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Graeme Esarey on Expedition Sailing · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Angel Podcast. My name
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: is Scott Brady and I'm here with Brian mcvickers from
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: our team, and we have mister Sree with us here.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: We have Graham Sere and I just met you. Well
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: we've met before. I know that we have because I
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: do remember your face. But we finally got a chance
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to chat last night at the premiere of Grace Schustler's
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: film that she did with tred Lightley and with the
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Overland Expo Foundation, and we just got a chance to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: chat because Brian's like, do you got to talk to
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: this guy? So there's a lot of commonalities that we've
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: got love for sailing, a love for exploration, a love
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: for business. So we're going to dig deep into some
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of those conversations today. So thanks for being on the podcast.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here, and I think this is
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: really fun. You know, we're talking about some of the
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: most important stuff in the world, so I'm excited about it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: And you have good people too.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean this is completely tangentle but also
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: relevant from an overlanding perspective. But you run IGNIK and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: you guys make these great little fireplaces. I've used them
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: all over the place, and you just come up, came
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: up with a cool like hybrid fireplace slash cooking. What's
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: that one called the mullet.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Or scullet the light, the mullet, business on top, buld
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: on top, you mullet in the back, party in the back.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: But it's a you know, it's a it's a skillet
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: with height adjustable fire pit and heating underneath it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: It's elevated fire pit.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: It's an elevated fire Is this camp on in the snow?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: You don't want your fire down in the snow. You
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: want to get it up and you want the heat
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: where you can feed.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: You're sitting next to it. The heat radiated straight out.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: It's it's super cool. I mean, it's an amazing product
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: and a great company. But you're on the podcast because
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: you've lived an incredible life and just in the brief
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: moment that I had to talk to you, by the
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: time I figured out, you had sailed at least one
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: hundred thousand miles. And I'm sure we're to get that
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: number corrected here in a few minutes once I know
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: the scope of it. But you know, you've crossed the
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Northwest Passage and Brian. The reason why you're on the
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: podcast today is I've been wanting to talk to you
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: forever about your crossing. Graham and I did that together
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four. Yep, September August, Yeah, basically all
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: of August.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: It was about a six week trip. I think a
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: little bit less.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Actually, I think it might. I don't know, I can't remember.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: So we got on You and I both got on
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: a nor no ma ask. So we got on the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: boat in No. The boat, so dog Bark is it's
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: a sixty foot it's an old raceboat actually that we
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: converted into an expedition. Expedition is kind of a lofty
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: word for what we do well, and.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: That's as a race boat. It was an open sixty yeah,
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: and it was built for the BOC Challenge, which was
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: a kind of a It was a predecessor of the
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Vending Globe, which is a famous around the world unsupported
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: NonStop sailing race.
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: And was this boat used for that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It was, so it yeah, did finish the first one.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And so it was built back when there were no
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: iceberg exclusions. So in those days boats ran into icebergs
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: and people died and that was just part of sailing
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: and and so dog Mark was built for that kind
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of built to go in ice filled waters, and nowadays
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: they build boats a little lighter and a little faster
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: which don't want to hit in So that was built
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: for the nineteen ninety BOC Challenge and the American and
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Mike Plant actually hit an iceberg and sunk his boat
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: in that race. And that's what caused ice exclusions.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: So when they created an exclusion, they would limit the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: north latitude.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So it south flatitude. So basically those around the world
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: races all they go down and they run under the horns. Yeah. Sure,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: but the lower you go, the more breeze you have,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the faster the boats go, and then the more ice there.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Is about the roaring forties, so that was that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Was the thing that was not what our experience was.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: We had some roaring wind, Yeah, we had. We had
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: some fairly breezy conditions. Yeah, we saw ice, we saw
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: polar bears.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: We had the full experience.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was telling somebody about I was here at
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: the expo. I was talking about the icebreaker that we met,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: and this was a guy who's like, ah, yeah, the
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Northwest passage. They take cruise ships through that now, and
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yep, they do. And there are these icebreakers
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: that are stationed in places, and the icebreaker will punch
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: a hole for the oil tanker or the cruise ship
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: from whatever. You don't usually do that for the rest
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: of us.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: Huh.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: We had pretty special treatment, royal treatment, because we were
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: there were three there's a mom and two cubs with
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: a kill on the ice there, and so we were
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: we were a couple of miles from the icebreaker. But
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: he was kind of watching the bears too. He's up
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: on this high conning tower and so I'm talking to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: him on the radio about you know, the bears in
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: our experience and yeah, I bet you see those bears
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: a lot better from up there than we do. And
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: then I bet you can see how far the ice
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: flow goes that way, and he's like, yeah, it goes
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that way a long ways. You'll be you'll be driving
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: for a while.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: So we were hunting up and down the ice float
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: trying to find a path through it.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to with a sailboat. I mean,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: we don't break ice. I mean we can, we can
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: sort of move it around super heavy, but he so there,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a bunch of young guys on a
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: bunch of Coasti's on a on a on an Arctic
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: vacation tour. It's probably not here, but they called me
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: back and they're like, you know, we got to probably
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: make a hole here. We've got a chip coming through
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: pretty soon anyway. Yeah, you want to take a kind
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: of a run through with us, good training drive for
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, beats the hell out of going north
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: twenty miles. Sure, let's do this. And so these are
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: big red ships that he says, Oh, and by the way,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: we break ice at nine knots he which is faster
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: than most sailboats can go period. Yeah, and we'll do
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: the best we can. We got a fast boat, and
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: so he did a big circle around. We locked in
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: behind him. He said, get as close as you can,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and we went. He went through the ice as fast
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: as he could. We went behind him as fast as
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: we could. But so what's not well known. I didn't
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: know that, you know, the ice breakers break the ice.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: The ice probably is starting to close up. But that
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: ice that he breaks has to go someplace. Yes, some
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: of it goes down under his boat, some of it
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: comes shooting back up and so it was a slalom
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: course in there, sort of a high speed nerve wracking.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: We did hit ice a couple of times.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Small, small, but yeah.
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: And I'd say that is this an aluminum boat?
