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CARNIVAL CRUISE TEEN CHEERLEADER 'FOUGHT FOR HER LIFE,' STILL NO ARREST · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: The carnival cruise teen girl, the little cheerleader, we now
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  Speaker 2: learn thought for her life, strangled dead a mechanical strangulation.
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  Speaker 2: What is that and why no charges? I'm Nancy Grace,
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  Speaker 2: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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  Speaker 2: being with us.
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  Speaker 3: Teen girl Anna dead on a carnival cruise.
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  Speaker 1: Her body is found stuffed under.
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  Speaker 2: A cabin bed, life vests stuffed on top of.
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  Speaker 3: Her to hide her dead body. In the last hours,
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  Speaker 3: Anna Kettner, the.
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  Speaker 2: Teen girl cheerleader going to that Titus Little Christian school,
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  Speaker 2: already had her future mapped out, very organized, planning to
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  Speaker 2: join the military and ultimately be a police officer in
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  Speaker 2: the K nine unit.
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  Speaker 1: That little girl, the one scrubbed in sunshine.
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  Speaker 3: Let's see a picture of Anna, please, there you go.
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  Speaker 3: That's Santa Keptner. She's dead.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, the first photo was her experimenting with blonde hair.
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  Speaker 2: She's dead, stuffed under a cruise ship bed, wrapped in
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  Speaker 2: a blanket mummy style we've been told, and then with
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  Speaker 2: life jackets crammed on.
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  Speaker 3: Top of her to hide her body.
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  Speaker 4: Listen, Anna Kaepner's death on board a carnival cruise ship
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  Speaker 4: now ruled a homicide, her autopsy stating she was mechanically
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  Speaker 4: asphyxiated by another person or person's The medical examiner finds
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  Speaker 4: two bruises on the side of Anna's neck. She may
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  Speaker 4: have been held in a bar hold, meaning her attacker
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  Speaker 4: held an arm across her neck.
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  Speaker 3: See her in her little dive shirt.
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  Speaker 2: She loved to scuba, she loved to snorkel, she loved
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  Speaker 2: to fish, loved being out on the water.
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  Speaker 3: Joining me at the scene.
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  Speaker 2: Private investigator Robert Crispin with Christmins Special Investigations, former Federal
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  Speaker 2: Task Force for the Department of Justice.
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  Speaker 3: This is the US government. He has worked his entire
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  Speaker 3: life in this jurisdiction.
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  Speaker 2: It is a floating crime scene, and now Robert Crispin
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  Speaker 2: that we learn it was a mechanical strangulation.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to go to doctor Kimmel Crowns.
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  Speaker 2: In just one moment the crime scene, the crime scene
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  Speaker 2: when you were living in close quarters with someone sharing
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  Speaker 2: a small cramp space, the DNA processing of that scene
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  Speaker 2: becomes even more vital. I mean, it's like a peachry
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  Speaker 2: dish of DNA and now it's all gone. Can you
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  Speaker 2: refresh everyone's recollection about the cruise ship investigators that first
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  Speaker 2: process that scene.
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  Speaker 5: Well, scary enough.
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  Speaker 6: Those guys aren't crime scene tech guys, and they're not
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  Speaker 6: former law enforcement guys. These are guys who took a
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  Speaker 6: test on the internet, got their license, and all of
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  Speaker 6: a sudden, they're protecting, you know, four thousand.
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  Speaker 5: People on a cruise ship.
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  Speaker 6: But what's critical about this homicide is going to come
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  Speaker 6: down to DNA.
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  Speaker 5: It's going to come down to DNA.
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  Speaker 6: And what the medical examiner says in the autopsy, the
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  Speaker 6: cause of death, et cetera, et cetera. More importantly, did
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  Speaker 6: the victim fight DNA under her nails?
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  Speaker 5: Did she scratch the suspect?
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  Speaker 6: In all of these cases, Nancy, these victims fight for
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  Speaker 6: their life.
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  Speaker 5: They're clawing DNA is under their.
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  Speaker 6: Nails of the suspect who's trying to kill them. This
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  Speaker 6: is going to be very, very very important, critical evidence
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  Speaker 6: to go towards and arrest, an indictment or something to
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  Speaker 6: get this guy or rested.
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  Speaker 5: And put in jail.
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  Speaker 6: It's going to take a little bit of time now
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  Speaker 6: because obviously we don't have a confession, because if we
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  Speaker 6: had a confession, he'd already be in jail.
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  Speaker 5: So the FBI.
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  Speaker 3: Right there Robert Crispin.
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  Speaker 2: I heard you referring to cause of death and mod
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  Speaker 2: man of death as et cetera, et cetera.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: I remember reading one of my own transcripts of a trial.
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  Speaker 2: I tried a felony and I was writing the appeal
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  Speaker 2: to hold the conviction on appeal. And I must have
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  Speaker 2: been very, very tired by the end of that trial
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  Speaker 2: because I was arguing to the judge and I was
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  Speaker 2: making my legal argument and said and judge blah blah, okay,
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  Speaker 2: like you're etcetera, etcetera.
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  Speaker 3: I know one.
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  Speaker 2: Person, aside from myself that will take issue with the
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  Speaker 2: cause of death and manner of death being called et cetera,
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  Speaker 2: et cetera. Doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief Medical Examiner
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  Speaker 2: Terran County, host of Hitney podcast Mayhem in the Morgue.
