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Andy Stanley - The Power of Intuition with Holly Goddard · Andy Stanley Sermons

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed
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to help leaders go further faster. I'm Andy Stanley, and before we jump
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get out of the administrative weeds and back to growing with Balay. So today
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we're talking about what is perhaps your best friend as a leader, maybe your
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greatest asset as a leader, your intuition. And to help me discuss this
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important topic, I've invited one of my friends and co workers, Holly Goddard.
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Holly is the executive director of our largest campus. She's been in our
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organization twelve years. She's worked directly with me for four years. She is
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an extraordinary leader and she has great leadership instincts. So, Holly, thanks
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for joining us. Hey, it's great to be here. Thanks so much
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for having me. Absolutely one of the reasons I invited Holly is in a
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moment, we're going to talk about how men and women leverage their intuition differently,
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even within the context of organizational life. But before we get there,
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I need to define our term intuition. The simplest definition, or maybe the
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one that helps me the most, is this intuition is knowing without knowing why.
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It's when we are absolutely confident that we know something, we know the
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direction of something, we know a decision that needs to be made, we
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know the option we need to choose, but we're not sure why we know
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it, and we don't really understand how we know it so quickly or immediately.
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You're sure, but you can't necessarily defend why. You're sure, you're
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confident, you're adamant, but you're not sure. You could defend why.
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That's the case now in the moment, and we've all experienced this. In
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the moment, intuition is very emotional. In fact, it's more emotional than
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rational, which is deceiving because while intuition is experienced as a feeling like I'm
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absolutely sure and I feel like this is the thing to do, intuition is
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actually based on knowledge and previous experience. It's actually cognitive. And one of
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the best ways to understand this is to contrast it with instinct. Instinct is
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actually a physical response to events in the physical world, like tensing up when
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someone runs up behind you or screaming when surprised. It's triggered by events,
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and instinct can't be turned on or turned off. Intuition, on the other
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hand, as I said, is purely cognitive. It's rooted and acquired knowledge
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and experience, which makes it virtually impossible to understand or defend or explain to
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anybody else. And in the work we do, Holly and I actually have
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a great example of this. It happens within the context of our organization all
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the time. Yeah, we have a ministry called two to one Marriage Mentors,
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And so what happens is we put some mentors together with some newly engaged
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couples. Now you've got to be married like twelve years to be a mentor,
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right, and so when we ask people to come in, they say,
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no, like, you don't understand. I don't know everything about marriage.
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We don't have that much to offer. But then they sit down with
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this new engaged couple and then they realize all of a sudden, how much
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more that they actually do know. You know, they didn't know how much
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they knew until they sat down with somebody who had no clue at all,
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which is every engaged couple, right. Yeah, it's so true. And
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so things are just obvious to these mentors that just aren't obvious to this new
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couple sitting in front of them. And what has happened is that the mentors
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realize they have acquired experiences and knowledge that have given them a relationship intuition.
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Yep. And so then when a newlywed couple or an engaged couple ask a
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question the couple that's been married, you know, ten, twelve, fifteen
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years, they think, doesn't everybody know that? Yeah? And no,
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not everybody knows that, right, They didn't even know how much they knew.
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So beyond the relational context, the idea of intuition or specifically learning how
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to leverage our intuition, and specifically for leaders, trust. Our intuition is
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extraordinarily important. And one of the things that makes it so important is that
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everybody around us wants data, they want reasons, they want explanations, and
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there's obviously lots of room for that. We talk about that all the time.
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But when you, as a leader, have a hunch that's really more
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than a hunch, you're almost confident, you're absolutely confident, or you're almost
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confident this is the thing to do. You've got to learn to lean into
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that and trust that. Yeah, it's so true. Intuition is just so
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critical in leadership because it helps us make decisions when we just don't have time
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to get all the data. And the truth is, we have hundreds of
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decisions that we make in leadership, and you're never going to have enough time
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to find all the information or all the data. And intuition is that thing
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that you're talking about. It's just that gut feeling. It's knowing without knowing
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why you know. You know it comes from all of our past experiences or
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all of our past situations. Which the good news is everyone can learn to
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leverage their intuition. You're never going to have all the time, You're never
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going to have all the information, so why do you have to learn to
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trust your intuition. Well, here's what could happen in organizational life. Teams
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and departments and really whole organizations. When we foster intuitive decision making, we're
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going to make better and faster decisions. But here's the thing we have to
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be careful of. Sometimes there's just expectations from the marketplace, or the organizational
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life is complex, or even just we want to know what data says.
