Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 305 - Receipts From New Orleans

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 305 - Receipts From New Orleans · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You remember like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, Rob Clark
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and Joe Bordelli.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: In the Heart of Dallas, Rerigons and fouls until Shadows,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: mysteries and sold but truth is obscured in the depths
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: of the night, The Lone Gun and Podcast sheds a
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: flickering light.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for research, analysis,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: education and commentary purposes. We hear at Loose Moose Productions
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: reserve that right now, on with the show. Here's Joe
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: B and the Triple b Hey and you Deane house
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: things in Texas.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Everything is going to hal down here in Doctor Janz.
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: Joey and Joey Joey and then trumble Bee Man and
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: Trumbley and Joey Rock Doggy, Joe Red, trumble B and
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: Joby Joey and Jimble Mame and Jumboby and.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: Joey Rock Doggy joe a Rag Showy, I want to
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: thinking and show.
• 1:32
  Speaker 6: Cham cha.
• 1:38
  Speaker 7: Cha and here we go.
• 1:46
  Speaker 8: And here we go kind of yes, our apologies for
• 1:52
  Speaker 8: not being live tonight. It is all Joe's fault for
• 1:55
  Speaker 8: having a prior familial commitments. But that's okay. It happens
• 2:01
  Speaker 8: every once in a while, but we are here with
• 2:02
  Speaker 8: you on this in the future. Friday evening for episode
• 2:08
  Speaker 8: number three hundred and five receipts from New Orleans episode
• 2:14
  Speaker 8: of the Lonecoming Podcast. I am big bad Bob, Rob
• 2:18
  Speaker 8: Clark here with you and along with me as always
• 2:21
  Speaker 8: is the uh ever handsome and now belly full Joe
• 2:26
  Speaker 8: BURRELLI what's up?
• 2:27
  Speaker 9: Joe?
• 2:28
  Speaker 10: Hey, what's up? Rob? And Uh, yes, I do take
• 2:32
  Speaker 10: full responsibility. It is my fault. I'm actually gonna blame
• 2:36
  Speaker 10: it on my girlfriend.
• 2:37
  Speaker 11: I'm gonna just.
• 2:38
  Speaker 10: Act like an intelligence and blame it on the other
• 2:41
  Speaker 10: agency and parents coming in for the weekend her mom's
• 2:44
  Speaker 10: seventieth and of course, Rob, guess what time she books
• 2:48
  Speaker 10: a reservation at a really nice restaurant in town on Friday.
• 2:52
  Speaker 8: Seven o'clock PM Eastern Standard time.
• 2:56
  Speaker 10: Yes, so, my conspiratorial mind goes, is this test type
• 3:01
  Speaker 10: of thing?
• 3:02
  Speaker 8: So, well, you're passing the test because you are dedicating
• 3:06
  Speaker 8: your time to them as you should. Yeah, you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 8: we can. We can do this whenever, and we are
• 3:11
  Speaker 8: doing it whenever. We are doing it in the.
• 3:13
  Speaker 10: Past or the Yeah, you said the future. I was like,
• 3:16
  Speaker 10: or maybe the past.
• 3:18
  Speaker 8: Well, they'll be seeing it in the future, but we're
• 3:19
  Speaker 8: doing it in the past, right.
• 3:21
  Speaker 10: But thank you for your flexibility, sir, and thank you
• 3:24
  Speaker 10: for everyone's flexibility. Maybe we'll pop in the chat and
• 3:28
  Speaker 10: say hi during the live broadcast.
• 3:31
  Speaker 8: See my back bends, Joe. I'm very flexible, all right.
• 3:38
  Speaker 8: So first off, and I promise you we will get
• 3:42
  Speaker 8: into New Orleans. I promise you. But we have along
• 3:47
  Speaker 8: with all of you, all probably have heard it by now,
• 3:49
  Speaker 8: but if you haven't, some very big news in the
• 3:52
  Speaker 8: JFK research community. So without further ado, Joe, let's show
• 4:00
  Speaker 8: of people what is going on.
• 4:03
  Speaker 10: Sure, and let's preface it by we are looking at
• 4:07
  Speaker 10: this from a strictly JFK research standpoint. This is not
• 4:11
  Speaker 10: a pro Trump, this is anti Trump, This is not
• 4:14
  Speaker 10: approject RFK JR. This is not uh anti RFK Junior.
• 4:20
  Speaker 8: If you're a JFK researcher, this should peak your interest.
• 4:25
  Speaker 10: Yes, So without further ado.
• 4:28
  Speaker 8: And maybe rethink your vote. But I think it goes
• 4:32
  Speaker 8: the other way. We ain't getting them. But here we go,
• 4:36
  Speaker 8: Here we go.
• 4:37
  Speaker 12: That was a new Independent Presidential Commission on assassination attemps,
• 4:49
  Speaker 12: and they will be casked with releasing all, well, if
• 4:51
  Speaker 12: the remaining documents pertaining.
• 4:54
  Speaker 13: To the assassination President John F.
• 4:57
  Speaker 10: Kennedy.
• 5:00
  Speaker 13: Yeah, they will also conduct a rigorous review of the attack.
• 5:14
  Speaker 9: Last month.
• 5:15
  Speaker 12: But I tell you I have never had more people
• 5:19
  Speaker 12: ask me police are released the documents the candidate the assassination.
• 5:26
  Speaker 11: And looking to do that.
• 5:29
  Speaker 8: Yeah, they're going to do it. They are going to
• 5:33
  Speaker 8: do it, and they enlisted the help of RFK Jr.
• 5:38
  Speaker 8: To do it, which is pretty insane. But there's more.
• 5:44
  Speaker 8: There is more, folks.
• 5:45
  Speaker 10: And Rob, I just want to say that I did
• 5:48
  Speaker 10: a few months ago with this topic came up. I
• 5:52
  Speaker 10: did actually call Trump out for saying he was going
• 5:55
  Speaker 10: to release them the first time, right during his first term.
• 5:59
  Speaker 10: He did not.
• 6:00
  Speaker 8: I called him out on that.
• 6:02
  Speaker 10: This was obviously before RFK Junior kind of came on
• 6:07
  Speaker 10: or whatever role he's gonna have. So it's not like
• 6:12
  Speaker 10: being one way or the other. I think it's just
• 6:14
  Speaker 10: if you're looking at this from a straight JFK research
• 6:18
  Speaker 10: document standpoint, I think it's pretty obvious which person would
• 6:23
  Speaker 10: release the files, which party.
• 6:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah, if there's any chance at all, and Trump gets elected.
• 6:30
  Speaker 8: I mean, this could all be a giant smoke show,
• 6:34
  Speaker 8: but the fact that he brought it up and brought
• 6:38
  Speaker 8: in rfk jor is telling. So let's hear some more
• 6:44
  Speaker 8: from rfk JR. I'm sorry for the dog shit audio
• 6:47
  Speaker 8: a minute ago.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: If you were asked would you run it? Would you
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: become CIA director?
• 6:53
  Speaker 14: If you were at I would never get yes, I would,
• 6:56
  Speaker 14: but I would never get Senate conform As you know,
• 7:01
  Speaker 14: the Intelligence Agency are protected by by very very powerful
• 7:07
  Speaker 14: committees in the Senate and in the House that are
• 7:10
  Speaker 14: already into the project. And the people who serve on
• 7:14
  Speaker 14: those committees are are are people who wouldn't you know,
• 7:19
  Speaker 14: they would not they would There's a safeguarding that directorship,
• 7:23
  Speaker 14: and I would be very very dangerous for those.
• 7:27
  Speaker 11: Those committees. I don't think that.
• 7:28
  Speaker 15: And yet in his you know, in your joint appearance
• 7:32
  Speaker 15: on Friday, President Trump introduced to you by saying that
• 7:36
  Speaker 15: he plans to, if elected, establish a commission to declassify
• 7:41
  Speaker 15: the remaining documents run your uncle's murder in nineteen sixty three. Yeah,
• 7:45
  Speaker 15: and I think everyone at this point knows the truth,
• 7:47
  Speaker 15: which is the CIA is implicated in that those documents
• 7:50
  Speaker 15: protect SA maybe among others.
• 7:52
  Speaker 14: Well, whether they do or not, it's odd that they've
• 7:55
  Speaker 14: not allowed them to be released, because what could possibly
• 7:58
  Speaker 14: be the export with in the sixty years after my
• 8:00
  Speaker 14: uncle's death, only the sixty five years, oh, the sixty
• 8:03
  Speaker 14: two years after his death, and there's none of the
• 8:07
  Speaker 14: people who were implicated in that crime are alive now
• 8:12
  Speaker 14: and the last ones have died off in the last
• 8:14
  Speaker 14: year or two. And so it clearly is and to
• 8:20
  Speaker 14: protect the institution, yes, and that's wrong. It is wrong
• 8:24
  Speaker 14: and is wrong for a Democrats, wrong for republic.
• 8:27
  Speaker 15: It's just interesting though that a bipartisan list of presidents
• 8:31
  Speaker 15: low these these six decades have kept those files classified.
• 8:35
  Speaker 14: Well, you and I have both. I was astonished that
• 8:37
  Speaker 14: Trump didn't declassify him because he promised.
• 8:41
  Speaker 11: To during the campaign. That was Mike Pompeo who did that.
• 8:43
  Speaker 14: Yeah, and that and that I talked to President Trump
• 8:46
  Speaker 14: for the first time about that this week and what
• 8:48
  Speaker 14: he's saying. He said that, he said that Mike Pompeo
• 8:54
  Speaker 14: begged him too.
• 8:56
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 8:57
  Speaker 11: And I don't think I'm telling tales out of school here.
• 9:00
  Speaker 11: It's all the same thing to you.
• 9:03
  Speaker 14: But he said Mike Pump called him and said this
• 9:06
  Speaker 14: wouldn't be a catastrophe to release.
• 9:08
  Speaker 11: You need to not do it. And you know, I.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Want to say again, I think Mike Pumpe is a criminal.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: So that's my view.
• 9:15
  Speaker 15: He's threaten to assume me for saying that, but I
• 9:17
  Speaker 15: hope he will because it's true.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: But that that kind of tells the whole story right there, right, So.
• 9:25
  Speaker 8: There you have it, folks, the big news. And I think, uh,
• 9:31
  Speaker 8: you know, RFK Jr. I don't think he would ever
• 9:35
  Speaker 8: get appointed to be CI director, But god damn would
• 9:40
  Speaker 8: that be funny.
• 9:42
  Speaker 10: That would be some poetic justice.
• 9:45
  Speaker 8: Yes, it would, and everything would fall out of that place,
• 9:49
  Speaker 8: Oh my god.
• 9:51
  Speaker 10: And rob one thing that just because I don't want to,
• 9:55
  Speaker 10: you know, not call that out on this because I've
• 9:59
  Speaker 10: heard them talk heer, RFK Junior and other people say
• 10:02
  Speaker 10: this that there's no one alive that has been implicated,
• 10:07
  Speaker 10: right do they not know that Marino was under suspicion
• 10:12
  Speaker 10: for a long time, especially after the Walker letter was found.
• 10:15
  Speaker 10: Buell Wesley Frasier, as you well know, was threatened as
• 10:19
  Speaker 10: being an accomplice. Accomplice and Ruth Payne is still alive
• 10:23
  Speaker 10: in her nineties. Yeah, so I hate when they say this, right,
• 10:28
  Speaker 10: I'm not a touchar apologist. I'm just being objective here.
• 10:32
  Speaker 10: There are still a few people.
• 10:35
  Speaker 8: To CIA personnel Joe and not like regular regular Joe's
• 10:40
  Speaker 8: if you will.
• 10:41
  Speaker 10: Yeah, that that is true. That is true.
• 10:44
  Speaker 8: But again, who in the last year or two from
• 10:48
  Speaker 8: the CIA was still alive, you know, from from that
• 10:54
  Speaker 8: far back. I mean, my god, they must have been
• 10:56
  Speaker 8: well that I guess. You know, it's been sixty two years.
• 11:01
  Speaker 8: If they were twenty five, they would have been like
• 11:03
  Speaker 8: eighty seven. Of course, somebody could live to be ninety five.
• 11:08
  Speaker 10: There were a couple, but I don't think they were
• 11:10
  Speaker 10: major major.
• 11:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know who's referring to there, to be
• 11:15
  Speaker 8: honest with you. But you know, if if Trump gets
• 11:20
  Speaker 8: elected and he follows through on his word to do
• 11:23
  Speaker 8: what he said he's going to do, that would be
• 11:26
  Speaker 8: amazing to finally get all these files released and we
• 11:30
  Speaker 8: can see what they've been hiding all these years, for sure.
• 11:33
  Speaker 8: So that's big news, big news, folks, and of course
• 11:37
  Speaker 8: we'll stay on top of it, for sure.
• 11:40
  Speaker 10: But now the year since any files have been released
• 11:43
  Speaker 10: on the neuro website.
• 11:44
  Speaker 8: Which yeah often yeah, and real quick, before we get
• 11:49
  Speaker 8: into New Orleans. I just wanted to follow up a
• 11:53
  Speaker 8: little bit about the Trump assassination attempt and what Joe
• 11:58
  Speaker 8: has been able to glean because there has been some
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: news some of the Secret Service agents involved that day
• 12:05
  Speaker 8: have been suspended. Depending on internal investigation, they're likely to
• 12:09
  Speaker 8: be fired and some other things. So Joe ghosta sure.
• 12:17
  Speaker 10: Well, as you remember, Rob, we did a kind of
• 12:22
  Speaker 10: emergency show that was supposed to become a short that
• 12:25
  Speaker 10: maybe wasn't because that's what we do. On the Trump
• 12:28
  Speaker 10: assassination attempt. It was I believe Tuesday night or no,
• 12:35
  Speaker 10: it was Monday night and it happened on a Saturday, right,
• 12:37
  Speaker 10: It was forty eight hours after and very limited information
• 12:42
  Speaker 10: was out then, and we just kind of wanted to
• 12:45
  Speaker 10: follow up. I know, we talked a little with Carmine
• 12:49
  Speaker 10: and the Weaker second week after that about it, and
• 12:52
  Speaker 10: he had some really great things on that, and.
