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Pastors' Perspective-09/28/26 · Pastors Perspective

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. It's Monday and we
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Speaker 1: are here live in the studio from now till 4
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Speaker 1: o'clock Pacific time. So call in with your questions about
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Speaker 1: the Bible.
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Speaker 1: Uh, the Christian faith, maybe you read something this morning
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Speaker 1: as you were studying the scriptures or you read a
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Speaker 1: devotional or you heard a video on YouTube or something
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Speaker 1: or something your pastor said this past Sunday. Call in,
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Speaker 1: we'd love to talk to you about it. 888-564-6173 is
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Speaker 1: the number. We've got a couple of pastors in the
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Speaker 1: studio to answer those questions. Char Broderson, the lead pastor
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Speaker 1: of Calvary Chapel.
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Speaker 1: Costa Mesa and Mike Chaddock, the senior pastor of Image
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Speaker 1: Church in San Juan Capistrano, both of them here in
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Speaker 1: Orange County, Southern California. Guys, good to see you. What's
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Speaker 1: new to you? Well, it's good to be here. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: missed you guys last week. We're both gone. Yeah, we
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Speaker 1: had a Monday off. Now we're back, refreshed, ready. Where
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Speaker 1: do you sign up for Mondays off? What's that? Where
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Speaker 1: do you sign up for Mondays off? Yeah, I don't know.
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Speaker 1: Where is that?
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Speaker 1: Great question. 888-564-6173 is the number to call. You can
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Speaker 1: also send your questions in online through the Pastor's Perspective
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Speaker 1: Facebook page using Messenger or by DMing us on the
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Speaker 1: pastor's perspective Instagram, or you can go to the pastor's
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Speaker 1: perspective page at Kwave.com, which you can easily get to
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Speaker 1: if you scan that QR code there on Facebook, YouTube,
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Speaker 1: or Instagram, where we're live streaming right now. That'll take
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Speaker 1: you right to the page where you can submit your
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Speaker 1: question and maybe we'll use it.
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Speaker 1: At a later date, but we'd love to hear from
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Speaker 1: you right now till 4 o'clock at 888-564-6173. Let's go
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Speaker 1: right to the phones. Claudia's calling in from Laguna Woods,
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Speaker 1: listening to Kwave. Welcome, Claudia to Pastor's Perspective. Thanks for
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Speaker 1: calling 888-564-6173.
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Speaker 2: Hi, hi. OK, my que, hi, I hope y'all doing good. Um,
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Speaker 2: my question is, I recently heard a pastor say that
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Speaker 2: when we pray that we must speak our prayers out loud,
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Speaker 2: otherwise our prayers may not be heard, and I wanted
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Speaker 2: to know what's, what's your perspective? Does Jesus hear our
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Speaker 2: prayers when we say them just in our minds?
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Speaker 1: Hm, Char, what would you say? Yeah, well, you know what,
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Speaker 1: Jesus actually says these words in Matthew chapter 6. He says,
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Speaker 1: do not be like, you know, the certain religious, uh,
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Speaker 1: individuals or these pagans who babble on because they think
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Speaker 1: they will be heard because of their many words. He says,
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Speaker 1: don't be like them, for your father knows what you need,
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Speaker 1: even before you ask Him. So,
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Speaker 1: And, you know, David says in Psalm 139, before a
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Speaker 1: word is on my tongue, you already know it. And so,
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Speaker 1: you know, just God's comprehensive knowledge of us is something that's, um,
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Speaker 1: stated in scripture and actually celebrated in scripture. And so,
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Speaker 1: you know, I do think I'm not really sure maybe
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Speaker 1: the greater point that this pastor was making, but I
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Speaker 1: don't think it's a biblical point.
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Speaker 1: You know, so I have encouraged some people, you know,
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Speaker 1: sometimes I know in my own praying life, I feel
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Speaker 1: like I'm kind of in my head and I'm kind
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Speaker 1: of going around in circles and I'm not fully, um,
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Speaker 1: clear or articulating what I'm asking for. And so sometimes
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Speaker 1: for me it's helpful to say my prayers out loud
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Speaker 1: in order to articulate them. Sometimes it's helpful for me
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Speaker 1: to say my prayers out loud so that I'm actually, um,
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Speaker 1: I'm hearing them prayed and and can even almost like
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Speaker 1: agree with myself in it or actually say, actually, Lord,
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Speaker 1: I don't think that is what I want, you know, like,
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Speaker 1: now that I'm hearing myself say it, I don't think
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Speaker 1: I do believe that or I think actually I'm going
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Speaker 1: to change my mind on that request or whatever it
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Speaker 1: might be. So I definitely think it can be a
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Speaker 1: helpful tool practically to us just in our communication with God.
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Speaker 1: Um, but biblically, there's no evidence or place in scripture
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Speaker 1: where it says unless you pray out loud, God doesn't
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Speaker 1: hear you, you know, no scripture says he already knows,
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Speaker 1: you know, the secret intents of our heart, even the
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Speaker 1: stuff that we don't actually know that's even there, God
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Speaker 1: knows it.
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Speaker 1: So it's more of a prince, the principle of the thing,
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Speaker 1: and even that in that case it would be an
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Speaker 1: optional principle. It's not something in the same way that
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Speaker 1: we hear pastors say journal your prayers or read your
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Speaker 1: Bible out loud. It's not stuff that has to be done,
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Speaker 1: but it might be a good idea. Sure, yeah, and
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Speaker 1: I do believe that, I mean, the prayers.
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Speaker 1: That, um, the Jewish people prayed, they would pray out loud.
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Speaker 1: That was a very common practice for them. But you
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Speaker 1: even see, you know, in, again, in the Psalter, in
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Speaker 1: the Psalms, you know, that there is, uh, there are
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Speaker 1: silent prayers and there's a recognition that God meets His people,
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Speaker 1: even in the silence or the way that Paul talks about,
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Speaker 1: you know, the Spirit actually intercedes for us with groanings
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Speaker 1: that can't be uttered. Sometimes we don't even have words
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Speaker 1: to describe the deep grief, uh, we feel or
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Speaker 1: Uh, the desire again, like to articulate what we're actually wanting.
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Speaker 1: And again, this, I think, um, encouragement and peace and,
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Speaker 1: and comfort just to know God already knows. Like he
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Speaker 1: knows actually what you want, Mike, even though you don't.
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Speaker 1: You know, he, he knows your fears even though maybe
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Speaker 1: you can't articulate them. Like there's something so reassuring and
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Speaker 1: comforting about to be fully known like that by God.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's interesting, I actually was thinking about that this
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Speaker 1: morning about where Paul says that the spirit intercedes for
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Speaker 1: us with groanings that cannot be uttered, and there's, there's
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Speaker 1: a limit even to our language at times that's what
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Speaker 1: we realized. So I think.
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Speaker 1: It's definitely not true that God can't hear our prayers
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Speaker 1: unless he speaks them again, language gives audible form to
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Speaker 1: to our thoughts, but you could also say it does
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Speaker 1: more than that. It also focuses it as well. So
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Speaker 1: I think um.
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Speaker 1: I, I think God can hear your, your silent prayers, your,
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Speaker 1: your internal prayers that you aren't expressing audibly, yet I
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Speaker 1: find practically for me, most of the time, not always,
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Speaker 1: most of the time I think I'm a little scattered
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Speaker 1: in my thoughts, and I think once I go to
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Speaker 1: articulate them in language, it really concentrates and focuses and
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Speaker 1: crafts and sometimes might even shape the prayer. It might
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Speaker 1: even change a little bit as I'm, as I'm praying
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Speaker 1: because I'm actually thinking through because.
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Speaker 1: I might start off with feelings, impressions, things like that,
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Speaker 1: and as I go to articulate, I go, hey, you know,
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Speaker 1: maybe that's, you know, I know there's the scripture about
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Speaker 1: that and that's, that's not the thing I actually should
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Speaker 1: pray for even though I felt like praying it maybe
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Speaker 1: this is what I should pray for. So I think
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Speaker 1: it's helpful.
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Speaker 1: Uh, to, to pray aloud, um, I think it's interesting
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Speaker 1: on a related note, uh, I think studies have shown
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Speaker 1: most ancient readers when they would read would not read
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Speaker 1: silently either. They would actually read aloud and like you
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Speaker 1: were saying, Char, there's some.
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Speaker 1: There's something about reinforcing it when we're speaking aloud, whether
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Speaker 1: that's reading or whether that's praying. And, and again, does
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Speaker 1: that mean you can't read the Bible silently? No, I
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Speaker 1: think probably most of us do read it silently, uh,
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Speaker 1: but there is actually something in reading it aloud and,
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Speaker 1: and hearing it. So, um, I think it's a valuable practice,
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Speaker 1: but not an exclusive one. And if you're reading out loud,
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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean to read loud like where your neighbors. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: depends on where you are. Yes, yes, that depends too. Claudia,
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Speaker 1: what do you think?