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: No, it's fiberglass.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, basically really interesting part of it is so I'm
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: up on the bow calling filming. I'm film and everything right,
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: and I look back and Graham is like white knuckled
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: up totally.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Kind of.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: Think it shouldn't be that hard. We're just following another
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: boat that just cleared a path. But what it was
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: we were in their prop wash and so you were
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: trying everything you could just to keep.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: The boat jump and ice is coming at us.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: And so underwater the boat's just getting thrashed back and.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It was pretty It was fun. I mean, in hindsight,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: that was one of those experiences that not paining people
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: get to do that.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I remember when we were in southern Greenland, when we
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: were getting ready to drop the Arctic trucks to cross
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the island, we used an icebreaker. We couldn't have gotten
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the landing craft. The landing craft is very suitable and
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that was carrying yes, exactly, so the icebreaker was busting
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: a path with the landing craft to get up to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: this shelf of ice. I mean it was so thick
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: at one point that the icebreaker can't get through it.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: But that's where you want to drop the truck because
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: you can drive on it because it's so thick. What
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: he does, We go amazing experience.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Neat and we got to see a lot of polar
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: bears up close that were walking around.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Brand and I got chased. Chased, we walked backwards rapidly.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: It was the fastest speed walking backwards in reverse. Yeah.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's so many parallels between overlanding and blue
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: water sailing or expedition sailing. I mean, you have a
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: land cruiser, you have a love for vehicle based travel
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: as well. But what I found in my very limited,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: compared to YouTube sailing experience is that it's like overlanding,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: but more difficult because you can't pull over things. When
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: things are really bad, you're in it until it's over.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Whereas you know you have a vehicle mechanical problem, you
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: can get it towed over to a little pull out
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: and you can come up with a plan like you're
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: in it until it's over one way or the other.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Risk the risk factors a lot higher.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly if you are it's like overlanding, and the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: more interesting the places you go, the more prepared you
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: need to be to solve whatever it is that happens.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: We went to quite a few areas up there that
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: there just weren't other people. Yeah, and you wouldn't see
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: anybody for a week.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Well, especially after you leave tuck t yuktuk. There's just
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: not much up there. Yeah until what resolute.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Definitely, So Cambridge Bay is in there in that sort
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: of span. Cambridge Bay is probably the only place we saw.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say that.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: I think one of the most remote areas that from
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: a feeling of remoteness was where the Hudson Bay Company
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: station was and getting through that cut was the name
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: of that cut, oh old.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: So there's a cut.
• 10:02
  Speaker 6: It's about a mile wide and about fifteen miles long,
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: and it's Scott's the south end of Somerset Island, and
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: it's got a fourteen knock current go either way. Sure,
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: sure you know when it's flowing and it goes both ways.
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: And how long is it just to get through it?
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: It's if you're doing it at slack, I mean maybe
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: an hour okay, two hours, you could end up really yeah.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's a lot of like bad stories, yeah,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: boats sinking there.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I have to tell the So I've done a couple
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: of trips up into the Arctic, and and so the
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: first time I went up there in that same bellat straight, straight,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: straight old, get brain turned on eventually. So the first
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: time I was there, straight was pretty packed with ice,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: more ice than we saw in it. And one hard
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: aluminum boat, modern French design boat was squeezed by the ice.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: And popped like a cork.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: And so and a woman on that boat had to
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: get out and spent I think they spent twenty four
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: hours on the ice on an ice flow, yeah, on
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: an ice floe, on moving ice. And then by moving
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: it's it's moving, yeah, fourteen current. Yeah, And so they
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: had to wait for They said, it's either the polar
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: bears or the coast guard. Somebody's going to get us.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: And the helicopter got them first. So it's pretty pretty interesting,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: terrifying story.
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: And that was.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I was listening to it on the radio thinking, oh
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: my goodness, I was at the time. I was there
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: with my family, Yeah, and I'm thinking what am I
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: doing I've got ice all around me too. We were,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: we were plugged in by ice at that point. But
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: listening to this on the radio was one of those
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: things that you know, makes you realize that the consequences
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: are legitimate.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: In that point.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I remember, Brian you mentioned a similar story, because I
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: didn't remember you telling me that one. But yeah, there
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was another boat that was super strong and it got
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: popped up out of the ice.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: The same location.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: This was maybe four days before we went through the
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: Bellet Straight, and it's on the This happened on the
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: east end of the Bellet Straight near the Hudson Bay
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: Trading Post, and in that area there's quite a few
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: big rock outcroppings that break the surface, and then there's
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: a lot of whirlpools as well. And so the story
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: that we heard from the group that had gone through
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: before us, they were coming the other way from east
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: to west. A boat got was there, following one another.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: The last boat got pinned between two ice flows, popped
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: up out of the water onto its side onto an
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: ice floe spun around three sixty degrees.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Everybody had to be to hold on for dear sixty. Yeah.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Big aluminum, big strong aluminum, expensive.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: So the beautiful boat they spin around because now the
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: ice thing is trapped in a whirlpool. And then the
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: ice flow that they were on cracked in half and parted. Yeah,
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: they plopped back in the water and kept on going.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: Give me out of it.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: We never really got anything close to that.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I can just imagine that. Oh my goodness, lets you go.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Well, and what you told me last night that I
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: found was so fascinating. You just alluded to it. But
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: this is that was your successful crossing of the Northwest
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Passage with Brian a few years ago. Was your second
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: time through, because the first time you were there with
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: your family and you made it about halfway, right, Yeah,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: not quite halfway.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, it depends on where you measure from. But
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: we had really terrible ice year that that particular year,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and a lot of weather, a lot of wind. So
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the wind driven ice basically plugged the passage and for all.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: But I think one sailboat got through. Yeah, and they
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: got through really early actually the other direction, coming towards Alaska.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: The rest of us were stuck. And we were stuck
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: in the ice for a long time, and eventually the
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Canadian Coast Guard called us and said, hey, guys, it's
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: time to go home. We're leaving. The icebreakers are leaving.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: If you would like, if you and your family would
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: like to stay right where you are, freeze in for
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the winner.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: You can do that, and there are people that do.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: But we're going home and you should too. And I
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: looked at my daughters and my wife and they're like
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: the best part. Kind of the inspiration from all that
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: was so you deal with failure, right, this is you know,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: we've spent a lot of money and a lot of
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: time and kind of the family dream to do this thing,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and we're not going to make it. So there were tears,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: but my oldest daughter eventually turned to me and said,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: you know, Dad, it's been reading too many sailing books.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: But the whalers after their whaling season, when it begins
