Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Stanley Illman on Exploring the World by Gwagon and Porsche

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Stanley Illman on Exploring the World by Gwagon and Porsche · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm your host Scott Brady, and for this week's discussion,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I have Stanley Illman. Now, Stanley is a long time
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Overland traveler, but he's also a race driver for off
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: road racing, including winning the Roof of Africa, and he's
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: also traveled around the world in various vintage car rallies.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: So these are some really fun conversations with Stanley about
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: traveling around the world in both vintage cars and in
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: overland vehicles. Stanley has a love for the glanda Ogans,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: so we talk about that vehicle, and we talk about
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: some of the other platforms that he's built throughout the years,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: including the ent Decker g Wagon and his time owning
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Unicat too. So this is a really great conversation around
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: overland vehicles, but it's a fun conversation around travel in
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Africa because Stanley's been traveling in Africa for the last
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: sixty plus years and he has some great stories to tell.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: So really interesting conversation with Stanley Illman. This content is
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: The magazine was founded in two thousand and six with
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews along
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: with the most stunning adventures and photography. We care deeply
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: about the countries and cultures we visit and share our
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero averatorial
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: By subscribing to Overland Journal, you're helping to support our
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  Speaker 2: employee owned and veteran owned publication. Your support also provides
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  Speaker 2: resources and funding or content like you are watching or
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: listening to right now. You can subscribe directly on our
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: website at Overland journal dot com. Well, Stanley, thank you
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: so much for spending time with me this morning. You
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: are one of the legends of our industry. You helped
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: to create so many of the unique vehicles and products
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: that we all enjoy today, and it's going to be
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: fun to hear not only where you've.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Traveled around the world, but what led you to a lot.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Of those decisions that resulted in the creation of those products.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: But what I'd love to start with is the story
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: of how you somehow survived rolling a Porsche on a
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: rally into a drainage ditch and are still with us today.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: That's an incredible story.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that happened on London Sydney and we were
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: rulaying through Malaysia and we were end up an honor
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: plantation for a stage and France was driving, if not me,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: and we've lost control and went into a ditch upside
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: down fall of water. Wow, and the car was submerged.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: We couldn't get out the back because of the rold cage,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: the two walls on the side of the of the vehicle,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: couldn't get out the windows, and the front was buried
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: in the mud. So the best we could do was
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: to gasp for a little bit of air on the top,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: which you had to take off your helmet. We strolled
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: around a bit. We got to the top and from
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: my diving experiences in the early years as a as
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: a North Sea diver when I was young, you blow
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: bubbles to see where up and down is because it's
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: pitch black. Oh sure, okay, And managed to find some
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: air at the top and we sat there for forty
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: five fifty minutes waiting for someone to come and rescue us.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: So luckily a poort valcan crashed behind us and in
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: the same corner and I didn't land on top of us,
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: so there was would have been finished. Yeah. So we
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: landed behind us and they they could get out because
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: they weren't completely flat, they weren't submerged in anything. They
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: could climb out and they saw us there and they
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: signaled for the next guy that came through to reported
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: back to control, and then they came with the crane
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: and was the dust and the coat cut.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And if I remember you, you you got the car
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: running again and you completed the journey.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, that that one was my final. That's
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: when Fran and I said, I think we're old enough
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: to get out of this game now, Well you're still
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: how we still can Yeah, And that was a big
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: fright for both of us and it was a close call.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: And after that we actually stopped racing. Yeah you know,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: but we still we still carry on. Four by four.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: The team carries on forever.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, long as we can.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Well, let's go back to the beginning. Where were you
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: born and what kind of started your love for the outdoors.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I was born Johannesburg, South Africa, and my father was
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: a pharmacist and my grandparents had a small holding north
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: of Johannesburg with their little farm that they had chickens
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: and some cattle and it was a hobby for my grandfather.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: And I started my life for the outdoor being with
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: them a lot, because my parents are always working in
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: a pharmacy. Sure, and I spent a lot of time
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: with my grandparents as a youngster, and I learned from that,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: you know, basically.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: And then you spent quite a bit of time riding
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: horses early in life too.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: I used to ride horses. I enjoyed that very much.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I did a little bit of show jumping that interested me.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Then I moved to motorcycles. I started very early in motorcycles.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: At sixteen. I was on a small GERRELLI that's if
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: we were allowed to ride then, or I item those
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: two Italian little mopeds and he started on those. We
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: used to travel all over the country with him, amazing
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: and going long distances like three four hundred kilometers on
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: a fifty cc and bicycles of course when we were younger. Sure,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: and you know, it was an open way of life
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: in South Africa and you could travel everywhere and it
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: was very safe.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Well, and it was It's interesting because you've covered so
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: many different means of travel throughout throughout your time, and
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: so many different kinds of vehicles. One of the one
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: of the stories that I remember hearing was you buying
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: a Unimogue and talk about what why did you purchase
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: a Unimog and where did you drive it to?
