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Scott Peterson's back: Will A&E docuseries set him free? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: On Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two, we find
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Speaker 1: a dependent Scottie Peterson guilty of the crime of murder
1:29
Speaker 1: of Lazy d Days Peterson. The case of State versus
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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson to me, feels like it just happened yesterday.
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Speaker 1: She just vanished and it turned into a media storm
1:41
Speaker 1: within days. Please please please let her go, bring her back.
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Speaker 1: Guess what, Scotty, san Quen's your new home. There was
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Speaker 1: no biological evidence, with no frumenic evidence whatsoever that pointed
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Speaker 1: to the guilt of Scott Peterson. There's at least eleven
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Speaker 1: witnesses that saw Lacy that day. This is all all
1:59
Speaker 1: Scott's at the fasana's computer, so he's innocent. I wasn't
2:03
Speaker 1: last one, did you, lady? That day? There are so
2:05
Speaker 1: many witness are walking in the neighborhood after I left,
2:09
Speaker 1: the cops. Just Canner followed up on deeper earlier across
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Speaker 1: the street. If you take one look at her photo,
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Speaker 1: one look into those brown eyes, you'll never forget them.
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Speaker 1: I never ever have forgotten Lacy Peterson. I remember when
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Speaker 1: she first went missing, when this was a missing person's case.
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Speaker 1: I knew you in my gut. It was not a
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Speaker 1: missing person's case. I knew she was dead. I don't
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Speaker 1: know how I knew, but I knew. And now, after
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Speaker 1: all this time, her husband, Scott Peterson, sitting on the
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Speaker 1: California death Row, says he's innocent and gives us reasons
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Speaker 1: why I Nancy Grace, this is our stories. Thank you
3:00
Speaker 1: for being with us. Well. I nearly passed out when
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Speaker 1: I heard Scott Peterson had reared his ugly head yet
3:09
Speaker 1: again and was dredging up his wife's murder because I
3:14
Speaker 1: remember when Sharon Roacha, Lacey's mom, took the stand. I
3:20
Speaker 1: was late to the courthouse, almost sitting in the front
3:24
Speaker 1: of the courthouse, working, working, working. It was hot in
3:28
Speaker 1: Redwood City. I flew in the courthouse, ran up the stairs,
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Speaker 1: ran down the hall. I was making a lot of
3:35
Speaker 1: noise with my cowboy boots on. Got to the courtroom
3:39
Speaker 1: just before they closed the door. I got one seat.
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Speaker 1: It was on the very back pew and I had
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Speaker 1: to sit on my backpack, which was on my back
3:50
Speaker 1: so I could see Sharon Rochel take the stand and
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Speaker 1: she described how Lacy was buried. Lacy was bow She's
4:00
Speaker 1: a skeleton, and she was buried with baby Connor, her
4:09
Speaker 1: unborn child, in her arms. That was the only way
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Speaker 1: she got to hold her baby was in their casket.
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Speaker 1: She's buried that way right now. That is what I remember.
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Speaker 1: And now Scott Peterson is dragging everybody back through the mud.
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Speaker 1: With me from daily mail dot Com Sewn Walsh. Also
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Speaker 1: with me, renowned psychologist Dr Bethany Marshall joining us from
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Speaker 1: l A first to you, Sean, I was stunned last
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Speaker 1: night when I heard the heard and watched the A
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Speaker 1: and E special and oh yes, there's more to comments
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Speaker 1: a nine part series, and it all really started with
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Speaker 1: him explaining why he didn't do it. What's your takeaway?
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Speaker 1: I think he's trying to create reasonable doubt. All these
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Speaker 1: years later, we know what happened, we know who was
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Speaker 1: found guilty, we know who's sitting on death row. But
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Speaker 1: now here's Scott Peterson saying I didn't do it. Well,
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Speaker 1: here's the deal. He is in the middle of trying
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Speaker 1: another appeal and it only takes one judge to get
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Speaker 1: it in his or her head that he's telling the truth,
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Speaker 1: and then they will poison the rest of the appellate court,
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Speaker 1: or at least enough to get a reversal and a remanded.
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Speaker 1: Now listen, this case has already gone up on some appeals,
5:42
Speaker 1: but it ain't over yet. Alan, do you roll it
5:47
Speaker 1: and innate and the California Study and Quentin what's called
5:52
Speaker 1: and a telephone number will be monitored and recorded. It's
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Speaker 1: just like this amazing horrible physicalrection I had. I could
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Speaker 1: feel my pea flooring. I could feel it, sarahs maybe
6:09
Speaker 1: then my fee and that's hads weird posation that was
6:18
Speaker 1: going forward and forward and any down hand there is
6:23
Speaker 1: to know into this moring forward and down like they
6:26
Speaker 1: was very far to land on. I know I was
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Speaker 1: staggering my head. I had no idea how Dr Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't help but notice it practically every
6:40
Speaker 1: every cent. It starts with me. I remember how it felt.
6:45
Speaker 1: I felt so bad. The floor almost felt from under me.
6:49
Speaker 1: I felt like I was falling forward and I didn't
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Speaker 1: know what was going to happen to me? What about
6:55
Speaker 1: Lacey and Connor? Why is this all about him feeling
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Speaker 1: bad at when he's convicted. Of course, he was convicted
7:03
Speaker 1: because he did it, So why am I hearing? In
7:05
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen about how badly he felt when he
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Speaker 1: was finally convicted. Well, he's starring in his own drama,
7:13
Speaker 1: isn't he. It's all self referential, like we see with
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Speaker 1: the sociopath. They do not see but beyond themselves. They're egocentric,
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Speaker 1: They're involved in their own lives. He's had all this
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Speaker 1: time to lick his wounds, to think about himself. He's
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Speaker 1: not thinking about Lacey. You know one fact that stood
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Speaker 1: out about this case. I was thinking about it. Two
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Speaker 1: days after Lacey went missing, he added two pornography channels
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Speaker 1: to his UH, to his cable package. So to me,
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Speaker 1: that talks about this incredible sort of narcissism. Dr Bethany,
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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, Dr Bethany, I get you know. I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: charge you with first degree robbery because you just stole
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Speaker 1: that right out of my mouth, right at of my mouth.
