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Beauty gets jilted, murders ex's new girlfriend · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Four years and a hundred
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Speaker 1: and sixty plus texts a day later, are we any
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Speaker 1: closer to knowing the truth about what happened to a
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Speaker 1: beautiful young woman? Four years and one hundred and sixty
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Speaker 1: texts plus a day later, do we ever get to
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Speaker 1: the truth? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace with Me and
0:57
Speaker 1: All Star Panel? But let's just start at the beginning
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Speaker 1: of this nightmare story. Take a listen to our friends
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Speaker 1: at crime online dot Com. Dave Krupa and his longtime
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Speaker 1: girlfriend Amy Flora have two children together. The couple separates
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Speaker 1: after twelve years. Flora decides to return to her hometown
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Speaker 1: of Council Bluffs, Iowa. Krupa also moves from their home
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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin so he can be near his children. He
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Speaker 1: takes a job managing an auto repair shop. This newly
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Speaker 1: single dad is on his own for the first time
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Speaker 1: in a while. He decides it's time to jump back
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Speaker 1: into the dating pool. In fact, Grupa signs up for
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Speaker 1: a couple of dating sites. You have to appreciate his plight.
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Speaker 1: He's been a faithful dad and husband for twelve years,
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Speaker 1: and now suddenly he's dump back out there in the
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Speaker 1: dating pool. How could things go so wrong again? I
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Speaker 1: Mancy Grace, thanks for being with us here at Crime
1:57
Speaker 1: Stories with me. Wendy Patrick for your prosecutor, author of
2:01
Speaker 1: Red Flags. Wendy, what's the name of your program? It's
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Speaker 1: Today with Doctor Wendy on KCBQ Radio. Thanks Nancy, Today
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Speaker 1: with Doctor Wendy on k what acbq k c b Q,
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Speaker 1: And she's at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Doctor Bethany
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Speaker 1: Marshall's psychoanalyst to the Stars, joining us out of Beverly Hills,
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Speaker 1: of course, out of Beverly Hills, star of a new
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Speaker 1: Netflix series, Blinging Empire, and you can find her at
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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Derek Ellington, certified computer forensic
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Speaker 1: Examiner That's not Easy at Ellington dot net. Professor Forensics,
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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on
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Speaker 1: Amazon and star of a brand new series on the
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Speaker 1: True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaison's Joseph Scott Morgan. But first
2:53
Speaker 1: to Crime Online dot com investigative reporter Levi Page So
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Speaker 1: Dave Krupa and longtime love Amy Flora stay together twelve years,
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Speaker 1: two children together and where is it they moved to.
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Speaker 1: So he's thirty five years old, Nancy, and he moves
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Speaker 1: to Omaha, Nebraska, and he has a job working as
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Speaker 1: a manager of an as an auto repair shop at
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Speaker 1: an auto repair shop. Now you say Omaha, I thought
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Speaker 1: it was in a smaller area, Council Bluffs, Iowa. Did
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Speaker 1: I get that backwards? Well, his wife and children are
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Speaker 1: living there. It's about an hour from where he got gotcha, gotcha?
3:37
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall. This is your thingum, Bethany
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Speaker 1: joining us from Beverly Hills, renowned psycho analyst. It's really hard.
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Speaker 1: I think I would imagine after you've been in a
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Speaker 1: long term relationship, you've had twins. When you're in that relationship,
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Speaker 1: you don't think, Wow, I better stay in showy if
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Speaker 1: I'm better learn a lot of funny stories to tell
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Speaker 1: when this whole thing blows up and I have to
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Speaker 1: get back on the dating market. You don't anticipate that's
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Speaker 1: going to happen, No, Nancy. Your whole life has been
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Speaker 1: wrapped up with your spouse and your children, little league games,
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Speaker 1: art classes, all of that. You know, you don't exactly
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Speaker 1: feel sexy. Although Freud wrote extensively about this. He said
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Speaker 1: that when you're on a marriage, all your libido goes
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Speaker 1: into the other person and to your children, and it
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Speaker 1: doesn't go into the self, but that when a person
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Speaker 1: breaks up, all that libido goes back into the self.
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Speaker 1: So they start working out, they get a fancy car,
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Speaker 1: they start to get mice, furniture for their apartment. And
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Speaker 1: this is what you see with singles. Newly single people
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Speaker 1: prepare themselves to date. But this poor guy, it sounds
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Speaker 1: like he either had no money to begin with, or
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Speaker 1: maybe he was quite generous left everything with his wife.
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Speaker 1: He was not exactly positioned to go out into the
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Speaker 1: dating world. He had a rough beginning of it. Aside
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Speaker 1: from the obvious emotional obstacles in starting over romantically. Derek Ellington,
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Speaker 1: certified computer forensic examiner at Ellington dot net. You also
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Speaker 1: have to be practical about who you're meeting. How should
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Speaker 1: you check these people out online? And just so you know,
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Speaker 1: I did an entire segment of my new book, Don't
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Speaker 1: Be a Victim on online dating. You know I could
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Speaker 1: write a whole book on it, but just give us
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Speaker 1: some ideas. Derek, well amanc As you and I have
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Speaker 1: talked before. There was a cartoon I saw once. It
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Speaker 1: had two little dogs sitting in front of a computer,
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Speaker 1: and one dog says to the other, the great thing
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Speaker 1: about the internet is nobody knows you're a dog and
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Speaker 1: what you're what you're able to do is to be
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Speaker 1: anybody you want to be. You can present you know,
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Speaker 1: your your image that you want everybody else to see.
