Latest / Beautifully Complex / 346: Teaching Kids Friendship Skills, with Jennifer Licate

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346: Teaching Kids Friendship Skills, with Jennifer Licate · Beautifully Complex

0:01
Speaker 1: So it's that struggle of being okay with letting some
0:05
Speaker 1: friendships go and being okay with not fitting in with
0:08
Speaker 1: every single person because no one is going to click
0:11
Speaker 1: with every single person. It's just not human nature. So
0:15
Speaker 1: just knowing that that doesn't mean that you don't have value.
0:19
Speaker 1: You just have to find your people. And it's okay
0:21
Speaker 1: to respect other kids but maybe not want to spend
0:24
Speaker 1: time with them outside of school.
0:29
Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
0:32
Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
0:36
Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
0:41
Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
0:44
Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
0:49
Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
0:53
Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Hello parents, Welcome, come
1:00
Speaker 2: back to Beautifully Complex. I have here with me Jennifer Lacatti,
1:04
Speaker 2: who is a school counselor and a children's book author,
1:08
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about teaching friendship skills to
1:12
Speaker 2: our nerdivergent kids. What does that look like, What tools
1:15
Speaker 2: and strategies can we implement, and how much do we
1:20
Speaker 2: become a part of that process and how much do
1:23
Speaker 2: we let our kids figure it out on their own.
1:27
Speaker 2: I think these are questions that I run across so
1:29
Speaker 2: often in my work with parents of NERD virgent kids. So, Jennifer,
1:34
Speaker 2: will you start by letting everybody know a little more
1:36
Speaker 2: about who you are and what you do.
1:38
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm happy to thank you for having me today.
1:41
Speaker 1: So I am a school counselor. I've been a school
1:44
Speaker 1: counselor for fourteen years. I currently still work in the schools.
1:48
Speaker 1: I pivoted a little bit where now I work as
1:51
Speaker 1: a career counselor. But the experience I've had as a
1:55
Speaker 1: school counselor has really led me to creating these series
1:59
Speaker 1: of books. So I have a series of book called
2:02
Speaker 1: Navigating Friendships and that includes eight books, and then I
2:06
Speaker 1: also have an additional series called Nurturing Independence, which has
2:11
Speaker 1: one book title under it with another one coming this
2:15
Speaker 1: September August.
2:16
Speaker 2: Time exciting. Yeah, there's so many different titles and different
2:22
Speaker 2: topics that you're addressing in these books, and I think
2:24
Speaker 2: it's so useful for every kid because a lot of
2:28
Speaker 2: times kids don't want to hear it's just lecture them
2:30
Speaker 2: about things I know, and so I'm always recommending social
2:36
Speaker 2: stories and books on different topics like this four kids,
2:39
Speaker 2: because I think it's really useful. They don't really realize
2:42
Speaker 2: they're learning that way.
2:43
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, it's engaging and they don't have to
2:47
Speaker 1: be vulnerable and talk about their own experiences. They can
2:50
Speaker 1: learn through talking about the characters and then apply it
2:53
Speaker 1: to their lives. So you're right. It creates empathy in
2:58
Speaker 1: telling them about a situation that may maybe they haven't encountered,
3:02
Speaker 1: but it also helps them to apply skills that they've
3:05
Speaker 1: learned to their own life when they encounter situations like
3:09
Speaker 1: ones that the characters are experiencing. So I feel like
3:12
Speaker 1: there's so many great avenues for these books to really
3:15
Speaker 1: touch kids and help them grow in their compassion and
3:18
Speaker 1: their empathy and their ability to work with others. So
3:22
Speaker 1: really it's really my passion project. I think it's just
3:26
Speaker 1: so beneficial to kids and very a great resource for
3:30
Speaker 1: parents to have and educators. So yeah, yeah, I'm excited
3:34
Speaker 1: to talk about it with you.
3:35
Speaker 2: Awesome. Can we start with just talking about what kind
3:39
Speaker 2: of things kids might tell you about friendship that we
3:43
Speaker 2: adults don't always hear or understand or get right well.