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Speaker 1: Not only that, Dr Bethany and Sean Waltz from Daily
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Speaker 1: Mail dot Com. I'm going to just throw this in
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Speaker 1: your court. You are an m a n Not only
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Speaker 1: she was, she had just been gone. As Dr Bethany
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Speaker 1: Marshall just said, a couple of days when he gets
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Speaker 1: porn channels, tries to sell her car Lacy's car and
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Speaker 1: the house. He contacts a realtor to sell the house.
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Speaker 1: You know what, Shaun waltsh let me tell you this.
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Speaker 1: If I go out of town on business and my
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Speaker 1: husband orders the porn channel while I'm gone, uh huh,
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Speaker 1: I better be dead or there's gonna be a homicide.
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Speaker 1: Now you know he knew she was dead. Porn channel,
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Speaker 1: my rearien porn channel. You know, it makes no sense.
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Speaker 1: I mean, and this is one of the key It
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Speaker 1: makes sense to me because he knew she was dead.
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Speaker 1: It completely agree with the fact that, um, he knew
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Speaker 1: she was dead and he knew what he was doing.
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Speaker 1: But it makes no sense for someone who trying to
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Speaker 1: ask you another question Sean Walsh from Daily Mills dot com.
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Speaker 1: What is it with men? Why do they have to
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Speaker 1: have the porn channel? I don't have to have the
9:13
Speaker 1: porn channel. It's all I can do to wake up
9:15
Speaker 1: in the morning, get the twins fed and ready for
9:18
Speaker 1: school and work, then cook dinner and then get them
9:21
Speaker 1: to bed hopefully they'll be tired. What when do I
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Speaker 1: have time to watch the poorn channel? But what is
9:28
Speaker 1: it with me? And why do they have to lay
9:29
Speaker 1: around the sofa and each chips and watch the porn channel.
9:32
Speaker 1: What are you laughing at, Richard? You just swivel around
9:35
Speaker 1: in that chair right now. Well, I'm okay, while it's
9:37
Speaker 1: on you, I'm gonna plead the fifth and I'm going
9:41
Speaker 1: to say that What surprised me in this is that
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Speaker 1: he's a man who was trying to cover his tracks
9:46
Speaker 1: when he was dealing with the police. And I think
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Speaker 1: he thought he was the smartest guy in the room.
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Speaker 1: He clearly wasn't. The two porn channels, the realtor that,
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Speaker 1: the talking to the talking to the mistress on the phone.
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Speaker 1: I mean, this was not smart guy. This was someone
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Speaker 1: who had something to hide. I thought he was smarter
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Speaker 1: than everybody else, but it all quickly unraveled. Let's take
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Speaker 1: a listen. You know, for him talking about the floor
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Speaker 1: falling out from under him, he was in a free fall.
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Speaker 1: He couldn't believe he was convicted. Okay, you know you
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Speaker 1: should have thought about that when he was making those
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Speaker 1: homemade cement blocks to weigh her body down. But that's
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Speaker 1: another can of worms. Take a listener. This is more
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Speaker 1: disturbing to me on a crime and justice a legal level,
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Speaker 1: where he raises a specter of other people seeing Lacy
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Speaker 1: alive after she's reported missing, after she allegedly goes missing.
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Speaker 1: Listen to this Scott Peterson from death Row. I wasn't
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Speaker 1: last one lay that game. There are so many witnesses
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Speaker 1: gratar walking in the neighborhood after I left. Just Canner
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Speaker 1: followed up earlier across the street. Please, so let's talk
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Speaker 1: about Scott Peterson claiming other people saw Lacy alive after
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Speaker 1: she allegedly went missing. Okay, let's let's just grab the
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Speaker 1: bull by the horns. Listen, people, I know Mark Garrig Goes.
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Speaker 1: I know him very well. That was Scott Peterson's defense
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Speaker 1: attorney at trial. He is as slippery as an eel.
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Speaker 1: Let me tell you that now his job under our
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Speaker 1: justice system is to do everything he can, right or
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Speaker 1: wrong morally, to get his client off. You want to
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Speaker 1: tell me, Shaun Walsh dailymail dot com that these people
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Speaker 1: are out there that allegedly see Lacy alive, and he
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Speaker 1: knows about them because they're in police reports. They're on
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Speaker 1: there in tip lines where they've called in. There's documentation
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Speaker 1: of them calling in, and he did not bring them
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Speaker 1: to tryal may I venture a guess as to why,
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Speaker 1: because the story wouldn't hold up and they would crumble
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Speaker 1: on cross examination. What about that, Sean Nancy, I agree
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Speaker 1: with you. I think this is one of these cases
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Speaker 1: that we see all too often now where we reimagine history,
12:18
Speaker 1: memories fade, emotions fade, and people aren't as angry about
12:23
Speaker 1: the case as they were back then because they believe
12:26
Speaker 1: it was solved. They believe the right man is behind bars.
12:30
Speaker 1: But here we have it all these years later. He's
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Speaker 1: trying to get off death row. He's trying to be
12:35
Speaker 1: released from prison, and he wants people to believe this,
12:38
Speaker 1: so they're dredging up this story to try and get
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Speaker 1: him out. That's what this is, plain and simple. Well,
12:45
Speaker 1: I agree with you. There's another facet to it. Dr
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. I've been thinking about, you know, Scott Peterson.