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We want to just be certain, and all of those things they can just
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snuff out. They can just make us push down our intuition. And we
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want to have teams and be leaders that can identify our intuition and that can
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learn to trust it. And that's why we're talking about it, because you
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know, intuitive is we just look at the data and make decisions. But
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as you were saying that, people in our audience were thinking, well,
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you're exactly right. That is true. And everybody body listening can think of
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a situation where they knew but they didn't know how they knew. And all
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of us, I will start with me, have ignored our intuition and we've
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regretted it. In fact, you and I had a situation a couple of
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months ago in a hiring We had a hiring situation and everybody was for a
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candidate and I was kind of neutral. I'm like, you know, Holly,
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I trust you, I trust the team. I don't want to override
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it, and I'm fine, you know it'll work out. And almost at
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the last minute, it's one of the reasons I wanted you in on this
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conversation. Almost at the last minute, your gut just said nope, yeah,
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I just couldn't get settled. And we're going to even talk about in
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the application today some of the things and some of the shared language around our
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organization that helped me to come to that, because it is such a value
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here in our organ Well, you kept us from making a hiring mistake.
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Then we found the a perfect candidate and we're so glad. No multiple times
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we looked at each other like, oh my goodness. But and I remember
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coming out of that thinking, I need to lean into Dolly's intuition when it
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comes to hiring, and I need to encourage Holly lean into that always be
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willing to speak up. Many of our podcast listeners have read works by Malcolm
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Gladwell and a lot of us remember his book Blink back in two thousand and
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seven, and here's what he said in two thousand and seven, all these
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years ago. He writes, our world requires that decisions be sourced and footnoted,
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and that if we say how we feel, we must also be prepared
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to elaborate on why we feel that way. And of course that's the problem.
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He goes on and says, I think that approach is a mistake.
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And if we are to learn to improve the quality of the decisions we make,
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which is what we're talking about, we need to accept the mysterious nature
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of our snap judgments. We need to know and respect the fact that it
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is possible to know without knowing, or as we said earlier, without knowing.
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Why how do you respond to it? Well, I love those handles
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of the snap judgment, because it is mysterious. And that's the thing that
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trips us up, because we'll get in our heads, we'll talk ourselves out
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of it, and sometimes you just need somebody to come along and just ask
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you a penetrating question so that you can go back to what your gut intuition
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really was. So here's an example of how that played out for me.
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Once an organizational life. When we bought our first piece of property. We
9:13
bought about eighty acres, which was way too much land for a church,
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but it was what was for sale, and we were trying to decide what
9:18
to build and how big to build. We had a little bit of debt,
9:22
and John Maxwell had just moved to Atlanta, and I found out where
9:26
he was and how to get his number, and I called John. I'd
9:30
only met him once briefly. I said, John, if I buy your
9:31
lunch, I need to pick your brain about something. So I was going
9:35
to ask John, how do we decide how big of a church or how
9:39
big of a church building to build. We had plenty of land, but
9:41
what should the first building look like? And he'd been a pastor before he
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stepped into the role of leadership guru and wrote all his wonderful books. So
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I show up at this lunch with all this information about demographics, the size
9:54
of our congregation, our budget, the school systems. I was ready for,
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you know, question after question after question, and bottom line, I
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just wanted his opinion on how big of a building we should build. So
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we sit down. We haven't even ordered yet the weight staff. It just
10:09
brought us some water, and I hadn't told him what I wanted to talk
10:13
to him about specifically. I just told him I had one question. I
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said, John, here's what I want to talk about. We own the
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property. You know, we need to design a building. How large of
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a building should we build? And he looked at me and without I don't
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even think he hesitated, he said, well, Andy, how long do
10:30
you plan to stay? I thought, what does that have to do with
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anything? Well, it has everything to do with everything, but it just
10:39
came out of the blue. How long do you plan to stay? I
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said, well, I planned to stay here forever. I planned this,
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for this to be my life's work. He said, well, build it
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as big as you possibly can. We hadn't even ordered lunch yet. That's
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a good question. Well again, what happened is I came in without experience,
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with all this data. John, with lots of experience and knowing me
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a little bit, just knew intuitively that if you're going to stay there for
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your career, then you build it as big as you possibly can. And
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we did. We built a building that was so big it made me nervous
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when I walked in the first time, and we took on more debt,
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but again that was his. That was just snap judgment intuition based on previous
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experience, a question I would have never thought to factor into that decision.