3:49
Speaker 1: When I work as a school counselor, they will tell
3:52
Speaker 1: me things that happen in real time, and sometimes when
3:56
Speaker 1: you have your child coming home at the end of
3:58
Speaker 1: the day, it's felt like a lifetime ago that this
4:01
Speaker 1: interaction happened. So sometimes you don't get to hear about it,
4:05
Speaker 1: or it's mentioned very briefly and you don't have all
4:07
Speaker 1: the pieces to it. So that's how parents sometimes don't
4:10
Speaker 1: have the full picture of what's going on until maybe
4:14
Speaker 1: it's an escalated event and then they're telling you when
4:17
Speaker 1: you hadn't realized it had gotten so pervasive and it
4:21
Speaker 1: was such a problem for your child. So I sometimes
4:24
Speaker 1: will have students come down and talk to me about
4:28
Speaker 1: little disagreements that they're having, Like you know, things a
4:32
Speaker 1: lot at recess that happen where they're playing with someone
4:37
Speaker 1: and then they turn and play with someone else and
4:39
Speaker 1: then they're not sure what to do, or maybe they're
4:42
Speaker 1: told they can't play in that game and they're not
4:45
Speaker 1: sure how to navigate that. So there's a lot of
4:48
Speaker 1: different nuances that happened during the school day that I
4:52
Speaker 1: think by the time it gets to parents, they don't
4:55
Speaker 1: hear all those interactions. Plus, as a school counselor, I'm
4:58
Speaker 1: able to go to the teacher and say, what are
5:01
Speaker 1: you seeing? You know, is there some background to this?
5:04
Speaker 1: Was there anything that led into this conversation or interaction
5:09
Speaker 1: that I might not know that the teacher has seen,
5:12
Speaker 1: you know, build up over the past few weeks. Mm hmm.
5:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. What kind of friendship challenges are you seeing most
5:20
Speaker 2: often in schools right now?
5:22
Speaker 1: So most often I'm seeing just the typical. It doesn't
5:27
Speaker 1: vary sadly from from time to time. It's what we
5:33
Speaker 1: experienced where you just are not sure how to read
5:37
Speaker 1: other kids' reactions that sometimes the hurt feelings and why
5:42
Speaker 1: am I being left out of this? And why is
5:45
Speaker 1: she saying I can't play today but yesterday I could play?
5:48
Speaker 1: And why am I always in this game being made
5:52
Speaker 1: to be kind of like the bad role? You know
5:55
Speaker 1: how in every game outside there's one person who has
5:58
Speaker 1: to be the chaser and everyone else gets to be
6:00
Speaker 1: grouped together and be in this fun group, and you
6:04
Speaker 1: always are signed to be the chaser. So a lot
6:06
Speaker 1: of those power struggles that happen are still occurring, and
6:11
Speaker 1: kids aren't really sure when they should stick up for themselves,
6:15
Speaker 1: when they should keep trying, when they should look to
6:19
Speaker 1: other friends that maybe don't make them feel bad about
6:22
Speaker 1: themselves and don't make them feel like they are kind
6:25
Speaker 1: of auditioning to be a member of this friend group.
6:30
Speaker 1: So all of those things are usually what I see
6:33
Speaker 1: from kids just talking about those interactions and not being
6:37
Speaker 1: sure when it's crossing a line and they need to
6:40
Speaker 1: stand up for themselves, and when it's just a normal
6:43
Speaker 1: part of play and establishing the group norms, and when
6:46
Speaker 1: they just can be a participant of the group who
6:49
Speaker 1: doesn't always get to have the dominant role, which is
6:53
Speaker 1: fine too. You know, everyone has their turn of you know,
6:56
Speaker 1: let this person talk, they have something going on. You know,
6:59
Speaker 1: there's all of that in play too. The children are
7:03
Speaker 1: dealing with and trying to understand.
7:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that understanding piece is more difficult
7:09
Speaker 2: for a lot of our neurodivergent kids. They struggle more
7:13
Speaker 2: with reading nonverbal cues and body language and tona voice
7:18
Speaker 2: and interpreting what kids are saying and what that means.
7:22
Speaker 2: Like you were just mentioning as well, And I wonder
7:26
Speaker 2: if you have ideas or strategies on how to help
7:30
Speaker 2: them to build that skill of reading all of the
7:34
Speaker 2: nonverbal stuff with their peers, to then have that sort
7:39
Speaker 2: of foundational piece to make the friendship and interactions a
7:43
Speaker 2: little easier.