12:52
Speaker 1: A lot of people thought, not me, of course, you
12:54
Speaker 1: guys know that, not me. I thought he was attractive, handsome,
12:58
Speaker 1: even you know, the dark, smoldering good looks with a
13:02
Speaker 1: perfect smile, great body, from being an athlete, a golfer.
13:08
Speaker 1: What let's see, um looks great in a suit, walks
13:13
Speaker 1: like a jock. I saw that my salesperson. Oh yeah,
13:16
Speaker 1: by the way, self fertilizer. You know what that is, right,
13:20
Speaker 1: poop to put it mildly? Um college degree, beautiful home,
13:24
Speaker 1: beautiful wife, loving family. His whole family loved him, Jackie Peterson,
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Speaker 1: his mom worshiped him. Here's the deal. It's easy, Bethany Marshall.
13:34
Speaker 1: It's easy to say whatever the h you want to
13:37
Speaker 1: say when you're sitting on a pay phone on a
13:39
Speaker 1: collect call, behind bars, kicked back in a chair to
13:43
Speaker 1: your sister in law, no cross examination, nobody calling you
13:46
Speaker 1: on anything you have to say. If all this were true,
13:48
Speaker 1: why the hey didn't he take the stand and saying
13:51
Speaker 1: in front of a jury. Why is that? Bethany? Well,
13:54
Speaker 1: don't you think his defense attorney would was concerned about
13:59
Speaker 1: how slick he would seem, how grandiose, how arrogant. You know, Nancy,
14:03
Speaker 1: I look at this through the lens of sociopathy and
14:06
Speaker 1: psycho Oh hell no, hell no, excuse me. I promise
14:10
Speaker 1: I gave up crossing when the toys were born because
14:12
Speaker 1: he would get sliced up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Young
14:15
Speaker 1: cross examination? What about that? Beth Well? Actually, you know
14:19
Speaker 1: you and I talk a lot about the fact that
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Speaker 1: sociopaths have very little anxiety about getting caught, and because
14:26
Speaker 1: of that, they're never tongue tied. They lie very easily.
14:30
Speaker 1: They do not have cause and effect thinking. They lack
14:34
Speaker 1: insight into how they come across to other people. So
14:38
Speaker 1: so they will flip from topic to topic when they're
14:41
Speaker 1: confronted when their cross examined. But there's a kind of
14:45
Speaker 1: shallowness to their lives. They do not think the lies
14:48
Speaker 1: through and it doesn't really bother them that they're lying.
14:52
Speaker 1: That This is the essential feature of pathological lying is
14:56
Speaker 1: low levels of insight into how they're coming across to
14:59
Speaker 1: other of people. So I can see why Mark Garrigos
15:03
Speaker 1: would not have wanted him to be understand because I
15:06
Speaker 1: don't think Scott Peterson had true insight into how he
15:09
Speaker 1: came across to the people around him. You know, it
15:12
Speaker 1: brings up the other question is how do people and
15:15
Speaker 1: I'll just I know women do it too. I'm not
15:17
Speaker 1: picking on guys, but I just think of all the
15:20
Speaker 1: the guys that get away with lies to women and
15:24
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Speaker 1: and the author. And now let's talk about miss Fry.
16:39
Speaker 1: Amber Fry take a listen. Scott told me he was
16:43
Speaker 1: not married. We did have a romantic relationship, now you know,
16:49
Speaker 1: Shaun wall stealingmail dot com. Last night, I noticed that
16:52
Speaker 1: the A and E special did not really touch on
16:56
Speaker 1: Amber Fry. But the reality is, and you know, I
17:00
Speaker 1: remember those tapes being played to me. Amber Fry was
17:04
Speaker 1: the pivotal moment, and not only the trial but the
17:07
Speaker 1: investigation because up till then, Sean, I don't know if
17:12
Speaker 1: if you remember this, but up until then, Lacy's family
17:16
Speaker 1: was standing by Scott Peterson say he had nothing to
17:19
Speaker 1: do with it, that's right, her loving husband. And once
17:23
Speaker 1: that photo came out, remember that photo. She was at
17:27
Speaker 1: her little Christmas party on one side of town, and
17:29
Speaker 1: she was so tired and sick, pregnant. She's nine months pregnant.
17:33
Speaker 1: She had a little feet up and she had on
17:36
Speaker 1: that little Christmas outfit, a maternity Christmas outfit alone. And
17:41
Speaker 1: then the other picture emerged of Santa Baby on the
17:46
Speaker 1: other side of town, wearing a Santa hat with his
17:50
Speaker 1: arm around Amber Fry. Same night, she had on a
17:54
Speaker 1: strapless red satin Christmas outfit. I still remember it. And
17:58
Speaker 1: he had his hand right on her arian in the picture.
18:02
Speaker 1: Uh huh. When that came out. Everything broke right opens John.
18:06
Speaker 1: That's the best thing about this, You know that, regardless
18:08
Speaker 1: of what you think of the relationship between Scott and Amber,
18:11
Speaker 1: in the end, Amber was pivotal to this case being
18:14
Speaker 1: solved because he had the audacity to call her during
18:19
Speaker 1: Lacy's candlelight vigil like extraordinary. I mean, this is someone
18:24
Speaker 1: who just knows no bounds. And she then was like, no,
18:29
Speaker 1: this isn't happening, and she started recording the phone calls
18:32
Speaker 1: with him, and then all she had twenty nine hours
18:35
Speaker 1: of recorded conversations with him that she was giving directly
18:39
Speaker 1: to investigators trying to solve this crime. You know, why
18:42
Speaker 1: is it that she has always painted so badly died
18:45
Speaker 1: to Bethany Marshall. Um, She's always painted as the bad
18:51
Speaker 1: the bad guy that she somehow broke up their marriage.