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: to freeze up here, whalers, they all go to Lahina.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Can we go to Lahina? I have a pretty fast sailboat,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: so I said, yeah, we can go to Lahina. And
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: so Dutch Harbor to Lahina in dog barks about ten
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: days wow. And so we got down to Dutch Harbor,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: loaded up, put the tuna jigs out and headed for Lahina.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: And behind us changed quite a bit in that in
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the last year. That was prior to all of the
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: fires there. But boy, what a wonderful welcome after being
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: in the ice. You know, they were so nice to
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: us and family was ecstatic to get there.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And then I think you had mentioned that you guys
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: decided then to kind of sail more in the South Pacific.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, so we actually went down so from Hawaii,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and Hawaii's wonderful place. It's not it's a difficult place
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: to cruise, like if you want to if I think
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of cruising on a sailboat like overlanding, there are places
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: where it's really easy and the terrain is right essentially,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: you know why is hard, big mountains, the wind in
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: those channels is challenging. So some of the windiest sailing
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: we did crossing the between Maui and the Big Island.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: And so we did did some cruising there and my
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: family said, well, let's go to the Marquessas. And because
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: for my honeymoon, my wife said, how about we sail
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: to Hong Kong for our honeymoon. Different boat halber Grassy.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: We're having a halber Grassy story, and so my kids
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: had I mean I've got tattoos from the Marquesas, and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: it's actually the only place I will let people put
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: needles in my body in the Marquesses. But it's it
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: was one of those experiences that I wanted to share
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: with them, and so we're able to go down go
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: we did the Marquesas. The to motives are amazing cruising
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden and you can go from
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: being in the Arctic and there's a kind of blue
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: water in the Arctic that is really striking. Where you
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: guys went swimming with all those jellyfish up there. Yeah,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: that was I mean it's almost glacial blue. And then
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: to go to the Tuamoto and have this beautiful blue
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: green experience is just amazing.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So my kids have had they had to put up
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: with a lot of torture, but at least.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting to again come back
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: to those parallels between blue water expedition, sailing and overlanding.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: But you know, like overlanding would be the classic routes
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: would be like the Silk Road or the length of
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Africa or crossing Antarctica, these these very classic uberland routes,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: and sailing has similar ones. I mean the ones that
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: come to mind for me is like one of the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: great prizes that remains is the Northwest Past. It's getting
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: a little bit easier to do that, but it's only
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: been you know, other than overwintering, it's only been in
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the last decade or so that people are regularly attempting
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: to cross the Northwest Passage in privately owned sailboats or
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: other privately owned boats, even motor yachts. So it's fairly
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: recent that's been even feasible to do. And then the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: other one that you and I talked about last night,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: which is Point Nemo, which is something that well, yeah,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: and it to me, it's it's on my bust bucket list,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: but it's only because I'm so ignorant of what that
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: exactly means. You know, I've looked at it on the map,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and I've I've cruised around on Google Earth, and I'm like,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that is really really far from land in any direction.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: So for the for the listener and the viewer, Point
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: Nemo is it is the most remote point on the planet.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: The furthest away from furthest away.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: From land, and there's nothing there, so there's no actual
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: It's a point on a map it's not it's not
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: an island, it's not a point of land. It is
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: just to point on the map that is the furthest
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: way from anything else.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: It's so far from anything else that that is where
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the International Space Agencies drop all their trash, like the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: like all of all the secrets, we're not going to
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: get invested here, all of the all of the yeah,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: all of the satellites. That's where they plan to bring
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the International Space Station out of a little bit. So
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I think you probably want to time it to make
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: sure either.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: That you're there. That could be kind of cool.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, either you want to make sure you're there
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: on that day or you want to make sure that
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: you're not a little nimble though I don't know. Yeah,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I think that would all just come down to chance.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: But that would be pretty neat to see the space
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: station come out of the come out of.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: The I think the rarity of some of these achievements,
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: like the Northwest Passage is so dog bark was when
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: we did that, it was number two hundred and ninety
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: six something like that. As far as the number of
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: private trips that had gone through and some of those
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: what it's not two hundred ninety six boats. It was
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: two hundred ninety six trips. Because there's yeah, we met
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: a few people who had done that, done it five
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: or six times.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and very few of those are It's a
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: very small circle of people who are doing that regularly.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: And then there's a crossed an Arctica. I mean, that's
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: very rare.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: It's pretty similar that. I think, you know the differences
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: up there. Change is happening at a rate that I
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: think it's in the press all the time. You know,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: we're Canada in particular, is really investing in that area.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to be.
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: An important geopolitical.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Conversation for all of us.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: First, it will ultimately be a very viable commercial route.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean that has been the goal. It's right
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: now it is not a very viable commercial route, but
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: unless you have a submarine, in which case it's a fine.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: We went into one of the Inuit villages that we
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: visited and we're talking to some locals and he looked
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: at me really serious, and he kind of whispered and
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: he said.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Did you see any submarines?
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: Like, we didn't see any submarines, because there can like
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: a lot of folks will see stuff up there that
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: kind of shows up and then disappears. There's a lot
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: of traffic that nobody really knows about.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense, and that you know, those passages
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: count too, but we don't know very much about.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I think a combination of the global weather opening that
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: up and changing the ice flows in the seasons, and
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: then I think also shared knowledge. It's a lot easier
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: for people to use the Internet in different modes of communication,
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: to be able to share how to do it and
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: the way.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I mean it's some of the same starlink is Starlink
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: enabled all kinds.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Of staring the entire time.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: The first time I went up there, we were not
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: you know, we were using a radium based systems Iridium
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Go basically you know that sort of hunt and peck emails,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: glorified texting by and startling. Four of us could basically
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: be talking to work or the coast Guard or whoever
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: at the same time.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: And we had we had immediate access to government issued
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: in scientific ice charts, right, so they're really racking down ice.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Load pictures of ice every twelve hours or so.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And then we could overlay wind patterns on top of
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: those to predict where the Ice was going to move
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: to Yeah, sure.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So it was really the tech has changed the game
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: If you think about it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Just two years before that, when you and I crossed
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the Pacific, Brian, we didn't have starlink, No, we had
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: we had very expensive like it was like eight thousand
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: dollars a month.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: It was AKVH GIMBALEDKVH satellite ball that was in like
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: this egg on the bottom back of the boat.
