Latest / The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show / E167 Fixing the VA Access Crisis with Sean O’Connor

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E167 Fixing the VA Access Crisis with Sean O’Connor · The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show

0:11
Hello and welcome back to the Advancing
0:13
Healthcare Innovation Show. I am your
0:15
host, Michael Samatinos, and if you're
0:17
new to us, it's great to have you here.
0:19
Welcome. We're really excited because we
0:22
are having some just amazing
0:23
conversations with real leaders that are
0:26
painstakingly reshaping the future of
0:29
health. And we're really focused and
0:31
passionate about a few different areas.
0:32
We're passionate about innovation,
0:34
access, leadership, and innovation
0:37
adoption. And if it's your first time
0:40
tuning in, let me just kind of take a
0:41
quick step back and tell you a little
0:43
bit more about what we're trying to get
0:45
done here. So our focus is is bringing
0:47
real stories of real leaders that are
0:50
actually innovating and getting things
0:52
done and giving them the opportunity and
0:54
space to be able to share their stories,
0:57
share their wins, share their learnings
0:59
with our community and ultimately with
1:02
the world. If you haven't had the
1:03
opportunity to check out any of our
1:05
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1:07
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1:09
consuming it, please hit the subscribe
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interviews come directly to you. So
1:17
today's guest is someone who really kind
1:19
of carries a lot of depth that an
1:23
experience that you can't fake. Um Shan
1:25
O' Conor is a retired Navy officer and
1:29
president co-founder of Dexare. But what
1:32
makes Shawn stand out? It's not
1:35
necessarily his title. It's the way he
1:37
shows up. It's how he understands how
1:40
access is much, much deeper than most
1:44
people ever really understand. It's not
1:46
a buzzword. It's really a lifeline. And
1:49
over the last several weeks, Sean's been
1:51
on Capitol Hill talking with more than a
1:54
dozen members of Congress about one
1:56
thing. How can the VA modernize access
2:00
to care, especially mental health? And
2:04
that's not a small conversation. Anyone
2:07
who's spent time in the veteran
2:09
community knows how hard it is to
2:12
navigate systems, schedules, providers,
2:16
nonetheless, geography. So, and this is
2:19
even more magnified especially in rural
2:21
areas. And the reality is is that we
2:24
lose
2:26
18 veterans a day to suicide.
2:30
Like that hits hard. Um especially with
2:34
a number of my friends and some that I
2:36
know that have unfortunately are part of
2:38
that. That hits all of us. And what I
2:41
appreciate about Shawn is that he's
2:43
coming at this from a place of service
2:46
uh from experience. So from building Dex
2:50
Care into a platform that helps people
2:52
get to the right care without biting the
2:56
system every step of the way and he sees
2:59
the gaps, the waste and the friction and
3:02
he's focused on, you know, putting
3:03
together solutions that make the
3:05
existing system work better. So that's
3:09
what today's conversation is going to be
3:11
be about. It's not just about
3:12
innovation. It's about stewardship. It's
3:14
about service and honoring the men and
3:17
women who have served this country uh by
3:20
building access that actually works for
3:22
them. So Sean, it's great to see you.
3:25
Welcome to the show.
3:27
>> Uh Michael, I'm incredibly humbled by
3:29
that introduction. Uh thank you for
3:31
having me. It's a privilege to talk to
3:32
you. I really appreciate all that you're
3:33
doing to try to drive awareness around
3:35
innovation and access to health care for
3:37
those in most need. So I'm really
3:38
looking forward to this conversation.
3:40
Incredibly grateful for that
3:41
introduction. You've got me blushing
3:42
here. Happy to join.
3:44
Well, we recorded it, so you'll be able
3:46
to use it, you know, for your next time
3:47
you kind of walk in. So, feel free to
3:49
use it. Listen, um, before we kind of
3:51
dig in, when people hear, you know,
3:53
people hear retired Navy officer turned
3:57
health tech founder, um, they don't they
4:01
don't always kind of connect those dots.
4:04
What's maybe the story behind those two
4:07
worlds and how they sort of shape the
4:09
way that you see access and leadership
4:12
today?
4:15
>> Yeah, I I would say your point of kind
4:17
of in the intro on service is kind of
4:19
probably the foundation of all that. And
4:20
a point of clarification, I'm um
4:22
separated from the Navy. I didn't do the
4:23
full 20 years, but I had a career in the
4:25
Navy that transitioned into the health
4:27
tech. Um I still have friends that that
4:29
are still active duty. They're getting
4:30
ready to retire. But I think for me from
4:32
a foundation perspective on those
4:33
bridges, a lot of it was just how I was
4:36
how I was raised. Similar to you, grew
4:37
up in the in the in the Northeast. I'm
4:39
third generation military. Both my
4:41
grandfathers fought and served in World
4:42
War II. My dad's father had a Purple
4:44
Heart from being shot down in the
4:46
Pacific during World War II. My father
4:47
and uncles all served in the Vietnam era
4:49
in the Navy and Marine Corps. And I'm
4:51
I'm a 911 Navy vet. So just the way I
4:54
was raised over time, typical Irish
4:56
immigrant family. everyone came over and
4:57
either a cop, fireman, military and
4:59
service and you know being there for
5:02
others in need has just been kind of
5:03
ingrained in our family from the
5:04
beginning. Um a lot of great leadership
5:07
lessons that kind of served from there
5:08
to the foundation of the military and
5:10
then you know I got out of the military
5:12
shortly after the 911. The opa was crazy
5:14
high. I was I was on active duty when
5:16
911 happened and we were pretty much
5:18
gone for two and a half years without
5:20
coming home for anything more than a
5:22
four month st. So that point in time it
5:24
was kind of time to transition out. Uh I
5:27
got drawn to healthcare through some
5:28
some personal experiences maybe we'll
5:30
talk about here later on and then got in
5:32
the healthcare space and wanted to be in
5:34
the innovation space throughout that
5:35
time. So my first and so I've done
5:37
basically done three companies since I
5:38
spun out of or since I came out of the
5:40
military. All our ventureback companies
5:42
spun out of healthcare systems. The
5:44
first was a
5:45
>> company out of Stanford that became
5:46
Intuitive Surgical and the Da Vinci
5:47
robot and spent 10 years with them and
5:49
then spun a company out at University of
5:50
Washington that was focused on helping
5:52
surgeons approve surgical technique and
5:54
Johnson and Johnson bought that company
5:56
and then really became more enamored
5:58
with the access issue around healthcare
6:01
towards this point in my career and the
6:03
Providence team was working on something
6:04
their digital innovation incubators
6:06
really trying to make it easier for
6:07
patients to find and get to the right
6:09
care at the right time for the right
6:10
reason and that's incredibly complex
6:12
through
6:12
>> what
6:14
But it was a worthy kind of personal
6:15
mission for me and a really complicated
6:17
problem in healthcare. So joined the
6:20
Providence incubator, wound up spinning
6:21
Dexar out. It's really continuing every
6:23
day to try to advance that um access
6:26
initiative for the for the most
6:28
vulnerable and the most in need to try
6:29
to help them get to the care they need
6:31
when they need it, how they need it, and
6:32
where they need it. And it's a very
6:34
personal issue and I think it's a very
6:35
big issue broadly for for our country as
6:37
a whole.