18:55
Speaker 1: Here's the deal, Bethany, he had had a string of
18:57
Speaker 1: affairs before. I am or Fry absolutely and if it
19:01
Speaker 1: hadn't been for her, the jury may have believed he
19:04
Speaker 1: was this loving husband. I mean, she's the one that
19:06
Speaker 1: went to police and said, I've been deubting this guy
19:09
Speaker 1: and I think he's married to that missing woman. Amazingly,
19:14
Speaker 1: enough she saw right through the Cohn and so she
19:18
Speaker 1: has my admiration for that, because me she is as
19:21
Speaker 1: pure as the driven snow. The minute she saw something
19:23
Speaker 1: was wrong, she started those recordings. Do you know that
19:26
Speaker 1: that during Lacey Wright, did you just say pure as
19:30
Speaker 1: a driven I do think. Okay, don't get crazy Bethany
19:34
Speaker 1: over the top. No, but but I will say that
19:38
Speaker 1: she was the pivotal moment in this trial and the investigation. Hey,
19:43
Speaker 1: what's to say Sean Walsh that he wouldn't come after
19:47
Speaker 1: her because she was a major witness and he knew
19:51
Speaker 1: it right all the way through. This was a time
19:54
Speaker 1: like this may not have been a whole lot of
19:56
Speaker 1: time ago. I mean this was less than fifteen years ago,
20:00
Speaker 1: but the Internet wasn't as prevalent then. People weren't online
20:03
Speaker 1: all the time. They didn't have cell phones that they
20:05
Speaker 1: were constantly looking at and reading news updates and tweeting
20:09
Speaker 1: or on Facebook. There wasn't the only press coverage they
20:12
Speaker 1: were getting was on television. They weren't using the net
20:15
Speaker 1: like we used the net today. And so it wasn't
20:18
Speaker 1: until December thirtieth, two thousand and two that she saw
20:21
Speaker 1: a newspaper article about Lazy's disappearance, and she immediately called
20:25
Speaker 1: the tip line and that's when she started working with
20:28
Speaker 1: the authorities. So you've got to give her credit for
20:31
Speaker 1: that because she could have remained silent. And you know
20:33
Speaker 1: when when when he was arrested in the parking lot
20:35
Speaker 1: of the Tory Pines Um Golf Club, didn't he have
20:39
Speaker 1: a shovel? Didn't he have a dagger? I mean, my
20:43
Speaker 1: thought was always after her. I always thought that he
20:47
Speaker 1: was going to go after her. And remember he had
20:49
Speaker 1: the map to her place from where he was. I
20:53
Speaker 1: guess like we were called a Google map. Now he
20:55
Speaker 1: had that with him, plus those tools how to get
20:59
Speaker 1: to replaced from where he was. And don't forget he
21:02
Speaker 1: had as someone else's idea on him. He had four
21:05
Speaker 1: cell phones, and he died his head blonde and grown
21:07
Speaker 1: a bid. I mean he was, hold on, you're leaving
21:10
Speaker 1: something out Seawan Walsh. Conveniently, not only had he died
21:15
Speaker 1: his hair blonde, fifteen thousand dollars in cash, fake ideas,
21:21
Speaker 1: a lot of sleeping pills, survival gear, and a stash
21:25
Speaker 1: of Viagara viagra Sean daily mail dot com. Yeah, that's
21:34
Speaker 1: what she kind of have. When you go camping, right,
21:36
Speaker 1: you gotta have your viagra stash. Why Sean Walsh, why
21:39
Speaker 1: never know how you're going to fight a ban? Nancy?
21:43
Speaker 1: Thank you. I guess you saw that would come in
21:45
Speaker 1: a mile away. Okay, hold on, speaking of Amber fright
21:48
Speaker 1: please just for your listening entertainment, Ellen, did could you
21:52
Speaker 1: please roll? Scott Peterson this is around the time of
21:56
Speaker 1: his wife's vigil, only he knew she was at the
21:59
Speaker 1: bottom of the Sandford Cisco Bay, claiming he's in Paris
22:03
Speaker 1: celebrating the New year with his new friends. I think
22:06
Speaker 1: one was named Pierre and one was named Jacques. Take
22:09
Speaker 1: a listen. Whoa baby? Amber? Yeah you can't. Oh my goodness.
22:21
Speaker 1: What's a quiet place for good? That's really good? Oh
22:26
Speaker 1: my god? Like then all this crazy static and stuff.
22:30
Speaker 1: I'm like so frustrated. Ember. Yes, Amber, Amber, I'm like yes,
22:45
Speaker 1: I can hear you. Yes, okay, okay, I'm like stay
22:51
Speaker 1: steel or something work? How's your How was Nni in here?
22:59
Speaker 1: How was your new That's good? I just I want
23:02
Speaker 1: and are now if they came out of an alley
23:05
Speaker 1: quiet alley that night? Yeah, it is very good. Fireworks
23:12
Speaker 1: there for the evil power than the people playing her
23:17
Speaker 1: talk songs. That's very funny. Well that's good. I'm glad
23:22
Speaker 1: you guys said to go out are definitely. I can
23:25
Speaker 1: never remember your friend's name. I know, Jeff, but you
23:28
Speaker 1: always say a bomb swans and then we have a
23:34
Speaker 1: touch caw fend of our h oh he said, oh yeah, okay, resolution,
23:47
Speaker 1: What was that should it be? What should my ar
23:53
Speaker 1: gusolution be? Oh? I don't know. That was my question
23:57
Speaker 1: that I didn't think of that? Good? Yeah? Yeah, So um,
24:11
Speaker 1: well I don't think you get my message. Yeah, I
24:16
Speaker 1: loved you a message because I was like, oh, I
24:18
Speaker 1: hope you at least get that. But I was going
24:21
Speaker 1: to or the time of discus thing didn't work out,
24:25
Speaker 1: so I'm probably most likely going to go later to Shawn's.