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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think people who are who are online dating,
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Speaker 1: they're they're looking for love, They're they're very hopeful, so
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Speaker 1: they tend to paint things in a very hopeful way.
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Speaker 1: So it's tough, you know, we have to figure out
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Speaker 1: ways to uh to be critical, to not believe everything
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Speaker 1: we see and we read. But um, but it's tough.
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Speaker 1: We work a lot of cases where people get sucked
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Speaker 1: in on the dating sites and next thing you know,
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Speaker 1: they're sending huge amounts of money to people because they
6:34
Speaker 1: get caught up in these hard luck stories that are
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Speaker 1: that are just not true. Um, a lot of grifters,
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Speaker 1: a lot of scammers on the internet. Unfortunately, you know what,
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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, But I don't knock it because my nephew,
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Speaker 1: uh met a woman online, He dated several women he
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Speaker 1: met online ended up marrying one of them. They've now
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Speaker 1: been married, I guess four or five years, have a
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Speaker 1: baby boy, just bought a house. They seem so happy.
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Speaker 1: So you know, knock on wood, it does work. You
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Speaker 1: just gotta be so wary. But in this case, David
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Speaker 1: Krupa does put his toe in the water. Take a
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Speaker 1: listen to our friends. At twenty twenty, the first person
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Speaker 1: Dave met on an online dating site was a woman
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Speaker 1: by the name of Liz Gallier. Her full name is
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Speaker 1: Shanna Elizabeth Gallier, but she went by her middle name, Liz.
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Speaker 1: Liz was a single mother with two children, and her
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Speaker 1: kids were about the same age as Dave's kids. She
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Speaker 1: had a business, Liz's Housekeeping. Liz loved taking selfies and
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Speaker 1: sending them to her friends. I thought Liz was very pretty.
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Speaker 1: I was attracted to her right away, so then we
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Speaker 1: set up a date. Dave's first dates with Liz where
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Speaker 1: at a coffee shop and they just sat and chatted
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Speaker 1: sex scene. She was bright and shiny, and she was
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Speaker 1: very engaging. They had a lot of fun together. They
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Speaker 1: got along really well, and it was just a very
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Speaker 1: casual thing. And just right here, I've just got to say,
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Speaker 1: while he's having a good experience with his first date
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Speaker 1: with this woman. There's so many things. If you're on
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Speaker 1: the dating scene and your internet dating online dating number one,
8:25
Speaker 1: meet somewhere in public for your first date. Don't let
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Speaker 1: them come to your office or where you live to
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Speaker 1: pick you up. Meet them somewhere in public well, don't
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Speaker 1: have them walk you to your car or walk you home.
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Speaker 1: Listen to me on your profile. Don't be leaning up
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Speaker 1: against your car. They cannot be identified much unless your tag.
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Speaker 1: Don't be in front of your office where you can
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Speaker 1: be traced to your office. Don't be in front of
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Speaker 1: your home. Don't be anywhere that you can be identified
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Speaker 1: and found. Go by your first name only. Don't give
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Speaker 1: too much a way about yourself. Some people even go
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Speaker 1: to the extent of using a phone app for dating
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Speaker 1: that rings with a different phone number than your actual
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Speaker 1: regular number, and it's an app you put on your
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Speaker 1: cell phone so the people that you are encountering online
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Speaker 1: don't have a way to trace to your real phone,
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Speaker 1: because then once they have your cell number, they can
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Speaker 1: then find out your background, your full name, everything about you. Yes,
9:34
Speaker 1: it's real crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, will we
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Speaker 1: ever know the truth about what happened in this case.
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Speaker 1: Right now, we've got David krup died of two, out
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Speaker 1: on the dating market, just putting his toe into the
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Speaker 1: dating pool. Take a listen to our friend Keith Morrison.
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Speaker 1: I'm working, I'm behind the counter, I'm doing ten things.
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Speaker 1: It happened in an auto repair shop to a mechanic
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Speaker 1: named Dave Krooper. She walks in, I see her, We
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Speaker 1: meet eyes, and just for a moment, I kind of
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Speaker 1: stopped and I go, well, hello, he was working. She
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Speaker 1: wanted her SUV repaired, And you know, in the back
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Speaker 1: of my mind, I'm thinking a wile she's gorgeous, but
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna work. I'm representing a company I worked for her.
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Speaker 1: That's aft the table. It's not a possibility. But did
10:40
Speaker 1: you detect a little sort of signal coming back your way?
10:43
Speaker 1: I thought I did. But then a few weeks later
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Speaker 1: it seemed like fate. Dave went on a dating website
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Speaker 1: and there she was, her profile, her picture, her name Carrie.
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Speaker 1: He started taping and just said, hey, I know you,
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Speaker 1: ha ha, and she replied same thing. So let me
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Speaker 1: understand the timeline LEAVI page. David Krupa has put his
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Speaker 1: toe in the dating pool. He had a date with
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Speaker 1: a young woman named Liz Gawler. Then we have this woman,
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Speaker 1: explained to me the timeline there, Carrie Farverer. Yeah, he
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Speaker 1: met her six months after he moved to Omaha in
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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, and they met at the auto repair shop
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Speaker 1: that he was managing. But now you're talking about Carrie Farver.
