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Awkward Americans For DeSantis · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Dan, you and I haven't potted in a while. It's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: good to see you.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: My vacation, you took a couple times off.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm about to go on vacation.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I was nervous that if we did not pod it today,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: we would go six weeks without podcasting, which has not happened.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: We haven't gone three weeks without podcasting in.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Six years.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Since we started this damn thing.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to make this one count. We have
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a fun show today. Our pal Jen Psaki is going
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to be joining to preview the first Republican debate, laugh
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: about Ron DeSantis' ongoing struggle to appear human... Talk about
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: how Joe Biden and the Democrats can handle Trump's courtroom
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: campaign and play around of two takes and a fake.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: But first, the Republican candidates are preparing for next week's
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: debate with the notable exception of the frontrunner who's preparing
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: to turn himself in at the Fulton County Jail. Donald Trump.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: And the 18 co-defendants, who are part of what District
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Attorney Fannie Willis calls a criminal enterprise, have until August
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: 25th to surrender after being charged with 13 felony counts
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: for trying to overturn the election in Georgia. There's reporting
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: that suggests Trump will surrender at the jail next week,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: where he'll be fingerprinted and have a mugshot taken. But
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: before anyone gets too excited, just know that Trump will
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: be holding a press conference on Monday. at least he
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: says he'll be holding a press conference on Monday, where
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: he promises to present evidence of election fraud that is so, quote,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: irrefutable that, quote, all charges should be dropped against me
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and others. Here's Steve Doocy hyping it up on Fox
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: & Friends.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: And apparently the document focuses on voting anomalies in the
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: state of Georgia.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And Ms.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Harrington has been on X, formerly known as Twitter, and said,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: kind of given us a preview. It said Georgia has
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: been among the most corrupt elections in the country and
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: they haven't gotten any better since 2020. They've gotten worse.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Tune in Monday.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: And he said on Truth Social, Donald Trump, they never
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: went after those that rigged the election. They only went
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: after those that fought to find the riggers. And in
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: this indictment in in Georgia and all these indictments, it
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: allows him to have discovery. So his lawyer's We'll have
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: discovery and we'll find out information. And I heard this morning, Brian,
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: an attorney said, I think it was on Fox and
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Friends first, was saying the best argument he has is
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: to tell the truth. And if he finds out that
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: something did happen in the election, then he would have proof.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: And then maybe he could exonerate himself. What he has,
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: we don't know. We'll find out.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. Before we get to this year's version of the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Four Seasons Total Landscaping press conference, let's talk about... the
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: indictment itself because we haven't yet heard your reaction. We
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: obviously did the Tuesday pod late once the indictment actually dropped.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: We now have a total of four indictments and 91
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: felony charges. How'd this one hit for you? Did they
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: save the best for last? Or in the words of
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Ruth Marcus at the Washington Post, is George's case against
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Trump one case too many?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I love it when people specifically audition to be on
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Take Appreciator.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, is that a real... Someone said it.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I was like, is that a real headline? And then
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I read the piece. It's not a good piece.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I love Ruth Marcus, but not every day is a
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: great day.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: No, it happens. We all have misses. All right, what'd
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you think? What'd you think of Georgia?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: If you're asking me in terms of the political significance
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: or the legal severity or my own personal enjoyment, this one.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Hit different in terms of my personal enjoyment. Like, what
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: more could you ask for? You got all of the
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: MAGA goons we love to hate, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Rudy Giuliani, who did not get paid for committing these crimes,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: which I find to be quite amusing.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: All involved, you have cameras in the courtroom for the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: trial that we hopefully will have someday before the election.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: And because you guys talked about this, Melissa, on Monday
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: night slash Tuesday morning, But the fact that this is
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a RICO case, it allows the prosecution to tell the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: real story of what happened, not just focus on individual
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: violations of specific statutes. It is the whole story. And
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: that is enjoyable to me, for sure. How much political
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: impact it will have, that is an open question that
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: we can discuss.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: It is an open question. I mean, I think most people.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Or is it, I guess.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll see. Most people... I think probably aren't
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: familiar with the legal details of a racketeering charge. Of course,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: we're now experts after a couple of days of reading
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: some pieces. But I think the story of what Trump
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: tried to do in Georgia is pretty well known and
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: easy to understand. I had not, I don't know if
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: you have, I had not gone back and read the
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: entire transcript of Trump's call with Raffensperger since like 2020.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: That call is wild. It is not just him being,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, because the headline of the call, of course,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: is like, find me 11,000 votes, right? But when you
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: really like read the transcript or listen to the call,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: he's like, there is threats too. He's like, if you
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: don't do this, you could be committing a crime and
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that would be bad for you. If you don't do this,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the people of Georgia will be very, very angry. Bad
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: things could happen. And I mean, it's, and then he's like,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: forget the, and then Mark Meadows, his co-defendant, in this indictment,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: one of his many co-defendants, is on there being like,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: can't we just not go through the court, the legal process?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Let's get away from the courts. You can just change
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the numbers yourself. You can do this. Like, it is
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: just so fucking blatant. And I think that's like, talking about, again,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: we don't know what the political impact is going to be,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: but just in terms of what most people can understand,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I do think this one is pretty easy to grasp.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: There's also like, you know, we have orders drafted in
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the White House to seize voting machines. And then that's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: connected to some fucking yahoos in Coffee County, Georgia, who
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: just like let Trump's lawyers in and some other goons
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: to just access sensitive voting information, just breach voting systems
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: against the law. There's people like, there's like Kanye West
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: publicist threatening poll workers and saying like, I don't know.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you what this is on video. I
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: can't tell you what's going to happen to you. But
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: this is a party with a lot of loose ends
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: that it needs to tie up. I mean, this is
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: it is just it feels much more like dramatic and
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: severe than even some of the other indictments.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. Compared to obviously the indictment around the
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: hush money payments. Or the classified documents. But that indictment
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: is also chock full of delicious morsels.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: But it is– and the polling has shown this, that
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: the voters take more seriously and are more concerned about
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the insurrection-related crimes than the other two indictments. The other
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: thing that's just– I had not, like you, read the
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: transcript of the call until you told me to read
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: it the other day.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And it is– it's a reminder that Trump, when the
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: cameras are not on, talks exactly like a character in
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: a poorly written episode of Sopranos. It is mafia cosplay.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: It is what he does. It is threats.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: It is– I don't need to know. I don't need
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to know what you're doing. I just need– you just–
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you figure it out. You figure out the right people,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the right– I don't need to know. He says that
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: like a couple times.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I mean he– Even though he does talk like someone
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: who thinks someone in the room might be wearing a
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: wire at all times. I'm giving you the crime orders,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: but then I'm also going to say a few things
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: that my defense lawyer can hang on to try to
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: keep me out of jail. It's not like he's particularly
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: careful in what he says in public, but there really
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: is a difference when he thinks the press is not
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: in the room.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I think the other notable part of the Georgia indictment
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: is– that all of these co-defendants are going to have
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: some real trouble here. Like there is still, you know,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: if Trump is able to delay this and if Trump
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: was able to win the election, you know, there's a
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: lot of legal analysts think that, you know, even though
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: it's a state prosecution and not a federal, the Supreme
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Court would, you know, side with Donald Trump and saying
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: he's a sitting president, he can't be charged here, right?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: But he can't pardon these 18 co-defendants. They're pretty fucked.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: And a lot of them are either going to have
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: to flip on Trump or serve time. And that's Rudy,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: that's Jenna Ellis, all the people that you mentioned. And
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: that's different than some of these other indictments.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: And a bunch of these lower level people we never
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: heard of, the former Republican Party chair of Georgia and
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: these other folks who may see less of a future
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: in themselves as a MAGA media martyr than the Jenna
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Ellis's and Sidney Powell's of the world.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: So Fannie Willis wants to try these goons on March 4th,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: which is the day before Super Tuesday and a week
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: before Georgia's primary. It does seem ambitiously optimistic. Trump is,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: of course, going to try to delay. Mark Meadows has
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: already filed a motion to move the case from state
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: court to federal court. Trump will likely try to do
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the same. How are you feeling about the chances we'll
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: get this one in before the election?