24:28
Speaker 1: Are you there hello. The whole amber Fry issue is
24:36
Speaker 1: very important because it brings to light who he really was. However,
24:41
Speaker 1: that's not what matters at a murder trial. You can
24:45
Speaker 1: be mother Teresa if you committed a murder, it doesn't matter,
24:49
Speaker 1: or you can be Scott Peterson and if you didn't
24:52
Speaker 1: commit the murder then that doesn't matter. What's concerning is it? Now?
24:56
Speaker 1: All these years later, he is conducting these alhouse interviews
25:00
Speaker 1: with his sister, uninterrupted, unchecked, unproven, giving a different theory.
25:09
Speaker 1: Why now, Sean, So, I think it's very easy to
25:13
Speaker 1: tell a family member who truly believes you're innocent what
25:16
Speaker 1: you want them to hear and what you want people
25:18
Speaker 1: to hear. But let's be clear here. He wants to
25:20
Speaker 1: get off death row. He wants to get out of prison.
25:23
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to be killed for the crime that
25:26
Speaker 1: he committed. So it looks like he will do anything
25:29
Speaker 1: to get out and part of that is dredging this
25:31
Speaker 1: case back up, which is totally disrespectful to Lacey's family,
25:36
Speaker 1: and to attempt to get out of jail, that's all
25:38
Speaker 1: he wants here. Scott Peterson once again is focusing on
25:42
Speaker 1: what is best for Scott Peterson and is not taking
25:45
Speaker 1: into account his actions and the consequences for those actions,
25:48
Speaker 1: which is he is on death row for I said
25:51
Speaker 1: that Scott told her he was not married and they
25:54
Speaker 1: did have a romantic sex relationship. Peterson discussed the revelation
26:01
Speaker 1: on a two thousand four audio tape that had never
26:06
Speaker 1: been released until now. Wrobably did you talk to Hamburg
26:11
Speaker 1: after Lacy had gone missing? Reasons throughout it, all of
26:16
Speaker 1: what she starts to search be taught. I think what
26:22
Speaker 1: happened to the search for Shawn to leave you very
26:26
Speaker 1: condent was revealed that expects with her, there's no more search.
26:31
Speaker 1: Every hour I could find the search going because they
26:35
Speaker 1: can find it. So Dr Bethany Marshall with me along
26:40
Speaker 1: with Shaun Wallace from DAI email dot com. Dr Bethany
26:44
Speaker 1: when he is asked, and this is on a recorded
26:46
Speaker 1: phone conversation two thousand four, why did you keep talking
26:51
Speaker 1: to amber Fry? Because see now I think it's him
26:54
Speaker 1: with his dad. He's talking and he's analyzing these the
26:58
Speaker 1: Amber Fry situation. Okay, And he says the reason he
27:03
Speaker 1: kept talking to her, it was not because he just
27:05
Speaker 1: wanted to get your pants. It was because he wanted
27:09
Speaker 1: to save Lacy and Connor. Because he's a hero, right,
27:14
Speaker 1: because he is going to save his wife. It's a
27:17
Speaker 1: chance to romanticize the story, paining himself as a hero,
27:21
Speaker 1: self a grand eyes. And you know, Nancy, remember he
27:25
Speaker 1: loved to reminisce and romanticize. One of the things he
27:29
Speaker 1: did after putting Lacey in the bay is that he
27:32
Speaker 1: would sit by the side of the bay and look
27:34
Speaker 1: out over the bay. He would go back to the
27:36
Speaker 1: scene of the crime. So I think we can also
27:39
Speaker 1: see these these tapes in these interviews not just as
27:43
Speaker 1: an opportunity to exonerate himself, but to revisit the glorification
27:48
Speaker 1: of what he did. I mean, he got rid of
27:51
Speaker 1: his wife. He essentially got out of the responsibilities of fatherhood,
27:56
Speaker 1: of being being a husband, and this was a moment
28:00
Speaker 1: of glory for him. And whether or not he has
28:03
Speaker 1: insight into this or not, he revisits it again and
28:06
Speaker 1: again as he relives what went on. This is just
28:10
Speaker 1: part one. I want to understand to be a multi
28:14
Speaker 1: part series with A and E. And they have managed
28:18
Speaker 1: to get these Gailhouse interviews that he has granted has
28:21
Speaker 1: given to his sister. I just wonder what effect it's
28:26
Speaker 1: going to have on an appeals court. Just remember this.
28:29
Speaker 1: If one judge gets sucked into this, it could be over.
28:35
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson's case could take a u turn. True Love,
28:42
Speaker 1: Oh how we all wanted? Why is that it's like
28:45
Speaker 1: a drug? I don't want to get Dr Bethany Marshall
28:47
Speaker 1: started on true love being some kind of an indo
28:51
Speaker 1: more for something like that. I know where she's going
28:54
Speaker 1: hold that thought. Dr Bethany Marshall first to Sean Wash
28:58
Speaker 1: dl e Meil dot com. I want to talk to
29:00
Speaker 1: you about the Casanovacan man scams women on dating apps,
29:06
Speaker 1: collects over one million dollars. Why am I working? Why
29:12
Speaker 1: am I working my fingers to the band? Why am
29:14
Speaker 1: I trying to write books and do this and blah
29:17
Speaker 1: blah blah When I could just go online and con
29:20
Speaker 1: people out of all their money one million dollars? Why
29:23
Speaker 1: can't you just give a job? Sewan Walsh? What happened?
29:27
Speaker 1: I mean, this is extraordinary. Um, We've got a man
29:30
Speaker 1: here who, from twenties sixteen truly proved that love is blind.