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Speaker 1: He met her and the auto repair Oh okay, Well
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Speaker 1: what about Liz Gawllyer. Had they already had their date? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: they had already been on a few dates, and he
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Speaker 1: let her know that he was not wanting to be
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Speaker 1: exclusive or serious with anyone. He just got out of
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Speaker 1: a whoa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
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Speaker 1: wait wait. Okay, let me understand something, doctor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: explain that to me. Because see if I was sitting
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Speaker 1: a line in my apartment on a lawn chair, and
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Speaker 1: I had nothing else and I had just busted up
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Speaker 1: with my longtime love, my two children were living an
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Speaker 1: hour away, and I managed to snag a job I'm
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Speaker 1: working all the time, I would I would have a
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Speaker 1: hard time telling somebody, hey, we're not exclusive, because I'm
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Speaker 1: totally the best thing you're find what he's not playing
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Speaker 1: a Zander right. No, there's a number of things you
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Speaker 1: never say on a first date. You do not say
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Speaker 1: I don't want to be exclusive. You don't say I
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Speaker 1: have a terminal illness. You don't say my family if
12:45
Speaker 1: they're all alcoholics. You don't say I just filed for bankruptcy.
12:50
Speaker 1: You do not spill the contents of your mind. You
12:53
Speaker 1: hold a few cards close to the back. You mean
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Speaker 1: the bad cards skate, Yeah, I advertising, though. You hide
13:04
Speaker 1: the relatives in the closet and hope they all don't
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Speaker 1: jump out and question your new partner. You know. Helen Fisher,
13:11
Speaker 1: who's a cultural anthropologist, says she does brain scans, and
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Speaker 1: she says that when you first meet somebody, the experience
13:19
Speaker 1: of falling in love, the activity in the brain, it
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Speaker 1: mimics doing cocaine. There's such a dopamine surge that you
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Speaker 1: cannot know the reality of who you're dating for at
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Speaker 1: least six months. It takes six months of dating for that.
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Speaker 1: I got a correct real Miss Bethany Marshall, doctor Bethany,
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Speaker 1: because I really did not know what I had a
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Speaker 1: hold of until David and A were married and we
13:48
Speaker 1: were raising the twins. I thought he was great, but
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Speaker 1: I didn't know how great he was until we got married.
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Speaker 1: And let me just say, you know what hit the
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Speaker 1: fan with me being in, I see you, the twins
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Speaker 1: being in, I see you, everything going crazy for the
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Speaker 1: longest time. You know, I've been in a wheelchair with
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Speaker 1: the twins. You remember my pregnancy, and David was there
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Speaker 1: every step of the way and still is so I
14:20
Speaker 1: you know sometimes but it takes six months. What now, Well,
14:26
Speaker 1: this supports what she's saying. She says that months seven
14:30
Speaker 1: or eight you begin to know the reality of who
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Speaker 1: that other person is, and then all that heightened sexuality
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Speaker 1: and passion at the beginning gives way to something better,
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Speaker 1: which is meaning devotion and love for each other. You know,
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Speaker 1: Nancy and doctor Bethany, one of the things that you
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Speaker 1: both are saying is that early on in a dating relationship,
14:51
Speaker 1: you're not focused on credibility but chemistry, and unfortunately, due
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Speaker 1: to this endorphin that doctor Bethany is talking about, that
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Speaker 1: sometimes overrides the red flags I talked about in my
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Speaker 1: book and Nancy that you talk about in your book
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Speaker 1: on Your Victim, on the chapter on online dating, because
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Speaker 1: we're not paying attention to the external cues that maybe
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Speaker 1: we should have been because we might have made better decisions.
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Speaker 1: You made a great choice, Nancy, but not everybody is
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Speaker 1: lucky enough to meet, especially on online dating sites. Somebody
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Speaker 1: that's going to turn out to be that credible, well,
15:24
Speaker 1: I can't take any credit. I think the Lord is
15:26
Speaker 1: really looking out for me. It was a fluke that
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Speaker 1: I ended up with David and the best, you know,
15:31
Speaker 1: one of the best things that ever happened to me.
15:32
Speaker 1: But I cannot take the credit. You know, guys, we're
15:35
Speaker 1: talking about this young man, David Krupa, just out of
15:39
Speaker 1: a twelve year relationship. He has a couple of online
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Speaker 1: dates with one woman, her name Liz Gawyer. Then he
15:47
Speaker 1: meets Carrie Farver. Now, thankfully, he and Liz had made
15:51
Speaker 1: it clear to each other that they did not want
15:53
Speaker 1: to be exclusive. What led him to say that that
16:00
Speaker 1: early on in the relationship take a listen to our
16:03
Speaker 1: friends at dateline. He invited carry back to his place,
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Speaker 1: and she agreed, and that's when something else happened. Just
16:14
Speaker 1: as they walked into the apartment, the doorbell rang. It
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Speaker 1: was Dave's ex girlfriend, Liz, here to pick up some
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Speaker 1: things she'd left behind in his apartment. Awkward, but Carrie
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Speaker 1: just laughed bowed out. She said, I get it, it's
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Speaker 1: not a big deal. I'm gonna go home. You're calling
16:34
Speaker 1: me when you're done dealing with this mouse. So Dave
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Speaker 1: escorted Carrie to the door, and her and Liz passed
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Speaker 1: each other. At that moment, there were no words spoken.
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Speaker 1: So let me understand, LEVI page, explain to me. How
16:48
Speaker 1: is it that although they didn't want to be exclusive,
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Speaker 1: Liz Gallier already had stuff her stuff at his apartment. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: she had some things at the apartment, and she popped
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Speaker 1: over on announced. And Barber had been staying at his
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Speaker 1: apartment a lot because she lived an hour away in Iowa.
