Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 11 June

Transcript

The Kenny Report | 11 June · The Kenny Report

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Live from the Sky New Center. This is the Kenny Report.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Chris Ullman, pretending to be Chris Kenny
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: for one last night and coming up tonight. Iran and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the US trade blows in the Gulf, the Liberals struggles
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: to deal with the threat of one nation, and good news,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the World Cup kicks off tomorrow. If there is one
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: iron law in interpreting politics, it is this, watch what
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: politicians do and weigh that against what they say. So
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: when the Strait of Humus were shut by war, cutting
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: off one fifth of the world's supply of oil and gas,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: talk of the so called energy transition was shell for
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the only thing that really matters, energy security. The Gulf
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: War is a live political seminar on how the world
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: really works and what fuels it runs on. In this war,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: like the one in Ukraine, energy cis are targets for
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: all combatants, because if you cripple them, you cripple the nation.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: And here let's underline a point, no one is bombing
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: wind turbines. The relative worth of those energy harvests in
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: running a real economy was writ large when the Prime
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Minister immediately pivoted from banging on about wind and solar
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to dashing about the region engaged in diesel diplomacy. Why
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: because the Albanzy government was confronted with the reality of
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: how our nation actually works. Let's take a look. Here's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the story state and federal governments always tell us about energy.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It's the story of the drive to rid the Eastern
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: electricity grid of coal fired generation and replace it with wind, solar,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: storage and the essential backbone of gas. And there is
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a big change now near the halfway mark in the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: bid to get to eighty two percent renewable generation by
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: twenty thirty, a target that we will not hit and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: one that will drive retail power prices ever high. And
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: we've done the easy bit. It all gets harder from here.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: But that's another story. Here's the bigger point. Electricity is
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: only twenty percent of Australia's energy story. To understand how
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: the nation really works, you have to look at all
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: its sources of fuel. You can google this yourself. Search
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: for Australian primary energy statistics. That's the measure of all
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the energy it takes to run the country, and this
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: is what you'll find. Ninety one percent of all the
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: energy Australia uses still comes from coal, oil, and gas
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: ninety one percent, and of that the dominant energy source
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: is oil at forty one percent of all the energy
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: we use, and most of that is the diesel that
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: runs road, transport, agriculture, and mining. So after twenty years
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: on the energy transition, road, wind, solar, and hydro make
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: up just nine percent of this nation's primary energy. When
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: politicians and activists casually claim that we're going to electrify everything,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: this is the problem they have to solve. And given
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: decarbonization only makes sense if every country is doing the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: same thing, how is the world going on the energy
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: transition we keep hearing about, Well, depending on how you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: measure it, the world runs on somewhere between eighty one
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and eighty seven percent fossil fuels, and in twenty twenty
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: four the world burn more coal, oil, and gas in
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a single year than ever before in human history. So
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: there is no energy transition. There is an energy addition.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: We've added a green layer on top of a mountain
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: of coal, oil, and gas. This picture won't change in
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: a hurry. Energy transitions are not the same as switching
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: from a landline to an iPhone. We are burning more
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: wood today than we did in eighteen hundred. This explains
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: why when twenty percent of the fuel the world runs
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: on is cut off, the shock ricochets around the globe.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: The Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pennywong deserve credit for
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: shielding Australia from the full effects of this shock as
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: they roamed around the region shoring up our fuel supplies.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And they did that by bartering hydrocarbons for hydrocarbons, petrol,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: diesel and jet fuel for our supplies of coal and gas.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: But we should never have beaten in the circumstance wherever
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: ninety percent of our liquid fuel is imported. This is
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: a failure of multiple governments over decades. Australian motorists and
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: businesses have also been shielded from the full effect of
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the price spike in petrol and diesel with a harving
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: of fuel excise, cutting the cost of the pump by
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: twenty six cents. A leider that effective subsidy cannot last,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: and the longer the war in the Gulf runs, the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: greater the damage will be. Because the price of oil
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  Speaker 1: and gas drive the price of everything, and Anthony Albanesi
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: knows it.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: We've continued to call for a de escalation because of
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  Speaker 2: the human impact that it will have on people in
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  Speaker 2: the Middle East, but also the global impact it's having
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  Speaker 2: on global inflation and on our economy here, like every
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: economy in the world is being impacted.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: We are a long way from feeling the full effects
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of this war. It will play out in higher fuel prices,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: higher inflation, shortages of the fertilizers needed to grow crops,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: and reduce supplies of other essential feedstocks such as sulfur
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and helium. A nation's focused on energy security are now
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: hunting for reliable sources of oil and gas. Australia could
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: seize this opportunity to become a genuine energy superpower, or
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: it can continue to cling to the myth that it
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: will be a green energy superpower. We can be rich
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: or we can be poor. The choice is ours.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: Well.
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  Speaker 1: Matt Ready is director of energy Ready Advisory and has
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: worked with energy companies around the world, and Matt is
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the world now really focus on energy security rather than
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: the energy transition, very much.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: So, Chris.
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  Speaker 4: Energy policy in Australia has really been focused on three
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: things for the last ten years. Reliability, affordability and sustainability
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: in different degrees, but over the last six months, there's
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: been an inextricable link between national security, energy security, and
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: energy policy. And if we look at one country that
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: is making that very transparently known being the United States,
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: they very clearly link national security with energy security through
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: two pillars which are quite relevant to us here. The
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: first being economic prosperity that is the link between megawatts
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: and GDP, and the second is reducing reliance on third
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: party supply chains for energy use. And I think if
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: we just look at the first one, there is no
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: greater link at the moment, and certainly hasn't been since
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Siemens put a water whirl in the River Surrey in
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: eighteen eighty and began producing electricity productively. There's no greater link,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: particularly with what's coming with data centers and AI and
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: the use of power to generate real productivity down that
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: path as well.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: And when we look at data centers, what are they
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: looking for when they're looking for energy security. They're looking
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: for a constant supply of energy, aren't they. In the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: United States, that's mostly gas.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly right. Data centers really rely on reliable
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  Speaker 4: data center ready sites transmission systems that can bring them
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: the security that they need and also affordable power, and
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: that's really found in a system which is weighted towards
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: heavily reliable twenty four hours a day's supply. And for
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: that reason, many of the US data centers are taking
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: matters into their own hands and actually supplying their own
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: generation within their own property lines. But also we've had
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: one example with Microsoft actually bringing back a moth boled
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: nuclear facility in the United States and paying well over
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: the odds in order to guarantee that supply.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Well. MATT data centers do want to come here. But
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  Speaker 1: what do you think when you see a press conference
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: where a data center owner an AI person standing alongside
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a minister saying this is going to run on one
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: hundred percent wind, solar and batteries. Do you think and
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: what else?