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Speaker 2: I, I agree with you all, um, you know, and
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Speaker 2: there's been times where I've said prayers and like you said,
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Speaker 2: where they're from the heart and I can't even express them,
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Speaker 2: but I know the Lord hears my heart, so, um,
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Speaker 2: I agree with you 100%.
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Speaker 1: So that leads to a question we often get about prayer.
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Speaker 1: Why do we pray? If God already knows our thoughts?
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Speaker 1: He knows what we need. He, what, what's the point?
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Speaker 1: And also, if, if he's not gonna change his mind, if,
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Speaker 1: if this is going to happen, what would you say, Char?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think obviously there's a number of things that
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Speaker 1: we could say on this. And I think I I
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Speaker 1: probably lead with the fact that God, you know, desires
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Speaker 1: relationship with us. Of course, God can accomplish His will
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Speaker 1: all on his own, but he has invited us.
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Speaker 1: uh, to be partners with Him, you know, and the
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Speaker 1: prayer that Jesus taught us to pray is really a
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Speaker 1: prayer of partnership where we're invited into, you know, pursuing God's, um, hallowedness,
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Speaker 1: that his name would be seen holy, His kingdom would come,
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Speaker 1: his will would be done. And then of course, we're
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Speaker 1: invited to bring our need for provision, our need for protection,
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Speaker 1: our need for, um, forgiveness of sin to God, you know,
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Speaker 1: so we're bringing
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Speaker 1: Ourselves into God's world and bringing God into our world.
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Speaker 1: There's really this sense of partnership, this uniting, as the
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Speaker 1: prayer says, of on earth as it is in heaven,
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Speaker 1: this oneness with God in His kingdom. But I heard
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Speaker 1: it articulated a number of years ago and I just thought, wow,
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Speaker 1: like that really resonated for me. But someone is saying,
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Speaker 1: like when you're carrying stuff, um,
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Speaker 1: You know, heavy stuff, um, things that concern you, you know,
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Speaker 1: maybe big picture stuff where it's just particular to you
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Speaker 1: in your situation. Do you want to talk to a
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Speaker 1: stranger about these things where you're having to inform them
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Speaker 1: about every single detail? Oh, well, you don't know my
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Speaker 1: family situation, so let me kind of unpack it for you.
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Speaker 1: He said, no, of course, you want to go and
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Speaker 1: talk to the person that knows you best. And they
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Speaker 1: were saying,
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Speaker 1: You know, the invitation, go talk to your father, he
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Speaker 1: already knows. And that's what Jesus is saying, right, in
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Speaker 1: his kind of um preamble into the Lord's Prayer. Just
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Speaker 1: this reminder, God already knows all these things, and how
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Speaker 1: much more than the invitation to go and talk to
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Speaker 1: the one
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Speaker 1: already knows you completely, already knows your situation. You aren't
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Speaker 1: needing to inform him, but one who knows you, loves you,
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Speaker 1: wills your good. This is the place really where we can,
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Speaker 1: as Peter says, cast our cares upon him and really
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Speaker 1: have that knowledge and confidence that God cares for us.
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Speaker 1: I think that is such a gift that prayer gives us.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's actually I just heard a message
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Speaker 1: on the radio. It wasn't this station, Brian, but, uh,
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Speaker 1: the guy was basically, uh, just reinforcing the idea that
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Speaker 1: prayer is about getting stuff from God and, and I'm
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Speaker 1: not saying that doesn't play a part, but I think
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Speaker 1: getting God is what is greatest about prayer, not getting
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Speaker 1: something from God. He's not just the cosmic Santa Claus that, oh,
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Speaker 1: I come to him when I have a wish list or,
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Speaker 1: you know, and I, I just think.
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Speaker 1: Because really for a lot of people that quit praying,
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Speaker 1: that's probably the reason why is, you know, hey, well,
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Speaker 1: prayer doesn't work. I go, what in the world do
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Speaker 1: you mean it doesn't work? Does friendship not work? You know,
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Speaker 1: does love not work? What do you mean it doesn't work?
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Speaker 1: They look at it as a tool. God is a
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Speaker 1: tool to get something else they want more than God,
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Speaker 1: and I think that is a fundamental problem.
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Speaker 1: Ultimately, if the gospel converts our hearts, then God becomes
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Speaker 1: our greatest good. He is the chief object of our desire,
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Speaker 1: the pearl of great price. I will do anything to
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Speaker 1: get more of God, to be with God. And the
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Speaker 1: more you read the Bible and all the manifold pictures
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Speaker 1: you have of, you know, God is our Father, right,
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Speaker 1: in the Lord's Prayer. But then I, one of my
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Speaker 1: favorite verses in Exodus, and the Lord spake unto Moses
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Speaker 1: face to face as a man speaks with his friend.
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Speaker 1: And there was something that when I would read that
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Speaker 1: would just move me just the, you know, again this
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Speaker 1: is God Almighty, right? Creator of heaven and earth, and,
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Speaker 1: and yet at the same time Moses is speaking face
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Speaker 1: to face like a man speaks with his friend, and
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Speaker 1: I think that's the beauty of prayer. You're communing with
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Speaker 1: the God of scripture who is your father who you
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Speaker 1: can also speak to face to face as, as though
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Speaker 1: a friend and, and I think getting time with God
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Speaker 1: and I, and I know that the analogy is imperfect, but.
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Speaker 1: You know how many of us like it when somebody
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Speaker 1: only comes to us when they need something. Um, again,
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Speaker 1: if we love somebody, we do want them to come
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Speaker 1: to us, right when they have needs, you know, they're sick,
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Speaker 1: they're tired, they, they need some money, whatever it is,
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Speaker 1: of course I want you to come to me, but
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Speaker 1: if that's the only, you never wanna like just talk
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Speaker 1: with me, you never want to spend time with me,
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Speaker 1: it's just give me, give me, gimme.
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Speaker 1: Again, that's just not a real relation that's transactional and
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Speaker 1: we have too many transactional relationships in this life and
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Speaker 1: I think ultimately the goal of all this it's actually
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Speaker 1: is relationship. God is restoring the relationship that was destroyed
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Speaker 1: right through sin through the breach of trust through the
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Speaker 1: violation of that relationship and.
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Speaker 1: In prayer, we're communing with God. So that's, that's number one.
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Speaker 1: And I think that's why even the, the request for
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Speaker 1: daily bread, which I think that's the most natural pray, uh,
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Speaker 1: prayer for us to, to go to, and it's not wrong.
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Speaker 1: But I think the order of the Lord's Prayer matters.
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Speaker 1: I think beginning with God, remembering life is not ultimately
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Speaker 1: about me. It's not ultimately about what I want, which
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Speaker 1: might even be compelling this entire, you know, session of prayer. I'm,
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Speaker 1: I'm only doing it, but then the Lord's Prayer reminds me, hey.
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Speaker 1: I need more than the thing I'm coming to God for.
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Speaker 1: I need more of God. So I think just focusing
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Speaker 1: on relationship, thinking about prayer, the best thing about prayer,
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Speaker 1: which you won't be disappointed, is getting God. If you
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Speaker 1: just want something from God, yes, you'll probably be disappointed
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Speaker 1: at times because as it turns out, even in my
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Speaker 1: own life, God often disagrees with me with what I
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Speaker 1: think I need.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think too there is that aspect, and I
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Speaker 1: feel like we're hitting this in some ways, so I
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Speaker 1: just want to say it kind of on the nose,
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Speaker 1: but that we can also pursue prayer properly for a relationship,
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Speaker 1: make requests and God not answer, and we can be
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Speaker 1: disappointed and we can be hurt. You know, I think
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Speaker 1: about even Jesus, right? Like, Father, if it's possible, let
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Speaker 1: this cup pass from me.
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Speaker 1: Nevertheless, not what I will, but your will be done.
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Speaker 1: I don't think, you know, when Jesus, you know, obviously
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Speaker 1: receives the answer to, no, you're going to the cross,
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Speaker 1: he isn't like, all right, yep, great, cool. But we've
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Speaker 1: got relationships, so I'm good. Like, that was
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Speaker 1: Definitely disappointing, you know, sorrowful unto death is the way
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Speaker 1: that Jesus describes his state. And I think, you know,
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Speaker 1: coming out of a season of loss in our family.
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Speaker 1: I, I feel like I'm in that space where I'm
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Speaker 1: living like, OK, like I have a relationship with God.
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Speaker 1: I go to him with these things. I also make
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Speaker 1: requests and God has not answered those requests, and it hurts. And,
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Speaker 1: and there's a reality to that that I don't think
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Speaker 1: we want to, we don't want to shy away from
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Speaker 1: that we can also be disappointed with God and still
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Speaker 1: be in relationship with God, right? We can use prayer
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Speaker 1: properly as a place of submission to, you know, man, yes,
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Speaker 1: prayer is about relationship with God. It's about
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Speaker 1: Um, accomplishing God's will, and it's also about making our
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Speaker 1: requests to God.