• 12:56
  Speaker 8: More information keeps spilling out.
• 12:59
  Speaker 10: So we just want to give a quick update.
• 13:00
  Speaker 8: I'm gonna keep more answers to questions.
• 13:06
  Speaker 10: Yeah, so this is from a Fox News article and
• 13:10
  Speaker 10: there was a few BBC I thought this was the
• 13:12
  Speaker 10: most interesting to read. At least five members of the
• 13:16
  Speaker 10: US Secret Service have been placed on administrative leave following
• 13:19
  Speaker 10: the July thirteenth assassination attempt against former President Donald Trump
• 13:23
  Speaker 10: in Butler, Pennsylvania. One member of Trump's personal protective team
• 13:29
  Speaker 10: that's someone on the ground with him, and four members
• 13:33
  Speaker 10: of the Secret Service Pittsburgh Field office, including the special
• 13:37
  Speaker 10: Agent in charge, have been sidelined nearly six weeks after
• 13:42
  Speaker 10: the incident. The five are still employed, but are teleworking,
• 13:47
  Speaker 10: working from home, and are no longer allowed in the field.
• 13:50
  Speaker 10: They cannot do any investigative work. The news comes after
• 13:56
  Speaker 10: the Secret Service concluded internal interviews to understand how Thomas
• 14:00
  Speaker 10: Matthew Crooks was able to fire several shots from the
• 14:03
  Speaker 10: AhR building in Butler, Pennsylvania. The Secret Service was not
• 14:06
  Speaker 10: able to conduct the interviews right away because the FBI
• 14:10
  Speaker 10: was interviewing them for a separate criminal investigation. According to
• 14:15
  Speaker 10: a source, Senator Joss Holly from Missouri on Friday revealed
• 14:21
  Speaker 10: that a Secret Service whistleblower has come forward to claim
• 14:25
  Speaker 10: that the officials at the Secret Service headquarters, I guess
• 14:29
  Speaker 10: he's made DC there encouraged agents in charge of the
• 14:33
  Speaker 10: rally not to request any extra security assets in their
• 14:37
  Speaker 10: formal planning request. We know bullet grazed the right ear
• 14:44
  Speaker 10: and firefighter record competitor was struck in to others. The
• 14:51
  Speaker 10: former Secret Service director Kimberly Heedel resigned after her disastrous
• 14:58
  Speaker 10: showing in front of cong And I listened to hours
• 15:02
  Speaker 10: and hours of that and she was the most frustrating
• 15:04
  Speaker 10: person ever to look listen to. But so that's it.
• 15:09
  Speaker 10: It's I'm gonna leave that there. It's kind of good
• 15:13
  Speaker 10: that at least someone's being held accountable.
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: Now I have my doubts.
• 15:17
  Speaker 10: Are they going to be like reinstated in a couple
• 15:18
  Speaker 10: of months and everyone's going to forget about it? Probably, right,
• 15:22
  Speaker 10: but especially if you're talking specially in charge. But Rob,
• 15:26
  Speaker 10: if you remember, we were talking about how initially how
• 15:31
  Speaker 10: it was probably a failure on the leadership end or
• 15:36
  Speaker 10: advanced teams that set the perimeter that allegedly denied them
• 15:42
  Speaker 10: of Secret Service assets, and that seems to be true.
• 15:49
  Speaker 8: Yeah, And the building in question was under the watch
• 15:51
  Speaker 8: of the local law enforcement agencies and they really dropped
• 15:57
  Speaker 8: the ball on that one. And of course our communication
• 16:00
  Speaker 8: should break down, not being on the same channels, not
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: having clear instructions until these shots ring out and speaking
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: of the shots. Joe, I believe you have a shot analysis.
• 16:12
  Speaker 10: Yeah. So I've been, you know, watching a lot of
• 16:17
  Speaker 10: YouTube videos on people I really trust, like really trust
• 16:21
  Speaker 10: in terms of the shot sequence.
• 16:23
  Speaker 16: And.
• 16:26
  Speaker 10: We thought there were like six or to eight shots initially,
• 16:30
  Speaker 10: but there happened to be ten, ten, ten shots, ten
• 16:35
  Speaker 10: shots total. And we're gonna go through this of the
• 16:39
  Speaker 10: clip again, but I'll I'll preface it. There were eight
• 16:44
  Speaker 10: shots fired by crooks. Three in the first burst. You're
• 16:50
  Speaker 10: gonna hear five on this second burst. Then you're gonna
• 16:54
  Speaker 10: hear a low thump, which was actually so. There were
• 16:58
  Speaker 10: three sniper teams providing Overwatch that day. They were two
• 17:03
  Speaker 10: Secret Service Hercules sniper teams and one Butler County State
• 17:10
  Speaker 10: of Pennsylvania sniper team. And the sniper team from Butler
• 17:15
  Speaker 10: or whatever county in Pennsylvania actually got the shot off
• 17:21
  Speaker 10: the ninth shot off after Thomas Kruks's eighth and hit
• 17:24
  Speaker 10: his gun, resulting in some like fragments like going into
• 17:29
  Speaker 10: his face and him going back down, and then about
• 17:35
  Speaker 10: ten seconds later he gets back up Crooks and that's
• 17:40
  Speaker 10: when the Secret Sniper Hercules team that was not kind
• 17:44
  Speaker 10: of possibly instructed by the Tree did the one fatal
• 17:49
  Speaker 10: shot and the head the kill shot, and let me
• 17:55
  Speaker 10: do this right now and bring it up and we
• 17:58
  Speaker 10: will go through it. And we went through forty eight
• 18:00
  Speaker 10: hours in. But we want to follow up because truth matters,
• 18:08
  Speaker 10: all right, what happened three right, you're gonna hear the
• 18:16
  Speaker 10: next five in the five shots in the counter sniper
• 18:25
  Speaker 10: shot which we couldn't hear because it wasn't next to
• 18:27
  Speaker 10: the microphone as well. Pop, that's the Secret Service kill
• 18:42
  Speaker 10: shot that went through the head and neck of Thomas Crooks.
• 18:47
  Speaker 10: So it could have been a lot worse if that
• 18:51
  Speaker 10: Butler sniper, the Pennsylvania County sniper didn't at least deter
• 18:57
  Speaker 10: him in some way by returning fire and hitting his gun,
• 19:02
  Speaker 10: possibly disabling it. We don't know. The FBI has it,
• 19:05
  Speaker 10: so we'll never find out now. But and then he
• 19:09
  Speaker 10: pops back up and Secret Service the Hercules team had
• 19:14
  Speaker 10: then focused in on him.
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: And Pop Hercules Hercules, thank you, Joe, that wonderful shot. Breakdown.
• 19:25
  Speaker 10: Well, one more thing, Rob, Yes, the reason the Secret
• 19:29
  Speaker 10: Service snipers remember and when our first when we were
• 19:33
  Speaker 10: talking about initially we said, I think there was a
• 19:35
  Speaker 10: breakdown in communication. Well, the local law enforcement and the
• 19:40
  Speaker 10: state law enforcement had a meeting where they were talking
• 19:44
  Speaker 10: about the different radio frequencies they were going to be on,
• 19:48
  Speaker 10: and the Secret Service did not show up to that meeting.
• 19:51
  Speaker 10: They did not pick up the walkie talkies to get
• 19:55
  Speaker 10: on the same frequency as a local and state law enforcement.
• 19:59
  Speaker 10: So when you you see all the local and state
• 20:01
  Speaker 10: eyes kind of circling around the HR building before, right,
• 20:06
  Speaker 10: and then like the minute a little more that before
• 20:09
  Speaker 10: the shots were fired, they didn't know because they didn't
• 20:13
  Speaker 10: have comms with the local and state eyes. And I
• 20:16
  Speaker 10: don't know if that's out of complete negligence or arrogance
• 20:22
  Speaker 10: or conspiracy. I mean, you could kind of pick whatever
• 20:25
  Speaker 10: one you want, but it's it's really interesting and one
• 20:32
  Speaker 10: thing so I want to fall up on. We talked
• 20:34
  Speaker 10: about the ladder. We had saw a picture of the ladder.
• 20:37
  Speaker 10: There were like, how the hell did this kid get
• 20:39
  Speaker 10: the ladder near the building?
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: Right?
• 20:41
  Speaker 10: Well, he actually didn't. That picture was for a few
• 20:44
  Speaker 10: minutes after the police got up onto the roof, right,
• 20:47
  Speaker 10: so maybe ten fifteen minutes after the shooting whatever. And
• 20:51
  Speaker 10: he although he had a ladder receipt in his pocket
• 20:54
  Speaker 10: from home depot or wherever, he didn't bring a ladder.
• 20:56
  Speaker 10: That was the Secret Service or whatever state and local
• 21:01
  Speaker 10: they brought in whatever they could find. One thing that
• 21:05
  Speaker 10: I still want to know is we heard a lot
• 21:06
  Speaker 10: about explosive devices, right he had bombs in his car
• 21:10
  Speaker 10: with a remote detonator. Nothing about that whatsoever. And of
• 21:17
  Speaker 10: course you have the FBI washing off the roof a
• 21:21
  Speaker 10: couple of days after, which is pretty suss. And I
• 21:25
  Speaker 10: just thought i'd update you on those points because we
• 21:27
  Speaker 10: want to follow up and it's intriguing yet frustrating. I'm
• 21:33
  Speaker 10: not sure we're going to know a ton more than
• 21:35
  Speaker 10: what i'd kind of just explained. There are a lot
• 21:38
  Speaker 10: of good videos on YouTube and creators that are doing
• 21:41
  Speaker 10: great analysis on this, but I just wanted to follow.
• 21:44
  Speaker 8: Up on that unless we get that commission created by
• 21:46
  Speaker 8: Trump headed by RFK Jr. To investigate the assassination attempt.
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: So we will stay on top of it and keep
• 21:53
  Speaker 8: you posted for sure. So from Butler, Pennsylvania, we go
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: to New Orleans.
• 22:00
  Speaker 10: New Orleans, mister Gasan.
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: We go to New Orleans, Joe.
• 22:03
  Speaker 17: But uh, we're going back in time, folks, going.
• 22:14
  Speaker 11: Back in time.
• 22:16
  Speaker 8: So this, folks, is the infamous five forty four Camp
• 22:22
  Speaker 8: Street and on one side, uh Mancuso's restaurant on the
• 22:28
  Speaker 8: corner and seven point thirty one Lafayette on the other side.
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: And as you can see stamped there on on one
• 22:37
  Speaker 8: of Lee Harvey Oswald's handouts, this was the office of
• 22:42
  Speaker 8: private investigator Guy Banister and associates back in nineteen sixty three.
• 22:48
  Speaker 8: And uh, I believe he was at seven thirty one
• 22:53
  Speaker 8: Lafayette and uh five forty four Camp Street is you know,
• 22:58
  Speaker 8: right around the corner same bill. Now, now there was
• 23:03
  Speaker 8: a lot, a lot, a lot a lot Joe witnesses
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: who put Lee Harvey Oswald inside of Guy Banister's office
• 23:15
  Speaker 8: and talking to Guy Banister. Okay, Now, back at that time,
• 23:22
  Speaker 8: Guy Banister was into a lot of shady things. He
• 23:28
  Speaker 8: was also very anti Castro, anti communist. He was collecting
• 23:36
  Speaker 8: files on people and everybody knows, you know, Guy Banister's
• 23:41
  Speaker 8: former FBI big wheel in the FBI, did a lot
• 23:45
  Speaker 8: of cool stuff there and of course comes down to
• 23:50
  Speaker 8: New Orleans and uh, you know, to help out the
• 23:52
  Speaker 8: New Orleans Police Department there and he uh gets into
• 23:56
  Speaker 8: a little trouble with a handgun and and that's the
• 24:01
  Speaker 8: end of his little career there except for you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 8: going into business as a private investigator, and of course
• 24:09
  Speaker 8: shortly thereafter, in June of nineteen sixty four, he will
• 24:12
  Speaker 8: be dead already. So the reason I'm showing you this
• 24:18
  Speaker 8: has become because I came across something, Joe, and it's
• 24:24
  Speaker 8: very interesting in the Garrison files if you see this
• 24:31
  Speaker 8: business card Martin, Newborough and Dalzel private investigators, and apparently
• 24:43
  Speaker 8: this is the business card of these three guys from
• 24:46
  Speaker 8: nineteen sixty sixty one sixty two using Banister's office telephone numbers. Okay,
• 24:53
  Speaker 8: so they're working out of they have a they're running
• 24:56
  Speaker 8: a business out of Guy Banister's office and likely doing
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: business for Guy Banister. And the Martin here is of
• 25:06
  Speaker 8: course Jack Martin, who was infamously pistol whipped on the
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: evening of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. Newborough is
• 25:15
  Speaker 8: of course Joseph Newborough, the fat man who we're going
• 25:19
  Speaker 8: to see here in a little bit, and of course
• 25:20
  Speaker 8: Dalzel is William Dalzel alleged cia asset among other things.
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: So first off, Joe, I want to show you something
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: that I hadn't never seen before, okay, and this is
• 25:40
  Speaker 8: I wish I could make a bigger This is the
• 25:43
  Speaker 8: New Orleans Police Department Report of Offense against Persons, okay,
• 25:53
  Speaker 8: and it is dated eleven, twenty two sixty three. The
• 25:56
  Speaker 8: victim's name is Jack Martin.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: And.
• 26:04
  Speaker 8: It's basically saying that pistol whipped by an unknown making
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: model revolver.