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it's very challenging at the moment with
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: the Australian system which really isn't able to move away
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: from coal at the moment. The German example in twenty
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  Speaker 4: ten twenty twelve was a ninety gigawatts system which became
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: renewable and actually had ninety gigawatts of conventional and ninety
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: gigawatts of renewables, both competing against each other. There is
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: no doubt that over the next twenty to twenty five years,
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  Speaker 4: coal will phase out of the system and it will
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  Speaker 4: need to be replaced by a true twenty four hour solution,
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  Speaker 4: but we certainly aren't in the situation where that's possible
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  Speaker 4: at the moment without a lot of loss of supply.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Interesting to really what I was looking through some US
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: statistics that the highest electricy price is now Maryland rather
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: than California, and that's because the greatest concentration of AI
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: centers is now around Washington, d C. What are data
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: center is likely to do to our power prices?
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  Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting. I think what we will see is
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  Speaker 4: data centers moving in and very quickly co opting a
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: lot of the renewable supply and projects. But we will
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  Speaker 4: see a heavy baseload demand that data centers will bring
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: to the system. The current forecast for data centers are
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: around five gigawatts of new supply in that mid twenty
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: thirties period, but that really is based on what we
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  Speaker 4: currently know of the existing usage. And one of the
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  Speaker 4: interesting things about AI, and many of your viewers will
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  Speaker 4: know this, is that most AI usage is capped by
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: tokens and the capacity that people are allowed to use.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: Once that begins to be loosened and made more flexible,
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  Speaker 4: the demand really will rise and the supply in turn
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: will need to move to fix that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: We saw Chris Bowen, our Energy Minister, doing a happy
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: dance recently when the Australian Energy Regulator came out with
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: a default market officer which is a safety net officer offer,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: which is seeing the price electricity fall marginally this year
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: for some of its users. In fact it rises in
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: some places. But tell us, what is that not telling us?
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: What is that story not telling us about the energy transition.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: It's very interesting, Chris. I mean, if if we're honest
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: about it, and I think we do need to be.
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: Over the last three to four years, power prices have
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: risen by between five and ten percent per year. But
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: there's something that we haven't been counting in this, and
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: that's the two to three billion dollars of assets that
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: households with post tax income are putting on their own roofs.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: And it used to be over the last thirty years
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: that the private sector investors were investing all of the
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: infrastructure that was required and quite aggressively demanding a return
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: of between nine and thirteen percent on equity and a
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: full rate of return on debt plus a premium. Households
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: are doing this themselves at the moment, and announcements that
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: power prices are falling really is just saying that the
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: part of the system that the customers aren't paying for
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: themselves isn't going up as much, and I can understand
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: why people might find that a little challenging.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that we should take into
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: account as well is that as people dip in and
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: out of the grid, they stay on it, but they're
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: not paying their fair share of transmission and distribution. So
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: we're seeing an enormous transfer of wealth from the poor
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: to the rich.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: There is no doubt about that, and I think that's
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: one of the great inequities of the power system at
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: the moment. It's people who can afford to put in
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: solar and batteries, in particular batteries, with the larger subsidies
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: that are being pushed through onto roofs, that is no
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: doubt pushing up the overall power prices, and that it's
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: making it very hard for coal to make money during
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: the day, and it then shadows price, its shadow prices
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: gas at nighttime rings wholesale prices up. But as well
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: as that, we have a situation where those best able
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: to deal with it in our community are able to
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: avoid the prices, and quite simply, it all goes down
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: to people who can't afford to avoid the price hikes
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: that are coming down the pipe.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: About ready, Thank you, thanks Ris. The shooting has started
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: again in the Gulf, with the US launching a fresh
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: wave of strikes on Iran. In its defense Sectory says,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: we'll keep going unless a deal is reached.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: We will hit them hard on our terms, on the
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: targets that improve the environment for US to operate in
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: and undermine the capabilities that Iron wants to have. Marco Rubio,
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: the whole team prepared to make a great deal that
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: would benefit it on they choose not to and as
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: a result, they're going to meet United States Central Command
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: again again tonight.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Parker is adjunct professor at the University of Western
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Australia's Defense and Security Institute and a former Naval officer
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: with experience in the Middle East. Jennifer, so much for
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the ceasefire.
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: Hey, Chris, Yeah, thanks for having me on. Absolutely, We've
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: seen significant escalations this week from Iran's attacks on Israel
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: over the weekend, which feels like a long time ago,
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: Israel's response, I RAN's attack again, and then this between
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: Iran and the US in the last twenty four hours now.
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: This ceasefire has always been a little bit tentative. Ever
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: since the beginning of April. When the ceasefire is announced,
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: We've seen different barrages. You know, UAE Kuwait has been attacked,
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: civilian shipping has been attacked, and occasionally the US has
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: struck Iran, But we haven't seen anything like the intensity
• 13:44
  Speaker 6: of the last twenty four hours since the beginning of April.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: And you've said to me that you think that one
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: of the big flaws in Trump's whole handling of this
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: war is his communication of it. Yeah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: Look, absolutely, I think that if you were a military
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: planner and you looked at the execution of the military campaign,
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: by and large, you would say that SINCOM have conducted
• 14:04
  Speaker 6: a fairly good military campaign, generally with some exceptions and
• 14:08
  Speaker 6: some mistakes. But I think what has prolonged this conflict
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: in many ways is the lack of political discipline. The
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: comments we've seen coming out from President Trump, not only
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: some of the language used around Iran, which is never
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: going to be deemed acceptable, but also the attacks on
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: partners and allies. And I think in that what Iran
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: has seen potentially in the US is a weakness in
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: that lack of political discipline. And I think this has
• 14:35
  Speaker 6: prolonged the negotiations because Iran thinks, well, the longer we
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: draw this out, the more the US experience both international
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: and domestic pressure and a respond in the lack of
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: discipline that they are, the more benefit there is for
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: Iran and Iran's partners in Russia and China.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And of course driving a wedge between the United States
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and Israel.