6:38
>> Yeah. I'm just curious. I mean, you you
6:40
spend you've been sitting with members
6:42
of Congress and you've been talking
6:43
about, you know, modernizing the VA
6:46
experience. How much of your time is
6:48
spent, you know, around, I'll just say,
6:50
you know, advocacy? And I think what
6:53
what's the one thing that, you know,
6:55
folks don't really fully understand
6:58
about the VA
7:01
uh care experience? Um I'm just curious,
7:04
you know, hearing it from someone that's
7:06
kind of inside the system.
7:09
Yeah, I I'd say um on the advocacy
7:13
question,
7:15
a pretty healthy portion of my time over
7:17
the last six months as I've gotten more
7:18
enamored with trying to point our
7:21
technology solution to helping those in
7:23
need, i.e. the veteran community. You
7:24
brought up uh suicide and mental health
7:26
on the beginning. So when I when I
7:28
transitioned from the military in 2005,
7:32
it seems like it was just yesterday, but
7:34
the VA received roughly $21 billion for
7:36
their mission. In that same year, 17 men
7:39
and women, brothers and sisters,
7:41
friends, cousins, whatever took their
7:43
life every single day to suicide. Fast
7:46
forward 20 years later, NA received $121
7:48
billion of sports mission. And as you
7:50
mentioned in the intro, that number
7:51
hasn't changed. We've lost more men and
7:53
women to suicide than we've lost in 911
7:56
combat war and all the kind of
7:57
subsequent battles in Afghanistan post
7:59
911 which is a tragedy that we don't
8:00
talk about here nearly enough. I've lost
8:02
classmates and friends that have taken
8:04
their life due to this. So as our
8:06
technology stack has solved some really
8:08
complex healthcare access issues for
8:09
systems like province and others. I
8:12
started just got on my board and team
8:14
said, "Hey, I want to push this at the
8:15
VA
8:16
>> and see can we help, you know, change
8:18
that that that that narrative and mental
8:20
health is a really complicated issue.
8:22
It's not just a technology
8:24
that people being homeless to not being
8:25
registered in the VA and all that other
8:27
stuff." But
8:28
>> the experience I have right now in
8:29
trying to get into an appointment in in
8:31
the Seattle VA is very complicated. It
8:33
takes a long time and it's it's very
8:35
process and and intensive and it takes
8:37
forever to even get something and like
8:39
basic online scheduling isn't even
8:40
available to vets. So, so with that, uh,
8:43
I I've been gracious enough to have good
8:45
leadership around me, and good investors
8:46
around me that are also supportive of
8:48
his mission. I've been given the time to
8:49
go and, you know, go to go to meet the
8:51
ESVAC team and go to the Hill and start
8:53
to understand, hey, how are you
8:55
implementing the Dole Act? You know, how
8:56
can we help in some of these visions
8:58
that don't have basic online scheduling
9:00
or don't have the ability from a
9:01
modernization or interoperability to
9:03
share capacity and make access to
9:05
veterans, whether it's within the VA or
9:06
something called community care easier.
9:08
So, we're spending a lot of time talking
9:09
about these issues to say, "Hey, there's
9:11
smart technology folks out there, we're
9:13
just one of them, that want to help
9:14
advance this cause and and just do
9:16
whatever we can to help, you know, move
9:18
this needle because the the the number
9:20
one thing to me that drives me that when
9:22
people don't get access to care when and
9:24
where they need it, the end result most
9:26
catastrophically is that number you said
9:27
in the beginning where people just don't
9:30
feel there's hope and when there's no
9:32
hope and they lose hope and give up."
9:33
Like that's just a tragedy for for us to
9:35
be going into 2026 and over two decades
9:38
that number hasn't moved. We got to do
9:40
better, man. Like that.
9:41
>> Yeah.
9:42
>> Deserves better.
9:44
>> 18 18 veterans lost per day. Like that's
9:48
not data. Like those are people.
9:51
>> Those are people. And it just sounds as
9:53
though that you know that has really
9:55
sort of shaped the way that you approach
9:57
your work now. And I mentioned earlier
10:00
about how access issues hit um harder in
10:04
rural areas. I I remember going to a
10:09
a Sanford Health rural summit and at the
10:13
time I believe it was um the head of the
10:16
VA was chatting and he was giving some
10:19
statistics and I don't have them pulled
10:20
in front of me but just talking about
10:23
how the number of
10:26
folks that are um in rural areas that
10:29
are veteran it's like it's like a big
10:30
number I guess is there a moment or an
10:33
experience that made that particular
10:35
challenge like very crystal clear for
10:38
you. Um, anything you can share on that?
10:40
I think would be great.
10:42
>> Yeah, I I
10:45
it's a challenge. I think a lot of folks
10:47
when they come back, you know, they they
10:49
uh they want to get off the grid and
10:51
kind of go in some of these areas to to
10:52
decompress. And so we there is a large
10:54
population of folks that go to Montana,
10:56
Alaska, and some of these areas where
10:58
>> community is very strong. um and getting
11:01
access to timeless care in some of those
11:03
places to your point is really difficult
11:04
to do for a lot of reasons. So, you
11:07
know, we've been spending more time
11:08
trying to highlight some of that in
11:10
addition to some of the issues around
11:11
homelessness and people not engaging and
11:13
not not, you know, the stigmatism around
11:16
raising your hand to to help when you
11:17
when you need care,
11:19
>> but not opening up the funnel for people
11:22
to get in through some, you know,
11:23
virtual technologies, digital
11:25
technologies.
11:26
We're in the digital age of healthcare.
11:28
So these solutions need to be, you know,
11:30
more broadly educated and pushed out
11:32
there to try to engage some of these
11:33
folks that don't have the ability to
11:35
drive 15 minutes to a clinic. When
11:36
you're in, you know, eastern Alaska,
11:39
it's, you know, maybe eight hours to get
11:40
to a clinic. And
11:42
>> yeah,
11:42
>> so so if we don't open up some of those
11:44
avenues, you know, some of this stuff,
11:46
these issues start to exasperate
11:48
themselves over time. And that's a
11:49
that's a extremely vulnerable population
11:52
when it comes to this and a difficult to
11:54
engage population as well for a number
11:55
of factors.
11:58
you know, just sort of thinking back to
11:59
your your military training career,
12:02
you've done, you know, I'll call it
12:04
three professional tours of duty as you
12:06
kind of alluded to. Uh I'm just sort of
12:08
curious what part of the military
12:10
culture kind of sticks around with you
12:13
as you try to infuse that into Dexare
12:15
that sort of helps thrive while you're
12:18
in health tech. Um, and and what part of
12:21
that military culture? Um, curious if
12:24
you had to unlearn any of it as you've
12:26
been in your professional tours of duty.