• 26:11
  Speaker 10: Be not with pistol.
• 26:15
  Speaker 8: Something.
• 26:16
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 26:17
  Speaker 8: Was victim sober and it says had been drinking and
• 26:24
  Speaker 8: he was marked off as sudden anger. Okay. Uh said
• 26:31
  Speaker 8: he was taken to Charity Hospital beaten on head with
• 26:35
  Speaker 8: pistol homo negative whatever that means. I guess it wasn't gay.
• 26:44
  Speaker 10: That's interesting.
• 26:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah. So this was part one of the of the report.
• 26:53
  Speaker 8: And this is part two of the report.
• 26:56
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 26:57
  Speaker 8: Listen, Lieutenant Francis Martello respectfully reports at about six forty
• 27:04
  Speaker 8: five pm on Friday, November twenty second, of having received
• 27:07
  Speaker 8: a radio signal number fifty eight, it was learned from
• 27:14
  Speaker 8: the radio operator the department somebody had received a telephone
• 27:19
  Speaker 8: call that Jack Martin, aged forty seven, residing at one
• 27:25
  Speaker 8: three one one North Pryor Street, was pistol whipped by
• 27:28
  Speaker 8: Guy Banister. And it goes on to tell a little bit.
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: I'm not going to read the whole thing here, but
• 27:35
  Speaker 8: to basically wrap this up. He was met at the
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: hospital by the police, taken down to the headquarters, and
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: Jack Martin declined. He declined to press charges on Guy Banister,
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: he says. Jack Martin was transported to the hospital, a
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: Baptist hospital in patrol car number eleven. In the hospital,
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: he was photographed. I'd like to see those photographs, technician
• 28:09
  Speaker 8: Claire Olsen. Upon examining Martin's head, he had three small
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: lacerations on the forehead and one laceration on the rear
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: of his head. Jack, excuse me. Jack Martin was asked
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: again if he wished to press charges, and he stated
• 28:24
  Speaker 8: he did not, as Banister was like a father to him,
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: and then he had worked for him, and as far
• 28:29
  Speaker 8: as he was concerned, it was nothing to get irritated about. However,
• 28:35
  Speaker 8: he could not understand why Banister hit him with his gun.
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: Martin then stated, no, I do not wish to press
• 28:44
  Speaker 8: charges at this time. He was asked what did he
• 28:46
  Speaker 8: mean by this, and he replied that he didn't want
• 28:49
  Speaker 8: to hurt Banister, but did not want to press charges
• 28:53
  Speaker 8: at this time. So basically he even interviewed Delphine Roberts,
• 29:01
  Speaker 8: who was interviewed, and she stated that she would not
• 29:06
  Speaker 8: make any comment on the advice of mister Banister's attorney,
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: which is funny because Guy Banister basically said the same thing.
• 29:17
  Speaker 8: They went to talk to Guy Banister and he says
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: concerning the complaint of Jack Martin, and mister Banister stated
• 29:24
  Speaker 8: that he would not comment about this matter upon the
• 29:26
  Speaker 8: advice of his attorney due to the victim, Jack Martin,
• 29:30
  Speaker 8: not wishing to press any charges against mister Banister. He
• 29:33
  Speaker 8: was not arrested. However, the office of the Honorable District
• 29:37
  Speaker 8: Attorney is to be consulted in this matter, respectfully, Lieutenant
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: Francis Martello. So this is very interesting. I'd never seen
• 29:48
  Speaker 8: this actual New Orleans police report before, and of course
• 29:53
  Speaker 8: it doesn't go into any specifics about the reason for
• 30:02
  Speaker 8: the argument. Okay, it was basically he'd accused, and then
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: this police report basically Banister had accused, allegedly Martin of
• 30:12
  Speaker 8: making long distance telephone calls from his office. Martin's response was,
• 30:18
  Speaker 8: why I work for a Guy Banister sometimes and if
• 30:22
  Speaker 8: I'm making long distance calls from his office, then that's
• 30:25
  Speaker 8: what I'm supposed to do. But actually I haven't done
• 30:27
  Speaker 8: it for over a year, made any long distance calls
• 30:30
  Speaker 8: out of his office, so he didn't know what Banister
• 30:33
  Speaker 8: was so upset about. And of course, you know, it's
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: alleged that other things were said concerning the Kennedy assassination
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: and that's what set Banister off, But we just don't
• 30:46
  Speaker 8: know for sure.
• 30:47
  Speaker 18: Now we know the JFK movie in regards to that
• 30:56
  Speaker 18: might not be the most accurate in terms of their
• 31:01
  Speaker 18: actual conversation or reason why this alternation.
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: Well, you know, I mean the other witness, Delphine Roberts,
• 31:10
  Speaker 8: was interviewed by Anthony Summers in like the late seventies,
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: and I believe the HSCA talked to Delphine Roberts as well,
• 31:18
  Speaker 8: you know, and and she basically said the same thing.
• 31:20
  Speaker 8: You know, that Oswald was in Banister's office, uh, you know,
• 31:26
  Speaker 8: frequently in the summer sixty three, and that basically that
• 31:32
  Speaker 8: the argument was over the Kennedy assassination and some files.
• 31:37
  Speaker 8: But how reliable is she, you know, who knows. But
• 31:43
  Speaker 8: let's take a look at the second name on that
• 31:47
  Speaker 8: business card, who was Joe Newborough, the fat Man, And
• 31:53
  Speaker 8: we're going to see what he had to say about
• 31:54
  Speaker 8: what was going on in Banish's office. Okay, check this out.
• 32:09
  Speaker 10: Seven three two walk market.
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: The guy Banister, the private detective. Was he collecting intelligence?
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: Yes, in a number of areas, Guy Banished, a j
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: collected intelligence. He worked for various groups, public and private.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: Which public ones.
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: I don't know other than it.
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: Sometimes we did work for the UH Office of Naval Intelligence.
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: How do you know that?
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: I was acquainted with Guy Johnson, who was the commander
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: of the Office of Naval Intelligence Reserve component.
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: Here we borrowed things from him.
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: We wouldn't have been able to do that unless we
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: were also working for him. What things UH surveillance ecquis,
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: infrared listening devices, cameras, miniaturized television sets, things like that.
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: Did mister Banister work for the FBI?
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: He retired a Special Agent in charge of the Chicago
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: office from the FBI around nineteen fifty five to assume
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: duties as the deputy Superintendent of police, with the idea
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: that it within six months he would replace the superintendent.
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: It was Banister's intention to write a book on how
• 33:33
  Speaker 7: to clean up the New Orleans Police Department, so it
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: could be used as a textbook throughout the country.
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: What I meant was, did Guide Banister associates work for
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: the FBI?
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: As a matter of practice, the FBI doesn't hire such groups.
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: It's in opposition to federal law to hire the government
• 33:58
  Speaker 7: to hire a detective agency of the type and style
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: of UH Pinkerton or something like that.
• 34:06
  Speaker 9: That's called the Pinkerton Act.
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: So if anything was done for the FBI was done
• 34:10
  Speaker 7: very informally.
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: Banister had ten thirteen files around the office, didn't he?
• 34:17
  Speaker 9: Yes? How did they?
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: Sorry, I'll ask you that question, cause UH, what kind
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: of files did Banister to have around that office?
• 34:25
  Speaker 9: Well?
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: Among his files were probably UH, the complete file of
• 34:29
  Speaker 7: every known communists in the United States about twenty eight thousand.
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: He also kept political files on the semior side of
• 34:37
  Speaker 7: U locals and state political officials, and perhaps some national
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: figures too.
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: DIDNI also have files which are labeled ten thirteen files?
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: The ten thirteen files were essentially the UH subversive files
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: UH involving individuals.
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: But on ten thirteen files FBI files?
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: You mean did he get ay? Did he get files
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: from the FBI? The answer is probably not. Did he
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: keep him at home when he was the agent in charge?
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: He may have they may have had them, but not officially.
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: Just make that a statement if he had them.
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: No, he did not have any official FBI files. Nobody
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: would have them but the bureau itself.
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: But he could have had official files unofficially.
• 35:28
  Speaker 7: Yes, unofficially he could have had in possession files.
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: And isn't ten thirteen an FBI form of categor categorization?
• 35:36
  Speaker 9: Yes, it is.
• 35:39
  Speaker 11: Just cut that one.
• 35:51
  Speaker 9: See seven three three marker.
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: What what what kind of files did balance to have?
• 36:00
  Speaker 10: What were they called?
• 36:02
  Speaker 9: Well, there was the UH.
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: Ten thirteen files, which is an FBI type of D
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: designation for communists, attributions of ch different people holding public office.
• 36:15
  Speaker 9: And they could extend into other things too. The FBI files, Well, it's.
• 36:20
  Speaker 7: An FBI designation. Uh Were they actually FBI files?
• 36:24
  Speaker 9: The answer was no.
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: He did not directly get them from the FBI, but
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: he could have acquired them.
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: Why was the private detective collecting so many files on communists?
• 36:38
  Speaker 9: Well, of course he was.
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: His attitude was bent in anti communism, which few people
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: in the United States were not anti communists at that time,
• 36:51
  Speaker 7: and they were considered to be a general threat to
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: the country.
• 36:55
  Speaker 9: As a whole.
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: How many files did he have?
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: He had the files of twenty eight thousand known communists
• 37:01
  Speaker 7: in the United.
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: States who paid him to collect that.
• 37:05
  Speaker 7: I presume that it was UH both public and private
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: organizations at plan paiding you presuming of well, I know
• 37:16
  Speaker 7: that he did not have the funding himself to do it,
• 37:20
  Speaker 7: and that UH there was private funding from UH.
• 37:24
  Speaker 9: One was hl Hunt local.
• 37:28
  Speaker 7: Private funding came from UH Judge Leander Perez.
• 37:32
  Speaker 9: UH. There was also Bufford H. J.
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: Balter locally, and there was of course UH probably government
• 37:40
  Speaker 7: agencies that UH used Banister personally because they could not
• 37:45
  Speaker 7: contract with the detective Agency officially because of what is
• 37:50
  Speaker 7: called the Pinkerton Act.
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: Was Lee Hobby Elswold in those files?
• 37:55
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: Color walking marker to your knowledge, did Guy Bannister have
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: any association with Cuban paramilitaries?
• 38:08
  Speaker 9: Yes?
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: He did, uh he UH can you make an a statement shoe.
• 38:11
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 38:11
  Speaker 7: He had a connection with the Cuban military group that
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: was formed as primarily as a magnet to attract subversies. Now,
• 38:21
  Speaker 7: whether or not they really intended to do anything, I
• 38:24
  Speaker 7: don't miss UH. One time Banister asked me if I
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: could remember how to feel script a a s light
• 38:31
  Speaker 7: machine gun. I said yes, and he uh suggested that
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: we go across the lake to u a training place
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: uh near Slide del Louisiana, about thirty five miles from here. UH,
• 38:43
  Speaker 7: and I feel scripped the machine gun as a demonstration
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: for the uh so.
• 38:49
  Speaker 9: Called trainees Cubbons. Oh, yes, they were Cubans. Cut could
• 38:58
  Speaker 9: wall marker.
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: When you demonstrated the machine gun to those Cubans? Who
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: else did you see that?
• 39:05
  Speaker 9: Just Cubans? Oh? No, there were uh p re.
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: I saw people there that had recently been discharged from
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: the paratroopers, the Marine Corps.
• 39:14
  Speaker 9: And probably other people of that.
• 39:16
  Speaker 16: Uh.
• 39:17
  Speaker 9: I really couldn't tell you who they were. What were they?
• 39:20
  Speaker 7: They were not they were Americans, not necessarily of Cuban ancestry.
• 39:24
  Speaker 9: And what were they doing there? They were training to
• 39:27
  Speaker 9: ostensibly to invade Cuba.
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: Did you see David Ferry? I don't have any knowledge
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: of that.
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: I saw Ferry all the time, but I never saw
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: him at this particular training site.
• 39:38
  Speaker 9: But I understand that he was there frequently.
• 39:41
  Speaker 10: Can you back of a statement show.
• 39:44
  Speaker 9: In what direction?
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: Well, let me ask, did David Ferry have an involvement
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: with Cuban parament chase?
• 39:50
  Speaker 7: Yes, David Ferry had a daily involvement with the Cubans
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: as a whole. He met with them at a place
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: U on Bienville Street, almost not lightly.
• 40:01
  Speaker 9: I suspect most.
• 40:03
  Speaker 7: People know that he did fly into the Bay of
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: Pigs and a B twenty five.
• 40:09
  Speaker 9: He made flights to Cuba.
• 40:11
  Speaker 7: He bragged about it before and after the Bay of Pigs.
• 40:17
  Speaker 7: At one time he went to Guantanamo Bay and landed
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: on the airstrip there and came back with some members
• 40:25
  Speaker 7: of the Cuban's family that were local.
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: Rescued them.
• 40:32
  Speaker 7: Yes, as a matter of fact, there was probably a
• 40:35
  Speaker 7: dozen times he was the conduit for which people were
• 40:38
  Speaker 7: rescued from Cuba.
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: When he flew the Cuba, was he dropping bombs?
• 40:45
  Speaker 7: I don't know whether he was dropping bombs or bringing
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: in supplies or what.
• 40:51
  Speaker 9: However, it was not a supply plane. It was a bomber.
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: When did he have act? Was he involved in Cuban
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: paramilitaries here in America?
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: He was involved at least with the group in sly Dell,
• 41:07
  Speaker 7: which was a paramilitary group.
• 41:11
  Speaker 9: Using the word para is a misnoma. They were military.
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: What was he doing with them?
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: I don't know exactly what his where he fit into
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: their scheme of things.
• 41:24
  Speaker 9: But he was in some.
• 41:25
  Speaker 7: Leadership capacity of the local Cuban group that was going
• 41:31
  Speaker 7: to invade Cuba.