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Speaker 1: And yet
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Speaker 1: You know, we might find that God, you know, even
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Speaker 1: when we're like, I guess like living in the right
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Speaker 1: space of what prayer is supposed to do, we can
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Speaker 1: still be disappointed and, and hurt, and that's OK, you know,
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Speaker 1: like even in our relation, human relationships, we can still
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Speaker 1: have that dynamic. So I just, I think it's just
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Speaker 1: important to hit on that. I think I'm more sensitive
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Speaker 1: to it now just coming out of this. Well, and again,
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Speaker 1: this is why I think like the laments like paying
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Speaker 1: attention to this in scripture, like the picture that came
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Speaker 1: to my mind is John the Baptist was disappointed with Jesus,
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Speaker 1: which is quite.
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Speaker 1: Ironic, right? He's the forerunner. He's the prophet in the wilderness.
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Speaker 1: Makes straight the way of the Lord. Then he gets
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Speaker 1: locked up and actually sends his own disciples. Uh, are
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Speaker 1: you the one we're waiting for, or should we look
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Speaker 1: for another? Imagine just like linger on those words. What
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Speaker 1: kind of disillusion? I mean, John was there baptizing him.
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Speaker 1: The heavens were open. The voice of God declaring, this
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Speaker 1: is my son and who well pleased the Spirit is,
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Speaker 1: I mean, shouldn't he have known, but the experience of
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Speaker 1: disappointment can be.
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Speaker 1: So powerful in the experience that we go, is it you, Lord,
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Speaker 1: and the laments are there. But I think again using
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Speaker 1: the analogy of, of marriage, like, are you gonna be
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Speaker 1: disappointed with your spouse at times? Are you gonna be hurt?
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Speaker 1: Do you say I'm not talking to you anymore? Some
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Speaker 1: people do that. That's actually how they manage the pain.
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Speaker 1: They go, look, I'm not gonna divorce you. I think
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Speaker 1: that'd be wrong. God, I'm not gonna like become not
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Speaker 1: a Christian anymore.
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Speaker 1: But I am gonna stop talking to you because it
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Speaker 1: hurts too much and that is a way, and I
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Speaker 1: understand that and I'm not like beating people up for
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Speaker 1: doing that. I mean, I've probably had my own seasons
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Speaker 1: where like God greatly, greatly hurt me and disappointed me
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Speaker 1: and or, or I should say this, that was my
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Speaker 1: felt experience, right? I believe God of all the earth
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Speaker 1: did right. Uh, I trust His sovereign will, but did
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Speaker 1: I feel that way? Was it easy? Absolutely not. It
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Speaker 1: made zero sense to me, seemed wrong to me.
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Speaker 1: Um, and I think the safest thing I could do
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Speaker 1: was tell God about it, and I think it's unfortunate. I,
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Speaker 1: I heard, you know, periodically over the years, more when
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Speaker 1: I was growing up, like you can't talk to God
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Speaker 1: that way. It would be disrespectful. Don't, don't tell God
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Speaker 1: you're angry at Him or you're disappointed or it's wrong.
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Speaker 1: It's a lack of faith if you're angry at God
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Speaker 1: or whatever, but I'm like.
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Speaker 1: The more I read God's own word, I realize that's
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Speaker 1: not true. The saints have encountered this. David has encountered this,
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Speaker 1: and they're crying out, God, why? Why, you know, Jesus,
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Speaker 1: why have you forsaken me? David, why am I crying
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Speaker 1: all night long? You know, I'm drowning in tears. Tears
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Speaker 1: are my only food. I'm not eating anything else. I
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Speaker 1: have a diet of tears. That's all I'm eating right
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Speaker 1: now because I'm so hurt. I'm so overwhelmed, and you
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Speaker 1: seemingly are doing nothing.
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Speaker 1: And we're reminded, hey, this is a part of the
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Speaker 1: road that we're on, but what we do know is
17:33
Speaker 1: not to give up even the disappointment we can take
17:36
Speaker 1: to God in prayer.
17:38
Speaker 1: We often close our prayers with in Jesus' name, amen,
17:41
Speaker 1: but
17:43
Speaker 1: Should we close them more often with, nevertheless, not my
17:47
Speaker 1: will but thine, because those are hard words to say,
17:52
Speaker 1: the in Jesus' name, amen part, that's like, oh, yes,
17:55
Speaker 1: that we've been taught to end our prayers that way,
17:58
Speaker 1: but to take it a step further and to realize
18:01
Speaker 1: that we're making our petition known, but yeah, I think
18:05
Speaker 1: if we understand the phrase in the name of Jesus,
18:09
Speaker 1: then we will actually understand.
18:11
Speaker 1: I think it's actually synonymous with praying to nevertheless, your will,
18:15
Speaker 1: because we're saying, Lord, all of these things bring them
18:18
Speaker 1: into alignment with the name of Jesus, the person of Jesus,
18:21
Speaker 1: the career of Jesus, the mission of Jesus, the glory
18:23
Speaker 1: of Jesus, you know, sometimes we're just signing off is
18:26
Speaker 1: like the way we think of sincerely, yeah. So, but yeah,
18:30
Speaker 1: I think that that is what we're asking all, you know,
18:33
Speaker 1: for the sake of his name.
18:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's actually implied in the first line
18:39
Speaker 1: when you say our Father, who our name in the scripture,
18:42
Speaker 1: we have no right to call God our Father but
18:45
Speaker 1: through the Son Jesus Christ, you know, what is it,
18:48
Speaker 1: John 1:12, to them He gave the right to be.
18:52
Speaker 1: Called sons of God, we don't have the right naturally
18:55
Speaker 1: we only have the right through Jesus so it's in Jesus'
18:58
Speaker 1: name we're able to rightly call on God as our
19:01
Speaker 1: father and it's funny because I, I just listened to
19:04
Speaker 1: another local, uh, pastor and he was rebuking the congregation
19:11
Speaker 1: for praying with doubt and by praying with doubt he meant, um,
19:15
Speaker 1: but Lord if it's not your will and I'm like wow.
19:20
Speaker 1: I could have sworn I heard somebody pray that and
19:22
Speaker 1: I thought it was in the Bible and oh wait,
19:24
Speaker 1: it's Jesus. I'm like, well, you know what, if the
19:28
Speaker 1: perfect model of prayer is Jesus, which I'm gonna go
19:31
Speaker 1: ahead and say it is, um, he prayed that way
19:34
Speaker 1: he modeled it for us nevertheless, not my will, but
19:38
Speaker 1: thy will be done. That is not a lack of faith. I've,
19:41
Speaker 1: I've had people say that over the years and, and
19:44
Speaker 1: this can be profoundly hurtful, right? Like I, I think
19:47
Speaker 1: one time it came up.
19:48
Speaker 1: I was praying for my very sick daughter.
19:51
Speaker 1: And, and I prayed, Lord, you know, I, you know,
19:54
Speaker 1: prayed for healing and, you know, whether it's supernaturally, I
19:57
Speaker 1: believe in that, I believe that's possible, whether it's through
19:59
Speaker 1: the natural processes, which I don't take for granted because
20:01
Speaker 1: doctors can make mistakes all the time. So that's not
20:04
Speaker 1: a cop-out in my opinion, uh, but praying for that,
20:07
Speaker 1: and then I also prayed nevertheless, not.
20:09
Speaker 1: My will, but I will be done just acknowledging I'm
20:11
Speaker 1: not God. I don't, I'm not omniscient. I don't know everything.
20:13
Speaker 1: I don't see all the ends and I'm just trusting and,
20:16
Speaker 1: and the guy's like that's not praying authoritatively. You can't
20:19
Speaker 1: have any doubt, you can't leave any escape valve, uh,
20:22
Speaker 1: for God. You gotta like force God.
20:24
Speaker 1: To do what you say, and I'm like that is
20:26
Speaker 1: such a bizarre, bizarre thought and, and bizarre in the
20:30
Speaker 1: sense of it does not fit scripture and the Lord
20:33
Speaker 1: did not model that Himself. Yeah, I think probably the
20:36
Speaker 1: more biblical idea around this would be contending prayer.
20:40
Speaker 1: Right? And I, and I've really appreciated some of the
20:42
Speaker 1: ways that that's been articulated where, OK, we're taking, you know,
20:45
Speaker 1: what God has said, like, these are the things that
20:48
Speaker 1: glorify me. Like this is what I want. Again, it's
20:50
Speaker 1: the Lord's prayer, right? OK, Lord, you said this is
20:53
Speaker 1: what you want to do, do that, right? So we're
20:56
Speaker 1: calling God to act, you know, like you think about
20:58
Speaker 1: some of the psalms, like, rise up, O Lord, revive
21:01
Speaker 1: us again, O Lord, you know, so.
21:03
Speaker 1: Um, you know, we're asking God to do the things
21:05
Speaker 1: that he has already articulated in His word are part
21:08
Speaker 1: of His will, part of his plan. Your kingdom, come. OK,
21:11
Speaker 1: we can pray that and we can contend for that.
