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Ghost Ships · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Why We Do What We Do. I am
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: your ghost captain host, Abraham.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: And I'm your first mate ghost host, Shane.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: that humans and non-human animals do. Until we get to October,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and then we just talk about random, cool, spooky stuff.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of it's still centered in and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: around things that humans and non-human animals do. Sometimes we're like,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: we'll just talk about a spooky thing, and it's just
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: fun to talk about. But we'll try and layer in
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit of psychology, too.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Because I think that one of my favorite things, and
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: we've talked about this before, I love the study of...
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: I love where science meets like the things that it
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: can't explain. So like when paranormal things come up, I
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: just love that idea of like, I want to see
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: you try to do this.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: To convince me. I want to be convinced that ghosts exist.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: So keep trying. But like so far, we haven't gotten there. Maybe.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe ghost ships. Maybe.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The evidence would need to be incontrovertible. And not
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: that this means anything, but I heard a really good
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: point on another podcast. They were making that once supernatural
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: events become real, empirical like observable as a natural phenomenon
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: they're no longer supernatural because they're natural so it's like
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: right by calling it supernatural you're sort of admitting that
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: it's not real and couldn't possibly exist.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Right i remember saying that otherwise.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah otherwise it would be a natural event which would
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: be cool like i'd love to understand how something like
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: that could possibly work but um it don't it don't
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: do that yeah anyway speaking of supernatural it's uh It
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: is October, Halloween month, which means that we are going
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: to talk about some creepy things starting with this episode.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: This is our debut for this year. We've been doing
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: this for many years, but this will be our first
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: episode of our creepy month of topics.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So get ready.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: We are so excited. This is like our favorite series
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: to do because we just.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Have so much fun with this.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: It's so great to dive into these weird little things.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yes. Very fun. If you're listening to this on
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the day that it publishes, it is October 7th. So
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: happy Balloons Around the World Day.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, be careful with those.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seriously.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: It's Bathtub Day. I love that. It is.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to skip that one. It is LED Light Day.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I am so glad you did that. I love LED lights,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I guess. It's National Flower Day.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Do you know what LED stands for?
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Lights... Elephant dimmed. I don't know. I don't know. What
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: does LED stand for?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: You got it. That's exactly it. Light emitting diode.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Ah, that actually makes sense.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It's much better than mine. Did you say that it's
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: National Flower Day?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I did say it's National Flower Day.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, then it's National Forgiveness Day.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: It's National Frappe Day or Frappe Day. I never liked frappuccinos.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Not my thing.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: There were some that I enjoyed, but a little too
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: sugary for me.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fair. A little too sweet.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: National Inner Beauty Day. I like that.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's National Kale Day.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: It is National Personal Safety Day. It's a good one.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I'd like that. It's National Pumpkin Seed Day.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love pumpkin seeds.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, so good.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Now I want to go get pumpkin seeds. It's Random
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Acts of Poetry Day.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: It is Team Margo Stem Cell and Bone Marrow Registration Day.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: It is Walk to School Day, I guess.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: It is. And it is You Matter to Me Day.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's cute. Oh. It is Active Aging Week.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I am doing that. I'm doing that currently and have
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: been for some time.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well-practiced at this. Yeah. It is Animal Welfare Week.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Yay. Yay. It is Band Books Week. Is it band
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: or band?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: It's band.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: I corrected it. So it is books that you're not
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: supposed to read, not books about music.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Okay. I wrote it wrong in the notes. That was
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: my fault. I'm sorry.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I like the idea. I mean, there are a lot
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: of band books about bands. So I was like, I mean,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: maybe that's a thing. Yeah. I can see it. Yeah.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you're interested and want to get started,
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Please Kill Me is a really great one. This week
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: is Death Penalty Focus Week.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: We did an episode about that, I believe, or at
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: least talked tangentially about it, but a long, long, long
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: time ago. It is Mystery Series Week.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, it is. It is National Vegetarian Week.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Nice. Also, yesterday was my birthday and tomorrow is my
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: mother-in-law's birthday. Happy birthday. So happy birthday to Cheryl.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't even see it come up on my calendar.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: I'm the worst. I'm the worst friend. Happy birthday, my friend.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: All good things.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Perfect.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: All right. But we're not here to talk to you
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: about the holidays at all. We're here to talk to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: you about something much creepier, although some of them are
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit creepy. Those holidays, that is. And if
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: you're joining us for the first time, then welcome. I
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: hope that you enjoy what you hear in this discussion.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: If you're a returning person, then welcome back. You know
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: what you're in for. A bunch of rambling, a bunch
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: of fun, a bunch of... hopefully informative, edutainment-type stuff.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: And either way, if you'd like to support us, you
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: can leave us a rating and a review, like, subscribe,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: tell a friend, join us on Patreon briefly. I'll talk
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: more about those things at the end of our discussion.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: But I think that's it for my intro. Are we
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: ready to dive into this?