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: He said he saw them every night. What was he
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: doing with them every night?
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: He chit chatted with him every night, talking about invasion
• 41:43
  Speaker 7: of Cuba, assassinating Castro, anything that would come to the mind.
• 41:47
  Speaker 9: I mean, all he was doing was really keeping his hands.
• 41:50
  Speaker 8: On so Joe, yep, and there that's your first time
• 41:58
  Speaker 8: seeing that, as it is likely a lot of other
• 42:03
  Speaker 8: people here. And you know, I know it was nine minutes,
• 42:06
  Speaker 8: almost ten minutes long, but I think it's worthy of
• 42:09
  Speaker 8: of a listen and a look for everything that this guy,
• 42:14
  Speaker 8: because he was around Banister's office back in the time
• 42:17
  Speaker 8: when all this was going on. He knew these people.
• 42:20
  Speaker 8: He knew Guy Banister, he knew Jack Martin, he knew
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: David Ferry. You know, he's even talking about things about
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: David Ferry that were written in that book, you know,
• 42:33
  Speaker 8: where we thought it was a fantastic tale about David
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: Ferry flying a plane down in the Cuban rescuing somebody
• 42:39
  Speaker 8: and getting shot at and getting getting out of there.
• 42:43
  Speaker 8: It turns out we're probably true or at least that's
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: what he heard from David Ferry and the things going
• 42:52
  Speaker 8: on at Lake Pontre train with these training camps.
• 42:56
  Speaker 10: You know, I was going to ask if he was
• 42:58
  Speaker 10: referring to that specifically.
• 43:00
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, So you know, this stuff is wild. And
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: of course you know Banister and you heard the name
• 43:09
  Speaker 8: that he was funded by Joe H. L. Hunt Leander
• 43:12
  Speaker 8: Perez okay, a right wing, extreme right wing anti segregationists,
• 43:20
  Speaker 8: anti communist people, you know, and he was collecting files
• 43:26
  Speaker 8: on communists and he had a lot of them and
• 43:30
  Speaker 8: a lot of them, and how did he get him
• 43:33
  Speaker 8: we don't know.
• 43:33
  Speaker 10: Twenty eight thousand.
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so if he's so anti communist, what in the
• 43:40
  Speaker 8: heck is Oswald doing around this guy's office in the
• 43:42
  Speaker 8: summer of nineteen sixty three, And of course there was
• 43:45
  Speaker 8: an alleged conversation between I forget who it was, it
• 43:50
  Speaker 8: might have been Delphine Roberts asked him about what this
• 43:53
  Speaker 8: guy or Oswald had been seen handing out these leaflets
• 43:56
  Speaker 8: right pro castro, and Banister allegedly told somebody, hey, don't
• 44:01
  Speaker 8: worry about him, he's with us, okay, which would indicate
• 44:05
  Speaker 8: that possibly this whole fair play for Cuba Committee New
• 44:10
  Speaker 8: Orleans chapter that Oswald is putting together is just a
• 44:14
  Speaker 8: ploy to attract communists and pro Castro supporters so that
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: Banish can put him in these files, which makes sense. Okay.
• 44:30
  Speaker 8: Now we go from Newborough Joe to another person who
• 44:36
  Speaker 8: was around Banister's office in the summer of nineteen sixty
• 44:39
  Speaker 8: three by the name of David Lewis Okay.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: And.
• 44:49
  Speaker 8: He was of course interviewed by Garrison and his people,
• 44:52
  Speaker 8: and in his interview he's asked about Oswald in Banister's
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: own office and other things that were seeing. He states.
• 45:05
  Speaker 8: On this occasion, Oswald was dressed in dark slacks, light
• 45:09
  Speaker 8: blue sports shirt, short sleeves. Carlos, whose last name I
• 45:14
  Speaker 8: don't know, is a well dressed man, black hair, black eyes.
• 45:22
  Speaker 8: Of course he meant brown, approximately five to eleven, very
• 45:26
  Speaker 8: neat would assumed he was a businessman, okay. Approximate age
• 45:37
  Speaker 8: late twenties or early thirties. He was wearing a lightweight
• 45:40
  Speaker 8: suit either black or dark blue, a mustache otherwise clean shaven,
• 45:46
  Speaker 8: had an accent but was not as pronounced as Arkasha's accent.
• 45:52
  Speaker 8: Appeared to be highly educated and might be considered as
• 45:55
  Speaker 8: a high class Spaniard, as was Arkasha. Now Joe, who
• 46:02
  Speaker 8: do we know? Okay, who do we know named Carlos?
• 46:07
  Speaker 8: Who was a businessman, who was well dressed, who had
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: an accent, who had a mustache?
• 46:14
  Speaker 11: Uh, who do we know?
• 46:18
  Speaker 9: Uh?
• 46:18
  Speaker 10: That would probably be mister Carlos Brigne.
• 46:23
  Speaker 8: Yes, I would, I would concur with that analysis.
• 46:29
  Speaker 10: Although uh, Carlos Kiroga is another name that popped into
• 46:37
  Speaker 10: my mind when you said Carlos.
• 46:40
  Speaker 8: Yes, Karuga didn't have a mustache, but did I don't
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: know know. Now, Akasia Smith had an office okay, in
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: the balter building on the second floor. Was a student
• 46:57
  Speaker 8: at Antiochka r To nineteen sixty three. I believe they
• 47:02
  Speaker 8: left the building in sixty two. Sergey or Acasia Smith
• 47:07
  Speaker 8: is in the same building upstairs from Guy Banister.
• 47:10
  Speaker 10: It's like the CRC what was it, Nary Council?
• 47:16
  Speaker 8: Maybe yeah, yeah, which is interesting. And he says Arcacia
• 47:23
  Speaker 8: Smith was dressed in a sport coat, white shirt, tie,
• 47:25
  Speaker 8: very neat, short and stocky, black hair, dark complexion, talk
• 47:28
  Speaker 8: with a very thick accent. Arcascia Smith to me appeared
• 47:33
  Speaker 8: to be the boss. I had only seen Oswald three
• 47:39
  Speaker 8: or four times in the neighborhood of Lafayette and Camp
• 47:44
  Speaker 8: Streets in the Newman building is Dozel again, this is
• 47:50
  Speaker 8: David Lewis. Okay, I'm sorry. A few days either before
• 47:56
  Speaker 8: or after Mancuso's, apparently they went and a meeting in Mancuso's.
• 48:02
  Speaker 8: I went into Banister's office. I went in and they
• 48:05
  Speaker 8: shut the door to the inner office as if highly confidential.
• 48:09
  Speaker 8: In Banister's office was Banister, David Ferry, Arkasha, and a slim,
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: sandy haired young man. This man could have very well
• 48:20
  Speaker 8: been Oswald. By the way, Luis Decker, Banster's secretary, happened
• 48:26
  Speaker 8: to be in the office at this time. Another time,
• 48:28
  Speaker 8: I remember seeing Carlos Alkassha Smith and David Ferry. They
• 48:33
  Speaker 8: were walking out of Mancuso's restaurant towards Banister's office. Signed
• 48:38
  Speaker 8: David F. Lewis, Junior. So you know you have all
• 48:44
  Speaker 8: these witnesses putting Oswald and Ferry around Banister's office in
• 48:51
  Speaker 8: the summer sixty three. You know now.
• 48:57
  Speaker 10: I wasn't familiar with his count as well, So thank.
• 49:01
  Speaker 9: You for that.
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: You are welcome, sir. Now I'm going to play you Joe.
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: And this is a three minute clip of Thomas Beckham. Okay,
• 49:18
  Speaker 8: Thomas Beckham is of course another New Orleans roused about
• 49:23
  Speaker 8: there and has been implicated in being involved in some things.
• 49:28
  Speaker 8: You know, they have to do with the assassination, knowing
• 49:32
  Speaker 8: Lee Harvey Oswald. And you're actually gonna hear from his
• 49:38
  Speaker 8: HSC a interview, okay, with with Bob Burris, exactly what
• 49:46
  Speaker 8: he did and who he saw at the time. And
• 49:53
  Speaker 8: I want you to listen very carefully to what Beckham
• 49:58
  Speaker 8: says and tell me if this man sounds like he's
• 50:03
  Speaker 8: making up stuff, telling lies, or if he is recounting
• 50:07
  Speaker 8: the truth. Okay, that sounds good. All right, here we go.
• 50:12
  Speaker 8: It's three minutes. Here we go.
• 50:15
  Speaker 16: I delivered a package approximately i'd say, two weeks to
• 50:19
  Speaker 16: Dallas prior to the assassination of the president, to a
• 50:22
  Speaker 16: mister Howard. I went into mister G. J. Gill's office.
• 50:29
  Speaker 16: I was told to go there by mister Ferry, which
• 50:32
  Speaker 16: I knowed, we knew real well. And in his office
• 50:37
  Speaker 16: they shuffled up some documents which were drawings that of
• 50:42
  Speaker 16: a map or plots and stuff. There were some pictures,
• 50:45
  Speaker 16: pictures of buildings and cars, and it was.
• 50:48
  Speaker 10: Red with pictures, but.
• 50:49
  Speaker 16: There wasn't glossy. They were put inside of an envelope,
• 50:53
  Speaker 16: at which time g R Guild handed me it was
• 50:56
  Speaker 16: either one hundred or two hundred dollars, told me that
• 50:58
  Speaker 16: I was to be I was going to be taking
• 51:00
  Speaker 16: to the airport.
• 51:00
  Speaker 10: I was delivered delivered.
• 51:02
  Speaker 16: This package to uh mister uh Howard the executive then
• 51:09
  Speaker 16: at that meeting was Roswell was uh uh Jack Martin,
• 51:14
  Speaker 16: uh David Ferris, and uh a bunch of Sergia Concia.
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 51:18
  Speaker 16: Also at that meeting was your mister Uh Marcella was
• 51:21
  Speaker 16: at that meeting setting at then they were sitting on
• 51:23
  Speaker 16: a couch. I remember the couch. Uh. Uh let's see now.
• 51:29
  Speaker 11: Uh.
• 51:29
  Speaker 16: I delivered the package though they told me. One thing
• 51:31
  Speaker 16: was made remark was that I was a wearing no jewelry,
• 51:34
  Speaker 16: not to talk to uh any of the airline stories
• 51:36
  Speaker 16: to create any uh uh uh you know drone anything
• 51:39
  Speaker 16: to me. Uh. A good friend Playshaw was also there
• 51:43
  Speaker 16: and uh uh the envelope was put in a magazine.
• 51:48
  Speaker 16: They bought me a magazine. Second side there, I took
• 51:52
  Speaker 16: a kid from the airport to a place called Executive
• 51:54
  Speaker 16: Inn that's in Dallas, of where I met mister Howard
• 51:58
  Speaker 16: mister Howard was upset.
• 51:59
  Speaker 7: Because uh uh.
• 52:00
  Speaker 16: When I got out of the cab was heading there,
• 52:03
  Speaker 16: he tooted for me in his horn.
• 52:04
  Speaker 10: The car was a kindly a raggedy looking car.
• 52:07
  Speaker 16: I got in hand him the package and he leaned
• 52:10
  Speaker 16: against the door, uh as if to face me that
• 52:13
  Speaker 16: the package was away from me, and I hand it
• 52:15
  Speaker 16: to him, just like he was in the magazine.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 52:18
  Speaker 16: He opened it up and uh. He looked at me
• 52:21
  Speaker 16: a couple of times, and I affected to look off
• 52:23
  Speaker 16: from the other direction, and he got real mad.
• 52:26
  Speaker 10: He said, is this this can't be all?
• 52:27
  Speaker 16: This can't be all it is. I don't know the
• 52:29
  Speaker 16: exact words. I said, yes it is. He said, like
• 52:32
  Speaker 16: h or something to that effect.
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: It isn't.
• 52:34
  Speaker 16: And I said, look, you can go call him, meaning
• 52:37
  Speaker 16: to go call sheid guilty. I said that cause that's
• 52:40
  Speaker 16: all he gave me. So we drove from there about
• 52:43
  Speaker 16: I guess about three blocks.
• 52:44
  Speaker 8: He pulled over again.
• 52:45
  Speaker 16: He reviewed the stuff that was in the package. Now,
• 52:48
  Speaker 16: I didn't take nothing out of the package. I didn't
• 52:50
  Speaker 16: even except for seeing it on mister or Gill's desk.
• 52:53
  Speaker 16: And I'm shuffling up putting it inside the thing.
• 52:56
  Speaker 10: I didn't.
• 52:56
  Speaker 16: It was no knowledge. All I knew it was was
• 52:58
  Speaker 16: photographs of buildings and cars and I'm neatly drawn mass
• 53:03
  Speaker 16: It's not like a regular city map, but it was
• 53:05
  Speaker 16: diagrams and stuff drawn on paper. And at that time
• 53:10
  Speaker 16: to this day, I don't know. Again, I think I
• 53:11
  Speaker 16: took a cab back to the airport. Anyway, I had round trip.
• 53:14
  Speaker 16: I went back and I discussed the fact that how
• 53:17
  Speaker 16: upset mister Howard was. I discussed it with Roswell, which
• 53:21
  Speaker 16: is a Roswell Thompson, and also mister gild The thing
• 53:25
  Speaker 16: went on from there another subject that I know that Now,
• 53:30
  Speaker 16: this was within a span of two weeks prior to
• 53:33
  Speaker 16: the assassination of the president. One of the gentlemen that
• 53:37
  Speaker 16: fits in a thing that I knew I was involved in,
• 53:40
  Speaker 16: was an art thing called the Organization, which we was
• 53:42
  Speaker 16: all a part of.
• 53:49
  Speaker 8: All right, due Joe, There you have it straight from
• 53:52
  Speaker 8: the horse's mouth. Thomas Beckham himself, who would later go
• 53:57
  Speaker 8: on to become a Jewish rabbi and substance abused counselor.