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: Absolutely. I mean, we saw some recording in the last
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: week about a phone call between President Trump and Benjamin
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: Netanyahu where there were profanities and yelling. Now, of course,
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: when these things eleakes, you always have to question why
• 15:11
  Speaker 6: they're e leaked. Was at least because Trump wanted to
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: seem to becoming hard on net Yahoo or was it
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: a ploy to make Iran think that the US didn't
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: support what Israel was doing. Either way, there are clear
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: fractures evolving in that relationship, and I think one of
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: the key reasons is the objectives of these conflicts have
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: been different for the US than for Israel. Israel's objectives
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: are regime changed within Iran, and they've clearly seen this
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: as an opportunity. The Iranian regime has been weakened in
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: twenty twenty four and twenty five, as had their proxies.
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: Of course, we saw these huge protests in Iran in
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: December where between seven and forty thousand the exact numbers
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: aren't clear, but innocent Iranian civilians were killed on the streets.
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: The US, however, had a much more narrow set of objectives.
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: I know Trump talked about regime change in the first
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: twenty four hours, but very quickly he was pulled into
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: line and they outlined four key military objectives destruction of
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: the nuclear capacity, ballistic missile capacity, Araund's navy, and Aram's proxies. Now,
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: those to be achieved were always going to have to
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: end in negotiations, but they are very different to Israel's
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: regime change objectives.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: What lessons will China draw from this.
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: Book?
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: Lot's being made of this. Some people have said that,
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: you know, China will feel in boldened because international law
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: has been brought into question. To be honest, I don't
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: think international law factors into China's military calculations. We see
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: in the South China Sea and then devonstrations around Taiwan
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: that that's not a key factor. I think the key
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: lesson they'll take away is the emerging weakness between the
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: US and some of its partners and allies, and Trump's
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: tendency to attack publicly his partners and allies when they
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: don't dog exactly what he wants, and even in Australia
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: we experience that now. The reason China will be narrowing
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: in on that is if you think about one is
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: of what is one of the US's ey strengths when
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: it comes to competition with China, it is its network
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: of partners and allies. China does not have the same relationships,
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: and that does strengthen the US. So I think some
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: of those weaknesses and that lack of political discipline that's
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: caused a tax on partners and allies will be something
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: China is watching very closely.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And get for what lesson should Australia draw from all
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: of this?
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: Well, if you haven't heard, Australia is an island nation, right, I.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Mean sometimes forget we will.
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: So we think of ourselves as a beach culture, right,
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: although I go up in Broken Hill, so no beaches
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: around there. But we do think of ourselves as a
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: beach culture. But when it comes to our strategic thinking,
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: we don't think enough about our dependency on the maritime domain.
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: We saw a senator last weekend declare that we don't
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: need to protect sea trade. Will ninety nine percent of
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: our imports and exports come through the maritime domain, where
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: the fifth largest user of shipping. We've seen how easily
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: maritime shipping can be interfered with, and we've actually felt
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: that pressure at our petrol bounses. So we should be
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: thinking about that dependency and looking at how we reduce
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: that through industrial policy, and then how we protect that
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: through maritime and naval capability.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Parker, thank you, thanks so much. Ahead. Alexander Downer
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: cautions the Liberals against panic as one nation surgeres welcome back.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: The Liberal Party is struggling to work out how it
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: should deal with the one nation insurgency, and while it's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: disrupting all parties, it looms as an existential threat to
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the Party of Mensies. The history and the values of
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that party runs through the veins of my next guest,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Australia's longest serving Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer.
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: Welcome, Thank you very much.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Now everyone has a view on what the Liberal Party
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: should do. Your view would be more informed than most.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: What would you do?
• 19:05
  Speaker 8: I think what they are doing Angus Taylor's Budget reply
• 19:10
  Speaker 8: was a very important moment for the modern Liberal Party.
• 19:15
  Speaker 8: They need to articulate what they're about, what they stand for,
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: and if you vote for them, what sort of government
• 19:22
  Speaker 8: you would get. And I think he did that very
• 19:25
  Speaker 8: well in his budget reply and their immigration policy as
• 19:31
  Speaker 8: well as another example of how they need to stake
• 19:35
  Speaker 8: out ground as to what they stand for and do
• 19:40
  Speaker 8: that very clearly. They have also made their position on
• 19:45
  Speaker 8: energy very clear that they no longer support and they're
• 19:50
  Speaker 8: in line with most governments around the world. Actually, they
• 19:54
  Speaker 8: no longer support this dash to net zero because it's
• 19:58
  Speaker 8: so expensive. I mean, I think they're doing all the
• 20:02
  Speaker 8: right things, but it'll take time.
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: It will take a bit of time.
• 20:07
  Speaker 8: But there are two years to go until the next election,
• 20:10
  Speaker 8: so they shouldn't panic.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And do you think that's really important that they should
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: be patient now? Because of all the noise that we're
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: hearing around one nation that seems to be spooking them over.
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: Let's spook some people, and I can remember.
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: Unfortunately, I have a reasonable institutional memory nowadays. I can
• 20:33
  Speaker 8: remember when one nation we're polling twenty twenty three, twenty
• 20:38
  Speaker 8: four percent when we were in government. Actually it was
• 20:44
  Speaker 8: around the I'm trying to remember when it was nineteen
• 20:47
  Speaker 8: ninety eight. Around that time, in early nineteen ninety eight,
• 20:52
  Speaker 8: they were polling about twenty four percent.
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: You get these trends, You do get them in politics.
• 21:00
  Speaker 8: Elections draw near, people do stop and think, not about
• 21:04
  Speaker 8: whether they are angry or whether there's something that's irritating them,
• 21:08
  Speaker 8: but they do think about who would make a good
• 21:11
  Speaker 8: government for the country. They will put the country first.
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: They won't just lash out when it comes to voting time.
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: So you're right, I mean, I.
• 21:20
  Speaker 8: Think the liberal leadership and the Liberal team just need
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: to keep working.
• 21:25
  Speaker 7: At it and be patient and not panic.