• 22:51
  Speaker 7: Not a week goes by that someone doesn't reach out
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: to ask how they can help support the podcast. We
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: are supported entirely by Overland Journal, the magazine. So when
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal print magazine,
• 23:06
  Speaker 7: you get this beautiful book that comes in five times
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: a year. It also gives you access to our digital
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: archive and it's well over one hundred pages of gorgeous
• 23:15
  Speaker 7: images and detailed testing and adventures from around the globe.
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: So if you go to Overland Journal dot com and
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: you subscribe to the magazine, use the code Overland Podcast
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: and that'll get you twenty percent off. It's only available
• 23:29
  Speaker 7: to our podcast listeners. We don't advertise it anywhere else,
• 23:32
  Speaker 7: And then you help us to maintain that independent employee
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: owned journalism that we have been famous for, so it
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: allows us to conduct those tests without any advertorial Another
• 23:44
  Speaker 7: way you can help out to I produced a book
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: last year with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding One oh one.
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: You can find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: or even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades
• 23:57
  Speaker 7: of travel around the world, all my mistakes and failures
• 23:59
  Speaker 7: and the lessons that I've learned in traveling around the globe.
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: Many of those that you hear on the podcast had
• 24:06
  Speaker 7: been distilled down into print form with great lists and
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: beautiful imagery, So you can find that at your local bookstore.
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: Overlanding one on one. And thank you all for listening
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: and for supporting us so much throughout these years.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: As eight grand a month, yes, right, and when you
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: got when you got up into the northern latitudes, the
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: further north you got, the less coverage you had because
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: the satellite for so low in orbit.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And plus combined with the heel of the boat. Yeah,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I remember that was one of the challenges. The satellite
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: could only get heel over, it could only heal over
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: so far before it lost connection.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Right, But starlink now makes complete. So we used starlink.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: We used they were Canadian issued ice chart.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, the Canadians really do a nice job.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: And then we used predict wind quite a bit for
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: the wind patterns for you, as I use that for
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Lake Roosevelt.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, same thing.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: The technology. I mean, these are shared technologies that I think,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not just for sailors or for boaters.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I think that I use Windy as another app. I mean,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: if you were that's the one that Windy is outstanding.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: It's outstanding when you want to see pre SIP moving
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: across an area, you know, the satellite radar is all there,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and to have all that on your phone in real time,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: it's pretty amazing.
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: We had I think we had two or three garment
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: in reaches on there, and we had another Iridium system
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: that was still on the boat that was still doing
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: I was pinging somebody.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually that was the tracker. So the rideom Go
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: provided the tracking data for predict whens so that you
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: could see in real time where a dog bark was
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: as we were moving across. Yeah, that's a pretty good
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: use of that kind of low bandwidth technology.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we definitely you know, I think trips like that
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: into those remote areas on a sailboat, you really start
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: to appreciate redundancies. And we experience that in overlanding. You
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: have a couple of different systems that might back things up.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: You've got some spares, you've got some emergency kits. But
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: I'll remember that we so dog Bark has two autopilot systems,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: and when you're doing a trip like that, the autopilot
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: becomes another very valuable crew member. And we had a
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: few experiences with one system that was getting very confused
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: because of the magnetic goodness. Yeah, the magnetic discrepancies up
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: in those high latitudes.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Anybody who talks about the magnetic North Pole as a
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: as a fixed place, it hasn't been there, and it
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: moves and there is interference in the area, and you
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: can quite literally watch your compass around like this and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: you think, I don't think we're at the North Pole.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: I think the first time we realized that the boat
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: actually did a three sixty wow, like we were like,
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: what is it? Very very slowly, but we realized that
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: we're pointing the wrong direction, and it did a full
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: circle all on.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Its own, and and so magnetic compasses are good for
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of things, a lot of places, but maybe
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: not there.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: So we were able to switch from you switch from
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: one system to the other while you recalibrate the first one,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: switch back and forth. It was just the redundancies and
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: a lot of the spare party.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: You basically have to input the declination from.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: The Yeah, you can do that manually with the older autopilot.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: The newer one wants you to drive around in circles
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: until it figures.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: It all out.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, you know, the poll is moving, and so it
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: had a heck of a time trying to auto calibrate.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I think we kind of had to force it eventually
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: we did.
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: So let's let's talk a little bit about your experience
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: adventuring in the world of overland.
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: So you tell us about the lank Is you've got.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: So I have I have an old So it's a
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: it's a two thousand and six land cruiser, so it's
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: not that old, but it's not that new either, yep.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: And it is vehicle.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're great, and it's you know, it's sort of
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a workhourse. So I have that on a first gen
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: tundra that is the Ignick truck that you know has
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: the roof tops and desk boxes, and basically we drive
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: that truck. One of the perks I'm a little pump
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: for Ignick here, but one of the perks of working
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: for Ignick is that somebody has to drive that truck
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: to these shows, which is an opportunity to have a
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: week long camping experience. And so we we do, you know,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: the five overland shows we do in the wintertime. We
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: do like snow on snow stuff, and so we spend
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you know, upwards of thirty days a year sleeping in
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: in the truck. Yes, actually sometimes on asphalt down here.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: At least you guys have gus under this ring.