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But that's the value and the power of intuition. That's so good. I
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love the illustration and John has obviously has such good problem solving intuition, and
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it makes me think of how intuition is different between men and women. Yeah,
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and that's one of the things I wanted us to talk about. In
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fact, before you jump into that. When I presented that some of this
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content at a Leader Lab Live than an event we do for marketplace leaders,
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and you were sitting with Tim Elmore, who has been on our podcast,
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and I think Tim turned to you and said, Holly, do you think
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there's a difference between a man's intuition and a woman's intuition even within the context
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of organizational life. And later someone I think either you mentioned that to me
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or maybe he did. No, I think he did, and I thought
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I didn't even think about that. Well, then as I began to think
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about it, I thought, yeah, there's there's potentially a big difference.
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And again within the context of leadership, we should learn to leverage that.
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So go ahead with what you were saying. Well, I'm so glad he
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asked me that question, because I hadn't really even thought about it. I
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just kind of answered from my gut, like, well, of course,
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you know, women, we handle so many conflicting pieces of information at one
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time. You know, we're going to lead differently. But when he did
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ask me that, he kind of sent me down a trail to like see
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if there was data to back that up. And I found there's a lot
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of studies about women and their intuition. So here's what they say. They
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see that women actually rely on intuition more than men in leadership, and that's
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because women are a little bit more socially sensitive. They're intune with serious seriously
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yeah, yeah, more in too, with their emotions huh yep, and
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the emotions of others, which also helps in reading a room and seeing what's
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going on in a situation. And yeah, they just have a better grasp
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sometimes of the intangibles. That probably doesn't surprise listeners. Even my husband said,
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well, we knew women were more emotional, And I'm like, hey,
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women, everyone's got to be strong and healthy emotionally. But women can
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usually read the emotions of other people. But here's what else. The research
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them when teams have more women than men on a team, they usually get
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to better solutions and more creative decisions. Wow. Now I want to go
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back to something you just said, the whole idea that there's an advantage when
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there are more women in the room than men, And I think part of
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that is the male ego. In other words, the lone woman or you
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know, there's twelve men and two women in order for men sometimes to hear
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a woman's voice. It's just too difficult if there's the lone woman in the
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room and you came in your leadership role here you are in a meeting with
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me, and you are generally either the only woman or only one of two
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women, just because of the way the team is made up right now,
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So have you ever felt that, like, hey, if there were three
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or four more of me in here, my intuition, our intuition shine.
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Yeah. Well, I think the way the male brain is, you know,
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they're so problem and solution oriented. They are yes, and they love
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it to vision casting and coerce, and they spend a lot of energy.
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They're competitive competitive, So that is the vibe. And so this actually happened
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to me last week. I was in a meeting, only woman in there,
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but we're talking about issues that were all involved in and I'm at the
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opposite end of the table than the majority of the men, and I kept
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lunging forward to just interject, and I couldn't ever, you know, find
14:28
the right timing. Finally, I just said, Hey, time out.
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Would it be okay? I'm really bad at interrupting. Can I just come
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sit in the middle of you guys so I could be part of this conversation,
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which they were very great and gracious. You literally physically got up and
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moved to a different chair. Yes I did, Yes, I did.