7:44
Speaker 1: I would think the reading the nonverbal skills I feel
7:48
Speaker 1: like has to be done very literal with kids, with
7:52
Speaker 1: all kids, but neurodivergent kids especially, because if you just
7:56
Speaker 1: say something like we'll pay attention to what their faces
7:59
Speaker 1: saying and pay attention to their body language, they're not
8:03
Speaker 1: going to understand that. I feel like they need actual examples,
8:07
Speaker 1: and I like to do real facial examples, actual photographs
8:12
Speaker 1: as opposed to cartoons, because sometimes that can be a
8:15
Speaker 1: little bit too exaggerated for them and they aren't able
8:19
Speaker 1: to apply it to real world. So I try to
8:23
Speaker 1: show them, you know, what does this facial expression look like? Okay,
8:26
Speaker 1: that seems frustrated, you know, and go through some of
8:28
Speaker 1: these things and also explain that you don't always have
8:32
Speaker 1: all the answers, like one facial expression could be frustrated
8:36
Speaker 1: or tired or annoyed, and to just be sensitive to that.
8:41
Speaker 1: They don't know exactly what this person is feeling, but
8:45
Speaker 1: they do know if the experience feels negative or positive,
8:50
Speaker 1: if they're reading that people are happy with their most
8:53
Speaker 1: recent statement, and if they're not seeing that people are happy,
8:57
Speaker 1: it's okay to jump in and say, did that offend you?
9:01
Speaker 1: You know you seem annoyed to talk to people about
9:04
Speaker 1: that and not let a disagreement get too far along
9:09
Speaker 1: without addressing it too.
9:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember when my son was in middle school
9:14
Speaker 2: and he was carpolling with some other boys and he
9:17
Speaker 2: would come in and swear that they weren't his friends,
9:21
Speaker 2: and they were so mean, and we had to talk
9:23
Speaker 2: about how if they're laughing while they say something, they're
9:27
Speaker 2: probably teasing, not meaning it literally. But he was so literal. Yeah,
9:31
Speaker 2: but he did learn it. You know, he's a young
9:33
Speaker 2: adult now and he has learned all of that. He's
9:36
Speaker 2: very good at it now actually. But it was something
9:38
Speaker 2: we had to be intentional about and focus on.
9:42
Speaker 1: That's what I Intentional is the perfect word. And I
9:45
Speaker 1: feel like pointing out their own behaviors, especially you as
9:48
Speaker 1: a parent, if you see it. Sometimes I'd point out
9:51
Speaker 1: own behaviors in my own children, like, well, you were
9:55
Speaker 1: on your phone the whole time, and they tried to
9:57
Speaker 1: talk to you a couple of times. How do you
9:59
Speaker 1: think it feel to your friend when they're trying to
10:02
Speaker 1: talk to you and you're on your phone. So being
10:04
Speaker 1: very intentional about teaching in the moment, because it's hard
10:09
Speaker 1: to teach them in these settings when they're not really
10:12
Speaker 1: feeling the feelings that go along with the social interactions.
10:16
Speaker 1: But if you do it right after the social interactions,
10:19
Speaker 1: it's going to be able to be more well applied
10:22
Speaker 1: to their life and their future interactions.
10:25
Speaker 2: And if we're trying to address something right when it happens.
10:30
Speaker 2: Kids spend a lot of their days at school, Right,
10:32
Speaker 2: can parents request that they meet with a school counselor
10:37
Speaker 2: or that the school counselor might help them with navigating
10:40
Speaker 2: and building some of these skills.
10:42
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's a great first step. If you're
10:45
Speaker 1: worried about your child and maybe you don't know what
10:47
Speaker 1: it is that they're stressed with the academics. Is it
10:51
Speaker 1: that they're feeling a general sense of anxiety, Are they
10:54
Speaker 1: having social struggles? You know, as a parent, you really
10:57
Speaker 1: don't know. You don't know what specifically is going on
11:00
Speaker 1: with your child because they're not really always very good
11:04
Speaker 1: at articulating it because it just feels overwhelming and a
11:07
Speaker 1: lot to your child and they don't know how to
11:10
Speaker 1: explain exactly what's happening. So I feel like a school
11:12
Speaker 1: counselor is a great first step to set up a meeting.