17:07
Speaker 1: But her office where she was working as a computer programmer,
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Speaker 1: was near her near his apartment, so she was over
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Speaker 1: there a lot. So the two women meet. Now, I
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Speaker 1: thought they weren't exclusive for Pete's sake, But you know
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Speaker 1: what I've found, doctor Bethany Marshall. Have you found that
17:26
Speaker 1: when people break up, they have an excuse why they
17:30
Speaker 1: have to go back and get what my Bobby pen
17:33
Speaker 1: I left on your kitchen counter last week? You know,
17:35
Speaker 1: why do you have to go back and get something
17:38
Speaker 1: that obviously you're not missing anyway, Nancy. I always say,
17:42
Speaker 1: leave it behind, leave it alone. Okay, so you left
17:45
Speaker 1: your your cutest top at your boyfriend's house and you
17:48
Speaker 1: broke up. Leave it there. But you know, people aggonize women,
17:53
Speaker 1: especially Oh, I have my hair brushed, my makeup. You know,
17:57
Speaker 1: should I just ask her to put it in his hair?
17:59
Speaker 1: Egg Like, go just back, calling energy of the CVS
18:03
Speaker 1: and get some new cover girl, get some more mascara.
18:08
Speaker 1: You're fine. I think it's a reason, an excuse to
18:12
Speaker 1: go back to see the person that you've broken up with.
18:17
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Dave Krupa and Carrie Farvar's
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Speaker 1: relationship is short lived. In November, she broke up with
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Speaker 1: her new boyfriend through a text message from her phone.
18:26
Speaker 1: Just after that, another message was sent to her boss,
18:29
Speaker 1: quitting her job, and then more she stopped going home
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Speaker 1: to see her family, even her teenage son who was
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Speaker 1: in high school. Then text messages and social media updates begin.
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Speaker 1: Farther tells her family she needs a break, she's moving
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Speaker 1: to Kansas to take a new job, and she doesn't
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Speaker 1: want to see any of them indefinitely. Crime stories with
19:01
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a very odd scenario.
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Speaker 1: This guy knew on the dating scene after a twelve
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Speaker 1: ear relationship, has a few online dates with a woman
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Speaker 1: named Liz Gayer. Then he meets Carrie Farther and he
19:23
Speaker 1: falls for her, but suddenly she up and leaves, texting
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Speaker 1: him bye bye. An online break up. But she doesn't
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Speaker 1: just break up with him, she breaks up with her family,
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Speaker 1: her job, and takes off to Kansas to start all
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Speaker 1: over again. You know, I could buy all that, Joseph
19:44
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, you're the professor of forensics, except how do
19:47
Speaker 1: you break up with your son? I mean, you know what,
19:53
Speaker 1: I go to hell and back to get my twins,
19:56
Speaker 1: to get to my twins. I find that hard part,
19:59
Speaker 1: very hard to believe. Yeah. Yeah, Kim and I were
20:02
Speaker 1: sitting around the other night just reflecting over this past
20:04
Speaker 1: year and how hard it's been. You know, he went
20:05
Speaker 1: off to basic training and all these sorts of things.
20:08
Speaker 1: He was out of our life for that period of
20:09
Speaker 1: time COVID, and you know, it really gives you pause.
20:13
Speaker 1: You know, the small being that you've raised, You know,
20:17
Speaker 1: you were there. I was there to clip the chord.
20:19
Speaker 1: You know when he was born. How do you just
20:20
Speaker 1: walk away from that and not just that sight and scene.
20:24
Speaker 1: I don't want to see any of you people, and
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Speaker 1: that's inclusive. That's all inclusive. We're talking about mom, dad,
20:30
Speaker 1: this precious son that she has. I don't want to
20:33
Speaker 1: see any of you guys. And not only that, I'm
20:35
Speaker 1: going I'm going to wait to another state. And for
20:38
Speaker 1: me as an investigator, that's a red flag. But the
20:42
Speaker 1: problem with this Nancy, and we've run into this time
20:45
Speaker 1: and time again with missing persons cases. For instance, if
20:50
Speaker 1: someone goes to the cops and says, hey, I want
20:54
Speaker 1: to report my daughter missing, if they're of age at
20:57
Speaker 1: that point in time, you know, the cops will look
20:58
Speaker 1: at you and say, look, you got this electronic trail
21:02
Speaker 1: that's left behind. There's an animal thing to do with you,
21:05
Speaker 1: you know, say love. And there's also the issue of
21:09
Speaker 1: routine evidence. And I really don't like the name of that,
21:13
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, but what it means it's not everyday evidence
21:17
Speaker 1: that you see all the time. It's evidence of a
21:19
Speaker 1: routine There was no indication that this woman, Carrie Farber,
21:24
Speaker 1: had ever left her son. Her family refused to speak
21:28
Speaker 1: to them as a matter of fact, take a listen
21:31
Speaker 1: to our friends on tangled web Terry's mother had filed
21:35
Speaker 1: the missing person report with the police, and she was
21:38
Speaker 1: becoming increasingly concerned with each passing day. In the weeks
21:44
Speaker 1: after she left, Carrie was still communicating with her family.
21:47
Speaker 1: She would send text messages to her mother, Nancy. When
21:51
Speaker 1: I get text messages, I would just say, please call me.
21:55
Speaker 1: I just need to hear your voice. And she would say, well,
21:59
Speaker 1: this has got to be good enough for you. Whoa
22:02
Speaker 1: just the text has to be good enough for you.
22:05
Speaker 1: That's contrary to her years and years and years routine behavior.
