Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Rethinking Workforce Strategy for a More Resilient Future

Transcript

Rethinking Workforce Strategy for a More Resilient Future · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  Hi, everyone. This is Lucas Voss with Becker's
• 0:02
  Healthcare. Thanks so much for tuning in to
• 0:04
  the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. It's fantastic to
• 0:07
  have you. Today, we're talking about rethinking workforce
• 0:10
  strategy
• 0:11
  for a more resilient
• 0:13
  Future. And I'm so excited to have a
• 0:15
  fantastic group for this conversation here today. Three
• 0:19
  guests today. Cathy Conkey is she's the senior
• 0:21
  vice president of client services at Genovis Health.
• 0:24
  Jody Paul, she's the chief nursing officer, workforce
• 0:27
  outcomes and experience of care at Bon Secours
• 0:30
  Mercy Health. And Vince Dindia, he's the director
• 0:33
  of VMS and contingent workforce operations, also from
• 0:37
  Bon Secours Mercy Health. Kathy, Jody, and Winds,
• 0:39
  it's so great to have you. Thanks for
• 0:41
  being here today. It's great to have you.
• 0:42
  Thank you. Thanks. Thank you.
• 0:44
  Awesome to have you. And I wanna jump
• 0:46
  right in. We have a ton of stuff
• 0:49
  to talk about.
• 0:50
  Vince, I'd love to start off with you
• 0:52
  on this first question. There's a ton of
• 0:54
  stuff happening in that workforce
• 0:56
  sort of environment. Right? Demands continue to evolve.
• 1:00
  We talk about clinician burnout quite a bit,
• 1:02
  labor complexity. From your perspective right now, what
• 1:05
  are some of those biggest pressures
• 1:07
  health systems are facing today? And when you
• 1:10
  think about collaborative workforce models,
• 1:13
  how are they helping respond to some of
• 1:15
  these specific issues that we're seeing?
• 1:18
  Yeah. Thanks, Lucas. It's it's really interesting question
• 1:20
  because, you know, with the footprint that Bon
• 1:22
  Secours Mercy Health has across four states,
• 1:25
  in very different care communities, both in metro,
• 1:27
  rural, and some of some of those in
• 1:28
  between communities.
• 1:29
  We really have to look at, like you
• 1:31
  said, the complexity of what those pressures are
• 1:33
  and really drill down a subjective nature of
• 1:35
  how those impact our care delivery models and
• 1:37
  our units that, you know, we're really trying
• 1:39
  to put together workforce management solutions into.
• 1:43
  Really, when you look at it kind of
• 1:44
  from a global macro view, a lot of
• 1:45
  those pressures that we've seen consistently both within
• 1:48
  our organization and partner organizations are just that
• 1:50
  consistent high patient acuity,
• 1:52
  something that really hasn't alleviated over the past
• 1:55
  few years. And just knowing that what our
• 1:57
  clinicians are facing is a tougher workload and,
• 2:00
  really a lot sicker and more difficult patients
• 2:02
  than probably historically has been on that average
• 2:04
  level for a long time.
• 2:06
  That
• 2:07
  coincides directly with, increased and persistently high patient
• 2:11
  census and patient volume. Usually, we'll see kind
• 2:13
  of those seasonal peaks and valleys that are
• 2:15
  a little bit more pronounced, but it seems
• 2:17
  like it's just been kind of that that
• 2:18
  high level for most of the last twelve
• 2:20
  months rolling into, even the new the new
• 2:22
  year here, from a a patient workload perspective.
• 2:25
  But then you have operational pressures as well
• 2:27
  just coming from the things that are within
• 2:29
  or without of your control and then outside
• 2:30
  of, within the state you operate in from
• 2:33
  a national standpoint as well. Just some of
• 2:35
  those pressures around, financials and reimbursement processes and
• 2:38
  some of the complexities that that impact that.
• 2:41
  But there's there's a lot of different, you
• 2:42
  know, layers to it, but it really is,
• 2:44
  specific to what the surrounding community that you're
• 2:46
  serving really, presents to you.