11:16
Speaker 1: The school counselor might often include the teacher because the
11:19
Speaker 1: teacher sees interactions all day long between the kids and
11:23
Speaker 1: can speak more specifically to the interactions. But the school
11:27
Speaker 1: counselor can talk to you about how they've talked to
11:29
Speaker 1: your child and what the child your child has shared
11:33
Speaker 1: with them. And I also think books are a really
11:36
Speaker 1: great way to bridge that conversation with your child, because
11:40
Speaker 1: then the school counselor can recommend to you, oh, I
11:43
Speaker 1: have some really great books that have helped children understand
11:46
Speaker 1: how they might have a participant role in what they're
11:52
Speaker 1: doing with this interaction, but they might not see it.
11:55
Speaker 1: They might know that they're well intentioned and that they
11:58
Speaker 1: would interpret that, but it'll be good for them to
12:01
Speaker 1: see through the books, Oh there's a way I'm interacting
12:04
Speaker 1: that people might not take it the way I intended,
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Speaker 1: and they can learn some of these skills from the books.
12:09
Speaker 1: So that would be a really great way that the
12:11
Speaker 1: school counselor can help you create more learning at home
12:15
Speaker 1: and create the environment where you can talk about it
12:17
Speaker 1: at home and have some coping skills and have a
12:20
Speaker 1: way to check in with your child and see how
12:23
Speaker 1: it's going as you work through this problem and support
12:26
Speaker 1: your child.
12:30
Speaker 2: When my son was young, I spent years trying to
12:33
Speaker 2: track all the variables to determine what was actually working medications, therapies, routines,
12:40
Speaker 2: school accommodations, but there was no system or structure to
12:44
Speaker 2: help me capture it all. I dreamed of an app
12:47
Speaker 2: that could help me see the patterns that I knew
12:49
Speaker 2: were there but I wasn't finding on my own. And
12:53
Speaker 2: that's exactly what Village Metrics does. Here's how it works.
12:57
Speaker 2: You open the app, press record and talk about your
13:01
Speaker 2: child's day. That's it. The AI pulls out patterns, it
13:04
Speaker 2: tracks what's working, and it connects insights from everyone in
13:09
Speaker 2: your child's life. The therapist, teachers, other caregivers are all
13:13
Speaker 2: in one place. Within weeks, you'll see things that you
13:17
Speaker 2: have been missing, what's triggering the meltdowns or shutdowns, what's
13:21
Speaker 2: actually making a difference. You finally stop second guessing yourself
13:25
Speaker 2: because now you know, now you have the data. It
13:29
Speaker 2: takes two minutes to set up, and there's a free trial,
13:32
Speaker 2: so you've got nothing to lose. Go to villagemetrics dot
13:36
Speaker 2: com and try it today. That's villagemetrics dot Com. Speaking
13:51
Speaker 2: of books, I want to talk a little bit about
13:53
Speaker 2: your book, Am I Weird? Okay, because I think that
13:57
Speaker 2: our neurodivergent kids often get labeled that way, yes, or
14:01
Speaker 2: the kids call them weird, and it's very hurtful often
14:06
Speaker 2: for them, right, And so I would love to explore
14:10
Speaker 2: a little bit what your book, Am I Weird is
14:12
Speaker 2: about how it helps kids through this particular struggle with peers.
14:18
Speaker 1: So in the book, I have Eva who has always
14:22
Speaker 1: been friends with these group of girls. And in the book,
14:26
Speaker 1: actually her mom really supports her being friends with this
14:30
Speaker 1: specific group of girls because she's friends with one of
14:34
Speaker 1: the girl's moms. So it is hard for Eva to
14:37
Speaker 1: break away from this group that when she was really little,
14:41
Speaker 1: the friendships come easier. It's like the differences and kids
14:45
Speaker 1: aren't as obvious when they're little, and they can just
14:48
Speaker 1: parallel play and play games together and everyone kind of
14:51
Speaker 1: is interested in the same things. But as Eva gets older,
14:55
Speaker 1: she's noticing that she doesn't have a lot in common
14:57
Speaker 1: with those girls and how they're talking is feeling mean
15:01
Speaker 1: to her and it's not. It just doesn't resonate with her.