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Well, that's all started as as something different. Yeah, we've
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: done all the form our four stuff. We've traveled through Africa.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: We've had gone all the way up to Ethiopia, all
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: the way around and for many years of I don't
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: know how many hundreds of thousands of kilometers I've done
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: off road. I decided one day I think a Unimog
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: is a good idea. It's the ultimate four by four vehicle.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: I bought a Unimog in Germany, had it moved to
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: right hand drive, imported into South Africa, put a canvas
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: back on the back of it, just with a called
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: a small load bed, and it was a four seat
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: the double four door front. The two frances and myself
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: went for a test drive to Ethiopia and with two
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: rooftop tents on the top, and then when it came back,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: I then shipped it to Germany because I wanted to
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: build a proper campavan out of it and went to
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Unicap and they helped me build that whole vehicle and
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: brought it back here and then the lake Paul Allen
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: brought that Unimok from me.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that story.
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  Speaker 2: And that was actually the first Unimog I had ever
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: driven was yours, and this was in twenty ten here
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: in South Africa when we went up to your game farm.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: That was the first time I ever I had ever
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: driven Unimogue and it was incredible. And the camper that
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: you had on there was very unique in the fact
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: that you had had it.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: If I recall correctly, the whole.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Back of it dropped down and became like an observation platform.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: It was a sleeping platform. Yeah, so we could sleep
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: out there, you know. It was a great vehicle. Yeah,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: great fun. I've traveled quite a bit with it. After that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: We crossed it when it was finishing unicat We went
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: across the Sahara.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I remember that you went over the Atlas Mountains and everything.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I went all the way across and we went to
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Nisia through to Libya all the way down to so then.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you enjoy about that trip was?
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  Speaker 3: What was the desert is magical. I'm still a great
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: lever of deserts. Yeah, I'm not great on jungles because
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I don't think you have the depth of feel. It's
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: sugary trees, it's it's very close up. Yeah, But the
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: desert with those open spaces for me, I can drive
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  Speaker 3: there all day.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I agree with you.
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  Speaker 2: There's something I think peaceful and yes, all of that
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  Speaker 2: about the desert and it and it you feel like
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: you're a part of the place, correct, whereas you're right
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: in the jungle. It's kind of you're surviving the jungle.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean. You don't have any distance. Yeah,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: it's close up and it's damp, and it's yeah not
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: quite masaa be. Yeah, that's about it.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Well, we we spent quite a bit of time, so
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: we Stanley and I. We did a trip with some
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: friends Brian Bass, who many of you on the podcast
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: have heard.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: We went to Kenya.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And we flew into Kenya and we picked up the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Golanda Agans. Let's talk a little bit about those cars,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: because I think it's interesting before we talk about the trip,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: but you had purchased ten specialties.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: There were nine of them. Actually, we managed it couldn't
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: get ten the Swiss Alex. Through Alex in Switzerland, we
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: managed to buy what they called the Green Line, which
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: was a military style vehicle and used for military purposes,
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: and we could actually spect the vehicle the where we
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: wanted it, and we bought nine vehicles. Of those, seven
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: were converted into indeckers. They were all We took them
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: down to Unicat again and they converted seven of them
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: into into indeckers. And we had a group of guys
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: that everybody wanted one and I kept two and the
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: rest were sold off, and Alex kept one and a
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: friend of mine, Richard Schilling, he kept another one. And
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: we had some great trips in those vehicles all over.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Africa and incredible vehicles.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And if I remember a lot somewhere along the way,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: you purchased some or all of Unicat to finish the project.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Had a little bit of a problem at one stage,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: and we actually bought into it, but then we sold out.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: There was a great guy there, Boss, who owns it
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: still today. Yeah, okay, he was a big it guy.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: He had lots of bucks. I didn't have that kind
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: of bucks to support Uniquet. But when we finished our stuff,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: we got out and he stayed in.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Still great friends, all of us, unique Cat and Bars,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: myself and Bernie all great friends.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: That was a very ambitious project, and for many of
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: us who've been around the overland space for a long time,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the ent deckers were kind of this mystical vehicle because
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: they were so rare and there was there was so
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: much thought that went into him, like a degree of
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: finish that you'd never see in a typical wagon. The
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: way that because how many how many leaders of fuel
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: did you have on board?