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  Speaker 2: He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
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  Speaker 2: Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendel Crowns, thank you for being
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  Speaker 2: with us. Got a lot of questions for you about
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  Speaker 2: mechanical strangulation.
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  Speaker 3: What is it.
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  Speaker 7: So?
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  Speaker 8: Mechanical asphyxia is basically some sort of compression on the
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  Speaker 8: chest or neck that makes it impossible for you to breathe. Specifically,
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  Speaker 8: mechanical strangulation, what they're referring to as a bar hold
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  Speaker 8: or chokehold is where the arm is placed across the
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  Speaker 8: front of the neck and then drawn back with the
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  Speaker 8: other arm, impressing your trachea and making it impossible for
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  Speaker 8: you to breathe. The other situation is the crotted sleeperhold,
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  Speaker 8: where they put your neck in the cruck of the
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  Speaker 8: arm and then compress both sides of your crodit causing
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  Speaker 8: the blood not to flow to your brain and you
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  Speaker 8: pass out. So either one of those scenarios could be
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  Speaker 8: what they're defining as mechanical asphyxia or mechanical strangul.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand something. You put your arm across
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  Speaker 2: your neck to demonstrate mechanical strangulation.
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  Speaker 3: But we have learned tonight that.
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  Speaker 2: Anna had two bruises on the side off her neck,
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  Speaker 2: not the track, not the front, the side off her neck.
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  Speaker 3: What does that mean?
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  Speaker 8: So it could mean when they're compressing the neck with
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  Speaker 8: the arm, that they're placing pressure with the other arm
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  Speaker 8: along the side of the neck and the arm is
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  Speaker 8: kind of to the side, causing the bruising. It could
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  Speaker 8: also mean that he placed her in a crotted sleeperhold
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  Speaker 8: and using the cruck of his arm, both sides of
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  Speaker 8: his arm compress on either sides of her neck, compressing
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  Speaker 8: her karated and karatids, and caused her to pass out
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  Speaker 8: and die from lack of blood to her brain.
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  Speaker 3: You know another thing.
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  Speaker 2: Let me check with Shannon Butler on this investigative reporter
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  Speaker 2: WFTV Channel nine in Florida, who's been on Anna's case
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  Speaker 2: from the beginning. Shannon, we are being told that while
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  Speaker 2: the entire autopsy is not complete, specifically toxicology and other
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  Speaker 2: lab work, that there was no sign of sex attack.
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  Speaker 2: Have you learned that as well?
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, that's what we understand. I mean, remember, most of
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  Speaker 9: the information that we had been getting came mostly from
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  Speaker 9: family members, but that death certificate, at least preliminary information,
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  Speaker 9: does suggest that that's the case.
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  Speaker 2: Dancing, Okay, I'm looking at the death certificate. What part
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  Speaker 2: of the death certificate tells you there was no sex attack.
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  Speaker 9: Well, the death certificate does not, but information that we've
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  Speaker 9: received from sources from the family members have indicated that
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  Speaker 9: that is not a pace.
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  Speaker 10: This situation.
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  Speaker 2: Really really okay, because you refer to the death certificate
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  Speaker 2: as proving there was no sex attack. And there's not
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  Speaker 2: one word on this death certificate according that says anything
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  Speaker 2: about lack of sex attack or sex attack, so it's
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  Speaker 2: not on the death certificate. So we're getting the no
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  Speaker 2: sex attack knowledge from the family.
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  Speaker 3: Is that correct?
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  Speaker 9: The family and from other sources that are close to
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  Speaker 9: this investigation.
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  Speaker 10: But that doesn't mean Okay, we're.
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  Speaker 9: Still a long way from having all of the answers
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  Speaker 9: that we need in this case. And I don't know
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  Speaker 9: that anybody is satisfied with the information that's been released
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  Speaker 9: so far.
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  Speaker 2: You know, doctor Kendle Crowns, I want to follow up
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  Speaker 2: on what Shannon Butler just told us from WFTV, Doctor
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  Speaker 2: Kendall Crowns. If we don't have the toxicology report, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: then how am I to believe that we have a
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  Speaker 2: DNA result from a rape kit?
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  Speaker 8: Well, toxicology reports can take up to six to eight weeks,
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  Speaker 8: so you potentially don't have the DNA report back from
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  Speaker 8: a sexual assault kit or a rape kit because there
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  Speaker 8: hasn't been enough time pass. So again, there'd have to
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  Speaker 8: be a little more testing done, a little more stuff
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  Speaker 8: done by the crime labs before it's all back. My
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  Speaker 8: answer to that is maybe there is still DNA out
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  Speaker 8: there waiting to get done and we just don't know
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  Speaker 8: about it yet.
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  Speaker 2: Dodger Kentle Crowns, how long did you say would tape
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  Speaker 2: for a talks you for?
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  Speaker 6: It?
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  Speaker 2: Can't there be a rush on it.
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  Speaker 8: There can be a rush on it, but typically it
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  Speaker 8: can take six to eight weeks depending on what drugs
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  Speaker 8: are on board, Especially if there's some sort of synthetic
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  Speaker 8: or designer drug being looked for, it can take up
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  Speaker 8: to two months.
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  Speaker 3: What do you mean by synthetic or designer Please.