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I was feeling good. And then I googled, how long
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: does a RICO case take? And it seems like it
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: takes a long time. The Other ongoing high-profile RICO case
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: in Fulton County, Georgia is the YSL case. That case
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: has gone on for well over a year. Jury selection
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: alone took many months.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: It's still happening. They still haven't been seated. The case
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: started in May of last year. They've been doing jury
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: selection since January.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: And if you think it's hard to get a a
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: jury of people who don't, who don't have an opinion
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: on young thug, wait till you get to try to
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: ask about Donald Trump.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: What about old thug?
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Old thug. Oh man, that's something.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: The other, there's another racketeering case. Fonny Willis brought, uh,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: about teachers in Georgia cheating on tests. Um, that took
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: two years. So, I mean, now look, there's circumstances are different.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: She obviously knows what the calendar is. And so she's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: probably prepared for this, but, It is, you know, it's
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: going to be tricky. And it's also tricky to get, like,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: 19 defendants all coordinated together because they could all be,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: you know, filing motions to delay. Okay, so this is
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the part where we talk about how all the previous
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: indictments haven't changed people's opinion of Trump in any significant way,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: especially Republican voters. Any reason to think this indictment will
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: be different? No.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Just... I think we have to level set our expectations here.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: There is not some Aaron Sorkin moment here where a
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: large swath of the public or the Republican electorate just
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: wakes up and says, you know what? Four crimes is
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: too many. Or I was with him for the first
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: 81 felony charges, but once he got over 90, I'm out.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't work that way. And there's an ABC
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Ipsos poll out this morning that charts the percentage of
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: people who think Trump should be charged with a crime
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: after every indictment. So they did one after the first, second, third, fourth.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And it has stayed– I'd like to say it stays steady.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: It actually has gone down. It was 54% of people
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: thought that after the first one and it's down to
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: 50% now. But that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. That's
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: an important thing is that whatever in a period of
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: high polarization, the changes are going to happen on the margins.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And so there are specific groups of people we ought
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: to look at to see how this impacts them. And
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: also it's just I think we have to have some
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: humility about these things, which is charges covered in the
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: news is one thing. When Donald Trump is actually sitting
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: at a defendant table for weeks at a time or
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: he gets a guilty verdict or any of those things
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: can have impacts in all kinds of ways. Getting off
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: in one of these trials can have a massively negative
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: impact for the political direction we want to go. And
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: so– it can still have an impact. It's just, we're not,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: there's not a damn breaking here where the whole political
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: electorate shifts because of how one of these cases go.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: It's my best guess.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I think the polling right now is very noisy and,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: you know, also polling is a snapshot in time and
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: it's usually a snapshot of like what has happened a
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. So I think it's going to
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: take some time for all the polling to sort itself out. And,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you know, like you mentioned the Ipsos poll, there was
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a Quinnipiac poll out yesterday that said like, 54% think
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Trump should be prosecuted for trying to overturn 2020, including
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: 57% of independents, 12% of Republicans. It also said nearly
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: 7 in 10 Americans think that if a person is
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: convicted of a felony, they should not be eligible to
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: run for president of the United States, including 58% of Republicans.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Of course, Trump's name wasn't in the question, right? So
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: probably those numbers would change if it was. But I
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: do think, to your point, I think the only exception here,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: and it's as you said, all of these changes are
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: going to be on the margins. Like if you somehow,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: if Fannie Willis can get this case going and we
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: know that there's going to be cameras in the courtroom
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and people are seeing Trump sitting in a courtroom for
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: weeks on end, even in, you know, February, March, and
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: somehow he's convicted, you could see it even in the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Republican primary. That's the only possibility that you could see
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it on the margin, right? We keep talking about the
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: 25% of Republican voters who say like they're not going
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to vote for Trump. They're like 37% MAGA base that's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: all in. Those middle persuadable voters, if Trump is convicted
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in Georgia of a felony and he's been in a courtroom,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: maybe some of them, maybe some of the college educated
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: ones are like, eh, I'll give whoever a shot, you know?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: But I still think it's unlikely, but that is the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: only scenario I could imagine it changing the primary.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: The timing is very challenging here because- you would really
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: need the Jack Smith case to start on its original
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: early January proposed timeline to have any impact on the primary.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Given how Republicans allocate delegates in their primary, by the
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: time you get to March 4th, the most ideal day
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: upon which this trial could possibly start, it's likely over
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: or pretty darn close to over. So we're not in
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: a war. I don't think we're living in a world
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: where there was a Georgia verdict before the A candidate,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: most likely Donald Trump, as we sit here today, has
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: amassed the necessary delegates to be the nominee.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Now, just to get a little into where some of
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the changes can happen, probably in ways that matter more
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: in the general election, the primary, is in the New
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: York Times Siena poll, there's currently, I think it's about
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: 10% of voters, of Trump voters, think he committed a crime.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So they will tell a pollster they think Trump committed
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: a crime. But then they will say, I am also
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: voting for Trump. There are 17% of voters who think
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Trump committed a crime and thinks that his actions endanger democracy,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: and they're also voting for Trump. Trump's vote number in
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: that poll and in almost all the polls exceeds his
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: approval rating by five to seven points, depending on the poll.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Those people are all potentially gettable in this one. I
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: do think we make the political conversation a little overly
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: narrow here. We focus only on what is technically illegal.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: There is just this world in which the full, just
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the whole thing, the chaos, the corruption, the criminality is
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: just too much for them. And so you could think, man,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's a crime. I think that Biden's
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: weaponizing the government. All these people are corrupt political folks,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: but that's a lot, right? Do we really need this?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: How is this going to help me? And so there
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: is Something in that world where it has an effect
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: that goes beyond sort of the narrow question of, did
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: he commit a crime?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When we're talking about the general election, if you
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: really start squinting at all the polling, you can start
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to see how this could really weigh on Trump. There
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: was an AP poll this week that has 64% of
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Americans saying they would definitely or probably not support Trump
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: in general. Now, that's combining definitely and probably, but that's
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: still a pretty big number. People who say they won't
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: vote for Trump. Of course, it's only one poll. It's interesting, too,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: in the Q poll, I noticed they asked people the
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: most important issues to them. And obviously, the economy was
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: at 32%. But democracy was right behind at 28% and
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: preserving democracy.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: That's a fake question.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: The problem with that question is both sides think democracy
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: is at risk. They just think it for different reasons.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Although I think that I haven't seen it. that
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: high in a list for a while.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because the– I haven't looked at the time
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: series on the Q poll, but the way I've seen
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: this in some other polls is the number has crept
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: up as Trump is being prosecuted for more things because
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the Democratic number is Trump is a threat to democracy
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: and should be prosecuted. The Republican view about democracy is
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: democracy is at risk because Donald Trump is being prosecuted.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: And so you get you a number that is high.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You would need a larger sample size, I think, to
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: understand if there's a group of people in the middle
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: who are not partisan Ds, but partisan Rs who have
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: an increased concern about democracy. But that's a very trickily
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: worded question in a.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Lot of polls, I think. I mean, I do think
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: we can also be complicating the simple here. We are
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: heading into a presidential election where one of the major
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: candidates will be in court for Like a good amount
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: of the beginning of the campaign, maybe even deep into
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the campaign.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: All of the campaign.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Certainly the spring of 2024, he's going to be in court.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And because there's going to be inevitable delays, you could
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: easily see it stretching into the summer of 2024 and
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the fall of 2024. And like, what is that? I mean,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: we have no idea. We have no idea what impact
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: that is going to have, because there are we are
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: paying close attention to this right now. If you're listening
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: to this, you're paying close attention. But there are so
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: many people in this country who just are not tuning
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: into politics right now. And when they tune in in
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a presidential election year and one of the two major
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: candidates is sitting in a courtroom being tried for one
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: of his 91 felony counts, who knows? Who knows? Maybe
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: it won't matter. Maybe it won't matter. But, you know,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: common sense.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: That is an important point is that most people and
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: the people who are primarily going to decide, really not
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: just the general election, but also the primary are not
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: dialed into the news yet. They're not paying attention to this.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: There was a Farley Dickinson University poll from last week
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: where they ran a test and they asked people if
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: they were open to supporting someone other than Trump. And
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: then they reminded them about the indictments and then re-asked
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: the question. And the number of Republicans open to supporting
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: someone other than Trump went up by 11 points after that.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: They also pointed out that that was not enough to win.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: But it was....