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That's amazing. It was helpful for me, Well, it was for the
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whole conversation because they needed your input and they needed your intuition. But this
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dynamic that you have just illustrated so well for all of our podcast listeners,
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male or female leaders, that's a thing, and for the not just the
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woman's voice, but the intuition a woman brings, the unique intuition a woman
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brings every single one of us and every single leadership team. We need that
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you make better decisions, you make quicker decisions. And again, for those
15:16
of you listening who are that's an amazing illustration. I had not heard that
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before. I'm disappointed in our team, but anyway way to go. Yeah,
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I wish I had been there for that to witness it. Yeah,
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and even though we're talking about intuition, there's actually science to back up what
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you're talking about. Share some of that. I thought that was interesting.
15:37
Yeah, there's lots of studies out there. Well, here's a little bit
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of what the research says. It's about the brain chemistry, which is so
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fascinating. So women, our brains are a little bit more neurologically equipped in
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a way to lead. That's a little bit different than men. And it's
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not a better worse thing. It's just a unique strength they're wiring that women
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bring. So women have the sixth sense that does not come from logic.
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Okay, men the blood flow works. They have increased blood flow to the
16:03
visual and the coordination centers of the brain. But women have increased blood flow
16:07
to the prefrontal cortex of the brain. It governs judgment and forethought, planning,
16:11
organization, empathy, and impulse control. So those are really good skills
16:17
to bring into a room, and we know this because of how leadership has
16:21
changed over the years. The EQ side of leadership is really important. That's
16:26
the soft It may be the most important. You're right, it's pretty important.
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And women naturally are just predisposed, you know, to being strong at
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that and that can just be a differentiator in leadership. So what are you
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going to get when you bring a woman's intuition into the room. You're gonna
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get empathy, you're gonna get collaboration, you're going to get self control.
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Those are great qualities for managing a company, for mediating crisis, really just
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the day to day getting people to work towards a common goal. And it's
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so interesting because depending on the age of the person listening to this, this
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lands in two or three places. So for me, one of the things
16:57
that immediately comes to mind is how often it is that men don't respect a
17:03
woman's opinion within the context of the marketplace. That has shifted dramatically over the
17:07
last you know, twenty to thirty years. But once upon a time,
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I mean, there weren't any women in the room. There certainly weren't going
17:15
to be more women in the room in the decision making room around the decision
17:18
making table than men. And what a loss that has been. Yeah,
17:22
And the other thing that comes to mind is that, again, since we're
17:25
talking about how the brain works, oftentimes men are intimidated by strong women or
17:30
women who are not just willing to speak up but have important things to say.
17:34
And again, what a loss. And again it speaks to our own
17:37
insecurity. But the whole idea that there and you can speak to this that
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based on what you just said, there almost has to be more women in
17:45
the room than men for this to surface in a way that makes a difference.
17:48
I think that you think the ratio is important. I think so,
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and I think that's why we're seeing the trends change, which is so it's
17:56
just going to bring so much balance because you really do need both. You
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need logic and you need the soft side, and people bring men and women
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bring both. But it's just in the amount they bring it and when to
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leverage it is super important. Having said all that, Holly, my male
18:11
brain feels like I need to add but we're not discounting data, and we're
18:14
not discounting and doing our due diligence right, No, not at all.
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We need data. We need to know what is happening. We just need
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to know when to leverage data and when to leverage intuition yep, and when
18:23
and how to pay attention to it. And that brings us to the question
18:26
of how to make this actionable within the context of organizational life. So I'm
18:30
going to run through five suggestions quickly and let you respond. But before we
18:33
do that, I do want to remind our listeners about our sponsor, Blay.
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As I mentioned at the top of the broadcast, our sponsor Blay is
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offering their leadership Toolkit free to our listeners. With it, you'll learn steps
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and in no time you will be back to doing what only you can do,
19:00
which is growing your organization. So let's make this practical and actionable.