• 21:28
  Speaker 8: I mean, you know, it's it's too early to know
• 21:32
  Speaker 8: how what candidates will be running in what seats and
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: how preferences might flow, and so a new count all
• 21:40
  Speaker 8: that two years out.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Well, South Australian MP Tony Passion has floated the idea
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of the Liberals not competing against one nation in some seats,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and the Prime Minister has jumped on that. So let's
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: hear that.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: That says it all about the way that the once
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: mainstream Liberal Party has become just a fringe party, almost
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: giving up two years before an election is held.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: That does seem a little bit like panic, doesn't it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 22:12
  Speaker 8: I can't comment on Tony pac Passion's suggestion that the
• 22:17
  Speaker 8: Liberal Party is Australia's most successful political party since the
• 22:22
  Speaker 8: Second World War and it needs to be.
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: Proud of that record.
• 22:28
  Speaker 8: And as I say, be patient, Just be patient, and
• 22:33
  Speaker 8: just work hard on developing policies and what you stand for.
• 22:40
  Speaker 8: Make sure they get out there in the media, including
• 22:45
  Speaker 8: legacy media as well as new media digital media. Make
• 22:51
  Speaker 8: sure they get out there and sell their messages and
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: explain to the public what they're about. It's the only
• 22:58
  Speaker 8: way for them. I've seen insurgent movements rise and I've
• 23:04
  Speaker 8: seen them fall.
• 23:06
  Speaker 7: They won't fall if you.
• 23:07
  Speaker 8: Don't make it clear what you stand for, they will
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: fall if you do that.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Now you're a former ambassador to the UK, Can I
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: take you to Belfast and that horrific stabbing that we
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: saw in the aftermath of that, the riots on the streets.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: What do you make of that? And how deep does
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: this feeling run right throughout the UK now, the anti
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: immigrant feeling in the UK, Well.
• 23:33
  Speaker 8: People in the UK associate those sorts of incidents and
• 23:37
  Speaker 8: they're coming in thick and fast now, these sort of
• 23:42
  Speaker 8: incidents stabbing.
• 23:44
  Speaker 7: There was the.
• 23:46
  Speaker 8: Very unfortunate incident of Henry Novak a week or so
• 23:52
  Speaker 8: with over a week ago, who was handcuffed by the
• 23:56
  Speaker 8: police after he had been stabbed by a seat. Associate
• 24:00
  Speaker 8: all of this with mass immigration as they see it now.
• 24:04
  Speaker 8: Whether it's as bear or not, whether it's not is
• 24:07
  Speaker 8: a subject of fierce debate, But there's no doubt that
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: in the minds of.
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: The public they associate this with the country taking in
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: far too many migrants. And it's not just pressure on housing,
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: and it's not just.
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: Pressure on schools and the roads and so on, although
• 24:33
  Speaker 8: they are issues. It's the sense in the UK that
• 24:37
  Speaker 8: the migrants are beginning to change the ways of the country,
• 24:41
  Speaker 8: the norms of the country, the sense that they're bringing
• 24:45
  Speaker 8: some of the violence of other parts of the world
• 24:48
  Speaker 8: into the UK. Now, whether this is fair or whether
• 24:52
  Speaker 8: it's not. It's a subject of some debate, but there's
• 24:58
  Speaker 8: no doubt about the public are in that space and
• 25:02
  Speaker 8: they don't just blame the present government, but they blame
• 25:05
  Speaker 8: the fourteen years of Tory Conservative government as well. So
• 25:12
  Speaker 8: it's really leading to substantial upheaval and British politics.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And here it's the same fuel that's fueling the anger here,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: isn't it driving people towards one nation?
• 25:23
  Speaker 8: Well, I don't think there's any doubt that the Bondai
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: massacre of the Jews on the fourteenth of December last
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: year triggered in many people's minds thoughts about immigration.
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: It's the same with.
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: The demonstrations against Israel, these huge demonstrations going right back
• 25:48
  Speaker 8: to what the ninth of October, I think two days
• 25:52
  Speaker 8: after the seventh and ninth of October in front of
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: the Sydney Opera House and these huge demonstrations. A lot
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: of the people in these demonstrations are actually Australian born people.
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: But the public are beginning to think, what are we bringing.
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: In the violence of other parts of the world into
• 26:13
  Speaker 8: our country. How is this happening? And they are associating
• 26:17
  Speaker 8: that with immigration and with large numbers of migrants coming in.
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: So you know, immigration is one of those things that
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: has to be managed very very carefully, not ideologically.
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: And I speak.
• 26:33
  Speaker 8: There as the son of a former immigration minister. I
• 26:37
  Speaker 8: grew up with the issue of immigration, so it needs
• 26:42
  Speaker 8: to be handled more carefully than it's been handled up
• 26:44
  Speaker 8: until now.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Well, Alexander down, I can see you are still on
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the road even in retirement, So safe travels.
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: Thank you very much, Chris.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And ahead of us we go searching for gas. All right,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: One thing is dawn on the federal and state governments.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: The wind and soul dependent electricity grid under construction cannot
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: function without gas, and without abundant, cheap gas, the price
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: of electricity will continue to rise and industry will collapse.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Australia has heaps of gas, but the big problem in
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: getting it has been bad government policy. Amplitude Energy supplies
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: gas for domestic and industrial use in Southeast Australia from
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: its operations in the Gippsland and Way basins. And I'm
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: joined by Chief executive Jane Norman. And Jane Norman, are
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you sensing a change in the atmospherics around gas? When
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: it comes to talking to governments.
• 27:41
  Speaker 9: Thanks Chris. Absolutely, there's been a real swing both at
• 27:45
  Speaker 9: the federal and state level and government and an understanding
• 27:48
  Speaker 9: of why gas is needed. That's partly what you were
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: out learning earlier on the show. The role of gas
• 27:54
  Speaker 9: in supporting residential gas demand. There is over two million
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: households in Victoria, that's eight and ten households that are
• 28:02
  Speaker 9: using gas for hot water, heating and cooking. It plays
• 28:05
  Speaker 9: a big role in industrial demand, both as a feedstock
• 28:09
  Speaker 9: and industrial heat which can't be electrified, and I think
• 28:13
  Speaker 9: there's a growing appreciation of that in government. And then
• 28:16
  Speaker 9: there's a growing role in power generation today that sits
• 28:19
  Speaker 9: at around sixteen percent, but that's expected to increase as
• 28:23
  Speaker 9: gas use increases with coal being retired.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: So they're saying the right things, but what are governments doing.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Are they making it easier to actually get gas?