15:04
Speaker 1: It's not how she wants to act, and she's feeling
15:08
Speaker 1: this struggle with herself. Should I change to be more
15:12
Speaker 1: like these girls so I fit in and am included
15:15
Speaker 1: in this group that I was once included in? Or
15:18
Speaker 1: do I stay true to who I am and find
15:22
Speaker 1: friends that really value the same things I value, and
15:25
Speaker 1: value me and value my you know, my contributions and
15:29
Speaker 1: what I have to say. So it's that struggle of
15:33
Speaker 1: being okay with letting some friendships go and being okay
15:36
Speaker 1: with not fitting in with every single person, because no
15:39
Speaker 1: one is going to click with every single person. It's
15:42
Speaker 1: just not human nature. So just knowing that that doesn't
15:46
Speaker 1: mean that you don't have value. You just have to
15:49
Speaker 1: find your people. And it's okay to respect other kids
15:52
Speaker 1: but maybe not want to spend time with them outside
15:55
Speaker 1: of school. So it's it's a book that takes you
15:58
Speaker 1: through that journey of her figuring that out and her
16:02
Speaker 1: feeling confident in who she is and finding friends that
16:06
Speaker 1: make her feel confident and not so insecure about everything.
16:10
Speaker 1: She says to the group.
16:13
Speaker 2: You said, it addresses should I change to fit?
16:16
Speaker 1: Yeah?
16:17
Speaker 2: And this is a huge topic in our community because
16:20
Speaker 2: a lot of kids are masking who they really are
16:24
Speaker 2: to try to fit in.
16:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:26
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering how you would advise or guide parents
16:32
Speaker 2: to navigate that to help kids be authentic but also
16:38
Speaker 2: still have friendships too. I think it's a challenge.
16:42
Speaker 1: It is a challenge, and I feel like as parents,
16:44
Speaker 1: you know your child best, so it's a dance, right,
16:48
Speaker 1: because you do want them to be kind to everyone.
16:51
Speaker 1: You do want them like if they're offending people by
16:55
Speaker 1: over sharing or over talking about something they're interested in
17:00
Speaker 1: and their friends don't feel like they get a chance
17:02
Speaker 1: to share, maybe that feels disrespectful to the friends that
17:06
Speaker 1: they feel like, well, you're always talking about something you're
17:09
Speaker 1: interested in, and you're not understanding that I'm not interested
17:12
Speaker 1: in that, and I want to talk about some other things.
17:15
Speaker 1: That is a time where I feel like parents should
17:18
Speaker 1: step in and say how that would feel, and even
17:21
Speaker 1: role play with your child, you know, talk about the
17:24
Speaker 1: taxes or something super boring to a child so that
17:28
Speaker 1: they could understand. Oh, I wanted to say something to
17:31
Speaker 1: my parent, but they just kept talking and talking and talking,
17:34
Speaker 1: and I didn't have a chance, so they can feel
17:36
Speaker 1: how that feels. But then you know, also, like I said,
17:41
Speaker 1: doing the dance with your child, where if they are
17:44
Speaker 1: in a group of friends and people aren't respecting them
17:48
Speaker 1: or aren't respecting who they are, then help them find
17:51
Speaker 1: other friends. Help them get involved in activities that they're
17:55
Speaker 1: really interested in. If they don't like sports and it's
17:58
Speaker 1: never really clicked for them, but they're interested in stem
18:01
Speaker 1: and robotics and things like that, get them involved in
18:05
Speaker 1: some of those activities so that they can meet some
18:08
Speaker 1: friends who have similar interests, and there's a good way
18:11
Speaker 1: to build a friendship from some of those shared interests.