21:14
Speaker 1: And I think we make that mistake when we think, oh,
21:16
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, yeah, these magic words that we
21:18
Speaker 1: have to say and this incantation, and if we don't, God,
21:20
Speaker 1: you know, well, you didn't actually finish that correctly, so
21:23
Speaker 1: I'm not listening. I'm not going to do that. It's just, it,
21:25
Speaker 1: it's such a misrepresentation of who God is and, um,
21:30
Speaker 1: you know, that somehow he's withholding from us.
21:32
Speaker 1: And, uh, you know, just, just outside of our grasp enough.
21:37
Speaker 1: So if we just tried a little bit harder, got
21:39
Speaker 1: a few more people praying, we're a little bit more authoritative,
21:42
Speaker 1: then we'd be heard. And it's just like, you know,
21:43
Speaker 1: I always go back to that story. And I think
21:46
Speaker 1: Jesus is actually, I think that this is what he's
21:49
Speaker 1: basing some of this stuff on in
21:51
Speaker 1: Uh, the Sermon on the Mount. But I always go
21:53
Speaker 1: back to that story of Elijah with the prophets of
21:56
Speaker 1: Baalal because it's just so fascinating to think about how,
21:59
Speaker 1: you know, they're doing all of this stuff. They're crying
22:02
Speaker 1: and they're doing their, you know, rituals and all these things.
22:04
Speaker 1: They're cutting themselves and they're showing all of their passion
22:07
Speaker 1: and all of their angst and their, you know, their.
22:11
Speaker 1: The mouths are dry and their throat, their throats are sore.
22:14
Speaker 1: They just like put themselves out there completely. Nobody heard,
22:19
Speaker 1: nobody answered. And Elijah, his thing is so, his prayer
22:23
Speaker 1: is so simple and it's so confident. Lord, God of
22:27
Speaker 1: our fathers, let it be known, you are God. Boom, right?
22:31
Speaker 1: Like the fire of God comes down from them, but
22:33
Speaker 1: you just think about the
22:36
Speaker 1: Uh, the relational, um, words that are used there and
22:40
Speaker 1: just the confidence that Elijah had, but the simplicity of
22:43
Speaker 1: that prayer and the confidence that God will answer. And
22:45
Speaker 1: it's just like, I think that that's what Jesus is
22:48
Speaker 1: telling us again, like he's reiterating this in the Sermon
22:50
Speaker 1: on the Mount. Like, man, God already knows, he sees everything,
22:54
Speaker 1: he already hears. Bring your requests to Him and trust.
22:58
Speaker 1: Like he's going to bring about his will on earth
23:00
Speaker 1: as it is in heaven.
23:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, James talks about the effective righteous prayer of a
23:06
Speaker 1: man avails much and what is effective prayer. It's, it's
23:09
Speaker 1: praying according to God's word, right? So if God's own
23:12
Speaker 1: word says it, and again it's not like we're reminding
23:14
Speaker 1: God when we say, hey God, you said that, well,
23:16
Speaker 1: and God's like, Oh yeah, thanks. I forgot. I totally,
23:19
Speaker 1: I needed you to remind me. So I, I think again,
23:23
Speaker 1: what is it doing? It's, it's teaching us.
23:26
Speaker 1: To align our will with the will of God, right?
23:28
Speaker 1: It's not getting God to do our will. It's aligning
23:31
Speaker 1: our will with the will of God. I think the
23:34
Speaker 1: idea that
23:36
Speaker 1: Apparently it's fairly pervasive out there, this idea of if
23:40
Speaker 1: you leave any room for the fact you don't know everything,
23:44
Speaker 1: you actually don't know what's best for you many times
23:48
Speaker 1: like we feel like we do. I certainly do, um,
23:51
Speaker 1: but it obviously it's like the older I get, the
23:54
Speaker 1: more I realized I've been wrong about what I absolutely needed,
23:58
Speaker 1: what I needed, what I, I'm, I'm glad to be
24:00
Speaker 1: honest with you and not everyone.
24:02
Speaker 1: But a number of things in life I prayed for.
24:05
Speaker 1: Thank God he did not do what I asked him
24:07
Speaker 1: to do. Uh, I dodged a bullet, you know, so
24:10
Speaker 1: I just think there's humility, right? Like I think that's
24:13
Speaker 1: what it is. It's not a lack of faith. It's
24:15
Speaker 1: not doubt. I think it's humility. It's acknowledging ultimately in
24:18
Speaker 1: my humanity, and I think Jesus, right, sinless Son of God,
24:22
Speaker 1: in our humanity, we can be so overwhelmed, we're just like, I, I,
24:26
Speaker 1: this is unbearable is what we're saying.
24:28
Speaker 1: And I just need a way out of it, but
24:30
Speaker 1: she's like, hey, even though this is unbearable, and it's just,
24:32
Speaker 1: I need a way, yet I even then when it's
24:36
Speaker 1: unbearable and I need a way out of it, I
24:39
Speaker 1: yield to the will of God. That is the ultimate
24:41
Speaker 1: just surrender of faith, actually. It's not the opposite of faith.
24:44
Speaker 1: It is the quintessence of faith.
24:48
Speaker 1: Good conversation on prayer. We can continue talking about prayer
24:52
Speaker 1: or whatever you wanna talk about. 888-564-6173 is our number. 888-564-6173.
25:00
Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube, by the way, right now,
25:01
Speaker 1: leave a comment down there somewhere we read all those comments,
25:04
Speaker 1: we'd love to, but, uh, call in if you've got
25:07
Speaker 1: a question for us at 888-564-6173. Let's go to San Diego.
25:12
Speaker 1: Here is Sarafina. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
25:16
Speaker 2: Hi pastors, I hope you're having a good day. You too. Um,
25:21
Speaker 2: thank you. Um, I just have a question. I'm reading, um,
25:26
Speaker 2: Prophecy Watchers about Noah's Ark and the Lost cities of Nephilim.
25:31
Speaker 2: And I was just wondering, do you think it's really
25:35
Speaker 2: like millions and trillions of years ago, like they say for,
25:40
Speaker 2: you know, dinosaurs, and it says there were gigantic examples
25:44
Speaker 2: of God's creativity, dragonflies with 5-foot wingspans, 18-inch centipedes, 13-foot turtles,
25:53
Speaker 2: 650 pound oyster birds that stand 13 ft tall.
25:59
Speaker 2: Um, back in like 13 million years ago. Now, do
26:03
Speaker 2: you think that's accurate about millions of years ago, or
26:08
Speaker 2: do you think the Earth is actually on a timeline
26:10
Speaker 2: like the Jews calendar, which is 5787, and it also
26:16
Speaker 2: said that, um,
26:20
Speaker 2: Fallen angels interacted with humanity then, and giants inhabited the earth. Um,
26:27
Speaker 2: genetic corruption spread throughout God's creation, and great civilizations rose
26:33
Speaker 2: and flourished.
26:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lost world beneath our oceans too
26:40
Speaker 2: and so just comment about all these things maybe.
26:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, um, it's always a challenge when we're taking
26:49
Speaker 1: special revelation, which is what the Bible is, and then
26:52
Speaker 1: general revelation, which is, you know, the sciences and, you know,
26:57
Speaker 1: whether that's history outside the Bible, whether that's science outside
27:01
Speaker 1: the Bible, whatever it is, and then I, I think
27:04
Speaker 1: the problem is sometimes people try to map them directly
27:07
Speaker 1: onto each other. They're, they're simply not the same.
27:10
Speaker 1: Um, for example, I would say the Bible is infallible
27:14
Speaker 1: and inerrant, and yet at the same time it is
27:16
Speaker 1: not using scientific language, it just isn't. It's using ancient language,
27:21
Speaker 1: it's using Hebrew, it's using a little bit of Aramaic,
27:23
Speaker 1: and it's using Greek and.
27:25
Speaker 1: It's seeking to communicate a worldview. It is not doing
27:29
Speaker 1: what we expect things to be done post Isaac Newton,
27:33
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that's where a lot of debate,
27:35
Speaker 1: to be honest, between both Christians and non-Christians, they're actually
27:39
Speaker 1: arguing from a modern scientific worldview, and they're disagreeing about
27:43
Speaker 1: the science, but they're both actually arguing from a modern paradigm,
27:47
Speaker 1: then they're projecting it back onto the Bible, which is
27:50
Speaker 1: not the view, and in either case, it's not the,
27:52
Speaker 1: the view there.
27:54
Speaker 1: Um, I think, you know, there's a philosopher by the
27:57
Speaker 1: name of Alvin Plantiga, and he wrote a book called, uh,
28:00
Speaker 1: Faith and Science Where the Conflict Really Lies, and so
28:04
Speaker 1: much of these debates, uh, again, and by the way,
28:07
Speaker 1: the specifics of your, your question matter, but what I'm
28:09
Speaker 1: doing is fundamentally how we come at this question, I
28:13
Speaker 1: find there is mass confusion even amongst, you know, well-meaning
28:17
Speaker 1: believers and.