• 28:34
  Speaker 9: We haven't seen the follow through in terms of new
• 28:37
  Speaker 9: policy support for gas. There's been some gazettels, but we
• 28:41
  Speaker 9: haven't seen streamlining of approvals or an expediting of approvals
• 28:45
  Speaker 9: which would actually bring guts to market faster. And that's
• 28:48
  Speaker 9: what we're hoping to see.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: And what about the domestic gas reservation policy which the
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: government has proposed, and the idea of that is that
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: we have enough gas and enough gas at a good
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: price on the eastern coast of Australia to make sure
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: that we function properly. Is that going to work or
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: help or hinder your operations?
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 29:09
  Speaker 9: Look at at this stage the consultation process for the
• 29:12
  Speaker 9: draft policy is being undergone. It's unclear, but it doesn't
• 29:18
  Speaker 9: look like that policy encourages new domestic gas supply. It
• 29:22
  Speaker 9: doesn't encourage energy security or bringing prices down in the
• 29:26
  Speaker 9: long term. We have really three key concerns about it. One,
• 29:30
  Speaker 9: it's not incentivizing new gas supply through long term contracts. Secondly,
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: at risk pushing the market to lerg imports over the
• 29:38
  Speaker 9: long term if domestic gas is not viable. And thirdly,
• 29:43
  Speaker 9: it's not encouraging the investment we need in domestic demand
• 29:46
  Speaker 9: from both Australian companies and the foreign investors in this sector.
• 29:50
  Speaker 9: So it's not in line with what the government's saying,
• 29:53
  Speaker 9: which is at once, more gas for energy security and
• 29:56
  Speaker 9: energy affordability, isn't.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: The problem we've got here is that everything is a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: PA policy. I mean, the real issue that we had
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: was that we've got gas in Victoria, and we've got
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: gas in New South Wales, but there was effectively a
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: ban on it and now we're trying to fix that.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 30:11
  Speaker 9: It's a very difficult approval environment, regulatory environment. There's overlapping
• 30:17
  Speaker 9: policies and approvals. What we would love to see is
• 30:21
  Speaker 9: a streamlining of approvals. There's plenty of gas in offshore Victoria.
• 30:25
  Speaker 9: There's only over two thousand pedals of gas discovered reserves
• 30:29
  Speaker 9: and resources that can be brought to market through existing infrastructure.
• 30:33
  Speaker 9: And the best gas for the market is the local gas.
• 30:35
  Speaker 9: It's the lowest cost, the lowest emission gas, and it
• 30:39
  Speaker 9: gives us energy security at a time when we're already
• 30:42
  Speaker 9: reliant on imported liquid fuels. We don't want to become
• 30:45
  Speaker 9: reliant on LNG imports. And if we move away from
• 30:48
  Speaker 9: domestic supply, which is roughly ten dollars contract price today
• 30:53
  Speaker 9: to LNG imports, we couldn't be looking at prices of
• 30:55
  Speaker 9: over thirty five dollars a gigadul So that's more than
• 30:58
  Speaker 9: a threefold increase in the price of gas.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: And that's the most extraordinary policy failure of all. Isn't
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: it that we are in the process of building liquefied
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: natural gas import terminals in both New South Wales and Victoria,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: for which we will have to pay the import price
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: because we don't want to use the gas that sits
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: underneath our feet.
• 31:21
  Speaker 9: Yeah, look at we'd open Australia consumers up to the
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: international market. The supply demand dynamics internationally, as I just said,
• 31:30
  Speaker 9: it would put prices today up by more than threefold,
• 31:33
  Speaker 9: and that creates a huge risk to manufacturers and to households.
• 31:37
  Speaker 9: And when we've got so much gas in this country,
• 31:39
  Speaker 9: it's really about getting it to market and giving ourselves
• 31:43
  Speaker 9: that energy advantage and energy security. And look, there's a
• 31:46
  Speaker 9: huge opportunity to do that. There's a know how, there's
• 31:49
  Speaker 9: the infrastructure, and there's the resources in the ground. We
• 31:52
  Speaker 9: just need the positive signals for investment.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: And given you're not getting those, are we going to
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: miss an enormous opportunity because a huge hydrocarbon whole is
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: just to open up in the world. Twenty percent of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the world supply of liquvide natural gas is now trapped
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: behind the strata for moves. People will be reticent to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: really go back to that marketplace. They're looking for new
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: ones that could be Australia. Is it likely to be Australia.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:17
  Speaker 9: Look, this is a fantastic opportunity for Australia not just
• 32:20
  Speaker 9: to secure our own energy domestically, but also to increase
• 32:24
  Speaker 9: and backfill our lergy plants. We can stabilize and influence
• 32:29
  Speaker 9: those Asian relationships, the defense alliances we have, the strategic
• 32:32
  Speaker 9: alliances we have through the export of energy, and we've
• 32:35
  Speaker 9: seen how important those energy exports have been to the
• 32:39
  Speaker 9: liquid fuel security we have today. But in terms of
• 32:42
  Speaker 9: domestic gas it's a massive advantage to us. We have
• 32:45
  Speaker 9: spot price on the weekend in Adelaide was four dollars
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: a gigadul and the international price equivalent is thirty five
• 32:51
  Speaker 9: dollars a gigogul. So that tells you how important it
• 32:54
  Speaker 9: is to have your own domestic supply. Plus all the
• 32:57
  Speaker 9: jobs and tax benefits the industry. Our plants are in
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: rural Victoria. These are well paid jobs with lots of
• 33:05
  Speaker 9: knock on benefits to those people. Plus there's over two
• 33:08
  Speaker 9: hundred and seventy five thousand people in Victoria alone employed
• 33:12
  Speaker 9: in gas manufacturing jobs. So it's really important to keep
• 33:15
  Speaker 9: gas reliable affordable for those jobs as well, and.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: We have to underline that point, Dwie, that gas is
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: powering industry and it can't be easily replaced and we
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: need that price to be as competitive as possible.