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  Speaker 8: Like synthetic marijuana, bath salts, those kind of designer drugs
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  Speaker 8: that every so often show up that we don't have
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  Speaker 8: a lot of specific testing for. Some more has to
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  Speaker 8: be done every day that the drug chemists are making
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  Speaker 8: new variations on drugs that the toxicology labs are constantly
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  Speaker 8: having to test for to try and keep ahead.
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  Speaker 2: Of Now another issue straight up to Sydney Suner joining
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  Speaker 2: US Crime Stories investigative reporter Sidney, the word is getting
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  Speaker 2: put out that there was no sex attack and that
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  Speaker 2: drugs or alcohol did not play a contributing factor in
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  Speaker 2: her death. We don't even have the talks report. We
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  Speaker 2: don't have a DNA report, so where is this coming from.
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  Speaker 2: It's premature.
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  Speaker 7: I agree it's premature. It's coming from family members who
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  Speaker 7: have seen a more detailed death certificate than has been
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  Speaker 7: released to the public.
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  Speaker 1: But how do we know.
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  Speaker 7: How do they know this information if those reports have
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  Speaker 7: not been made official. There are so many confusing details
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  Speaker 7: about this case.
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  Speaker 2: Nancy, Yeah, Sidney, I think that people very often they
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  Speaker 2: project what they want to be true.
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  Speaker 3: There was a lot made at the get go, and
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  Speaker 3: this is on a court video.
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  Speaker 2: We have it on video where a civil attorney stated
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  Speaker 2: that the teens had been drinking. Now Carnival Cruz says,
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  Speaker 2: oh no, they were absolutely not drinking. But again, Robert Crispin,
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  Speaker 2: the proof will be in the pudding. Everybody can say
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  Speaker 2: whatever they want to say right now. No sex attack,
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  Speaker 2: sex attack, no drugs or alcohol.
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  Speaker 3: Drugs are alcohol in the system. We don't have any
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  Speaker 3: of those results.
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  Speaker 2: And again, remember the bands that everybody wears on cruise ships.
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  Speaker 2: They will tell it sure whether you I said earlier,
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  Speaker 2: had a bag of chips much less much less a drink.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: That Carnival Cruise will give a miner a drink. So
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  Speaker 2: it may very well not show up on a risk band. Again,
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  Speaker 2: they're denying any alcohol was served to a miner, but
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  Speaker 2: could the miner get the alcohol in another way? Haven't
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  Speaker 2: you ever driven up to a seven to eleven and
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  Speaker 2: you see a bunch of teens out there and they're
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  Speaker 2: paying people or asking people to bring them out beer.
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  Speaker 5: Absolutely, I've seen it. As a matter of fact.
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  Speaker 6: Carnival's blanket statement has to be that Nancy. They can't
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  Speaker 6: come out to the public and say that they serve
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  Speaker 6: miners at sea.
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  Speaker 5: They can't do that.
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  Speaker 6: And any of this information that's coming out is being
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  Speaker 6: released from the family.
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  Speaker 5: And don't forget Nancy.
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  Speaker 6: They had at least twenty four hours before that ship
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  Speaker 6: got back to the port of Miami that that family
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  Speaker 6: was able to get together, concoct their story and see
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  Speaker 6: or decide what they're going to release. They had a
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  Speaker 6: lot of time for family, protect family. And that's why
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  Speaker 6: this family may not want to release that she was
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  Speaker 6: sexually assaulted.
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  Speaker 5: If she was, they didn't want that out there.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, Crispin, Yeah, I learned that Anna was feeling badly.
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  Speaker 3: She's felt poorly.
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  Speaker 2: It was because of her braces were hurting her and
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  Speaker 2: she asked to go back. She asked to go back
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  Speaker 2: to the room early during dinner. She went back, but
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  Speaker 2: then she got dressed up and re emerged. And what
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  Speaker 2: we're learning is.
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  Speaker 3: She had on this cute little outfit.
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  Speaker 2: But in one report, Crispin, just one, it said Anne
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  Speaker 2: was wrapped only in a blanket with life Best stuffed
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  Speaker 2: over her only only in a blanket, which led me
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  Speaker 2: to believe that she was naked under the blanket.
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  Speaker 3: That's yet to be born out.
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  Speaker 2: But if that is true, or if she was partially clothed,
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  Speaker 2: why else would she have been partially clothed, stuffed under
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  Speaker 2: a twin bed, or naked wrapped in a blanket unless
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  Speaker 2: there had been a sex attack.
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  Speaker 3: What I'm saying is just because.
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  Speaker 2: There's not DNA, just because there's not sperm on or
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  Speaker 2: in her.
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  Speaker 3: Body, does not mean there was not a sex attack.
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  Speaker 5: Correct.
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  Speaker 6: And if you go back and you listen to one
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  Speaker 6: of the statements that was made from Anna's ex boyfriend's
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  Speaker 6: father that the step son had climbed on top of
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  Speaker 6: her one night when she was in bed.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I know that Project Innocence and the Poverty
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Law Institute and all the defense bars. You're gonna get
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  Speaker 2: mad when I say this, but they could just chew
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  Speaker 2: on this. When you don't know a horse, look at
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  Speaker 2: his track record.
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  Speaker 3: Listen.
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  Speaker 11: She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to
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  Speaker 11: tell anybody because she was scared that he would do
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  Speaker 11: something to her.