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's time to party.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. I don't know that we have actually announced what
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: we're discussing, but if people read the title, which they
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: might have to... click or select play, then you'll know.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: But we've tackled supernatural things several times and processed them
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: through the filter of scientific scrutiny. Even when they're sort
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of supernatural fun things, we're like, well, hold on, what's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: actually going on here? And then we impact them. And
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: although I think that's fun, it might be, maybe kills
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the magic for some people. But we don't believe in
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: anything supernatural. This likely does not come as a surprise
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: to anybody, but it is fun to unpack them and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: take them on in sort of a whimsical way in
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: this sort of loose discussion format of them. Yes.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: And so it is Halloween month. We always take on
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: some spooky topics. Today, we're going to talk about ghost ships,
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: what they are and why they are, or at least
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: why they happen or why we think they happen or
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: why somebody might have thought that a ghost ship happened
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: once or twice.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed. So anything else before we jump in?
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: No, let's talk about these. Let's talk about these spooky captains. Okay.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Just dragging my feet because I'm so scared. Just kidding.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: All right. Ghost ships, also called phantom ships, used somewhat
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: differently depending on what they're referring to. Like phantom ships
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: more refers to like the actual ships that themselves are ghosts.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: And ghost ships more like actual ships. Anyway, these can
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: refer to several different phenomenon. Ships that are fantastical, such
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: as phantoms, ghosts that are themselves ghosts, or ships that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: are themselves ghosts, or are occupied by ghosts. There are
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: mythological entities used to explain some maritime phenomenon. In modern times,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and I mean technically older, but they just didn't call
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: them this long ago. In modern times, a ghost ship
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: might be one that has disabled their tracking system. Like
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: all ships are generally required to have a tracking system.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So if you don't, then you might be thought of
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: as a ghost ship because you wouldn't be detectable. And
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: then there are also real ships that have been found
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: with no people on them. Yeah. But they're sitting there
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: floating around anyway. We'll be taking on that last one
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: for the most part for the majority of this discussion.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: Like the ship in Jurassic Park, The Lost World. It
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: showed up and then there were no people, but there
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: was a Tyrannosaurus. And that was scary.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: That was a ghost ship. That is a fact.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Briefly. Briefly. Yeah, there's that.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: And there's also Ghostbusters 2 when the Titanic showed up.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: But it was a ghost ship. And then Cheech was like, oh, no,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: this is concerning.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: So imagine being out on the ocean on a boat
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: and coming across another boat just drifting towards you. They
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: don't respond to any radio frequencies or visual signals and
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: does not appear to be heading in any particular direction. Curious,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: the captain approaches the boat.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: As you approach this boat, the resounding sounds of silence
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: announce the absence of life upon the approaching vessel. The
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: boat's movements are somewhat unpredictable and seemingly subject to the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: whims of the ocean.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, scary.
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  Speaker 3: Your ship pilots a small boat to the mysterious vessel and,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: through some heroic effort, are able to climb aboard. Once
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: on the deck, the meandering cadence of the ship is
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: particularly unsettling.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: You start looking around the ship, opening doors, looking underneath things,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: calling out, and you find nothing. You find no bodies,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: living or dead. But there's food left out. The lights
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: are on. The logbook was somewhat recently filled out. and
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: even some computers are running, questions begin swirling.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: It's like Event Horizon is just a ghost ship movie,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: but it's space hell.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And it's so scary.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: By the way, it's spooky season. If you're watching horror movies,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: you should add Event Horizon to your list.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, so scary. All right.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: So ghost ships, although many are unsubstantiated, are such mysterious crafts.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Why do these ships happen? Well, there are a few
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: reasons why this does happen. And not only just a
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: few reasons that are scientific, but very logical, too, when
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: you think about it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, actually, there's going to be a lot in here
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that is, I think you're like, well, yeah, of course.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: But you might not think about it because you might
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: be thinking of the movie Ghost Ship where everybody gets
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: cut in half by the guide wire.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: And that was scary, too.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I remember that movie.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I liked that movie.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I thought it was good.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun. It was entertaining. Yeah, yeah.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. I think entertaining is the better way
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: to put it. All right. So let's talk about our
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: first one here. This ship is called the HMS Resolute,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: although it had changed names once or twice before here.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: This is a three-masted ship of the British Royal Navy,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and it's There's a lot of backstory behind this. Essentially,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: John Franklin was in charge of some other ships that
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: had gone out in search of the Northwest Passage through Canada.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: This is back when they believed that there was some
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: waterway that cut across to North America that you'd be
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: able to sail across, which would be very, very important
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: for trade. So they were in search of this and
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: they disappeared. Couldn't find them. Now, this is a very, very,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: very long time ago. We're talking like a century or something. Anyway,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: this is not at the point where they would have
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: been able to use GPS or radio or anything like that.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So this guy had gone out. His ships had gotten lost.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: They were very valuable. The people on them were obviously important.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: And so they sent out search missions to try and
