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Why Didn't I See That Coming? · The Pause Before You Lead

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What was uncovered in that conversation when they were starting to make decisions around workload and roles and responsibilities and who was going to have what within the team, they were making decisions based on that history of knowing that person.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And my curiosity got piqued in that conversation.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked the leader, what does this person say when you ask them about it?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a long, slightly uncomfortable pause because the leader's response was, I haven't asked them.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Pause Before You Lead.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Alicia Saint, and I'm Heather Haig.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Together, we've both led teams inside large organizations.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: And over the past decade, we've coached and partnered with hundreds of leaders and teams navigating complexity.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen, felt, heard, and supported leaders through the challenging and sometimes really messy parts of leadership.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And while a lot has changed, many of the patterns that quietly take leaders off track just keep showing up.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: We work with leaders who don't want to lose momentum, but who know that clearer thinking is what makes momentum sustainable.
• 1:31
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• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And leaders who know there's a better way to think, lead, and respond in those moments.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Each week, we bring you real conversations drawn from our work with leaders and teams.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Where speed matters, stakes are high, and the quality of your thinking shapes everything.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So in each episode, we're going to pause just long enough to think more clearly, to see what's really going on, make better decisions, and build high-value teams.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're listening before the day takes over, on your way to work, or in the middle of a full day, this is your pause without losing momentum.
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  SPEAKER_01: So before we begin, take a breath and join us.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Alicia Saint.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And this week we are going to explore the theme of why didn't I see this coming?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's um, Heather, I'm excited for you to share this, your your um theme or share more about this theme.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's been you've noticed coming up in your coaching lately around making assumptions and thinking that you know things that maybe you don't know.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, can you share some of the questions?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: It and I smiled when you said, you know, uh how didn't I see that coming, or why didn't I see that coming?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that the things that surprise us occur more often when we approach interactions with others from a place of certainty, when we feel like we just know.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And as we're stepping in, this is a theme I've seen with some of the clients that I've been working with lately.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, a conversation that I had with my son last night, uh my oldest son, and we were talking about how easily he connects with people and builds relationships with people.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things he said to me is, I read people really well.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that statement for me stuck with me because I immediately felt within myself uh I wanted to caution him to be aware of how easily when we think we can read people, we can make assumptions.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it just sort of triggered a this is a topic that's been coming up a lot.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just came up last night in conversation.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the universe said this is our theme for today.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I totally.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is I think that there's varying degrees of how this shows up.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So in some cases, some leaders who've been working with team members for an extended period of time can almost get into this rhythm of we just know each other.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: We we we get each other.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: We can tell what the other person is thinking without saying anything.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's a beautiful, magical, wonderful place to be in a relationship.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I've noticed for myself that in those kinds of dynamics, I mean, even you and me in in our interactions, how easy it is for me to assume I know why you're um expressing something the way you are.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we've been working together for 10 years.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so how easy it is for me, you share something and I go, I know where that's coming from, and I fill in whatever gaps without just sort of saying, hmm, interesting.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Say a little bit more about that.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time, if I check back in with you, what you share more of is not what my assumptions were.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not to say I'm completely off base and don't know you, but my filling in the gaps potentially leads me to miss something really important.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've had a new experience that's informed your way of thinking differently than the last time we talked about a topic, for example.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I'm seeing with this, this with leaders, um in one instance, this is a situation where the team members have been working together for quite a long time.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that natural assumption of I know them, they know me, um, and the decisions that that the leader can sometimes make based on a foundation of we just get each other.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in this particular instance, what we were talking about was capacity for that individual, not capacity for the leader, but for the person they'd been working with for quite a long time.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what was uncovered in that conversation when they were starting to make decisions around workload and roles and responsibilities and who was going to have what within the team, they were making decisions based on that history of knowing that person.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And my curiosity got piqued in that conversation.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked the leader, what does this person say when you ask them about it?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a long, slightly uncomfortable pause because the leader's response was, I haven't asked them.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in that moment, it it was an aha because how might that leader be filling in the gaps of assumptions being made because of the history?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I know how this person operates, so I can make these decisions and I know they'll be okay with them.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And to not check in and just either validate or get new information that says, oh, actually the way that I was thinking about this might not be what's best for this individual.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um on the flip side, I'm also seeing leaders who've had who've hired new people to their team.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't have the history, but they um understand people, pick up on people's cues, feel like they can, they can see what the skills of other people are and are kind of doing the same thing.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So through a really brief conversation, might fill in the gaps and start to make assumptions of this person likes or is really good at doing this.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always fascinated by that because I will sort of say, well, how do you know that they're really good at that?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think in both cases, a couple of things might be happening.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: If I just kind of check in with myself, it's the it's faster to know to fill in the gaps, like I can move at a faster pace if I fill in the pieces versus taking the time to slow down and check in.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also this sense of I'm usually right when I do this.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so therefore, my past history of being right informs my ability to make decisions based on my assumptions.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the validity of past assumptions almost creating that dynamic.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the part for me that I'm sitting with and curious about in this conversation with you, Alicia, is is, you know, how do we catch ourselves when we're when we're operating from those places of assumptions, especially knowing the surprises that occur when we shift.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the and the knowing assumptions, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and what also struck me when you were saying that is where could this be coming from?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think another one I would add to that list that you that you shared was I'm the boss, so I'm supposed to know.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is my job to know.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's my job to be always rebalancing roles and responsibilities and managing capacity.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's um a knowing in that, right?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was a bit of a um, yeah.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is my job to know.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: My recovering expert gets activated in this conversation.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it's it's it's not, you know, we're not saying it's wrong.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're just we're inviting, you know, your your what you're sharing here is really inviting our listeners to just take a pause and and check in and go, wow, how many times do I think I know?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And do I really know?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I hear you sharing, right?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do I really know?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Where am I making assumptions?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Am I filling in the gaps?