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: But it does show that... We're taking small victories here.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. It does show that the biggest... And a reminder
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: of the biggest cast in politics is not between Republicans
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: and Democrats, it's between the politically engaged and the people
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: who pay less attention to politics.
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about what Trump's calling his large, complex, detailed,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: but irrefutable report that will prove once and for all
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that the 2020 election was rigged for Joe Biden. So
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: he's planning this press conference... And he's going to finally
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: release the evidence that Georgia was rigged. But before we
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: recorded this, I saw ABC News report that his legal
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: advisors are telling him it might not be a good idea.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And now there's serious doubt about whether he'll hold the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: press conference because they're a little worried. I mean, that
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: was like an instinct of mine when I heard this news. Like,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: isn't he just making Fannie Willis and Jack Smith's jobs
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: easier by going out there and continuing to lie about
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: like the election being rigged?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I don't want to pretend to be a lawyer, but
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: just as a point of fact, even if he were,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: and he is not going to be, even if he
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: were to prove some election irregularities, that would not make
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the crimes go away.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess he's going to, like, I guess
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: he's just trying to be consistent here and he's going
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: to go with the insanity defense that he, genuinely believes
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: all this shit, all the kooky conspiracies, right? He just,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: he just, he's in the Hugo Chavez change in the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: voting machines, the dominion stuff, the laser, all of it's real.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: And once again, despite all the press coverage to the contrary,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: it is not true that if Donald Trump can prove,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: he believed the election was stolen, that he was allowed
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to commit a bunch of crimes. If you truly believed
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: that your neighbor stole your lawnmower, You are not allowed
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: to break into their house and try to steal it back. Like,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you can't do that.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: But when you look at their defense, it's like, what
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: other options do they have? They're basically saying, also, my
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: lawyers told me it was okay to steal the lawnmower,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and I didn't know. I thought the lawnmower, I didn't
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: think it was the neighbor's. I thought it was mine.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I thought it was mine, and my lawyers told me
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it was mine, so I took the lawnmower. This is
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: not a good defense, but I'm saying I actually don't
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: know what other defense there is.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I think their legal defense is going to be their
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: political defense, which is these are a bunch of politicized
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: investigations trying to target someone for political reasons.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: My work in the electorate is not going to work.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It's only going to work on one person. Yeah, that's right.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: The jury is the electorate. We have said this before. Okay,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: so the other thing about this, I just want to,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: before we get to the press conference, if it happens, like,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of course he's doing the press conference next week. And
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the debate when Jen gets here. But, like,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: just imagine all these fucking bozos who are preparing for
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the debate, and then Donald Trump on Monday or Tuesday
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: or whenever he decides to do this, just... wall to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: wall coverage of Donald Trump doing this bullshit press conference.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And then he forces everyone to talk about him and
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: his press conference and his like fake evidence at the debate.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: It's perfect. I wouldn't also be surprised by the way,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: if Donald Trump decides to turn himself in at the
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: jail on the day of the, on the day of
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the debate. I mean, that that's, of course that's coming, right? Yeah.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: The day over the day after either way, just step
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: on everyone's if everyone's news. The press conference is great.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I really feel like we're at an unstoppable force and
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: an immovable object because Donald Trump would never promise something
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: and then not deliver. But he would also never not
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: listen to his attorneys.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: So where is this going to go?
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Not listening to his attorneys has gotten him here with
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: 91 felony charges, or I guess listening to some of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: them who are also his now co-defendants. All right. So
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: The small handful of Republicans not named in the Georgia
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: indictment are not pleased that Trump is quadrupling down on
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: his election fraud claims. Dave Carney is a longtime Republican strategist.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: He talked to Politico and he said it's a terrible
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: position to be in for anyone trying to win 2024
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: in terms of Republicans. He said, if our party is
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: talking about 2020, we're going to lose. Do you agree?
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Going to lose is a strong statement, but there is
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: ample evidence from 2022 that re-litigating 2020 is a huge
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: problem for Republicans. We've mentioned this before, but there's a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Stanford Business School study which showed that the candidates who
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: ran on a platform of the big lie or were
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: prominent election deniers did nearly three points worse than other Republicans.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: And that happened in several key states. It's probably the reason,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: almost certainly the reason Democrats still have the Senate and
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: they came so close in the House.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, again, there's like a significant delta between Republican voters
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: who like Donald Trump and Republican voters who think that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump lost the election. You know, most Republicans buy
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: his bullshit on this. But by Trump talking only about
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: 2020 or making that his central message, he's sort of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: cleaving his own base here because there are enough Republicans
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: who do believe that that Donald Trump lost, that just
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: by running on relitigating 2020, it's a tough message for
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a general electorate. Good for the primary. Again, good for
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the primary, but it's, or maybe good for the primary,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: debatable if it's good for the primary, but it's like,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: here's the thing is, he can get the whole base
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: together by saying like, oh, we should all fight Joe Biden, right?
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Like if it's, you know, Biden should lose in 2024,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: that's going to be more effective for him than Biden
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: lost in 2020.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Would you believe me if I told you that the
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: percentage of Republicans who think the 2020 election was illegitimate
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: is 20 points larger than Donald Trump's vote margin in
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the primary right now?
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: So what is it now?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: It's 70% of people who think, 70% of Republicans, it's
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: been pretty consistent for going on two and a half
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: years now, think the election was illegitimate in some way.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And Trump's getting something like 52% or something in the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: polling average.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: But even that, it's like that's 30% of Republicans that
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: in a general election- don't think that the election was
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: stolen and that's not enough to win.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: But it's also a little bit of a tricky question
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: because saying the election was stolen is a part of
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: people's Republican identity. That does not mean they think that
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: should be on the first 17 pages of the Republican
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: platform or that it should be the focus or that's
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: what they want to talk about. It's just how do
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: you distinguish yourself from a bunch of deep state liberal cucks?
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You say the election was stolen, right? Even if you
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: truly believe it or not.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: It's just, yeah, I mean, I'm sure all these Republican
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: consultants are just looking at all the data and it's like,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: case is a lot easier if we're just like, hey,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden should lose. If you don't like Joe Biden,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: here's Donald Trump. He's the best way to beat Joe Biden.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: He's our only way to beat Joe Biden. It's a
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: much easier message. But Donald Trump's going to be out
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: there being like, no, no, no, let's talk about 2020. Great, fine.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: All right, before we bring on Jen, two quick housekeeping notes.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Vote Save America is turning five. And thanks to all
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: of you, Over the last five years, VSA has raised
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: more than $ 55 million and mobilized 500,000 voters and volunteers
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: to support progressive causes. Needless to say, we are very
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: proud of VSA, but none of it would be possible
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: if you all didn't keep showing up the way you have.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: If you want to help VSA with a very big
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and terrifying 2024, head over to votesaveamerica.com now. Also, on
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the occasion of Trump's fourth indictment, a reminder... that you're
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: going to want to grab our totally impartial potential juror
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: T-shirt to signal that you are totally unbiased and ready
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to serve in New York, D.C., Florida, or Georgia. Pick
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a state. Hillary Clinton has one of these T-shirts. A
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: little disappointed she didn't wear it during her interview with
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow the night of the Georgia indictments, but that's okay.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it was just in the wash. But you
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: can get your T-shirt. It's cricket.com slash store. So go
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: get one now. Okay, when we come back, Jen Psaki
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: will be joining us to talk more about the Georgia indictment,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: the first Republican debate, and how Joe Biden and the
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Democrats should handle the trials of Donald Trump. We're back
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and we're joined by our former colleague and good pal
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Jen Psaki, who's now the host of Inside with Jen
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Psaki on MSNBC. Hey, Jen.
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: Hi, how are you guys?
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Good. Thanks for doing this. We have a lot to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: talk about. We have a lot to talk about.
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: I know. My favorite governor, Ron DeSantis.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. We'll get to him. We'll get to him.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure you've been on MSNBC for like 100
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: hours this week talking about the latest and probably final
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Trump indictment. From a political standpoint, do you see anything
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: different or noteworthy about the Georgia case? How do you
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: think the average voter is processing all these indictments right now?
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I do think that it's different because
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: it kind of goes back to Trump's obsession with Georgia
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: and the fact that he was the first person to
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: lose Georgia since George H.W.