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: If I remember, we had close to two hundred and
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: twenty two hundred and thirty liters somewhere around there. We
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: had one hundred and twenty five liters of water. Everything
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: stored very low down, so we had a big, good
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: center of gravity. We just lined all the inside. All
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: was done here at front Runner. Yeah, okay, we designed
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: all the vehicles here and then we had them built
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: by Unicat in Germany because there was Swiss registered vehicles.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: We couldn't bring him into South Africa sure, because the
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: left hand drive was not allowed and we could only
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: buy it in left hand drive. I try to buy
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: some right.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Hand drive, I see. And you even had two fridges,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: if I remember it.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Two National lunar fridges we had at the time, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: in each vehicle one d trease, one fridge forty eaters
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: each and we had the top ten of Marginina that stage,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: and that was the vehicle.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they really worked, they really functioned well. So
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: when we flew into Kenya, I remember we went to
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: this remote runway and this was another hilarious story. It's
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: amazing these stories that come up in my travels with you.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: But we were flying on a Cessna caravan and we
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: land in this remote runway in Kenya, and it turns
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: out that the plane we were flying on you used
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: to own.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Actually that what happened was on the way up I
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: sold the plane. I had a Sais in a caravan
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: for a while. I sold it. I never knew who
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: the owner was. All I knew the money arrived in
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: the bank and it went up to Kenya that I
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: didn't know, but where or how or why for? And
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: I remembered there was some guy up there in Kenya neport.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: And when we were taking the Unimog on his first
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: trip up to Ethiopiatna New Kid we passed this runway,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: the New Key runway, and I saw my plane because
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: it had an elephant called Shamu, one of the big
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: great elephants of the Kruger Park on the tail. Okay,
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: a picture of it then green and gold. And I said, hey,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: hang on, let's go in there. I want to see
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: who where this plane is. So I walked in and
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I saw. You know, it's the question, where's the owner
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: of the plane? They said, no, it's in the hangar.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: They're fixing some engine on an aircraft. So I went
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: in and I met and I said, Hi, are you
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: the owner? He said yes. I said, I'm standing illman
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: from cele Africa. Oh that's your plane, thought, and that
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: was Jamie.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: What a nice guy.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: And since then we'd be friends for many many years
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: going forward. And we left our cars there. He came down. Heah,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: we see often right. He runs a thing called Tropic Air.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And he runs he runs flights back and forth from
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Nairobi to.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Get He does a lot of helicopter work up north
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: there and he runs a charter business as well.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: AMZ same time. Yeah, what a nice guy he was.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And he helped us with some of our route planning.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: And the Roberts family is a great family in northern Kenya.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very it was very fun to meet them.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And again, just how crazy that story is that that's
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: where your your plane was. And then we we left
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: from there and we and we drove across and into Uganda, which.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Was just magic. Was that your first time to Uganda?
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: No, the second time to Uganda, not going as far
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: north as we entered to kiped Okay, And that was
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the first time I've been at far north, but I've
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: been in the earlier. I've been into the part of
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: end of Juganada. Yeah.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And we had an amazing time in Pidevo at the
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: at the game reserve up in the north where we were.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It was so rare to be able to go into
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a game park and just wild camp where there was
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: no fences, nothing, I mean, we were just it was
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: just us out in the bush, you know.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And and that was so interesting.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: We had that really sweet guy with us, the one
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: of the one of the park rangers, and he had
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: an AK forty seven. Yeah, and I remember asking him,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I said, when's the last time you shot that gun?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: And he says, well, when they when they gave.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: It to me ten years ago, you know, so and
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: he was the one that was gonna that was gonna
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: protect us.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: We were close to the Sudanese border.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: That's right. In fact, we ended up going into South Sudan.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the road I knew led into there for a
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: little while, that's right.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: We got to go into the desert a little bit,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: which was funny. We saw those you know, they were
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: clearly you know, bringing things illegally across the border.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: That was really interesting.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, and given where I'm at with my trip
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: right now, I sure wish.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I could still get into Sudan. It's not possible.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: All right, at this moment. It looks like real war
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: break now. It's great shame. A great country, Yeah.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Beautiful country.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: When you look back on the vehicles that you've built,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: talk about the things around the ND deck or any
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: of the other vehicles. What are some of the core
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: elements that you try to look at when you prepare
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: a vehicle for overland travel.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Carry as little as possible, as light as possible. You
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: do need the range if you've can across long distances.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think we had a range of just
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: on eighteen hundred kilometers vehicle in the desert. I think
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: for one trip we did through Algeria that we crossed,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: there was a stretch of one thousand, two hundred. We
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: didn't quite make it. We had to take four vehicles
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: and we had to take we set one forward, took
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: the fuel out of others to send the one to
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: go and fetchfield to bring back for us to get
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: to the next Sure.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, so how close did you get? Within thirty forty kilometers?
