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The Beast, the Lamb, and Who Gets Your Allegiance · The Madison Church Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: My name is Randy Nye.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I'm the lead pastor at Brew City Church in downtown Milwaukee area.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Brew City sends their love.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: They're interested that there's churches like ours in the state of Wisconsin.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: How about that?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We love partnering together with you.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We love knowing that you guys exist and I love being here.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: My family is here.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I have my wife, sarah, and then four kids.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say their names and embarrass them, but my daughter I will embarrass.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: It's the great joy of my life.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: One of the great joys of my life is embarrassing my kids, not sorry.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: And my daughter is going to be moving to Madison in less than two months and going to UW-Madison.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: So let's, yes, get one of whatever.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, do you mind if I pray?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Is that all right, god?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I'm grateful for the church.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I'm grateful that we get to that there's all these expressions of your body, of what it means to follow you and be your people, jesus, of what it means to follow you and be your people, jesus.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm grateful that I can drive an hour west in Wisconsin and be with the people who are called by name and who follow you, jesus, and who are trying to take you and your gospel and this idea of being the church seriously.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm grateful that I get to be shaped and formed by the church and all her beauty and diversity and complexity, that my family gets to be the same thing, formed and shaped by you and by your bride, jesus, and I just ask that you would continually call us to yourselves, jesus, continually call us to yourselves, jesus.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: There's so many voices in this world calling for our attention, demanding our allegiance.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I ask that you, jesus, would break through all of those voices and call our attention and faithfulness and allegiance to you, the Lamb, who was slain, who has conquered all things.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: It's in your name, jesus, that we pray.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So I grew up in a very normal evangelical home.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I was born in 1978.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So through the 80s and 90s.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I grew up in a sheltered Christian home where I had a Lutheran dad and a Baptist mom, so I knew all the hymns.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I was a church kid.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I went to Lutheran grade schools, but my family had a very evangelical feel and I remember I have a strong memory of sitting on my parents' bed one day and a family member had given me this newsletter from a pastor in New York City and this family member said you need to read this.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: We all need to read this.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: And by newsletter I don't mean an email newsletter, I mean like a trifold that you had to open it up and read it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: And this newsletter, basically, was telling me that the end of the world was imminent.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: One of those newsletters have you ever read one?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: It was telling me all the things that were about to happen.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And this pastor that wrote this newsletter that my family member said you have to read this and remember I'm 13 years old thereabout I remember sitting on my parents' bed by myself reading this newsletter which was telling me that the world is going to end, how it was going to end.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: It was going to end after a bunch of tribulation for the church.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Things are going to get really bad for Christians.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: A great persecution is going to happen in all the things.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: And I remember it so clearly because I was so terrified, I was not knowing whether I should believe this, but I've trusted the family member who gave it to me, and this person who wrote the newsletter was speaking and saying the reason that I'm telling you and forecasting and prophesying and predicting these events in the end of the world, in the end times, is because it's clearly marked out where In the book of Revelation right, it's all right there In plain English to be seen.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It said and it terrified me as a 13-year-old who felt like I had a lot of life to live.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I wasn't excited about this impending end of the world.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was within the next like one to three years.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the particulars, but I remember that feeling inside of me.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I don't remember the particulars, but I remember that feeling inside of me.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: See, the book of Revelation has been used in all the ways that terrify Stephen when a guest pastor comes and talks about it.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: The book of Revelation is is there a book in the Bible that's been abused more than the book of Revelation?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Is there a book of the Bible that has repulsed more people away from the church and away from the scriptures and away from Christianity, the person of Jesus, more than the book of Revelation?