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  Speaker 4: Joshua too, says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was
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  Speaker 4: one sided. The sixteen year old is obsessed with Anna
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  Speaker 4: and made her uncomfortable with romantic advances. He once even
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  Speaker 4: caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while the
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  Speaker 4: two were on FaceTime, Anna already asleep.
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  Speaker 12: He said that I tried to tell the parents that
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  Speaker 12: this was happening, and they didn't want to believe me.
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  Speaker 1: He's like infatuated, attracted her like crazy.
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  Speaker 10: He's always wanted the dator.
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  Speaker 12: Chris doesn't realize it's his fault. This whole thing is
• 14:54
  Speaker 12: his fault. If he would have taken the warnings that
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  Speaker 12: Anna's ex boyfriend gave him, then she would still be here.
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  Speaker 12: So keep that in mind, Christopher, I blame you.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: That from Inside Edition and at Just Mom nineteen eighty
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: four on TikTok, that's Anna's bio mom.
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  Speaker 3: So explain to me.
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  Speaker 2: Shannon Butler investigative reporter WFTV. According to what we're learning
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  Speaker 2: from her ex boyfriend Joshua Too, it's not just what
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: she said happened. He was on FaceTime with her. They
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: were facetiming late at night. Anna fell asleep, but the
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: FaceTime was still going and he, according to reports, saw
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  Speaker 2: the sixteen year old stepbrother crawl on top of her.
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  Speaker 3: He saw it.
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  Speaker 2: It's not just her saying that happened to her, and
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  Speaker 2: then he goes on to state she did not feel
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: safe around him. She was scared to tell anybody because
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: she thought he would quote do something to her.
• 16:03
  Speaker 10: That is what he said to reporters here.
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  Speaker 9: He also told his dad that, and his dad told
• 16:09
  Speaker 9: reporters that there was always this fear Anna had of
• 16:13
  Speaker 9: her stepbrother, but it wasn't just something that she talked about.
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  Speaker 9: The boyfriend said he knew about it and then he
• 16:19
  Speaker 9: saw that when it happened on FaceTime and even said
• 16:21
  Speaker 9: like get off of her.
• 16:23
  Speaker 10: So there are a lot of questions about.
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: Exactly what Anna told him and if that really happened,
• 16:29
  Speaker 9: but that was his statement to reporters just after she
• 16:32
  Speaker 9: was found dead on that Christian two.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Janey Lacy license like a therapist, CEO of life
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: counseling solutions, She's an author, she's a star of her
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: own podcast on YouTube, Doctor Janey Lacey, Thank you for
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: being with us. Why wouldn't she tell her parents? Why
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: did everybody else to know? She was afraid of the
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: teens step brother?
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  Speaker 13: Well, Nancy, I think this speaks to a larger issue
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  Speaker 13: that I see in blended families, especially sometimes adult minimize
• 17:01
  Speaker 13: concerning behaviors because acknowledging them, Nancy would mean they have to.
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  Speaker 14: Confront deeper problems in the family structure.
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  Speaker 13: And there's often like this pressure to present this unified,
• 17:12
  Speaker 13: happy family image. But when children don't feel safe and
• 17:16
  Speaker 13: their safety doesn't come first, especially when a young woman
• 17:19
  Speaker 13: says she's uncomfortable when a boyfriend reportedly witnessing an appropriate behavior,
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  Speaker 13: I mean, those things can't be dismissed.
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  Speaker 14: So I would suggest that she probably didn't tell her
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  Speaker 14: parents because of whatever the family dynamics, probably could have
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  Speaker 14: been minimalization, dismissing, or there was no safety there, so
• 17:34
  Speaker 14: she confided in her boyfriend at the time, and perhaps
• 17:38
  Speaker 14: of friends. But we see this very common and blended families.
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  Speaker 13: When the picture of the happy family comes before the
• 17:44
  Speaker 13: safety and the feelings of the children.
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  Speaker 2: Nancy to Spencer Erinfeld, known as the Cruz Lawyer, that's
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: one of his specialties. He's the founder of Aaronfeld Trial Lawyers.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: He's also an author. Spencer's thank you for being with
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  Speaker 2: us before I take you down the garden path of
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: cruise ship law. You had to confront this at some
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  Speaker 2: point in court.
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  Speaker 3: One in four women look around you. One in four
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  Speaker 3: women and or girls have been sex assaulted in some way.
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  Speaker 1: Bam.
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  Speaker 3: Yet we know it's not reported.
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  Speaker 2: We know that the statistics do not bear out that
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  Speaker 2: it is reported. There is shame attached to it. The
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: girl woman thinks it's her fault. Wow, did I leave him?
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  Speaker 9: On?
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  Speaker 3: Was that my fault?
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Society enforces it? Why she out with a short skirt?
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: On?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Why she out at a bar by herself? Ad nauseum?
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: The victim is always blamed. And I wonder in this
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: case if this little girl, it goes to this title
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Field Christian School, wants to be a K nine handler.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: That's her aspiration. Was afraid no one would believe her
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: or even blame her.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: What about it?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Aaron Feld?
• 19:04
  Speaker 10: Yeah, Unfortunately, it's very true.