12:29
>> My my wife says I still need to unlearn
12:31
some of it when we start bossing people
12:32
around the house on launching.
12:35
Uh, but I'll answer the question.
12:37
>> And that's an order. And that's an
12:39
order.
12:40
>> Not an order. I've learned who the drill
12:42
chain of command is in the house
12:44
on the stuff that's that has stuck. I
12:47
think it's you know you develop this
12:49
sense where um where something taught
12:51
early early in the Navy career it's
12:53
called the fifth law of the navy that
12:54
says on the strength of one link in the
12:56
cable dependeth the might of the chain
12:58
who knows when that may have be tested
12:59
so live without the bear of strain which
13:01
essentially like your team is only as
13:02
strong as your weakest link and you
13:04
never want to be the weakest link to let
13:06
the team down. So in terms of the the
13:08
lessons that have pulled forward, you
13:10
know, it's always about how do you show
13:11
up, how are you prepared, do what you
13:13
say you're going to do, empower your
13:14
people to do good things, and then, you
13:16
know, never never be the weak link in
13:18
the chain lets everyone else down so you
13:20
can continue to grow, right? So I think
13:21
there's a ton of I've had a lot of great
13:24
mentors in the military, a lot of great
13:25
operators in the military that have
13:27
helped shape my career, but the
13:28
fundamental things have always been take
13:30
care of your people, listen to your
13:32
people, and do what you say you're going
13:34
to do and do when you do it when you say
13:35
you're going to do it. And if you do
13:36
those things, it sounds cliche, but
13:39
every company I've been at, if we've
13:40
done those things, you kind of build a
13:41
good company, you build a good culture,
13:43
and you kind of figure things out
13:44
because the people know that their voice
13:46
is respected, their opinion matters,
13:48
we're listening on this together, we're
13:50
all trying to solve this problem
13:51
together. We're all working hard and
13:53
rowing at the same time. No one's going,
13:54
no one's doing this. And when you have
13:56
those things, you have good people, you
13:58
have a good mission, you're trying to
13:59
solve a good problem, you tend to kind
14:01
of figure it out, even in environments
14:02
that are as hard as, as healthcare.
14:05
Yeah, I mean you've done this now your
14:07
third time here. I'm just sort of
14:09
curious like take me back to maybe the
14:11
the early days of Dexare because there's
14:13
there's some that are listening here
14:14
that are maybe earlier in their
14:15
entrepreneurial journey. Um when you
14:18
guys were kind of back inside of
14:20
Providence um I guess what was that
14:22
spark? Do you remember when there was a
14:24
moment when they went from hey this is
14:26
kind of an interesting idea to hey we
14:28
need to do this like we need to build
14:29
this?
14:32
Yeah, I'll um
14:35
maybe I'll tell like a quick personal
14:36
story like why I wanted to do this over
14:39
everything else.
14:41
>> I was just telling this uh I was trying
14:43
to get too emotional here. I just told
14:45
the story to uh for the first time at a
14:47
company meeting recently, but my
14:50
my daughter's in middle school now and
14:53
she had an assignment this year that
14:55
was, hey, go interview some people on
14:57
911 and just ask them what happened and
14:59
what they remember about that day. It's
15:01
funny like the kids in these classics.
15:02
Somebody didn't even know what 911 was.
15:04
>> I knew I didn't know when. Isn't that
15:05
crazy? I knew I was old. I was talking
15:07
to someone a couple weeks ago and you
15:09
know saying what were you on 911?
15:10
They're like I was like 6 months old. I
15:12
don't remember it. And I was like oh my
15:13
god I'm old.
15:14
>> Yeah. I've had the same realization. So
15:16
I was like baby girl that's a really
15:18
important day for our family. So I told
15:20
the story you know I was on active duty
15:21
that day. I was on a carrier um out in
15:24
San Diego and we were actually doing
15:26
qualifying mission or something called
15:28
carrier qualifications which is
15:29
basically the the airwing practices and
15:31
landing taken off in the carrier before
15:32
you go on deployment. So, we were off
15:34
the coast of San Diego doing that and we
15:36
were close enough with the shore where
15:38
the closed circuit TV picked up the
15:39
local news station and we had just got
15:41
down with breakfast and saw the first
15:43
plane hit the tower and it was you know
15:46
being a noraster was like holy cow like
15:48
what's going like like someone fly a
15:49
like a a private plane in the tower and
15:52
then shortly after the second one hit
15:53
and then the ship went to general
15:55
quarters and we launched all our
15:57
aircraft and shut down all communication
15:59
on the ship and we did something called
16:00
combat air patrol where all the aircraft
16:02
were going up down the west coast and
16:04
they were giving the orders if the
16:05
commercial airlines don't engage and
16:06
respond you shoot them down out of the
16:08
sky which is a total surreal moment and
16:10
I had a bunch of buddies that were
16:11
pilots that day and telling stories
16:12
around just dude they're like flying and
16:15
the kids are waving on the plane and
16:16
they're like been told if they don't
16:17
respond you shoot down the plane and so
16:19
it was a a crazy day we were out to see
16:22
for about 10 days and then we came back
16:25
on a Sunday uh and I remember it was the
16:28
the Sunday when the NFL restarted and
16:30
everyone's kind of run out with the flag
16:31
and I just got home and kind collapsed
16:33
and like they let the surrealness of the
16:34
moment hit me and I hadn't been able to
16:36
talk to my family at all obviously since
16:39
that since that day because the ship was
16:40
shut down from a communication
16:42
standpoint running around. So I call
16:44
home just to talk to my parents and told
16:47
my mom, "Hey, everything's okay. We're
16:49
safe. You know, things are going to
16:50
happen here. We're going to be gone here
16:52
pretty quickly and I think you know
16:53
where we're going." That whole that
16:54
whole kind of deal. I said, "Hey, can I
16:56
talk to dad?" And she's like, "Well, I
16:58
haven't heard from your father in five
17:00
days." Like, "What do you mean? Where's
17:01
Where's Pop? Well, my dad was a Port
17:04
Authority police officer um in in
17:07
Newark, and he had fortunately retired
17:09
when I went to the Naval Academy, so we
17:10
have to pay for college. But when 911
17:13
happened, uh 23 of the men and women he
17:15
served with were killed when the when
17:17
the second tower came down. So, he went
17:19
back to work ground zero and spent
17:22
several weeks working ground zero,
17:23
pulling bodies out of there. and his job
17:25
was to notify next to kin when they
17:26
found the mother or father or whoever it
17:28
was for for any police officers or port
17:31
authority folks that were at the ground
17:32
zero and none of those guys worried
17:34
about protective gear or you know
17:37
wearing masks or that stuff as they're
17:38
breathing all stuff in. So post 911 he
17:41
was one of the fortunate enough ones to
17:42
make it but he's had 18 911 related
17:44
illnesses since luckily he's still with
17:46
us but he's been in and out of hospitals
17:48
for 18 years and and that's a huge
17:51
strain on the family for a lot of
17:53
reasons as you can imagine both from a
17:54
PTSD perspective.