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: find and recover the crew and the ships as much
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: as they possibly could. And the Resolute was one of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: those ships that was on a mission to recover the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: lost vessels in search of the fabled Northwest Passage. The
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: captain of the HMS Resolute was a man named Henry Collette.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: He was apparently a very beloved captain. He made his
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: crew feel important. He spoke kindly to people. He was patient,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: but like a strong leader. People really, really liked Henry Collette.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: He was forced to abandon his ship because they got
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: lodged in ice. They basically just could not get the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: ship loose. The weather was really bad. They were stuck
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in ice. They basically climbed off the ship onto the
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: ice and went to go build themselves some shelter. They
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: cut down a bunch of chunks of the ship. They're
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: going to go build some shelter and try and like
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: weighed out the storms and whatnot. And this was, they
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: left it in the ice and the Viscount Melville sound,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: which I think is somewhere in Canada.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Did you say discount Melville sound?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you're queuing up an ad. All right,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: so we are back.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: The crew of the HMS Resolute has been stranded on
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: the ice in the Viscount with a V, Melville sound.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: And the Resolute, freed from the ice at some point,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: because sometimes that happens, drifted aimlessly on the ocean and
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: was found 1,200 miles away off Baffin Island, Canada, over
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: a year later, still in surprisingly okay condition, although it
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: had taken on a lot of water.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So it had been floating for like a year just
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: out there and nobody had seen it. And then all
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: of a sudden they ran into it again. And upon
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: recovering the ship, they decided to salvage what they could.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And the timber from the ship was used to construct
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: a now famous desk named after the ship itself, the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Resolute Desk, which if that name sounds familiar, this is
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the desk that occupies the Oval Office in the White
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: House in the United States. It has served as the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: president's desk since John F. Kennedy. It was in various
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: locations around the White House before that, but John F.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Kennedy turned it into the president's desk, and it has
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: mostly been the president's desk since then. But yeah, the
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: president's desk, the Resolute Desk, is made from the ship,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the HMS Resolute.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Man, I can't wait for that desk to be a
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: ghost desk.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Right now please right now please.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: God okay i actually really love that i wouldn't be
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: surprised that there are a lot of examples of something
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: like that where like some furniture is made of repurposed
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: like shipwood i'm sure that that is like a thing
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: you know like yeah it's got to be it's clearly
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: it's got to be because we've got a desk that's
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: made of ghost ship that's right so the bay chimo
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: was a steamer fortified to handle large amounts of ice
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: so that it could stay in operation across many seasons
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: although described as an unsightly mundane ship. Could you imagine
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: being described like that as a human? Unsightly and mundane.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, cool. Thanks. That poor ship probably had
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of self-esteem issues.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: That's why it came back to haunt everyone. You know,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: it was like, I'll get you. So this unsightly mundane
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: ship that also wasn't even as fast as other similar ships,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: it managed to create its own legacy.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yes. So Similar to the Resolute, the Bay Chimo had
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to be abandoned when it became stuck in ice. This
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: was in Barrow, Alaska in 1931. The crew attempted to,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: so this is another one, they abandoned ship and then
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: once the weather had cleared, they attempted to return to
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the ship only to find that where they had left
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the ship, it was now gone suddenly. Evidently, it somehow
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: broke from the ice and just drifted away. There was
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: like a large mound of like snow and ice where
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: it had been, but they like climbed on top of
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: it and they're like, where did our ship go?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Oh no, there's a boat.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: So about a week later, it was spotted about 70
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: miles away, locked in ice, but couldn't be reached due
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: to the broken ice surrounding it. And then it disappeared again.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: So it was spooky traveling ghost ship. It continued to
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: appear and disappear. That's I think my favorite part. It's like,
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Here I am.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: See you later. Here I am. See you later.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's tricky.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: And even boarded several times, but ultimately had to be
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: abandoned again for an impressive three decades, way more than
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: most ships would have been expected to stay afloat unoccupied.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: So its final sighting was in 1969, although its remains
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: were never found.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: It's important to call them remains of the boat.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The bones of the boat.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, this boat had kind of gone
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: through a lot. They actually had used it to try
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and rescue other boats that had become stuck in the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: ice because, again, it was really built to handle ice.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: But over time, it had just gotten beaten and battered
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and just beat up by the ocean and by the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: ice it had run into and whatnot. And so, the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: hole was in fairly rough shape and they were kind
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of not wanting to invest in repairs. And so, at
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: one point when it was found some amount of years later,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: some people were able to board it and they noted
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: they're like, it's actually in, it's like a surprisingly okay shape.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It didn't have a big dash in the side, but
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it seemed to be staying afloat and seemed
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to be kind of doing okay. Then for whatever reason,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: they had to abandon it again. I'm guessing like none
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: of the equipment that would propel the ship actually worked anymore.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: This was a steam ship. So it's like you would,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: they didn't have masts. There was nothing you could do