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: About one hundred and four or the desert is hard going,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: very hard to judge's going to.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Use heavy cars? Exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So you find that keeping the vehicle simple light. You've
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: always really liked the Gland of Organs. What about the
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: g Wagon do you find that you like the most.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: It's a very robust vehicle. It's hard to break the
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: modern ones like the Decca too much electronics. Unfortunately, not
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: much you can do about it. But you had to
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: learn how to reset and what to do. And we
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: had the Mercedes units to to actually find the faults
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: and remember that trying to fix and do. But you know,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: they'd never let us down. We've always driven them out,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter what happened, we've driven them home.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I remember, I've never been stuck.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Actually, I'm very lucky touch Wood that I've never had
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: to tell a vehicle home. I've always managed to drive
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: home well.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And even when we were on that trip in Kenya
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and Uganda, we I think we lost the what was it,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the twelve oult alternator on Alex cross car and then
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: we had to we had to run cables out through
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: the window.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: And get draw volts back into the d.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And the battery, the batteries were boiling.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: You made it home, you did made it amazing.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing and one of my favorite stories. And I
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: actually love it when your wife Gilly tells the story.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: But it was when I think you were either first
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: married or just praid or we were married actually, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: you drove to Moun from Johannesburg and you, I mean,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: how many days were you driving in the water.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Well, we drove from Johannesburg up to Kasani, Okay, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: then in December and the Bombabi Depression was fully underwater.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Never been up there before. No GPS's or anything like
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: that in those days, no radio communication thing. Just the
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: land rover went ten and we drove up there in
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: the late sixties, got to Kasani and I said Wow,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: the compass says there's the direction to mount. And I
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: had an aeronautical map with numbers on. Didn't quite understand
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: it properly. I thought of them must be religious or something.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: They don't put the names there, just put a number. Anyway,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: we drove and drove and we drove out of Kasani.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: We were in the water for five days, lost, driving
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: around on hunting tracks that you can see in the
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: order Sure, and eventually found a beacon underwater and took
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: a jar so I could see what the number was
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: on the beacon and went thunder, had a look at
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: the number and then found it on the map, and
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: then took a compass heading and took a sext and
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: reading on the evening and found my way down to Mount.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: It's just a I mean I love hearing stories like that,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: and the ones recently that I had with Tom Sheppard
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: out of the UK, before GPS and before satellite communication
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and all of that. I mean, it was such another
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: level of adventure.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean if you missed Mount about two or
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: three kilometers each side, you were back in the bends. Yeah,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: So that was it and the only place it was
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: fuel was Mount.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: In those days and mount consisted of Riley's garage which
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: was a hotel as well the Riley Hotel. There we
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: got fuel and it must have been ten or twenty
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: hats in nine in the sixteen. Yeah, late in the sixties.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Amazing and now it's quite a thriving one.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: That's unbelievable. What's happened at tar Run where it's big
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: jets come flying in.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: They do, they do well. It's such an incredible part
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: of the world. I mean it is. It seems to
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: me a lot like the Garden of Eden.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: I mean it's city after me, it is the Garden
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: of Eden. Yeah, the Okavongo Swamps is the Garden of Eden.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: There's no it's.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: There's some some photographs I've taken in the setting sun
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: when you I mean the giraffe are drinking and the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: hippo or I mean, it's just unbelievable.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: We cand so much day wild camping.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Years used to just camp and come drive around in
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: all the parks there. Yeah, it was very open in
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: those plays. Today that close the lot control and sturstay
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: and stuff. But in the early years there was.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Noment in all of your travels. If I remember, you've
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: done the length of the America's and rally vehicles you've done.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: You did a trip from all the way up to
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Alaska in a rally vehicle too.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, we did. London to Mexico was one trip, and
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: then we did Panama Alaska from Panama all the way
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: through on a rally. Cause we did London, Sydney.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And London Singapore. He did at one point to.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: No London Sydney. That was the one, the second one
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: when we crashed, that was the last one. We did
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: one before that before all in classic cause the old
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: France is a genius at the old Porsches and we
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: had a lot of fun.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you and I just went the other day and
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: we got to go to a Porsche club here in
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: South Africa and take a look at those vehicles and
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I could see that they still bring a sparkle to
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: your eyes.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, so fantastic, all three five sixes in the