28:18
Speaker 1: Things like that and, and believers, by the way, disagree with,
28:21
Speaker 1: with each other on this and, and part of it
28:23
Speaker 1: is we're not even acknowledging that it's the fundamental perspective.
28:26
Speaker 1: So for example, scripture says Moses wrote the Pentateuch, and again, um,
28:32
Speaker 1: so when Moses was writing it, was he trying to
28:37
Speaker 1: tell the Israelites coming out of Egypt how old the
28:40
Speaker 1: earth was?
28:42
Speaker 1: Nobody was arguing about how old the earth was in,
28:45
Speaker 1: in the time of. Nobody, nobody cared. That is a
28:48
Speaker 1: modern scientific concern. How old is it? They were arguing
28:52
Speaker 1: about who made the world, what consists of deity. Is
28:57
Speaker 1: deity things in the world? Is the sun god, like
29:01
Speaker 1: the Egyptians, where, by the way, we just came from,
29:04
Speaker 1: so we should expect they've been indoctrinated by Egypt, so
29:07
Speaker 1: keep that in mind.
29:08
Speaker 1: Moses is writing to the slave people coming out of Egypt.
29:11
Speaker 1: They've been told the world consists of these various gods
29:15
Speaker 1: who are part of creation, born out of war and
29:18
Speaker 1: violence and everything else, and Moses is giving them a
29:20
Speaker 1: different picture of creation and relationship. That's his primary purpose.
29:26
Speaker 1: We can extrapolate from that to modern concerns today with science,
29:30
Speaker 1: but we have to be very careful. We're not reading
29:32
Speaker 1: all of that into the text. And, uh, when we
29:34
Speaker 1: come back, I don't know, Char, if you have.
29:36
Speaker 1: Anything to add to that. Maybe we can talk about
29:38
Speaker 1: a few of the specifics as well. Sarafina, thank you
29:41
Speaker 1: so much for your phone call on Pastor's perspective. Gonna
29:44
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll
29:48
Speaker 1: Keep hearing your questions for Char and Mike. 888-564-6173 is
29:53
Speaker 1: our number. That's 888-564-6173.
30:16
Speaker 1: All right, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the
30:21
Speaker 1: number to call Pastors Char Broderson and Mike Chaddock here
30:24
Speaker 1: until 4 o'clock Pacific time on this Monday. So call
30:28
Speaker 1: in if you can at 888-564-6173. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
30:32
Speaker 1: or Instagram, thank you so much. We're speaking right now
30:35
Speaker 1: with Sarafina who called in from San Diego and uh
30:39
Speaker 1: she had a question about, you know, the age of
30:41
Speaker 1: the earth and when it comes to all these things
30:43
Speaker 1: that sometimes we see on
30:45
Speaker 1: Certain YouTube channels that can be mind boggling, but I mean,
30:49
Speaker 1: where do we go from there? Yeah, I love Mike's
30:51
Speaker 1: point and we were just kind of talking about it offline,
30:53
Speaker 1: but I think for so many of my years, you know,
30:56
Speaker 1: growing up in the 80s and the 90s in the church,
30:58
Speaker 1: you know, I saw Ken Ham and Kent Hon, you know,
31:00
Speaker 1: and these were the lectures that would come to our
31:01
Speaker 1: schools and talk about.
31:02
Speaker 1: You know, kind of the big debate of creation and
31:04
Speaker 1: the flood and these things. And I really do believe
31:08
Speaker 1: like they're not unimportant questions to ask, but they can
31:10
Speaker 1: actually be really unhelpful if you don't have a biblical framework.
31:15
Speaker 1: And so the problem is, I think we go to
31:18
Speaker 1: Genesis and we think it's all about the creation evolution debate,
31:21
Speaker 1: and I love your point, you know, pointing out no
31:24
Speaker 1: one in the ancient Near East world was asking that.
31:28
Speaker 1: Nobody was, um, agnostic.
31:31
Speaker 1: Um, no one was, uh, atheistic in that world. There
31:35
Speaker 1: were many, many gods, and it was kind of like,
31:38
Speaker 1: what story do you belong to, you know, so was
31:40
Speaker 1: it Marduke and the violence of the gods and the
31:42
Speaker 1: overthrowing of these things. And so, um, you know, what
31:44
Speaker 1: we really need to understand, and if we miss this,
31:47
Speaker 1: we kind of miss everything, is that Genesis 1 and
31:50
Speaker 1: 2 is all about the framework for the rest of
31:54
Speaker 1: the redemptive story of creation. And so what God is
31:57
Speaker 1: doing in
31:58
Speaker 1: Uh, and why there's so much focus on the intricacies
32:01
Speaker 1: of the garden is because we're being shown that this
32:03
Speaker 1: is a temple-like place. It's a place where heaven and earth, um,
32:08
Speaker 1: come together, and God and humans dwell there, right? And
32:13
Speaker 1: God sets humans, his image bearers over all of his creation,
32:18
Speaker 1: and he asked them to take, you know, the confines
32:21
Speaker 1: of the garden and they're supposed to spread it out
32:23
Speaker 1: to the ends of the earth. And so,
32:26
Speaker 1: You know, this is kind of the stage is set
32:28
Speaker 1: for the story, and then immediately it goes off the rails. And,
32:33
Speaker 1: you know, kind of this downward spiral that we find
32:35
Speaker 1: all the way to Genesis 11 that's picked up in
32:37
Speaker 1: Genesis chapter 12, where God takes Abraham and his family,
32:41
Speaker 1: and he's going to pick up his plans and purposes
32:44
Speaker 1: for humanity and for creation, and he's going to carry
32:46
Speaker 1: them to the end through Abraham and through his seed
32:49
Speaker 1: arriving in Jesus.
32:50
Speaker 1: I think if we miss all that, we miss what
32:53
Speaker 1: redemption in Jesus actually means. And even the language that
32:57
Speaker 1: Jesus uses after he has died, been buried, resurrected, is
33:01
Speaker 1: actually so similar to the framework that we find in Genesis, uh,
33:04
Speaker 1: chapter 2. We find that Jesus now has all power
33:08
Speaker 1: and all authority in heaven and earth, that he is
33:12
Speaker 1: with humans.
33:14
Speaker 1: Always, and now the mandate is to go to the
33:17
Speaker 1: ends of the earth and to take this proclamation of
33:20
Speaker 1: God's kingdom, you know, to the end. And it's so
33:23
Speaker 1: similar to the framework that we find in Genesis 1
33:26
Speaker 1: and 2, is that, uh, here is God supreme over
33:30
Speaker 1: all things ruling as king.
33:32
Speaker 1: Uh, he's in the midst of humanity, and there is
33:34
Speaker 1: this mandate to take his kingdom and to spread it
33:37
Speaker 1: to the ends of the earth. And so we, we
33:39
Speaker 1: see that this is a, a redemptive story. And I
33:42
Speaker 1: think again, kind of these questions of the Nephilim, how
33:46
Speaker 1: old is the earth, dinosaur bones, all these things, you know,
33:49
Speaker 1: those are questions that the
33:52
Speaker 1: The scriptures themselves aren't interested in answering. So as the church,
33:57
Speaker 1: they should not be our focus in our studies or
34:00
Speaker 1: in our evangelism. Like this actually, the Bible doesn't care
34:05
Speaker 1: to answer it, doesn't care to talk about it. It
34:07
Speaker 1: wants to talk about redemption.
34:08
Speaker 1: wants to talk about the purpose of the world, wants
34:10
Speaker 1: to talk about the purpose of humanity, wants to talk
34:12
Speaker 1: about the true character of God, wants to talk about
34:14
Speaker 1: what true righteousness and holiness, what is acceptable to God,
34:18
Speaker 1: what what's a life worthy of living according to God's standards.
34:22
Speaker 1: And so those are the things I would say that
34:24
Speaker 1: we should be focusing in on and be concerned with,
34:28
Speaker 1: and not, you know, some of these kind of, uh,
34:32
Speaker 1: pet topics that Christians so often kind of get fixated on.
34:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's kind of the problem with
34:39
Speaker 1: some of the Nephilim narratives that are out there. Some
34:41
Speaker 1: people make it like.
34:44
Speaker 1: An alternate gospel story where what is actually wrong with
34:48
Speaker 1: the world is corrupt DNA rather than actually talking about
34:52
Speaker 1: sin is covenant violation, which ultimately it is.
34:56
Speaker 1: Um, that it's relational ultimately that while it certainly includes
35:01
Speaker 1: your body and therefore one could argue, oh your DNA
35:03
Speaker 1: is included with your body, OK, but it's more unless
35:05
Speaker 1: you're saying we're purely made up of matter, there's no spirit,
35:10
Speaker 1: there's no soul, which again I would say definitely is
35:12
Speaker 1: a problem with, uh, biblical theology, then we are more
35:16
Speaker 1: than a body, we're not less, but we're more and
35:19
Speaker 1: all of that which makes up the human person is
35:22
Speaker 1: in covenant violation of God, right? Sin is the problem.