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to get it moving if the steam engine wasn't working. So,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: so yeah, they had to abandon it and they just,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: just like, bye and floated away.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so then, yeah, they kept the sightings of it.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, for three decades, it's so long, like three
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and a half decades, kind of like that was a
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: very long time for a ship to be just floating
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: because you would have otherwise expected it to just sink
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: at some point. Like storms or waves or something would
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: capsize and it would just sink. And probably it did
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: at this point. But let's tackle another ship. Yeah. All right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: About 400 miles away in the Azores, which is a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: volcanic archipelago. and a region of Portugal, an autonomous region
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: of Portugal in the North Atlantic Ocean, there was a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: British brig named the Deigratia, Gratia or Gratia, maybe? D-E-I-G-R-A-T-I-A. Anyway,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: they spotted a vessel called the Mary Celeste drifting aimlessly
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: from its last logged location in December 1872. And the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: reason I say 400 miles west is because It was
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: 400 miles west of where the logbook had last indicated
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: it was, just like a week before.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Which we'll get to that part. But anyway, so this
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: brig spots this ship, the Mary Celeste, and the captain
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: of the Dei Gratia sent a boarding party to the
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: drifting vessel and found the ship was largely intact and
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: in pretty good shape. The only lifeboat that was on
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the ship was missing. Two of the pumps had been disassembled.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: All of the charts were gone. But curiously, all of
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the crew's belongings were still present, like were still on
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the ship. Also, there were the cargo on the ship,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: which was 1,701 barrels of industrial alcohol. And then down
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: in the hull of the ship with the cargo, there
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: was about three and a half feet of water. sloshing
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: around in the hull of the ship.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Now, the Mary Celeste had begun its journey on November
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: 7th of 1872 with only seven crew members, Captain Benjamin Briggs,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: his wife, Sarah, their two-year-old daughter, Sophia, and a crew
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: of four other respected seafarers. None of the family or
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: crew were ever seen or heard from again. Yeah.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: The circumstances of the ship were very mysterious because it
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: was sort of like, why How does a ship end
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: up in this particular condition? There was a lot of
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: speculation that maybe it was pirates. Maybe there was a mutiny.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe there were sea monsters.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Reasonable.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe there was a rogue killer water spout or some
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: psychotic murderous crew member that killed everybody, I guess, and
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: maybe threw them overboard. I don't know.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's mysterious. We don't know.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: It could have been a sea monster.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Now, investigators have been able to put together the most
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: likely scenario. The last logbook entry was 5 a.m. on
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: November 25th, 1872. The captain had a faulty chronometer, chronometer, chronometer, chronometer.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's chronometer.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Chronometer, which is a type of watch.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: So his logbook entries indicate that they had been battling
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: terrible weather, rain and wind for several days. And he
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: was concerned that by his estimation, they should have seen land,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: but hadn't.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Essentially they were, he misunderstood where they were in relation
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to where he thought they should be. And so he
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: was getting quite scared and a little bit desperate. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: because he misestimated their location by a pretty significant amount,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: he tried to course correct, as you might. Eventually, inside
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: of land, although it wasn't the land he thought it was,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: what they think happened is they likely all abandoned the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: ship just in a hurry. They're just like, get off,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: there's land over there, we're heading to land.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Now, some of the more plausible theories state that the
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: alcohol may have smelled in such a way that it
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: scared the captain and maybe the crew, particularly.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Given that it is very flammable.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: However, the boarding crew did not note or report any
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: particularly concerning smell and the cargo was later recovered.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: So it was still in good enough shape to be
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: used like they wanted the cargo. Right. It's not cheap
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to haul all of that back to or to a
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: new location or something. So they had to be of
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: value that they would be willing to keep it. There
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: was another theory that one of the barrels exploded and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: blew the hatch off the cargo hold, and that frightened
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: the crew, who then abandoned the ship because they're like, oh,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: my God, this thing is going to blow, get off
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the ship. Which kind of makes sense for why they
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: would have been in such a hurry. But they noted
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: that the hatch was intact. So that theory doesn't really
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: make any sense and is pretty unlikely. Yeah.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Now, most likely because the pumps were broken, they didn't
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: know how much water they had taken on. And out
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: of an abundance of caution and a fear for his family,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: he decided it wasn't worth the risk. It wasn't worth
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: it to risk the viability of the ship's hull.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: So they just kind of were like, no, thanks. We'll
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: see you later.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So like some of the other theories, like there
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: was a murderous person, like there were no signs of
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: a struggle anywhere. There were no like there weren't broken
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: things or like things turned over where it looked like
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: people had been fighting, which is also why they didn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: think that it was had been boarded by pirates. Again,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: no signs of violence, no blood anywhere. Also, all of
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the ships like valuables were still on there. I'm like
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: pirates pretty much care about one thing and that's whatever
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: valuables they can loot from a ship. So unlikely that
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: it was pirates. And also like the crew had a
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: pretty good reputation. So it was like really unlikely that
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: like they would have mutinied and they hadn't even been
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: out that long. Like it had been less than a month.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: These are like seasoned people who knew what they were doing.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: And although I'm sure it was very stressful and like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: if you've been on a ship for long periods of time,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: you know how stressful it can be. So that's probably