19:06
So, Holly, I'm going to read these five statements, and for those
19:07
of you in our audience, she has seen these before, so I'm not
19:11
putting her on the spot. I'm just going to hit these quick and these
19:15
are the five takeaways. So Number one, one way to make this actionable
19:18
is for those of you in leadership ask this question, is there attention that
19:22
deserves my attention? Is there attention that deserves my attention. When you're about
19:26
to make a decision or a team's about to make a decision and there's something
19:30
on the inside of you that wonders is this the right thing to do?
19:33
Pay attention to that tension. What do you have to say about it?
19:37
Yeah? I think if something bothers you, just let it bother you and
19:40
be very curious about why it's bothering you. You do not have to rush
19:42
past the decision. You need to make the right decision. So be curious
19:47
and figure out why it bothers you, and so speak up. Yeah.
19:49
Yeah, So number one, if there's attention, pay attention to that tension,
19:52
and if you need to speak up. Number two, when you catch
19:56
yourself selling yourself on an idea hit, when you find yourself internally, I
20:02
mean selling yourself on an idea hip pause, Why is that important? Yeah?
20:04
This is so important. This is what you talked about earlier, the
20:07
hiring decision that I had. You know, I, on paper, this
20:11
looked like a great person to hire, but I could not get settled in
20:15
it. And a person that reports to me walked in my office and they
20:18
said, hey, can I ask you a question? Are you trusting your
20:19
gut? And immediately I said no, I just knew I wasn't. But
20:25
the fact that we had that shared language in our organization, I mean,
20:27
she could see I was trying to sell myself on something and it's just too
20:30
important to not trust your gut. Yeah. The thing about intuition is it's
20:37
rooted in experience, but because we can't see the root, we think it's
20:41
just a feeling and it's just easy to let that go. So that's why
20:44
it's important to catch ourselves when we're selling ourselves and stop selling ourself. Back
20:48
to number one, just let it bother you. Number three, don't confuse
20:52
ambition with intuition. Don't confuse ambition with intuition. Let me explain this one
20:57
ambition and we all have ambition, and there's hopefully and there's appropriate ambition.
21:03
In fact, one of the things I say to our staff sometimes is,
21:04
hey, I want you to be appropriately ambitious. Push the envelope, get
21:08
things done. Challenge us to get things done. Ambition generally feels like an
21:14
I want. Intuition usually feels like we should. Ambition is oftentimes connected to
21:21
an appetite for something a want to, whereas intuition sometimes feels like a moral
21:26
imperative. This is something we ought to do, that we need to do,
21:29
This is the right thing for us to do. And my ambition or
21:33
our ambition has the potential to silence or talk over or outsmart our intuition because
21:38
our intuition is generally speaking, is going to be what's best for the organization.
21:42
Ambition is generally what's going to be best for me. So I think,
21:47
as leaders, because we're ambitious, differentiating between is this ambition talking or
21:52
is this really intuition talking? How did respond? No? That's so good?
21:56
Well, intuition is other centered, so you are thinking about what is
22:00
best for others, what is best for the whole. You're probably on the
22:03
right track. Oh that's a good way of saying it. Okay. So
22:07
Number one, is there at tension that deserves my attention? Number two,
22:10
when you catch yourself selling yourself, hit pause. Number three, don't confuse
22:12
ambition with intuition. Number four, discover who has intuition for what and include
22:19
them strategically. Discover on your team or in your entire organization who has intuition
22:25
for what, because again it's based on experience, and then include them strategically
22:29
respond to that, Yeah, well, actually you do this really well.