17:56
>> Yeah man
17:56
>> talk about that date once um and just
18:00
from a healthcare perspective and how
18:01
you navigate some of the stuff and all
18:02
the clinical care gaps. So after
18:05
struggling with him over the last 10
18:07
years of trying to get him into
18:08
appointments, figure out where he needs
18:09
to go, how does he get healthcare
18:11
access, how come these doctors aren't
18:13
talking to each other, how come the
18:14
records aren't passing over? Why is it
18:15
so hard to get him into an appointment?
18:17
>> When the team came and said, "Hey, we're
18:19
working on this thing that's around
18:20
making access to care easier for
18:22
consumers. Uh, sign me up. Like I'm I'm
18:25
all about this." like we struggle
18:27
through this with my father and all the
18:29
other, you know, friends and family
18:30
members that have been going through
18:31
some of these really complicated related
18:33
related illnesses. So, it's not a pie in
18:36
the sky like, hey, we're going to solve
18:37
the cure for cancer kind of thing. I
18:38
knew like access is not a single silver
18:40
bullet.
18:40
>> Yeah. Yeah.
18:41
>> It was an opportunity to focus on this
18:43
and help people like that and just
18:45
seeing the pain that families go through
18:47
when you can't get access to care. You
18:49
don't know where to go, you don't know
18:50
how to get there, it takes too long.
18:51
Anything we can do to improve that is
18:53
important. whether it's that community.
18:55
I've been fortunate enough now to have
18:56
the time to point that at the VA
18:58
community, but it that was what drove me
19:00
to want to do this. So, when we came to
19:02
Providence, you know, Providence was a
19:04
large healthcare system that had a lot
19:06
of complicated data sets and a lot of
19:08
different EMRs and just the data not
19:09
talking to each other and poor data in
19:11
is poor data outs and you need good data
19:13
to make the right patient go to the
19:14
right provider at the right time. So,
19:16
>> so we spent um a bunch of time kind of
19:20
building them out and Providence has a
19:22
pretty big brand. One of the things I
19:24
hear you talk about a lot, Michael, is
19:25
trust. And for me, like
19:27
there's a trust factor there. If the
19:28
health system sees a big enough problem
19:30
to spend $30 million of their own money
19:31
and several years building this out to
19:33
to develop trust of like how do we get a
19:35
patient to the right provider and trust
19:36
for the providers to know the systems
19:38
working to put the right patient on my
19:40
schedule? Like that was a big deal that
19:41
that there was a signal there that
19:43
there's a trust factor there and it's
19:44
being built within health system for
19:46
health system providers. Uh, and then as
19:48
we started to deploy it within the beta
19:51
sites within Providence, we saw that it
19:53
was working. It was it was capturing
19:55
people that were searching for care,
19:56
getting them in quicker, getting them
19:58
into the right care venue. Uh, and we
20:00
just saw more of a need for patients to
20:01
want to have the option to shop for care
20:03
online, find stuff online where I don't
20:05
have to log into a My Chart account, I
20:06
don't have to go through an
20:07
authenticated user. I just need to
20:08
available kind of figure out what's best
20:10
for me.
20:11
>> So, as we started to see that roll out,
20:14
I became more energized about it. We got
20:16
our first venture team to be energized
20:17
about it and then we started to see
20:19
signal from Kaiser and some of these
20:20
large large health systems say hey we
20:22
have these problems where we can't share
20:24
capacity across our health system
20:25
because of these data silos and if you
20:27
guys can help break that down and manage
20:29
supply and demand real time a little
20:31
more efficiently that's going to help us
20:32
a lot. So that was kind of where the
20:34
light bulb your question light bulb
20:35
clicked. That was
20:36
>> Yeah. Was was that was that the aha
20:38
moment when you realized that the
20:40
systems didn't necessarily have a a
20:42
patient access issue? They was really
20:45
more of like a capacity uh orchestration
20:48
issue.
20:50
>> That was part of it for sure. Yeah. And
20:52
just how we showed up on the front end,
20:54
how we orchestrated care in the middle,
20:55
and how we got people to trust it. Like
20:57
those are the three kind of aha moments.
20:59
And we had a lot of great people within
21:01
the Providence leadership team that
21:02
helped figure that out. A lot of great
21:03
people. Uh we were just kind of the the
21:05
the engine to help figure out how do we
21:07
how do we scale this thing beyond
21:08
Providence. But that those were the the
21:10
the main aha moments. And
21:13
>> it's not easy as you know like
21:14
healthcare access isn't easy for a lot
21:16
of different reasons, but we saw enough
21:19
kind of momentum in some of those areas
21:20
where it was making sense and it just
21:22
gave us kind of one more thing to stack
21:24
on there to try to figure out how to do
21:25
the next challenge and the next
21:26
challenge and the next challenge. Well,
21:28
I mean, talk about access. I mean,
21:30
what's what I guess what's a myth about
21:32
access that you wish we would actually
21:34
finally retire
21:38
>> like from a like a scheduling
21:40
standpoint?
21:41
>> Yeah, I mean, there's there's just a lot
21:43
of myths that people think about access
21:45
when it comes to that. I mean, are there
21:46
any that you're just like, "Oh man, I
21:48
wish we could just kind of debunk that
21:49
and let people know that like it's
21:51
actually really not that."
21:54
I don't know if I could come up with
21:55
one. Um,
21:58
I think the thing that we,
22:00
um, we continue to try to improve and
22:05
struggle with, I don't know if it's a
22:07
myth, but it's just the the trust factor
22:09
of access, I think, is a big deal,
22:11
right? Yeah.
22:12
>> Um, as you go up in level acuity from
22:15
same day to primary to specialy care,
22:17
>> you know, those those resources become
22:19
more constrained in the health system.