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: Bush, George W. I mean, decades.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: So he was obsessed with it. It's also a state
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: that he, then Democrats won two Senate seats in.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: So it's kind of, I mean, it's like a little
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: bit of a, it's been beating him for a while,
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: defeating him for a while. But then you also look
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: at some of the Republicans in the state, like Brian
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: Kemp and Brad Raffensperger, they've also been pushing back on
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: Trump too. They've not exactly been aligning themselves with him
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: and they don't seem to be coming to his defense
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: or even be willing to help him in.
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: His efforts at this point in time. So that's kind
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: of significant. And then, of course, there's the piece.
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: And I don't know if this is the politics, although
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: I guess it's like significant on its own that because
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: it's a state case.
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, he can't pardon himself.
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 30:35
  Speaker 6: The governor can't even pardon him. Not that Brian Kemp
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: wants to.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: And you can't even seek a pardon until five years
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: after you've served your time.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: So.
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: There do feel like a lot of differences.
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: But to me, the politics of it and like Republican officials,
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: people who are we've never even heard of until now,
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: who seem like big targets to flip.
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: They're like, I didn't want to be involved in this.
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: And now I'm involved in this.
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: Plus the fact that it's a state that he needs
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: to win in order to win the presidency.
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: So it does feel a little different politically to me.
• 31:04
  Speaker 6: Maybe not yet. It feels like it will be.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe Misty Hampton and Kanye's former publicist will take him down.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: which is what we all would have guessed.
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: I wasn't intending to be a part of this whole journey. Exactly.
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: But here we are.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: So I imagine the indictments will certainly be a topic
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: at the first Republican presidential debate in Milwaukee next Wednesday.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Whether or not Trump actually shows up, we still don't know.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' Super PAC, which we are going to talk
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: about in a second, has released this ad sort of
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: taunting Trump for not showing up at the debate. Let's listen.
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: I hear he's afraid to debate.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Is that true?
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: I hear he's afraid to debate.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: He's too cowardly to even show up and debate.
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: You've suggested you may skip the early Republican primary debates.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Why would I let these people take shots at me?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: We can't afford a nominee who is too weak to debate.
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: These debates, they're just brutal.
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: We need a nominee with stamina, a nominee who's sharp.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Republicans deserve a candidate who earns our vote.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: But I probably won't bother doing the debate.
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: Not one who demands it.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: What happened to Donald Trump? Do either of you think
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: there are any risks for Trump if he skips this thing?
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: Dan?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: No. I said that, I talked to him about this, Alyssa,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: last week. He'd be a moron for debating.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Well, here are his choices. Stand on stage with a
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: bunch of people who are not within 20 to 30
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: points of in the polls and have them attack him relentlessly, or...
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: stay home, order in some McDonald's and watch them all
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: attack Ron DeSantis, the guy closest to him in the polls.
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: I mean, or the third choice, which is turn himself.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: In, which he thinks is maybe politically palatable.
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: I know this is like the crazy world we're living in.
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: Can we just have a moment on this?
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: The whole debate between Republican strategists, many of whom I'm background,
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: seems to be not whether or not all of these
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: indictments are bad for him, but whether it's better for
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: him politically if he turns himself in the day of
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: the debate, or the day after the debate, right? So
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: that's like the debate that they are having among themselves
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: at this point.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of wonder, I agree with you
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: guys that the first one, he can definitely skip. He's
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: going to skip the second one because he has a
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: problem with the people associated with the Ronald Reagan library.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: But like, how long can he get? Does he have
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to debate at some point? Or could he like go
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: through the whole primary season without debating?
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: If he continues leading by this much, Why would he debate?
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: I mean, also, I mean, these people are going to
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: have to still keep qualifying. They're going to have to
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: still have money to be in the race.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: Is he going to get up on the.
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: Debate stage with Vivek Ramaswamy and Nikki Haley and Mike?
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: I don't even know who's going to be in the
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: next rounds of this. It seems like kind of why
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: would he to Dan's point, unless a dynamic changes massively.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: There is no way in which being in the same
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: room with Doug Burgum is going to elevate your campaign.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: That's my guy.
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: Doug is nothing personal. If you're listening.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: My second favorite Doug.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: You and Tommy and Lovett talked about this on Monday
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: on the first version of the podcast before the indictment
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: came about whether Trump would pay any price for not
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: flipping pork at the campaign in Iowa and why he
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't do it. But what Trump understands... And maybe the
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: only thing he understands is power dynamics. And he knows
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: there's a huge stature gap between Trump, a former president
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: who's leading in the polls and is famous and adored
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: by the Republicans, and a bunch of these guys trying
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: to beat Trump. And he very carefully avoids doing the
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: parts of campaigns that are very minimizing. Staying on a
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: soapbox in the Iowa State Fair and being yelled at.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Performatively eating fried food and all these other things. So
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the debate is the core of that. Once you stand
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: on stage with those people, you can be seen as equal.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And I think he could go the, if long as
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: the dynamic, as Jen said, the dynamics are the same,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: he can go the whole way. He can get through Iowa,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: New Hampshire without debating. There's risk in that strategy, but
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: he could pull it off.
• 35:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I could plan his entire Wednesday. He, he goes and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he turns himself in at the Fulton County jail and Uh, he,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you know, he, he gets fingerprinted mugshot. He smiles in
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the mugshot and then he leaves and he goes, he
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: does a big rally in Atlanta or like Cobb County
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Coffee County.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Where's Misty?
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: Come on up.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Misty.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: And like, who's going to, and then, you know, they
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: got the debate. Fox is doing the debate and then
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: everyone else covers them at the rally. I honestly, it's.
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: Which look, Debates, especially at this stage, as we all know,
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: are ultimately about the earned media coverage or about your moment.
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: He doesn't necessarily really need it anyway, but he gets
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: it by a lot more if he does something like
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: that than if he stands on the debate stage and
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: they all attack him. And even if it's not successful,
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: it's about the attack.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of the stage, we have to talk about
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: this incredible New York Times story about the advice that
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' Super PAC is giving him for the first debate.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: I'm really hopeful that you're going to quote exactly from
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: some of the lines suggested because it really brings it
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: to life when you do that.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Jen, I am going to quote some, but I have
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: so many written down between the New York Times story
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: and between the Washington Post story that is headlined, Awkward
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Americans see themselves in Ron DeSantis. Such a masterful piece
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: by Ben Terrace.
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: The Awkward American Caucus.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: It's a critical demographic. It's like the soccer moms of 2024.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: All right. So super PACs aren't supposed to privately coordinate
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: with campaigns. So sometimes they make their advice public. Four
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: campaigns where they communicate via the public because that's legal.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: But this is unusual because Ron DeSantis' super PAC dumped
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: hundreds of pages of memos and polling on the website
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of Jeff Rowe's firm. Jeff Rowe is running the super PAC.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: And here's what it says about the debate. There are
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: four basic must-dos for GRD, who's Governor Ron DeSantis, in
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: these memos. One, attack Joe Biden and the media three
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to five times. Two, State GRD's positive vision two to
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: three times. Three, hammer Vivek Ramaswamy in a response. And four,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: defend Donald Trump in absentia in response to a Chris
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Christie attack. Jen, what do you think? Good advice? Good
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: advice for Ron?
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. Let me
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: start with a very small thing.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: He like G.R.D. Did we ever call him P.B.O. President Obama?
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: It's very weird. Very weird to do.
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: I know who it was for a second.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Same.
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: The Vivek Ramaswamy thing that should stick out to people
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: for how far he has fallen.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Right. Yes.
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: Vivek Ramaswamy, I guess, is having a moment or a
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: surge of some sort.
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: But Ron DeSantis was like. the guy who was going
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: to take out Donald Trump six months ago, right?
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: Or a little over six months ago. Now his objective
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: is to take out Vivek Ramaswamy. So that's two. The
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: third thing, and this is where the line is so powerful,
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: is the line that they suggest to him is something
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: about how Donald Trump is so weak. He's not here.