• 54:03
  Speaker 8: It's still live, isn't he supposedly? Yeah, I'm still alive,
• 54:07
  Speaker 8: still doing substance abuse counseling, possibly still a rabbi, I
• 54:12
  Speaker 8: don't know, but he mentions there in the clip a
• 54:18
  Speaker 8: lot of names that we've just been talking about. Jack Martin,
• 54:22
  Speaker 8: Sergio Orcassia Smith, David Ferry, YadA YadA, Ray Gill, who was.
• 54:29
  Speaker 10: The lawyer for Carlos Marcelo. And also we did a
• 54:33
  Speaker 10: previous segment a few months ago on g Ray Gil.
• 54:36
  Speaker 10: David Ferry was doing some work for him as well.
• 54:40
  Speaker 10: I don't remember the extent of Jack Martin's work with him,
• 54:45
  Speaker 10: but I think they were connected in some way as well.
• 54:49
  Speaker 10: And of course the Lawrence Howard story I've heard before
• 54:54
  Speaker 10: very intriguing.
• 54:56
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so now we come to more proof. We know
• 55:04
  Speaker 8: that Hall and Howard were in Dallas, Okay, in September
• 55:11
  Speaker 8: of sixty three. We know that it's documented they were
• 55:15
  Speaker 8: arrested there. Yeah, okay with the trail low bail them out. Yeah,
• 55:21
  Speaker 8: they had, they had They had dropped off a trailer
• 55:23
  Speaker 8: of guns at Leicester Log's house. Apparently they got busted
• 55:28
  Speaker 8: and they got pulled over in a crappy automobile. Just
• 55:32
  Speaker 8: like Thomas Beckham told you. Howard was in right yep,
• 55:39
  Speaker 8: and I came across something Joe that I had never
• 55:42
  Speaker 8: seen before, and it intrigued me verily. Check this out, folks,
• 55:50
  Speaker 8: check yeah, check this out. This is dated September eighteenth,
• 55:57
  Speaker 8: nineteen sixty three. It is a receipt okay from Richard Hathcock,
• 56:03
  Speaker 8: signed by him and Lorenzo using his uh his war
• 56:09
  Speaker 8: name Hall, Lorenzo Hall Okay. I see now this This
• 56:17
  Speaker 8: receipt says this I received this date from Lorenzo Hall.
• 56:21
  Speaker 8: Four hundred dollars. Now this is nineteen sixty three money Joe.
• 56:26
  Speaker 10: Four thousand, easy myth ye quick myth.
• 56:31
  Speaker 8: As full price for a Bolex motion picture camera equipped
• 56:37
  Speaker 8: with three deluxe lenses, including a telephoto lens. Lorenzo Hall
• 56:43
  Speaker 8: paid by two checks, one drawn on the account of
• 56:46
  Speaker 8: the Committee to Free Cuba okay, in the amount of
• 56:51
  Speaker 8: three hundred and fifty dollars, and another drawn on the
• 56:53
  Speaker 8: account of a resident of Lehabra in the amount of
• 56:57
  Speaker 8: one hundred and fifty. I gave Haul back a one
• 57:00
  Speaker 8: hundred dollars cash. I'm assuming from these two checks, Hall
• 57:05
  Speaker 8: agrees that should either or both of these checks be
• 57:08
  Speaker 8: no good, bounce to the sky, or not be paid,
• 57:12
  Speaker 8: his wife, missus Ann Hall, will pay four hundred dollars
• 57:17
  Speaker 8: to me, plus another one hundred dollars which I would
• 57:21
  Speaker 8: have to return to my bank, totaling the full five
• 57:24
  Speaker 8: hundred dollars which the bank handed over for the checks
• 57:28
  Speaker 8: on this date. Hall attests that he and his wife
• 57:32
  Speaker 8: have a joint bank account and that the money due
• 57:34
  Speaker 8: me would be paid from such funds. Mister Hall or
• 57:39
  Speaker 8: missus Hall sorry, works at California Milling in La California,
• 57:45
  Speaker 8: and mister Hall has filled in the name and address
• 57:47
  Speaker 8: here as evidence of his good faith in this matter. Now,
• 57:55
  Speaker 8: what's interesting is, of course, there is an account in
• 58:00
  Speaker 8: any Warren commissioned documents, okay, of a separate Joe, a
• 58:07
  Speaker 8: separate incident with Richard Hathcock and Lauren Hall. Okay, as
• 58:16
  Speaker 8: you see from that receipt, Joe, there's no mention of
• 58:19
  Speaker 8: a Johnson thirty odd six rifle, is there?
• 58:22
  Speaker 10: There's not.
• 58:24
  Speaker 8: There is not a mention of golf clubs either, is there?
• 58:28
  Speaker 10: There's not? I want to call it that.
• 58:31
  Speaker 8: Yeah, So this happened in September, the other account where
• 58:38
  Speaker 8: they supposedly picked up the Johnson thirty odd six rifle
• 58:42
  Speaker 8: and you know, traded the golf clubs and gave him
• 58:44
  Speaker 8: another check. There was also cut on this committee to
• 58:47
  Speaker 8: Free Cuba whatever it is, when they picked up the
• 58:51
  Speaker 8: Johnson thirty odd six out of howk allegedly happened a
• 58:53
  Speaker 8: couple of weeks before November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
• 58:57
  Speaker 8: in November.
• 58:59
  Speaker 10: But November maybe laid off super late October.
• 59:03
  Speaker 8: Maybe Why in the hell with Lauren Hall and Lawrence
• 59:09
  Speaker 8: Howard be purchasing a four thousand dollars Bolex motion picture Okay,
• 59:22
  Speaker 8: this thing with some dinky ass plastic looking I don't
• 59:27
  Speaker 8: know what that dickhead thing looking on the back of
• 59:30
  Speaker 8: it is. It's a sixteen millimeters it.
• 59:34
  Speaker 10: Might be a bowl at the top on the left side.
• 59:37
  Speaker 8: I mean, this thing is designed to be a very
• 59:41
  Speaker 8: high quality. I mean this is not just a you know,
• 59:45
  Speaker 8: like a Zapruder type camera. This is a this is
• 59:48
  Speaker 8: supposedly at the time, a motion picture quality camera equipped
• 59:57
  Speaker 8: with three different lenses which you can see, and also
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 8: a telephoto lens. I mean, this is this is insane.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 10: Four thousand dollars is a lot of money for a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 10: camera today in nineteen sixty three. I don't care how
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 10: much money you have. That's a lot of money.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 8: And so why are you buying that kind of camera
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 8: before you make the trip to Dallas.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 10: In theory, you would want to document something.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 8: You'd think, imagine, Joe, if there is a sixteen millimeter
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 8: movie camera, film, high quality motion picture worthy of the
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 8: assassination that somebody has in their possession.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 10: In like an attic or an Yeah, in a bomb
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 10: shelter somewhere, I mean who knows, I mean in a
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 10: storage unit from like those storage or auctioning shows.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 8: You know, yeah, or you know deep locked away and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 8: HL Hunts safe. You know, who knows where this thing
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 8: ended up?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 10: And by the way, you know the Hunts hl Hunts,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 10: I think it's grand children own the Kansas City chiefs.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 9: Now.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so you know, Lauren Hall did not have this
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 8: kind of money back then. Okay, folks, he didn't. He
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 8: wasn't working, he was pawning off. Yeah, he's regularly highing
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 8: this thing from a pawn shop in Hollywood, California, is
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 8: obviously a pawn motion picture camera. And right right after
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 8: this they're going to Dallas where they get busted, which
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 8: is suspect. When you put all of these little pieces
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 8: of the puzzle Joe together, Yeah, you have what Beckham said,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 8: you have what's going on in New Orleans and it
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 8: leads to Dallas from California. You're picking this up. You
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 8: have these anti chastry operators in the mix, mercenaries. Yeah,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 8: very anti communist leaning idealists, all seemingly falling into place
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 8: in the months leading up to the assassination. Very very interesting, Joe.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 10: It's it's fascinating for sure. And that's that account of
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 10: Beckham delivering maps and money to Lawrence Howard. I mean,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 10: Lawrence Howard is definitely a suspect type, I keeping in
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 10: high regard you know there. I think it was Delsa.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 8: And uh viewers.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 10: Yeah, they went to him and like he he was
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 10: like unloaded. He's like they wouldn't he wouldn't meet them
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 10: at his house, and he met them at like a
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 10: guest and he's like double packing, like double gun or whatever.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 10: Like he was he was not going to suffer some
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 10: the fate as possibly some other JFK witnesses and or
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 10: plotters or participators ended up falling.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 8: This was an HSCA interview that they did with Lawrence
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 8: Howard at his house after they both explained to each
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 8: other that everybody was packing heat. Okay, he made it
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 8: really known to Delsa and Buris that they, you know,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 8: he's packing heat, and they say, well, we are too, Okay,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 8: So okay, well let's go to your house have a
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 8: sit down interview. And they said they left that interview
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 8: thinking that they had just they had a bad feeling,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 8: and their feeling was they had just talked to somebody
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 8: who was deeply involved in some capacity with the Kennedy assassination.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 10: I think it was. I'm not sure if it was
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 10: Buris or Delsa, but over kind of the top of
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 10: the car when they got back and he goes that
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 10: guy was involved. Yeah, and I don't know which one
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 10: it was. I can't remember. It was one of them.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 8: It was Delsa. A. This comes from a twenty plus
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 8: year homicide detective from New Orleans. Yes, okay, a gritty,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 8: hardened cop with instincts and so exactly. That wasn't some
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 8: guy right out of the academy, Okay.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 10: Doing some some congressional aid working on the HSCA.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 8: This was not him.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 10: I mean, they were considered, both of them, I believe,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 10: correct me if I'm wrong, Rob, two of the best
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 10: investigators along with Ed Lopez.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 8: Yeah, they need some amazing work. Yeah. Yeah. And next
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 8: up from August thirty first, nineteen and sixty seven, from
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 8: the office of the District Attorney, we have a letter
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 8: addressed to mister Edward Garnis, who is in the United
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 8: States Penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia. So this is Garrison's office
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 8: sending a letter to a federal prison inmate in Atlanta.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 8: They say, okay, thanks dear mister Gernis. This office is
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 8: writing to you in regard to confidential information that was
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 8: received which revealed that you may be in possession of
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 8: certain facts concerning the investigation being conducted by this office
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 8: into the conspiracy to assassinate the late President John F. Kennedy.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 8: Since we are not in receipt of any voluntary information
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 8: from you, we are soliciting your cooperation in this matter
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 8: mainly to determine if this confidential information is true and correct.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 8: If so, to gain your complete confidence and assistant in
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 8: this office. The main points of this confidential information stated
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 8: that you have knowledge about Clay Shaw being Clay Bertrand
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 8: and also Lambert. It further relates to a Sanchez. We
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 8: feel that if these facts are true, you could greatly
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 8: assist this office. Your proper reply in this matter is appreciated.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 8: Blah blah blah blah blah, very truly yours, CJ. Navarre, Investigator,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 8: District Attorney's Office. Okay, So, on September seventh, nineteen sixty seven,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 8: mister Edward Gerness decides to write back. Dear sir, your
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 8: letter arrived yesterday. However, I could not telephone you as
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 8: they do not allow it here. I don't know what
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 8: information you possess or how you acquired it, but I
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 8: can say this, Yes, I knew both of them under
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 8: various name non de plumes, sorry, and at various places
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 8: such as Hammond, Louisiana, Lake Charles, Louisiana, oak Cliffe, Texas,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 8: and Mexico. However, I do not care to discuss it
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 8: through the mail. If you should be in Atlanta in
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 8: the future and would come out here, I will talk
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 8: to you, I remained, sincerely, Edward Gurness, Box Penitentiary Lane.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 8: I don't know Atlanta, Georgia, right, so they did. They
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 8: sent people out to talk to him, and we'll have
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 8: to save all that for maybe another show. But it's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 8: interesting that he mentioned there. You know again, we're Lake Charles, Hammond,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 8: Oak Cliffe, Mexico.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 10: Oak Cliff really interesting.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 8: Because clay Shaw had ties I believe to Hammond. I
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 8: think his father lived there, or he was from there,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 8: or something. I could be wrong. Or maybe David Ferry
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 8: stayed there at that All Boys college when he didn't
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 8: want to come back to New Orleans. I don't know.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 8: I digress, and then I come across May fifteenth. Joe,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 8: May fifteenth, sixty seven, a letter from a person that
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 8: lives in Washington, d c. And he is writing to Garrison. Okay,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 8: it says, Dear District Attorney Garrison, I have for some
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 8: time been quite interested in the continuing Kennedy assassination controversy
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 8: and in your investigation of it. I feel quite strongly
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 8: about this, though not because of any particular affection for
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 8: the late president, and you have my whole hearted, wholehearted
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 8: support in your efforts. Several months ago, as a private citizen,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 8: and quite on my own, because of the dissatisfaction with
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 8: some of the things that I found in the Warren Report,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 8: I began doing my own research, most of it concentrated
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 8: on searching through city directories and phone books. I found
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 8: material and direct contradiction to what was published in the
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 8: Warren Report, and I found other things that seemed most
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 8: odd to me and at least two coincidental. Last week,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 8: after reading the newspaper stories concerning the Oswald Shawl Ruby
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 8: number code, I felt that you were moving close to
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 8: the names and addresses area of my own research, and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 8: I've decided to rite you okay, So it says most sincerely,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 8: Frank Green. He attached some things that he has found,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 8: which include Jeneral from the Warren Report Appendix twelve quote
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 8: Hydell was a favorite alias used by Oswald on a
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 8: number of occasions. Diligent search has failed to reveal any
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 8: person in Dallas or New Orleans by that name. It
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 8: was merely a creation for his own purpose. Well, this
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 8: guy found out that in reality, the nineteen sixty three
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 8: Dallas City and telephone directories list three individuals actually named Hydell,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 8: a missus William Hidel who was a widow, and at
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 8: another address, a William Hidel Junior and his wife likely
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 8: his or her son, and Yeah and why plus a
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 8: Highdell hardware company. All were still listed as of nineteen
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 8: sixty six. So how much searching did the FBI really
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 8: do about the last name Hidel In this alias, It's
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 8: really weird. The second point he makes Joe is Richard Popkins.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 8: The second Oswald states, without giving any name, that Oswald,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 8: when arrested, had on him a salary stub from the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 8: American Bakery Company in Dallas, made out to someone who
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 8: had lived at a former Oswald address and dated August
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 8: nineteen sixty, a period when Oswald was supposed to be
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 8: in Russia. Yeah, this is a very odd incident, right,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 8: I mean, why would Oswald have a nineteen six somebody
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 8: else's nineteen sixty pay stub on him at the time
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 8: of his arrest. That makes no sense whatsoever. Now, the
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 8: name listed on this bakery pace dub was James Jackson. Okay,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 8: the nineteen sixty two Dallas City directory list a James
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 8: Jackson employed by the American Bakery Company. This is back
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 8: when phone books used to tell you a lot of
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 8: things other than just the name and a phone number.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 8: They tell you where if somebody worked, and or what
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 8: they did for a living. Weird stuff like that at
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 8: two one four West Neely Street. Oswald lived there in