22:20
They're expensive. They're limited. And
22:22
I can't have Michael taking up an ortho
22:24
appointment if he doesn't need to go to
22:26
an ortho. He just needs to go to PT. So
22:28
>> I think the the thing that we're trying
22:30
to debunk on there is, you know, the
22:33
maybe it's the myth of like the
22:34
providers feel like they always has to
22:36
be a phone call with somebody to ask the
22:37
questions because they're just not going
22:38
to get it right. And you know this as
22:40
well as I do. There's a bunch of tools
22:41
that have evolved from AIT where if you
22:44
feed the system the right data, it can
22:46
make a decision on behalf of a human to
22:48
put the right person on the schedule and
22:50
take some of that lift away. May it may
22:52
never take away 100% but today you know
22:54
it's a good majority of stuff going to a
22:56
call center or someone calling the front
22:57
office at the at the at the at the
22:59
clinic can be handled you know better
23:02
through the the data engines that exist
23:04
out there where there isn't a promotion
23:06
of Dex Gear but it's us or somebody else
23:08
like there's there's that is an issue I
23:10
think we're um there the timing of how
23:14
much AI has evolved in the last 18
23:16
months is probably comes to making
23:19
access more scalable and more
23:20
reproducible. So now we have they've
23:22
been in the call center for a day or for
23:24
40 years. You can have the same data set
23:26
you're working off of to the book an
23:27
appointment because everything's fed
23:28
into a data engine that updates itself
23:31
every day versus every two years for
23:32
some of these decision trees which
23:34
should lead to greater confidence in
23:36
scheduling which should lead to
23:36
hopefully greater confidence in trust
23:38
which should lead to people opening up
23:39
more schedules. So you can truly see
23:41
access I think to the maybe the the the
23:43
long direct roundabout questions people
23:45
say if we don't have capacity is the
23:48
constraint on access. we find there's
23:49
there is capacity
23:50
>> there is
23:51
>> the real constraint is not capacity it's
23:54
it's the uh lack of trust to open up
23:58
that capacity from some of these groups
24:00
which I totally understand it's like
24:02
someone going and say Michael give me
24:03
your schedule and you know like why
24:06
would I give you my schedule I don't
24:07
know who you are what you're going to
24:09
put in there I don't know you don't know
24:10
how to value my time right so we totally
24:13
understand some of that perception out
24:15
there but there's enough
24:16
>> uh data engines that have been built up
24:18
that can make this work a lot more
24:20
efficiently.
24:21
>> Well, talk you mentioned about like,
24:22
hey, look, maybe Dexare isn't the right,
24:24
you know, sort of partner. Can you talk
24:26
about maybe collaboration with other
24:28
innovative companies? You feel like
24:30
you're at a large enough scale where you
24:32
can actually have folks kind of playing
24:33
within your ecosystem. Maybe talk about
24:35
how well you can kind of play within the
24:38
sandbox. I feel like there's this notion
24:39
that sometimes um there might not
24:42
necessarily be more than enough room for
24:44
one in a chariot where like do you view
24:46
that differently? What's your sort of
24:47
take on that?
24:49
>> I I do I think these problems are are
24:52
too complicated to try to go out and
24:54
figure out you're going to do it all on
24:55
your own. So I think just from a
24:57
starting standpoint, we work very
24:59
collaboratively with the data sets that
25:00
exist today. So we're not an EHR or
25:02
vendor. So whatever source of truth is
25:04
for a lot of the patient scheduling and
25:06
provider data, we have to find a way to
25:07
integrate into that. And then there's
25:09
tons of opportunities to build
25:10
experiences on top of that, right? We
25:12
work with virtual care companies to to
25:14
provide a virtual outlet for some of
25:15
this stuff.
25:17
uh scheduling companies to help with
25:18
some of the scheduling infrastructure
25:19
we're doing. We build some of our own.
25:21
So, we've always had a an avenue if it's
25:23
it's going to take a village to raise
25:24
this kid and access in this country is
25:27
still very complicated. There's a reason
25:29
why less than 10% of stuff is scheduled
25:31
online even as we go into 2026 across
25:33
some of these major healthare systems.
25:34
It's a really complicated problem uh
25:36
with a lot of disparit data, a lot of
25:38
infrastructure that goes into that and a
25:40
lot of trust that's been eroded on just
25:43
you know poor experience as from these
25:45
provider groups. So to overcome that it
25:48
does take you know more than just one
25:50
bright idea. It takes people willing to
25:52
talk have conversations and try to
25:54
advance and and do what's best for uh
25:57
the patient at the end of the day. And
25:59
that's been a lot of our mission at the
26:00
VA. It's like whether you choose to use
26:03
us or not, all we're trying to do is
26:06
advance making it easier for veterans to
26:08
schedule an appointment and we're happy
26:09
to share what we built, how we built it.
26:10
We'll share that with you. We'll share
26:12
what other folks have done in this
26:13
space. We're just trying to push kind of
26:15
how we innovate and collaborate
26:17
together. And you know, some people are
26:19
super skeptical of that and some people
26:20
are receptive of that. It just depends
26:22
on you know
26:23
>> what like the ones that are skeptical
26:24
like what's the biggest tension when
26:27
you're talking about modernizing this
26:28
experience?
26:30
uh vendor fatigue, uh the not built here
26:35
syndrome, so therefore can't trust it,
26:38
uh and just too much other crap on my
26:40
plate where this sounds nice, but I'm
26:41
just my dayto-day is so overwhelming
26:44
that I don't have the time to build
26:46
these things because all I'm doing is
26:48
putting out fires and my IT team is cut,
26:51
my infrastructure is cut, and as much as
26:52
I'd like to innovate, just keeping the
26:55
lights on here is taking up 90% of my
26:57
time,
26:58
>> which
27:00
it. Let's just say because you've said,
27:03
you know, look,
27:05
VA has the resources, they just need
27:07
better coordination. What is what does
27:10
better coordination actually look like?
27:14
You know, for a veteran, let's just say,
27:16
that lives two hours away from the
27:19
nearest clinic. Like, give me an example
27:21
of Dex Care in motion. What does that
27:24
look like for a veteran?
27:26
>> Yeah. And when I say they have the
27:28
resources, this is coming from our
27:30
conversations with vision leaders,
27:31
right? And the the isn't a bash on I'll
27:34
be clear like of the the VA caregivers.
27:37
I've worked them for a long time. As
27:38
mentioned, my my third generation
27:40
veteran like they're some of the most
27:42
missiondriven people out there, right?
27:44
They can they can make more money in the
27:45
private sector, but they choose to stay
27:46
delivering care to veterans because they
27:48
believe in the mission and they want to
27:49
serve the men and women that are there,
27:51
but they don't necessarily have the
27:52
tools to do their job most efficiently.
27:54
And the the tragic part of this is I
27:56
think the VA was maybe the second health
27:57
system to adopt an ER behind the Mayo
27:59
Clinic, but it really hasn't evolved
28:01
since then. They have their own instance
28:03
on something called Vista. And there's
28:04
anywhere between 120 and 150 different
28:07
Vista instances depending on who you
28:08
talk to. And those things are just
28:11
they're they're a good uh kind of
28:15
clinical tool to kind of treat kind of
28:17
patient dynamics, but they lack a lot of
28:18
interoperability and ability to easily
28:20
extract data across those instances. So
28:22
you look at we have the largest health
28:23
system in the country serving 9 million
28:24
veterans with 120 plus different
28:27
instances and now converting over to
28:29
Oracle that doesn't talk and doesn't
28:30
communicate and doesn't share best
28:33
practices or availability. Right? So
28:34
when just one VA the hospital we're
28:37
talking to in one vision u they they
28:39
feel they estimates about 10,000
28:40
appointments that go unutilized in their
28:42
hospital every month because of the lack
28:44
of
28:44
>> 10,000 every month.