• 2:49
  That's what makes it so special too and
• 2:51
  so complicated is the fact that it's intertwining
• 2:54
  so much.
• 2:55
  Jody, I I'm I'm assuming this is, similar
• 2:57
  for you as well. But from your perspective
• 2:59
  too, what does this look like? And when
• 3:01
  you think about, again, some of the workforce
• 3:02
  models
• 3:03
  that are in place right now, some of
• 3:05
  the collaborative pieces, how are they helping to
• 3:07
  address some of these issues, and what does
• 3:09
  this look like from from your point of
• 3:10
  view?
• 3:11
  Yeah. So collaborative workforce models really have helped
• 3:15
  us address,
• 3:16
  creating flexibility and resiliency for our staff. As
• 3:20
  Vince mentioned, one of our most significant pressures
• 3:23
  in the health care systems that we're facing
• 3:25
  today
• 3:26
  is that rise in a patient acuity.
• 3:29
  Patients are coming in sicker and more complex
• 3:31
  needs, and they were they require
• 3:34
  that, we not only address their medical
• 3:37
  conditions, but also their emotional
• 3:39
  and spiritual well-being.
• 3:41
  So that pressure continues with length of stay,
• 3:44
  and expectations
• 3:45
  really hasn't changed.
• 3:47
  So, you know, we've developed quite a few
• 3:49
  things at Bon Secours Mercy Health. We have
• 3:52
  an internal flow pool that goes across all
• 3:54
  four states into our 49 sites of care,
• 3:58
  and that really helped to support,
• 4:01
  and and,
• 4:03
  get to know what the needs are in
• 4:04
  those clinical roles.
• 4:06
  We've also had, agency that transitioned into permanent
• 4:10
  roles,
• 4:11
  and then we are designing care delivery models
• 4:14
  and different shift models to better align
• 4:17
  skills with our patient needs. And then, this
• 4:19
  also allows us to respond to rising acuity
• 4:22
  while remaining financially responsible
• 4:24
  and more supportive for our teams.
• 4:28
  Really a more proactive approach looking at it
• 4:31
  right away to see how we can solve
• 4:33
  some of these issues, which is so important.
• 4:34
  Kathy,
• 4:36
  from your perspective
• 4:37
  to, again, all of the conversations that you're
• 4:40
  having, your expertise
• 4:42
  with in working with a a number of
• 4:44
  organizations and and folks,
• 4:46
  How have you seen this shift
• 4:48
  in the past few years influence this and
• 4:51
  and how and especially in how organizations
• 4:53
  think about flexible staffing and workforce design?
• 4:57
  Yeah. I think there's a number of different
• 4:59
  things. I think the first thing, especially working
• 5:01
  with Bon Secours Mercy Health is,
• 5:04
  you know, every hospital is different, and every
• 5:07
  hospital will tell you they're different. Every market
• 5:09
  is different. And so when you're looking at
• 5:11
  an approach, you know, I like to even
• 5:13
  go down to the cost center level because
• 5:15
  one med surg unit could be different than
• 5:17
  another. So you really have to understand the
• 5:20
  idiosyncrasies
• 5:21
  of of the different hospitals.
• 5:24
  I think the second part of it is
• 5:25
  our workforce is changing. So if our average
• 5:28
  age of our nurses in their late fifties,
• 5:31
  but then you've got this new breed of
• 5:33
  nurses coming up, you know, how they run
• 5:36
  their life is different than the way our
• 5:38
  senior nurses,
• 5:39
  run their life. So
• 5:41
  we're looking at different shift combinations,
• 5:44
  you know, different ways to schedule,
• 5:46
  because, again, as Jody and Vince said, our,
• 5:49
  you know, our patients are sicker than they
• 5:50
  ever have been, and 12 is still a
• 5:53
  long shift three times a week for a
• 5:56
  lot of the people. So
• 5:57
  we're looking at that too. So there's a
• 5:59
  lot of different
• 6:01
  as we're going into kind of this this
• 6:03
  new era, there's a lot of different thought
• 6:05
  processes on how we're gonna take care of
• 6:07
  patients.