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Also, the book of Revelation has made a lot of people a lot of money.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Anybody read the Left Behind series.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: You can admit it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Forgiveness is alive and well in Jesus.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: There's all like.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: The Left Behind series sold millions of copies, turned into a really ill-fated movie series.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry if there's any fans here of Kirk Cameron, but it's not just the Left Behind series, I mean.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: There's this cottage industry of end times, prophecies and predictions that come across very, very confidently, that have traumatized many other 13-year-olds, just like myself.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: And so when it comes to the church and you think about the book of Revelation, you either love it or hate it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Usually, if you love it, that means you probably treat it kind of like astrology or a horoscope, reading the signs to see when the end times are coming.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: And man, I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone by saying this, or if that's not you and you're like me and you were traumatized in some ways by the book of Revelation.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe you want nothing to do with the book of Revelation.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: It's that book of the Bible that you just kind of leave over to the side.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I'll leave it alone if it leaves me alone.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So why am I talking about the book of Revelation?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: As I've been occupying space and living in this world for the last, for this last time, for this last season of life right now, in our world, in our nation, I've been thinking about the book of Revelation and I know that's a dangerous thing for me to say, because many of the say, because many of the quote-unquote prophets who talk about the book of Revelation say something exactly like I just said.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about the book of Revelation lately, but I want to tell you really truly, I've been thinking about the book of Revelation as I've seen what's happening in our world.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I think the book of Revelation has something to teach us.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I think the book of Revelation has an invitation for us as a church today, and not just today, but I think the book of Revelation wants to form and shape us and tell us how to live in the midst of the world that we live in today.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: See, I wound up falling in love with the book of Revelation when I actually started studying it and I found that there is power and life and beauty and revolutionary goodness in the book of Revelation If we're actually listening and if we actually pay attention to good biblical scholars.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: So let me just contextualize the book of Revelation just a brief moment.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I'm talking like real flyover type contextualization.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Just who wrote it?
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Who is it for?
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: When it was written?
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: That kind of thing?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: All right, real quick.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So the book of Revelation was written by who?
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: We know the guy's name was John John the Revelator, if we're going to be fancy about it, john, saint John was exiled in the Isle of Patmos and the Spirit of God gave John this apocalyptic vision.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about what apocalyptic means in a moment.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: But this guy, john John the Revelator, we don't know exactly who he was.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Some think that John was the John the beloved disciple, the same guy who maybe wrote the gospel of John.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: We don't know if those two were the same person either, but maybe the guy who wrote the gospel of John also wrote the book of Revelation.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Some scholars think that's the case.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Other scholars think it's a totally different John.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: John was a very common name in the ancient Near East.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: So we don't know exactly.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: But this John the Revelator, who wrote the letter of Revelation to these seven churches which there might have been, particularly seven churches in Asia Minor that were literally written to Seven is also a very, very symbolic and rich number in the book of Revelation, if you know the book of Revelation.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: So John, this guy, receives this vision to give to the church in the specific time-space moments, and the people that this book was written to were the early church.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It was written in the later half, later part of the first century in the 90s-ish, and the guy who was the ruler of the world of the Roman Empire at this point his name is Domitian.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: We think Domitian ruled probably a little bit more than a decade after Nero and if you know church history at all, you know Nero was really awful to the early church I'm talking.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Nero was consumed with hatred for Jesus and the church and wanted to wipe the church out.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: It was a nightmare time to be the church to follow Jesus in the Roman Empire when Nero was Caesar.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Now, a couple Caesars later, domitian is the Caesar in the 90s-ish and he's kind of picking up where Nero left off.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: He's persecuting the church again.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: So the reality, the situation that the book of Revelation is written in, is that people like this as a matter of fact, meeting underground in many times in the ancient Near East.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: But meeting underground not because it's cheap rent or a good space to meet when a church is meeting at nine o'clock in the morning or something like that but because maybe if they knew that we were meeting together, they would want to bring us before the powers that be and murder us and our families, kidnap the pastor that be and murder us and our families, kidnap the pastor I'm talking.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: The most powerful person in the most powerful empire in the world has set themselves against the church.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: And so the book of Revelation is this prophetic, apocalyptic vision that's given to this man named John to give to the churches.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: And apocalyptic means something.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So let's think about for a moment what that word apocalypse means.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Apocalypse does not mean just the end of the world.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Apocalyptic literature is basically an unveiling of what's really going on in the world, right?