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: Not so much.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Camp is something exactly.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Not my fault.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Find me a holiday, but but yeah, we The ability
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to work in an environment that you truly enjoy is
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: something that I did not learn right away in life.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I've worked, I've done all kinds of stupid things professionally,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: but but working in the space makes the work fun.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And so you know, we we laugh about who's yeah,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I gotta drive the truck down to flag Staff. Know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: we were fighting over who gets down there.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Because you guys are based out of the Pacific Cambridge Island,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: so that is that's a beautiful the world.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: We're happy to be there. Yeah, but you know we
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: kind of travel all over the west. Yeah, we don't
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: drive to the East show so that one.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did a few years and there's nothing wrong
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: with Overland Expo East. But for whatever reason, Brian and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I are cursed with weather, Like the weather.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Was so the hurricane show.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: It was so bad for us one year that parked
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: cars like with nobody in them. We're sliding down the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: hill at and like piling up at the bottom of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the hill. I was like, you know, maybe the universe
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: is telling me that this isn't the show.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: There were three or four years in a row they
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: they had.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: I'm all about it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: There are a hurricane a few years in a row
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: that just we get right on the edge of the
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: cell and it just saturated everything.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: It was such a beautiful place. It is and we
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: actually all these shows have interesting opportunities and challenges, right,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: you know this one is it's glorious on the market here.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I think So Cal Market is the most stoked overland.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: They really are, and they're crazy here.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: You got a lot of folks coming right out of
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: La this whole area.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm also seeing just a very different attitude,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: like people are here just to have fun for the day,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Whereas I think that the folks that are making the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: trip the flag Staff, they're a little bit more deeply committed,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: they're mate and I think that there's a little bit
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: more strongly opinionated as well. It's like, whereas these southern
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: California folks are like, I'm out here with my kids
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: for the day.
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: I love my Tacoma, Like this, what are you cooking?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing a really a really great attitude out of
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the people that are attending this show, which I think
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: is really.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Neat and we need more of that. I mean, it
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: is you know, it is work, and you know we
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: talked about consequences earlier, but it should also be fun.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: It should be fun.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: So seeing these people here have fun, They're whooping and
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: hollering out there right now.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is definitely a family environment.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing tons of which is you know, you don't
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: have an industry. You don't have a business if you
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: don't have young people involved with it, if you don't
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: see kids. We can see a lot of families here,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: which I think is really encouraging. Well, i'd love to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I'd love to circle a little bit into some of
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: your professional experience, because you mentioned to me last night
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: that you would you've sold three businesses, which when we
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: were talking earlier before we started to hit the record button,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: it's only four percent of business owners that get to
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: a successful exit. They all exit in one way or
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: yet it's not a successful Yeah, it's not a successful exit.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: It's you know that they've had they got to shut
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: their business down, or they they've gotten into so much
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: debt that they can't carry the load anymore, or they
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: time out physically. I've heard that the number one reason
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: why businesses fail is because the founder runs out of energy.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: They literally they.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Wake up one day and they say that the prospects
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: of going forward feel more daunting than the prospect of failure.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So I would love to hear a little bit from
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: you about, like, what what are the things that you
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: learned in three successful exits, which has got to be
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: in the point zero zero zero kind of time range
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: of success.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So I truly think that being an entrepreneur is it's
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: one of the hardest things that anybody can choose, and
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, all of us, actually
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: made those choices without knowing what we were getting into.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: There is a leap of faith that is required to
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: do this, and that blissful ignorance allows you to say,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I got this right. And I think that you know,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the entrepreneurial process is the is going from I got
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: this to and not knowing how to when you land.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: In order to stick the landing, you've got to you've
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: got to be able to take the how and build
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: it into a business sure, so that it isn't us
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: doing all of the work. The processes have to be
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: built out. But I think that so what you said
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: about entrepreneurs who bonk, essentially who run out of energy
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: for the job, it really resonates with me because the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: middle of the night, you can't get to sleep, How
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: are we going to make payroll? How are we gonna
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: How am I going to survive this? I don't know.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Pick up recent catastrophe COVID or supply chain disruptions or
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: terriff impacts, whatever it is, all of those things can
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: be totally terrifying. And my attitude is we'll figure it out.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: A lot of resilience.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Resilience and the blissful ignorance. Confidence also belief in your
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: people that you know it's not I got this, but
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: there's some we to that. But I think that at
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, it comes down to.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: Persistence and persist today.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Persistence is I'm not gonna quit today. I'm not going
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: to bulk today, and I don't have the answers. You know,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: being honest with yourself that not having the answers doesn't
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: mean the show is over. It just means we're gonna
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: We're gonna have to keep trying stuff and maybe we're
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: gonna fail, fail quickly, and don't let the mistakes that
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: we all make sink the boat.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Well, And when you say not fail, not all failures
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: the end.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Of the day, right, not of fact, it allows for Frankly,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: bankruptcy is not the end of the day. There are
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can recover from almost anything if you
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: are dumb enough, tough enough, stubborn enough, brilliant enough, or
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: lucky enough.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I think that those handfuls a definitely except for the brilliant,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I definitely had luck and dumb enough.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And if those things, I don't think there's any secret sauce.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Persistence is the word that I use to describe, you know,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: the willingness kind of not to give up, and not
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: not so much not to give up, but to keep
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: trying to find solutions. That for me, it's the belief
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: that sooner or later somebody's going to solve this problem.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Why not me, you know? And I think that is
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: and luck, you know, luck, I mean, there's there is
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: no I would love to say that, you know, it's
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: it's brilliant, but it's kind of the other four things
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: that that actually get you through.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think about it.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Even in this industry that there there's been a lot
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: of people that were way smarter than me, right, that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: didn't make it right.
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Times, I mean I can think back so many times
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: where I was like, I don't know how we're going
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: to make it, and then Brian would call me up
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: and he'd be like, Scotty, I just got this contrast,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: and it's just like out of nowhere, we were saved
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: for another day, and it just gave us. It gave
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: us enough momentum to be able to build a reputation
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and to be able to deliver on our vision and
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it allowed us to survive. And I know that you know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it's very We've talked about that, you and I have
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: where like it's very easy to have that survivorship bias
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: of like I made all these great decisions. I'm not
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: so convinced of that, especially for myself. I think that
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I had great people. I had people that I trusted,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: that I worked with, that we all worked on the
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: same level I was. I never felt like I was
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the guy in charge because I wanted everybody to be
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: able to make decisions without me because I was gone
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: a lot, I traveled a lot. So I think that
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: we had timing on our side. I think we had
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of luck on our side. And I think
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: we had just enough time to build a reputation that
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: people wanted to work with us, and it got us
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: through it.