35:26
Speaker 1: And like because I've heard and and uh.
35:29
Speaker 1: I haven't heard this, uh, specific person, Serafina that you're
35:32
Speaker 1: referring to, so I don't know how different or similar
35:35
Speaker 1: they are, but I have heard people where they've made
35:37
Speaker 1: their whole pet theory. It's almost like, here's the alien story,
35:41
Speaker 1: and no pun intended, of the Bible, um, you all
35:44
Speaker 1: have missed it. It's not really about, you know, Abraham
35:48
Speaker 1: and Isaac and Jacob and, and the covenant line and,
35:51
Speaker 1: and sin.
35:52
Speaker 1: You know, violating God's trust, and we need, it's, it's
35:55
Speaker 1: all about DNA which is once again, kind of a
35:58
Speaker 1: very modern scientific sort of science fiction kind of angle
36:03
Speaker 1: on the Bible. And it's very kind of esoteric, kind
36:05
Speaker 1: of Gnostic, right? Because it's not the plain reading of scripture.
36:08
Speaker 1: It's not the reading of scripture that the church has
36:11
Speaker 1: borne witness to for thousands of years. It is a
36:13
Speaker 1: new sort of and and maybe
36:15
Speaker 1: This is an extreme form, but some almost present it
36:17
Speaker 1: as like, this is another gospel. This is another story,
36:20
Speaker 1: another narrative, one that nobody's ever known, and I'd say
36:24
Speaker 1: I have very serious problems with that. Um, if it's
36:27
Speaker 1: the case in some traditions, I, I don't think we
36:30
Speaker 1: in Calvary, I will say this, I don't, I don't
36:32
Speaker 1: think anybody denied that the, the Nephilim were, you know,
36:35
Speaker 1: some kind of combination of fallen angels and people. I
36:37
Speaker 1: know some.
36:39
Speaker 1: Christian denominations, you know, kind of embarrassed by that. Oh gosh,
36:41
Speaker 1: that sounds very archaic, very mythological. We don't, Calvary, we
36:45
Speaker 1: didn't do that, you know, um, so I don't, it's
36:48
Speaker 1: not new news to us. I do know it is
36:50
Speaker 1: for certain traditions and, uh, denominations, so I, I think
36:55
Speaker 1: there is something to that. But again, and, and even
36:57
Speaker 1: the idea of, of.
36:59
Speaker 1: Giants meaning they're big. It's actually the Greek word gigantes
37:03
Speaker 1: actually refers to mythological, um, creatures. It doesn't mean they
37:06
Speaker 1: were tall human beings, whatever. They were, you know, again,
37:09
Speaker 1: kind of probably fallen angels, spiritual beings, whatever. They might
37:12
Speaker 1: have been normal size, who knows? But the point is
37:16
Speaker 1: sort of.
37:16
Speaker 1: The spiritual power or whatever it doesn't even necessarily contain
37:20
Speaker 1: a physical DNA, uh, sort of concept. It would actually
37:23
Speaker 1: be missing, uh, the background, but the English were giant
37:26
Speaker 1: automatically if you think of someone who's really tall. Yeah,
37:29
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that in almost every ancient civilization.
37:34
Speaker 1: There is, you know, the record of some kind of flood,
37:37
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's local, uh, universal, global flood, and
37:41
Speaker 1: there's also the story of a divine incursion, right? There
37:43
Speaker 1: are the mixing of the gods with humans, right? So
37:46
Speaker 1: you've got Hercules, you've got Achilles, you've got these stories
37:49
Speaker 1: within Greek mythology, Norse mythology, right? Like all of these
37:52
Speaker 1: ancient civilizations have some kind of version of this. And yet,
37:56
Speaker 1: you know, some would say, like Lewis or Tolkien would
37:58
Speaker 1: say like,
37:59
Speaker 1: These are uh grasping for the true story. I mean, cause,
38:03
Speaker 1: I mean, we believe that God Himself actually became a
38:07
Speaker 1: human being in order to rescue us. And so even
38:10
Speaker 1: within these, um, you know, ancient cultures, we have kind
38:14
Speaker 1: of these graspings for the divine and the human, this overlap,
38:18
Speaker 1: this connection, the gods coming down to us and bringing
38:21
Speaker 1: salvation and rescue and being these mighty ones for us.
38:24
Speaker 1: And so, you know, it, it's actually, I don't know,
38:26
Speaker 1: just curious to think that
38:28
Speaker 1: OK, you know, this is in the biblical story, but
38:31
Speaker 1: it's not so wild as to think that people have
38:34
Speaker 1: actually believed this all throughout time in history, that this
38:37
Speaker 1: was possible, that the gods actually spiritual beings had actually
38:41
Speaker 1: come and lived among us and mingled with us. So yeah,
38:44
Speaker 1: I mean, interestingly, if you accept the biblical story, then
38:47
Speaker 1: we all come from common ancestors. All the peoples of
38:50
Speaker 1: the world, all the people of the various nations, religions,
38:53
Speaker 1: all that actually come.
38:54
Speaker 1: From the same place. And so, for example, Cain and Abel,
38:58
Speaker 1: the oral traditions, which are the way things were passed down.
39:01
Speaker 1: So you imagine God preserves his revelation and his truth
39:04
Speaker 1: through a certain line, does not seem to do it
39:07
Speaker 1: with another line, but that doesn't mean they didn't have
39:09
Speaker 1: stories though they were corrupted or changed.
39:12
Speaker 1: Developed over time, but it would not surprise us if
39:16
Speaker 1: we accept the biblical narrative. They would have some knowledge
39:19
Speaker 1: of some truth. Again, not the truth, you know, certainly, um,
39:23
Speaker 1: but some knowledge of it. And I think like you
39:25
Speaker 1: just pointed out, we do, there are these common stories,
39:27
Speaker 1: whether it's of the Nephilim type idea, the flood.
39:31
Speaker 1: Everybody seems to acknowledge, you know, again, they'll attribute it differently, right?
39:34
Speaker 1: How they interpret it, uh, what exactly, you know, but
39:37
Speaker 1: the idea that there was this great, you know, uh,
39:40
Speaker 1: universal flood, uh, seems to be common to everybody, which
39:45
Speaker 1: means it would be reasonable to think, hey, this, this
39:48
Speaker 1: comes from a common source at some point.
39:51
Speaker 1: Sarafina, thanks for your phone call, and now we're going
39:54
Speaker 1: to put on Cap in Avalon, listening to K-wave. Hello, Cap.
39:58
Speaker 1: Welcome to the program.
40:00
Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going, you guys? Good. How are you?
40:04
Speaker 1: OK, well, my question is, can God worship Himself? Let
40:09
Speaker 1: me explain, because I tell people there's 3 things God
40:12
Speaker 1: can't do. He can't lie, he can't learn, and he
40:15
Speaker 1: can't make us love Him. I would not want to
40:18
Speaker 1: tell him God can't worship Himself because he made us
40:21
Speaker 1: to worship Him. I mean, can I say that without
40:26
Speaker 1: any doubt.
40:29
Speaker 1: Without any what?
40:31
Speaker 1: Doubt, doubt, tell him that that that's the truth because
40:35
Speaker 1: can God worship Himself? I know he can glorify Himself,
40:39
Speaker 1: but he can't worship Himself.
40:41
Speaker 1: I don't think Char, what do you say?
40:44
Speaker 1: It's an interesting question.
40:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean,
40:50
Speaker 1: To worship is, I, I mean, in a sense is
40:53
Speaker 1: synonymous with to give glory, uh, you know, to something, um,
40:59
Speaker 1: to give worth to something.
41:01
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we're talking about the worship
41:03
Speaker 1: of God to give infinite worth, all worth, you know,
41:06
Speaker 1: to attribute that to God. I think, I think it
41:09
Speaker 1: kind of depends on what we're talking about in, in worship, right?
41:12
Speaker 1: Because we would say that Jesus, who is the God man,
41:16
Speaker 1: worshiped God supremely. I mean, Jesus even says this, you know,
41:19
Speaker 1: when he's tempted to
41:21
Speaker 1: You know, by the devil, right? The devil says, bow
41:24
Speaker 1: down and, and if you, I will give you the
41:25
Speaker 1: kingdoms of the world if you will bow down and
41:27
Speaker 1: worship me. And he says, you know, it's written, you
41:29
Speaker 1: shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall
41:32
Speaker 1: you serve. And so Jesus is, I think, in that
41:34
Speaker 1: moment communicating my worship and my service belong alone to
41:39
Speaker 1: the one true God. And Jesus, I think, demonstrates a
41:42
Speaker 1: life of
41:43
Speaker 1: Um, giving worship, glory, honor to the Father. And he
41:47
Speaker 1: says that. I glorify the Father, right? He's saying this
41:50
Speaker 1: again and again and again. And so, you know, God,
41:53
Speaker 1: as we know, Father, Son, and Spirit, pre-incarnation, does God
41:58
Speaker 1: worship Himself? I think that's just probably a weird question
42:02
Speaker 1: to kind of ask. But I think, you know, obviously
42:05
Speaker 1: God the Son is fulfilling, um,
42:09
Speaker 1: The role of the perfect human who, you know, does
42:12
Speaker 1: what Adam failed to do, who is the forerunner for
42:14
Speaker 1: us to defeat sin, death, and the devil, and these things.