• 6:08
  And as you all know, this is a
• 6:10
  team game.
• 6:12
  You've all collaborated very closely in attacking some
• 6:15
  of these issues and working together on some
• 6:16
  of these things. And and, Vince, I'd love
• 6:18
  to start to start off with you on
• 6:20
  this one. What are some of those elements
• 6:22
  of the collaboration that stand out to you
• 6:24
  as meaningful
• 6:26
  for really supporting clinicians,
• 6:28
  but also strengthening
• 6:29
  overall
• 6:31
  workforce
• 6:31
  performance across the organization?
• 6:34
  Yeah. That it it's a great question to
• 6:35
  look into more deeply from an organizational level
• 6:38
  because I think something that we discovered over
• 6:40
  the past, say, five, six, seven years or
• 6:42
  so is that standardization in the structural processes
• 6:45
  that you have for tackling workforce challenges, really
• 6:48
  is the the biggest key. Right? You have
• 6:50
  to have obviously, there's a lot of different
• 6:52
  areas that need structured
• 6:56
  customized approaches. But when you have that structure
• 6:57
  from an organizational level coming down from your
• 6:59
  business leaders, collaborating with your clinical leaders, it's
• 7:01
  really where where you create that synergy to
• 7:03
  have a good decision making process. And then
• 7:05
  the trustworthiness that you have with external partners
• 7:07
  like we do with our partnership and Ingenivis
• 7:09
  to ensure that our contingent and supplemental
• 7:12
  workforce, is meeting the needs and is matched
• 7:14
  up essentially with what the requirements are of
• 7:17
  our internal units. So that there creates that
• 7:19
  synergy where there's kind of a blurred line
• 7:20
  between the workforce that's actually serving the care.
• 7:23
  We might have a larger agency presence in
• 7:25
  some areas, whereas some areas we might have
• 7:27
  a smaller agency presence where they're just in
• 7:28
  the flow pools, or we use a lot
• 7:30
  of our own internal flow pools in certain
• 7:31
  areas. But really, the patients don't
• 7:34
  shouldn't be able to tell the difference between
• 7:36
  that because we wanna make sure that that
• 7:37
  collaboration is so strong that those that are
• 7:39
  serving those patients and providing that care are
• 7:42
  doing it to the highest level that we
• 7:43
  expect, you know, to fulfill the mission of
• 7:45
  the ministry. So that collaboration between really goes
• 7:48
  on the clinical and business leaders finding that
• 7:50
  that common ground and ensuring that we have
• 7:52
  that structured decision making process that's informed by
• 7:55
  by data, by also past decision making,
• 7:58
  outcomes that we track, you know, over anywhere
• 8:00
  from quarterly to annually down to the, the
• 8:02
  pay period to pay period level that we
• 8:04
  have that we review with our leaders. So,
• 8:06
  really, yeah, it kinda starts at the top
• 8:08
  and trickles trickles down to the to most
• 8:10
  minute level, but, it's really about how that
• 8:12
  appears as the outcome to the patient.
• 8:15
  Well, and then that as you said, that
• 8:16
  synergy
• 8:17
  in turn enables more holistic care.
• 8:20
  Absolutely. It improves the holistic piece. Jody, same
• 8:23
  question for you here. What elements of that
• 8:26
  collaboration stand out for you, and and how
• 8:28
  have you seen it really strengthen,
• 8:30
  again, not only clinicians, but also then again
• 8:33
  workforce performance across the organization?
• 8:36
  Yeah. So as Vince said,
• 8:38
  I I what's great is I'm clinical in
• 8:40
  Vince's business, which has been wonderful for our
• 8:43
  partnership even at the system level. So we've
• 8:46
  put as a structure in, in a really
• 8:49
  system level process,
• 8:51
  which we empower our local,
• 8:53
  CFOs and CNOs and COOs to operate with
• 8:56
  trust and transparency.