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So the book of Revelation is called the Revelation of St John.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: The actual, literal word for that, instead of Revelation, is it's the apocalypse of St John, the apocalypse.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And what that means is that God gave John this vision.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: The spirit of God gave John this vision in which John gets to see what's really going on in the course of human history.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: An apocalyptic letter is one that kind of takes the veil back on what's happening in the course of human history.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: An apocalyptic letter is one that kind of takes the veil back on what's happening in the world.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: We see what's happening in the world.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: There's war in the Middle East and there's war in Eastern Europe and there's tumultuous stuff happening in the United States of America.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: This is what's happening on the surface.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: An apocalyptic vision is one where God says I want to show you what's going on behind the curtain.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I want to show you what's really happening, who these leaders in your world really are, what they're really like, and I want to show you what's ultimately going to happen in the course of human history.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Who wins.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Apocalyptic literature is an unveiling of what's really happening, peeling back of the curtain to show you what God sees in human history, how God sees the current events that are happening now.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Are we on the same page?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And it's this apocalyptic vision that John gets from the Spirit of God in code, purposely, because it needs to be.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It's a subversive message in the book of Revelation to encourage a church and a people who are being hunted and persecuted by the Roman Empire.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: This is why it's apocalyptic, because it needs to be written in code in a way that the people who were intended to read it, the target audience, would understand.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: But everybody else doesn't.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And you know what the code is.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's the images and symbols of the Old Testament, of the Hebrew Scriptures.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: See, one of the reasons we don't understand the book of Revelation is because we don't understand the Hebrew Scriptures Right.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: The book of Revelation is not the only apocalyptic book in the Bible.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: If you don't understand the book of Daniel in the Old Testament, you're never going to understand the book of Revelation.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: They are very, very similar and many of the images in Revelation you find originally in the book of Daniel and the writer expects us to know them.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It's going to be really hard to kind of understand this apocalyptic visions and symbols and metaphors if we don't understand the Old Testament.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: But it's written in code for and to a persecuted church to encourage them and to tell them.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: This is what's really happening in your moments and this is where all of history is heading.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Are we on the same page now?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: This is the book of Revelation and I want to do just this real quick, deep dive.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I want to give you, show you, a couple of characters from the book of Revelation who I think we need to know about, the reasons why I've been thinking about Revelation the last several months.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So let's dive in.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And the first person I want to tell you about, the first thing I want to tell you about in the book of Revelation, is who the main character is.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, who's the main character in the book of Revelation?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: There are some crazy, wacky wild characters in the book of Revelation.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I'm talking animals that have one that has the head of an eagle and the feet of a bear and 10 horns and 10 eyes eyes all around their bodies wild things.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: But there's one image in the book of Revelation who is the main character in the book of Revelation and it's easy to miss.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: But we meet the main character of the book of Revelation in Revelation 5.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So let's go there and turn to Revelation 5.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's verse 1.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Do we have it up there?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Perfect, this is John.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: John gets beamed into the throne room of God in the heavenly reality, or realm if you will, and that kind of seems to be all around.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Just so you know.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: But I don't have time to go into that.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But here we go, revelation 5.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Then I saw a scroll.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: This is John saying this John the Revelator.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Then I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne God the Almighty.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: There was written on the inside and outside of the scroll and it was sealed with seven seals.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Imagine, like a wax seal on a letter.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that kind of fancy old thing that's the seven seals.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And I saw a strong angel who shouted with a loud voice who is worthy to break the seals on the scroll and open it?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: We're supposed to feel the tension in this moment.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: There's something in this scroll that needs to get up, but no one can or is worthy to open it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It's like the sword and the stone.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: No one can do it.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Then I began to weep bitterly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll and read it.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Do you hear the emotion there?
