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The Power of Joy · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

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Welcome everyone to another episode of Chatting with the Experts
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with me, the host Paula Okonneh.
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Every week I bring to you women, amazing women I have to add, from Africa and
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the Caribbean and in the diaspora, who share with you things that at the
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end of the show you would have learnt.
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You would have been inspired, or be encouraged by these women.
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Today, the title of my show is An Ordinary Life Filled With the Extraordinary.
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My guest is...
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I have to tell you about her.
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First of all, she's extra special to me because she's my aunt.
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So my guest's name is Judith Bullen, and she's going to be talking
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about an ordinary life filled with extraordinary people who in turn
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success, failure, and search for meaning, with a growing sense of gratitude.
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She's my aunt.
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So I'll tell you a little bit about her and she may tell you more.
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She's Jamaican born, but is now an American citizen.
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And she is retired and lives in Ocala.
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There she shares her passion for gardening, for painting, for
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jewelry making, and for writing.
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And that brings her joy, not just her, but she also shares the joy with others.
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She's active in her church and she enjoys family interaction and marvels
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at how many seasons of growth life offers to us as she listens to
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new calls on how to serve others.
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She's had an amazing life.
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She's worked as the secretary general of the Grenada National Commission for UNESCO
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and prior to that she served for two years as the OAS project's Coordinator.
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So she was a coordinator for the National In Service Teacher Training Program.
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Prior to that, she was a high school Spanish teacher, and
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now she's the author of a book.
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So with that, I want to welcome my aunt, Judith Bullen, to
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Chatting with the Experts.
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Hello, Aunt Judith!
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Hello, Paula.
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I'm so happy that you are my guest.
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I feel extra special.
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Thank you.
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Extra special.
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So I tried to talk a bit about you, but is there anything I left out?
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Because you have an amazing bio, auntie.
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I don't know where to end, where to start.
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I mean, you're just so good.
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Well, you left out Jamaica and you left out Boston, but that's all in the past.
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If you don't mind, I'd like to focus more on the present and on the book,
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Hiding, Thinking, Being, and Present Joys, because, you know, living in the
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past is, old people tend to do that.
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And I think we need to learn that the present is so much more important.
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That's how we relate to our generation and future generations by being
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mindful of what's going on now.
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Absolutely.
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And before we talk about the book, I have to show you a book.
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I am so proud.
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I read this book from front to back, and I enjoyed every part of it.
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So, sorry auntie, I interrupted you.
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No, you didn't.
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My son Robert, your cousin, read the book and he's a computer programmer,
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systems manager, and he struggled with the fact that the title was not reflected
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in the order of the presentation.
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Kind of challenged me, so how come it wasn't arranged
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in Hiding, thinking, being.
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And we had a little discussion, but that made me go back to the author
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of that phrase who is Bishop Spong.
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He's an Episcopalian Bishop, and I went back to his book actually, his book,
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and you, I don't know if you can see it.
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You have to hold it up a bit.
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Oh, okay.
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Oh, no.
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Okay.
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You're going, it's going in and out.
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You know, it's called Eternal Life, a New Vision.
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His name is John Shelby Spong.
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I was so inspired by that phrase, but when I delved back in the
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book, there is so much there.
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And if you don't mind, I'd like to share a little of it.
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Is that good?
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That's fine.
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Okay.
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So, he says, God is the ground of all being.
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God is not an old white man in the sky, but so much more than that.
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And our journey is a journey inwards to find meaning.
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And as an answer to Robert's question, a lot of the questions are
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journeying in order to find meaning.
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Bishop Spong says the past, the present, and the future do not have boundaries.
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Just think about that for a minute.
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We kind of live in a
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undifferentiated time.
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The more deeply I am able to love, the more God becomes part of me.
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And he also said, Jesus was a human life so deeply lived.
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A human life through which love flowed without barrier or interception, a being
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so courageously present that he was open to the ultimate ground of all being.
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He became one with God and a lot of my poems are just a conversation
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with God about stuff and so I'll share some poems if you wish.
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I would love you to because there's some that stood out for me, but let's
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go with what you know stood out for you, what you want to share and then we can.
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Yes.
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Well, We can go back to my life and my ups and downs, but the point
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that I wanted to share first is Jesus redefined life and death.
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I like that one.
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Page 24.