22:32
And what I like about it isn't like, oh, you have good intuition
22:34
or not. It's everyone has a good tuition. It's just where you're going
22:38
to leverage it. What are they good at? How do you deploy it
22:41
in the right way? And so I think something that's a real advantage to
22:45
all of us right now in the workplace is we've got four generations working in
22:48
the workplace at one time. I mean, you have so much lived experience
22:52
and so many different things to pull from. And so think how powerful you
22:57
could be if you could learn to leverage people's intuition correctly. Yep. And
23:00
again everybody's because their past experience, they come with a little deeper bucket or
23:06
different bucket of intuition. This is where, and we talk about this a
23:08
lot, this is where the organizational chart is not your friend. To limit
23:14
decision making to the people who are my direct reports, or to anybody to
23:18
their direct reports is almost always a mistake. And to what you said earlier,
23:22
Holly about having as many or more women sometimes in a decision making environment
23:26
than men. Again, that's important. So as you're listening and you look
23:30
around your circle, and you may be a female CEO, but you're surrounded
23:34
for the most part by men, male vice presidents or men that report to
23:37
you. Even as a female CEO or the head of a department, as
23:41
a female, you may need more women in the room to bring that level
23:47
or that arena of intuition into the decision making process. And then again,
23:52
who in the organization, regardless of their age, has the lived experience you
23:56
need for that particular decision and just ignore the organizational chart. You got to
24:00
get the right people in the room. That's so good. Yeah, okay.
24:03
Number five, make your meetings first impressions matter zones. It's kind of
24:08
a clunky statement, so I'll say it again. Make your meetings first impressions
24:12
matter zones. In other words, everybody's first impression matters. You're not going
24:18
to press them to come up with data and explanations. You just want to
24:21
know what people think immediately respond to that. Yeah, I love that.
24:23
Well, that's gonna be easy for some people in the room. You're going
24:26
to have some extroverts, some high d's, some reds. That is not
24:30
a problem for that wirery. They're going to speak up and they're often right.
24:33
They have really great gut reactions. Now you're going to have some other
24:37
people in the room, and I got to follow in this category. I'm
24:40
more naturally diplomatic. So those people have to challenge themselves to just say what
24:44
they think unfiltered. Do not spend time trying to figure out if it's going
24:48
to be palatable for the whole room. Just put it out there. It's
24:49
going to be right at the line of direct if you just make yourself say
24:53
what you're thinking. But the room needs to hear what everyone's first impression is.
24:59
And I think all all of us because we have that mix. There
25:00
are people in our circle, even direct reports, who if I don't invite
25:04
them into the conversation, they're going to sit over there and just think about
25:08
it and think about it and think about it. So from time to time,
25:11
by name, you know, i'd say, hey, so tell me
25:14
what you're thinking. Yeah, just tell me what you're thinking, Like right
25:15
now, what top of mind. I'm not going to ask you to defend
25:18
it. But this is a culture that as leaders we have to create within
25:23
the context of those meetings so people feel safe. As you said earlier,
25:27
some personalities they feel safe all the time. They just are going to tell
25:32
you other people. You're just going to have to make that create a safe
25:36
zone so they feel permissioned and not worry about having to back things up.
25:41
Well. Teams move at the speed of trust, and so the more you
25:44
can make this happen, the more Nashville it feels, the more you build
25:45
the muscle, the better your meetings are going to be. Yeah, So,
25:48
Holly, as we wrap this up, is there anything else you want
25:51
to say on the topic of intuition. Yeah, I think it's just important
25:53
to remember you have to find a balance. You know, there is a
25:56
time for intuition, and then there's a time to balance that with the day
26:00
and there's just a time where you need to figure out, hey, what
26:03
is this situation called? And that is really the leadership opportunity of which one
26:07
should I deploy right now? Intuition it should never replace the reasoning or the
26:11
analysis that it should always compliment it. So that's the goal, that's the
26:15
thing, and then I think just remember intuition. It's just one of the
26:19
many tools in our tool belt and we're all trying to learn when to use
26:22
it at the appropriate time. Absolutely well, Holly, thanks so much for
26:26
participating. I'm sure we will have you back into all of our listeners.
26:30
We want to thank you for joining us and make sure you visit the Andy
26:33
Stanley dot com website Andy Stanley dot com where you can download the Leadership Podcast
26:37
application guide that goes along with this episode. It includes a summary of the
26:41
discussion and questions for reflection for your group as well. Once again, thanks
26:47
for joining us and we will see you next time on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.