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: But one of the 24 elders who worships before the throne day and night said to me stop weeping.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Look, the lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has won the victory.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: He is worthy to open the scroll and its seven seals.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Then I saw a lamb that looked as if it had been slaughtered.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Now here's something fun that happens in the book of Revelation pretty regularly.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: John will say I heard someone said this.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: He said hey, don't worry, the lion of the tribe of Judah, he is conquered, he is able to open the scroll.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: That's what John heard.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: But then he looks and he doesn't see a lion actually, but he sees the main character of the book of Revelation.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: See, because the main character of the book of Revelation is this really ironic image, that is, a lamb that looked as if it had been slaughtered.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Do you know what a slaughtered lamb looks like?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: It's this lamb that has had its throat slit and has blood everywhere.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: It's a very, very unlikely image to be the protagonist in this epic book with beasts and creatures.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: The main character in the book of Revelation is this lamb that looked as if it had been slaughtered, but it was now standing between the throne and the four living beings, among the 24 elders.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: He had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the sevenfold spirit of God that is sent out into every part of the earth.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: He stepped forward and took the scroll from the slaughtered lamb, stepped forward, took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne, and when he took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne and when he took the scroll, the four living beings and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Each one had a harp and they held golden bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of God's people, and they sang a new song with these words you are worthy, the slaughtered lamb.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals and open it, for you are slaughtered and your blood has what the people of God look like.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: That's what the people of God look like, a people from every tribe and language and people and nation.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: See right off the bat, right when we hear about who the Lamb is and what the Lamb has done.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: It's subversive.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Why have I been thinking about Revelation?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Let's start connecting the dots, and you have caused them to become a kingdom of priests for our God, and they will reign on the earth.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: The main character of the book of Revelation, friends, are not these fantastic and awful beasts that we find in the book of Revelation.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: The main character in the book of Revelation is not the dragon who comes to wage war on the earth and on God's people.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: The main character of the book of Revelation are not the churches.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Even the main character of the book of Revelation is here's the Sunday school answer Jesus.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: But it's this particular vision of Jesus.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: It's Jesus, the slaughtered lamb, and not just the slaughtered lamb, but in the midst of this empire that is hunting down the church and persecuting God's people.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: The empire, the one who slaughtered this lamb, is the empire.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: The one who slaughtered Jesus on the cross, is this empire who set itself against the people of God.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Now talk about an ironic main character to a book, main character to a book.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: The book's written in the subversive way, encoded language to a people who are being hunted down and persecuted by the empire for following Jesus.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And the main character of the book is one who has been killed and slaughtered by the empire.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: See, because in God's economy, in the book of Revelation, that's what victory looks like.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: We need to learn from these images, friends.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: These images want to teach us something and these images say if you want to achieve victory in this world and in God's kingdom, it is not the way of the beast.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: If you want to achieve victory in this world, it's the way of the beast.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: If you want to achieve victory in this world, it's the way of the slaughtered lamb.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: It's the way of the one who laid his life down in the face of all the injustice and oppression the empire could throw at him and went quietly.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Who laid down his life for his enemies, even the empire.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: This is the main character of the book of Revelation and we need to learn from this main character.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Let's keep going.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Can we keep going?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I could go, I could.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: We could have some fun there.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: But there's more here, all right.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: So let's move on to these, the two kind of antagonists and there's a number of them.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just highlight two major ones from Revelation 13.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Of them, I'm going to just highlight two major ones from Revelation 13.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Now is when stuff gets juicy.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: All right, we've got a slaughtered lamb, that's the main character.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: But we've got a couple of beasts.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: So let's go.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I think it is Revelation 13.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: What's your name, by the way, ellen?
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Here we go.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Revelation 13.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: The stuff that we all came for, right.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Then I saw a beast rising up out of the sea.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: A beast.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Now Revelation is asking you turn your thinking caps on.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Imagine here.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: All right, I preached through the book of Revelation several years ago in church and we had an artist who was painting images while I was preaching.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Super fun to be able to see that stuff.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: But we got to imagine.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Then I saw a beast rising up out of the sea.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It had seven heads and 10 horns with 10 crowns on its horns.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: That's authority and power.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: And written on are you imagining this?
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: And written on each of its seven heads with 10 horns and 10 crowns on its horns were names that blasphemed God.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: The beast looked like a leopard, but it had the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion, and the dragon who I'm not going to go into in Revelation 12, the dragon that's Satan, by the way.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: The dragon gave the beast his own power and throne and great authority.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded, beyond recovery, but the fatal wound was healed.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: The whole earth marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance Ooh, that's a big word in Revelation gave allegiance to the beast.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: They worshiped the dragon for giving the beast such power and they also worshiped the beast, who is as great as the beast.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: They exclaimed who is able to fight against him?