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Jesus redefined life and death.
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Lord Jesus.
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You were a carpenter's son who symbolically cleansed the temple, sullied
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by co optation, hypocrisy, and greed.
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One of hundreds crucified by Roman hegemony, that savage, shaming penalty
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imposed in the name of law and order.
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An idol you despised and confronted knowing the cost.
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You left us no selfies, Lord, except the Gospels, memorialized reflections,
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multifaceted images of the intensity within your lived life, with not
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enough words to fully express fire of fearlessness, the joy of purpose, the
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irrational compassion and love and insight with which you touched others.
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You trumped tribal myths of a warring messiah with an internal
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transformative revolution.
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You were in God and God was in you.
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The kingdom of God broke through.
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Your disciples who scattered and fled to save their lives who denied you and
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went back to old routines were sparked individually into an explosion of insight
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of new words of boldness fearlessness of love that came to define them living that
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proclaimed a new life in the word dying with joy knowing Jesus not Caesar as Lord.
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We, too, are carpenters sons and daughters, pursuing varying
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degrees of privileged living today.
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We, too, see the savagery of social injustice and deprivation masquerading
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as in Caesar's day, as law and order.
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Inspire us to despise and topple such idols in ourselves to grasp the intensity
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within your lived life, the fire of fearlessness and joy of purpose, the
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irrational compassion and love and insight with which you touched others.
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We will speak new words of fearlessness and love.
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We will live a new life in the word and die with joy.
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May we.
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Like your disciples in the arena shout Jesus is Lord as our lives echo.
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Amen.
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So, you know, I was trying to think of how charismatic, how, you know,
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overpowering Jesus personality must have been that people listen to him
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and they still didn't understand him and it was only afterwards that many
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of the disciples came to understand.
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So, there's another one called Reformed Theology.
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What page is that, Auntie?
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This side.
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You want me to read it?
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What page is that?
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You know, I will read poems all the time.
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If you let me.
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Well, as you're looking for it, the other thing, I love this one that
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you chose, Jesus Redefined Life and Death, because another poem that
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stood out for me is Branding Jesus.
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Ah, yes.
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I love that one too, because I love how you took modern day where, we
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brand everything and you brought it down to, different perspectives,
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how people look at Jesus.
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Like the first one you said, Jesus, the first stanza, Jesus,
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Yeshua, false prophet, many injury.
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Jesus, my Lord, my way, exclusively, conservative Christians.
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Jesus, perfect and prude, hater of those we dislike, more conservative Christians.
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Jesus, avenging judge, here now and coming again, militant Christians.
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So, who is Jesus to me?
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And then you gave your own view on that.
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Jesus, son of Mary, Yeshua, a Jewish.
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Prophet, not conformed but transforming, servant, Lord, way maker and guide, ever
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pointing beyond the familiar to an all encompassing kingdom, Jesus, Son of God,
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my guide to be open to the least and the lost, women, prostitutes, children,
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lepers, and lunatics, who did not condemn the woman taken in, adultery, my hope for
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a way to live more abundantly, my faith and life eternal, through God's Grace.
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Jesus.
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Oh, Jesus.
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I love that one too.
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Thank you.
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Well, you know, you and I share a strong faith and Spong has challenged
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some of the notions that we had.
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Like the notion, one thing the scholars point out is that In the
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Jesus age, people understood metaphor more than we do now, so a lot of
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what was said was metaphor, and we have insisted on taking it literally.
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And Spong
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asks us, Do you really believe that heaven exists as a place with milk and honey?
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Do you really believe that hell is a place with fire burning?
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Or is this a metaphor?
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Because some people who live in hell, it's as if they are living
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with fire burning all the time.
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If you think of it, some people who are very unhappy in their lives,
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it's like living with a fire burning and you're not having any water.
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It could well be a metaphor, but he goes beyond questions.
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He does provide us some answers.
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So I recommend that book.
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And I read Reformed Theology, my take.
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I'm now in the Presbyterian denomination and the Presbyterians consider themselves
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thinking, reforming denomination.
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Reformed and always reforming is their motto.
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So they're always willing to rethink.
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Reformed theology, my take.
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Reformed theology, my take.
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Okay.
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God, you created the ever expanding universe.
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You spoke my spinning planet into harmony.
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Oh, holy God, you encompass eternity.
