know there's been so much debate about the, like to hear a point about the Broncos game the other day.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we would all agree from a total performance, probably not his best.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably his,
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Number four out of the four so far this season, but it was the right performance, right?
• 36:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was it was the performance that they needed to win the game, and that's the important thing that matters emotional.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we got to end this because you got stuff to do, but I would just argue like how do you compare that game to the Miami game?
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is the best game.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was nine of 10 from the nine minute mark of the third quarter on that's crunch time like
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: That and that to me is where I go back to Josh Allen and the homes and it's like did you see that throw my homes made down three with four minutes left like that when you talk about tier one that's what those guys do not it was twenty twenty two against Miami like okay.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to your point earlier to bring this full circle the lack of negative plays that it's not just interceptions or fumbles it's it's no sacks like those are the things that when you're in a dog fight like that a rock fight as I called it like
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: that's the thing that can swing a game.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We saw a special team's play that's that's swung the game, but you weren't seeing Bonyx taking those chances.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You were seeing Bonyx, Bonyx was the player that people like to pretend that Prok is the other day where it is, it is just checked down Charlie and whatever and not willing to rip those throws over the middle because he doesn't trust it and believe in it.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that played a difference in the outcome of that game.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which by the way is, and you know, Bonet, like it's what it was in college, these things eventually at quarterback play themselves out over three, two, three, four years.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just, they reveal themselves.
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're still alive and kicking and producing by your five,
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're like, okay, you might have something here.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're four, you're three, but you're one and you're two.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it hasn't been enough yet.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It hasn't been.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got to stop the conversation.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: We and I don't do this, but the conversation about whether Brock Perty is good is dumb.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we should be long past that.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to do the thing where you're talking about where he ranks, by all means, knock yourself out, but like, there's just not any, when you're in your five and you're still doing this and you're seemingly continuing to get better, it's time to put that conversation to bed for good.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, you don't get better if your coach sucks, right?
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's got Kyle, like, yeah, okay, right.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And who, by the way, everyone wants to give Kyle the credit.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if that's the case, then maybe just take his word for the fact about how good Brock is and the fact that he's been with Brock longer than in quarterback he's ever been with.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why he's been a good kid credit.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's the other thing.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You both get cracked.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is, it takes great partners to become great.
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like nobody does it on their own.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you love Kobe, so we end up with Kobe.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Nick, great seeing you, man.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, see you, bud.