• 33:28
  Speaker 9: That's right. And in the area we operate in in
• 33:30
  Speaker 9: the Otway Basin, around a quarter of Australia's dairy comes
• 33:33
  Speaker 9: from that region and gas is used to create milk
• 33:36
  Speaker 9: products for hygiene, cleaning, the equipment and so on, so
• 33:41
  Speaker 9: it's really important to our local region. But also gases
• 33:44
  Speaker 9: making bricks, cement, paper, glass pipes, all the things that
• 33:51
  Speaker 9: go into our construction sector at a time when the
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: housing market is desperate for new supply, as well as
• 33:57
  Speaker 9: providing food security. So ultimately at the backbone of our
• 34:02
  Speaker 9: construction sector and food security and plays an incredibly important role.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Danielman, thank you, thank you. Soon the World Cup kicks
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: off tomorrow morning. How will the soccer Ruse fare.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: The fifth of World Cup kicks off tomorrow morning and
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: the hype around a young soccer rus team continues to grow.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: The site is due to take on Turkia this Sunday
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and joining me now is sports broadcaster Mark Robinson and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Mark it doesn't really matter what code you follows. This
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: is the biggest show on earth, isn't it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 10: No, I no doubt about that. And the World Cup
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: units all of Australians. And just go back through the
• 34:44
  Speaker 10: last twenty forty fifty years. When Australia plays in the
• 34:47
  Speaker 10: World Cup. In your night's the country turkey on Sunday.
• 34:51
  Speaker 10: People in pundits in America have already written Australia off,
• 34:55
  Speaker 10: but not just in stoccer. But Australia proves that we
• 34:58
  Speaker 10: punched well above a and the beauty of the World
• 35:03
  Speaker 10: Cup being the biggest show sports show on the planet.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: We've got a young team.
• 35:09
  Speaker 10: People who follow soccer closely will know a lot of
• 35:12
  Speaker 10: these players.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: People who don't follow soccer closely.
• 35:16
  Speaker 10: Will not fall in love, but they will get a
• 35:18
  Speaker 10: glimpse of this new soccer young lineup and legacies will
• 35:24
  Speaker 10: be made.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: That's what happens at the World Cup. Legacies be made.
• 35:27
  Speaker 10: And tell you wide of Australia not to have a
• 35:29
  Speaker 10: turkey on Sunday.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: You watch the temperature go up.
• 35:33
  Speaker 10: Every news bulletin, every newspaper.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: Radio will be talking about the.
• 35:39
  Speaker 10: Soccer rus So you rate our chances now, I don't know,
• 35:44
  Speaker 10: we don't know, I don't know the Canse.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I certainly don't know, no, but I don't want.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: To say I don't know anything.
• 35:52
  Speaker 10: A lot of the soccer rugs players play overseas, and
• 35:54
  Speaker 10: if you're following the overseas.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Competitions you see them. There's a few issues. I mean,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: for he plays in the Premier League. He didn't train
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: or read today.
• 36:05
  Speaker 10: He didn't train, so I reckon he will get up
• 36:07
  Speaker 10: and train before the match on Sunday. So we certainly
• 36:11
  Speaker 10: need him to need him to play. But we're going
• 36:15
  Speaker 10: against the best in the world. We've got a population
• 36:17
  Speaker 10: of twenty five million and most of the country, not most,
• 36:20
  Speaker 10: the big countries have got hundreds of not hundreds of
• 36:23
  Speaker 10: men and one hundred million people to choose wrong. So
• 36:26
  Speaker 10: we'll give it our best shot and if we get
• 36:28
  Speaker 10: that first wing, Chris, you watch, mate, it will explode.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Off, you know, mate. One of the things that I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: love about watching a World Cup is that I've got
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: English mates since watching their sense of excitement grow every
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: year that while before they've kicked the ball, that their
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: hope always you know, blooms eternal in their hearts, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: then they have their hopes crushed. Is it likely to
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: go the same way.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: That's nasty, nasty from you.
• 36:54
  Speaker 10: In the English, you know all from the European Championships
• 36:57
  Speaker 10: at the World Cup. It's just they can't get it done.
• 37:01
  Speaker 10: They just cannot get it done. But we will follow
• 37:04
  Speaker 10: England closely because again I wish them well.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I'm joking.
• 37:07
  Speaker 10: Yeah, a lot of the Sockers supporters follow English Premier
• 37:11
  Speaker 10: League teams, so we will follow them.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: And I think, I don't know. I think I think
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: the Irish got in. They did, and so we'll follow
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: all them. But yeah, it's a terrific event.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: And speaking of the English, of course, we've seeing the
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: English cricket captain now has been punted because of always
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: an incident in a nightclub, and Joe Root has taken over.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Do you think that this is the end of the road.
• 37:35
  Speaker 10: I'd need to see and be told the full extent
• 37:39
  Speaker 10: of Ben Stokes involvement.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: He was there, he was out drinking. Now I don't
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: know if he was drunk or not.
• 37:45
  Speaker 10: That's up to others, to others to determine my understanding.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: Hi wasn't what I've read, He wasn't in the puncher.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: A rugby union player clocked one of his he didn't.
• 37:57
  Speaker 10: He went to clock a teammate, but he ended up
• 37:59
  Speaker 10: hitting a security security guy more better in a nightclub
• 38:04
  Speaker 10: after midnight. But he's not playing in the next test,
• 38:07
  Speaker 10: so he's been stood down for the next test.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: In the step, they've had a few issues in the
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: last couple of years. We had the insto New Zealand
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: before they got to Australia.
• 38:17
  Speaker 10: They went on holidays during the between the tests and
• 38:21
  Speaker 10: everyone was accusing him of that because they got they
• 38:23
  Speaker 10: got a hiding maybe things. Trigger Board is coming down
• 38:26
  Speaker 10: heavy on that.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: He's got history, but you need to know the full story.
• 38:31
  Speaker 10: I'm not going to get demn a guy for being
• 38:32
  Speaker 10: in a pub and a fight starts around him and
• 38:35
  Speaker 10: he's mates in it.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, what's he supposed to do? Stand there?
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: And the old days it was won in all in
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: mate look And finally in the AFL the gather Round
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: is set to stay in South Australia until the end
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty nine. It's a great event too.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: Isn't it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's no surprise. I mean it's no surprise that
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: at like got the extension.