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You're far above and beyond the scope of my comprehension, yet you fill my
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reality with the intimacy of love.
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We are children of Adam and Eve, unworthy sinners.
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Self serving, self centered, fearful, lazy, and so often faithless.
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We rush headlong and are unwilling to stop and be still and know that you are God.
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Jesus came to teach, to reveal that grace is free.
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He was ever willing to heal by touching the blind, even lepers.
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He ate with sinners, he offered himself freely to all, like common bread and wine.
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He taught and retaught that my kingdom is not of this world.
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Yet when sin, Rome, and threatened church leaders conspired to kill him as
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a criminal terrorist, though innocent, he went silently to the shameful cross.
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At what cost?
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That silence.
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Then a resurrection was created by God in Peter, before so easily called
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by a maid to deny Jesus, now boldly speaking to crowds about his good news.
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For Jesus open life and willing death had become a mighty voice from
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heaven, insisting grace is free.
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Even his blind disciples could now see.
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What then is my response today?
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The liberating joy of the Lord can strengthen me.
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In the midst of circumstances, I can know that I am not alone.
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That I cannot hide from God's love.
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I can be bold and pray for the impossible, for named loved ones facing disease.
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God heals.
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I can work daily and ignite routines with a spark of the grace received.
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God's Holy Spirit creates still.
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Agape love prompts me to lay aside self and focus on another's life, sustained by
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the energy and beauty and presence of God.
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Yeah, so,
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you know, sometimes we're tempted to say what our faith journey is.
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This was an attempt to say what my beliefs are.
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This is very powerful.
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Thank you.
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Very powerful.
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You said an attempt.
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I don't think this is an attempt.
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This is you.
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This is me.
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Yes.
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And I noticed that it was previously published in Ghibli.
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Yes.
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The first book, I have that book.
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Jimbilins are the Jamaican, is the Jamaican, whatever, Jimbilin is the
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Jamaican name for a fruit that in Grenada you'd call gooseberry, I think.
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Okay, I know it.
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It's a very tart fruit.
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Very tart, yes.
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Yes, yes, just thinking about it makes your tongue.
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Already squeezing up my face.
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Yeah.
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So, no, not all the poems are, trying to be so profound.
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I went to Jamaica last year and our cousins came to meet us at the beach and
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we sat down, we chatted, we ate together.
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Of course, you know, Jamaicans like ackee and salt fish and rice and
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peas and we ate lunch together.
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They were talking about just the family.
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A disease in Jamaica that it's like the flu.
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It's called chikungunya.
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. Yes, yes.
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It was around.
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It's been around for some time.
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Been around.
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Yes.
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So they were talking about that.
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So I wrote it all into a poem.
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Where's that poem Aunt Judith?
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It's on page 86.
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86.
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Okay.
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Yes.
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It's called Mango Joy.
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Oh, I forgot to mention the most important thing.
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They have mango trees at home and they brought a bag, a
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huge bag of mangoes for us.
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And that was like coming home.
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The mango that it's the nicest.
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It's the East Indian mango.
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It's kidney shaped.
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It's big.
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It's juicy.
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It's hairy, so the hairs will stick up in your teeth.
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Another half an hour.
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Taking it out.
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But it's pure joy to eat.
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So, this is called mango joy.
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What a way, East Indian mango sweet.
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Not to mention juicy.
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This July.
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Oh my, I mean, I peel the skin with my teeth.
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Lovely flesh glows.
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Then my lips meet the hairiness.
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The juice flows down my cheek and down my arms.
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It even drops into my lap.
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This is Mango Joy Fitzshrew.
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So, our dear, dear cousins came.
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We had a lovely day in the sea.
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We chatted about many things.
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Life, children, grandchildren, chikungunya and Aki.
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Then they showed us the bag.
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Mango Joy!
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Mango Joy fitzshrew!
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I read that and I could feel the joy that you felt in a whole big bag of mangoes,
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because we don't get the same type of mangoes now we live in the United States.
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Not at all.
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Where, it's just fresh and you sink your teeth into it.
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Juicy.
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Juicy.
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Yes.
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And that, so it was on your vacation there that you well, you are recording
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your experience on vacation and your cousins visited with these mangoes.
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Yes.
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But you know, the vacation wasn't totally joyful because I don't know if
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you have experienced this, but going back home, not sure where you call home.