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 8: March and April of nineteen sixty three. No mention of
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 8: a salary stub or Jackson in the Warren report at all,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 8: so I don't know how Popkin got his information. For
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 8: the second Oswald book number three, Oswald's camp driver was
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 8: the late William Wayne Wally. Right in nineteen sixty three,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 8: A Wyatt Wayne Wally is listed as an employer employee
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 8: of Jaggers Chiles Stovall. Interesting Very number four. The nineteen
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 8: sixty two fort Worth City Directory Okay lists in O.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 8: H Lee Where we heard that name before Joe.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 10: That was the name that Oswald allegedly used at the
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 10: rooming houses Tuckley.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 8: In nineteen sixty two, fort Worth City Directory lists O. H.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 8: Lee at one seven one five South Riverside Drive. Oh
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 8: Lee's wife is Nonah M.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 9: Lee.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 8: Oswald's wife was from Marina.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 11: In Okay.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 8: Number five. The following is a seven year listing ending
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 8: in nineteen sixty three for Jack Ruby, taken from the
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 8: Dallas City Directories. Excuse me. Some of the other names
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 8: could of course be listed at Ruby addresses through overlapping,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 8: having lived there after Ruby moved. If this is not
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 8: the case, then Ruby knew them and lived with them.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 8: So from nineteen fifty six to sixty three Okay fifty
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 8: six Ruby is listed at three nine two seven Cole Avenue,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 8: Apartment B. Nineteen fifty seven, Ruby is listed at the
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 8: above address, but under the street listing. However, the apartment's
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 8: occupant is named Noble Mackenzie. Mackenzie at this address under
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 8: name listing and identified as an office worker at the
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 8: Amon Carter Airport. In nineteen fifty eight, Ruby is listed
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 8: living at four one five six Hawthorn. It's fifty eight
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 8: fifty nine, Ruby is listed at four one five six
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 8: Hawthorn again under the street listing. Occupant is listed as
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 8: Johnny Myers under the name listing Myers occupation given as
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 8: salesman for the Petroleum Heat Company nineteen sixty. We have
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 8: two addresses given for Ruby, listed as living at four
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 8: one five six Hawthorn, still and as the householder at
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 8: four seven two seven Homer Avenue, Apartment one oh five
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 8: under street listing. Occupant at four one five six Hawthorn
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 8: is a Missus Patricia Hey, occupation given as a dental
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 8: assistant to doctor John Mitchell nineteen sixty two. Ruby's listed
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 8: to two addresses listed at three nine two nine Rawlins
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 8: dress of sister Eva Grant. Second listing is at four
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 8: eight oh six and a half Brian, but under street
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 8: listing name of occupant is Jack Fisher, which could have
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 8: been a Ruby alias. This is in sixty two Ruby
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 8: supposedly living with his sister Weird sixty three two addresses
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 8: listed again as his sisters three nine two nine Rawlins
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 8: and then five hundred South Marcellus. It says Jack Fisher
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 8: could of course been a Ruby alias and by a
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 8: serious a curious coincidence. A Jack Fisher's drive in grocery
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 8: is listed in nineteen sixty three at ten twenty six
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 8: South Beckley, Whoa and Oswald lived at ten twenty six
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 8: North Beckley. In nineteen sixty four, Jack Fisher's driving grocery
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 8: was no longer in business. This probably means nothing, but
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 8: it's hard to ignore. So this is another case of
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 8: somebody just a private citizen researcher, you know, sending stuff
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 8: to Garrison to try to help out his investigation, you know,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 8: just taking one small part of the puzzle, like a
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 8: telephone book from New York. He can access this stuff
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 8: and try to see it. And then the last thing
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 8: Joe I wanted to talk about here real quick is
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 8: an incident that occurred on November the fourteenth, nineteen sixty three.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 10: Okay.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 8: Now this is a statement of someone named missus Corinne Villard. Okay,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 8: and this was given to Garrison on February twenty eighth,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 8: nineteen sixty seven. Okay, So they're interviewing her and this
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 8: is her story. On Thursday, November fourteenth, Okay, this is
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 8: a week before the assassination. Basically, I was employed at
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 8: the Newport Motel as a clerk and PBX operator. My boss,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 8: mister Peter Garrisco, who owns the hotel, had left for
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 8: a rotary club meeting at about eleven forty five am.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 8: The meeting was at the Hub Club and was to
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 8: start at noon. At around twelve forty that day, Jack
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 8: Ruby came into the motel and asked for Pete. I
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 8: told him where Pete had gone, and we started to talk.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 8: He told me of his business in Dallas and how
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 8: it was nice to get away from it once in
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 8: a while, and how he had even gone to Mexico
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 8: for a few days. This is Ruby talking. He did
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 8: not tell me when or where he had been in Mexico,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 8: but that he had already gone there. He entered himself
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 8: as gris Go very well and that he wanted to
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 8: see him. He said he was on his way to
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 8: Dallas and he was talking to me alone, and he
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 8: was by himself at that point, he could come in alone.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 8: I then noticed this man sitting at a table about
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 8: fifteen feet from me, fumbling with the phone and causing
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 8: the lights to light up on the switchboard. The man
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 8: had come in right after Ruby a few seconds later.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 8: I then asked him if I could help him, and
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 8: he said that he was just waiting for someone. He
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 8: continued fumbling with the phone, but I didn't say anything
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 8: to him, as he appeared very nervous. He appeared that
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 8: he didn't want to be looked at or talked to
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 8: by anyone. There were other people in the place, but
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 8: he just sat there and fumbled with the phone and
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 8: didn't talk to anyone. I kept looking at him because
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 8: he made me nervous as the lights on the board
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 8: were lighting up. I talked with Ruby until about one
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 8: and during this time he continuously turned around and looked
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 8: at Oswald and winked at him and kept talking. He
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 8: continually stood right in front of my desk and the
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 8: customers had to walk around him. Ruby also mentioned that
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 8: he was either trying to charter a plane out of
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 8: Patterson or going to catch a plane out of Patterson.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 8: He mentioned that he knew where to go in Patterson
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 8: and that he was familiar with Patterson as he used
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 8: to come down to the Hub Club in Morgan City
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 8: and gamble. The Hub Club is owned by Pete Grisco
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 8: and I used to work there too, and I have
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 8: seen Carlos Marcelo gambling there on many occasions. Marcello has
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 8: also been in the Newport motel and is a good
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 8: friend of Pete as well. After he Ruby finished talking,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 8: he walked out of the motel and walked towards his automobile.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 8: He walked out of the side door under the car
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 8: port in Oswald got up and walked out the front door.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 8: They met at the car and both got in. The
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 8: car was at least two or three years old. I
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 8: don't know that making I can't remember the color. And
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 8: as I look at this picture of Oswald here, I
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 8: am sure that this is the man that was in
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 8: the motel. Was Ruby that day. He had a light
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 8: colored T shirt on, maybe faded green or faded blue,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 8: or some old dirty blue jeans. There was grease on
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 8: the jeans and the shirt and a little grease on
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 8: his face. His hair was messed up. Being as he was,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 8: I just thought that he was a mechanic. Ruby made
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 8: no mention about car trouble. When mister Grisco got back,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 8: I told him that some men from Dallas were looking
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 8: for him, but I didn't want to mention his name
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 8: to him. He didn't question on who it was. He
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 8: just more or less passed it off. However, I remember
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 8: that on the next day, Friday, November fifteenth, he made
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 8: a call to Dallas and charges the call to a
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 8: Patterson number. The operator called me the next day. He
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 8: told me that Grisco had phoned Dallas and charged the
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 8: call to a Patterson number and asked me if I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 8: knew the number, and I told her that I did
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 8: not know the number and that she should talk to
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 8: mister Grisco himself. I also remember that mister Grisco also
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 8: made another call to Dallas the Monday after Ruby shot Oswald,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 8: but I don't know who he called. I do know
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 8: that the call was charged to the motel. I remember
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 8: Ruby also from when he used to come and gamble
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 8: at the Hub Club from nineteen forty five to forty seven.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 8: He used to come to Morgan City with a group
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 8: of men from New Orleans to gamble at the Hub Club.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 8: They used to always talk about how it took them
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 8: only one hour and fifteen minutes to get here. Ruby
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 8: used to always be very neat and well dressed, excuse me,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 8: and always wore white suits and shoes during the summer months.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 8: He was a good tipper and I have seen him
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 8: gamble many times in the company of Carlos, Marcello Joe.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 8: It is common knowledge that Marcello loaned Grisco the money
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 8: to build the motel, the Newport Motel, but no one
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 8: could prove it. Also, Marcello has a sister who lives
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 8: in Patterson. I can remember that after Ruby shot Oswald,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 8: I told him that this was the man who was
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 8: looking for him that day at the motel. He became
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 8: very nervous, and when I asked if he knew Ruby,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 8: he said, why do you ask? And I repeated that
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 8: he was the man that came looking for him. He
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 8: got pale and nervous and said that he'd better call
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 8: the FBI. A mister Leland Lynn from the FBI was
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 8: then contacted by Morgan City Police. When the agent questioned me,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 8: I gave him the wrong description of Ruby and didn't
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 8: mention anything about Oswald because I was afraid of what
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 8: mister Grisco would do to me. He stood right over
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 8: me while I was talking with the agent and kept interfering,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 8: and finally the agent said that he would check it
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 8: out and left. As I did not hear from him.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 8: After three weeks, I called him up and he came
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 8: to my house and he said that he had checked
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 8: my story and it was a case of mistaken identity.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 8: Pete admitted to the FBI that he knew Ruby. Around
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 8: the last part of September or first part of October,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 8: as it was just getting daylight, a woman came into
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 8: the motel alone and said to me, room room. I
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 8: asked her for her money, and she put up four
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 8: fingers and said four.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 11: Four.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 8: I said ten dollars, and she shrugged and didn't say
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 8: anything and just walked out. She walked to an old
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 8: beat up model car, two tone either blue or beige
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 8: or green or beige. There was a man in the
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 8: car that appeared to be holding a baby, and there
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 8: were boxes and clothes stacked up on the back seat.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 8: This woman talked very much like Marina Oswald, but of
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 8: course I couldn't swear that it was her. I particularly
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 8: remember her hair. It was sort of golden reddish color.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 8: They drove off in the direction of Patterson, and I
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 8: didn't mention this to the FBI either. I don't know
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 8: how this picture of the man you say is David Ferry.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 8: I'm glad mister Garrison has opened this investigation and I
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 8: want to help. However, I would want Pete Garrisco to
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 8: know so very weird, very weird. Sounds to me like
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 8: that the FBI checked into it. Mistaken identity for sure,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 8: probably Larry Crayford if it was Ruby type of thing.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 8: But again, you know he's.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 10: Messy, right Oswalt was never.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 19: Known, Yeah, never be known to be messy or Yeah,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 19: it just sounds like when she's describing him, you know,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 19: just giving her the creeps while he's messing with the phone,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 19: and then this guy didn't want to be looked at.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 8: Sounds a lot like Larry Crayford, you know, with missing
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 8: the missing part of his grill, you know, just being
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 8: a creep, you know, just being a weirdo. Yeah, as
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 8: I But anyway, that's all I got Jove receipts from
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 8: New Orleans, and I know you've got some stuff to
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 8: get into as well, kind of as a follow up
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 8: to our last show when we were talking about the
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 8: Pains roof Pain in particular and Michael Payne and their
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 8: their interactions with Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald. So let's
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 8: get right into that and get some follow up to
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 8: some of the information that we had on the last show.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 10: Let's do it, sir. And you know, I think we
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 10: talked about this pre show, but I told you I
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 10: had a surprise that was like a late happy three hundred.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 8: I didn't Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 10: I didn't play that or I was like thinking, did
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 10: I play that?
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 8: You forgot?