22:12
Speaker 1: While Carrie's family is concerned that she just up and
22:16
Speaker 1: moves to Kansas, Dave Krupa, the guy who fell for her,
22:21
Speaker 1: had a completely different reaction when Carrie farther disappears to Kansas.
22:28
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at twenty twenty, Well,
22:31
Speaker 1: Carrie's family was afraid for her, Dave Krupa was growing
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Speaker 1: afraid of her. I would regularly receive sixty plus texts
22:42
Speaker 1: a day, one hundred emails a Dave was not like
22:47
Speaker 1: and as far as phone calls, hundreds of hundreds, and
22:51
Speaker 1: I had changed phone numbers so many times it was ridiculous.
22:54
Speaker 1: Carrie's rage seemed to be focused on his ex girlfriend Liz,
22:58
Speaker 1: who he had dated Joe before he started dating Carroll.
23:02
Speaker 1: Carrie sent messages like she is nothing, she's a fat cow.
23:07
Speaker 1: She looks like she lost her puppy. Maybe she'll do
23:10
Speaker 1: us all a favor and kill herself lol. She wrote, Liz,
23:15
Speaker 1: if you don't keep your hands and lips off my man,
23:17
Speaker 1: I will hurt you. And she seems to be everywhere.
23:22
Speaker 1: On one specific occasion, I was sitting in my lazy
23:25
Speaker 1: boy with my feet up, watching TV, try and relax,
23:28
Speaker 1: and it's nighttime, and I get a text saying I
23:31
Speaker 1: see you. You're sitting in a chair with your feet
23:33
Speaker 1: propped up, wearing a blue shirt. And those things were true. Okay,
23:38
Speaker 1: I'm two thousand miles away and it's creeping me out.
23:42
Speaker 1: Jeff and Dotor Bethany Marshall, Well, it seems like whoever
23:45
Speaker 1: sending these texts have become obsessed with him. I mean,
23:50
Speaker 1: this is stocking behavior, right, when somebody becomes obsessed with
23:55
Speaker 1: another person, and the person with whom they're obsessed they
23:59
Speaker 1: have no true or actual relationship. I mean, sure, maybe
24:03
Speaker 1: they've gone out on a couple of dates. Maybe they
24:05
Speaker 1: had a glass of wine together, they met for coffee,
24:07
Speaker 1: but there's nothing beyond that, And yet she becomes obsessed
24:12
Speaker 1: with him and then stuck in feelings of rejection like
24:17
Speaker 1: you and I've talked about so many times as the
24:19
Speaker 1: stocking behavior, when the perpetrator imaginements there's a special and
24:24
Speaker 1: unique relationship even when there's no evidence to support that,
24:28
Speaker 1: and they go after the victim for perceived rejections. So
24:31
Speaker 1: I think is deeper than doctor Bethany. I think the
24:36
Speaker 1: rejection it's not the rejection of a guy you've dated
24:39
Speaker 1: for you know, a month or two. It's that that
24:42
Speaker 1: rejection triggers something else inside of you, not just that
24:48
Speaker 1: one person rejecting you, but a feeling that you, as
24:52
Speaker 1: a person have been rejected. What's wrong with me? What
24:56
Speaker 1: did I do wrong? Why her? Not me? And here
25:00
Speaker 1: we see you know that's for you. You're the shrink.
25:03
Speaker 1: I'm just a trial longer like a true psychoanalyst. Nancy,
25:07
Speaker 1: you're thinking like a psychoanalyst. Now, which Hello, Now I'm scared.
25:11
Speaker 1: Wendy Patchack, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags. Hello,
25:16
Speaker 1: red Flags Here we see her not just going after
25:21
Speaker 1: David Krupa, she dated and he totally fell for her.
25:25
Speaker 1: She moves away, but she's also going after remember Liz
25:31
Speaker 1: Gawyer that he dated and met at the coffee shop.
25:35
Speaker 1: She goes after her and starts texting her incessantly. Yeah.
25:39
Speaker 1: When you read these text messages, what it really sounds
25:42
Speaker 1: like is not just that she was angry at him,
25:45
Speaker 1: but it basically she took it so personally that she
25:48
Speaker 1: ended up getting triggered for this and insecurity this obsession,
25:52
Speaker 1: her focus became fixation, not just with her relationship, but
25:56
Speaker 1: with anybody else this man dared have a relationship with. Yeah,
26:00
Speaker 1: I find it very interesting that people, men and women
26:04
Speaker 1: in a relationship, when your partner breaks up, you blame
26:09
Speaker 1: the other woman or the other man. They didn't know
26:12
Speaker 1: you a duty. It was your partner. Guys, it goes
26:17
Speaker 1: beyond just a few messages. Take a listen to our friends.
26:20
Speaker 1: At crime online dot com. Krupa and Gallyer received dozens
26:24
Speaker 1: of harassing messages. The pair make repeated complaints to police
26:28
Speaker 1: for years. Investigations show the messages were sent from accounts
26:32
Speaker 1: bearing Farvar's name. Soon the threats become all too real.