18:15
Speaker 1: So it is a little bit of a dance. As
18:17
Speaker 1: a parent, you're just trying to figure it out because
18:19
Speaker 1: you're figuring out, Okay, how much is my child involved
18:22
Speaker 1: in making the other kids feel comfortable because you want
18:26
Speaker 1: everyone to feel comfortable. Is my child being excluded? Is
18:30
Speaker 1: my child feeling sad in these situations? So it does
18:34
Speaker 1: take a little bit of exploring and probing to guide
18:37
Speaker 1: your child in the best way. And that's why I
18:39
Speaker 1: think it's really great to have a partnership with the school,
18:42
Speaker 1: the school counselor, and your child's teachers to understand what
18:46
Speaker 1: they're seeing from your child too, because as a parent,
18:50
Speaker 1: we're only observing maybe our child or maybe we have
18:53
Speaker 1: a couple of other children, But these educators are seeing
18:57
Speaker 1: all the kids all day long and seeing how your
19:00
Speaker 1: child interacts with them and can share some really valuable
19:03
Speaker 1: information for you to help your child.
19:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, use those resources. Yeah, you know, I think we
19:12
Speaker 2: think to ask the teacher, like the classroom teacher, what's
19:14
Speaker 2: going on with our kid, But we don't think to
19:17
Speaker 2: bring other people in, like the school counselor or somebody
19:20
Speaker 2: else that might also have experience with our kid. And
19:24
Speaker 2: I think multiple viewpoints is also helpful. I agree, because
19:28
Speaker 2: people understand different things in different ways. You know, the
19:30
Speaker 2: school counselor is going to look at those interactions maybe
19:33
Speaker 2: a little differently than the teacher would, and vice versa.
19:36
Speaker 2: So yeah, always get as much input as you can
19:41
Speaker 2: when you can't be there.
19:42
Speaker 1: I agree.
19:44
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about teaching social
19:48
Speaker 2: skills versus teaching kind of compliance to fit in. Okay,
19:54
Speaker 2: how do those things look different? Because I think they
19:57
Speaker 2: are very different, right, But sometimes because we want the
20:02
Speaker 2: best of our kids, and we want them to be accepted.
20:05
Speaker 2: We lean more towards trying to make them fit right
20:08
Speaker 2: instead of leaning into teaching skills and helping them make
20:15
Speaker 2: make some connections.
20:17
Speaker 1: I think that's why empathy is so important, because if
20:22
Speaker 1: you teach your child to be empathetic, they are going
20:27
Speaker 1: to have the social skills and they're going to also
20:30
Speaker 1: be able to identify when things feel disrespectful and mean
20:35
Speaker 1: to them. Because if you're teaching compliance and you're teaching
20:39
Speaker 1: being kind across the board, which you should be kind
20:42
Speaker 1: across the board, but sometimes you're in situations where people
20:46
Speaker 1: are not being kind to you. So then you do
20:49
Speaker 1: have to equip your child with the skills to be
20:52
Speaker 1: able to recognize that to say I don't want to
20:55
Speaker 1: do that, or that was rude, I'm gonna you know,
20:59
Speaker 1: or even and just like leave the situation and go
21:02
Speaker 1: hang out with a different group of kids. Each child
21:05
Speaker 1: will have a different personality, and what feels right to
21:09
Speaker 1: you as a parent might not be how they would
21:11
Speaker 1: interact with the interaction that feels disrespectful. Some kids are
21:15
Speaker 1: good making a joke of it, Some kids are good
21:18
Speaker 1: just calling it out. Some just want to remove themselves
21:21
Speaker 1: from the situation without really addressing it and saying that
21:24
Speaker 1: it felt disrespectful. Some kids just like shift lunch tables
21:28
Speaker 1: and you know, don't really talk about why and just say, oh,
21:31
Speaker 1: I decided to sit at a different table. So that's
21:34
Speaker 1: why I think the empathy is so important, because it
21:37
Speaker 1: gives them the permission to stand up for themselves when
21:41
Speaker 1: it is disrespectful. But the kindness is such an important
21:45
Speaker 1: piece too. But if if only kindness is there, sometimes
21:49
Speaker 1: I think kids can be misled to accept some unkind
21:52
Speaker 1: treatment to them just in the name of being so
21:56
Speaker 1: kind to other people. And I feel like that kind
21:59
Speaker 1: of breaks my heart because I don't want kids to
22:02
Speaker 1: be in a situation where they're being disrespected and they
22:05
Speaker 1: feel like they're doing the right thing, but maybe it's
22:08
Speaker 1: never going to work with this certain group of kids
22:11
Speaker 1: that are not being kind.