29:36
Speaker 1: He told women that he met on Match, Plenty of
29:38
Speaker 1: Fish and Tinder that he was a licensed stockbroker, and
29:42
Speaker 1: he convinced them to invest thousands of dollars in fraudulent schemes.
29:46
Speaker 1: And because these women had all fallen desperately in love
29:50
Speaker 1: with him, they got out there, checked books and wrote
29:52
Speaker 1: him checks, and he collected over a million dollars from them.
29:56
Speaker 1: This guy, Dale and Pierce of Arizona reportedly scamming multiple
30:02
Speaker 1: women out of over one million dollars on dating apps
30:09
Speaker 1: reported to be Bethany quote very charming, romantic. He convinced
30:15
Speaker 1: women he was a wealthy businessman who could assist in
30:18
Speaker 1: paying off their debts. And like Shaun Walts just told us,
30:22
Speaker 1: tender plenty of fish match. He used to love the ladies.
30:28
Speaker 1: So what, how does it happen? How did you get
30:32
Speaker 1: so sucked in? What did he just sit on the
30:35
Speaker 1: internet and the phone all day and night, every day
30:38
Speaker 1: and night, all day and night, Nancy. I mean, he
30:43
Speaker 1: was quite the con artist. I would have to believe
30:46
Speaker 1: that almost all of these women were vulnerable in some way.
30:49
Speaker 1: One woman had just gotten out of a relationship. They
30:53
Speaker 1: were all desperate for love. I think a lot of
30:55
Speaker 1: I see these women in my practice, A lot of
30:57
Speaker 1: them feel that they cannot go out in the world
30:59
Speaker 1: and date um. I had this happen to a patient
31:02
Speaker 1: of mine who was morbidly obese, single mom desperately wanted
31:07
Speaker 1: a father figure for her child. When online got got
31:11
Speaker 1: taken in by somebody. Within minutes, she had fallen for
31:16
Speaker 1: this guy. Within three or four days, she had written
31:19
Speaker 1: out a check for ten thousand dollars. She I saw
31:23
Speaker 1: her twice a week from one session to the next
31:25
Speaker 1: she had already lost ten thousand dollars to somebody who
31:29
Speaker 1: was conning her online and already felt in love with him.
31:32
Speaker 1: It's a powerful poll, Nancy. Not only is he a
31:35
Speaker 1: con artist, but you were. You were joking about the brain,
31:38
Speaker 1: you know, the reptilian or the Olympic system is so
31:42
Speaker 1: gets so activated when we fall in love. It's Helen Fisher,
31:47
Speaker 1: a cultural anthropologist, likened it to being on cocaine. That's
31:51
Speaker 1: what the experience of falling in love is like. And
31:54
Speaker 1: this guy didn't have to do anything, Nancy. All he
31:57
Speaker 1: had to do was just sit behind his computer and
32:00
Speaker 1: click away and he reeled them in. You know, Dr Bethany,
32:04
Speaker 1: the last time I saw you, it was in l
32:06
Speaker 1: A and I of course was in a studio away
32:11
Speaker 1: from you, and we stepped out at the end of
32:13
Speaker 1: the program and I saw you in the hall and
32:15
Speaker 1: I went, what is happening? You looked more beautiful. Let
32:22
Speaker 1: me just say, um, you kind of glowed. Your waist
32:26
Speaker 1: was about Let me just go with three. Um. You
32:33
Speaker 1: look like you've been bodybuilding. Your skin was perfect, your
32:37
Speaker 1: hair was different, and you had on new clothes. I'm like, Oh,
32:41
Speaker 1: what's going on? Bethany? Take your own medicine. You told
32:46
Speaker 1: me you were in love. I was in love. I
32:48
Speaker 1: had just gotten married, and yes, it had a transformative power.
32:53
Speaker 1: So you can see what a strong pull this is
32:56
Speaker 1: for all of us. But when you look at the
32:58
Speaker 1: neurobiological aspect, when we fall in love, it's as if
33:02
Speaker 1: our brains go offline. Okay, everything is in the service
33:08
Speaker 1: of being connected to that other person. So when you
33:12
Speaker 1: think about what happened to these women, it's like they
33:15
Speaker 1: lost they lost their their capacity to think. But I
33:19
Speaker 1: have to think also that these women. I do not
33:23
Speaker 1: want to blame the victim. This guy was a huge
33:25
Speaker 1: con artist, but these women unconsciously set themselves up by
33:30
Speaker 1: hiding behind their own computers too. Because if you really
33:34
Speaker 1: want to meet somebody, go out and meet them in person,
33:37
Speaker 1: do not meet them online. Get to know them, get
33:39
Speaker 1: to know their their people, get to know their friends,
33:42
Speaker 1: get to know their families, get to know them in
33:44
Speaker 1: their social context. Whenever a guy isolates you, um via
33:50
Speaker 1: a computer, via technology, taking away on a vacation, not
33:54
Speaker 1: letting you meet the people in his life, it's really
33:57
Speaker 1: spells the beginning of disaster. Where social features and we
34:00
Speaker 1: need to meet in social environments. Listen to this, Shawn Walsh.
34:05
Speaker 1: One victim forked over. It actually hurts my mouth to
34:10
Speaker 1: say this. Two hundred and forty thousand dollars, including part
34:16
Speaker 1: of her four oh one k. Another woman took out
34:20
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollar loan to give to Pierce as
34:24
Speaker 1: an investment. Two hundred and forty thousand dollars. Guys, that's
34:30
Speaker 1: a quarter of a million dollars. That's a life savings.
34:32
Speaker 1: That's more than a life savings. I mean most people,
34:36
Speaker 1: most of America, and believe me, I've been there. I
34:39
Speaker 1: have so been there are one paycheck from eviction, one
34:44
Speaker 1: paycheck away from eviction. I remember Seawan in law school.