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: what happened is that they were like, We know we've
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: taken on water. We don't know how much water we've
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: taken on. We don't seem to be where we should be.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I think the ship is sinking. I think we need
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: to abandon ship as soon as we see land. And
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: everyone was like, okay, let's do that. And then they
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: were never heard from again. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, that seems like a plausible thing.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The ship, however, has been immortalized in many fictional
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: accounts of its fate, including a 1935 movie starring Bela Lugosi,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: which I have not seen, but now I'm curious about.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And then Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's 1884 short story that
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: also elaborates, embellishes quite a bit on the actual story
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: of what happened on the ship, including making up. I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: think there was like some X in his story, some
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: X slave aboard who kills everybody or something like that. So, yeah,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: there is. And unfortunately, those things, because they were popular,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: permeated the sort of zeitgeist in terms of what people
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: thought may have happened to that ship.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of how it goes.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: Like some form of media makes you believe something that
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: is not necessarily true. I mean, that's kind of how
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: ads work. All right, welcome back. We are talking about
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: ghost ships or specter vessels or whatever you want to
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: call them. The next book, the next boat we're going
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: to talk about is a famous Soviet cruise ship called
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: the MV Lyubov Orlova.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to say it. That sounds as
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: close as you can get. That's as close as I'm
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: going to get. I have such a hard time with Russian. Like, really,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: because it's like so many, like, my mouth doesn't move
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Working on it, though.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: So, famous Soviet cruise ship that served high-class cuisines to
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: wealthy patrons. Despite this, the financial stewardship of the vessel
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: left the crew completely broke. They went unpaid for five months,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: unable to even buy food, which was gifted to them
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: by sympathetic locals when possible. They skimped on upkeep and
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: maintenance and left the ship with faulty alarms.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So the ship just it continued to deteriorate and decay
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: and like more or less fall apart. And it was
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: in worse and worse and worse condition. And eventually it
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: just had to be impounded. So they went and got
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the ship and it was destined to be scrapped. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: so I think they park it somewhere and they're like, OK,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: now we've decided what we're going to do. Let's haul
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it over to this place where we scrap ships, salvage
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: what we can. However, as it was being towed to
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: its scrapping destination, the chain that was pulling the ship snapped.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: They were in some choppy waters. It was just too
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: much stress on the chain, and the chain snapped, and
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the Orlova drifted away. And this is in January 2013,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: so 2013. somewhat recently, particularly compared to these other ships
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: we've been describing. But yeah, once it broke the chain,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: there was nothing they could do. It just kind of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: floated away from them.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, some apocryphal reports by news outlets suggested that
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: while the ship was devoid of humans, it was not
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: devoid of life. Instead, it was populated by rats who,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: after chewing through all organic material and desperately starting to
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: consume each other, it led to headlines about a ghost
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: ship populated by cannibal rats, which is actually kind of scary.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: The ship drifted around until it most likely sank, likely
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: in February or March of 2013.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Cannibal Rats would be an interesting band's name.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. It'd be such a fast band.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just rat squeaking sounds as the vocals. Yeah.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: All go no slow, all rats.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This is another fairly famous one, mostly again because
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: of like... It drifted aimlessly, but then there was this
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: whole story about if you were to board the ship,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you would find a bunch of cannibal rats killing each
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: other and probably desperate for flesh, so might swarm you
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bad news.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: But never actually confirmed, as far as I was able
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to find. It was just something that, like, news headlines
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: made up to sort of sensationalize the story.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Of this poor cruise ship.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because a drifting boat is not as scary as
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: a drifting boat full of, like, creatures.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, if you board it and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: then there's just a mass of fur headed towards you,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: you'd be diving off the side of the ship.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Get away. No thanks. Okay.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: So we've more or less explained some of the conditions
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: under which ships become abandoned and therefore become ghost ships.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: So although we didn't explain any that would have included
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: a pirate attack, that could be a reason. If pirates
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: were to attack a boat, take the crew hostage, steal
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the cargo, and then just leave the boat there. That
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: could be a reason or like how a ghost ship
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: could come to be. They could become stuck somewhere, sometimes
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: in ice. Sometimes they get stuck on some of those
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: seabeds that were just higher than they thought they were
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: and they couldn't get unstuck from them. If there are
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: mutinies from the crew killing off the captain or the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: people in charge and then abandoning ship, fear of the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: ship sinking, people would be like, if the ship is
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: going down, we're getting off. And so then they would leave.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And then financial reasons that it's like, We can't afford
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to take care of this ship anymore, so just let
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: it go. But the name ghost ship seems to have
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: come to be largely because these seem to be animate objects.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: They're out floating around in the water. I mean, they're
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: demonstrating motion, although it's not like driven motion, if you will.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: But there's no living people aboard. And as far as
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: we know, no living creatures either, although there certainly could