• 19:06
  Speaker 15: Nancy, both men and women, or the victims of sexual
• 19:09
  Speaker 15: assault are very reluctant to come forward for all the
• 19:13
  Speaker 15: reasons you just spoke of, the guilt, the shame, the stigma,
• 19:20
  Speaker 15: and all my years of representing victims of sexual assault
• 19:23
  Speaker 15: on cruise lines both men and women, that many of
• 19:27
  Speaker 15: them have been victimized before. This is not the first
• 19:31
  Speaker 15: time they have been the victim of sexual abuse, so
• 19:35
  Speaker 15: they have this compounded emotional paralysis that stops them from
• 19:40
  Speaker 15: reporting it. And Nancy, if they do, the cruise lines,
• 19:45
  Speaker 15: in my experience, are the least hopeful to them in
• 19:50
  Speaker 15: getting them the cure they need and preserving the evidence
• 19:53
  Speaker 15: of these types of assaults, and the cruise lines are
• 19:56
  Speaker 15: guilty of not reporting them because those reports have to
• 19:59
  Speaker 15: be on the Department of Transportation website that will list
• 20:04
  Speaker 15: the number of sexual assaults.
• 20:06
  Speaker 10: That happened per cruise line per quarter. And if they're
• 20:10
  Speaker 10: not reported, the cruise lines don't have to report it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 10: And if they're not reporting.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Enough, my stars, that's an incredible fact.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.
• 20:30
  Speaker 9: Now.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Earlier, doctor Jenny Lacey was describing how some girls may
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: not come forward and tell their own family about a
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: family member or relative that is assaulting them. She brought
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: up that this was a blended family. Well, it's very blended.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Listen.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: By the time Anna is five, Christopher Kaepner is having
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: an affair with a teenage babysitter. When Tabitha Donna Hugh
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: turns eighteen, Chris marries her and they have two children together.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Heather has a hard time maintaining a relationship with Anna
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: due to the bitter divorce with Chris.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: We have reached out to Anna's family, we have not
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: heard back, and I want to remind everyone that nobody
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: has been charged tonight. And I'm wondering why we are
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: told doctor Kendall Crowns that she quote.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Fought for her life.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: How do we know that?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: How could we possibly know that?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Tell me Anna Nutshell, how would we know she quote
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: fought for her life?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: There's evidence.
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: Often with strangulations, the evidence is trying to get the
• 21:38
  Speaker 8: UH objects off your neck, so you'll see scratch marks
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: on the neck from the individual's fingernails themselves. You can
• 21:46
  Speaker 8: also see injuries on the person who is the suspect
• 21:50
  Speaker 8: suspect in the case as well, scratches on their face,
• 21:53
  Speaker 8: scratches on their arms. If you see intense particular hemorrhages
• 21:57
  Speaker 8: or small pinpoint hemorrhages on the face, you know that
• 21:59
  Speaker 8: the compression may have been released and then brought back,
• 22:02
  Speaker 8: and it could be that sign of a struggle as
• 22:04
  Speaker 8: well as well as the bruising on her neck could
• 22:07
  Speaker 8: be from her thrashing about trying to get the restraint
• 22:11
  Speaker 8: off her neck. So there's a number of signs that
• 22:13
  Speaker 8: could show that she fought back to try and get
• 22:15
  Speaker 8: out of the hold.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: A doctor, Kendlegrounds, You're amazing. You just told me two
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: things I hadn't already thought of. You mentioned that if
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the stranglehold him to put.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: On her and then released and she.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Still kept fighting and it was put back, you're saying
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: that that would result in additional particular hemorrhage, which is
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: all the stress. You know, when you're wearing, you're getting
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: your blood pressure right, and it feels like part of
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: your arm is going to blow up because of the pressure.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: It gets so tight, right, That's what happens to your eyes.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: The pressure is so tight that the tiny blood vessels
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: in your eyes hemorrhage.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: They burst, and you see that in asphyxiation.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Strangulation be manual or ligature or mechanical. So explain to
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: me what you were saying. If the pressure had been
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: put on your neck, released and put back, what would
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: you see as evidence of struggle.
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: So again, that would be the particular hemorrhages that you're
• 23:26
  Speaker 8: talking about, the little pinpoint hemorrhages you see in the eye,
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: but you also see them in the periocular region or
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: around the eyes as well, can be throughout the face,
• 23:35
  Speaker 8: the gums. And what happens is it only takes a
• 23:38
  Speaker 8: little bit of pressure to compress your jugular which is
• 23:41
  Speaker 8: four point four pounds, and you're crotted, which is eleven
• 23:43
  Speaker 8: pounds of pressure. And once those are compressed, you do
• 23:47
  Speaker 8: still have a little bit of vertebral artery circulation coming in.
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: But what happens when those are released all of a sudden,
• 23:53
  Speaker 8: that blood comes rushing back into your head. And then
• 23:56
  Speaker 8: if the compression comes back again, that blood is trapped
• 24:00
  Speaker 8: second time, and then that can cause the particular hemorrhages
• 24:03
  Speaker 8: to become more expressed or more pronounced, because you keep
• 24:07
  Speaker 8: getting that blood flow restored and then compressed, and then
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: restored and then eventually completely choked off or constricted. And
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: that's why you'll see more and more bursting of the
• 24:17
  Speaker 8: hemorrhages because of the blood keeps coming back in and
• 24:20
  Speaker 8: then getting stopped.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: That helped me a.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Lot, But I still have one question regarding what does
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: it prove?