22:15
Speaker 2: And along those same lines, like I think about and
22:18
Speaker 2: I'm sure I was guilty of this starting out as
22:20
Speaker 2: a parent too, of trying to manage the interactions so
22:25
Speaker 2: that they would absolutely be successful and jumping in at
22:31
Speaker 2: the first sign that something might be going amiss or
22:35
Speaker 2: there might be some struggle or challenge, showing up. Where
22:39
Speaker 2: is the balance how much should we kind of insert
22:43
Speaker 2: ourselves to help them, and how much do we let
22:48
Speaker 2: sort of the natural flow of things happen.
22:52
Speaker 1: I think this is another dance. I mean, I think
22:55
Speaker 1: you watch from afar and don't step in until it's necessary.
22:59
Speaker 1: Obviously something harmful or really hurtful is going on, you
23:04
Speaker 1: want to step in. But I think I try to
23:08
Speaker 1: use empathy as how I would like people to interact
23:12
Speaker 1: with my children. So if another parent obviously has their
23:16
Speaker 1: child's best interest at heart, I would want them to
23:20
Speaker 1: let them kind of figure it out on their own
23:23
Speaker 1: and figuring out the playing together and the being respectful
23:26
Speaker 1: with each other. And there is some teasing that we
23:29
Speaker 1: as parents don't really understand if it's teasing when it's
23:33
Speaker 1: happening right away, or if it's mean spirited. So I
23:37
Speaker 1: do think you have to take a little bit of
23:39
Speaker 1: time before you jump in and use those situations that
23:43
Speaker 1: you observe to talk to your child. I feel like
23:46
Speaker 1: when you talk to children, it's hard for them to
23:49
Speaker 1: not have a conversation with you if you're talking about
23:52
Speaker 1: things that actually happen, Like I always call them data points,
23:55
Speaker 1: which I don't know that they're actually data points. But
23:57
Speaker 1: if you say I heard Bobby's to you, you know
24:01
Speaker 1: this or that? Did that hurt your feelings? Did you
24:05
Speaker 1: feel like that was mean? And then they'll say, oh, no,
24:08
Speaker 1: like you know, we joke about that sometimes, or you know, yeah,
24:12
Speaker 1: it did kind of hurt my feelings, and then you
24:15
Speaker 1: know which direction to go. So I think it's really
24:18
Speaker 1: important to see where your child is in to know
24:23
Speaker 1: how much to jump in and how much not to,
24:25
Speaker 1: because you don't want your child to feel embarrassed that
24:28
Speaker 1: you're jumping in too much and hurt their relationships in
24:31
Speaker 1: that way where the other kids don't want to be around,
24:34
Speaker 1: you know, Bobby's mom because she's always jumping in and
24:38
Speaker 1: kind of hovering over them. So it is such a dance,
24:42
Speaker 1: and I would just take the cues from your child
24:45
Speaker 1: and step in only when you need to, but also
24:48
Speaker 1: making sure that you're having the conversations with your child
24:51
Speaker 1: after the playdate or the interaction.
24:55
Speaker 2: To not making assumptions about what's going on and how
24:58
Speaker 2: are feeling about what's going on, which I think is
25:01
Speaker 2: just a natural thing that we do in that sort
25:05
Speaker 2: of protection mode parenting. Is there a common mistake that
25:10
Speaker 2: you see or a common pitfall that parents tend to
25:13
Speaker 2: sort of trip over when trying to help kids build
25:16
Speaker 2: friendships and build these skills.
25:18
Speaker 1: I think the common pitfall is what we just talked about,
25:22
Speaker 1: not knowing that you know, all the kids are learning,
25:27
Speaker 1: like you are focused on your child, but they're all
25:30
Speaker 1: learning how to be good friends. They're all learning how
25:33
Speaker 1: to be good people. So just because you see someone
25:36
Speaker 1: act maybe unkind, I mean, you hate to think that
25:40
Speaker 1: that happens with kids, but just because you see someone
25:43
Speaker 1: act unkind or maybe step over a line one time,
25:47
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that that's who they are as a kid.