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: But it's very tough. It's very tough.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Well, so the quality I've been a fan of Overland
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Journal might kind of since the first one was put
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: in my hands. It was beautiful, world class work. So
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: that's that's something too. I mean, you have to you
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: have to have you have to have something that you
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: are uniquely good at. Yeah, and you guys made me
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: come to my cabin on Mount Rain. Hear there are
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: old episodes, you know, sitting next to the toilet.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Sorry, there there however, and it is.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: That inspiration is still there for me, and that's pretty cool,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: you know. I think in my case it's less about
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: that sort of artistic brilliant. For me, it was there
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: are all of these problems, and you know we our
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: products are not perfect. We make mistakes, but we also
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: fix mistakes. Right, So if making a mistake once it's
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: pretty easy to do, pretty pretty normal, that's that's life people.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: But your ability to convert that into learning and to
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: use that learning to move forward, I think, you know
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: that's the ignect secrets of us. You know, we're not
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: We are here to fix stuff that bothers us about,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: like products should don't need to necessarily create waste. And
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: if we can make products that are a little more sustainable,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: and each product, but each generation becomes a little more sustainable,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: that's progress. And I think that product companies need to
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: be able to make progress if they're going to stay
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: in business.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And so for us, that's one thing I would say
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that you did a great job of, too, is that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: you identified where's the greatest opportunity in this area of
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: discipline which you guys have, which is around heating or
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: swarming people around a campfire and also preparing food. It's
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: very common thing that everybody does when they go camping,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: but it's there's more and more fire restrictions than every before.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: So if you were to go into business to say, hey,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I'm going to make a really beautiful camping fire tray
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: for wood fires, I don't know if that's a good idea.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: It's going to get harder and harder to sell it.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: That would be something you might want to learn from. Right,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: you might say, huh, so sparks are not a good idea.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: How do we do this without sparks? How do we
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: do this with a non off switch? How do we
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: The hardest problems can be broken down into relatively simple things,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: and you don't have to solve every problem all the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: way all at once. It's okay to say this is
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: better than you know what went before, and I think
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: you know if you can, Rather than like my wife
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: is a perfectionist, I am.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I'm about progress. Like let us just let us make
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: a difference a little bit out of time, rather than
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: trying to solve the world's problems at.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: Once, you are also filling a void and solving problems
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: or filling a need that maybe not everybody realizes is there. Right,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: So Overland Journal has always been very unique offering.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: There was never anything like it before, and there's other
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: really truly nothing still like it. Yeah, and you know
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: with Ignick, you have talked to me before about this
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: a pretty significant passion about green gas bottles. Yeah, the
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: disposable green bottles that everybody and so you guys took
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: that as a bit of a challenge and said, we're
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: going to find a.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: Solution for that to reuse them.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, to eliminate the need for them, yea, to
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: have a reusable solution. And you know, honestly, if I
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: could have replaced green bottles with something like today, we
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: make a one pound refillable cylinder that is essentially a
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: one for one replacement for the green bottle, and that's
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: called the tap rack. But we didn't. We came out
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: of the Arctic the first time in twenty eighteen and
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: started Ignick. It's taken us that long to get to
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: a solution, but our first solution was, let's get a
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: refillable propane tank that is small enough and portable enough
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: and has a handle and maybe hoses in a afters
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: that you can use it to do the work of
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: a green bottle and refill it easily. That we called
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: the gas growler. That was the sort of the first thing,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: but for us, that was a perfect example of this
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: is better than those things that I don't still don't
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: know how to throw away. It's got its limitations. And
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: then we eventually got to the tap wreck, which is
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: a sort of a take these four one pound bottles
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: to the service station, put propane in them. Here's my
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: three dollars, let's go. You know, it's now a much
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: more convenient solution than trying to shrink a barbecue propane
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: tank down to a portable size.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: And coming out of the Arctic. The first time, it
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: was the handwarmers.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Well, the hand warmers. There was a whaling camp that
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I can't tell anybody about, but I can't shut up about.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: We're at a whaling camp and they were living in
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: the whalers. We're living in shipping containers, and they were
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: heating the shipping containers with those little screw on catalytic
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: eaters screw onto one pound bottles and I walked into
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: that shipping container and I was like, oh my goodness.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And you know there obviously it takes a lot of
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: one pound bottles to heat a shipping container. And you know,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: we show up, we've got these aluminum lightweight refillable or
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: composite lightweight refillable tanks, and I would just why. And
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: it comes down to awareness, right, it's not I think
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: many people don't know that propane tanks come in almost
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: any size.
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: You want.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Now, buy the tank with the specs that you need,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: buy any nick tank, buy another whatever, it doesn't matter,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: but buy one that's right for your needs, and then
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: refill it rather than.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Try to access access.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I hear that all the time now that
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: there are so many good refillable solutions. I ask people, well,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: so why are you still using green bottles? And they're like,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: you know, for me, it's one hundred miles to get
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: to anywhere that I can get a propane And I
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: was just like, well, you need a bigger propane tank, right, sure, yeah,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: that's that's again that's a solvable problem.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: But along with the businesses that you've been involved in,
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: you also seem to be quite a like almost on
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: an engineering side.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: You're a product designer.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: I remember we were on dog Bark.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: And I and you've got we've got the Christmas tree
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: of headlamps, right, so it's a vertical pull and all
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: these headlamps.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Strapped to it.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: And I grab a headlamp and I was like, oh,
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: I've got the same one at home. And I said
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: I really like this one. And you kind of chimed
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: in and said yeah, but it's got this problem.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't know. It works pretty well,
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: and he goes, no, I designed it. I know all
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: about the problems.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Joking back camp being headlamp designer. There a bunch of
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: closet headlamp designers running around, so yes, we did do
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I did a bunch of lighting design I actually my
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: background's weird. I graduated from school and I moved to Taiwan.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I worked in electronics.