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: We shouldn't be aligning ourselves. And this is a reference
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: to Chris Christie. I'm paraphrasing here. With somebody who's campaigning
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: for a contract with MSNBC. That's part of the line, right?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: But I mean, no one thinks people can think all
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: sorts of things about Donald Trump. No one in the
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: Republican electorate thinks he is weak. He is ahead by
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: 20 to 30 points. So it's just such an odd
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: attack in my view. But yes, there's a lot to
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: unpack there.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also like it's like Trump isn't here. So
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: let's just leave him alone. Oh, let's leave him alone.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: I forgot that part. That's why the language is so good.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: He's too weak to defend himself, but let's leave him alone, guys.
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: He's like a gentle puppy who needs to be just
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: treated with care and tenderness.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Dan, what do you think about this?
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Look, I think you guys are being overly harsh. When
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: has playing for second not been a great strategy? The
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: entire thing about attacking Vivek Ramaswamy is according to the
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: internal New Hampshire polling data they posted on their chief
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: consultant's website.
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Ramaswamy is coming within shouting distance of DeSantis as the
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: second place. So you're going to try to take them out.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: This is the exact same strategy that all these yahoos
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: used in 2016. We went into this campaign where Ron
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: DeSantis was pitching himself as Donald Trump without the baggage. Well,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: we've discovered he's actually Jeb Bush with lots of baggage.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Because that's the same, that's exactly, he's running the Bush campaign,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: but with less charisma. And that's saying a lot.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Can I just say this whole thing? This is the
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Like, the fact that
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: the Super PAC dumped all this stuff out on the website,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: just hundreds and hundreds of pages, they have damaged him,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis, so badly. Because now imagine that Ron DeSantis
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: says anything close to any of the stuff they told
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: him to say. Chris Christie, Vivek Ramaswamy, anyone else now
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: has like a ready-made response to anything. Did someone tell
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: you to say that? Yeah. Oh, well, we all read
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the story in the New York Times about how your
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: super PAC ordered you to say this or like ordered
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: you to be tough, ordered you to be likable because
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: one of the instructions is tell a tell a story
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: about your family, and then it just comes. Show emotion,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: show emotion.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: I feel like I'm just gonna give a slight counter point.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Sure, let's do it.
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: Debate, I love it.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: Okay, so Ron DeSantis, I don't think anyone thinks he's
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: going to light the world on fire with his charisma
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: at this debate, right?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Agreed.
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: I think that's safe, right?
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: The most comprehensive coverage he may get is of this
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: memo and his strategy. Meaning, like, he might be not
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: a memorable figure at this debate.
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: That's very possible.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: And the only memorable part might be Nikki Haley and
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: others taking a bite out of him, which they might
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: do regardless.
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: So I'm not saying.
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: I think we've all picked apart the absurdity of a
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: lot of these strategic lines, but maybe the tactic of
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: this is like, why the heck not?
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's so stupid, he's smart.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: Well, the other thing is, I also wonder the dynamics.
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: We don't know this, but let's just go down.
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: A rabbit hole here.
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: The dynamics of his super PAC and whether they don't
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: have confidence in the strategy of the campaign. Are they
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: actually trying to send him a message or what's the
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: strategy here?
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: Are they just trying to get this, dump this out?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: So Jen, that was my first thought when I read this.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: When I read the headline, my first thought was like,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: is this just like a head fake? But then when
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: you read the story, which Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: and Shane Goldmacher wrote, they have this line in there
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: that the, the, so it was on the website. It
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: was brought to the New York times attention, not by
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: anyone connected with the DeSantis campaign.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: And then once they, it was discovered, if you go
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: to the website now, there's still some, there's still a
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: bunch of like oppo on all the other candidates that's
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: up there and the Iowa and New Hampshire polling. But
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: they took down the, they took down the actual strategy
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: memo and they took down some other stuff. So they,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: It does feel like they got caught, it became public,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: and then they took some stuff down because it's embarrassing.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: It's so embarrassing.
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: But meaning maybe they were trying to tell them, here's
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: what to do because you guys clearly don't know what
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: to do.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: That is definitely true that they are saying that. And
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: DeSantis has, while campaigns have been relying more on super
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: PACs over the years since in the last decade, since 2012,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: DeSantis is doing something unprecedented. DeSantis' David Axelrod works for
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: the- The Super PAC. Super PAC. So his chief political advisor,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: the big guy he hired beating out all the other yahoos,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: including Donald Trump, to get Jeff Roe to work on
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: his campaign, is legally prohibited from speaking to DeSantis. Now,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: the reason why I don't think that this was an
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: intentional move on their part, which, and I have swum
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: in these waters before, but the way this normally works,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: there are two ways that Super PACs and campaigns communicate
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: with each other. One is through the press. And the
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: super PAC will know, because someone will have told them,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: that if so-and-so is on the record, that is someone
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: who is telling you what you want to know. So
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: if it was like in our campaign, if it was
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: David Plouffe, there were no super PACs back then, but
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: the super PAC would know that he is telling you
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what the strategy actually is. And anyone else is given
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: talking points. And so you do it through interviews, et cetera.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: The other way, and the much sketchier way, and the
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: way most of these people do it, What will happen
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: is the campaign, it usually goes the other way. The
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: campaign will post a document on a website with a
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: secret URL that no one else could find, but somehow
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: the super PAC magically stumbles upon it. And instead of
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: doing that, and I think this was an actual mistake
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: from the Axiom Strategies people, which is the Jeff Rose firm,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: they put it in the wrong place.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Because it's on their latest news stuff. So I think
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: they just miscoded where they put it.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: And then someone found it, probably someone who works for
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: one of these other candidates, probably not Trump, and gave
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: it to The Times. Because I think there is a
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: very embarrassed intern or web administrator at Axiom Strategies today
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: who made this mistake. Because you wouldn't do it this way.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: They would just do it because they need to raise money.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: So if they wanted to send a full message, Jeff
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Rowe would just do an interview with Puck or something
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and give out all of the strategy.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: I like that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: I feel bad for this web administrator, but that is
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: a very complex and intriguing theory.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Can I just say, there's a lot of fawning profiles
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: of Jeff Rowe in various places. I don't think his
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: advice is worth that much. So he's identified that Vivek
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Ramaswamy is gaining on DeSantis and all these polls and
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: that you've got to take down Ramaswamy. And Chris Christie.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: And Chris Christie. And so his suggestion for hitting... Ramaswamy
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: during the debate is he's got he's got you could
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: either call him fake Vivek or Vivek the fake. That's it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: That's what that's the advice. That's what you're paying for
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: for Jeff Rowe right there. That advice. He's got this
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: really long winding thing about Donald Trump that Donald Trump
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: was once a breath of fresh air that told the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: elite where to shove it and blah, blah, blah. But
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: now there's just so many distractions that he's facing. I
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: don't think he can he can lead the country forward.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: And and Ron DeSantis is the only candidate who can
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: keep the Trump movement going. Actually, there's someone else who
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: can keep the Trump movement going who's running. Donald Trump.
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: It's like, why can't, like, if he really wanted to
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: attack Donald Trump, the truth is he could just be like,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I like Donald Trump. I think Donald Trump is a
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: great president. Donald Trump cannot win. He cannot win an election,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and here's why. Like, you know, you just, even the
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: advice they give is dumb. Yeah.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe Jeff Rowe is smart. Maybe he's not. He,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: his prior to 2021, his claim to fame in Republican
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: politics was running Ted Cruz's campaign and losing to Donald Trump.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: So congrats on beating Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. Let's
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: put you in the consultant hall of fame. Then he
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: was the chief consultant for Glenn Youngkin. And that's what
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: made him a star that made it. So every Republican
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: would want, we have seen this a thousand times where
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: one person wins one expected race, the media and the
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: party establishment anoint them as the next genius. Then they
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: shit the bed the next time out. And that's kind
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: of what Jeff Rose is doing. And I think the
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: reason is, and maybe he's smart, but his bigger problem
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: is not whether he's smart or not, it's that he's greedy.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Because the reason he's at the super PAC is because
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: that's where the money is.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you guys think that whatever DeSantis decides to
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: do with the debate, he will at least reach those
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: core voters that are his base, who are the awkward
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Americans that we read about in the Washington Post story? Jen,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: did you read that story? I mean.
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: He might reach the awkward Americans if he's authentic to himself.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: So we'll see if he achieves that in the debate.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Ben Terrace goes and interviews awkward Americans who see themselves
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: in Ron DeSantis. And some of the quotes in the
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: story are truly amazing. One woman says, like Ron DeSantis,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I also spend every day trying to act like a human.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: He is referred to by different people in the piece
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: as a robot put together from scrapped spare parts from
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Disney's The Hall of Presidents, an extraterrestrial in a skin
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: suit trying to learn to be human.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: These are quotes from people. This is not Ben Terrace's writing,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: to be clear.