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Then I saw another.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, so first of all, the beast from the sea.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Can you go back, ellen?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Just one, so we don't ruin the next one.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, the beast of the sea with seven heads and 10 horns and 10 crowns on its horns, and in all the things, the face of a leopard, all the things.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: This is this wild image.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I don't have time to tease this out and have a little fun with you.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I just want to ask the question.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Let's ask who is this beast of the sea?
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: What does this beast of the sea represent?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Everyone wants to know.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Ready, it's Hillary Clinton, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, no, no.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: It's Donald Trump.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: The beast, the beast everybody knows is Barack Obama, I'm sorry, no, okay, that's, I'm having some fun with you here.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Here's what many good biblical scholars think the beast represents.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: The beast represents the war machines of the earth.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Can we actually?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Let's keep going forward?
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I'm a little thrown off because I don't have my Bible, because it's in the NIV and you guys use the NLT and geez, louise Stephen.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, yes, here we go.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to read from verse 5 and 13.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's up there.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: For 42 months it opened its mouth to blaspheme God and to slander his name in his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: All the inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast, all those whose names have not been written in the book of the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain over the creation of the world, the main character, so the beast of the sea, represents the empires of the world that are the war machines that use violence and fear and power to overwhelm the world and to demand allegiance from the world.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: The beast of the sea, most good biblical scholars will tell you, represents the violent, bloodthirsty war machines of the empires of this world.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, the empires and the leaders of this world who realize that if I use force and domination and violence and instill fear and manipulate people, the people of the world, I get more power.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: His name was Domitian in the time that this book was, this letter was written.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: But see, that beast has many names throughout history, and because there have been many, many, countless empires in the history of the world that have used violence, that have used bloodthirsty, power-hungry greedy men who are obsessed with more and more power and will use violence to get it, the beast of the sea is the violent war machines of the empires of this world that stand opposed to the ways of the slaughtered lamb.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Are you with me?
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, there's another beast, and they're fun too.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth, the beast from the sea and then the beast of the earth.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: He had two horns, like those of a lamb Interesting but he spoke with the voice of a dragon.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: He exercised authority, all the authority of the first beast, and let me tell you people have been trying to decipher this and decode this and try to put names on these characters for 2,000 years.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: He exercised all authority, blah, blah, blah, and he required all the earth and its people to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: He did astounding miracles, even making fire flash down from the earth, from to the earth, from the sky, while everyone was watching.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: This is fascinating stuff, and with all the miracles he was allowed to perform on behalf of the first beast, he deceived all the people who belonged to this world.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: He ordered the people to make a great statue of the first beast, who was fatally wounded and then came back to life.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: He was then permitted to give life to the statue so that it could speak.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Then the statue of the beast commanded that anyone refusing to worship it must die.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: He required everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to be given a mark on the right hand or the forehead.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: We obsess over who this is, and no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: What this is, biblical scholars tell us, is this 666 written on your forehead and on your hand.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: It's kind of an anti-shema.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Does anyone know what the shema is?
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: It's kind of an anti-shema.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Does anyone know what the shema is?
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: It's from the book of Deuteronomy and it says Hear O Israel, the Lord, your God is one.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: You shall worship the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength right, and you shall write these words on your forehead and on your hand.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: This is kind of an anti-shema here.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: And what this is, let me just again, because I don't know, holy cow, I don't have tons of time.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: The beast from the earth is, the many biblical scholars say, represents the economic, exploitative, economic propaganda machine of the empires of this world.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: So the beast of the sea represents the violent, warmongering ways of the empires of this world and the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth represents the exploitative, economic propaganda machines of this world that demands the allegiance to both of them, the ways of the empire, which are violence and exploitation, and demands and calls for all of humanity's allegiance.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: These are the beasts in the book of Revelation and if you read further, you'll see.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: John the Revelator starts talking about Babylon and how Babylon is this metaphorical beast in this book.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And it's not that Babylon is something special.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: It's just this really, really central example within the biblical narrative of what an empire looks like, example within the biblical narrative of what an empire looks like Back in the book of Daniel, when the people of Israel were enslaved and occupied and taken captive by the Babylonians.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: This empire that is fueled by violence and manipulation and economic exploitation and victimization and oppression and injustice.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Babylon was the first that we find.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Well, actually, egypt was the first, but Babylon is this type or this metaphor, but the people of God were oppressed by many other empires.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: First it was the Babylonians, then it was the Persians, then it was the Greeks, then it was the Romans when this stuff was written.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: But it keeps going throughout history.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: There's no point to asking who precisely are these beasts?