• 38:54
  Speaker 10: And I don't know if you follow football at all,
• 38:56
  Speaker 10: Krisory or a rugby league man. But the the Gatherer
• 39:01
  Speaker 10: has just beurened a tremendous success following on from the
• 39:03
  Speaker 10: rugby league tournament they have up in Brisbane and.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: We should have more. But Adelaide didn't deserve to lose this.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: They deserve to keep it. They've done a terrific job
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: promoting it. They've done a.
• 39:17
  Speaker 10: Terrific job just getting tens and hundreds of thousands of
• 39:20
  Speaker 10: fans to come in Adelaide. So three year extension and
• 39:24
  Speaker 10: then we'll see where it goes from there.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Well, Mark, go the Soccerus and I hope that you're
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: right that we do see a victory there and the
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: nation errupts, enjoy and we and we move on. So
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: thanks very much mate, good luck go to soccers or
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: coming up Crime in Victoria and one Nation's viral via
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: the Liar Fundraiser. We convene the Thursday Panel. Welcome back. Well,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: let's convene our Thursday panel with Mark Nicholson from step
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Mate Studios and the Dai Telegraphs, Tim Blair and gentlemen.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: The fire the Liar campaign by Paul en Hanson has
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: gone off like a packet of red heads in the
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: sun after the Labor Party, of course, was trying to
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: raise money from its membership, and then one nation counted
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: by raising its own money. Now gone beyond I hear
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: mark two million bucks. They were aiming for one million.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: It's outrageous.
• 40:17
  Speaker 11: I spoke to James Ashby on the morning that it
• 40:19
  Speaker 11: launched and it was at seventy eight thousand dollars at
• 40:22
  Speaker 11: the time and he was tickled pink. So I can
• 40:25
  Speaker 11: tell you right now James Ashby and the whole party
• 40:28
  Speaker 11: doing backflips seeing what this result is in. I am too,
• 40:32
  Speaker 11: to be honest this as a general punter, I am
• 40:35
  Speaker 11: so excited about what this means. I'm fired up. This
• 40:38
  Speaker 11: might be the coolest thing I've ever seen because it's
• 40:40
  Speaker 11: people who are willing to give up one of the
• 40:42
  Speaker 11: most precious resources at the moment, money, and they're seeing
• 40:45
  Speaker 11: it as an investment and one that's going to pay
• 40:47
  Speaker 11: a dividend that won't get taxed at forty seven percent,
• 40:51
  Speaker 11: and it might actually bring some real change to this
• 40:54
  Speaker 11: country and has brought a smile on my face.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: It was the first time I've.
• 40:56
  Speaker 11: Ever donated where I smiled because it was the promele
• 40:59
  Speaker 11: ministic can call a negative and divisive and he can
• 41:02
  Speaker 11: call it a lie, he can do it all these things.
• 41:03
  Speaker 11: But I was smiling from ear to ear when I
• 41:05
  Speaker 11: donated that money. I was so happy, And it's a
• 41:08
  Speaker 11: really positive thing, optimistic thing.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I was pumped up.
• 41:11
  Speaker 11: So I'd encourage anyone to have a crack.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Tim Isn't that the thing about it too? It shows
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: also that you know, the Liberal Party will be very
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: flat footed and the One Nation One Nation has a
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: sense of humor and a good sense of timing.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 41:23
  Speaker 12: Absolutely, this wins on so many levels. But do we
• 41:26
  Speaker 12: really want to go in this path of endless donations? Mean,
• 41:29
  Speaker 12: first of all, we have Labour saying, you know, give
• 41:32
  Speaker 12: us twenty seven dollars. Then we have One Nation saying
• 41:34
  Speaker 12: give us twenty nine dollars to hear further of my
• 41:37
  Speaker 12: thoughts about this subject, sending thirty one dollars care of
• 41:40
  Speaker 12: Sky News. I mean I could hit three o ham
• 41:44
  Speaker 12: over hour for a bedding like One Nation. Yeah, it's
• 41:47
  Speaker 12: it might be the way to go for all of us.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well we can we can launch nine alongline campaign.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Of course, the Prime Minister cast doubt on it, and
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: now that there's been an ordered apparently they say they've
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: got two million dollars and I guess we'll see it
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: when the billboards appear.
• 42:01
  Speaker 12: Yes, this is another sign I think of the Prime
• 42:05
  Speaker 12: Minister has rattled. He didn't expect this line of attack.
• 42:07
  Speaker 12: I don't think any of us did, to be fair,
• 42:10
  Speaker 12: and he's not able f leyd to cope with it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 12: I think as well. When Anthony Albanezi is saying that
• 42:17
  Speaker 12: he's doubting the level of support and so on, I
• 42:20
  Speaker 12: don't think he's measuring it properly. I think it's all
• 42:22
  Speaker 12: a bit confusing for labor and the higher ups. They're bewildered.
• 42:25
  Speaker 12: This is working on so many levels, not just financially.
• 42:28
  Speaker 12: He might be the smallest part of it. As a
• 42:30
  Speaker 12: political experiment, it's far more powerful than that.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mark, the subtle political system doesn't seem to be
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: able to cope with this at all.
• 42:40
  Speaker 11: No, and that's why they're shaking in their boots, Risot.
• 42:43
  Speaker 11: They cannot they cannot fathom that the people can rise
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: up like this and support it, and more people are
• 42:49
  Speaker 11: getting engaged with politics. It's it's an amazing thing to see.
• 42:53
  Speaker 11: And I'm telling you as well, I've seen the report.
• 42:55
  Speaker 11: I've been sent the report. It's one hundred percent legit
• 42:58
  Speaker 11: this website and the the Prime Minister is about to
• 43:01
  Speaker 11: be red faced once again.
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: I can't wait.
• 43:04
  Speaker 11: Honestly, this is like this is like a delicious meal.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Keep serving it.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Paul and Hanson had a running with a journalist yesterday.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Let's take a look at that.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Why didn't you.
• 43:14
  Speaker 13: Fly Gena's jets? Did you fly cattle class? Did you
• 43:24
  Speaker 13: fly caddle class?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not answering your stupid questions, right, Let's get some
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: credibility about you as a journalist and learn respect as well. See,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: one thing that journalists should probably learn is that the
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: more that they attack Paul Enhans and the more her
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: supporters like it.