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: be in some cases. And then another reason that the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: name ghost was applied to this is likely that one
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: of the characteristic features of a ghost ship is that
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: they appear and then disappear and then reappear at various
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: times and locations, usually kind of far away. And then
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it's like, whoa, there's a ship over there. And then
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's not on any radar. We don't know
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: what it is. And then it's just gone. Or you
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: might even get up close to it. And then it
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: just sort of drifts away when you're not looking and
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: then it's just gone again. But that's sort of why
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the name ghost has been applied to this.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Which leads to one of the other fascinating aspects of
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: ghost ships that lead to the mythologies about ships floating
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: in the sky or above the water and then disappearing.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: So this is a phenomenon called Fata Morgana.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Fata Morgana, yeah.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Fata Morgana? Okay.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: So, Fata Morgana, and this happens when different temperatures of
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: the atmosphere bend light to create distorted images that appear
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: to be inverted or floating well above the horizon, or both.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: There's a cool photo that we'll make sure to share
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: along with the episode that is like, oh, this is really,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: really clear.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Isn't that, isn't that wild? So in the picture,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: so it's such a reliable effect. You can capture it
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: on camera, which has happened many times. We found a
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: picture here, but I mean, if you just look it up,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: you'll be able to find some, it literally looks like
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: there is the top half of a boat. It's basically
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: there's a top half and a bottom half. And there's like,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: it's the boat's top and the bottom like flipped over,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: if you will. Yeah. So it's, it has two tops,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: but one of them's on the bottom. It's like a
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: mirror image. Like if you were to slice it in
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: half horizontally and then create a mirror image of it.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: But anyway, it seems to be floating like way, like
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a hundred feet above the water. Like it's, it's way
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: up there. Yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: It looks like a screenshot of like a Star Wars,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: like a, like a Star Wars image. Like, because like,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: it's like, like the ones, because if you're familiar with
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Star Wars, it's like, it looks like one of those
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: shots where it's like, you know, a ship is in
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: the distance. traveling across like a flat plane and it's
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: like a desert planet. So like it's wavy and like
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: it looks like it's like a ship coming towards the camera.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So it's basically a type of illusion, not
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: unlike a mirage. That's just sort of, again, it's a
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: trick of the light, but very reliably easy to produce.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: And it's most powerfully pronounced on the ocean because Thank you.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you have sort of various layers of the atmosphere that
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: were up above that are now behind in the same
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: line of sight as you as the lower levels of atmosphere.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: And anyway, those different temperatures bend the light in such
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: a way that it creates this effect of making things
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: appear to be floating above the horizon or they appear
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: to be inverted and upside down. So you can imagine...
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: If you were near icebergs or, like, near enough to
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: get this effect from them, they might appear as inverted
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: floating silhouettes, which would kind of look like the sails
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: of a ship. And so it might look like a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: ship floating upside down in the sky. Yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, that makes sense if you believe the Earth
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: is round.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: But, you know, as a Flat Earth podcast, we don't
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: subscribe to that yet.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine. I can't even say that seriously. That's
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: so ridiculous.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, how dare you?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: How dare you? Yeah, yeah.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: By the way, fans, all these years you've been listening
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: to us, surprise, we're conspiracy theorists.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. We are not. Don't take that. Somebody's
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: going to clip that and be like, see, you hear
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: what Shane said? See, we knew it. We knew it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Now, the Fatima Morgana, this idea, this illusion, can also
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: make actual ships appear to be floating way above the water.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: So it's like flying in the air.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: So you can imagine how sailors might have reacted to
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: seeing what appears to be jagged sails of a ship
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: floating above the horizon before the 1900s when most people
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: weren't even literate. And this is possibly what gave birth
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: to the famous tale of the Flying Dutchman.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So although, as I said, we'd mostly be discussing real ships,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and there are many that we didn't discuss that we
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: probably could have. I thought that this amount of content
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: would take up the length of a full episode. We'd
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: be remiss without at least mentioning the fable of the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Flying Dutchman. Now, as the story goes... there was this
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: ship maybe called the Dutchman or something, but the captain
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: either made a deal with the devil or maybe it
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: was already working with the devil. I don't know, but
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: it was given the power to survive some terrible storm
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: in exchange for sailing the world until judgment day and
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: being sort of the, I'm not sure what their purpose
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: would have been or what the devil got out of
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: this exactly, but they wanted, he wanted them to sail
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the world. So that's, that's the story.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe to collect souls. I would imagine that seems like
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: part of the, that's usually the devil's deal. It's like,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: you do this for me. If you bring me people,
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: basically every deal with the devil is just a recruitment opportunity.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: It's an MLM where you're just bringing in more people.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: And really the only person that benefits is the people
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: at the top, which is the literal devil. So, citing
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: the Flying Dutchman is a terrible omen, as most things
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: are on the sea. Like, there's so many, like, it's
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: all bad luck unless it's birds. If you see birds,
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: you're good. Because if birds are like, there's land, right?