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Because they are a symbolic picture for all of the empires and all of the leaders of the world who use violence and war and exploitation and injustice and oppression and call for the people's allegiance.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: That's who these beasts represent.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: People's allegiance that's who these beasts represent.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Are you getting a clue as to why I've been thinking about Revelation?
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Last one, last scriptural?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Can you give me like 10 minutes, is that okay?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, last one, revelation 19.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Here's a spoiler alert.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: This is the end of the story here.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: The revelation goes on, but this is kind of the end of the battle, the epic battle of the slaughtered lamb and the beast.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Then I saw heaven opened and a white horse was standing there.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Its rider was named Faithful and True.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so good, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: His eyes were like flames of fire and on his head were many crowns.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: This is the slaughtered lamb.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: By the way, this is a different image of the slaughtered lamb.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: His eyes were like flames of fire and on his head were many crowns.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: A name was written on him that no one understood except himself.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: He wore a robe dipped in blood and his title was the Word of God, the armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: He will rule them with an iron rod.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: This is all scriptural.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: He will release them with the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing down from a wine press.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: On his robe and at his thigh was written this title King of all kings and Lord of all lords.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Then I saw an angel standing in the sun shouting to the vultures flying in the sky come, gather together for the great banquet God has prepared.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, strong warriors, of horses and their riders and of all humanity, both free and slave and small and great.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: It's kind of dark.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Then I saw the beast and the kings of this world and their armies gathered together to fight against the one sitting on the horse and his army.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: And the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who did many mighty miracles on behalf of the beast of the earth, the miracles that deceived all who accepted the mark of the beast and worshipped his statue.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Then I saw the beast and the kings of this world and their armies gathered together to fight against the one sitting on the horse in his army, and the beast was captured and with Now that's quite the picture, violent, ugly picture.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: But first a couple things.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Remember it's symbolic.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Many violently prone pastors have taken up on this section and this image of Jesus and really really done a number to it.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Has anybody listened to the podcast the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: A couple of you.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Let me just give you an example of a pastor who is one of these, of a pastor who is one of these, shall I say overly oh gosh, any words I use are going to not awesome pastor.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: This is a direct quote.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I'm reading it right here In Revelation, quote from his name's, mark Driscoll.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: In Revelation, jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down his leg, a sword in his hand.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: That's not true.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: It's coming out of his mouth.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: A sword in his hand and a commitment to make someone bleed.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: This preaches.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: That is the guy I can worship.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I cannot worship the hippie diaper halo Jesus, because I cannot worship a guy.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I can beat up A couple things about this image here.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: First of all, if you can't.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Let's just take beat up in Jesus out of the equation here, this vision of this warrior, violent warrior who's got a robe dipped in blood and it's the blood of his enemies and we're excited about that.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: That might not be the most accurate picture of this rider in Revelation 19,.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: The one who is a slaughtered lamb has now become the rider, because, if you pay attention, I'm going to read to you from the NIV.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, he comes to battle in verse 13, dressed in a robe dipped in blood.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: His name is the word of God.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: See, what you find if you're paying attention to the actual text, is that he's already got blood on his robe before the battle even starts.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So what does that mean?
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: It means that these violent pictures of Jesus being a slaughtering warrior general are actually completely non-biblical, because, see, jesus showed up to the battle already covered in blood.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Do you know why?
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Because he's the slaughtered lamb and the blood that his robe is dipped in is his own.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: See, this battle isn't won through killing your enemies.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: This battle is won, the battle over the empires of this world, the battle that's waging where the empires and beasts and leaders of this world are using violence and exploitation and oppression and injustice, trying to divide humanity and calling for our allegiance.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: The way that they have been overcome, revelation tells us, is through the way of self-sacrificial love of the Lamb of God.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: See, when we get obsessed by asking who the beast is, sometimes we become the beast ourselves and we get bloodthirsty and we see humans as enemies.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: But see, the enemies that Jesus slays here in this vision in Revelation 19 are not human beings.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: See, how could that be?