26:36
Speaker 1: Gallyer's house was set on fire, killing her pets, and
26:39
Speaker 1: that's when Gallier tells police that maybe it's not Farther
26:42
Speaker 1: sending the messages. Farther and Krupa had actually only dated
26:45
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, but he had had a
26:47
Speaker 1: long term relationship and children with Amy Flora. Maybe she
26:52
Speaker 1: was a better suspect. Oh my goodness, who's sending all
26:57
Speaker 1: of these messages? You know? Derek Ellington, if i computer
27:00
Speaker 1: forensics examiner at ellington dot net, Derek, how do you
27:05
Speaker 1: go about tracing who is sending texts? And as a
27:09
Speaker 1: whole other psychological canon worms about who would take on
27:13
Speaker 1: if it's not if it's not Carrie Farmer, who would
27:17
Speaker 1: take on her identity? But to you Ellington, how do
27:22
Speaker 1: you trace who's sending texts when you see it's from
27:25
Speaker 1: that person's phone? Well, and it can be tough. It
27:29
Speaker 1: can be tough to trace a text message. Law enforcement
27:33
Speaker 1: does have some capabilities when you're using traditional text messaging.
27:39
Speaker 1: We can find out who it is through the carrier
27:41
Speaker 1: records and stuff like that. It gets tougher when people
27:44
Speaker 1: start using the apps and the websites and stuff to
27:47
Speaker 1: send texts, though law enforcement can sometimes if we can
27:51
Speaker 1: find the app that the person is using or the
27:54
Speaker 1: website that they're using, then we can have some ways
27:56
Speaker 1: to track back, like you know, by IP address or
27:59
Speaker 1: something track get back to their phone. But yes, admittedly
28:02
Speaker 1: it's difficult with the availability of these apps and spoofing
28:06
Speaker 1: websites and things like that. Now, hold on just a moment.
28:09
Speaker 1: Apps and spoofing websites be clear for listeners that don't
28:14
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. What kind of app or
28:17
Speaker 1: spoofing website would hide or mimic someone else's cell number. Correct,
28:24
Speaker 1: There's a lot of those out there, and the basic
28:26
Speaker 1: idea is that there are apps I don't want to
28:29
Speaker 1: name them, to not give them press, but their apps
28:32
Speaker 1: so you can get their websites you can go to
28:34
Speaker 1: and basically you can either sign up for a number
28:39
Speaker 1: that is yours, which allows you to send and receive,
28:41
Speaker 1: but it's an untraceable number, it's not tied back to you.
28:44
Speaker 1: Or you can even go to websites and say I
28:47
Speaker 1: wanted to send somebody a message and looks like it
28:49
Speaker 1: came from you, Nancy. If I had your cell phone number,
28:52
Speaker 1: I could put it in there as the from number,
28:57
Speaker 1: and I could send somebody a text message and then
28:59
Speaker 1: we'll look like it came from you. Time Stories with
29:15
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, This guy David Creep and now getting a
29:20
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty plus texts a day. Take a listen
29:24
Speaker 1: to this nine one one call one with seats of
29:30
Speaker 1: your emergency. Oh yeah, I've been shot awake? Okay? Where
29:35
Speaker 1: are you at park by the sheriffs part my big
29:42
Speaker 1: Blake Park? Yes? Do you know who did it? Okay?
29:49
Speaker 1: What's your phone number? And that's from the potent Tali
29:53
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office. Take a listen to more that nine
29:55
Speaker 1: one one call? When did it happen? Well, I'm also
30:03
Speaker 1: you to walk from the place. See in my car? Okay?
30:07
Speaker 1: Is the assailant still near by? I don't think so.
30:11
Speaker 1: I took on burning? Okay, which way? How many people
30:19
Speaker 1: were there? Yeah? Oh I don't know how I lay
30:23
Speaker 1: in one? Do you know if it was a mail
30:27
Speaker 1: or female femail? Do you know which way? Oh? It's
30:34
Speaker 1: in the op direction that I went And I don't know?
30:37
Speaker 1: Straight out to you leave my page? Crime online dot
30:39
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter who is shot in the leg. So
30:43
Speaker 1: what you just heard is Shana Liz Golder, who called
30:48
Speaker 1: nine one one. She said that she was walking alone
30:52
Speaker 1: at night in twenty fifteen at Big Lake Park and
30:56
Speaker 1: someone shot her in the leg. You know, shot in
30:59
Speaker 1: the leg, Jessica Morgan, Professor Forensics and death investigator. You
31:03
Speaker 1: shoot somebody in the femoral artery and the top of
31:06
Speaker 1: the leg, they're dead. They bleed out just like that. Yeah,
31:09
Speaker 1: you can. You know that the femoral artery splits off
31:12
Speaker 1: of the base the A order, which is the largest
31:14
Speaker 1: vessel in the body, So yeah, you can bleed out easily.
31:17
Speaker 1: I think as an investigator, I'd want to know specifically
31:21
Speaker 1: where she was shot anatomically, you know what portion of
31:24
Speaker 1: the leg. And also I'm going to get her clothes
31:29
Speaker 1: if she which obviously she would go into the emergency room.
31:32
Speaker 1: I'd want to check things like range of fire. You know,
31:35
Speaker 1: she's telling me she's just been assaulted by another woman
31:41
Speaker 1: with a firearm and the other woman ran away. This
31:44
Speaker 1: is a typical Nancy always really a typical and right
31:49
Speaker 1: now apparently the victim, Shanna Liz Gallier, is saying it's
31:56
Speaker 1: not Carrie Fever, the girlfriend, It's not her, the one
32:00
Speaker 1: that moved away. Maybe it's David Creepa's longtime love is
32:06
Speaker 1: common law wife, so to speak, the mother of his
32:09
Speaker 1: two children that lives just one hour away. So I
32:14
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our cut twelve.