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: early years.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so fantastic.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: One of the things that's that I wanted to talk
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to you about because I think it helps those that
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: are listening, is is you've also designed a lot of
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: products for your own travels. You built them for your
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: own needs.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: That's out started.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what were some of the things that you learned
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: through that process? Talk about some of the basics of
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: those products that you felt really made a difference.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Well. Started off was in the first g wagon that
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: I had, the land rover. We never it was a
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: one ten. There were only two of us struggling. We
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: never had a roof rack or anything managed to fit
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: everything inside. There was no rooftop tens that in those
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: days we should sleep inside the back of the vehicle
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: up in the north otherwise camp on the ground. But
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: the thing was then the first Glendowogen came out to
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: the borders. Was a short wheel base three hundred d
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: no power, yeah, very small, very power. Anyway, that was
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: the vehicle and we had a roof wreck from Germany
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: on it from the factory and the first big bump
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: of dip in a river bed, the roof rack landed
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: on the bonnet and that was my first thoughts to
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: get it going, to.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Build a proper roof.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: Ract, to build a proper roofrac And actually that's where
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I found front Runner, which was a very small company
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: that belonged to Safari Center in South Africa. There was
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: a guy at Off here that was making roof racks
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: welded aluminium roufrax. I came to him and I said, well,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: can you build me a roofrac. I wanted it like
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: this and like that, okay, and he said fine, and
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: he built me the roofrac. And then while we were busy,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: he said, well, the company's got problems and a need money.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: So I bought the company. I just retired out of
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: a public company that I was involved in and I
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: was fifty two at the stage. I bought front Runner
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: in two thousand Batu company and so made a couple
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: of worlded together roof racks. So I bought that, took
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: the company over or the assets started. Took two of
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: my ex employees from the Baltics group that didn't want
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: to work there anymore. They wanted to join me, and
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: we started front Runner, and slowly but surely we built
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: all the product line based around the roof rack to
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: start with, who proceed to becoming quite popular at the time. Sure,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: and then we developed the slim line too, which was
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: a non welded roofrac that you could pack smaller for
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the American market. And we had a big learning lesson
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: how to pack and what to do to market in
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: the United States, how the online business starts to work
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: with Tina and Dave and Rene all of us together,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: my two daughters and my son in law, and we
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: managed to get it all going.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you did.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: It's been a product that people now recognize that people
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: go out of their way to purchase because it does
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a good job.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I think it does a good job. It's a very
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: strong wreck. The members the slats as we call them,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: run from east to west on the vehicle. Most other
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: roofracts run north to south. But see other competitors now
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: making copying us. Okay, everybody before that said it wouldn't work,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: but it does work and makes a much stronger wreck
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: from the most recks well.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And the one thing that I like about it is
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: that it can be configured so it's possible to like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: if you have a sunroof, you can remove those slats
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: correct directly over the sunroof so you can stand up
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: inside the vehicle.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: If you're in a game park or whatever. There's there's
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: options to it.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: It's very flexible in it in the way it's done.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: Just front Runder has just launched a van wreck Now
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: that's fully configurable, so you can move the sleds independently
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: to have all the hatches and the air conditioning on
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: top of the face.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Just launched that. So I think that's going to be
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: a great success.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they have been. I mean, you can definitely
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: see how popular the front Runner racks are around the world. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Well, when you're traveling and going a ferry going across
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: to Africa, just look across the top. You see hundreds
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: of wrecks.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: You you do, you really really do.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: You also have a love for motorcycles and you've done
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: some great trips on motorcycle.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Was to what's your what's your favorite bike that you
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: like to.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Ride at the moment, it's a GS twelve fifty. I
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: was trying and keep up to date with that. But
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I started on, as I said, the Gorillas, and then
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: moved to the Huskavannas, the Micos, the scrambler type sure,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: and juro Bikes Africa Twins. I had all of them
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: on the way. Okay, in the early years, I had
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: a Triumph and I had an Autumn.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I think you even told me that you
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: had a black.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Shadow, right Yeah, at at one stage incredible.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I mean these are these are motorcycles.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Everything I never sold it of would have a lot