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Is it primitive?
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Would the original particular images look different than the second
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: round of particular hemorhages? I mean, can I look at
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: her particular images and determine that the pressure had been applied, released,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: applied again?
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Could I tell that strictly from the particular hemorrhage alone?
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: No, No, there would be no way. It's just if
• 24:54
  Speaker 8: they're really pronounced. Well, I'm telling you the science. But
• 24:58
  Speaker 8: if it's really pronounced, you can get an idea that
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: there's been more blood flow restored. But if there's just
• 25:04
  Speaker 8: minimal particular hemorrhages that occurred initially, it won't be necessarily different.
• 25:10
  Speaker 8: It's just that the fact that there's more of them
• 25:12
  Speaker 8: means that there was more more.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: She said something about thrashing her head back and forth.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to look for evidence proving a struggle because
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: we have been told quote, she fought for her lie.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: You mentioned scratches, got it agree? But what did you
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: say about her.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Thrashing her head?
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Back and forth, which would indicate a struggle. How can
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I tell she thrashed.
• 25:37
  Speaker 8: Put the neck in a carotted sleeper hoole and she
• 25:39
  Speaker 8: starts pushing against the pressure on her neck that can
• 25:44
  Speaker 8: cause the bruising. Also internally, when the skin is dissected
• 25:48
  Speaker 8: up and you look at the neck muscles, you can
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: see stretching of stretching hemorrhages of the neck muscles from
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: them trying to pull out of the hold as well,
• 25:57
  Speaker 8: So you can see that internally like hemorrhages the musculture
• 26:01
  Speaker 8: that showed that she was violently fighting against the constrictive
• 26:05
  Speaker 8: process on her neck.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: Anna excuses herself from dinner early, not feeling well. Surveillance
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: footage shows Anna walking back to and entering the room
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: she shares with her brothers. After eating, The teen boys
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: come back to the room before the youngest sibling ventures
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: out again to explore, leaving Anna and their stepbrother alone.
• 26:23
  Speaker 16: Anna's brother heard a heated argument between them in their
• 26:26
  Speaker 16: cabin the night before Anna was found dead. He heard
• 26:29
  Speaker 16: the stepbrother yelling at Anna. The sounds of furniture overturning
• 26:33
  Speaker 16: and screams from inside the room.
• 26:36
  Speaker 11: He heard him yelling at her like in a harmful
• 26:39
  Speaker 11: way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 11: Like something was like banging around and stuff, and like
• 26:46
  Speaker 11: the chairs were getting thrown around in the room.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: From Inside Edition, there's an investigation conducted by the FBI
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: arising out of sudden death of eighteen year old Anna
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: kept her The little girl was wrapped Anne and seats,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: possibly a blanket. It was a full twenty four hours
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: before her body is found. Anna Kittner, the teen cheerleader,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: dead on a carnival cruise ship. The cruise ship insisting
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: there was no alcohol serf to teens, but in a
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: videoed court hearing, a lawyer says they were drinking.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: What is the truth? Don't know yet because.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: In the last hours a gag order has been placed.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: In other words, the medical examiner can't speak. Everybody's clamped down.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Nobody can speak.
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: Why.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: That's very very unusual.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: But we're learning a lot because of divorce proceedings.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Listen.
• 27:48
  Speaker 17: Court records from stepmom Sean tell Hudson's divorced indicate her
• 27:52
  Speaker 17: sixteen year old son and his stepbrother may be a
• 27:55
  Speaker 17: suspect in the teen's murder. The FBI has remained silent.
• 27:58
  Speaker 17: No charges have been fined.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I would have difficulty in them putting the sixteen year
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: old on the stand because I don't want anything done
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: that would incriminate the young man.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: So I believe what they're saying.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Shannon Butler joining US w FTV on this case from
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the very beginning, joining us out of Florida. You've got
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: ongoing divorce custody proceedings and and those the mom of
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the teen step brother files any emergency here and saying
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not answering any questions. Nobody's taking the stand because
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: it could hurt my son's right to a fair trial,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: a fair trial on what obviously the Anna Kepner murder.
• 28:40
  Speaker 9: Yeah, that was the first we had heard about the
• 28:42
  Speaker 9: stepbrother being a suspect. We didn't get any of that
• 28:45
  Speaker 9: from investigators. But then you go into this, you know,
• 28:48
  Speaker 9: separate court case, and that's how that information was revealed,
• 28:52
  Speaker 9: and that's what kind of started everybody now asking these questions.
• 28:56
  Speaker 9: And if you, you know, listen to the family members
• 28:59
  Speaker 9: about that brother. They talk about how he was very
• 29:03
  Speaker 9: very distraught over this, how they had to he had
• 29:06
  Speaker 9: to be hospitalized.
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: The behavior.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, the teen step
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: brother was distraught. Distraught, correct, that's what they say. Okay.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Was he distraught about Anna being dead or about him
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: being a suspect.
• 29:27
  Speaker 10: That's still the question.
• 29:29
  Speaker 9: The family was very very clear that he was very
• 29:31
  Speaker 9: very upset after this happened and had to be Hospitalizing.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Spencer Aaronfeld joining us. The cruise lawyer, he's handled so
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: many cruise ship cases, typically for the complainant, the alleged victim,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: not the cruise line.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: He's got to say many. I tried to count them,
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: couldn't count them. Spencer.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: We were told that the team brother was so distraught
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: that he had to go in the hospital. Then he
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: was miraculously released from the hospital.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: He wasn't wearing a band aid, he wasn't on crutches.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Why was he in the hospital? Was that a delay tactic?