32:18
Speaker 1: This is a call we get Liz gall Your home
32:21
Speaker 1: from the hospital. This is a call between detectives and
32:25
Speaker 1: Liz gall Your seeking gall Your's help. See if you
32:29
Speaker 1: could kind of push her for some more info on
32:33
Speaker 1: the carry thing, what she did to carry and so
32:36
Speaker 1: forth like that, that would help our case immensely if
32:39
Speaker 1: it was more specific. So you guys want me to
32:43
Speaker 1: try and email her back. I'm leaving that in her court, Liz.
32:47
Speaker 1: I mean, if that's something you would feel okay doing,
32:53
Speaker 1: that'd be really helpful for us. So you're hearing from
32:56
Speaker 1: our friends at a tangled Web twenty twenty. Let me understand,
33:00
Speaker 1: do you leave ipage crime online dot Com detective then
33:04
Speaker 1: elicit Gawlier to try to lure in the x X
33:12
Speaker 1: the mother of the children, to reveal it's really her.
33:16
Speaker 1: Is that's what? Is that? What's happening right now? Yes, So,
33:19
Speaker 1: Liz Gawlier had been shot and she said that it
33:23
Speaker 1: was Amy Flora. Dave Krupa's X, the mother of his
33:27
Speaker 1: two children, and she is communicating with Liz and they
33:32
Speaker 1: want to get a confession out of her, not only
33:34
Speaker 1: that she shot Liz, but that she was responsible for
33:39
Speaker 1: Carrie Farber's disappearance. The plot begins to thick, and now
33:45
Speaker 1: Liz Gawlier, the girlfriend, reveals an email sent by the X,
33:53
Speaker 1: Amy Flora. Listen to this, I think now are we
33:57
Speaker 1: finding out what happened to care when she moved away? Listen,
34:03
Speaker 1: when I met Crazy Carry, she would not stop talking
34:05
Speaker 1: about Dave and him being her husband. She tried to
34:08
Speaker 1: attack me, but I attacked her with a knife. We
34:10
Speaker 1: stabbed her three or four times in the chest and
34:13
Speaker 1: stomach area, and then took her out and burned her.
34:15
Speaker 1: I stuffed her body in a garbage can with crap.
34:18
Speaker 1: The details were bone chilling because they were graphic. You're earing.
34:23
Speaker 1: Detectives read an email allegedly sent by the X of
34:28
Speaker 1: twelve years, the mother of the two boys, Amy Flora too,
34:33
Speaker 1: Liz Gallier, the one on the dating website. Wow, so
34:38
Speaker 1: there we have Amy Flora confessing to murdering Carrie. Do
34:45
Speaker 1: we have the answer yet about what happened to Carrie? Listen.
34:50
Speaker 1: We opened up this door, we pulled out the passenger seat,
34:53
Speaker 1: and we pulled off the fabric off that passenger seat,
34:55
Speaker 1: and that's where we found that big red stain right
34:57
Speaker 1: in the bottom of the seat. It's a positive test
35:00
Speaker 1: human blood. So like we had located the murder scene. Finally,
35:06
Speaker 1: tangible evidence, finally instead of digital evidence. We took the
35:12
Speaker 1: DNA from the blood that we found on the seat
35:15
Speaker 1: and it was a match for carry Farber's DNA. It's
35:19
Speaker 1: a huge moment. It changed this from a missing person's investigation,
35:23
Speaker 1: and that was a homicide investigation. So Carrie, this innocent woman,
35:29
Speaker 1: Carrie Farver, her blood is drenching the seat of this
35:36
Speaker 1: car that was the primary d crime scene. To you,
35:42
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, she didn't move away. She's dead. No.
35:47
Speaker 1: I urge all of our listeners to go online and
35:50
Speaker 1: take a look at this image. I looked at it
35:52
Speaker 1: and I was shocked. Nancy, this is what we would
35:55
Speaker 1: for too as a supersaturated site. It's evidence of what
35:59
Speaker 1: we in fancy terms, what we'd say as copious amounts
36:03
Speaker 1: of blood. It's a lot of blood, Nancy. It went
36:05
Speaker 1: through the top layer of the seat, through the phone
36:08
Speaker 1: padding and down to the base level and right you
36:11
Speaker 1: are when you say that this is the primary site, Nancy.
36:15
Speaker 1: She would have had to have sat there for a
36:18
Speaker 1: protracted period of time for all of this blood to
36:21
Speaker 1: drain down, let's just say, from the chest area, between
36:25
Speaker 1: her legs, around her legs, through her own clothing, and
36:28
Speaker 1: then seat down into the fabric of the seat. She
36:32
Speaker 1: was there for a while. She in my opinion, at least,
36:36
Speaker 1: I think that she probably breathed her last right there
36:39
Speaker 1: in that very spot where the police were taking a
36:42
Speaker 1: look and had taken this. There can't be that much
36:44
Speaker 1: blood and the person still be alive. So the bizarre
36:51
Speaker 1: nature of the X of twelve years the mother of
36:55
Speaker 1: the two children carrying a torch for David Krupa all
36:59
Speaker 1: this time. Wait a minute, another twist. Listen to Detective
37:06
Speaker 1: Dave Schneider. No, the reason why you're in this chair
37:11
Speaker 1: right now today, it's because you have a lot of
37:13
Speaker 1: questions that you need the answer for me. Her phone
37:16
Speaker 1: was at your house right after she disappeared. I want
37:20
Speaker 1: to ask you how you can explain that to me. Please,
37:22
Speaker 1: She's never been to my house. Your fingerprints are inside
37:26
Speaker 1: her vehicle. How would your fingerprints be inside her vehicle?
37:30
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I've never been in her car.