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Is it Grenada?
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I call...
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I go to Grenada more often than I go to Nigeria.
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So Grenada is more home because I think my, the last few years of
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my parents lives were in Grenada.
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Were in Grenada, yes.
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So, but when you go, you look for friends that were there and they're
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not there often in the States.
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Yes.
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You look for places and they have changed.
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Going back home, it's hard to find home when you do back.
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And this poem called Land of My Birds.
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On page 77.
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It's sort of a bittersweet thing.
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I was impressed by...
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we were on the beach at the hotel and you know the liveliness of
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people that are there and the music.
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You always have music when you're in the Caribbean.
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I mean, it's non stop.
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Non stop, whether you want to hear it or not.
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True.
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Share it with you very loudly too.
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Exactly.
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And then some people, of course, tourists mainly, will be searching
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for marijuana and all the thrills associated with visiting the Caribbean.
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So, now and again, you do get a whiff of the marijuana, which
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they call collyweed in Jamaica.
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Ah, that's what it is.
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Which smells really bad to me.
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It smells like a skunk.
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That's why I describe it.
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So this one is called Land of My Birth.
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Land of my birth, where do you hide?
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Beyond the leaf swirled azure tide, Up in the cloud screened sunset's pride, Barred
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by the steps, weak knees must stride.
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Oh, I relate to that.
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Weak knees for me.
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There you go.
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Jamaica love within my heart, bound up with souls so long depart, meshed
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in the places filled by dust, tangled reminders that shine through rust.
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Mixed in with laughter of children I hear, The music syncopate with patois claire.
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See black skin beauty clad in sea gear.
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Love binds my alien soul to kinetic patria dare.
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Hustle and strive is everywhere.
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Joy fills my eyes, blots out a tear.
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Skunk like collyweed fills the air.
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Silently, my friend Doggie, who jumped to his death when high, seems to give
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me a stare, and I look away and pray.
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That is a story, true story, a friend of mine.
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He had mental issues, I believe, but he did jump off something really
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high when he was high with marijuana, which makes me know that marijuana is
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not a harmless drug, as people say.
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Yes.
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And, you come in, you being Jamaican born, Jamaican native would know that.
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Exactly.
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Even more so than others.
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This, it needs to be taken with care.
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Yes.
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And joys, you know, my joy was being in Grenada with you guys,
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you know, all the young people.
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I'm sure, sure you remember all of us having so much fun there.
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Yes.
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My three sons, and then having Matthew Gino family.
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Mmm-hmm.
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That for me were wonderful days.
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Going fishing off the Point Saline.
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True Blue, I think?
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True Blue.
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And, the mango trees that were in the yard and the church across the road, Bethel.
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It was a full life.
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It really was.
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And now, Judith, I have to say, you helped make it full.
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You brought a lot of joy to us.
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Thank you.
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A lot of our memories are associated with joy, associated with you
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because you're always there to cheer us up, to be a happy smiling
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face in times that weren't so good.
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One thing I learned and this is a life lesson is that as you move from
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place to place, you have to decide to make the place your at home.
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Yes.
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And so that was me making Grenada my home having moved from Jamaica
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there as a stranger, just as we have moved to the United States
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and now we're making it home.
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Exactly.
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And so this poem was joy.
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That's the page, the one on page twenty nine, I assume.
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Joy, twenty nine, let's look at it.
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You wanna read it?
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Yes, it is.
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What is joy?
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Lord, just a sweet breath that fills my head with hope or a melody in my heart
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that lifts my feet, yearning realized.
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Like a butterfly touches a bright flower.
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What is joy?
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Lord, just a mocking bird singing every song she knows on a perfect
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fall afternoon fanned by cool leaves.
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Yet another clear stream, seen in different light, revealing
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surface sky, deep weaving grass, and boogie woogie fishes.
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What is joy?
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It is joy.
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Lord, thus a cry of a newborn, stilled by mother's milk, or someone's unexpected
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smile of welcome after a weary day.
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Your dog's eyes telling you how special you are, no matter
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what, I can relate to that.
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Yet even these, dear one, are fleeting joy, glimpses only of
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the constant and eternal joy.
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Help me, Lord, to learn, inhale, inspire, hold my breath forever full of joy.
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Yes.