28:46
>> Every month. So, at the same time, the
28:48
this thing called community care program
28:50
is growing, which me as a veteran, I
28:52
appreciate. It gives me the option to go
28:53
to the most convenient care option for
28:55
me when I meet a certain criteria,
28:57
whether it's in the VA or outside the
28:58
VA. But their community care program has
29:01
gone up about $500 million in cost in
29:03
four years and it's taking four times as
29:06
long to get into a visit. So, it's not
29:08
necessarily making easier and faster for
29:10
me to get in. And then meanwhile, the
29:12
same VA hospital has 10,000 of their own
29:14
internal appointments that Delore
29:16
utilized. So, so what it looks like for
29:18
us in motion is finding a way to break
29:20
down those silos like we've done for
29:22
other systems and truly have a pool of
29:25
availability that has a rules engine
29:27
associated with it. So, Michael's coming
29:28
in where it's a I'm returning from
29:30
deployment and I a PTSD call or this is
29:32
my annual primary care visit. We can
29:35
surface the right option for the veteran
29:37
based on the the routing logic that
29:39
exists for when someone should stay in
29:40
the VA versus when who needs referral to
29:42
go to community care. But there's enough
29:44
there where you can put that in a rules
29:46
engine and surface in one single pane of
29:48
view glass online the ability to find
29:51
and book care whether it's inside or
29:52
outside the VA. Today for me as a
29:55
veteran in in the in Vision 20 it's 18
29:58
clicks once I log in to get to calendar.
30:01
Calendar doesn't show me any
30:02
availability. Just says pick three
30:03
options morning or afternoon and within
30:05
24 to 48 hours an MSA agent will call
30:07
you back and schedule your appointment.
30:09
So I pick three options. doesn't tell me
30:11
if those are good options or bad options
30:12
or if there's any availability and then
30:14
I literally just wait for someone to
30:16
call me and then you know how it is.
30:17
I'll be on the podcast with Michael and
30:19
they'll call you can't pick up and then
30:20
you're playing phone
30:22
>> versus any other healthcare sector or
30:24
any other private sector outside of
30:26
healthcare. I just go online, here's my
30:28
conditions, here's what I'm looking for,
30:29
here's my insurance and here's my
30:31
availability and I'm and I'm done. Um
30:33
but our largest health system in our
30:34
country that's not the experience at
30:36
scale and there's pockets of the VA. VA
30:38
has almost two dozen different
30:39
scheduling solutions. So there's some
30:41
that have built their own homegrown
30:42
solutions or their own local solutions
30:44
that work better, but at scale it's it's
30:47
different across board for for most
30:48
vets.
30:49
>> So it's like you've gone to one VA,
30:51
there's one process, you go to another
30:52
VA in a different part of the country,
30:54
it's an entirely different process. So
30:56
from a standardization standpoint,
30:57
you're saying that it's just
30:59
>> it's not standardized. Doesn't exist.
31:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. The the funny thing is like
31:04
the the routing logic and the rules for
31:06
who should stay in versus who should go
31:07
out in the community are standardized.
31:10
>> The actual process for how Sean wants to
31:12
schedule in Seattle versus how Michael
31:14
wants to schedule in Chicago are totally
31:16
different.
31:17
>> Yeah. And honestly with uh newer
31:20
generations veterans that are that are
31:23
I'll just say they're not necessarily
31:25
techsavvy rather than tech dependent.
31:27
You know they grew up with a smartphone.
31:29
maybe they don't want to talk to a
31:31
human, like they just want to do it
31:33
online. They just want to text someone
31:35
or what have you. Um, so to actually
31:38
knowing that there might be some parts
31:40
of the VA that that have that capability
31:42
and others that don't, it's it's got to
31:44
be it's got to be frustrating as all
31:46
heck.
31:47
>> Yeah. And we've and we've heard this
31:48
from, you know, mentioned some of the
31:50
advocacy work we're doing on the hill
31:51
and with the VA leaders. One of the
31:53
stats we heard from a a VA leader we
31:55
talked recently is 70% of veterans
31:57
prefer virtual care and online options.
32:00
Right. So to your point it's the younger
32:02
community or just the ease of access
32:03
because they're in rural spaces. Giving
32:05
them that option is important to engage
32:07
in a virtual visit, engage in virtual
32:09
care, schedule stuff virtually versus
32:11
having to always call. And then there's
32:13
also the portion of, you know, the big
32:14
other big reason as I get older and
32:16
become more nostalgic. Like when I first
32:19
got out of the Navy, it's a tough
32:21
transition to go from, you know, being
32:23
being in the military, high operation
32:25
tempo, deploying, you're going to war,
32:27
all this stuff like what what that is
32:29
transferable to like anything in this in
32:31
the privacy sector. And you go through
32:33
the struggle of trying to figure that
32:34
out. And then I moved to Seattle, I
32:35
didn't know anybody up here. I'll just
32:37
go to the VA and sit in the damn lobby
32:39
and just, you know, shoot the you know
32:41
what with guys that had the hats on in
32:42
the Vietnam era, World War II. And
32:44
people tell stories. It's like an
32:45
institutional fabric. So they'll always
32:46
be a part of the community there. I
32:48
think it's such a precious institution
32:49
to protect is you know it's a very
32:51
unique um very unique care given care
32:55
ecosystem where that subject matter
32:58
expertise of being a veteran having that
33:00
community is super important to the
33:01
recovery whether it's physical or mental
33:03
as they go on. So, I think that that
33:05
physical presence is still super
33:07
important and you have to engage the the
33:10
younger demographic or people with
33:12
different preferences that need things
33:13
more digitally, do things virtually just
33:14
because they can get in easier because,
33:16
you know, I I gave up on trying to
33:18
continue to schedule there because it's
33:20
so hard. There's just easier options for
33:21
me to find in in the private sector.
33:25
>> That's really like you have choice.
33:28
Others don't have choice and they end up
33:30
having to like deal with it. And then
33:32
what happens is if it's gets too hard,
33:35
>> they just they just stop trying.
33:37
>> That's why that number hasn't changed in
33:39
20 years, right? And that's the other
33:40
big reason why it's so important to me
33:41
now is I I I recognize the privilege I
33:44
have of being in the healthcare space
33:45
and working with great people and
33:47
meeting great people like you over time.
33:48
Like I know how to advocate for myself
33:50
to get to where I need to go. Majority
33:52
of the US population, they don't know.
33:54
Like back to my dad, like my dad would
33:57
just sit there crying like I don't know
33:59
what to do. Like no one's calling me
34:00
back, right? And if we didn't have to
34:02
push and advocate for him and just know
34:03
that like it shouldn't be that hard for
34:05
people, right? These are one of like
34:07
many horror stories.
34:08
>> One of many. One of many. One of many.
34:12
>> So, how do how do folks kind of engage
34:14
with Dexare? Maybe kind of tell people a
34:17
little bit more about where they can
34:18
find more about the work that you guys
34:19
are doing. Um, yeah, just spend a little
34:22
bit of time doing that. Just want to
34:23
make sure we do that before, you know,
34:25
before we forget.
34:27
>> Yeah. uh folks can engage at our
34:29
website, dexteralth.com, our LinkedIn
34:31
page or Instagram page or social page.