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: of a lot of value products.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: That I had.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable, I mean just I mean that old Norton would
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: have been incredible.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: But it's also a black black held black shadow.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: That's another story. That's just such a rare moment there was.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: It was Square four. There were all those old bikes.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: There was a thing called a munch with the NSU
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: motor we went through all those bikes together. I had
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: some good bike friends in South Africa. We used to
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: write a lot when we were younger. We used to
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: write to Durbin in the middle of the night. How
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: we did it but hardly a head lampers or like
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: a candle in front, but there was no traffic. And yeah,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: we used to go for five hours to Durbin all
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: the way, no goggles, no helmet, T shirt, jeans. That was.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Try to trying to be Steve McQueen.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of us have wanted to
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: be Steve McQueen for sure.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Wow, you've seen a lot of growth in the overland industry.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: You've seen it explode in the last twenty years since
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: you started your ownership or front runner, What is some
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: advice that you can give to young travelers, new travelers
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: in the overland space that are looking for advice from
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: someone who's been around the world like you have. What
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: are some pieces of advice that you would give them
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: if you were sitting down with them.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: The most important advice is go around the mountain, not
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: over the mountain. Okay, if you can look after your
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: vehicle right, keep it as light as possible. Whatever you do,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: don't use on one trip, lead behind and take it
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: on an extrap There's a lot of good vehicles around.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: You can make some nice bolts. Depending where you're going
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: and what you're doing. Yeah, drive carefully, you know. Or
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: throat is If you have an accident and you're on
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: your own, you can be in the middle of nowhere.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: There's nobody to rescue or anything, so you have to
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: keep that in mind in a big way. Today a
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: little better. You can have a little spot meter that
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: you can send some signals out, or a garment or
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: a satellite phone. So it's not as bad as it
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: used to be, sure, but that's those are the.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Things That's what I noticed when I traveled with you guys,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: is you're all really excellent drivers.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you drive slow because you don't drive.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: I think we drive quite slow compared to rally.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you you drive with purpose. But there's also
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of precision in the driving. And I was
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: impressed by that.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I'm oftentimes surprised how how often people will be driving
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: internationally distracted.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: They'll be on their phone, or they'll be, you know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: not paying attention. You cannot do that.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: You have a kind of services.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're and plus the person that's in the passenger
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: seat is relying on you to make good choices.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Correct and he sort of watch out for you as well.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: So you have to be working as a team, and
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: the driver has to take responsibility that this is my
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: job for the next two hours, three hours however long
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: until you swap out, and I'm going to pay attention.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be on my phone, I'm not
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: going to be distracted. I'm gonna I'm not going to
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: be tired, you know, and making sure that. But that
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: was I was really impressed by that. With Franz and
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: you and Alex just really experienced drivers and you guys drove.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: And another very big thing from a safety point of view,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: don't drive at night. Yeah not not not in the wild.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many things that could come up.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: There's animals, animals, and that that's been Dona dangerous times
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: as well because animals are crossing, sure moving. So those
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: are the times you have to.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Became absolutely absolutely.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Have you had any any unusual encounters with animals and.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Half I had on the one galland of bog and
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I had a koodoo across something front of us at dusk.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: We hit that and the horn wind you came. Kudoo
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: came through the windscreen, but the horn went and the
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: roof above my head through.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I remember so that that same Glandavog and this was
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: this was in twenty ten.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: You let me borrow that.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Car, that's a two thirty.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: It was a two thirty and I was going to
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: take it up through Lusutu and you were, you were
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: walking me around the vehicle. It's a very simple vehicle
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and you said, oh, that hole in the room is
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: from a coupding board. Yeah, and of course the vehicle
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: was flowless even through Lusutu.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I mean it was it wasn't a new vehicle.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: We drove that from the accident happened just outside Wenki
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Game Reserve up in Zimbabwe, and we drove all the
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: way home without the windscreen.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: And now you bring a wind screen with you.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: I noticed normally make a three the beauty of Agelena
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: organ theres a flat windscreen. So we've had a piece
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: of polycarbonate cut out exactly the same dimensions if you