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Then we were told he was quote so upset he
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: quote couldn't talk to FBI investigators. Sounds a lot to
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: me like invoking your right to remain silent.
• 30:37
  Speaker 10: One hundred percent, Nancy.
• 30:39
  Speaker 15: And it also destruction of evidence because when he went
• 30:41
  Speaker 15: to the hospital, I'm sure that he changed his clothes.
• 30:45
  Speaker 10: What happened to his clothes.
• 30:46
  Speaker 15: I'm sure he was cleaned, and his fingers and what's
• 30:50
  Speaker 15: under his nails, and all sorts of things that would
• 30:53
  Speaker 15: have been invaluable evidence to the investigators and prosecutors in
• 30:57
  Speaker 15: this case were probably lost by that to the hospital.
• 31:01
  Speaker 15: It really interrupted the chain of custody of a lot
• 31:05
  Speaker 15: of evidence that would have been left on him, including
• 31:08
  Speaker 15: potentially of bodily fluids and things that may have been
• 31:12
  Speaker 15: on his hands, on his clothes.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: You know, Spencer Ernfield, you are my own personal chamber
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: of hers.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I hadn't even thought of that yet.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: The fact that he goes straight into a hospital setting
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and his clothes could be god knows where, Robert Crispin,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: that's important. I want to see his clothes. I want
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: to look for microscopic evidence. I'm wanna look for blood.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I'm wanna look for sperm, i wanna look for her blood.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: And yes, I want to see his underwear. For obvious reasons.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: It's probably all.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Gone, Robert.
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: It probably is, Nancy.
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: Hence the long delay before the ship got back to
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: locking down the crime scene, locking down the people their clothing,
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: not letting anyone and go anywhere, intermingle, talk to people,
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: separating everybody.
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: It's just it's a recipe for disaster.
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: Those clothes tell investigators and prosecutors and judges and juries
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: so much information. It's insane, the information that comes out
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: of just your clothes, or what comes from underneath your fingernail,
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: or what comes from actually on your body.
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: Nancy, come on, how many times have.
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: You known or heard where a fingerprint is actually pulled
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: from a body somebody else's fingerprint.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Also, because of this court hearing, we hear allegations that
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the teams have been drinking.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Is that true? We don't know yet.
• 32:44
  Speaker 10: Listen, we feel there.
• 32:45
  Speaker 18: Are some circumstances regarding that the sixteen year old and
• 32:50
  Speaker 18: the mother's judgment regarding that cruise that would affect you know,
• 32:57
  Speaker 18: obviously that her ability to care for the my child,
• 33:00
  Speaker 18: the nine year old. The sixteen year old was allowed
• 33:03
  Speaker 18: to drink, the teenagers were given their own room in
• 33:09
  Speaker 18: which to stay. Just a lot of circumstances that showed
• 33:14
  Speaker 18: that the mother in this case was not exercising appropriate
• 33:19
  Speaker 18: supervision over this child.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And of course the cruise ship is vehemently denying that
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the teens had alcohol. Of course, the family is stunned.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: They've got anna Dad stuffed under a bed. They've got
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the sixteen year old reportedly a target.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Listen.
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: He was a good student, played soccer.
• 33:41
  Speaker 19: He played soccer, very quiet young man. He had demons,
• 33:45
  Speaker 19: I think in his past and he was trying to
• 33:48
  Speaker 19: deal with those.
• 33:49
  Speaker 17: Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner are shocked Ganna's sixteen year old
• 33:52
  Speaker 17: stepbrother is being eyed as a suspect and their murder.
• 33:55
  Speaker 17: Describing them as two peas in a pod and very close.
• 33:59
  Speaker 17: She says the teen was distraught when he learned and
• 34:01
  Speaker 17: his body was found, and couldn't speak during an initial
• 34:04
  Speaker 17: interview with FBI agents. Barbara says the teen claims he
• 34:07
  Speaker 17: can't remember what happened and was hospitalized for psychiatric observation.
• 34:11
  Speaker 17: When they arrived back in Miami.
• 34:13
  Speaker 19: He was an emotional mess. He couldn't even speak. He
• 34:19
  Speaker 19: couldn't believe what had happened.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: That from our friends at ABC. Did you hear that
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: doctor Janey Lacy joining us license psychotherapist. He was an
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: emotional mess. He couldn't speak, he couldn't believe what happened.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: He was in the room when it happened. According to
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence, unless we want to believe she choke, heiled
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: herself and stuffed herself under the bunk. Tonight, no charges.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: What does that mean to you? An emotional mess, couldn't speak,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: couldn't believe what happened.
• 34:50
  Speaker 14: It means a couple of things, Nancy. In that interview
• 34:52
  Speaker 14: her talking about his demon.
• 34:54
  Speaker 13: So did the family know that he had some struggles
• 34:57
  Speaker 13: and they weren't adequately addressed?
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: And then the.
• 35:00
  Speaker 13: Critical question to me becomes, then where were the adults.