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: Mean, incredible, how long did you live there?
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I lived in Taiwan, So I worked for a Taiwanese multinationals.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I lived in Taiwan for four years. But I also
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: we had a factory in Thailand. So I mean getting
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: paid to work in you know, amazing places is the gig.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I learned that at like twenty three. You mean, you're
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: paying me to be to work in Thailand, let's do this?
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: Amazing?
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did that. I did that until the
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: mid nineties. I moved back because of the woman that
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I am currently married to. Amazing, but I did. I
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: did a good stint in Asia.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: And how many languages are you up to?
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: So I speak?
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I speak Chinese pretty fluently.
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: That that's pretty useful.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: And I can swear in a couple more languages.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: No. I think that having the ability to live abroad
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: and to experience cultures is another one of those things
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: that I think transforms humans. And I you know, I'm
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: preaching to the crowd obviously, but you know, if we
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: could get you know, our kids to travel more, and
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: that's about the best thing that we could do to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: make better humans because they have it. It makes them independent,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: it makes them competent, and it gives them It gives
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: them a sort of awareness that our perspectives aren't People
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily may look different, they may speak differently, but
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: but you know, they've also got really different problems in
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: some of the other places. So you go to the
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Arctic and they are humans that are really worthy of respect. Yes,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: they they live their life. Challenges are real life challenges,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: and you know it gives you context when you know,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: I can't connect my phone to the internet. That's not
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: a life challenge.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: You come back from traveling to some areas like that,
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: and it's what you thought were problems before you left
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: art in.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Significant it really you know, it's reassuring to me come
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: back and how are we going to make payroll? We'll
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: figure that out. And you know we do not have
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: polar bears in the backyard.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: We can let our kids go and play in the backyard,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: so it's different.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to ask you about,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Graham is you know you've done how many hundreds of
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: thousands of miles have you sailed around the world.
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: Let's get a number.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I don't let's say more than one hundred. Brian was
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: asking me, so I it's probably more than that. So
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: I my dad was a commercial fisherman. I did thirteen
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: or fourteen seasons, you know, on fishing boats, and those
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: miles are hard to count. But we're kind of running
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: from California to Alaska. The months on the water so
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: you can months on the water every year. So I
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: probably did forty or fifty thousand miles as you know,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: as a kid, as a young adult, and then I
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: got into sailboats and started racing sail boats. I've done seven,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: you know, sort of Hawaii trips from either Alaska down
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: to Hawaii or a bunch of racing from mostly from
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: California and Washington.
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: And that boat that you have is meant for that.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: In fact, yea, if I remember, that boat has won
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the trans Pact several times, right.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I think three times? Three times. Yeah, So it's uh,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: the boat's fast. But I've done it on a bunch
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: of other boats. I've done on really modern race carbon
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: fiber raceboats.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: Some of the listeners might know more than we think.
• 48:34
  Speaker 7: So it's.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: A It is a carbon fiber rocket ship. Everything on
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: it is carbon and they are capable of insane speeds
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: really some of the funnest things that ever. It doesn't foil,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: but it planes like crazy. So you know you're you're
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: sailing down wind that twenty five twenty five not plus
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: top speed on twenty twenty eight dog barks top speed
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: twenty eight twenty nine knots. You know, these boats when
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: they're set up to go down when they fly, but
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: from a living experience, what you have here is so
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: much more comfortable. So you're in this carbon fiber tunnel,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: and there are fourteen of us in this carbon fiber tunnel.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: We have bunks that are this wide carbon tubing, and
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: you get into your sort of pipe berth. You ratchet
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: the pipe berd up so you can't fall out because
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: the boat is flying through the air and jumping off waves,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and so you squish yourself on the high side of
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: the boat against the wall as tight as you can,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: and you attempt to sleep for four hours before you
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: get up and do it again. And so use headlamps
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day because there's no light down
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: there whatsoever. It's a really different people do that strange
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: things for.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: Fun, doing it for fun.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: It's all for fun, but how much learning comes out
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: of racing that they can then experien in regular sales well.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: And the things we do with Dynama and you know
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: that even carbon all that you know that comes from
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: the Bleeding Edge, which is the TP fIF two fleet. Yeah,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: and the Spectra and you know all of the high
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: end ultra light backpacks all of that tech.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: We used to work with. Was it Viking. We used
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: to work with a recovery.
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: Equipment company, all Icelandic Guys Icelandic fishing equipment. They were
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: all fishermen, and so they were taking a lot of
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: the rigging that they were using on the fishing boats
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: and realized they could just recover vehicles with it because
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: it was so.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Strong, right, And I think that, you know, that's wonderful.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many places that there's cross pollination.
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, even the soft shackle was on sailboats before it
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: ever came into the vehicle recovery.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: And you know one of those pulley blocks that are
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: used for recovery now. One of the things that I
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to ask with all of those years of working
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: in teams on sail boats and are high stress conditions
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: crossing oceans with your own family, which is a totally
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: different experience from a different a crew from a different
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Let's share with the listener some of the things that
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: you've learned through that, Like how has that changed you
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: as a person? Like how how is Graham different today
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: after all of that learning than thirty years ago?
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: So I think, you know, I have more appreciation for
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: what humans are capable of. It is I mean, and
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: small children are their amazing clay for creativity. They become,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: you know, the most interesting people in the world very
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: quickly if they are truly challenged. Yeah, I am about
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: as far from being a helicopter parent as you can.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I'm a parachute parent, like strap them in, check them,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: tell me how, you're probably gonna make it to the
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: ground sooner or later. But I believe that we learn
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: by doing, and to some degree we learn by failing,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: and kids learn so much faster than we do as
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: adults that it's a crying shame that we aren't torching
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: our children more because there's so much learning opportunity there now.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: I really believe that people have to get out and
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: have adventures and become uncomfortable, find their comfort zones, stretch
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: their comfort zones, and I just think that their lives
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: will be so much richer if they can do that.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: And my threshold for pain is different than other people.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I think you can. I think the willingness to go
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: out there and try stuff that maybe you don't understand
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: and learn a little bit as you do. That it's
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: wonderful and sailors are this group of people who are dreamers.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, the ability to execute on a dream
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: is an amazing thing. That's how adventures happen, right, That's
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: how expeditions succeed. Is you have to be crazy enough
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: to dream something big, and then you have to be
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: stubborn enough, persistent enough to execute on that dream. And
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: that's how that's how great adventures have some bad ones too.