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: can actually pit.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And if I remember another story that you've told me,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: is something broke out a side window.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: On the vehicle.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was in Botswana last ya oosta. Yeah,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: and what happened is a truck past us and hit
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: the side window and knocked the window completely out. Or
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: we had the windscreen up top, so we cut the
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: wind screen out. Yeah, and we made it work.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: That's one thing that has always been so impressive about
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: South South Africans. As you make a plan, we make
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: a plan, get it going, and it's gotta be.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It just has to be.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: If you think about hundreds of years ago when your
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: ancestors first sailed to South Africa, think about how hardy
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: those people would have been, how committed, how durable, I
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: mean just the fact that they survive means that their
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: offspring is going to be pretty interesting people.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, even if you see the poor I figs
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: that are coming out of Africa trying to cross into Europe,
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: what they in, what they do, I mean, it's terrifying. Yeah,
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: as the most skilled individuals you'll ever meet.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: That's right, true survivors.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And it was the same with your ancestors too. I
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: mean to get on a wooden boat and to sail
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: down the coast of Africa unbelievable. Yes, And so I
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: find that South Africans are a very very hardy bunch.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: And what they say is a bull markup plant. It
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: means a farmer makes a plan.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's they've got to figure it out. And
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I've seen that and I experienced that in my travels
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: with you in Uganda and Kenya. Anytime we had a problem,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you guys just took out the tools and you started
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: working on the car.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: E can you do that's right? Put it together?
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was an inspiration to me for sure.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about traveling with your family,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: because I think that that's something that we're seeing more
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: and more families traveling together you and your wife have
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: traveled extensively around the world. What have you found helps
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the two of you, Gilly and you travel well together.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: I think we tolerate each other, I mean together fifty ideas. Yeah,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: almost sixty years now, and I think you know, we
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: tolerate each other. And we're a good fit, okay. And
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: the kids are the same, you know, we've we've got
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: quite a close knit family Tinas and now in the
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: States for many years in Asia, and I think you know,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: between the kids, and it's just a way of life. Yeah,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: very enjoyable life and be very blessed.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And what have you found helps when you travel with
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: your kids when you were.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Make them part of it, yeah, make them dig the
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: car out, all those kinds of things.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: And you taught them all how to drive.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I remember being so impressed by the driving
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: skill of Renee and Tina both when I've traveled with
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: them off road.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, prop they're proper drivers.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: They drive, Yeah, they can drive. Still got a little bit.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: To learn, but we all do.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: They haven't done enough mileage, yeah, we.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: All got to get enough mileage under our belt.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And you you are able to work with Renee every
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: day what are some things that you've learned in being
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: able to work with your daughter.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's a close family tie. Now we you know,
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: we work every day together and we control front and
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: at this moment in time together with Keith. Yeah, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: now with our new shareholders to meet it, we'll push forward.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: And now in the corporate world. Okay, once again, I'm
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: back with the thousands of people. Yeah, okay, as employees,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: life comes full circle, rough comes full circle. So we
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: beck at square one again and yeah, we'll see how
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: we handle it. I think it's fine. I think to
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: maybe could be a good fit for front Runner. Yeah,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: going forward, I think we can build something really great together.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: And it must be a blessing to be able to
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: work with your daughter every day.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: That's very nice. Now, that's great stuff. Very close.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: No, I've seen it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: It's always been something that I'm so impressed by, is
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: how close you guys are as a family too.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Well, Stanley, it's been such a joy to have you on.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you the podcast. I consider you a great friend.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for the travels we've been able to
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: do together, and I look for we might even be
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: able to do a trip here in the next month or.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: So, hopefully you get your new vehicle.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Grenadier is still in Grenadier.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: We have to see what that thing can do.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, it will be interesting and maybe we can meet
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: the way we're going on the beginning of August, we're
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: going up north and let's see at the.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Rate we're at the rate we're going, I think we
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: might line up just perfect.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: But we'll find you. That's anything else, we'll find you.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: That's hopefully not No, that's.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Hope, not that. We're gonna keep that bonnet closed on
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the all right, very good, Stanley, thank you again.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: For your time, Thank you for your times.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: All right, and we thank you all for listening, and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: we'll talk to you next time.