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The boogie woogie fishes, I was looking at a pond and the pond was reflecting
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the sky, but also you could look through the water and see the fishes
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and there were goldfishes with these very fancy tails and they were dancing.
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Yes, so.
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I like your description.
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I would never have used that description for fish, you know, that are kind of
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almost, swimming very fast movement through the water, but this was a
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very apt description, and I thought, lovely, and Aunt Judith captured that.
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You did a fantastic job.
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Thank you.
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I have a picture that I drew of my mom, a painting on page 29, and
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there's a poem about that picture.
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Oh.
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Talk with David on meaning.
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Okay.
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Meaning of names.
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Which is on page 28.
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Yes, I see it.
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Talking to a pastor some years ago, he tickled my imagination saying, we live
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up to the meaning of our names, even if not consciously aware of that meaning.
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Something inside us drives us to do.
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That is when I started to realize how much praise...
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that's what my name means to me.
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And I try to share it more.
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My dear son's names are Robert, bright fame, Andrew, manly, Ian, God is gracious.
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So I know that is true.
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My sister, Pam, honey has always been so.
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My brother, Dave, friend.
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My mother, Esmeralda, emerald has the most beautiful eyes.
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There's a lot in a name.
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She had a kind of greenish tinge in her eyes.
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She did!
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And her eyes were kind, you know, but when you saw her, you were, you were
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taken aback with, whoo, her eyes.
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Yes.
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Full of life.
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She was a force to be reckoned with.
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Full of life, yes.
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So what inspired you to put all of these poems together in this book though?
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Because
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I have been writing them over many years.
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Mm-Hmm.
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. And I said at first, before my first book, that none of my
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poems would ever be published.
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They were just for me.
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But my mom encouraged me.
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She had published books of poetry before, and she encouraged me.
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But it was only after she died that I actually got the courage, the gumption,
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to publish Jimbilin, self publish it.
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And then this one, having published Jimbilin, I just kept writing, and
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I discovered I had a lot of poems.
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So I thought, why not?
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But I did want to make it.
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a combination of poems and paintings.
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And
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stories.
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You had stories.
32:07
You have stories.
32:08
And then the stories came in at the end when I went to Jamaica.
32:11
These stories were written when I was on the beach in Jamaica, just for fun.
32:15
Ah,
32:17
yes, yes.
32:17
So they're fiction or they're based, I mean, they're real life stories, but you.
32:22
You...
32:24
Funny you should ask that.
32:25
Creativity?
32:27
They are fiction, but in there, there's the background of relating to real life
32:37
events and people, including myself.
32:40
Okay.
32:41
Yeah, so it's kind of tongue in cheek.
32:44
Some of the stuff.
32:46
Okay.
32:48
Okay.
32:49
All right.
32:50
You said there's another one that you wanted to talk about another poem.
32:54
Oh, I wanted to read Andrew's poem.
32:57
Mother's Day.
32:59
I never forget my son, Andrew.
33:02
Yes,
33:02
At
33:02
18, he went to glory.
33:06
Yes,
33:08
but he's always remembered
33:11
always can never be forgotten.
33:13
I mean,
33:13
Never forgotten.
33:15
Yes.
33:16
And people who have died, stay with us in our hearts.
33:22
Yes.
33:22
That's true.
33:24
So I have a picture of him there.
33:27
He was so handsome.
33:29
Very
33:30
handsome.
33:30
After he died, so many young women came weeping because they loved Andrew so much.
33:39
Andrew's birthday celebration, his birthday is March 29th, if you remember.
33:45
Andrew, my son, so handsome and tall, outrageous in mirth, often ready to brawl.
33:53
Yet very kind and generous in heart.
33:57
Friend to so many, in you it was an art.
34:01
I watched you say yes to welcome Melody's baby sibling.
34:06
Even though you were dealing with pain and tube feeding, that mindless,
34:13
aggressive cancer that congested your frame stopped your breath, but could
34:20
not put out the flame of bright memories shining from many years past or the glory
34:28
that you rushed ahead of us to meet.
34:33
Because at the end, he said, don't hold me back.
34:37
He wanted to rush to something.
34:42
And that was Robert experience that I got there late.
34:49
Robert was there when he passed.
34:52
Yeah.
34:55
Andrew said something to me that I've never forgotten because when
34:59
he was diagnosed, excuse me, I remember calling him and speaking
35:03
with him and praying with him.