34:33
Any any anyone that wants to react and
34:35
have a conversation, we're happy to have
34:36
a conversation. And then we're we're
34:38
always at some of the major trade shows
34:40
as well. We're talking before the
34:41
recording turned on about Vive and some
34:43
of these other meetings. We have a
34:44
presence at all those where people can
34:46
find us. Um and um happy to chat about
34:49
any of this stuff as as time goes on. Uh
34:52
I think you're pointing a really
34:53
important light at a really important
34:54
issue is how do we just you know help
34:56
continue to advance giving people access
34:59
to things that are going to make their
35:01
lives healthier make their lives easier
35:02
and whatever small part Dexare plays in
35:05
that. Our team is very missiondriven to
35:07
try to do that for communities like the
35:09
VA or the veteran community plus whoever
35:11
else needs access to care regardless of
35:14
your you know prior record of service or
35:16
not.
35:18
in in addition to the sort of the
35:19
technological advancement component, is
35:21
there is there a service component that
35:23
you guys care, you know, can deliver if
35:25
to maybe fill some of those needs if if
35:27
need be?
35:28
>> There always is. Yes, it's a that's a
35:30
big piece of it is just the, you know,
35:33
getting the the plumbing and the
35:34
connection set up to be able to enable
35:36
the experience is a big part of this.
35:37
>> The ongoing service and support is a big
35:39
part of this which we provide those
35:40
services. And then I think the you know
35:42
the the other unique thing I think about
35:44
this company versus the other two I've
35:46
I've been fortunate to be a part of is
35:48
because we came out of a health care
35:50
system and had you know the of
35:52
healthcare executives plus providers all
35:54
day long telling us hey digital nerds
35:56
don't do this no one will ever do that.
35:58
We have a we have a different point of
35:59
view on like how you get the physician
36:01
community to adopt and embrace some of
36:02
this stuff and and a
36:04
>> first seat point of view of like how
36:06
hard their lives are when you screw up
36:08
their schedules. So I think they in
36:09
addition to the the services report we
36:11
put around it, we we bring a a more
36:13
innate understanding given our origin
36:15
story spending three years in a
36:16
healthcare system building this out of
36:18
how do you need to talk to folks and
36:19
understand what's Michael really saying
36:21
to build the right solution
36:23
>> versus you know a lot of kind of tech
36:25
innovation for tech innovation but no
36:27
context of like how crazy my day is in
36:30
clinic and if you screw that up I'm
36:31
gonna you know off with your head kind
36:33
of thing. So, uh, it sounds like that's
36:36
part of your core story when you're
36:39
reaching out and you're speaking to new
36:40
people. You let them know that, hey,
36:42
we're we actually came. We're one of
36:44
you. We're we're we're a peer. And and
36:48
do you feel like that actually is what
36:49
kind of diffuses and brings some of the
36:52
people's uh defenses down as a result of
36:54
that? Just knowing that you came out of
36:56
a health system, you understand the the
36:58
nomenclature, you understand the chaos
37:01
that they're dealing with.
37:03
>> I think so. especially early on. I think
37:05
that's changed. You probably seen this
37:06
change just as much as I like going back
37:09
started this literally my co-founder and
37:11
I uh Derek started this the we came into
37:14
Providence like two weeks before the
37:15
pandemic hit in 2020 and that point in
37:19
time uh a lot of health care systems had
37:21
denovation digital evation groups
37:23
investment groups and it was kind of the
37:25
the early adoption of kind of influx of
37:28
>> uh digital health. You look at the last
37:30
five years I think that model has
37:32
changed quite a bit in healthcare. A lot
37:33
of those digital innovation help health
37:34
health shops and health systems have
37:35
shut down. They're kind of sticking to
37:37
their core competency. They're not they
37:38
realize how hard it is to innovate and
37:40
spin out and grow as a company. So, uh
37:43
that network effect has definitely
37:45
changed over the last five years where
37:47
early on
37:48
>> everyone had a digital team. It seemed
37:50
like everyone had a venture team.
37:51
Everyone was kind of collaborating and
37:52
sharing ideas. We would go there, they
37:53
would come here and this was a really
37:55
cool
37:56
>> time. Uh that's changed a lot. you know,
37:59
we don't see that as much in five years,
38:01
but uh to your original question, I
38:03
still think it helps. It doesn't change
38:05
the DNA of who we are and where we came
38:06
from and what we
38:08
>> But the environment is also very
38:09
different today than it was in 2019,
38:11
2020.
38:13
>> Yeah. All right, let's do uh let's do
38:14
some rapid fire, some fun, a fun way to
38:16
end this. Um maybe what's like a
38:19
leadership trait or habit that you
38:22
picked up in the Navy that you still use
38:24
every day?
38:27
uh early to early to rise, early to
38:29
grind. So I still get up at, you know, 0
38:31
to dark 30. Still make sure I get my
38:33
workout in every morning and get a head
38:35
start, you know, I tend to get in two
38:37
hours of work before most people turn on
38:39
the laptop. So that that compensates for
38:42
I may not be as smart as everybody else,
38:44
but I'm going to grind harder harder
38:45
than anybody else. So whether it's
38:46
military, New Jersey, New York, and
38:48
yeah, that that's
38:50
all these years and it will
38:53
>> What about um maybe best piece of advice
38:58
that you've ever received and who gave
39:00
it to you?
39:03
>> O military or just in general?
39:07
>> In general.
39:08
>> Um
39:10
well, I I kind of feel like if I don't
39:12
quote my dad, I'll hear about it.