34:51
Speaker 1: I would have to drive through the bank teller the
34:53
Speaker 1: drive through and ask what my balance was. I was
34:57
Speaker 1: so broke before I would write a check. Know, we
35:00
Speaker 1: can get on the internet and look and I would
35:03
Speaker 1: go to uh see it was del Taco would have
35:07
Speaker 1: to white no three tacos for nine cents on Tuesday night.
35:12
Speaker 1: I would try to get through from Tuesday to Tuesday
35:16
Speaker 1: so I could go eat for ninety nine cents. I
35:19
Speaker 1: was literally looking through the bottom of the car and
35:23
Speaker 1: the car seat to try to find money to get
35:26
Speaker 1: the three tacos. I would actually write a check for
35:30
Speaker 1: ninety I actually wrote a check, would write a check
35:35
Speaker 1: for the Delta. I mean the dollar store was my
35:38
Speaker 1: best friend when I was in college. Was was have
35:43
Speaker 1: you been to Dollar Tree? I mean, I don't want
35:46
Speaker 1: to make an ad for anything but Dollar Tree. If
35:50
Speaker 1: you are not shopping at Dollar Tree, Shawn Walsh and
35:53
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, you are wasting a lot of money. Okay.
35:57
Speaker 1: I ripped my husband and me on the other night.
36:00
Speaker 1: He dared to come home with some toothpaste. I said,
36:02
Speaker 1: did you go to Dollar Tary? He's like no, I'm
36:05
Speaker 1: like okay, So anyway, I said, that's three dollars and fifty,
36:10
Speaker 1: said David, what are you thinking? Man? Okay? Now where
36:14
Speaker 1: were we go? Back to? You? Shan watch the two U.
36:18
Speaker 1: I know it's tragic, and I mean part of it
36:20
Speaker 1: for one k, which should be saved for your retirement.
36:23
Speaker 1: I mean he was pretending to be this wealthy businessman.
36:26
Speaker 1: He got access to their life savings, and he was
36:29
Speaker 1: using the money at casinos, nightclubs, and strip clubs. I
36:33
Speaker 1: mean it is hard. Wait, I didn't know the strip
36:35
Speaker 1: club part. Wait, he was taking their money and going
36:39
Speaker 1: to strip clubs. Did I just hear that exactly? Exactly
36:42
Speaker 1: strip clubs? And so once again, how much jail time
36:47
Speaker 1: can this guy get? What's the maximum he could possibly get?
36:51
Speaker 1: I mean, the judge has got to think about his
36:54
Speaker 1: or her daughter, their sister, their mom. I mean, these
36:58
Speaker 1: ladies say they were had a horrible spot in their life, vulnerable,
37:03
Speaker 1: just got to divorce one of them. Uh, and he
37:06
Speaker 1: quote wowed them. Pierce had the ability to take advantage
37:11
Speaker 1: of women because he was a smooth talker. You know,
37:13
Speaker 1: he reminds me a little bit of Scott Peterson the fertilizer,
37:17
Speaker 1: a salesman. Where I come from, we call it something different.
37:21
Speaker 1: But okay, that's another cannon worm. So what was his line, Sean,
37:25
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get Bethany to analyze this. What was his
37:27
Speaker 1: line to the lady? Oh, he would stage phone calls
37:30
Speaker 1: where he was doing deals and he looked impressive and
37:33
Speaker 1: he'd have them MANU, wait, wait, what do you mean
37:35
Speaker 1: by that? He'll slow down? Listen, You're like drinking from
37:40
Speaker 1: a fire, Hidra. I can't take it in that fast.
37:42
Speaker 1: What do you mean he was stage calls or he
37:44
Speaker 1: was quote doing deals. I gotta hear he. One victim
37:47
Speaker 1: said he'd be on the telephone doing deals, and she
37:51
Speaker 1: was impressed by that. And another victim said she'd go
37:54
Speaker 1: to his very well decked out home and his closet
37:57
Speaker 1: was organized, the shoes and the suits all color coordinated.
38:01
Speaker 1: There was no need to question it because he looked
38:04
Speaker 1: like he had it all. But nancy an organized closet.
38:09
Speaker 1: I remember, okay, pause, I remember this one guy I
38:13
Speaker 1: went out with. I saw in his closet and all
38:16
Speaker 1: the shoes were lined up like little ants, and they
38:20
Speaker 1: had those shoe things stuck in them to keep them
38:24
Speaker 1: in the right shape. Yeah, those those big wooden things
38:29
Speaker 1: that people see end a wooden fake foot in every shoe.
38:35
Speaker 1: And it was color what do you say, divided by
38:39
Speaker 1: colors and slaves. I turned myself around. Of course I
38:43
Speaker 1: ate because he had prepared his great meal okay, like
38:47
Speaker 1: the anal chef, and of course ate that homemade salad dressing.