35:05
And he said, you know what, no matter what happens, I am healed.
35:10
If God chooses to heal me on this side of eternity, then I'm healed.
35:15
But if he doesn't, and I go, I pass on, I'm healed as well.
35:20
I have never forgotten that.
35:22
Wow.
35:24
That's awesome.
35:26
Yes.
35:28
I remember because I was speaking to him from my car
35:30
and I know exactly where I was.
35:32
I was parked talking with him.
35:34
I was praying with him and he said, no matter what, I am healed.
35:39
If I go on to eternity, I won't have this cancer anymore.
35:43
I'm healed.
35:45
I've held on to that for years.
35:50
Yes, indeed.
35:53
So, we were joking, Ian and I, about Mother's Day, I said, maybe
35:58
Andrew's up there in heaven now playing pan with this uncle Evelyn.
36:03
No harp for him.
36:05
Yeah, probably playing a pan.
36:08
Yes.
36:10
Whoo, life.
36:12
Yes, life
36:17
and death and we live in both, you know, it's a fluid thing.
36:23
Most people are afraid to think of death.
36:27
I am sometimes, but it's everybody's destination.
36:33
That's one thing that we know is going to happen no matter what.
36:36
Right.
36:37
And so we come to terms with it in our own way.
36:42
There's a poem I wrote and I was pretending that there was this
36:46
very fearful little old lady.
36:49
I read that one too.
36:50
Probably it was me and her courageous friend.
36:54
I'm looking for it.
36:56
It's page 72.
37:01
Page 72.
37:02
Okay.
37:03
If
37:06
you want to read it.
37:08
Let me see.
37:10
Oops, I'm still trying to find it.
37:13
My Greatest Fear.
37:15
Yes.
37:17
I can, Aunt Judith, why don't you read it?
37:19
Okay, My Greatest Fear.
37:21
My greatest fear is to die alone.
37:24
My family is so far away, she whispered, lips quivering.
37:30
I caught her tender, wrinkled face.
37:33
Wiped away the tears, held her hand, then finally I ventured a reply.
37:39
Don't be afraid, my dear, dear friend.
37:44
So many of us live solitary lives, yet I trust God.
37:49
That no one ever passes alone.
37:53
Eyes open and you see departed relatives come silently surround you
38:00
lovingly, gently shroud dark corners where terrors may try to linger
38:08
a foretaste of heaven invigorates impels you to shed earthly concerns,
38:15
urges you to rush towards the light.
38:19
Hearing the last to go, they say, perhaps mystically transcends with you, basking
38:27
in angelic music, sublime symphony.
38:33
Beautiful.
38:34
That's a hope.
38:36
That's a hope.
38:38
Yes.
38:39
Beautiful.
38:40
What made you write this?
38:42
I know of so many people who live alone, not only live alone, but die alone.
38:49
And some of them, some of the stories are really sad, you know, they're
38:52
discovered days later, that kind of thing.
38:56
But
38:59
I saw a film which spoke about near death experiences.
39:05
And in every case, there was a sense of this feeling of peace.
39:13
And many spoke about a light, seeing a light.
39:18
So I do believe that the process of death is sort of like birth.
39:24
It's a new birth into a new dimension.
39:30
I like that.
39:30
Never thought about it that way, but yes,
39:35
Mmmm-hmmm.
39:36
Birth into a new dimension.
39:41
Yeah.
39:42
And some of the things we associate in terms of rules with this.
39:49
I think God just wipes those out.
39:50
I think God's grace is enough to blot out a lot of what we would
39:56
say, you know, they weren't saved.
39:59
They weren't whatever.
40:03
I just trust that God welcomes us.
40:07
We see that, and you mentioned that in one of your poems.
40:10
We see that with Jesus's life.
40:12
You know how he didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery?
40:16
He said, go and sin no more, because the people who were
40:20
condemning her were sinners as well.
40:22
Exactly.
40:22
Exactly.
40:24
Jesus.
40:24
The only sinless one didn't condemn her.
40:26
Didn't condemn her.
40:28
He just...
40:30
I've thought about that so many times, you know, when you're talking to
40:34
people who are beating themselves up and, you know, not realizing that.
40:41
Wait a minute.
40:42
Everybody is sinful.
40:45
Only Jesus didn't sin.