39:14
Um
39:16
uh so my dad and I used to go fishing
39:19
when I was a kid. Like every Saturday
39:21
we'd go down the Jersey Shore and just
39:23
go fishing. And he would always get
39:24
upset because he'd invite one of his cop
39:26
buddies and I'd always be late. And he's
39:27
just early on started pontificating on
39:30
the three the three lessons in life you
39:32
need to remember and was uh if you tell
39:34
someone you're going to do something,
39:35
you do it no matter what. Your only
39:37
excuse is you're dead. Uh if you're not
39:39
on time, you're wasting other people's
39:42
time, which is our most precious
39:43
resource. and don't ever be
39:44
disrespectful. You be on time to
39:46
everything regardless of whether you're
39:47
senior or junior. You show up, you show
39:49
up on time and you be present. And his
39:52
third one was never pissing to the wind,
39:53
which was was appropriate when you're on
39:55
a boat and there's wind blowing and you
39:58
So, uh I don't know about the third how
39:59
useful the third one is, but the first
40:01
two I've kept with me of
40:03
>> I'd say they're they're all useful. then
40:06
you do it and
40:09
regardless of day like I still get
40:10
anxiety if I'm like a minute late to
40:12
something like I just feel it's you know
40:13
we don't know how much time we have on
40:14
this earth it's the one thing that's
40:16
equivalent and and none of us can buy
40:18
more of it no matter how rich or poor
40:20
you are and if you're disrespectful of
40:22
someone's time you're just being
40:23
disrespectful of them and I just I just
40:25
have a very low tolerance level for that
40:28
>> what about maybe um favorite place
40:31
you've ever been stationed or deployed
40:35
Uh favorite place stationed was a place
40:38
called Diego Garcia. It was a tiny atoll
40:41
in the middle of nowhere about 950 mi
40:44
south of India. Uh it was a/4 mile wide
40:46
and 33 mi long tip to tip and I spent a
40:50
year there u which was at as at a 20 at
40:54
a 22-y old kid which was really
40:55
interesting. we're doing all the it was
40:58
kind of the last stop between uh there
41:01
in the Middle East for all the kind of
41:02
the the stuff that was going on in the
41:04
Middle East which is really cool. Uh and
41:06
then
41:08
uh favorite place uh it was a crazy time
41:11
but when 911 happened after I got off
41:13
the carrier I was fortunate enough to
41:15
work with a group called Special Boat
41:16
Team 12 and they were doing all the
41:18
insert extract missions for the SEAL
41:20
teams that were going all over Southeast
41:21
Asia trying to hunt down the bad guys
41:23
and we got to go to you know
41:26
Philippines, Malaysia, Brunai, Thailand,
41:29
Singapore and just kind of work with
41:30
those teams on some counterterrorism
41:33
efforts and and uh through that process
41:36
Um, all those countries are really,
41:38
really beautiful with some spots in the
41:40
Philippines that were really remarkable
41:42
from a people, culture, and just a
41:44
beauty perspective. And was very
41:45
fortunate to be able to see some of the
41:47
world, as the old saying goes, join the
41:49
Navy, see the world. At least for me,
41:50
that was true. I saw a lot of a lot of
41:52
cool places.
41:53
>> Amazing. All right. And uh, if Dex Care
41:56
had a like a theme song, what would it
41:59
be?
42:01
>> Oh, geez. depending on what day you ask
42:05
me, but I I'll probably throw the first
42:07
thing that came to mind, rapid fire, was
42:09
the Rocky theme song. So,
42:11
>> yeah, kind of going at it every day and
42:15
underdog story trying to trying to make
42:17
it in the world and, you know, take down
42:19
some big issues.
42:22
>> All right. So my last question is just
42:24
you know I guess when you think about
42:25
the future of access um the technology
42:30
um as well as the people and how it's
42:34
supposed to serve what I guess what
42:37
really gives you the most hope right now
42:43
um
42:47
how
42:50
sophisticated
42:52
and strong some of the technology sets
42:54
are becoming with with some of the
42:55
advancements in AI. Like I feel like AI
42:57
is thrown out a lot as case
42:59
>> this buzz word and people don't really
43:01
know what it is but you know we're in
43:03
Seattle so we're very fortunate enough
43:04
to work with a lot of smart AI folks and
43:08
>> the stuff that they're able to build and
43:09
how quickly they can iterate and grow on
43:11
some of this stuff is really
43:13
mindboggling. Like our build cycles over
43:14
the last six months have been faster
43:16
than anything we've done in the last
43:18
five years. um and learning how to use
43:21
tools, where to use those tools. Um it's
43:23
it's been really impressive from a speed
43:25
of innovation standpoint. So I think
43:26
that's what gives me the most hope and
43:29
then
43:30
>> the concern on that is just you know how
43:32
quickly we can get the culture of care
43:34
to adopt that and then the overall
43:36
collective responsibility for health
43:38
systems and vendors and all that to make
43:40
sure that we do it responsibly and we
43:42
protect the right things that need to be
43:43
protected. protect the data needs to be
43:45
protected and we point it at doing some
43:47
really cool interesting and good
43:48
problems. I think that's the
43:50
>> responsibility beholden to all of us.
43:52
But what gives you the most hope is
43:54
there's a lot of complexity here. I
43:56
think I heard a stat the other day like
43:57
healthcare data doubles every 46 days
44:00
>> and if that data is fragmented
44:02
>> that's crazy
44:02
>> can't do the right things right. So
44:04
unless we start embracing some of these
44:06
tools and how much it AI has advanced in
44:08
the last call it 12 months it's it's
44:11
showing we can keep up with some of the
44:12
complexity of how quickly this data is
44:14
growing and then we just got to make
44:16
sure we do it responsibly which I know
44:18
there's a lot skeptical about that but
44:20
>> outside of that I don't see how we
44:22
advance some of these issues like you
44:23
look at the we started the conversation
44:25
in the VA it's the largest health care
44:28
system in the country um and I can't
44:30
schedule an appointment online there
44:32
today right And and the the one thing
44:35
you hear is from them is it's the most
44:37
complicated backend ecosystem ever.
44:40
Well, if it's that complicated, unless
44:41
we start deploying some of these tech
44:43
tools to help us scale, how are we ever
44:45
going to fix the complication? So,
44:47
that's what I'm probably most excited
44:49
about.
44:50
>> Always be that clash of culture and and
44:52
and tech, but I think it's
44:55
>> unfair.
44:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the enemy uh of
44:59
complexity is simplicity and in this
45:01
case, you know, it's like sometimes you
45:03
got to if it's overbuilt in the wrong
45:05
direction, it's like what do you do?
45:06
It's you simplify. Anyway, Sean, it's um
45:10
thank you for uh just showing up the way
45:14
that you did today. Um rigorously
45:17
honest, very clear. The stories were
45:22
were very grounded. Uh, I'm just
45:24
wondering how your team reacted to the
45:26
story that you shared earlier, you know,
45:28
about 911 and um, yeah, it matters. It
45:32
showcases that you're human, that you
45:33
care. And for, you know, someone who's
45:36
listening right now, I mean, I hope you
45:38
caught that. I hope you caught that. Um,
45:41
access, it's not a it's not just a
45:44
technology conversation. It's a it's a
45:47
people conversation. It's a reminder
45:49
that you know systems uh you know we
45:54
build them to honor someone's life. Um
45:58
and sometimes it can make it harder for
46:01
someone and other times ideally in a
46:03
perfect world it would make it simpler
46:05
for them. And we talk a lot about today
46:07
about veterans today and
46:10
man these are real people real families
46:13
um real moments with either the system
46:15
works or it doesn't.
46:17
So just leaders like you that are
46:19
actually trying to make a difference,
46:20
it's important to amplify your story,
46:23
the voice. So um if you're listening to
46:26
this, if this conversation moved you,
46:29
challenged you, made you think
46:31
differently, or maybe there's something
46:32
you can add, share the episode. And if
46:36
there there's a topic maybe that you
46:38
want us to explore or a leader that you
46:39
want us to speak to, then you know, drop
46:42
a note, share a comment. Um I do read
46:45
them. This is a platform that is about
46:48
community. It's an interactive
46:49
community. It's not just content. So,
46:51
thank you for listening. Keep building
46:53
with purpose and uh we'll see you next
46:55
time on the Advancing Healthcare
46:57
Innovation Show. Thank you, Michael.