38:52
Speaker 1: I still remember it. I mean he had a little
38:54
Speaker 1: um what the clear raps surround wrap over the bowls
38:58
Speaker 1: of seth. So naturally, then I said, okay, you know,
39:01
Speaker 1: I gotta go back to work. I got my framework right,
39:05
Speaker 1: out of there because I knew oil and water don't
39:08
Speaker 1: mix people, so I can can you just hear this,
39:11
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany what Sean is describing by hell In the background,
39:17
Speaker 1: one of the victims says, he had shoes of every color,
39:20
Speaker 1: and did you see the picture of him and the article,
39:23
Speaker 1: He's wearing this orange track suit. At first I thought
39:26
Speaker 1: it was a it was an orange jumpsuit, like he'd
39:28
Speaker 1: already been incarcerated. Then I realized it was a solid
39:32
Speaker 1: orange track suit, orange sweat pop, orange sweatpant. He looked
39:36
Speaker 1: like an orange. So this guy had a thing for
39:39
Speaker 1: looking at him right now, Bethani, Look, I blame you,
39:43
Speaker 1: Shawn Walsh from daily mail dot com, because I'm looking
39:45
Speaker 1: at daily mail dot com right now and you're look,
39:49
Speaker 1: it's your picture. Look at his shoes. They're perfect, they
39:52
Speaker 1: do not they're white, the socks are white. They do
39:55
Speaker 1: not have a single scuff nothing on had We're a
40:00
Speaker 1: million dollars he got from his victims to be able
40:02
Speaker 1: to buy those perfect shoes and the bad clothing in
40:07
Speaker 1: their closet and kept the good clothing in his closet. Yeah, exactly,
40:11
Speaker 1: he was something of the suits. I'd love to see
40:15
Speaker 1: inside his home. You think you can get pictures of
40:17
Speaker 1: that shown, because I would like to see his lovely,
40:19
Speaker 1: perfectly appointed home. Um listen to this. On a serious note,
40:27
Speaker 1: nearly fifty million Americans have tried dating apps, and the
40:32
Speaker 1: popularity continues to grow, and therefore the chances of you
40:38
Speaker 1: getting scammed continues to grow. The other night, Bethany I
40:43
Speaker 1: saw John David is addicted to Minecraft, and he always goes, Mom,
40:49
Speaker 1: I'm building a house for you to live in with me,
40:53
Speaker 1: and I'm making secret doors and safe rooms and trap escape.
40:57
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, that's a little freaky. I wonder where
40:58
Speaker 1: he got that from. But I mean, how can I
41:01
Speaker 1: argue with him about he's building a house for me.
41:03
Speaker 1: But there's a way that other people can talk to
41:07
Speaker 1: you on Minecraft. I don't know exactly what that is,
41:11
Speaker 1: but I always say, John David, that's not a little boy.
41:14
Speaker 1: That's a sixty year old, fat guy in a T
41:16
Speaker 1: shirt somewhere acting like he's a nine year old. Do
41:19
Speaker 1: you really want to talk to him? He gets off,
41:21
Speaker 1: freaked out and throws down the iPad. But it happens
41:25
Speaker 1: you are lulled into a sense of thinking, you know
41:29
Speaker 1: this person because you talked to them so many times
41:31
Speaker 1: a day online, and I guess you think, wow, he's
41:35
Speaker 1: online with me, How could he be with anybody else? Well?
41:38
Speaker 1: It even how how do you get sucked into it? Well,
41:40
Speaker 1: it happen. Get on a date. You know, even on
41:43
Speaker 1: a date, you feel that that this person is special
41:45
Speaker 1: above all others. They could be your soul mate. We
41:49
Speaker 1: lose all reason that that part of the Olympic system
41:53
Speaker 1: gets activated. So even more online it's going to get activated.
41:58
Speaker 1: I won't say what people live sing out there. Limit
42:01
Speaker 1: your interactions on the internet, keep it to five minutes,
42:05
Speaker 1: ten minutes. If somebody is not willing to spend time
42:07
Speaker 1: with you out in the real world, they don't really
42:10
Speaker 1: want a relationship with you. They just want something from you.
42:14
Speaker 1: They do not want to be with you. Somebody who
42:17
Speaker 1: wants to love you, wants to see you. One person
42:20
Speaker 1: wants to spend time across from the table, wants to
42:22
Speaker 1: make an you know, wants to have dinner with you,
42:25
Speaker 1: wants to make an investment with you and you. They're
42:28
Speaker 1: not going to ask for something from you, like money.
42:32
Speaker 1: And you know the stories I hear in my practice, Nancy,
42:34
Speaker 1: it's always um Look Um, I got a traffic ticket
42:38
Speaker 1: and I can't pay it. But I have a million
42:40
Speaker 1: dollars in Europe. I just can't get access to it.
42:43
Speaker 1: That that's sort of the storyline always. I have millions
42:46
Speaker 1: of dollars somewhere else, but um, it's tied up in
42:49
Speaker 1: a trust. It's um, I'm about to inherit it. Um
42:53
Speaker 1: My my company is going through a merger and acquisition.
42:57
Speaker 1: I can't get access to it right now, so you
42:59
Speaker 1: can please give me sort of a bridge loan. It's
43:02
Speaker 1: always a bridge loan. That's what I can. Bridge loan.
43:05
Speaker 1: A bridge loan. Yeah, oh, you know what, you know what.
43:08
Speaker 1: And there's a whole another can of worms. Um about
43:12
Speaker 1: long distance relationships when you don't know what they're doing.
43:15
Speaker 1: But this guy, Sean Walts says that he's a successful entrepreneur.
43:20
Speaker 1: The reality is In two thousand thirteen, he was released
43:23
Speaker 1: from prison after a thirteen year sentence for theft, trafficking
43:28
Speaker 1: and getting activity federal probation for a banking basil. Totally fancy.
43:36
Speaker 1: The takeaway here is Google, Google, Google. Google. If you're
43:39
Speaker 1: gonna be dating someone online, google them, look into them.
43:42
Speaker 1: Do it? Google Google Like look, I mean this was
43:47
Speaker 1: a career criminal and these poor ladies were taking advantage
43:50
Speaker 1: of Next time ladies. If you're listening, man, if you're listening,
43:53
Speaker 1: give me someone online and it sounds too good to
43:56
Speaker 1: be true. Guess what it is. It is Odd Walsh,
44:00
Speaker 1: Daily Mail dot Com. Dr Bethany Marshall, renowned psychologists joining
44:05
Speaker 1: me from l A. Guys, you're awesome. Nancy Graces Crime
44:10
Speaker 1: Story signing off, goodbye friend,