37:31
Speaker 1: You drove her car? No, we didn't. I've never been
37:35
Speaker 1: inside her car. I've never even been around her car. Ever,
37:41
Speaker 1: your praying your prints are in there. No, I haven't.
37:44
Speaker 1: I'm not lying. I've never been around her car. I've
37:47
Speaker 1: never even seen it. Guys, you're not hearing the voice
37:51
Speaker 1: of the x of twelve years, the mother of the
37:53
Speaker 1: two boys of David Krupa. You are hearing the online
37:57
Speaker 1: dating girlfriend. It's Shanna Liz Gallier. Let me understand, leave
38:04
Speaker 1: I paca. For four years, Gallier has been pretending to
38:08
Speaker 1: be the dead woman. You're absolutely correct, Nancy, and Liz
38:12
Speaker 1: Gallier's fingerprint was found inside the vehicle of Carrie Farber.
38:19
Speaker 1: Not only that, Carrie Farber's phone, her camera, and belongings
38:25
Speaker 1: were found inside Liz Goyer's apartments. Isn't it true that
38:30
Speaker 1: there was a photo of a decomposed foot found on
38:34
Speaker 1: Galler's phone. You're absolutely right. It was a tablet, and
38:38
Speaker 1: they searched the tablet and there was a photo of
38:41
Speaker 1: a foot on Liz Gawyer's phone, and it had the
38:45
Speaker 1: Chinese word for mother on the ankle, the same tattoo
38:51
Speaker 1: that Kaitlin Farber has. Derek Ellington, was there any way
38:57
Speaker 1: police could have busted this case before now? I mean,
39:00
Speaker 1: they had no reason to suspect the online dating profile
39:04
Speaker 1: girl is Gawyer well Nancye. That's what's heartbreaking about this case,
39:08
Speaker 1: especially for the Farmer family and for her son. While
39:12
Speaker 1: the law enforcement did an excellent job once they decided
39:16
Speaker 1: to pursue the case, I believe it was a failure
39:18
Speaker 1: of law enforcement from the beginning. They had so many resources,
39:23
Speaker 1: even stuff they talk about tracking the cell tower data
39:26
Speaker 1: for the phone following the text message, even emails. Emails
39:30
Speaker 1: give you so much more of an ability to trace
39:32
Speaker 1: somebody in the text message. And the takeaway I believe
39:36
Speaker 1: is if you're in the situation where a family member
39:39
Speaker 1: is missing and you have a concern, you have to
39:42
Speaker 1: be the squeaky wheel. You have to stay on top
39:44
Speaker 1: of it. So again, the initial failure of law enforcement
39:48
Speaker 1: is heartbreaking. Once they decided to take the case serious,
39:53
Speaker 1: it just all fell into place. Dator Bethanie Marshall, I
39:56
Speaker 1: need to shrink and how explain this? How could this
39:59
Speaker 1: woman pose as the dead victim? Carrie Farber. I mean
40:04
Speaker 1: she only dated David Cruper for two weeks, right, and
40:08
Speaker 1: then she moved away. She was dead all this time,
40:12
Speaker 1: and apparently Liz Gawyer was sending one hundred and sixty
40:15
Speaker 1: texts plus a day to Krupa to Carrie Farber's family
40:21
Speaker 1: four years. Nancy, I'll never forget a show. I was
40:25
Speaker 1: on on hl End with you your show, the Nancy
40:28
Speaker 1: Gray Show, and we were covering a case of a
40:33
Speaker 1: woman who was stalking another woman, and the soccer had
40:38
Speaker 1: taken up residence in the basement underneath her victim's house.
40:44
Speaker 1: Not even not even the basement, actually, it was just
40:48
Speaker 1: the floorboards. She had herself squeezed right under the floorboards
40:53
Speaker 1: so she could hear all of the activities and the
40:56
Speaker 1: phone conversations and the life of the woman she was stalking.
41:01
Speaker 1: And that was my first introduction to how serious stalking
41:04
Speaker 1: can be, beyond what you read in the literature or
41:07
Speaker 1: all the studies that this was a face to this
41:10
Speaker 1: kind of crime. In this case, what I think it's
41:13
Speaker 1: fascinating is Gallier not only stalks a man she has
41:18
Speaker 1: been dating for two weeks, but in some ways she
41:22
Speaker 1: assumes the identity of Farber, not just to throw people
41:26
Speaker 1: off the track that she's killed Farber, but also she
41:30
Speaker 1: takes a symbol of Farber's motherhood. You know that there's
41:34
Speaker 1: a tattoo indicating that she's a mother on her foot.
41:38
Speaker 1: Gallier takes a picture of the decomposing foot. It's just
41:42
Speaker 1: as she was stalking both victims, the mother who had
41:47
Speaker 1: a beautiful life and the so called boyfriend she had
41:52
Speaker 1: dated for two weeks, as if everybody else's life is
41:55
Speaker 1: better than hers. She's full of envy. She feels rejected,
41:59
Speaker 1: its us into something historical for her, and she kind
42:02
Speaker 1: of morphs into those people's lives and becomes them in
42:06
Speaker 1: some very sick, pathological way. Guys, don't worry. This woman,
42:12
Speaker 1: Shannel Liz Gawyer is serving life behind bars for the
42:17
Speaker 1: murder of her perceived love rival, the victim, Carry Farmer,
42:23
Speaker 1: and then posing as her on social media for four
42:26
Speaker 1: years to cover up the crime. Left behind the victim's
42:33
Speaker 1: family wondering what happened. Nancy Gray's crime story signing off
42:41
Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,