• 8:58
  And that shared accountability.
• 9:00
  Another key has been, you know, the external
• 9:02
  partnership has been great,
• 9:04
  and they've really streamlined from my nursing leadership.
• 9:08
  They've helped remove a lot of that administrative
• 9:11
  burden on agency staffing from frontline managers. So
• 9:15
  I can have my managers out, you know,
• 9:17
  coaching and mentoring,
• 9:19
  new nurses and supporting those clinicians
• 9:22
  rather than managing contracts and logistics.
• 9:25
  They really focus on outcomes, improvement of experience
• 9:29
  of care, you know, falls, pressure injuries, getting
• 9:32
  all of those outcomes in line.
• 9:34
  So together, these elements, you know, we've really
• 9:36
  are strengthening the workforce performance
• 9:39
  and created more of a sustainability model for
• 9:41
  our teams, and Genovese has been great. They're
• 9:44
  a pipeline for, actually, for our,
• 9:46
  hiring. So we've hired a lot of those
• 9:48
  agency nurses
• 9:50
  as our nurses,
• 9:51
  you know, on the front lines.
• 9:53
  And in turn again leads me to our
• 9:55
  next question because, again, it improves resiliency
• 9:58
  across the organization too. It makes the organization,
• 10:00
  both clinically and from a business perspective, more
• 10:03
  resilient, I feel like, to to change into
• 10:05
  some of these pressures that we're feeling. And
• 10:06
  and, Kathy, I'd love to come to you
• 10:08
  on this for the next question as well.
• 10:11
  Again, we know that many health centers are
• 10:13
  focused on, you know, sustainable staffing models and,
• 10:15
  that improve nurse nurse experience, patient outcomes, operational
• 10:19
  stability. Those are the things that we hear
• 10:20
  about quite a bit. Right? What are some
• 10:22
  of the lessons that have emerged from your
• 10:24
  work that could help other leaders build more
• 10:28
  resilient
• 10:29
  workforce strategies and build more resiliency
• 10:32
  for the business, but also on the clinical
• 10:35
  side? I think there's a couple of different
• 10:37
  things. You know, the first thing just as
• 10:39
  we're all kinda moving into 2026,
• 10:42
  we're still coming
• 10:44
  down off this mountain from from COVID.
• 10:47
  And so that was one of the things
• 10:49
  why our relationship came together. We were really
• 10:52
  trying to get back on point of just
• 10:55
  spend and and how many nurses we're going
• 10:58
  to need. So that was one of the
• 11:00
  the first, you know, driving,
• 11:03
  initiatives that we wanted to do. Now with
• 11:06
  you go, you know, going into 2025,
• 11:09
  it's really looking at,
• 11:11
  volumes,
• 11:12
  census, what the trends are, and then really
• 11:15
  trying to use the data that we have
• 11:17
  to see, you know, is there an historical
• 11:20
  look at being able to better plan?
• 11:23
  You know, we do see,
• 11:26
  census kinda go the way of history, and
• 11:28
  and we're seeing it it kinda level out
• 11:30
  since COVID, but we still have to look
• 11:31
  at it. So I think there's that. I
• 11:33
  think it's it's really understanding what we want
• 11:36
  our full time complement and our part time
• 11:38
  complement to be. You you you don't staff
• 11:40
  at a 100% of what your capacity is
• 11:42
  at the hospital. You kinda do this seventy
• 11:45
  thirty mix, and so really working with leaders
• 11:47
  on that. And then just really trying to
• 11:50
  understand how can we make it more flexible,
• 11:53
  you know, within the hospital, and that's having
• 11:56
  nurses work more than one unit. You know,
• 11:58
  they have different skills and really just trying
• 12:00
  to instead of moving patients around, moving nurses
• 12:03
  around. So it's really just understanding that census
• 12:06
  and and really looking at data and and
• 12:09
  and how we can make those decisions.