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 10: Yeah, So we'll do it now, and let's see.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 8: This is.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 10: The congratulations on your three hundred show and perseverance just
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 10: keep on coming in. So this is from a colleague
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 10: in the community. His name is mister Chuck o'celly of
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 10: the O'Kelly effect and also multitasker, extraordinarian lancer including investigator
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 10: into the scooter incident. I will give him credit. He
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 10: solved it within like ten minutes. So this is what
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 10: mister Chuck had to say to you and to fairness
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 10: to Chuck. Actually, Doug said this to me about two
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 10: weeks ago when I forgot to play it last week.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 20: So Chuck o'ceelliy from the Ocelli Effect sending out a
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 20: special little recording. This is to congratulate Rob Clark and
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 20: is a sort of cast of characters, guests, et cetera,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 20: along with the late edition of Joey the Scooter over
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 20: there for the three hundredth episode of the Lone Gunman podcast.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 20: Increasingly informative and entertaining action fact as per usual and
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 20: unique in its style as well as content. Love it man,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 20: been happy to call you a colleague for damn near
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 20: a decade and have you be part of the myths
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 20: and all that stuff.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 10: The episodes we did on the Ocelli.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 20: Effect lots of love, luck and continued success in the
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 20: future Lone Gunmen three hundred episodes.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 8: That was awfully nice of Chuck to do. I really
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 8: appreciate it. And and yes, make sure you're checking out
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 8: the Chili Effect as well. People. Chuck does great work
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 8: over there. He's a big supporter of a Lancer. Yeah,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 8: definitely good guy overall and lancer. Do I believe that's
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 8: your first uh.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 10: Yeah, and he also has a I think Carmine on
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 10: either every month or every two weeks, and also Larry Hancock,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 10: so it's definitely.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 8: Worth bringing Dick Larry Hancock, Yes, yes, on this show.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 10: Oh it's coming, Rob, We're I'm saving it for for
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 10: his book that is coming out, The Oswald Puzzle with
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 10: him and David Boylin. Oh yeah, as you know, maybe
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 10: maybe some things we have talked to him about and
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 10: things we have discovered will be in that book and
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 10: it should be coming out by the end of the
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 10: year update I heard, so, uh, definitely he will be
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 10: on at some point. I would wager good amount of money.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 8: So we're we're looking forward to it, looking forward to that.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 8: Hell yeah yeah.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 10: So speaking of November and Dallas, the Lancer Conference, and
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 10: I am thrilled to be going there for the second
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 10: straight year, presenting for the second straight year. H still
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 10: kind of a shock to me, you know, being uh,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 10: just a regular listener SKAFUSA in the community, and you know,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 10: my name's up there with with a lot of great people.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 10: I'm just gonna name a few, Robert and Janet Grodin,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 10: Larry Hancock, Doug Campbell, Oh, Alex Harrison, Swing Dick from
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 10: the Dallas Action and maybe the biggest swing Dick, certainly
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 10: the loudest.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 10: I'm just gonna a couple of chuck O'Kelly Gale, next Jackson,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 10: Paul Blow. I met him last.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 21: Year, carss Uh, Carlines Abistano of course, good friend of
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 21: the show, Mike Swanson, David Boyling, I met them both
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 21: last year and addiction in addition to Dick Russell, get
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 21: it right, Joe.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 10: I know I'm letting you say it.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 8: Dirty Dick Russell.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 10: Yes, yes, Uh.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 8: Well, did I ever tell you the story about about
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 8: Doug and Dick Russell in the bathroom at the conference
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 8: we went? And he did?
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 10: But it's worth repeating.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 8: So it made for a great awkward moment. Could have
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 8: sworn that it was Dick Russell and Bill Samits kind
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 8: of look alike, okay, kind of uh at a glance,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 8: you know. And I told Dougs like he's going He's like, yeah,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 8: I'm a good at the bathroom. I said, hey, man,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 8: I think I think Bill Simples just went in the bathroom.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 8: I said, So in the bathroom, they're both standing there
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 8: taking a piss, and Doug's like, hey, how you doing pleasure?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 8: To meet you, mister Sippitch. My name is Doug Campbell
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 8: and uh you guys like I'm Dick Russell Bill Simpitch. Yeah,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 8: so it was an awkward moment for for Doug, but
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 8: it makes for a great story of awkwardness.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 10: Yeah, but that was what, like how long ago?
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 8: Ten years ago?
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 10: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And of course, uh, Doug and Bill
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 10: Sippach are are now friends and colleagues and and they
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 10: and they talk, so it is funny, for sure, it is. Yeah,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 10: and uh as well as Matt DeWitt. Ut doubt it,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 10: doubt I'm sorry, sir, doubt it. Yes, of the tippet
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 10: uh situation there. Mister Fred Littwin has been on the
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 10: shoulder yeap, and mister Jeffrey Meek as well, and I'm
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 10: sure a lot more names to be announced and uh
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 10: so Rob Before I continue on Thursday.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 8: Joe, they need to use our code if you went.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 8: If you're ordering tickets, go on the website. The link
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 8: will be below in the description and any ticket package
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 8: just put in the code gum and ten. You'll get
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 8: ten percent off.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 10: Yeah, and that's like ten to twenty bucks. And you know,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 10: depending on the ticket you buy, and you can then
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 10: use that money.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 8: To buy shoe a drink or the words out of
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 8: my five minutes for yes and raise him. Oh there
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 8: on Elm Street.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 10: I was thinking of going up the the knoll like
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 10: like some like the motorcycle riders.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 8: Leaving lane on the sidewalk and run up the knoll. Yeah,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 8: Alex film and you in recreation.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 10: Right after the limo goes by, because you know the
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 10: cool thing rob is. Last year, it wasn't on the
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 10: twenty second, right, my first time in Dallas. Ever this year,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 10: I'm flying at Thursday night and a bunch of people
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 10: are going to uh the Campzee restaurant. Yeah, and Doug
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 10: messaged me, He's like, do you want to come? They're
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 10: having a private event in the Mafia room. I'm like,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 10: do you have to ask?
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 8: They know more?
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 10: Yeah? So that that is really cool to go to Campezes,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 10: to be in the Mafia room to talk to different researchers.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 8: And then on Friday, the twenty really is in the house.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 10: Yes, coffee, it is true.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 8: You will have it, play with spaghetti and a side
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 8: of garlic bread.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 10: Keep it coming at least and then Friday, you know
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 10: how they do the twelve thirty whatever moment of silence,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 10: like I've never been there on the twenty second and
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 10: then the conference starts a couple hours after.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 8: You are in for a treat, my friend. If Judith
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 8: Baker and Beverly Oliver are doing it, you are in
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 8: for a treat, buddy. That's all I got to say
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 8: about that.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 10: Oh I'm ready for that fourteen inch gap, bro.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah, bring a barf bag with you too.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 10: But it's gonna be fun. Me and Doug are gonna
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 10: be going around having a blast and pictures will be
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 10: sent in live time and who knows what else, Who knows,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 10: but I'm looking forward to it. So definitely, if you
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 10: are in Dallas or your plan on going, use the
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 10: code Government ten for ten percent off your conference tickets.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 8: Yes, any ticket package whatsoever.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 10: Yes, So please do that. And before I get into
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 10: my topic, I made the dopest breakfast sandwich the other
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 10: day with Silk City, three different hot sauces you could
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 10: see like the three different shades of red there, one
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 10: like kind of orange, honey hop hob and arrow killer
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 10: hot sauce, and one of my newest favorites, the just
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 10: joking buffalo sauce. And this I tweeted it a couple
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 10: of weeks ago, but wow, that is it was amazing.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 8: Which reminds me, Joe we have an offer for our
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 8: very own hot sauce. We just need to come up
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 8: with some names and some flavors. Yes, So comment below
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 8: on this episode, folks, if you're still listening of some flavors,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 8: some possible names that you'd like to see in a
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 8: low Guman Silk City collab. Yeah, that would be amazing.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 10: Yeah, And I think the leader in the clubhouse was
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 10: like the what was it the oh my god, I'm blinking.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 8: I was thinking that he would just eat him and
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 8: stuff that was Yes, yeah, like a ghost pepper smoky barbecue. Uh,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 8: saw something like that.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 10: With Joey on a scooter, a little cartoon guy like
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 10: flying over Ruby and his hot sauce.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 8: And yeah, just send us, send us your ideas. Actually
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 8: put him in the commet section below and uh and
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 8: we'll get it. We'll get our ideas over to Jeff
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 8: and see if we can make this thing happen. That
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 8: would be amazing, yes, sir.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 10: And before I continue here, I just want to remind everyone,
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 10: even though we are not live and we cannot interact
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 10: with you in real time. Please hit the like button.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 10: Please subscribe if you haven't subscribed, Rob, we have almost
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 10: seventy likes for like one or two under which on
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 10: our last show, which I think is the most we've
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 10: had likewise, and that's really cool. Even though we're not live,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 10: we will, of course appreciate your super chats. The Lancer
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 10: trip is not cheap, but we love every one of
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 10: you and will shut you out next Friday when we
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 10: are live for sure.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 8: From from the show I gotta do is believe it.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 8: Just hit that thanks button underneath the video here, yep,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 8: and you'll be able to help help help a brother.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 10: Get yes, sir, all right, So I with the JFK stuff.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 10: So we talked last week because Rob, we are at
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 10: the end of the day, we are we.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 8: Are, we are skeff.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 10: Yes we are, But we are also men of the people,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 10: the ladies and gentlemens that support our show.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 8: And we had a.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 10: Common or two on our live and then a comment
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 10: I got a message, and then I think we had
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 10: a commoner two on the YouTube comments about the Ruth
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 10: and Marina letters that we had briefly touched upon last
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 10: week when we were dealing.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 8: With we're gonna say lesbian love affair, but okay, letters
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 8: or war.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 10: Yes, and I have a little you know, these are
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 10: like I probably read like twenty or thirty two or
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 10: three dozen back and forth letters and I didn't realize
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 10: there were that many. But throughout the whole summer in
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 10: nineteen sixty three, they were exchanging a ton of letters.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 8: And I'm gonna.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 10: We're going to follow up on some of the topics. Yeah, ah.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 8: Marina, Yeah, Hot Texas night, thinking about you? Yeah yeah,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 8: all right, please continue before I make this podcast X rated.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 11: Right.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 10: Uh So, this is actually just a screenshot of one
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 10: of the letters from miss Marina Oswalt at four nine
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 10: o seven. Rob, look at how she spells magazine. She's
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 10: like m O g.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 11: U Z I N.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 8: But in all honesty, Joe, Yeah, that's pretty goddamn good
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 8: handwriting for somebody who's been in the country less than
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 8: a year.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 10: Yes, it is.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 8: Doesn't know me no no, no English.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 10: And if you look at the Irving Texas, you can
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 10: see like the R is kind of backwards.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 8: Uh So, I was.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 10: Actually wondering about them, was like, how did she kind
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 10: of write good English? And I looked at some of
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 10: her other letters, and they if you look, I'm not
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 10: a handwriting analysis, but you could see that kind of
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 10: trails off to the right, almost like downward and down
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 10: and all her even her Russian letters, because Ruth and
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 10: and Marina are writing in Russian to each other right now,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 10: and even Marina's Russian letters have that kind of downward slant.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 10: So it's definitely her interesting to kind of think about
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 10: her proficiency in writing English. I mean, talking it is
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 10: one thing, writing is another. So that's we've talked about
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 10: this before, but this is an example. This is actually
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 10: a Ruth letter to Marina, and I'm going to read
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 10: a little bit from it, are you well, there's a
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 10: transcription on Mary Farrell. It's actually Commission Exhibit four ten,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 10: four eleven, and four twelve, So this is actually in
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 10: the War Commission. And I think I had mentioned last
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 10: show that like I like kind of read them, or
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 10: read a couple of them, but I hadn't read them
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 10: like twenty or thirty letters back to back in a row.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 10: So this is some of the transcription. This is on
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 10: July eleventh, nineteen sixty three, from Ruth to Marina to
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 10: your Marina. If Lee doesn't wish to live with you anymore,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 10: and prefers that you would go to the Soviet Union.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 10: Think about the possibility of living with me. It would
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 10: be necessary, of course, to live dependent upon me for
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 10: a year or two while the babies are small. But
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 10: please do not be embarrassed. You are an able girl. Later,
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 10: after a year or two, you could find work in America.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 10: Granted marine is in America. I think that after a
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 10: year or two, I will live in Philadelphia. My sister
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 10: lives in Washington. Of course, Rob, we just touched upon
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 10: that last episode.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 8: Sylvia.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 10: Hope there will be work for you somewhere. You know
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 10: I have long received from my parents. I live dependent
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 10: a long time.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 8: I would be with me and my sister and her
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 8: husband at the CIA.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 10: Ruth, I would be happy to be as an aunt
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 10: to you, and I can, even though they're not that
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 10: different in ages. We have sufficient money. Michael would be
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 10: glad this.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 9: I know.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 10: He just gave me five hundred dollars extra for the
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 10: vacation or something necessary. With this money, and it's possible
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 10: to pay the doctor and hospital in October when the
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 10: baby is born they're talking about, Rachel. Believe God all
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 10: will be well. For you and the children. I confess
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 10: that I think that the opportunity for me to know
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 10: you came from God. Perhaps it is not so, but
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 10: I think and believe so. It disturbs me a great
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 10: deal that I can explain my thoughts so badly, But
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 10: it disturbs me more not to hear news from you
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 10: and what are you're thinking and doing? Marina, Come to
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 10: my home the last part of September without fail, either
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 10: for two months or two years, and don't be worried
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 10: about the money.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 8: We love you a long time. Love Ruth.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 10: Well, of course, at this time, Rob, Michael and Ruth
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 10: were not living in this same house. They were not divorced.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 10: They were quote unquote separated.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 8: Yea as they call that separated.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 10: Yeah, we touched on a little bit, but Ruth continues,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 10: I don't want to hurt Lee with this invitation to you.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 10: So she's aware that this is going to hurt Lee, right, Uh.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 10: Only I think that it would be better that you
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 10: and Lee do not live together if you do not
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 10: receive happiness. I understand how Michael feels. Michael Payne, he
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 10: doesn't love me, and he wants the chance to look
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 10: for another life and another wife. He must do this,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 10: it seems, and so it is better for us not
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 10: to live together. I know how. I don't know how
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 10: Lee feels, but I would like to know. Surely things
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 10: are hard for him too. I hope that he would
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 10: be glad to see you with me where he can
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 10: know that you and the children will receive everything that
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 10: is necessary and he won't need to worry about it.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 10: Thus he could start his life again. Since right, please, sincerely, Ruth?