40:47
And let's see how he dealt with people who were sinning.
40:51
That was in sinful acts.
40:53
The woman at the well, he didn't need to talk to her because in those
40:56
days, he didn't talk to a woman.
41:01
But he talked to her.
41:03
So the message we get...
41:05
He talked to her.
41:05
He offered her hope.
41:07
Yes.
41:09
Yes.
41:09
In a meaningful way.
41:11
In a meaningful, and he changed her life.
41:13
Because she left there and ran into the town to tell people,
41:18
You have to see this man.
41:20
He told me everything about my life.
41:23
But it didn't condemn her.
41:26
Exactly.
41:26
And the town believed.
41:27
She became a missionary.
41:30
Yes.
41:31
Yes.
41:32
And that's what God does for us.
41:35
That's what Jesus does for us.
41:37
Every circumstance that we find ourselves in is never wasted.
41:41
And if we see it like that, you know, this is an opportunity to change
41:46
someone's life, influence someone in a positive way, even the bad
41:50
things that happened in our lives.
41:52
Exactly.
41:54
If there were no bad things happening, you would live a very,
42:02
you would never have a challenge.
42:07
You would never grow I suppose is the word.
42:11
So I also believe you want to appreciate how will you appreciate the good things
42:15
if you've never had anything bad.
42:17
Exactly.
42:17
Yeah.
42:18
Mm hmm.
42:19
So, yeah.
42:21
Yeah.
42:21
So, as we're trying, I mean, this has been an incredible session, reading these
42:27
beautiful poems, all created, generated, inspired by God through my aunt.
42:36
I want to ask you one, before we close, to just give us one tip.
42:43
For, you know, as I said at the beginning, you have always been an aunt who I
42:48
associate with joy and with happiness, and I know your life hasn't been perfect, but
42:53
in spite of that, you still generate joy.
42:56
That's why whenever I come to Orlando, I have to come and see you.
43:01
Is there one tip that you can give to us?
43:04
Because, you know, at your preface, you said something, which I stood out for me.
43:09
You said, let me read it here.
43:12
At 80, yes, a new book.
43:15
80 something is a good enough age to reflect on a life that has
43:20
been, that has included hiding emotionally, many struggles for
43:24
self realization, and finally, increasing self love and acceptance.
43:32
Is there one tip you can leave with us?
43:35
I remember Jesus said repeatedly, Fear, not.
43:40
That was his major message.
43:44
Fear, not.
43:45
And fear drives so much that happens in today's society.
43:51
You know, a lot of prejudice is based on fear.
43:55
People don't seek job opportunities out of fear.
43:59
They stay in their little rut and they're unhappy.
44:05
I think we just need to listen to Jesus.
44:09
Fear not.
44:10
A diagnosis comes, fear not.
44:16
So that would be what I would encourage people to remember.
44:22
Life is full of surprises.
44:29
Life is indeed full of surprises and so if you approach it not being fearful,
44:35
that takes away some of the already difficulties that just life, just
44:40
being in this world presents to us.
44:43
I thank you for that, Grace.
44:45
Fear not.
44:47
Thank you for having me.
44:50
So, one last question.
44:52
If anyone wants to contact you, how can they contact you?
44:55
They can contact me through my email, which is my name, judith.
44:58
bullen@gmail.com.
45:02
That may be the easiest way.
45:04
Okay.
45:04
And you do have a website if I remember.
45:06
I do have a website too, but I can't remember it right now.
45:09
Okay, I'll put it in the show notes there because I think it's
45:16
judithbullen.bigcartel.com.
45:19
Yes.
45:20
I'll put that in the show notes.
45:22
And for those of you, my listeners and my viewers, if you do want to be a guest
45:26
on my show, please reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.
45:32
com.
45:33
Or you can get in touch with me on LinkedIn.
45:38
Just search for Paula Okonneh.
45:41
I'm also on Instagram.
45:43
My handle there is chat_experts_podcast and Facebook is not quite
45:51
my thing, but I'm trying.
45:53
If you search for Paula Okonneh, you'll find me there.
45:56
Thank you.
45:56
Thank you.
45:58
This has been so good.
46:00
I'm sorry, you were saying something.
46:02
No, this was a pleasure.
46:05
What a pleasure it was to have my very own auntie.
46:08
Yay.
46:09
Thank you.