• 12:11
  Yeah. It becomes an enabler of the process
• 12:12
  that we've just highlighted throughout our conversation, which
• 12:12
  is really, really key. Well, the
• 12:16
  conversation, which is really, really key. Well, Vince
• 12:18
  and Jody, I I wanna touch on the
• 12:20
  future a little bit, both from a business
• 12:22
  perspective and the clinical perspective.
• 12:24
  Vince, I I'd love to start off with
• 12:26
  you on this, from the business perspective.
• 12:28
  What's next for your partnership with Ingenivis, and
• 12:31
  what are you excited about here for 2026
• 12:34
  and beyond, certainly? Yeah. We're we're absolutely very
• 12:36
  excited about our continued partnership with Ingenivis. You
• 12:39
  know, we've been in lockstep for just over
• 12:42
  three years now in this, managed
• 12:44
  managed partnership for agency contract labor,
• 12:46
  with with collaborative,
• 12:48
  management over our technology that supports the process
• 12:50
  as well. And we're really just excited by
• 12:52
  continuing to modernize the program. You know, we've
• 12:54
  had, created a lot of sustainability in this
• 12:56
  program from creating contract for with our suppliers,
• 12:58
  with our agency suppliers, that creates a lot
• 13:01
  of favorability for both the clinician themselves
• 13:03
  to create opportunities for them, to have that
• 13:05
  flexibility to really choose their workforce path, but
• 13:08
  also creates cost containment and operational excellence for
• 13:11
  our operators at the, you know, the ministry
• 13:13
  level so that we know that the contract
• 13:15
  terms terms that are, you know, within these
• 13:17
  assignments for these, you know, still high cost
• 13:19
  contract labor resources that, we are doing this
• 13:22
  in a, you know, reputable manner that creates
• 13:24
  integrity for the decisions we're making even though
• 13:26
  it is looked at as premium or supplemental
• 13:28
  labor that's, you know, a high cost. But
• 13:30
  what we're looking forward to doing is just
• 13:32
  continuing to modernize that program to ensure that
• 13:34
  the terms of our partnerships and the terms
• 13:36
  of the partnerships with our suppliers is,
• 13:38
  up to speed with what the industry is
• 13:40
  demanding, but also positioning us for future growth
• 13:43
  and future flexibility with the way that the
• 13:45
  workforce continues to change.
• 13:47
  Jody made a really good point earlier about
• 13:48
  the relationship that we have with between our
• 13:50
  CNOs at the market level and our managers
• 13:52
  at the market level with the Ingenivis team.
• 13:54
  And I think that over the past three
• 13:56
  years, we've created just a very, very strong
• 13:57
  level of trust to where
• 13:59
  it feels like one collaborative team. It doesn't
• 14:01
  feel like an external partner. And I think
• 14:03
  that's something that a lot of health systems
• 14:04
  can take away is that, you know, when
• 14:05
  you do create those really, really strong external
• 14:07
  partnerships with the trustworthiness with your clinical or
• 14:10
  business leaders, then it really just creates one
• 14:13
  well well oiled machine that creates good outcomes.
• 14:15
  So we're just excited about continuing to expand
• 14:18
  on that and step into even more areas
• 14:19
  where we can support our our workforce even
• 14:21
  outside of just nursing. Yeah. Absolutely. Jody, same
• 14:24
  question for you from your perspective. What does
• 14:26
  this look like, and and what are you
• 14:27
  excited about?
• 14:28
  Yeah. So one additional area worth highlighting for
• 14:31
  me is, we have been an early adopter
• 14:33
  of care delivery models that are different, particularly
• 14:36
  in the LPN integrated model.
• 14:38
  And as we look moving forward into 2026,
• 14:41
  we know we have to change up that
• 14:43
  primary care and look at med surge and
• 14:46
  and really focus on what's smart for our
• 14:48
  patients and for our caregivers.
• 14:50
  So Ingenivis has helped us look at LPNs,
• 14:53
  how can we integrate them in, how can
• 14:55
  we take that to the next level by,
• 14:57
  you know, activating across multiple care areas,
• 15:00
  and then, you know, be very strategic about
• 15:03
  our, you know, the use of agency
• 15:05
  and recruitment and allowing us to pilot models
• 15:08
  very quickly and validate outcomes.