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: Ben Terrace is an amazing writer.
• 48:00
  Speaker 7: Yes, yes.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: And the best part is even the awkward Americans who
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: see themselves in Ron DeSantis, then they turn around and
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: say they don't want to vote for Ron DeSantis because
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: He's an awkward person, and so they relate on that level,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: but they hate his politics. And so one of the
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: awkward people says, given the decision between voting for him
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: and getting a pap smear from a girl I went
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: to high school with, hand me the paper gown.
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: That is a real... Did that person think of that
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: quote in the moment or was.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: That written down in preparation?
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: If so, I'm very impressed. That's what they think is
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: on their feet.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's their go-to quote about things they don't want
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe she should run the super PAC.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: You want to go to Applebee's for dinner? I'd rather.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Forget Jeff. Forget Jeff Rowe. She's going places.
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: Maybe she's their girl. Hire her.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: This is the answer. This is the next shakeup. All right.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: So let's get back to the debate. The moderators are
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Brett Baer and Martha McCallum from Fox News. They told
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Politico that Trump will be part of the questioning no
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: matter what, and that they intend to jump right in
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: on the news of the day, which is the Georgia indictments.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: If they ask about Georgia or any of the other indictments,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: what do you say if you're a candidate who actually
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: wants to win the Republican primary? Jen? Well, given.
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: given only four of them have attacked Trump on his legal,
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: shall we diplomatically call them, they don't think it's politically advantageous.
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: I think it's not clear it is politically advantageous in
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: the Republican primary, right?
• 49:35
  Speaker 6: It's working a little bit for Chris Christie.
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: Maybe because he's kind of moved up in New Hampshire
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: and is ahead of DeSantis now.
• 49:43
  Speaker 6: And his whole strategy is about attacking Trump on this stuff.
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: But it doesn't seem to be moving Asa Hutchinson.
• 49:49
  Speaker 6: Maybe he's got other issues.
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: I would say, though, at this point, that going after
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: Trump a bit on his, you know, not valuing democracy,
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: not standing up for people's right to vote, trying to
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: overturn an election, being a little loosey goosey with classified information, whatever,
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: pick your poison, would probably be to all of their
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: advantage because if they don't mix it up, they're not moving,
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: you know? So they're not going to attack him. They're
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: not going to move. So I would say if they
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: want to move, they should attack him. But that's not
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: necessarily what the polling is telling them. Okay, that's my
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: long answer.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Dan, what do you think? Do you have a better
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: line for Ron DeSantis than what Jeff Rowe gave him?
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: I think what Ron DeSantis and all these people should
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: do is begin by attacking Joe Biden and the Democrat
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: for weaponizing the government to attack all of their critics,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: from people who disagree with them online, people who want
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: to make independent decisions about their family, and Donald Trump.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: But make the point that the only way that they
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: will be able to stop Joe Biden and the liberal
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: Democrats is to beat them in November. And for all
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the good he did as president, Donald Trump is the
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: person least likely on the stage or the person in
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: this race, because he's not on stage, least likely to
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: do that. And we know that because he's the one
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: who lost in 2020. And it's going to be very
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: hard for him to improve on that performance when he
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: is in court for six months at a time.
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: It is surprising, to Dan's point, that none of them
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: have really... embrace this argument that Donald Trump is a loser, right?
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: That his argument in 2022 lost, that the candidates he
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: endorsed lost, that running as a candidate who is denying
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: the outcome of 2020 is not a winner. It's like
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: they don't run on the baggage or the fact that
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: he is You know, Ron DeSantis kind of like skirts
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: it or it's like in his strategy memos that like
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: all of a sudden people are going to magically wake
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: up one day and realize like.
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: It's Ron DeSantis. He's Donald Trump, but without the baggage.
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: But they don't do the work to kind of point
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: that out to people in terms of Trump being a
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: loser in the electoral sense.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's because they let themselves get painted into
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: this corner by Trump and they were too afraid. early
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: on to say that the election wasn't stolen, that Joe
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Biden was the legitimate winner. And so they all had
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: their like weird answers. And, you know, we were talking
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: before you came on, Jen, Dan was pointing out that,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: you know, like 70% of Republican voters still think that,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: you know, Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's not the legitimate winner. And so if you believe,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: if they, if these candidates know the voters believe that,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: then it's hard to call Donald Trump a loser because
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: They're speaking of voters who don't think he lost. But
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: like maybe if they did this earlier, maybe if right
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: after January 6th and they kept up, you know, some
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: of them obviously were criticizing Trump then. But if they
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: kept up the messaging that, yeah, Donald Trump really did lose,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: then maybe the electorate wouldn't think that.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: See, here's how you navigate that. Donald Trump was so
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: distracted by his petty grievances as a political problem that
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: he even let sleepy Joe Biden steal the election from him.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: We can't let that happen again. The Democrats are already
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: mobilizing to do what they did in 2020 again. How
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: is Donald Trump going to stop him if he is
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: stuck in court the whole time and unable to be
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: out there fighting against the deep state?
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: Jeff Rowe, move over. Dan Piper, looking for a super
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: PAC sidekick.
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: Okay, so Martha McCallum, to your point, and Brett Baier
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: have been talking a little bit about their strategy, right?
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: Or what they're going to do. And we'll see. We'll see.
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: It's Fox News, right?
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: And they have talked, as you said, about, you know,
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: bringing up Trump. Voters need to know, like, all routes
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: through Trump. Now, what she said was kind of interesting,
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: and maybe I'm over-reading into it, is when she was
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: asked about whether they would– whether she– this isn't a
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: Vanity Fair piece– whether– She thinks candidates views on the
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: 2020 election will be a focus point in the 2024 race.
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: She said, I think there's a lot of desire to
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: look forward. That being said, these trials and issues push
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: that question into the forum. It has to be dealt
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: with and addressed. And, you know, she was that she
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: then said they all know they're going to have to
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: be clear on where they stand on it now. I'm like,
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: that led me to think, but I'm like maybe jumping
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: too far here into what's possible on the Fox News debate,
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: is her saying, raise your hand if you think Biden
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: won the 2020 election.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing.
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: That's pointing to, right?
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: Which would be kind of a significant moment.
• 54:30
  Speaker 6: I mean, I guess depending on what they do. Maybe
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: I'm being too overly optimistic. Although DeSantis kind of was
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: a little more clear on the reality there recently, so.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Jen, that would be the best way to ask that question, too.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I had the same exact thought, which is like if
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: you just ask them, they're going to do their talking
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: points where they like skirt. But if you just say
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: raise your hand, if you think Donald Trump lost the
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: 2020 election, just show a hand. And make it make
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump lost is even is even harder for them
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: because they're not going to want to.
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden elected president.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I wonder who raises their hands in that scenario. No one. Wait,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: no one says that Joe Biden was a legitimate winner?
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: Asa Hutchinson does, probably, right?
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Legitimately won.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Christy does.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Legitimately won.
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: Christy.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Christy will.
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: Asa Hutchinson.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Well, Pence is basically... I think it's tough. Well, Asa Hutchinson.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Legitimate is the out, because they all argue that, yes,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden won, but there were a lot of questions
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: and some shenanigans. Like, how they were the question is
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: going to matter. You're right.
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, if they don't say legitimate... Yeah.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: What if they just say, yeah, if Joe Biden won
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: or did Donald Trump win?
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Chris Christie's going to start yelling at Brett Baer about
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: how these hand-raising questions are bullshit and we're not going
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: to do that. I'm not going to play your games
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: and they're all going to just ride his coattails to
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: avoid doing it. Because Christie's smart enough to know that
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: that's a terrible position for him to be in and
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: he's not going to go by it and they'll get
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: out of it. Chris Christie, PSA fan, probably is now
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: going to do that because we've given him that advice.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I think he'll raise his hand and beep.