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Because Jesus died for all human beings.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: He doesn't kill them, he dies for them.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: The enemies that Jesus is killing here in Revelation 19 are the enemies and the evil that set themselves against the people of God.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Things like violence, things like racism that you're talking about, stephen Things like injustice, things like exploitation, things like oppression, things like separation, all of the things that set themselves against humanity, that are represented in the beasts and the empires of this world and the leaders of this world that are calling for our allegiance.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Those are the enemies of God that Jesus slays with a sword coming out of his mouth.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: It's a metaphorical, symbolic sword.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: So why have I been thinking about the book of Revelation, friends?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about the book of Revelation because there's a lot of people in our world who seem to think that turning people against one another is the way to win allegiance.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: There seem to be a lot of people in our world talking very loudly in high places of power who are using violence to overcome their so-called enemies.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: There are leaders in this world who I've been thinking about Revelation because, see, the leaders in our world today have been reminding me of these characters in the book of Revelation who are waging war, who are using economic exploitation, who are preying on the vulnerable in order to get ahead, and they're calling for our allegiance.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: So what does Revelation have to teach us?
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I think Revelation is telling us church, don't be surprised.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Don't be surprised when the empires of this world set themselves against the way of the slaughtered lamb.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Be surprised when you see the church, following the ways of this world, set themselves against the way of the slaughtered lamb.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Be surprised when you see the church following the ways of this world and the beasts.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Be grieved when you see that happening, but don't let yourself get distracted, see, because the beast wants to distract us, the beast wants to divide us, the beasts always throughout human history.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Again, there is no one person that personifies this beast.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: It's all the empires and all the leaders, they all look the same and sound the same and have the same motivations it's their own good and power.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: See, but Jesus, the way of the main character of the book of Revelation, the way of the slaughtered lamb.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Jesus gives himself, for the sake of the world, the empire that's killing him.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: The book of Revelation is a book of allegiance and faithfulness.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Allegiance and faithfulness.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Since I've been taking the book of Revelation seriously for about the last decade, I want to tell you just a little tiny bit that Revelation has changed my practical life.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I have decided I'm no longer going to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Some of you might think that I'm a bad American for doing that.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I love this country.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: My mom's an immigrant.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of patriotism in me.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I really do.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I remember walking across the Brooklyn Bridge for the first time and seeing the Statue of Liberty for the first time, and I welled up with tears in my head, goosebumps all over my body, but where was I?
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Pledge of Allegiance?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: But see, the book of Revelation tells me that there's one person who calls for my allegiance and expects 100% of it, and it's the slaughtered lamb.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: It's Jesus.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: And I cannot stand there and say I pledge allegiance to anything or anyone other than Jesus and his kingdom.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: That's me.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: That's just a little change.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: But see, little changes like that start changing the way you see all, everything else.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: They start changing the way we.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: It changes the power we give to the ones in power.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Are you with me?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: It changes the power in their words, see, because I know that the world's headed towards goodness, life, justice and the end of oppression and violence in the ways of the beast.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: I know it and so I'm called by Jesus, the lamb of God, who was slain before the foundations of the world, to manifest the ways of the slaughtered lamb, to manifest and live out the ways of Jesus in the world.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: That's calling me to see everyone as enemies.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: That's the way of the beast.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Friends, see, revelation is calling for our allegiance and our faithfulness and our alertness.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing the way the world is operating, the way God sees it?
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing the end of the story as the lamb who was slain, who is worthy to open the seals of the scroll and say this is what the world has been made to look like?
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Which story are we living into?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Which story are we believing, friends?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Which story do we think is actually the truest and most real story?
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't care what side of the aisle you're on Jesus, the way of the slaughtered lamb, it breaks through all of our ideologies and all of our ethnicity, all of our identifications, and says I want your allegiance, I want your faithfulness.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Who are we gonna give our allegiance and faithfulness to?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: That's why I've been thinking about the book of Revelation.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Friends,