• 15:10
  And then just continue that to identify that
• 15:13
  strong pipeline of candidates,
• 15:15
  because it's not just nursing. We're talking all
• 15:17
  ancillary
• 15:18
  folks that we need within within our our
• 15:21
  facilities.
• 15:23
  Absolutely.
• 15:24
  Well, Kathy, Jody, and Vince, it's so fantastic
• 15:26
  to have you all on. I I wanna
• 15:28
  turn the floor over to you for my
• 15:29
  last question here. I think it's an important
• 15:32
  one. Kathy, we'll we'll start off with you.
• 15:34
  Anything else that that you wanna share that
• 15:36
  we might have not touched on that might
• 15:37
  be important for for folks that are listening
• 15:39
  today?
• 15:40
  No. I think it's, we really enjoy the
• 15:42
  partnership. We enjoy talking about, you know, what's
• 15:46
  kinda happening in the different markets.
• 15:48
  This this project really is a best practice
• 15:51
  model.
• 15:52
  Von Secours Mercy Health is one of the
• 15:54
  largest
• 15:54
  entities in the country. So being able to
• 15:57
  have that transparency
• 15:59
  and the standardization,
• 16:01
  you know, when across across all the markets
• 16:03
  really is is best practice. So we look
• 16:06
  forward to continuing to bring down cost,
• 16:10
  you know, delivering the best health care. I
• 16:12
  think what Jody said about the care delivery,
• 16:15
  that's gonna be what everyone's gonna be faced
• 16:17
  with. And so being able to pilot and
• 16:20
  and look at patient outcomes is gonna be
• 16:21
  key.
• 16:23
  Vince, anything else that you'd like to add?
• 16:24
  Anything else that you wanna share that our
• 16:26
  audience might benefit from? No. I think it's
• 16:28
  just the continued growth and and flexibility that's
• 16:30
  gonna be demanded of of us both as
• 16:32
  an organization health care organization and then, you
• 16:35
  know, Cathy's team at Agenovus.
• 16:37
  Just ensuring that we have to position ourselves
• 16:39
  to respond to whatever the demands are. And
• 16:41
  I feel that we're on a path where
• 16:43
  we've learned a lot over the past three
• 16:44
  or four years, and we're really excited on,
• 16:46
  positioning ourselves in the future to be more
• 16:48
  scalable and respond to those items, but also
• 16:50
  be proactive with, supporting technology both internally with
• 16:54
  our clinical workflows and then at the same
• 16:56
  time from an external workforce perspective to ensure
• 16:58
  that we're continuing to make, very, very thorough
• 17:00
  data informed decisions. So it's really just about
• 17:03
  strengthening kind of the foundation of what we
• 17:04
  already have, and, we're really, really excited about
• 17:06
  getting into the new year to do that.
• 17:07
  Absolutely. Jody, over to you. Yeah. I would
• 17:10
  I my recommendation,
• 17:12
  for others out there, find a partner that
• 17:15
  you can truly trust and that their goals
• 17:18
  are to ensure your patients receive the best
• 17:21
  high quality care, and that's what we have
• 17:23
  with Ingenivis. So I truly appreciate our partnership.
• 17:26
  They're constantly looking for ways for us to
• 17:29
  do it better,
• 17:30
  and and brainstorm with us. So as strategic
• 17:33
  partner, it's it's been great.
• 17:36
  Certainly sounds like an exciting 2026, and we'll
• 17:39
  we'll have to meet again at the end
• 17:41
  of next year, to discuss what all happened
• 17:43
  throughout the year. Well, Kathy, Jody, and Vince,
• 17:45
  thank you again for your time and insights
• 17:47
  today. It's so fantastic to have you all
• 17:49
  on. We also want to thank our podcast
• 17:51
  sponsor, Ingenevis, and you could tune into more
• 17:54
  podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our podcast
• 17:56
  page at beckershospitalreview.com.