42:17
Speaker 1: And so the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ, does
42:21
Speaker 1: worship God, not just in word, but in deed in
42:24
Speaker 1: the whole of his being. And so I think we
42:25
Speaker 1: could say, well, Jesus, the Son of God, worshiped.
42:31
Speaker 1: The Father, Yahweh. I think also too, Cap, just with
42:35
Speaker 1: uh your, your second premise there, um, God cannot learn.
42:40
Speaker 1: Uh, yes, we would agree with that, but then I
42:42
Speaker 1: think also think about the incarnation, where the Son of God,
42:46
Speaker 1: we're taught that he does grow in wisdom and in stature,
42:51
Speaker 1: in favor with God and man. And so we would
42:55
Speaker 1: actually say Jesus, the human actually did have to learn
43:00
Speaker 1: and have to grow in wisdom. And that's actually what's
43:03
Speaker 1: so incredible about the incarnation is that
43:06
Speaker 1: God, you know, kind of, you know, as Dorothy Sayers
43:08
Speaker 1: would say, when God became a man, he played fair
43:11
Speaker 1: to his own rules and subjected himself to all the
43:15
Speaker 1: experiences of the human, you know, story and condition. And
43:18
Speaker 1: so he had to learn and he experienced suffering and
43:21
Speaker 1: pain and disappointment, you know, as we were mentioning a
43:23
Speaker 1: moment ago, just even in the prayer life of Jesus. So,
43:26
Speaker 1: you know, I just think that there's some stuff there
43:28
Speaker 1: that we have to kind of, we have to hold
43:30
Speaker 1: with some nuance and, and, um,
43:33
Speaker 1: Do you, are you following me, Cap, on that? But
43:34
Speaker 1: is God learning now? Maybe that's what means, and that's
43:38
Speaker 1: why I'm kind of, yeah, just clarifying, yeah.
43:42
Speaker 1: Cap, what do you think? I just want, well, I, I,
43:45
Speaker 1: I enjoy telling people about Jesus because without him I would, uh,
43:51
Speaker 1: I'd be already planting flowers, and he kept me alive to,
43:56
Speaker 1: to witness to people, and I just thank God for His,
44:01
Speaker 1: His grace and mercy. OK, I mean, I, I just want,
44:04
Speaker 1: did not want to give.
44:06
Speaker 1: A the wrong information to anything.
44:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think God couldn't,
44:14
Speaker 1: we wouldn't even have this question if God weren't triune, right?
44:17
Speaker 1: If God is just a monad, a single being, he
44:20
Speaker 1: can't worship himself, the only way you can even ask
44:22
Speaker 1: that is the Christian doctrine of God is that God
44:25
Speaker 1: is triune, right, that there's Father, Son, and Spirit, which
44:29
Speaker 1: would even make a question like this rational to ask
44:34
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, we, we can talk about conceptually,
44:37
Speaker 1: you know, would, you know, can God worship God.
44:40
Speaker 1: Um, linguistically, I'm not, I'm actually not sure if you
44:44
Speaker 1: know that, for example, if the standard word for worship Proskeuo,
44:48
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not saying no. I'm just not
44:51
Speaker 1: sure if it's used of Jesus or God. It might be,
44:54
Speaker 1: but certainly what we do know is that within the Father, Son,
44:57
Speaker 1: and Spirit, as you mentioned already, Cap, there is glorification.
45:01
Speaker 1: Um, which is not unrelated to worship. Maybe somebody, uh,
45:05
Speaker 1: could parse that and be like, OK, I wouldn't wanna
45:07
Speaker 1: say that. For me, I just feel like until I
45:10
Speaker 1: can really be sure that two different words are conceptually
45:13
Speaker 1: the same, I prefer to keep them distinct, so I
45:15
Speaker 1: would stick with the biblical language. I'm.
45:18
Speaker 1: Of which is Jesus in like his high priestly prayer
45:20
Speaker 1: actually prays, Father, glorify me as I glorify you. So
45:27
Speaker 1: we see glorification within the persons of the Trinity. So
45:32
Speaker 1: I think we're on solid biblical ground to say that
45:36
Speaker 1: at least.
45:37
Speaker 1: Cap, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective, 888-564-6173.
45:44
Speaker 1: Still time possibly for you to call in and ask
45:46
Speaker 1: your question. We've got Char and Mike here till 4.
45:50
Speaker 1: And now let's talk to Art in Ontario, listening to Kwave.
45:54
Speaker 1: What's up, Art?
45:58
Speaker 1: Art, you there?
46:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you are. What's your question, man?
46:05
Speaker 1: OK, I have a question about the practical application of
46:09
Speaker 1: Ephesians 4:26 where it says, don't let the sun go
46:12
Speaker 1: down on your anger.
46:14
Speaker 1: I've always been taught and I think everyone I know
46:18
Speaker 1: they kind of apply it like if you're married and
46:21
Speaker 1: you're in an argument right? like don't go to bed angry,
46:24
Speaker 1: make sure um so what would be your interpretation of
46:30
Speaker 1: that verse because I heard something different this week from
46:34
Speaker 1: a young pastor uh who I don't know if he
46:38
Speaker 1: was filling in for someone or if it was.
46:40
Speaker 1: But it was on K wave and he was talking
46:43
Speaker 1: about that same example when I was young and I
46:45
Speaker 1: was newly married. I always thought that that verse meant,
46:48
Speaker 1: you know, we had to stay up until 4 in
46:49
Speaker 1: the morning, stay up until 4 in the morning, we
46:52
Speaker 1: resolve things, and he said, until I heard or until
46:55
Speaker 1: I learned that that's not what that verse means, so
46:59
Speaker 1: I'm asking.
47:01
Speaker 1: What that that's so good. All right. I mean, he'll,
47:05
Speaker 1: he'll say, you know, if you haven't stayed up, you know,
47:09
Speaker 1: till 4 in the morning, are you even married? You know,
47:11
Speaker 1: like I feel like it's just a rite of passage,
47:13
Speaker 1: you know, like, no, we're going to figure this out
47:16
Speaker 1: because we're committed to one another and the truth, and yeah.
47:19
Speaker 1: I know for myself, I definitely did that in the beginning.
47:23
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the prince, I would say
47:25
Speaker 1: it's a principle that Paul is giving us and that
47:29
Speaker 1: we're not going to allow, um,
47:32
Speaker 1: You know, anger to settle in, or like the writer
47:35
Speaker 1: of Hebrews says, right, that there would be a root
47:37
Speaker 1: of bitterness that would spring up and bring defilement. Um,
47:41
Speaker 1: I think Peter's the one that talks about, um, you know, that,
47:44
Speaker 1: or is it Paul talked about like how unforgiveness, bitterness
47:47
Speaker 1: can give place to the devil. And so I think
47:49
Speaker 1: that there is this principle that
47:52
Speaker 1: You know, we're not going to, um, just let our
47:55
Speaker 1: anger simmer, um, and just kind of sit in it,
47:59
Speaker 1: but we're actually going to be active in seeking reconciliation
48:02
Speaker 1: and seeking peace. And so I, you know, I don't, again,
48:04
Speaker 1: it's a principle, right? So it doesn't mean like, no,
48:08
Speaker 1: you know, at midnight, you know, like, if we haven't
48:11
Speaker 1: got this figured out, we have to press into the
48:13
Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning to make sure that we're filling.
48:16
Speaker 1: This biblical command of these things. It's that principle, like, OK,
48:19
Speaker 1: you know, I've had it where we're like, we are
48:21
Speaker 1: so tired, we're not making any sense anymore. And I
48:23
Speaker 1: think I'm just mad about being mad now, you know,
48:26
Speaker 1: and I just need to sleep. And I've found so
48:29
Speaker 1: many times that, you know, my wife and I, Grace,
48:31
Speaker 1: would just be like, you know what, let's talk about
48:32
Speaker 1: this in the morning.
48:34
Speaker 1: So much like has been cleared up for us. It was,
48:38
Speaker 1: you know, tired or emotions and these things, and we
48:40
Speaker 1: have clarity, and then we're able to sort through those
48:42
Speaker 1: things and move forward and forgiveness and reconciliation. So, again,
48:46
Speaker 1: I believe that this is a principle that we are
48:48
Speaker 1: to live by as believers, uh, that we are to
48:51
Speaker 1: practice forgiveness because we have been forgiven. We are to
48:56
Speaker 1: practice reconciliation as much as possible with us, with, yeah,
49:00
Speaker 1: concerns us because God is the God of reconciliation.
49:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a proverbial saying, you know, and so I
49:07
Speaker 1: think that the principle is the key. So it's not
49:11
Speaker 1: to be taken literally that no matter how angry and
49:17
Speaker 1: tired and
49:19
Speaker 1: Caffeined up you are at 2 in the morning, you
49:22
Speaker 1: should keep arguing, hoping for a better outcome. That actually
49:25
Speaker 1: doesn't seem wise to me, but the basic point is
49:29
Speaker 1: the idea of don't just let it fester, don't let
49:32
Speaker 1: it stay there, um, because I do think, you know.
49:37
Speaker 1: People, you know, I mean this could happen in any relationship,
49:40
Speaker 1: but with married couples it can be the kind of
49:43
Speaker 1: thing where your anger never went away you just stopped,
49:47
Speaker 1: you buried it, you hid it, and it festered for
49:50
Speaker 1: 20 years, then all of a sudden to everybody else
49:52
Speaker 1: it looks like wow, they got divorced out of nowhere.
49:54
Speaker 1: It's like, no, not out of nowhere, 20 years of
49:56
Speaker 1: being angry and you just never.
49:58
Speaker 1: Dealt with it. So I, I think that's the principle.
50:00
Speaker 1: Don't just, you know, you wanna have these conversations as
50:04
Speaker 1: difficult as they can be, you should have them. But
50:07
Speaker 1: I also would say this is where the kind of
50:09
Speaker 1: the simplistic legalistic application is actually counterproductive. There, there are
50:15
Speaker 1: bad times to do this, you know, if somebody.
50:18
Speaker 1: Uh, for example, you know, your spouse and you work
50:22
Speaker 1: completely different shifts and your spouse works the night shift
50:24
Speaker 1: and they're trying to sleep and you're like, nope, I'm
50:26
Speaker 1: not gonna let the sun go down on my wrath.
50:28
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ruin your entire day till we get, it's,
50:31
Speaker 1: you know, again, be wise about your application of it.
50:34
Speaker 1: We understand the principle that might mean there are times where, yeah, no,
50:38
Speaker 1: I literally don't wanna go to bed with this. And
50:41
Speaker 1: by the way, it's not just what you want. I
50:43
Speaker 1: think if the other person is in a place.
50:46
Speaker 1: To have this, but to sort of force this principle
50:50
Speaker 1: on them, use it almost against them, um, I think
50:53
Speaker 1: that is unwise, and I think, you know, a lot
50:56
Speaker 1: of us when we were younger were kind of told,
50:58
Speaker 1: you know, this is, this is a rule we just
51:00
Speaker 1: have to put down regardless of the results that I
51:03
Speaker 1: that kind of zeal to going into the marriage like
51:05
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make all the mistakes everybody else made.
51:07
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this right, you know. I think it's like, yeah,
51:09
Speaker 1: I think it's funny too though. I think we actually like.
51:12
Speaker 1: You know, don't let the sun go down on your wrath.
51:14
Speaker 1: I mean, usually you're already arguing after the sun's down,
51:17
Speaker 1: so it's like, OK, well, too late, too late. But
51:20
Speaker 1: it's just so funny. Like we take it so literally,
51:23
Speaker 1: but then we kind of miss that part. Well, if
51:24
Speaker 1: we're taking it actually literally, we already missed the window.
51:28
Speaker 1: So yeah, and if it's down, let's just be as
51:30
Speaker 1: angry as I want. No arguing in the evening. That's basically, yes.
51:34
Speaker 1: All right, Art, does this answer your question?
51:39
Speaker 1: Yes, that's much more life-giving. I, I don't like the
51:43
Speaker 1: idea of someone saying, well, the sun hasn't set somewhere
51:46
Speaker 1: in the world. We're gonna hop on a plane and
51:50
Speaker 1: we're gonna keep this going. I think too, Art, it
51:53
Speaker 1: probably applies to, to like the Jewish idea.
51:55
Speaker 1: Idea of the day, right? And so, like, don't let
51:58
Speaker 1: the day pass, like in a, in a sense of
52:00
Speaker 1: a principle to live by, right? You know, don't let the,
52:03
Speaker 1: the wrongs of the day pass without, you know, this
52:07
Speaker 1: idea of bringing them to reconciliation, bringing forgiveness to these things.
52:11
Speaker 1: So it's a great rule value to live by for sure.
52:15
Speaker 1: Art, thank you so much for calling in with your
52:18
Speaker 1: question today here on Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Here's one
52:23
Speaker 1: from Steve in Newport Beach. We kind of already know
52:26
Speaker 1: the answer to this one, but how long does it say,
52:29
Speaker 1: how long does the Bible say, Adam and Eve were
52:32
Speaker 1: roaming around the garden before the serpent deceived Eve and
52:35
Speaker 1: original sin was born?
52:38
Speaker 1: So we don't know the answer to that, but is
52:40
Speaker 1: there anything that might lead us to believe that it
52:44
Speaker 1: was a week, 2 weeks, a year? Some Bible commentators
52:48
Speaker 1: believe that, um, it's actually the, the everything that happens
52:54
Speaker 1: within the fall is on the 7th day.
52:56
Speaker 1: And so that what we're seeing, and sometimes we miss this,
53:00
Speaker 1: the Sabbath is actually the capstone of creation, and it's
53:03
Speaker 1: a picture of God settling upon the throne of His kingdom.
53:07
Speaker 1: And so then the idea is that the, the crowning
53:10
Speaker 1: jewel of His kingdom is humanity, and they reject the
53:14
Speaker 1: seventh day. They reject the rule of God over his
53:17
Speaker 1: creation and over them. And so there's like this deep,
53:21
Speaker 1: deep irony of what's actually happening in the creation narrative.
53:24
Speaker 1: I think that's really compelling.
53:26
Speaker 1: Uh, for just the whole biblical story of the rejection
53:29
Speaker 1: of God, you know, kind of what we read in
53:30
Speaker 1: Romans 1 and other passages. But yeah, I guess if
53:33
Speaker 1: we're talking specifics, the Bible isn't like, and by the way,
53:37
Speaker 1: remember it's still the 7th day. That's when this happened.
53:40
Speaker 1: Like there's nothing, yeah, well, and again, that's the question
53:42
Speaker 1: of did it happen in the 24 hour period of
53:45
Speaker 1: the 7th day, because I, I would venture to think
53:48
Speaker 1: that's probably not the point of what you're saying, but it's.
53:51
Speaker 1: The theological idea that this is the, the Shabbat of God,
53:54
Speaker 1: the rest, that the fullness of creation is here. It
53:57
Speaker 1: is very good, and he's turned it over and in
54:00
Speaker 1: the middle of this Shabbat, look what they've done. They've,
54:03
Speaker 1: they've violated. But whether that means that literally within 24 hours, they,
54:08
Speaker 1: and by the way, I wouldn't, not just on, you know,
54:11
Speaker 1: linguistic or literary grounds, but even just, you know, I
54:14
Speaker 1: wouldn't doubt. On the other hand, I wouldn't doubt it
54:16
Speaker 1: if time passed too. Just, I mean, either way, it's.
54:19
Speaker 1: It is an interesting thing to think, and I, I
54:21
Speaker 1: do think, um, the place to start is not the
54:25
Speaker 1: contemporary debates about amounts of time because I think
54:29
Speaker 1: It, it's such a, the hotbed of contemporary debate is,
54:33
Speaker 1: is so fierce that I think even when you start exploring, hey,
54:36
Speaker 1: what does the text really say, people start, 000, I
54:40
Speaker 1: see what you're gonna do. If the text says this,
54:42
Speaker 1: then that'll mess up my theory and you're like, wait
54:43
Speaker 1: a minute.
54:44
Speaker 1: You should, you shouldn't be holding on to your pet
54:48
Speaker 1: theories so much. You're not willing to listen to what
54:51
Speaker 1: scripture actually says and, and to explore it. And if
54:53
Speaker 1: you don't really understand it, again, I would be more
54:57
Speaker 1: close-handed with what the Bible actually says than modern interpretive theories.
55:01
Speaker 1: I would be like, hey, maybe this is what I understand,
55:03
Speaker 1: this is what I think, but I'm always willing to
55:05
Speaker 1: go back to the Bible and see whether these things
55:08
Speaker 1: are so.
55:09
Speaker 1: Steve, thanks for sending in your question through the Pastor's
55:12
Speaker 1: Perspective Facebook page using Messenger. And that's all the time
55:16
Speaker 1: we have on today's episode of Pastor's Perspective, which we're
55:19
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55:24
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55:26
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55:29
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55:32
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55:35
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55:41
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55:50
Speaker 1: out the form and that gets your question to us,
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Speaker 1: but we'd love to speak with you if you can
55:55
Speaker 1: call in tomorrow here on Pastor's Perspective for Char Broderson
55:59
Speaker 1: and Mike Chaddock. I'm Brian Perez. Bye-bye.