25:50
Speaker 1: They're finding their way too, So just to give everyone grace,
25:54
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's the best way to interact
25:57
Speaker 1: as a parent, To give the other parents grace, to
25:59
Speaker 1: get the other children grace, and that it will show
26:04
Speaker 1: who your child should be with over time. But the
26:07
Speaker 1: one or two interactions might not give you all the
26:09
Speaker 1: information you need to make a generalization about a child.
26:15
Speaker 1: So that's the main thing I would think is just
26:17
Speaker 1: to give it time, because especially if your child really
26:20
Speaker 1: likes this kid, you do want to give it time
26:23
Speaker 1: to let that relationship flourish and not say, oh, no,
26:27
Speaker 1: that's a mean kid, because it's like, you know, they're
26:31
Speaker 1: all learning. I just try to share that with parents
26:34
Speaker 1: to give that grace to the other kids too, just
26:37
Speaker 1: like you would want other parents to give it to
26:38
Speaker 1: your child if they did something that felt a little
26:42
Speaker 1: off to them.
26:44
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, totally. Where can everyone find your work and
26:49
Speaker 2: your books and connect with you further and learn more
26:52
Speaker 2: from you?
26:53
Speaker 1: I have a website called stories by Jennifer dot com,
26:58
Speaker 1: so that has all my books, and my books focus
27:02
Speaker 1: on friendship skills losing friends. I have one called I
27:06
Speaker 1: Lost my BFF, So a lot of these friendship skills
27:09
Speaker 1: that we're talking about and how to start new friendships
27:12
Speaker 1: and how to identify friends that you want to spend
27:15
Speaker 1: time with. So I'm on Stories by Jennifer dot com
27:19
Speaker 1: and then I'm also on Instagram Stories by Jennifer Lakati
27:24
Speaker 1: and then Facebook under the same name too, and then
27:27
Speaker 1: on my website, I have my email address which is
27:31
Speaker 1: Lakatijennifer at gmail dot com, so you can email me
27:34
Speaker 1: with any questions you have or questions about the books,
27:38
Speaker 1: so I'm always accessible to people.
27:41
Speaker 2: Amazing, there's lots of titles there, there's lots of things
27:44
Speaker 2: that your kin might be experiencing that you may find
27:47
Speaker 2: a book to help them to learn more about what's
27:50
Speaker 2: going on and how to navigate it. So I really
27:52
Speaker 2: appreciate that. And I'm going to link everything up that
27:55
Speaker 2: you just mentioned in the show notes for everybody at
27:58
Speaker 2: parentingadhdan Autism dot com so that it's easy for them
28:01
Speaker 2: to find you and connect and check out your books
28:05
Speaker 2: and your work. I appreciate you so much for being
28:08
Speaker 2: here and helping kids to navigate these tricky things. As
28:13
Speaker 2: a kid who grew up with social anxiety and I
28:16
Speaker 2: still have social anxiety, but you know, navigating stuff was
28:19
Speaker 2: really difficult and I didn't know what was going on.
28:22
Speaker 2: We didn't you know, my parents didn't have awareness at
28:24
Speaker 2: that time about it. And so I'm thinking, like, how
28:27
Speaker 2: great would it have been if I had had something
28:32
Speaker 2: to say? I was not the only one, you know.
28:34
Speaker 2: And that's the other thing I think your books. Do
28:37
Speaker 2: you know if you're reading the book, am I weird
28:39
Speaker 2: there's a book? Because you're not the only one who's
28:41
Speaker 2: ever wondered that or been told that, right? I know.
28:45
Speaker 1: I love saying that to kids too, like, look, there's
28:47
Speaker 1: a book. You're not the only one who struggles with
28:50
Speaker 1: this or feels this way.
28:53
Speaker 2: Love that. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome
28:55
Speaker 2: sharing some of your time and wisdom. I will see
28:58
Speaker 2: everybody on the next episode. Take good care. I see you.
29:03
Speaker 2: You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
29:06
Speaker 2: to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
29:10
Speaker 2: share it with someone who needs it and leave a
29:12
Speaker 2: quick review so others can find this support too. When
29:16
Speaker 2: you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
29:19
Speaker 2: here with the tools, coaching, and community to help you
29:23
Speaker 2: raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
29:28
Speaker 2: regulated kids dot com.