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 10: So very interesting?
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 9: Oh wow?
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 10: Did I do I have the lancer thing still up? No? No, okay,
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 10: I have the sum Sorry.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 8: You have the Russian version?
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 9: Yeah?
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 11: Got it?
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 10: So Ruth actually writes the day after right. Marina hasn't
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 10: got this letter yet. Michael and I talked yesterday evening
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 10: about the invitation to you and the children to live
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 10: at my home. It seems one not need to consider
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 10: this quote independence upon someone. Why listen? Michael receives from
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 10: Bell Helicopter Company each year ninety two hundred dollars salary.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 10: That's about ninety two thousand dollars today. He also gets
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 10: money each year from a grandmother. We talked about his
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 10: kind of elite background in family history.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 8: As inheritance trust fund or whatever. Yeah, but it.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 10: Only says five hundred or more a year. So Ruth
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 10: is kind of saying, I don't know how much it is.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 10: This is just what he gave me, so I don't
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 10: think we can really quote that. But I noted that number. Nonetheless,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 10: I spoke of it in the last letter, but he
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 10: didn't say what the money was from. He has to
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 10: pay the government about eighteen hundred dollars in taxes each year,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 10: but for each who lives dependent upon him, he receives
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 10: a six hundred dollars reduction in his tax. He already
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 10: receives a reduction for four people him, Ruth and their daughter,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 10: and for dependents who live upon a salary. All the same,
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 10: he has to pay a tax of around eighteen hundred
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 10: a year. Granted, that's like eighteen thousand out of ninety
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 10: two thousand. I'll get to those calculations in a second.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 10: I did some really nerdy financial stuff you'll see soon.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 10: For each more independence upon him, he receives a reduction
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 10: of six hundred a year. That's if you, June and
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 10: the baby live here. That's Marina and her not yet
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 10: born child and June as dependents. If Lee doesn't count
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 10: you as a dependent in that year. So she's saying
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 10: this is only going to work if Lee doesn't claim
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 10: you as dependents. So she's essentially trying to get a
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 10: tax break for having them live there and screwing Lee's
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 10: tax rate. Who makes a ton less. And if you
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 10: think the three dependence Lee could claim, which would be June, Rachel,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 10: and Marina, that eighteen hundred dollars would be a huge
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 10: percentage more than based on lee salary than it would
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 10: Michael's salary.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, but I don't think they had like earn
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 8: income credit back then either, but something like it, but
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 8: maybe not called that, right, right.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 10: So thus it is evident that we do not suffer
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 10: from the following invitation. So I think what she said
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 10: Ruth is saying here is if you come live with us,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 10: we're not gonna suffer greatly if we can claim you
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 10: as dependents type of thing. Come here at the end
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 10: of September, we can give you one hundred a month
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 10: pay for the doctor and hospital. For one hundred dollars,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 10: you could buy what you want, pickles nomor that's the
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 10: first thing.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 8: Yes, big Bill Pickle, oh Man.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 10: I knew I was setting up for that closed stamps,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 10: gifts for your aunt and the USSR, etc. It would
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 10: not be necessary to ask me or to receive permission
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 10: to buy something. Of course, one hundred dollars is not
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 10: that much per month. It would be from January sixty
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 10: four to December sixty four. So she's talking about all
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 10: of nineteen sixty four Marina living with her, which is
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 10: really yeah.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 8: Because in nineteen sixty three, even if she moves in
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 8: with them in September, the majority of the year she
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 8: had lived with Lee. So they cannot claim her for
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 8: the year in nineteen sixty three.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 10: Probably not, but I'm not sure that they wouldn't try.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 8: Well, they can try, but right you know, I don't think.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 8: I don't think it works that way.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 10: I agree. I think you need to show proof. But
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 10: like you said, she's saying, nineteen sixty four, so the
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 10: house furniture already here, not in deserted by I love you, Marina,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 10: and I want to live with you. I just hope
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 10: that you and Lee will agree if it is easier
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 10: for you, I can come for you in June and September.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 8: I think this is what ends up happening.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 11: Yep.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 10: By the way, I would want to talk with Lee
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 10: about everything. How is it possible to telephone you and Lee?
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 10: What is the family name of his uncle and the
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 10: number of their telephone? I hope to see you, see Marina.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 10: I think you don't have to return to the Soviet
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 10: Union if you don't want to. Sincerely, Ruth h So
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 10: this is I think two nights later after that, Marina
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 10: writes another letter to Ruth. Yes, another letter to Marina
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 10: that you were up. Oh, I have made a mistake.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 10: Michael explained to me yesterday that the reduction six hundred
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 10: dollars for each dependent must be subtracted from the salary,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 10: not the tax. So yeah, so it's the eighteen hundred
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 10: dollars deduction. Rob would be from his taxable income, which
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 10: would be that ninety two thousand, not canceling out. Say
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 10: that the eighteen dollars.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 8: Real quick, because you jumped into ninety two thousand. Where
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 8: do you where are you getting that number from?
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 10: What two thousand?
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 8: You said? Ninety two thousand?
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 10: Yeah, so ninety one nine.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 8: You haven't explained how you got that number yet.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 10: Okay, well right now, this is from Marina's or Ruth's
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 10: note to Marina that says Michael receives Belt Helicopter Company
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 10: each year ninety one thousand, ninety eight dollars. So I
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 10: rounded up two dollars to ninety two.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 8: That's not ninety one thousand, that's nine thousand.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 10: But I'm times in it by ten to account for inflation.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 10: It's an okay, No, it's no, it's okay. Maybe people
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 10: in the audience were confused too, So yeah, the easy
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 10: math is to kind of times it by ten. It's
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 10: a little more, but it's essentially ninety two thousand dollars
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 10: salary for So that's where I being the number from.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 10: Thank you for clarifying. This is the next one. I
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 10: made a mistake. I can't give you, she says. Michael
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 10: explained to me yesterday that the reduction eighteen hundred dollars
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 10: must be subtracted from the salary, not the tax. When
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 10: the salary can be considered less. The government wants less tax,
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 10: but not eighteen hundred less, as I wrote you, and
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 10: she wrotes in quite quotations, it's better or not for
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 10: letters at two am. Interesting, so Ruth is writing letters
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 10: to Marina at to it, but it seems that it
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 10: would be for Michael about four hundred and fifty dollars
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 10: each year less, that's about that's a discount that he
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 10: would receive. That's forty five hundred dollars and taxable income
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 10: out of his ninety two thousand dollars payroll. If you
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 10: had three more people dependent on a salary. Well, we
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 10: are not so rich as I thought, but we can
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 10: do it. If you wish to live with the children
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 10: at my house, we would give you ten dollars each week.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 10: That's important. Rop from this you could buy what you
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 10: wish clothes, stamps, but not food. I will buy the
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 10: food and also pay for the doctors, medicines, et cetera
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 10: commission exhibit for twelve.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 8: Yeah, she went from one hundred dollars a month to
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 8: ten dollars a week, which is forty dollars a month.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 10: Right, So, and then Ruth continues, you don't understand how
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 10: it would be useful and pleasant for me to live
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 10: with you. I very much want to learn Russian, but
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 10: how can I at home with the children. It is
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 10: very difficult to study, and I have little practice with
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 10: the language. Yet you're writing full, multi page letters in
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 10: Russian to Marina. Yeah, like you already know the language. Okay,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 10: I mean you want to master it more, that's right.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 8: But she's already studied it. She knows it, she can
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 8: speak it, she.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 10: Can writing it, which I think harder than speaking it. Yeah, Ruth,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 10: we don't have to live like rich people. We can
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 10: live simply but healthily. I would count it. Count that
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 10: it costs me little to buy groceries and pay the
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 10: doctor and hospital, and receive a knowledge of Russian and
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 10: help with my mistakes and conversation and then letters. She
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 10: talks about setting her calcium tablets. So very interesting. So
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 10: I didn't go right, Well, you said, I said go
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 10: where You said something.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 8: No, I didn't say anything.
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 10: Okay, Sorry, So I made a little breakdown here, and
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 10: this is going to get a little complicated, but I'm
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 10: going to try to keep it as simple as I can.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 8: This is what we call folks fintech. Joe.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 10: Yeah, this is actually like basic budgeting. But about ninety
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 10: two hundred dollars Bell helicopter annual salary ninety two twenty
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 10: twenty four, five hundred dollars per year with the inheritance,
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 10: so that's about five thousand dollars. That's not that much.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 10: I actually thought it was five thousand dollars, which have
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 10: made it fifty thousand, which made a lot more sense,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 10: but it isn't. And because it's probably in a trust,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 10: as you mentioned before, and it's probably not subject to
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 10: tax I didn't include it in my calculations. And third,
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 10: here you have the dependent credit six hundred per dependent
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 10: eighteen hundred total Marina June and Rachel eighteen thousand dollars today,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 10: so you have about eighteen hundred dollars from an income
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 10: of ninety one to ninety eight, and that is equivalent
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 10: that equals out to an eighteen point six percent federal
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 10: tax rate. Okay, ye, So then instead of the taxes
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 10: eighteen hundred and the dependent credit canceling each other out,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 10: you actually subtract eighteen hundred from the ninety two hundred salary.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 10: That equals about seventy four hundred taxable income. And if
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 10: you multiply that by that same tax rate as the
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 10: previous year, which stated in her letters, that'd be about
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 10: thirteen hundred and seventy six dollars. And if you deducted
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 10: that from the eighteen hundred, that'd be about four hundred
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 10: twenty four dollars or forty two hundred dollars in tax
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 10: savings for the year. Ruth stated in her letter that
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 10: if Marina and her two kids were dependents of the Pains,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 10: they would save four hundred and fifty dollars aka forty
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 10: five hundred dollars. So she's not far off. And the
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 10: interesting thing we're going to go back, Ruth offered Marina
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 10: ten dollars a week. There are fifty two weeks in
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 10: the year, rob, so that is five hundred and twenty dollars.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 10: Ruth essentially is offering more money in just allowance than
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 10: the Pains would have saved in their tax tax savings
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 10: for the three added Oswald dependents. Ruth also offered to
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 10: pay for all the food, doctors, and medicine, arguably the
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 10: three biggest expenses for a new mother, and of course
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 10: was not charging Marina rent either.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 8: So this seems like a lot of nickel and dime
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 8: bullshit for somebody making ninety two thousand dollars a year comparatively, Yeah, man,
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 8: like they're basing whether or not Marina can come live
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 8: with them based on their tax savings, that it'll all
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 8: set the cost of I mean, that's that is ridiculous.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 10: Honestly, it is But the thing that stuck out to
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 10: me is the tax savings. Even if you if you
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 10: did use roots number of four fifty or my number
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 10: that I came up with is four twenty four, which
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 10: is forty two hundred dollars to forty five hundred dollars,
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 10: it's not even a come close to the fifty two
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 10: hundred dollars five hundred and twenty dollars ten dollars a
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 10: week for forty two weeks you're gonna have to give
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 10: to Marina, and that's not even accounting food doctors in medicine.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 10: So they're obviously here, rob there's not a financial motive
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 10: as far as I can tell, to.
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 8: Have seemingly as one, but there really isn't.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 10: Right, That's what That's what I kind of figured out here.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 10: There doesn't seem to be a financial motivation to have
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 10: Marine and the kids move in, So the question is
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 10: what was the motivation. Something is adding up here is
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 10: this conversation about their finances and taxes. The root and
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 10: I thought of this randomly. The reason the Pains tax
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 10: returns are still classified quite possibly obviously they're still live too,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 10: but they for my copulation is they'd be spending one
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 10: hundred to two hundred dollars a month on Marina and
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 10: our kids like food and stuff. It's like one or
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 10: two grand. You're talking about like twelve to twenty four
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 10: thousand dollars. There wasn't a financial motive, So what was
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 10: the motive? Was it out of their good heart or
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 10: was there another motive? I don't know the answer. I'm
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 10: just bringing up. I'm bringing up that their numbers and
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 10: all this back and forth of financial and tax matters
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 10: really wasn't I mean, they were losing either way. Now,
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 10: did Ruth kind of or Michael say, okay, if she
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 10: wants to live with you, claim her as dependence or
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 10: at least I could save five grand, which is like,
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 10: you know, close six seven percent of his salary. Maybe,
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 10: but what do you feel comfortable with her living with
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 10: a woman instead of being single? I mean, Ruth was
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 10: kind of its kind of cue back then. I don't know.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 10: I'm just saying the number don't make sense when you
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 10: calculate them, and yeah.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 8: Fo shizzy, my friend. Yeah, of course, right, folks, we
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 8: all know about alterior motives, and I'm sure Ruth had
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 8: a few two three, four, Who knows anyway, Joseph. That's
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 8: it for us. Episode three or five Loan Gument Podcast
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 8: Joe Borelli and your boy, Big Bad Bobby. We are
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 8: going to end this show on a slightly different note. Show.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 8: I think it's gonna be our go to from now on.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 10: Interesting.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 8: We're gonna dance about this bitch like Dean Andrews in
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 8: New Orleans. You ready for this, I'm ready, all right,
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 8: prepare be entertained our boy jive talking lawyer Me and
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 8: Andrew the next week. Thanks for hanging out with us again,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 8: even though we can't be there in person kind of thing,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 8: but we kind of are kind of thing. We'll be
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 8: back live next week and uh see you all then.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 8: Until next time, folks. Peace.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 22: He's being Patty's prison. He did not talk for the record,
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 22: but he said, come to Bourbon Street and I'll show
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 22: you what I think of the case. The greatest lies
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 22: are told in the name of truth. The greatest crimes
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 22: are committed in the name of justice. The quotation is
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 22: Jim Garrison's. It could be used for him or against
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 22: him in this strange case.
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 7: Good Night,