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I completely agree.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: And it comes down to the realization that if we
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: don't stretch ourselves, if we don't test ourselves on a
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: regular basis, we can completely normalize to a fraction of
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: our potential potential. So it's not just about having a
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: big idea or a big dream. We've got to build
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: ourselves up to that. In addition to having a big
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: dream of driving around the world, or sailing around the world,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: or sailing in the Northwest Passage or whatever. I mean,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Brian dreamt about doing that for as long as I've
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: known him. Yeah, as long as I have twenty years
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: I've known Brian. He is that has been a dream
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: of his to cross the Northwest Passage. Yeah, and he
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: kept himself tuned up, kept himself he was pushing himself,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: crossing the Pacific, living for years on his sailboat with
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: his wife Amy, and it put him in.
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: A position that he could do it. And that's right. Yeah,
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: And so it's it's not just.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: About having a big dream, although those are very important.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: That's fuel, that's like gets things going. But you've got
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: to have the ability to do it.
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: You got to keep pushing yourself, learning new things, building
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: your skills, building relationships with others.
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: That's part of it, a big part of it, right,
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: And being able to share those dreams, even to voice it.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: We met in the basement of the Sans Convention Center
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: during shot show and I think we had written an
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: article about Ignick and we were chit chatting and somehow
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: we started talking about boats and sailing and I said
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: Northwest Passage and he was like, wait what he said,
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: Northwest Passage, And before you know it, it happened. In fact,
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: I remember remember getting onto the boat because I had
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: not met anybody else on the crew except for Graham,
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: and I got on the boat and he Graham wasn't
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: there yet. He kind of came in the next day
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: and I I'm received by half the crew that was
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: already there and they kind of got a little bit
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: of the grilling, right, They're like, so, who are you
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: and what do you mean You guys met that a
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: trade show. You're now on this boat doing this thing,
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: and and it you know, what a great crew, what
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: a really flexible, friendly, welcoming group of people and all
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: incredibly skilled and talented. And that's part of the reason
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: we had such a great trip. But you know, that's
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: how those things come about.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: But the ability to communicate clearly and forde relationships makes
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: magic happen. And I think that for us, we were
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: just we had similar dreams and you have to be
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: able to arrange your life in a way that allows
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: you to go take August except I mean the adventures.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: The adventures are hard and you have to be able
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: to prioritize. You kind of have to train your family
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: that this is who I am and you know we're
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: going to have these strange adventures from time to time, and.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Well, the support of the family goes along.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: It's impossible to I mean, it's not impossible to do
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: these things alone.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: But boy, it's a lot less joyful, I think, right.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: And having you know someone who in the sailing world
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: we call short support, but having someone who supports you
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: makes whether that is making the you know, taking care
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: of the kids, or whether that is calling the coast
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: guard when you need help, right, short support is really
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: really valuable. So I have some of the best short
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: support on the planet.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Graham, it's been it's been an inspiration to meet
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: you and to hear your stories. I mean, I was
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: my mind was, absolutely I was trying to watch the film.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: It was a great film, but the whole time I'm thinking, like,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: how cool is it that this guy has You've pursued
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: your dreams as a professional, as an entrepreneur, but you've
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: also given yourself big chunks of time to celebrate those
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: successes and to go see the world with your family,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and that is a rare thing. And I think that
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: all of us need to be inspired. And having you
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: on this podcast it's an inspiration for me and I
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: know for Brian. Brian speaks so highly of you, and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I'm just so excited that our listeners get to hear
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: about what it means to sale around the world and
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: how it so much of it translates to overlanding. You know,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: for those that are listening, just remember, like keep testing yourself,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: get uncomfortable, find the things that give you that little
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: bit of a nod in your stomach because you're learning
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: something new and you're testing yourself and your vehicle and
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: your travel companions. And then forge relationships with people that
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: have similar dreams and you'll be shocked what will happen
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: when it all comes together. You might just find yourself
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: staring at a pull bear across across in the Northwest passage.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: That's I couldn't have said it better. That's really how
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: the magic happens. Yeah, you know, you guys have made
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: it happen over and over again. I think this show
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: is full of people who read about now are telling
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: really interesting stories about where the you know, where their
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: next adventure is or where their last one is. And
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: that's what makes this so much fun, so really lucky
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: to be able to do this.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: How do people find out more about your sailing adventures
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: on dog bark and then give people, you know, just
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: a quick insight on how to find out more about.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Sure so ignick is I g n i K dot com.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: There's all kinds of information about our product there, and
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: it's about our philosophies. And then if you're curious about
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: saying you want to see pictures of Brian swimming in
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: the Arctic. That is saledog bark dot com. And so
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: that is the way to all along with us. We've
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: actually got some stuff coming up, so I mentioned this.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: We're We're. The boat has overwintered in the maritime provinces
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: of Canada. We're headed for Greenland and Iceland this summer.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: So amazing.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: You know there'll be more good content coming back.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: I have no doubt. And the website is a great blog. Yeah.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: We had a few folks on the boat did a
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: great job of updating it regularly, some gifted photographers.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and one drone pilot.
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: A fearless drone pilot.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Every time I've attempted to fly a drone from a
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: sailboat has been a near disaster.
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: Every time the time near disaster.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: So we didn't lose a single drone.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: No, we didn't.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: You are And I've got another friend who's a very
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: good drum pilot, but he lost a couple on dog marks.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: So good record.
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: I got more and more confident the further along we went.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: The first day I was like, I'm not flying it,
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: And after a while I was like, let's keep it
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: right boy.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Some of the iceberg footage was just amazing.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: It's a great, great backdrop.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Well, Graham, thank you again for being on the podcast,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: and we thank you all for listening, and we'll talk
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: to you next time.