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Everything else is just bad luck. I mean, so far
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: as to even say, like, women on ships, they say
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: bad luck. Like, it's a whole, there's like a lot
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: of weird ship lore. That's a lot of fun, but
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: really interesting and also kind of like, oh, like, it's
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: so funny what people make up. So, citing the Flying
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Dutchman as a terrible omen, indicating misfortune and death for
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: the people who crossed paths with it, stories date back
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: to the 1700s, and even the future King of England
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: reported seeing it while surviving the Royal Navy in the 1800s,
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: and sightings continued until the 1940s.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean, it's... Nobody seems to be seeing the,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I guess, Judgment Day came and went. Nobody's been seeing
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the Flying Dutchman around anymore. Right. But yeah, there are many,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: many other stories. There are some that are like, again,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: they're pretty fantastical stories. There's one about this ship called
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the Marlboro, interestingly, that was discovered near Cape Horn in
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: October 2013 with the skeletons of the crew on board.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So they boarded and found just everyone's skeletons laying there.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: There was this boat. This one actually is maybe more realistic.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: In 1884, there was this boat called the Resolvin, which
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: was a merchant brig that they found completely abandoned but
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: was wild. The logbook was posted to within six hours
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: of it having been sighted. The fires were still burning.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: The lamps were still burning. There was an iceberg. So
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: they think that essentially they panicked when the ship became
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: damaged by some ice and they launched a lifeboat to
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: get away. Oh, there was actually one more theory of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste, which is that they maybe tied the
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: life raft to the boat, but then the line snapped
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: from the life raft because they just wanted to make
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: sure the boat wasn't going to sink.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And then they were lost to sea at that point.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe they tried to make it to shore. I mean,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: they would have, I would imagine, but... Yeah, I mean, I.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Feel like there's some basic explanations too for like, especially
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: places where major storms hit, where boats become unmoored.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It makes sense that boats will drift.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: If they're docked and the lines snap because a storm
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: destroys the dock or something like that, you're going to
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: see smaller boats that probably drift constantly. Like I live
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: in a town where that happens, where a hurricane will
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: come through and destroy a dock or destroy the moors
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: and the lines will snap, the boats will drift and
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: people lose their boats all the time.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: That actually was one of the things I meant to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: include in explaining how ghost ships come to be is
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: that there are plenty of instances where like the boat
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: was just docked somewhere and it became untethered from its
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: docking place and then drifted away. Yeah. That's actually a
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: very common reason they think for why some of these
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: ghost ships happen is, is just, Ships floating away. It's
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: also possible like there are people who didn't tie it
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: properly or like didn't anchor it properly. And so it
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: like just drifted away that way. So it's like it
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: didn't even have to be a storm. It could have
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: just been not secured. And then the weather took it away.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's plenty of parsimonious explanations for, like,
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: how ships end up floating and drifting. Like, I can
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: imagine boats are probably also abandoned when there's disease.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Like, and there's enough disease that, like, it's unsafe to
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: remain on the boat. So people, you know, they abandon ship.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Like you said, mutinies. I mean, there's all kinds of
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: stuff that are just, to me, makes so much more
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: sense than just going, this ship appeared out of nowhere.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: But there are, you know, there's always mysterious circumstances. And
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: when there's mysterious circumstances, people fill.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: In the gaps.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I might abandon ships or
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: the ship if it was covered in ads.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back. I think we actually kind of wrapped.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I was going to say when we started, we might
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: not have, it might not be a longer episode. It
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: might be a shorter episode. But when I say that,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: it then turns into a multi-part series. So I decided
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: not to say it. And lo and behold... shorter episode.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So I think that's what I actually have to say
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: for the most part about ghost ships. There are lots
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: of them to go look up, lots of interesting stories,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: and we could have dug into any one of these
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: in a little bit more detail, but this is just
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: kind of a fun way to think about what's happening
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: with these mysterious ghost ships. I think Fata Morgana is
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: like a very interesting phenomenon and explains certainly what some
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: people would have thought of as these like flying ghost ships.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's what we have to say about
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: ghost ships.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think you came in this episode
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: expecting us to talk about, like, haunted ships. That's not
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: quite what we were getting at here. Like, that's not
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: really what the term means. And ultimately, like, that would
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: require us to talk about ghosts and paranormal activity. And
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: I think that that's kind of, like, a little bit
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: different than the scope of what we're trying to talk
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: about here. Like, this is, like, boats adrift under mysterious
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: circumstances or, you know, and I think it can be
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: really fascinating. But I do like the idea of the
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Flying Dutchman being, like, the result of a ship that,
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: just happened to be unmoored or abandoned.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And somebody was like, Ooh, Oh no. You know, like spooky. Sure.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Or like an iceberg. Yeah.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Or an iceberg, which I'm sure happens a lot.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: I would imagine, I would imagine that like the Northern sea,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: which has all those huge swells, there's probably a lot
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: of shipwrecks there. And there's probably a lot of abandoned
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: ships or like, you know, people didn't make it because
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: there's just a lot of, a lot of stuff happening
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: up there.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It would make sense.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: It's scary.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Very scary. Yeah. Well, if you'd like to tell us
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on ghost ships or give us any stories
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: that we missed, you can email us directly at info
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: at WWD WWD podcast dot com or reach us on
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: the social media platforms. And we do look forward to
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: hearing from you. Before we get to the end here,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: we do like to end with some recommendations. We're going
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: to just tell you all about some fun stuff that
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: we like, and then you could do with that information
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: what you will. Yeah, I want to do, I need
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: to finish all my plugs and stuff. So if you'd
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: like to support us, leave us a rating and a review.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You can like and subscribe or tell a friend or
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: make them subscribe for the next few weeks and continue
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: to get that content. You can also support us financially
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: by joining us on Patreon. And if you do that,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: you'll get some bonus content, early episodes, ad-free episodes, and
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I will read your name and the list of people
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: who have been so generous as to support us all
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: these years, because they are the best.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: So, huge shout-out and thank you to Mike M., Megan,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Mike T., Justin, Kim, Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Kiara, and Charlie. Really,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: really appreciate you all, like, just so, so much.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Y'all don't even know.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Couldn't have done this without you. Don't even know. Also,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: special shout out and thank you to my team of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: people without whom I could not make this podcast. Writing
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: and fact checking from Shane and myself. Thank you for
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: recording with me today, Shane.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you for not getting on a ghost ship with me.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson. And the person
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: who does all the audio goods is Justin, who is
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the best and amazing. And we appreciate him so much.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: All hail.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: All right. I think that is all I have to
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: say about that part. Are we ready to transition to recommendations?