• 43:45
  Speaker 12: Absolutely, It's unimaginable. You cannot conceive a journalist asking the
• 43:50
  Speaker 12: same questions any journalists having that same hostile attitude towards
• 43:53
  Speaker 12: a conventional politician or a teal or a green they're
• 43:58
  Speaker 12: at least given a bit of some grace. But Hansen
• 44:03
  Speaker 12: is still idiotically treated as a marginal player when she
• 44:07
  Speaker 12: isn't and her party isn't. And as I wrote earlier
• 44:10
  Speaker 12: this week, mate, the more that these people attack her,
• 44:13
  Speaker 12: the bigger her profile becomes and then for some reason,
• 44:17
  Speaker 12: Australians hate snobs and they hate people who are just unfair.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Mark. She's been taking very seriously. I saw her at
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: a conference with a whole lot of energy producers in
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Adelaide and the hall was full. People are now taking
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson extremely seriously.
• 44:34
  Speaker 11: Oh, she's a serious person. She's a very serious person,
• 44:37
  Speaker 11: as you could see in that exchange as well. She's
• 44:40
  Speaker 11: not mucking around. And that's why I actually I've taken
• 44:44
  Speaker 11: on a different approach. I encourage every journalist to keep
• 44:47
  Speaker 11: doing stuff like that because it's like sport to me.
• 44:50
  Speaker 11: Slow that down. I want to watch it, frame by frame.
• 44:53
  Speaker 11: You can see the moment her heart, little heart, little
• 44:55
  Speaker 11: liberal heart breaks when Pauline chucks a barb at her
• 44:58
  Speaker 11: and gives her a spray. They I've been on the
• 45:01
  Speaker 11: end of a Pauline Hanson spray's it sucks. So it's
• 45:04
  Speaker 11: a joy to watch someone else get one, and I
• 45:06
  Speaker 11: want to see more.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: People get them.
• 45:08
  Speaker 11: But she's a serious person.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: She's not mucking around. A teenager in Victoria faces life
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: behind bars for a home invasion where he allegedly filmed
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: a mum being terrorized. Now this is a test of
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Victoria's adult time for violent crime laws. What do you think?
• 45:24
  Speaker 12: This is one of the great dilemmas, isn't it? You know,
• 45:26
  Speaker 12: child underage. No Australian wants to see kids subject to
• 45:30
  Speaker 12: adult imprisonment laws. We're kind of, you know, a bit
• 45:34
  Speaker 12: you know, squishy like that. We like kids. But this
• 45:37
  Speaker 12: kid is broken. You go through the history of all
• 45:40
  Speaker 12: the crimes, there's Jail's the only thing you can do.
• 45:46
  Speaker 12: At a certain point, you've got to give up on
• 45:48
  Speaker 12: rescuing the kid and say rescue society, rescue the people
• 45:51
  Speaker 12: around this kid. And I think it's a positive outcome,
• 45:57
  Speaker 12: if you like, to an incredibly negative situation mark.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: This kid had hundreds of offenses listed against tim, so
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: this is something that has been routine, not this kind
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: of incident, but others.
• 46:13
  Speaker 11: You're right, mate, And it's three hundred and eighty eight charges.
• 46:16
  Speaker 11: I think he'd been granted bail fifty times and the
• 46:20
  Speaker 11: police prosecutor had to literally beg the magistrate to deny
• 46:25
  Speaker 11: bail this time because maybe this time he might go
• 46:28
  Speaker 11: out there and reoffend his crime, or his alleged crime
• 46:31
  Speaker 11: is horrific. What he did What really really scares me
• 46:36
  Speaker 11: is that this hearing lasted more than fifteen seconds. My
• 46:40
  Speaker 11: little spill then lasted fifteen seconds. I would not have
• 46:42
  Speaker 11: given the kid bail on the back end of that.
• 46:45
  Speaker 11: There's not a chance. The whole justice system is completely rotten.
• 46:48
  Speaker 11: It's all the way through it. November could not come quicker.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Tim, The National Party is calling for kids to sing
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: the national anthem once a week. Do you like this idea?
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 46:57
  Speaker 12: I do, mainly because it's not me being for to
• 47:00
  Speaker 12: do it and everyone who's spared that horrible faith. I
• 47:04
  Speaker 12: think also kids don't mind. They don't mind us sing along. Historically,
• 47:08
  Speaker 12: judging by what I know from kids, they all like,
• 47:10
  Speaker 12: you know, all the stupid TV shows, They love repetition,
• 47:13
  Speaker 12: So you know, I think I think it's a good
• 47:15
  Speaker 12: thing and it's not a bad song, you know, all
• 47:17
  Speaker 12: things concerned. And if, as we were talking earlier in
• 47:21
  Speaker 12: earlier segments about the World Cup, if Australia does flute
• 47:25
  Speaker 12: the odd one or two against Turkey and others, the
• 47:27
  Speaker 12: national lanthe will be ready there. They'll remember even the
• 47:29
  Speaker 12: second verse.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Mark Nicholson, should we set a test and people have
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: to start with the second verse, beneath our glorious Southern Cross,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: we toil with old well done? Yeah, can you finish that?
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I'd fail already.
• 47:43
  Speaker 11: You've scared the hell out of me.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: You've scared the hell out of me.
• 47:45
  Speaker 11: We should sing it every day, though, that's the thing.
• 47:48
  Speaker 11: Every morning we should be singing the national anthem. It's
• 47:50
  Speaker 11: a good thing, it is.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: The terrifying thing is that when I did it, it
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: was God saved the Queen.
• 47:55
  Speaker 12: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: And I thought they were singing Latin for years. I
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: was singing into victorious because there was Latin in Mass
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: and there was always words I didn't understand.
• 48:06
  Speaker 12: It does sound pretty good that later, isn't it.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: It's an improvement.
• 48:10
  Speaker 12: It's a good Catholic version of it, a Catholic alternative.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Should we go out with? Should we go out with
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: a little verse of it?
• 48:19
  Speaker 12: With you guys?
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 48:20
  Speaker 12: Oh, hang on, I think the sounds dropping out.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Well, that's that's where the test ends for this week.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: But thank you both for your participation. You'll get a
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: participation you'll get a participation certificate. Thank you, great, Thanks Mark,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: thank you, Tim Blair. Well, Peter Kretlen is up next.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: And that's it. For me for now. Chris Kenny will
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: be back back next week, so good night and take care.