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The Riches Are in the Niches: Why Specializing is the Ultimate Business Hack · Serious Lady Business

• LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (00:01) Welcome to Serious Lady Business, the podcast where we discuss the serious and sure sometimes the not so serious ins and outs of being a female entrepreneur. From the hard lessons nobody tells you about to the unexpected joys of entrepreneurship, we uncover the realities of building and leading a business in today's world. I'm so excited to have this guest with us today. We've been friends and professional connections since we were both in the corporate world. I'm so excited for her to share a bit about her journey and why the riches are in the niches. Kathy Guillory is the founder and a fractional CMO for Belle Bear Marketing, her company. She specializes in helping pet businesses get more tails in the door. She has worked with pet brands of all sizes from the largest private equity funded consolidator with 150 plus unique pet care brands. to small local no kill animal shelters, so amazing, and National Pet Therapy Associations. I love it, I'm so excited to talk to you today and have you here, Kathy. Tell us a bit more about you and Belle Bear. Kathy Guillory (01:05) Thank you. am thrilled to be here. So you're my second podcast ever. So I am very, very excited that it is here and that I'm sharing this one of these milestones with you. So super thrilled. Yeah. So a little bit about Belle Bear Marketing. So Belle Bear Marketing was born almost two years ago. So in June of 2023, I decided that it was time to go out on my own. I was feeling a little burnt out in the corporate world. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (01:16) and Kathy Guillory (01:29) as so many of us are. And I was like, you know, I think it's time. I think it's time to do this. And Belle Bear actually has a really fun name behind it. I've shared this on LinkedIn before as well. So I am originally from the South and I moved up here from Georgia in 2015. And when I met my husband, who's a native Mainer I introduced myself. I was like, you know, half polar bear, half Southern Belle. So we'll have to figure this out as far as, know, I the cold. I moved here for the four seasons and he immediately combined them and he was like, oh. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (01:30) Right. Kathy Guillory (01:58) Belle Bear, you're a Belle Bear. And so it became this nickname, it became this like family theme, my kids think they're cubs. Like we have a lot of us, you can tell there's a lot of Polar Bear themed paraphernalia all around. But when it was time to really name my business, I was like, you know, I could name it something really traditional like Kathy Guillory Consulting or something with my name in it. But I wanted something that really stood out on its own that wasn't necessarily tied to me, but was still felt really personal. So Belle Bear marketing was born. And here we go. Thank you. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (02:06) Mama bear. Right. love that. That's so great. so, yeah, like you said, so before you started the agency, you were in the corporate world. And as I mentioned, we connected back then and we were both looking to elevate ourselves in VP roles and director roles and being in marketing and being in that professional space for many years. And I just love that we both around the same time were like, fuck this. Like, this is not for us. Kathy Guillory (02:32) was. Yes, same, same. Yeah, for sure. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (02:52) something's missing for us. And so I would love for you to kind of talk about that inflection point and then we can, and then from there, you know, it was a journey and we talked, you know, we text and we talk and we were talking about niches and how to really focus down. But I would just kind of love for you to share that sort of impetus for you for starting just because I know and it was there when we were going through that. Kathy Guillory (03:14) Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good starting point. It is wild to think that just three years ago, we were still gainfully employed in the corporate world. So I think for me, it was really, I got burned out. I reached a certain level of burnout. I was working for a very large consolidator in the animal health space and we were managing 150 plus brands. So not just locations, right? So when I say that... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (03:22) You Kathy Guillory (03:38) I mean, 155 unique brands, so 155 websites, 155 unique email lists, 155 social media accounts. So it was like marketing on steroids. I did, I did, I did. And it was a very fast paced setting. was PE funded as that often is. So really aggressive growth. We grew by I think 30 % in a little over a year I was there. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (03:40) Mm-hmm. Anyway, and you got burned out on that, I'm so confused. Mmm. Kathy Guillory (04:05) And we had tremendous turnover on the marketing team. So it was just kind of this in and out, like people coming in, people leaving. And that left a lot of the day-to-day tasks to really fall into people who were there. And so the, I think the third time a person in the same role on my team gave their notice within a year, I was like, okay, I think I'm done. I think this is a sign. I think it's really time to go out on my own. And so that summer, you know, I really sat down and crunched the numbers with my husband and we decided that it was just time to kind of take this gamble. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (04:08) and Kathy Guillory (04:32) And I wasn't sure at the time if it was going to be something permanent or if it was going to be, you know, I'm going to take like six months off and do some consulting to see really what materializes. But that was really the inflection point, right? It was like, I just can't, just can't do this anymore. and one of the things that nobody tells you about starting your business is, know, you go out on your own, you announce it the first like six to seven months are really easy, right? You get referrals from your existing network. Business is kind of flooding in like life is grand. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (04:37) of things. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. Kathy Guillory (05:00) Right. And then you're like, it's going to be like this forever. This is good. I don't have to go sell or develop business or sell to people. I don't know, but that's not the case. Right. Eventually that pipeline dries out and you really have to be strategic about going out and securing new business. You have to really be specific about who your audience is. And that's where that niche conversation I think is so important that if you're a really, you know, if you know this as an entrepreneur, who's going out on your own, you're strategic and you spend those first six or seven months building your pipeline for the future. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (05:06) Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think there's... Kathy Guillory (05:30) right? So that it's there. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (05:33) It's spot on like what you said where you announced it and everybody's like, congratulations, I know somebody, I'm going to connect you. And then you meet with them and you're like, yeah, I'll work with you because I need to work. And then you're working for like 10 different industries and you're like, and then you were like, well, what do you do? What kind of businesses do you work with? And you're like, anybody that'll pay me. That's not really the smartest way to go about it. Even though it is at the end of the day, you do want to be profitable. You do need to pay your bills, right? You do want to grow and all those things. But I was just reading last, I don't know if it was, saw last Kathy Guillory (05:55) Of course. Of course. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (06:03) night, but it was, know, when you start your business, you have this high, and then you have the messy middle, right? Like it kind of like peters out and it's not because you are failing, it's not because this isn't the right path. This is just the next natural step and you are so right that nobody talks about that. And so I'm so glad you brought that up. So when you had that initial rush of business and success, how long did it take you to think, I think I need to niche, I think I really need to establish a pipeline? Kathy Guillory (06:09) Yeah. Yeah. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (06:33) line of a particular type of ICP, ideal customer profile, to keep this going for the long term. Kathy Guillory (06:40) Yeah. So good question. So my first six months was really, really easy, right? So I announced in like June, July, and then I was pretty much covered through the end of the year, right? I had a couple of longer term contracts. I had one that was an interim engagement. I was covering for a VP of marketing at an agency that was going to be out. So pretty gravy, right? Pretty easy. My plate was full. I was doing some content work. Like I was posting on LinkedIn maybe a couple of times a week. I had my, you know, I was building my website. I was doing some of the foundational pieces, but not really out there. Certainly not. having long-term sales conversations that we all know can sometimes take three to nine months, right? Sometimes even longer in this space. When you talk about budgets and different approval processes within these larger organizations, like you don't just show up, right? And say like, hey, I'm here, have some consulting, buy some consulting from me. It doesn't work that way, right? It's just not how it works. So one of the... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (07:14) Sure. Right. right? Right? Nice. Kathy Guillory (07:31) know, challenges as my long-term, my six-month interim engagement ran out. And I was like, okay, now I need new clients. And so then I started really shaking the trees, right? So I would say January of 2024 was when I got really, really serious. And that was my first niche. So my very first one, kind of looked holistically across my experience. And my very first one was in this multi-location franchise space. And I was like, okay, I got this. Like I've worked for some very large, you know, corporations where I've managed multiple locations. started my career working for Simon malls. I was like, this will translate well. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (07:51) Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (08:00) You know, I worked in the animal space. I worked in the med spa space again across these like large consolidators and for 2024 that was really the area I focused in on right. I got a couple of clients from that space. I'll say again the challenge with that particular niche is it is horizontal versus vertical. So LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (08:05) Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. with the men's bath space, Kathy, is that what you're saying? So tell us a little bit what that means. Kathy Guillory (08:26) Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, so in the sense of like, when you say I'm going after financial services, that is a specific vertical, right? So you can go after financial services, you can do FinTech, you can do banks with branches, you could do payment processing, right? You're essentially staying within that industry and you can kind of go up and down on company size and really focus on your expertise as in financial services. But I felt like as a marketer, you my experience was so broad and my career was so... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (08:34) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (08:55) so diverse that I didn't necessarily want to limit myself to like one industry, to one vertical. So my ICP was a business with three or more physical locations that was serving consumers. So anybody could fall in there, like if it was a franchise or if it was a consolidator, like my old employer, or it was like a bank, right? So essentially anybody. And what I found is it is really, really difficult to market to an audience that is that broad. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (08:57) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Kathy Guillory (09:24) Right? You know, one of the things we always say as marketers is when you're marketing to everybody, you're marketing to nobody. Right. And the cobbler's kids have no shoes. Right. Is also something else we say as marketers. It's really hard to force yourself because you're like, well, I could really market anybody. I could do this and I could do this. And I've done that. And it's not to say that you can't. It's just what niching allows you to do is really focusing on who are you going to go after first. Right. So then when I LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (09:30) Right? It's true. Right. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (09:54) When I sort of flipped that switch, once you figure out who your target audience is, everything becomes easier. Your messaging becomes easier, who you're talking to, like writing content becomes easier, right? Because you can like really get specific and, you know, talk to them and really get inside their heads. So like last fall when I was getting a little bit closer, but I was still flirting with this franchise space. And I was, one of my ICPs was called Franchise Frank. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (10:02) and then. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (10:20) Right? Like he was a CEO of a, he was a franchise or he had 12 locations and all of my content would be like, you know, I would actually start writing like franchise Frank, do you have this problem? It sounds like you need this solution. Right. And that made it so much easier. because at that point you are, you know, it's no longer one to the masses, right? It's no longer, just throwing spaghetti at a wall or as I actually like to call it random acts of marketing, right? Where you have like all sorts of different. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (10:45) Right. Kathy Guillory (10:48) dispersed activities and you're really busy, but they're not focused. So you're really lacking that focus and clarity. So you're not really getting the results you need because your attention is scattered and it's really, really dispersed across lots of different audiences. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (10:50) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. There's a couple of things I want to touch on there, Kathy, because there's just so much so much goodness in there. One of the things you said, is you start with them first. Like picking any niche doesn't mean like I wrote first, not forever. So when you're picking a niche, it's not like you pick this one niche and you're like, OK, for the rest of this business's life, for the rest of my life, I'm sticking, you know, with the pet businesses or I'm sticking with meds. It's just Kathy Guillory (11:10) Please. Sure? Yeah. Yes. Totally. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (11:33) first is Kathy Guillory (11:34) Yeah. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (11:34) just so you can get more strategic and create a consistent pipeline. And I think that's really important because we all feel like, I got to pick a niche, like, oh, but then I got to turn other people away if this and we'll get to that. But no, no, you don't have to do that. It's just so you can talk to somebody that understands that you're talking to them and you have the solution to their pain, right? Like in that specific way. And what I also loved is that you said you sat down and wrote to Frank, right? Like, and so tell us a little Kathy Guillory (11:57) Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (12:03) bit more about that process of when you like, okay, I'm going to pick this niche and I'm going to talk to this person a little bit about those exercises that helped you get more in the headspace to connect with that ICP ideal customer profile, and then actually connect with a potential business. Kathy Guillory (12:22) Yeah, I think that piece is really, really important. we tend to think in terms of, know, we're thinking about our ICPs, we think in terms of like, what's my industry? What's my vertical? What's the role, right? For a lot of us consultants, like we're focusing on CEOs, their attention is really hard to get, right? Specifically on LinkedIn. They are on LinkedIn, but they're more often than not, they're the lurkers. They're not really the ones who are creating content or engaging with you or having those conversations, right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (12:33) Mm-hmm. and Right. Kathy Guillory (12:50) So one of the challenges is like, okay, so it's franchise Frank. What is his, why is he coming to me? Like what are a couple of the reasons that Frank would come to me? And then I sat down and actually wrote them down. He is new to a role. He is the new CEO of this franchise business. That's a good reason. You come in, you evaluate all the functions. Marketing is usually one of the first ones because it's the... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (13:03) Thank you. Kathy Guillory (13:12) Well, it's the one with the highest turnover, first of all, right, in the C-suite, but then also it's one of the more visible ones, right? So if marketing is not working properly, the rest of the organization really, really feels it. So that was one of the triggers, right? One of the kind of why now questions was Frank is new in his role. The other was there's been a lot of turnover in marketing, right? Maybe he's on his second or third CMO. Maybe they've gone through a lot of people underneath the CMO, right? They're just leading talent, right? What's the reason for that? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (13:14) Good day. sure. Mm-hmm. Thank Kathy Guillory (13:41) really trying to dive into why is there so much turnover in this function? Why is it not working? A couple of other reasons, they're entering a new market, right? And they're entering a new market with different competitive forces. So what does that look like, right? Are they going into a busier market? Is it more saturated? Is what got them here not going to get them to the next 50 locations, to the next 100 locations? That's often the case. Probably won't, right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (13:50) You know what I the green. It probably won't, right? It probably won't. Whether it's starting from zero to one or 50 to 100, something's going to have to change. Kathy Guillory (14:12) Right, exactly, right. Exactly, and then a couple of smaller ones like sales are down or there's a new mandate for growth, right? So if you're a business that's always had corporate owned locations, all of a sudden you decided to franchise, right? So you need new systems, you need new tools. Again, it's the whole, what got you here won't get you to the next step. So really trying to identify who I'm talking to and then what is the moment in time when we're having the conversation, which I thought was so important. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (14:27) Thanks. Kathy Guillory (14:41) from a content perspective, right? And then once I identified that, I would speak about, you know, things like you're new on the job and you really want to, you know, evaluate if marketing is working. How do you do that, right? Can your existing team do that? Or does it make more sense to bring in an outside consultant to do that? You know, I've always been a big fan of coming in as an external person and being able to make those hard decisions and recommendations without the bias of we've always done it this way. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (14:42) Thank you. in the field. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (15:07) Right? Because when it's your decision, when it's your marketing team, how critically can you really look at it? Right? How objective can you be versus somebody new coming in with a fresh set of eyes and evaluating it from the ground up? that identifying that moment in time really drove a lot of that early content, I think. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (15:18) Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, then so when you were doing this because I think like we were saying Entrepreneurs might worry that niching down will limit the opportunities. Why do you think the opposite is true Kathy? Kathy Guillory (15:39) I think the opposite is true because people are very, very busy and people don't really read a lot, right? They skim. They skim your content, they skim your profile. So something as simple as like having in your LinkedIn headline what you do, what you offer and who you are for is critical because it lets the right people know that you are for them and it lets the wrong people know that you're not. So they just keep scrolling, right? They just keep going on. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (15:50) Thank you. Mm-hmm. Right. Kathy Guillory (16:06) And so the more you can attract them right away, right? Even something like starting your LinkedIn posts with like dear CEOs or pet care CEOs or franchisers or wherever else, right? You are, you're doing something called client signaling, right? You are putting those keywords out there and you are messaging to those people who you're talking to. You're gonna capture their attention a lot more and you're gonna capture the intention of a lot of other people too. And that's okay. Right? So like in the early days of your business, it is okay to work with whoever you want to work with. mean, honestly, it's always okay to work with whoever you want to work with. Right? I had a client last year who was a, you know, an ESG consultant. He found me on LinkedIn. We hit it off. He was great. Completely outside of my ICP, right? Nothing to do with animals and no physical locations. it was a corporate social responsibility. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (16:46) What is that? What is an ESG? What does that do? Amazing. Yeah. Mm hmm. Kathy Guillory (16:54) Yeah. And so he's based out in Canada. He found me on LinkedIn, like we connected. He was a really nice guy. He needed some positioning and messaging work. And I was like, sure, you know, why not? Would love to help you. Again, as a marketer, a lot of our skills are transferable. So we still can work with anybody we want. Right. That's not just because you have a niche doesn't mean you can't. Nobody will have it's your business. Nobody will ever tell you you can't work with this client. Right. So you can still say yes. So LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (17:02) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right. That's so true. Yes. Kathy Guillory (17:19) You just, you're still free to do that, except what you're doing is you are essentially focusing your external marketing efforts to really speak to that one ideal customer. So when they come across you and your resources, your content, your profile, they know, Hey, she's for me, right? She is talking to me and she is really, you know, here to help me. Let me read more. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (17:34) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that because it's so true where we get a head trap or a mind trap where we think, oh no, I can't do that or I have to focus on this one. It's like, no, you can work with, you can do whatever you want. what, what, you know, give. Kathy Guillory (17:51) Right. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (17:57) Whatever you want and you are you are in charge. You are the boss You can you know, you want to take a look at any client, right? You don't have to even if it's totally out of your your niche like you can do it You are the boss and like don't the niece the niche is wonderful It allows you to focus and write like signal to people but it doesn't exclude others if you don't want it to it's the beauty of of having the best of both worlds like essentially in a way Kathy Guillory (17:58) Really? Of course. Of course. any client. course. Absolutely. And all of sudden, if you find that you're getting referrals from a client at a different vertical, you could always expand. This whole, this is where you start, this is not forever. And I think once you get a little bit clearer about that, it becomes easier to sort of let that go. It just becomes easier to let that go. And as marketers, I think we preach so much of this to our clients, but we're not always really good about doing this for ourselves. So the more specific you can be, I would say at first, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (18:30) Mmm. Right. Of course not forever. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kathy Guillory (18:52) you know, first pick your industry, right? Pick the decision maker and not just the decision maker. I think there are a couple of people in any organization that could influence the decision, right? So like, for instance, for me, it was, you know, the CFO, right? So I found that CFOs have a great, you know, they're worried about the marketing investments. They have great perspective on this. So if you come across a CFO, they're talking about ROI and they see a post about ROI or something along those lines, they'll very quickly flag it to the CEO. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (18:55) with you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Girl, why? Kathy Guillory (19:20) And I, you my undergrad degree is in finance. So I've always found a really good like common ground talking to CFOs. Like I understand that, you you need to be profitable. You need to show your ROI. So I tend to just gravitate towards that. And they maybe tend to gravitate towards me in some cases. So it works out well. You know, that's always been a very natural champion for my work inside an organization. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (19:20) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (19:45) So I would say, start with the decision maker, but then also identify three or more people within that organization who could also be the ones who flag your work and bring it in. Because they're gonna be really important, right? Having like one or two people who are there, whether it's during due diligence or they're evaluating different vendors or whatever that is, right? Having a couple of people who are just like, no, I think she's it, I think she's it for X, Y, Z reasons. You really want those people on your side. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (20:04) Thank you. Right. Yeah, and I think something also that you said too about targeting these champions targeting the ICP Those might not be the people that are engaging with your content on LinkedIn or like coming to your website, but they are the lurkers. And I love that because so that means, so like, you know, there's a lot of people and something more, you know, we've worked with with clients where they, the people aren't engaging or following or this and like, do you know how many thousands of other people are seeing your posts and seeing this and aren't commenting? Like just because yes, those are very important data points to look at, but there are so many valuable Kathy Guillory (20:23) Right. Yes. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (20:48) people who are lurking and like will see that and will keep that in mind and that could lead to something or like support somebody talking about you and then they come in and check that out right and so I just think that's so important too like don't let that deter you keep posting keep talking to them because you might not know they might just be lurkers on LinkedIn specifically. Kathy Guillory (21:07) Absolutely. And so many people are lurkers. I think I don't know, I'm sure it's changed over the years, but I think I read last year something like, you know, less than less than 5 % of all LinkedIn active users actually share content. And then something like a fraction of that, a fraction of those people will even comment on posts or engage with posts. So that is perfectly normal as well, right? And a lot of people... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (21:10) No. nature, I think. store. We will. Kathy Guillory (21:31) will use LinkedIn and they'll engage with content like, I got a new job or, you know, I relocated or started my own business, but that's it, right? So they're not necessarily engaging with the kind of day-to-day content that the rest of us post. So, and I think it's just really, really important to not let those numbers get you down. Cause when you think about like 500 people, you know, I've been guilty of this too, like, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (21:42) Mm-hmm. Thank Kathy Guillory (21:54) I spent so much time writing this, but only 500 people saw it. I'm rolling my eyes here. And then I think about that and like 500 people is like, that's a full conference ballroom, right? That is like five times the size of an average wedding, right? That's a lot of people. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (21:57) Right. Right. right. Right. Imagine getting up in front of those 500 people and saying out loud to them what you just posted on LinkedIn. You'd be like, like terrified, but you still reach them just so easily just by hitting post. So there's, yeah. Kathy Guillory (22:19) Exactly. it's just, I wouldn't let those numbers necessarily discourage you, right? I would just look deeper beyond the, you know, the impressions, the likes and the clicks to actually see what kind of conversations you're having, which those are always going to be the best indicator of your pipeline. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (22:23) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm, sure. And it's not like, you know, that's just one. execution, right? I'm sure with your smart, you're using sales nav and you're reaching out and you're going to events and you're making connections and there's other things that you're doing as just but one method, but it's a very important method, but also don't be discouraged and think that, yes, every CEO should be commenting and liking this because I wrote it specifically for them. Like that's not necessarily going to be the case, but that does not mean that it's not valuable and that people are noticing what you're doing. So I love that. Kathy Guillory (22:43) Yes. Hmm I could not agree more. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (23:07) Yeah. So tell me, you know, we talked a little bit about like, you don't have to say no, it's up to you. Do you find that there needs to be a balance between staying in your niche and then seeking alternate business outside of it? Like, how do you allow for that business growth and evolution to occur while you're still trying to focus on growing that niche, Kathy? Kathy Guillory (23:30) I think it really depends on your end goals, right? So if you want to become the, you know, the go-to person in your specific niche, then I would probably spend, you know, 90 % or more of your time working in that space, right? You're going to events, you're networking, you're talking to partners, you're talking to other potential referral partners, right? So you're having conversations with people who are also serving that ICP and really being in front of that audience. But if you're someone who... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (23:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (23:55) eventually wants to expand into a more general offering, right? If you're someone who's like, okay, I'm gonna do, you know, healthcare for starters, but eventually I want to go into all managed services or I wanna go into financial services or whatever that looks like, then it makes sense to message to one audience at a time, right? So you do healthcare, you build that up to a certain portfolio size that you're comfortable with, and then you can take those lessons learned from healthcare and start applying them to the other industries. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (24:13) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (24:23) So at that point, you're not coming in cold. It's like, hey, you I have these successes under my belt. I've done XYZ. Here's what I could do for you. So it really just depends on what you're building and what your end goals are. But I would say at first, when you first launch that vertical, you know, your goal should be to spend 90 % or more of your time working within that space. Or now, for that moment. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (24:28) Right. Right. Mm-hmm. did you? Sure did what were some of the challenges you faced when niching down and how did you overcome it? Kathy Guillory (24:54) So my biggest problem was I didn't niche down enough. So when I went through after this multi-location and franchise business, it was still really, really big. So because franchises, you there are restaurants, there are hotels, they are all sorts of different, you know, industries that I had not necessarily worked in before, right? And so one of the things I found is a lot of my referrals and a lot of my work kept coming in, kept still coming from my existing connections in the pet space, in the animal health and the pet space, because I'd worked in that for several years before. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:04) Mm-hmm, true. Press control. Yeah. Kathy Guillory (25:22) And so that signaled to me like, hey, you you didn't niche down enough, right? You need to focus a little bit more on the specific area. And so last fall is really when I decided to make that call. then in January, I sort of flipped the switch. I've did it in my website, updated the messaging and really tried to, I've really tried to like focus in on that new ICP, right? So it's a pet care or an animal health business, right? They still need to be at a certain size. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:45) Right. We can do Kathy Guillory (25:50) They're still going to be in at that inflection point of it'll either be a new CEO or a CMO change or some sort of a mandate for growth. They don't necessarily need to have physical locations I'm finding, right? Because some of them are virtual, some of them are offering like telehealth services or they're more national organizations, but they need to be at a certain place in their business. And what I'm talking about here is, it's marketing budget size, it's size of the team. One of the lessons I learned is that I am not your first marketing hire. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:57) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (26:19) So if you don't have a marketing team, really, really important, right? I need there to be at least two people, two full-time people on the marketing team who are doing marketing execution. I've tried to make exceptions around this and I'm like, I love this client. They're so great. I believe in their mission. I believe in what they're doing. And every single time Leslie I've done this, it's come back to bite me. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (26:19) Right. Very important. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure. You're overwhelmed with the work that they're putting on you, essentially. Is that what you're saying? Kathy Guillory (26:44) Yeah, and then I am, you know, I'm at my fractional CMO. So I have 19 years of experience, and you're paying for that. And so if you're paying for the strategy and then also for the execution of that, you're not getting very good ROI, right? We can find somebody a lot cheaper to post on social media and to write content. It's gonna be a lot more cost effective for your business. So if you have me for a next number of hours or for a certain project, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (26:51) Right. group. Yeah. Right. Kathy Guillory (27:11) and you're using my time on the execution, we're gonna burn those hours really, really quickly. And it's just not, it never works out well, right? And it's always worked out with conversations where either we burn the budget really quickly or we have to find, I have to very quickly scramble to find an external contractor to do this execution and then onboard them, which is a big time commitment as well. So I think the lesson learned is if you have fewer than two people, you're not quite ready for my services in a fractional capacity. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (27:21) Yeah. That's it. Thank you. Kathy Guillory (27:40) Now that's not to say that I'm not gonna talk to them about some sort of a short-term consulting agreement, right? We could still do something, right? It might be that I come in and write a marketing plan, but then go find a team and hire the team. And once the team's in place, I can come on and oversee the execution of it. It just means that I'm not gonna come in as their fractional CMO if they don't have two people dedicated to doing marketing. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (27:53) Mm-hmm. right. Yeah, that's really smart. And here's the thing, that is for you. Like there might be somebody out there listening that's just getting started that might be at a lower level, but with your years of experience and your business and where you're at, that doesn't make sense for you. But I think the great thing is, like there is space for everybody. Like there's no lack of need here in this space with any type of niche. Like there are companies that are multimillion dollar companies that don't have a clue when it comes to branding and marketing and they need somebody to come in and then there's Kathy Guillory (28:10) Totally. Exactly. Totally. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (28:34) little startups and smaller local brands that are just getting started and still need that type of help too. And so I think that it's really important to understand that and, you know, in the sake of money not burning yourself out just to get that money at the end of the day, because I feel like we've all been there and we love what we do as like, feel like creatives and marketers, I always say like, what a gift it's because it's so much fun and you love it. And when you love it, you're going to give all of yourself to it. And then you get in trouble with that. Kathy Guillory (28:47) Exactly. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a struggle, right? And I think that's been a struggle with going from, you know, one kind of in-house, you're in-house, so you have one priority. And then all of a sudden, like you're managing multiple clients and they have multiple needs and it's hard to like, how do you, how do you draw that line? Right? I think that's been one of the, something I've personally struggled with, right? I think I've gotten a little bit better over with it over the past few years, but it's definitely kind of an ongoing theme of like, how do you not, you know, pour yourself into every single thing at 110%. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (29:04) So, yeah. Right. Yeah. Kathy Guillory (29:32) Because now you are serving five or six different clients, right? Or four or five different clients depending on your business model. So how do you reserve some of that energy and that creativity so everybody gets a share and not just one? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (29:36) Mm-hmm. How do you do that, Kathy? What have you found? What's the answer, Kathy? Kathy Guillory (29:47) I'm kidding. Yeah, so I think it really depends, right? I think it depends on the person. So I am, you know, I'm not a morning person by any means, but I find that I do my deepest kind of most creative, most strategic work first thing in the morning. And so I'm pretty disciplined about not, you know, coming in. And if I don't have like client calls or any specific days or whatever client deliverables, I'm really, really diligent about not coming in and just like getting on LinkedIn. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (30:03) Thank Kathy Guillory (30:15) or coming in and getting in my email or starting to clear out my monday.com task list. Because if I do that, my whole day is going to get sucked in. So I really spend like an hour to an hour and a half every morning being disciplined about that creative work. If I need to write a pitch deck, if I'm working on a... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (30:15) Mm. Kathy Guillory (30:32) sales proposal, if I am working on a presentation for a client or anything along those lines, that'll probably get done in that first hour to 90 minutes of the day. And then I'll jump in into the bigger time suck activities. Because then by the end of the day, once the meetings end and once I've caught up on the task list or whatever else, I don't have any juice left for the creative, right? It's all gone. And so it's used up. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (30:45) Mmm. It's really smart. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Kathy Guillory (30:59) right? It's used up. And so then it's just frustrating, right? You start frustrating to kind of feel that way and then you're feeling like, I'm falling behind. So I just think prioritizing it and doing it first thing in the morning works for me. Now that might not work for everybody, right? Some people are like, you know, I work better in the evenings or, you know, I will find time in my busy day to do this. I can't always be so descriptive about it, but my brain just works better when I have that dedicated block of like, this is your deep focus block, no interruptions. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (31:03) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sure. Right. Thank Yeah, and I think that's also something that a lot of creative agency owners... have to learn because you have maybe you've come out of a corporate job where you probably have one client or like one account, right? Like you're working on X account, right? And then you go and you start your agency and you have this client, that client, and you're the one that's managing all that. And you're like, you want to give all of yourself to every single one, but that is just a recipe for disaster. So learning how to be more judicious in honoring yourself and your talent and that client too, it's not going to mean that you're going to give everything to every client. every day and they shouldn't need that quite honestly, right? Like that shouldn't necessarily be something, Like if you, if all your types of clients then you need to reevaluate your client roster. And so I just think that's really, you know, spot on and important. And then I also think, Kathy, do know, do you think it's fortuitous that... Kathy Guillory (32:08) Sure, of course. course. Sure, yeah, I agree. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (32:25) Your name is Belle Bear Marketing and you do pets, that's your niche now, with animals and bears is in your name. Did you like not think of that? Did you make that connection? Kathy Guillory (32:31) It is. Sir? Yeah. I did. I did. I did. Yeah, I actually did a LinkedIn poll at the end of last year and I was like, what do think a group of bears is called? And you'd be surprised, like most people, like 90 % of people thought it meant pack and it's actually not. It's actually sleuth, but nobody knows that. Right? So again, this is one of those like aha marketing moments where in my head I was like, I want to roll out like a product or a service, right? It's like the bear sleuth, but nobody knows what that is. And so it's just like one of those perfect examples of like, right? Right. Well, you know, I do have a dog, golden retriever named Dr. Watson. So I think it's only fitting that I have some sort of like a Sherlock Holmes theme, right? People always ask me and my husband, they're like, how would you name a dog Watson? Like that's such a sidekick name. And I was like, well, you would do that if you're Sherlock, duh. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (32:58) Yeah, like a bear with like a magnifying glass and like a top like a little fedora or something. Yeah, it's all connected. I Right. Hello. You're not seeing how this makes total sense, right? I love you. Kathy Guillory (33:23) Right. But I think, yes, I think the animal piece is really important. And then the pet space, you know, again, I just, I've had so much experience in the space and I've worked with so many great clients in there. And a lot of my stories are about the animal space. So it just, I think it's just like a really natural fit. You know, as soon as I sort of made that switch, things kind of fell into place, right? Like referrals got a lot easier. My outreach got a lot, like my, you know, me connecting with like. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (33:35) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kathy Guillory (33:51) pet care CEOs or animal health CEOs, my response rate from them went up exponentially, right? Because before they were like, fractional CMO, I may not have the number of locations or may not be looking. And now they're like, OK, she's in pet care, she's for me, right? Even if I don't need help right now, she might share something that I'll learn from. And so a lot of that starts more, it's just easier to at least get them in my sphere, which is the very beginning of those conversations, of course. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (34:09) Right. Right. Sure, yeah. If you had to give one piece of advice to a business owner hesitant to commit to a niche, what would that be? Kathy Guillory (34:27) Yeah, say try it. Like try it for a year, right? Just do it. Like rip off the bandaid and do it for a year. Because you could always go back. You could always change things, right? The internet has a very short memory, right? No one's going to know. No one's going to remember. No one but you, right? It's going to remember that six months ago, your niche was something else, right? Unless you remind them. No, because no one is thinking about your business as much time as you are. Like no one is reading your LinkedIn content the way that you are. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (34:38) Me. Me. Mm-hmm. That is true. So true. Right? Kathy Guillory (34:56) scrutinizing it at the end of the day. So just try it. Be as specific as possible. And if you find that it's too niche, it's too specific, then you could always expand. You could always expand. And the market will tell you really, really quickly. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (34:59) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And like you said, first, not for forever. First, not forever. Let's do it. Kathy Guillory (35:17) Right, it's your first, it is your first ICP. It is not necessarily your forever ICP. And then, you know, you could always, always add other verticals. Like that healthcare example, go into healthcare, do a really, really good job in healthcare. Take those examples and then apply it to financial services, right? Apply it to something else. Like it is, once you have a demonstrated track record of success in one industry, it is so easy to translate that to others. But if you are going in and you're... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (35:31) rain. Kathy Guillory (35:44) trying to market to everybody, especially in your early days as a founder, you're really going to just, you're going to be spinning your wheels for a long time and just, it's going to take you a lot longer to get traction than if you focus. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (35:52) Yeah. Right, we don't want the wheels to spin. We want them to move forward, take us forward. We want that progress, baby. I love it. Awesome. Anything else on niching down for those riches? The riches are in the niches, Kathy, before we wrap up. Kathy Guillory (36:01) Correct. Exactly. They really are, you know, and I would say like do some research on LinkedIn, right? LinkedIn is great. Even if you don't have sales navigator, just go in and look for, you know, who you think your ICP might be like, know, CEOs, healthcare, CEOs, know, restaurants or wherever else. And it'll give you a really good, it's just like high level number of people that are, you know, potentially, that could potentially be your ICPs and start, you can start connecting with them, right? You could connect with, you know, up to, I think it's up to 150 people now. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (36:18) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kathy Guillory (36:42) You could have up to 150 different outstanding connection requests and then you just have to go in and clear out some of the old ones or LinkedIn will let you send in new connection requests. So just stay on top of that, but do some of that research when we really talk about your total addressable market. We talk about your serviceable addressable market and then really the. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (36:48) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Thank Kathy Guillory (37:02) The subset of that is the market that you can realistically go after with your resources. That should be part of your strategic plan over the next couple of years. Do that exercise. And the more specific you are, the easier it's going to be to get traction. You can always go broader. You can always expand. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (37:13) brain. Yeah. So true, so true. The bulls eye always, you can expand it. And I think also too what you said about LinkedIn and look for those ICPs within LinkedIn. And like you said, connect with them and ask to have a conversation with them. And I think we've all found that just reaching out and showing interest in a business, in a person. Kathy Guillory (37:25) Right. Totally. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (37:41) Most people will generally say, sure, I'll give you 30 minutes of my time or 20 minutes of my time to connect and chat. As long as they don't feel like you're overtly selling something at the get-go. But you don't want to do that. Anyways, you're trying to learn if they even need help. And if they don't, what do they like about that agency they're working with right now? What's been working for them in the past? And there's so much value in those conversations that don't end with somebody signing a dotted line. It's all about that network and building up that knowledge that you have about your ICP2. Kathy Guillory (38:14) Absolutely. would say even just like casual, like you connect with somebody and say, Hey, thanks so much for accepting my connection request. You know, I talk about marketing on LinkedIn. I usually do a couple of deep dives a week about specific topics. Is there anything that I can cover for you? Right? Where it's like a quick, like, Hey, is there anything that you're curious about? Right? Is there anything that, you know, no commitments, like you're not really getting them on a call. Right? And then when you write content to address that, right? Share it with them, right? Be like, Hey, you know, I know we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. Like, will you LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (38:17) Yeah. Ooh, I'm that happy. we Great. And I don't Brilliant. Kathy Guillory (38:42) take a look at this, right? You LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (38:44) Yeah. Kathy Guillory (38:44) know, happy to have a follow-up conversation. And then you are giving them what they need, right? You're essentially answering whatever that nugget of information is. And so when they do have a need, that seed has already been planted, like, hey, this person knows, you your name is gonna be a little more top of mind. And it's also gonna be, you've already given them something, you've already added value, so it's a little bit easier. And I've also read that, I keep saying and a lot. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (38:55) guys. Yes. Yes. Look at that. Kathy Guillory (39:08) I also read that people who you have active LinkedIn messages with are more likely to see your posts as like part of the algorithm. So there is value in having that, establishing that dialogue. And again, not like salesy, right? Cause we all know those people who the second you connect, there's like an automated sales pitch. I'm not saying do that, but like having a genuine open conversation where you're adding value, even if it's just a little bit is valuable. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (39:13) Thank out. Mm-hmm. the Yeah, I love that suggestion so much. I'm going to go and do that to different people. This makes so much sense. I just, yeah, thank you so much. That was fantastic. I mean, this whole conversation has been so fantastic. I'm so appreciative to have you here, Kathy. Tell everybody before we wrap up where they can find you on LinkedIn, where they can find Belle Bear, and all the good stuff there. Kathy Guillory (39:40) Good! I love it! See? Good! Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on my website, bellebearmarketing.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn. It's under Kathy Guillory. I post a lot. I try to post at least once a day. I talk about marketing. I talk about working parenthood. I talk about women in leadership. So try to really talk about other things besides just my four services, because I think it's important, right? At the end of the day, people do business with people. And so I think it's really important to connect with people on a personal level and LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (40:19) review. Thank you. Kathy Guillory (40:30) to really work with like-minded businesses that either share your goals or share your vision for the world. So think that piece is really important. I tried to weave that into all of my content. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (40:38) Mm-hmm. Yes, I love your content. It's amazing. Fantastic. Anybody listening, make sure you're following Kathy. And we are so thankful that you tuned in with us today to talk how the riches are in the niches. This has been Serious Lady Business. We will talk to you all again soon. Thank you, Kathy. Bye. Kathy Guillory (40:44) Thank you.