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it. Recommendation I'm recommending a, it's like
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: an EP. They call it a single, but it has
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: two tracks on it. So it's a double. So Say
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: A Sin is a band that I really liked. They
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: put out some really good stuff. They had Anthony Green
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: as a singer, then Cove Reber as a singer, and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: then Anthony Green as a singer, and then Cove Reber
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: as a singer. I kind of thought they were done
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: for a long time after Anthony Green joined the band again,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and then they seemed to have just been done. They
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: put out an album several years ago, which was pretty good.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: But Cove Reapers seems to be back, and they put out... Again,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: it's a single, if you will, but it has two
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: tracks on it. One of those tracks is called Just
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Be Honest, and the other one is called Starting Over Again.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I think they both have music videos, and they're just...
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you ever listen to Say It Sin,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: how would you describe this band? They're like.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: I would say they're like, uh, they're very melodic.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: They have like, um, like a little bit of a
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: post-rock feel to it, but like, uh, kind of like, uh,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: more like very like pot.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to say pop punks. I don't
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: think that's what it is.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: I think like a, like a post-rock kind of, if you,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: if you've ever listened to Thursday and it has like
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: some of the pretty delayed guitar parts and some of the,
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: like the, the big choruses and whatnot.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Like, I don't think they sound like Thursday, but I
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: think it's in that world where it's like kind of
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: interesting guitar work.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. They're technical, but they're not like straight ahead fast,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: like you might think of as punk. They're not heavy,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: like you would think of as hardcore. They're somewhere in
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: between those things. Yeah. Anyway, the two tracks are really good.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I've really been enjoying them. They're obviously just two songs,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't take up a huge amount of your time.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: So they're very melodic. There's like some kind of yelling-ish
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: parts of them, but mostly it's just a lot of
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: straightforward singing. And Just Be Honest in particular is received,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I think, pretty... I think both of them have been
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: received really well. So I think that they're really well,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: really good.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: It's, I mean, Samson's great. They're a lot of fun
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: to listen to. I think you can't go wrong checking
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: out these new songs.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: It's good.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I like it. Cool. All right. My recommendation is a
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: series of comic books. It's spooky season. So I'm going
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: to try to make sure that all of my recommendations
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: are spooky adjacent at least.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: And so I'm going to recommend the initial run of
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Mike Mignola's Hellboy series. Hellboy, I think is fascinating because
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: it does take some, it does some really cool things
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: where it takes kind of like paranormal investigative research, government entities,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: and like folklore and, And pulls it all together to
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: create this, like, really interesting world where you've got a
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: half-demon investigating and tracking down Rasputin and other, like, local
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: folklores and, like, different, like, cryptids and stuff like that
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: and kind of pulling it all together. So, like, it's
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of fun. It's not like Hellboy is just
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: showing up to punch people. things there's a lot of
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: depth and i mean it's great it's still really fun
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: but he's like i'm just kidding like genuinely yeah it's
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: unfortunate he's just not hitting things he's like oh yeah
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: got him it's not ron perlman's version of hellboy but
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: i do think that which are good by the way
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: but different it's different than the comics Sure. I think
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: this is the thing where people really like Batman for
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: the action, but they forget that he's like the world's
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: greatest detective.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Hellboy is kind of the same thing. Like the action
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: pieces and like the buildups and the conflicts are really great.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: But Hellboy is a really good investigator and he works
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: for an investigative department. So there's some really cool stuff
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: in there and the art is really cool and really fascinating.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: It's one of the best comic book runs ever. So
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I recommend everybody, if you get a chance, even just
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: read the first one because it is a lot of
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: fun and it's a bunch of cool little short stories
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: and interesting things.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's my recommendation. The first run of Hellboy
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: by Mike Mignola.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. I am very intrigued. I was very much
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: having the thought that I would, I'd probably enjoy this
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. Do you think they have them released
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: in like sort of compendium graphic novel sort of form?
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: They do.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: That's generally how I like to have it is like
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: in the, in like the trade papers is like, so
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I get all of it at the same time. And
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: it's been out long enough that you might even be
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: able to find like free digital access to them.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Oh my. Okay. Yeah.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: So that is say us in the band has a
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: new single with two tracks on it called just to
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: be honest. And then the run of hell boy comics
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: by Mike Mignola are our recommendations, but that is all
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: we have to say about those things. And we said
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: all the other things. So I think we're ready to
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: close this one out.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: All right. This is Abraham.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: This is Shane.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: We're out.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: See ya. You've been listening to why we do what
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: we do.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: going to WWD, WWD podcast.com.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. And we hope you have an awesome day.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Bye.