• 56:07
  Speaker 6: Proud of it contrarian yeah oh my.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: God he would i mean he's he he said it
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: it's not like it's like some courageous thing for him
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: to do just now at the debate he's been saying
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: it all for like the last couple months he's been
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: saying it everywhere he goes including on pod save america.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: All right man i hope you i hope you're right
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: for the sake of i.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Haven't i haven't think you could get mike pence you
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: get my i get mike pence to raise his hand
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: i mean mike.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Pence is not gonna understand the question mike pence is
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: gonna go.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Like Mike Pence is, by the way, Mark Short, Mike
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Pence's senior advisor, has this quote in Politico.
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: Oh, I know exactly the one you're talking about.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: And I didn't say it. You know what? We're so
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: ready for this debate. It's let's get it on time.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: That's what he said. It's let's get it on time
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: for Mike Pence.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: First time for everything for Mike Pence, I guess.
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Joe Biden. He's been barnstorming the country
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: this week to celebrate the one year anniversary of the
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act. Happy anniversary, guys. He gave a speech
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin where he criticized Ron Johnson for voting against
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: the bill and supporting outsourcing. But he didn't mention Trump,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Trump's indictments or Trump at all. And it's not just Biden.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Most Democrats have been pretty quiet about Trump's 91 felony counts.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Here's what a Biden campaign alum could could be anyone
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: said to Playbook about the thinking behind this quote. Americans
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: know what Trump did. A lesson of every election cycle
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: from 2018 to now is don't get mired in the
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: endless details of Trump scandals. Talk about values and agendas. So, Jen,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: you and I talked about this a little bit when
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you interviewed me on MSNBC a couple weeks ago.
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it was very meta.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, no, we're flipping it.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Do you think it's feasible and
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: or wise for Biden and Democrats to avoid talking about
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: what will very likely be the biggest story of the
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: 2024 campaign?
• 58:08
  Speaker 6: So I think it's there's a big gap between never
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: talking about it and diving in.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: And talking about the details of the indictments and cases
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: in this moment to me.
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: So I think it's wise for them not to dive
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: into the details of the indictment and the specifics right now. One,
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: because it's already people already say Republicans, not people are
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: saying like Trump supporters already saying it's politicized.
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: They're going to say that anyway, but that feeds into it.
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: They don't need to do that in this moment.
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: I do think whoever this Biden aid person was and granted,
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: Biden has been in public office and running for office
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: for decades.
• 58:43
  Speaker 6: So it could literally be anyone. It could be anyone.
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: But what they're I think what I'm hearing from what
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: they're saying, the values argument is still likely talking about
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: the cases without saying Georgia indictment.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: It is making the case on the contrast and the
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: difference between. Joe Biden is somebody who stands up for democracy,
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: stands up for your rights, whether it's to vote or
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: make choices about your own body. There's a big, values
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: argument to be made that is exactly about the cases
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: that I think he will make. I also think right
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: now it's not the right moment.
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: This is all happening.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: I mean, there's 19 people are going to turn themselves
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: in next week or not, I guess.
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: I don't even know.
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know that they need to be like throwing
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: fire or whatever, stuff on the fire in this particular moment.
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: But that would be my take.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Dan?
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: The hard part about this, and it's the thing that
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: the people screaming at the top of their lungs that
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Democrats should be talking about this seem to miss, is
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: the people we need to persuade are the ones who
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: also are most likely to think that these are politicized investigations.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: In the CBS News YouGov poll, they asked voters what
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: they're more concerned about, whether the investigations are politicized or
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: what Donald Trump actually did try to overturn the election.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: By 41 to 38, independents say they are more concerned
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: about the investigations being political than what Donald Trump actually did.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: And so if all of a sudden every Democrat under
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: the sun is talking about this all the time, that's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: not going to help that problem.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: But of course, he has to talk about it. You
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: can't not talk about your opponent. And so the way
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: to probably do it is something like, I am not
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: going to comment on these investigations. I would never comment
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: on a criminal investigation. I've never talked to anyone in
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: the Justice Department about it. No one who works for
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: me has talked to him about it. But you all
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: saw what happened on January 6th.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: I have said this from the very beginning, dating back
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: to when I decided to run in 2019, that our
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: democracy is at stake. People's freedoms are at stake. And
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: it is very clear. And you go from there. You've
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: got to dispense and make the broader argument about Trump
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: that you would make even if he wasn't facing 91
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: felony counts in four jurisdictions.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 6: Like similar to the 2020 argument in some ways. Just,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 6: you know. This is why Dan was in charge and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: I was the deputy.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Because- Oh, you so surpassed me. It's not even funny.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: You took my job. You did it better. Then you
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: decided to become the press secretary and just do donuts
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: on the White House lawn. I would just try to
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: organize people and.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: I'd like throw Starburst into the office when it was
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: like a bad day. You could play smart things and
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: just do a smartness.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Yes. You're, you are a world renowned democratic communicator. You
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: host a show on cable and I videotape my phone
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: calls with John.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Who was just in the basement. Who was just in
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: the West wing basement the whole time. Uh, you know,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: not told about big speeches until the last minute.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you had four and a half years
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: in the White House, didn't have a single window.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: I do think that's, I think this is like, it's
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: simpler than the debate would suggest that's out there, right?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Because people are going to say, he's out there talking
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: about the economy and kitchen table issues, but he should
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: be talking about democracy. Well, it's like, first of all,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: he's got to do both. the persuadable voters that we're
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: talking about are, do care a lot about the economy.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: He should be touting the accomplishments of the Biden administration.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: He should be talking about the issues that, um, you know,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: kitchen table issues. He's going to be talking about abortion
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: quite a bit as he should. And he should be
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: talking about democracy, which is not only because Donald Trump's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: on trial, because this is, this was the basis for
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's entire campaign. You know, you guys were talking
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: about the 2020 announcement, right? He said, If we give
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump eight years in the White House, he will
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: forever and fundamentally alter the character of this nation. That
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: is that was from his announcement speech. That is a
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: pretty tough attack on Donald Trump.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: Which has gotten scarier since then. Right.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: And this was I mean, you know, I remember in
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: 2016 during that transition, which was a wild toad ride
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: of craziness.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: That was the concern of all of our former boss,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 6: Barack Obama.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Is like, OK.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: It's like one term, we don't know what's going to happen.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: We didn't anticipate all of the horrible that was going
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: to happen necessarily, some of it. But two terms is
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: when there's no repercussions. You're not going to be held
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: accountable by voters. You live by a different set of rules.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: And a second term is way scarier. That is still true.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: And I do think that the challenge for the Biden
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: campaign is going to be painting a picture for voters
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: about what a second Trump term could look like and
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: doing it in a way that lines up with, you know,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: what people are concerned about, what they might be worried about,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. So I think that like
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: that's when you're really sort of figuring out the frame
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: of the argument, the negative frame about Donald Trump. I
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: think you do have to push it forward and talk
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: about like what he might do in a second term.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: And part of that's going to be on policy, but
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: part of it's going to be what he might do
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: to democracy. or what he's likely to do to democracy.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: And by the way, you're all seeing him sit in
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: court right now because he tried to overturn an election
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: last time.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like say, get rid of the Justice Department and
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: make Jeffrey Clark the leader who also sits outside the
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: Oval Office.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: Like that sort of thing.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Defense Secretary Mike Flynn, QAnon supporter, Mike Flynn. Yeah, it's
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: going to be great.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: So, Jen, you have graciously agreed to stick around for
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: a round of two takes and a fake. Oh, I
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: I'm so in.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Which Elijah is going to moderate right now, if we
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: can get Elijah on the areas. Hey, Elijah.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: Hey, y'all. How's it going?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: It's good. It's good. We're excited to play Two Takes
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: and a Fake.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 7: Let's get into it. Welcome back to Two Takes and
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 7: a Fake. It's our take on the classic game, Two
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 7: Truths and a Lie. I'm going to read you all
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 7: three takes. Two of them are real.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: One of them is a fake.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 7: John, Dan, and Jen, you three will have to sniff
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 7: out the fake. Thank you to our subscribers who sent
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 7: these in. Sign up at crooked.com slash friends to join
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 7: our community. John, Dan, and Jen, are you ready to play?