• 35:03
  Speaker 13: If they were, where are these demons? And if he's
• 35:05
  Speaker 13: emotionally distressed in these types of things, right, that can
• 35:09
  Speaker 13: be a shock, truly a shock, because we do have situations, Nancy,
• 35:13
  Speaker 13: where when people go into what we would call a
• 35:16
  Speaker 13: narcissistic type of rage, when they get some type of
• 35:19
  Speaker 13: rejection or they're not getting the things that they want,
• 35:23
  Speaker 13: that in that moment, the heightenedness of their emotional regulation
• 35:26
  Speaker 13: goes and they can have these moments where they kind
• 35:30
  Speaker 13: of black out, so to speak, and then when they
• 35:31
  Speaker 13: come to there's a gravity of what has happened to.
• 35:35
  Speaker 14: In their behaviors in the situation. So you know, it
• 35:39
  Speaker 14: also could be the consciousness of guilt.
• 35:40
  Speaker 13: When you have the consciousness of guilt, those emotions can
• 35:43
  Speaker 13: come on, come on strong. So I would probably say
• 35:45
  Speaker 13: it's somewhere in those two realms, Nancy.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Then you have the whole other can of worms with
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: the bio mom. What are we hearing from her?
• 35:55
  Speaker 12: A never want friend, they call me and get a
• 35:57
  Speaker 12: hold of me and anything.
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: When he died, I found.
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: Out through Google, Heather says.
• 36:02
  Speaker 17: On top of discovering Anna died through internet searches instead
• 36:05
  Speaker 17: of her father, captainer also told her she wasn't welcome
• 36:08
  Speaker 17: at Anna's celebration of life service. She claims Captainer threatened
• 36:12
  Speaker 17: to have her arrested were a disguise to her own
• 36:14
  Speaker 17: daughter's memorial so she could say goodbye in peace. Other
• 36:17
  Speaker 17: is not mentioned in Anna's obituary.
• 36:20
  Speaker 12: I'm going to put a wig on and wear some
• 36:22
  Speaker 12: really tall shoes because I'm four foot.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Nine, was too and inside addition, and back out to
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Robert Crispin and private investigator Crispin Special Investigations.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: This is his turf. He's joining us from Port of Miami.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Did you hear that the teen.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Step brother.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Is too distraught to speak?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: First goes into a psychiatric hold, then he comes out
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: really quickly. Guess he wasn't that ill now, he's too
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: upset to talk about what happened in the room for
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: he and Anna were alone, and she ends up stuffed
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: under a twin bed, too upset to speak. He's too
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: upset about quote what happened. He also told someone he
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: couldn't remember what happened.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: So what is that? A temporary blackout?
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: So that's not uncommon they don't remember things. Oh, I
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: feel so bad. I got to go to the hospital.
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: I can't I can't believe what happened. I don't remember Nancy.
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: Go back in the history of this kid. There's reports
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: out there that.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: He's had demons. I want to know what are his demons?
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: I want to know did those demons come to light
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: in that cabin with Anna?
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Why do I care about his feelings. I do not
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: care about his feelings. I care about her dead body, which,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: by the way, she's being cremated, so I certainly hope
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: they got all the evidence that they needed to get
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: from her body. But that said, why do I have
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: to keep hearing about him being upset?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: She's dead?
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: Oh That's what I'm upset about, not about his.
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: I understand, but that's very, very important to a prosecutor
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: in law. Enforcement, because how many times, Nancy, have we
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: had a suspect who killed someone never went to church
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: in their life.
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: They're a suspect, we can't prove.
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: It yet, and all of a sudden, now they found God.
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: They go to church every single day. That's a sign.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said what you just said, because
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Shannon Butler, investigative reporter WFTV, you heard what Chrispin just said.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: The taine has not been charged. Why has a taine
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: not been charged? That said, he's not even being held
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: as a suspect.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: He is walking free.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: He is quote under watched, underwatched by who who's watching him?
• 38:47
  Speaker 9: Well, that's the frustration from the family and frankly this
• 38:50
  Speaker 9: community along the coast there, that's the frustration, like when
• 38:55
  Speaker 9: is something going to happen, When is there going to
• 38:57
  Speaker 9: be in arrested, When are the answers going to come out?
• 39:00
  Speaker 9: So much we don't know about this case because the
• 39:02
  Speaker 9: FBI has not been transparent with their information their investigation,
• 39:07
  Speaker 9: which is not unusual for the FBI, But there's lots
• 39:11
  Speaker 9: of information that still is not out there. We can
• 39:14
  Speaker 9: only assume that they're building the case and that something
• 39:18
  Speaker 9: will happen soon, but there is no.
• 39:21
  Speaker 10: Timeline for that.
• 39:22
  Speaker 9: We don't know how long we'll be sitting here waiting,
• 39:24
  Speaker 9: and this family will have to wait for some kind
• 39:26
  Speaker 9: of answer here.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about Anna's
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: murder mechanical strangulation, please call seven five four seven zero
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: three two thousand, repeat seven five four seven zero three
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: two thousand. It could be something that you observed, It
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: could be something your child told you that Anna said.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: It could be something the teen boyd If you know
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: or think you.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Know, please help with this investigation is ongoing and tonight
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: still no charges. We remember an American Hero Officer, Alex
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Sanders Alambra PD, California, just twenty eight, killed in the
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: line of duty, leaving behind aggrieving fiance American Hero Officer
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Alec Sanders Nancy Gray signing off goodbye.