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: Ready.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: It does feel like 23 is a harder time to
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: play this game, hence the reason to play it.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: I think you're going to do fine.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 6: Okay, I'm ready.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 7: Let's start with some MAGA pundit reactions to the Fulton
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 7: County indictment. Here's take number one. If you say, I
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 7: need to find 11,000 votes, that's very different from saying,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 7: I need you to find me 11,000 votes somewhere. Here's
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 7: take number two. Whatever you think of the Trump indictments,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 7: one thing is for certain. The glass has now been
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 7: broken over and over again. Political opponents can be targeted
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 7: by legal enemies. Running for office now carries the legal
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 7: risk of going to jail on all sides. And here's
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 7: take number three. The liberal media should keep comparing Donald
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 7: Trump to Tony Soprano. Every man wants to be Tony Soprano.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 7: Every woman wants to be with Tony Soprano.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Oh!
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 7: Which one is the fake?
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: I want number three to be real, but I think
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 5: number three is the fake.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 6: Because I feel like I know number two, and I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: think I know number one. Okay, that's taken.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Same, same. I'm with Jen. I think I know the
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: first two.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want number three to be real. And if
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Elijah was playing the game the way he normally plays it,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: number three would definitely be real.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 7: But I will side with you guys. You guys are correct.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 7: Number three is the fake. I mean, bonus points. Who
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: said number one and number two? Number one, again, is
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 7: the 11,000 votes is different than 11,000 votes.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Does anyone know? I can take it if no. I
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: think it's our friend Janine Pirro.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 7: Oh, I'm so impressed that you got that.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct. I am an addict. I am a
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: news addict. It's not healthy.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 6: I know number two.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Ted Cruz. I thought you guys would know number two.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: I don't remember.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Dan, do you know?
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: It's not Lindsey Graham.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: Ted Cruz?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Not an elected official.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I know it.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: Let's go for it.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro. Mr.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Offline.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 6: Oh, Ben Shapiro. That's right. There was a whole Ben Shapiro,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: meet Ben Shapiro.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: On what is formally known as Twitter and whatever we
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: call it now, X or whatever it is.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: I'm not engaged.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: I think we call it Twitter on this podcast. We're
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: not giving it Elon Musk.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: By the way, Ben Shapiro is so full of shit.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: He writes an entire book in 2014, The People vs.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama, where he suggests a RICO case against Barack
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Obama for the, this is going to trigger Dan, the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: IRS scandal. That was the whole book. He wanted to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: He wanted a racketeering charge against Barack Obama and the
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: Justice Department and the IRS for the IRS scandal. And
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: now he's like, I don't know. We don't want to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: be charging presidents.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: I'm getting a sense this Ben Shapiro fellow may not
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: be on the level.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: No, he's full of shit. Full of shit.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 7: Well, congratulations on getting the first one, John. I'm impressed
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 7: and also concerned for you.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: I knew both of those. Not only does John know it,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: he tweeted about it, which is a thousand times worse.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: I X'd.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: You didn't retweet. You did an original content with this.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Yikes. All right.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 7: Let's move on to round two, which will be headlines.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 7: These are three headlines from pieces that ran in various
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 7: publications this week. Headline number one. Is Georgia's case against
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 7: Trump one too many? Headline number two. How should the
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 7: GOP respond to Fulton County? Indict the left. Headline number three.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 7: Jack be not nimble. Jack be not quick. How Trump
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 7: is outmaneuvering Jack Smith.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: Oh, wow.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: Well, we know one is real.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: We've talked about it previously in this podcast. Why does
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: it really do the fake one as a third one
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: twice in a row?
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: It also sounds like a Maureen Dowd column, the third one.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 6: But it sounds so long.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: That's what's really getting me, which makes it sound fake,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: but also the notion could be real.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 6: I still think three is a fake.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go with two, just to try to
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: mix this up a little bit.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with two as well.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Jen, our guest, congratulations. You're correct. Three is the fake.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 6: Four points in the run, even though we got bonus points?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 6: How does the point system work?
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: No, Jen wins. She won outright.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: You are the winner. Congratulations.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Your first time.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: Well, we do have a third round, I will say.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, we have a third round?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 7: I know we talked about two, but there's good stuff
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 7: out there.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 6: It's a big week in the two reels and a fake.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: This isn't television, Jane. We have all the time here.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: We can just go for hours.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 6: You're going to just edit out. You'll edit out the
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 6: part where I win. I know where this goes.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Hopefully someone's got a long commute home today.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: Bonus round. Here we go.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 7: Tough to protect. That second one is from Charlie Kirk.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 7: He's been on that.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Kick for a long time.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 7: So these are quotes from voters on the ground. These
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 7: are just some fun things I ran into.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Voter number one.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 7: They're trying to do so much with the indictments. The
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 7: Democrats are so much worse, but they control the House
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 7: so they can do what they want to Trump. Voter
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 7: number two. Trump might say mean things that make all
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 7: the men cry because the men are wearing your wife's
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 7: underpants and you can't be a man anymore. But at
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 7: the end of the day, you want results. Donald Trump's
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 7: proved that at a national level.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Voter three.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 7: Russia, Russia, Russia all over again. The witch hunts are
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 7: making us stronger. Go ahead and indict him again. It
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 7: only makes me support him more.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: Two cannot be real.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to stick with the winner, Jen Psaki.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Two is absolutely real. I'm going to go with three.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: John is right. Two is absolutely real.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: It was from the New York Times. It was a
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: voter in the New York Times Siena poll.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 6: Oh, my God.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 6: I feel like I can't believe I missed that.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: It's wild.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 6: I think that.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 5: That person and the person you mentioned earlier should form
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: a bipartisan.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 6: Firm for messaging. That would just be amazing.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Wild. Wild stuff.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: I think Jen still wins. She gets a guest point.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Not even kidding, obviously. Also, I'm
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: terminally online, and it's a problem. Jen Psaki, thank you
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us today. Thank you, guys. Your
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: fantastic show, Inside with Jen Psaki, is also available wherever
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. So after you listen to this podcast,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: just start listening to Jen.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: That's perfect. And you're also hosting a special this Sunday
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: at 7 p.m., I hear. I am. Inside with Jen
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Psaki special report decision 2024. What are you going to
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: be talking about?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 5: Very lengthy title. We're going to be talking about the
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 5: Republican debate next week. And perhaps the confluence of events
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: next week that may take place at the same time,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: including Donald Trump potentially turning himself in the same day
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: or the next day. But mainly the debate and also
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: obviously lots of legal news as well.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so exciting. What a week for me to
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: be on vacation. Yikes.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Put your phone down. Put your phone down. I should
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: put my phone down. I will not for the Republican debate,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: but otherwise I will. Jen, thank you so much for joining.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you, guys.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: Everyone have a good weekend. And I'll see you guys
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: in a couple weeks. But Dan and Tommy and Lovett
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: will be here next week.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 6: Enjoy your vacation. Congrats on being here too.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 6: As Dan can confirm, it becomes real with two children.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: One for each of us.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: I feel it coming.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: My take on this is when you have your first child,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: everyone tells you it's perfect and amazing. And then when
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: you tell people you're having your second child, that's when
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: they give you real hardcore appraisals of what it's like.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to do that for you.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I've seen it because all my friends in LA
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: who have two kids seem much more tired and harried
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: than those of us with one child.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 5: The positive note is that the relationship between them is
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 5: so amazing.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: It makes it all worth it.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm hoping for.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 6: After you and Emily sleep, you know, however many months in,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 6: then that relationship is amazing.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: Last night for one straight hour, my kids, who are
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: age five and two, played nicely together in a room
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: with no.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Conflict, no violence.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: It was truly wonderful. But only the problem was I
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: couldn't really do anything because every moment I thought it
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: was going to come to an end and I was
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: going to have to run in there, but It was
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: sweet and wonderful.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 6: And my kids who are eight and five sleep, insist
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 6: on sleeping in the same room.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's really cute.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 6: For years. So it's cute. It's great. It's magical after,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 6: after the baby to be sleeps.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Well, Emily is due on January 7th. And so that
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: is just right between, uh, Jack Smith's trial begins and
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: the Iowa caucuses on January 15th. This is gonna be great.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 6: It's going to be amazing.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Can't wait. Baby Jack.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 6: Baby Jack. Can't wait to meet you.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Of course. That's so resistance. I love it. I'm going
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: to do it. Thank you, Jen. Everyone have a good weekend.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you later.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: Bye, guys.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Bye, everyone.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy Gardner Bernstein
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from
• 1:14:49
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• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
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