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And in that moment to then, you know, to then move to curiosity, as you said, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And what would be what are some questions that we might offer for people to think about when they catch themselves?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know there's there's some internal questions, I think, like if we go internally, and then there may also be some external questions.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I sort of go with the internal questions first, which is um how how do I know what I believe I know?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So may so maybe the first one is what do I think I know?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Which is kind of that exploration we were having with with these these leaders, then how have I been informed of this?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that the really important question internally is um is it possible something something is different than what I'm seeing?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you were gonna, yeah, and I'm smiling because I thought it was gonna happen for you.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know, because I thought you were gonna bring up one of your favorite questions, which is what if my assumptions are wrong?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or what if, you know, what if what if I actually don't know?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean, I think that that um that that could that could be certainly a question.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it's kind of the starting to recognize how often we are validating our beliefs based on evidence that's not present in the current moment.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, as we're talking about this, I'm I'm I'm thinking about with our clients, we may offer to be the sort of sounding board to walk through a conversation.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And especially like the tough conversations, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have a difficult conversation with a member of your team, or maybe even a colleague, a peer, or your boss.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they and they're like, can we just sort of you know try this on and see what I would say?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens is a desire to want to map out the entire conversation.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like let's play both parts and plan out I I know this other person, I know what they're likely to say.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they map out the whole conversation versus more of a check, like who do I need to be in support of this conversation?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've just mapped out the whole conversation in advance, first of all, yeah, how might I be wrong?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But second of all, uh, how might I lead a conversation versus showing up with what you've identified, which is the genuine curiosity that says, um, what if I what if I don't think I know?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: What if I know nothing?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: What if I I this is a blank page and I really want to know.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and then at the end of the conversation, you go, oh, okay.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So now all of this all is like you cross, cross-check.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I did know that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, check.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't know these other two things.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Completely.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Completely.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the danger here is the more I think I know what that other person's motivations, drivers, their thinking process is, the less open I am to actually really hear from them what their perspective is.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just thinking when you said that, like a question, like, what am I, what am I missing here?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: What am what do you think, what am I making assumptions about?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and noticing that if the question sort of sort of um, if it if you feel some kind of resistance to the what am I missing, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: It could it it it may be what might I be missing?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not to say for certain that we're wrong.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, for leaders that have been leading for a long time, again, a lot of the assumptions come from validation of assumptions being right previously, right?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't come out of thin air.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: The the challenge is that even if you've worked with a person for a long time, in the current moment, in the current conversation, the drivers that might be impacting them right now, if we're present in the now, may not in any way have anything to do with all the things we know about that person before.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's been such a uh um a big aha for me in our relationship is that recognition that, yeah, we've been through a lot.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot about your story, you know a lot about my story, but even still, we can surprise each other with the what's happened in the last 24 hours that's impacting the way you're experiencing something right now.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I like how you reframed it, like, what might I?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's a vulnerability there, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what might I be, what might we be missing here?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: What might we not know yet?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and what question uh might be useful for both of us to learn more about how to proceed from here?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's also this sort of collective thinking that can kind of evolve when I don't come to the table with all the answers in advance of a conversation, but instead come and say, uh I know this is this is something that you've given me a sliver of insight to.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm aware of my likelihood of extrapolating a significant amount of meaning.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you could you could even say to me, you know, uh, I'm really frustrated with our last conversation.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I might, in taking that information, go, there's a big problem.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Alicia never says stuff like that to me.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I need to worry about, like, there's a lot that I've done.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm replaying a whole bunch of tapes of old stuff that I've now bring into this conversation.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think if we if we spent less time trying to know and more time sitting in the not knowing or the curiosity of that, then instead of me making meaning of, you know, I need to talk to you about our last conversation, I go, what's what's showing up for you?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's tell me about where you're coming from.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And how might I be more present in that conversation versus all the replays of potential ways this conversation could go just from that one sentence.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I think yeah, that's really beautifully said.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's also to reminding us that our brain is wired to make meaning of everything because that's efficiency.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Faster it can make meaning of something, it's got it sorted, move on to the next thing, move on to the next thing, right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: So this isn't a flaw, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is just how our brain operates.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And for the brain, it's the most efficient way to operate, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Label it, make meaning of it, solve it, move on.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and just yeah, to invite the pause that goes, do I really know?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you get surprised by something, right?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like going back to our title, you know, why didn't I see that that coming?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great opportunity to take a pause and just go, hmm.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Why didn't I see that coming?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I and it's interesting because I always find through our our conversations things uh things sort of evolve and transform in them.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because if I don't have a plan or an assumption I'm making about th how things are gonna go, then I'm probably never gonna be surprised by the outcome.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't think it was gonna go a certain way.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So can I, can I write, release from that advanced planning or meaning making, can I just show up and be like, of course I don't know how this conversation's gonna go?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't that kind of freeing in a way that I I'm not obligated to have it all figured out figured out before it even happens.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and like if I come in openness and curiosity and presence in a conversation each time, then I I'm not shall ever be surprised in a way that challenges my thinking.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I more might be surprised with a, I didn't know I was gonna learn that today.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that fascinating?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Our favorite thing.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that fascinating?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't it?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really, really, yeah, that's yeah, I really like that.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's a place to for us to sort of rap on, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's just this there's so much lightness in what you just said and and fun, and I just felt the weight come off my shoulders.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um and there's trust in that, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Just trusting like we'll both be okay if I don't know.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I do think there's a lot of pressure.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love that that you felt that lightness that just sort of that that almost playful Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: What what could surprise us in this conversation?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, imagine flipping it on its head, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like wow, why didn't I see that coming?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, isn't that great?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't see that coming.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: What might I not see coming in this next conversation, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And just really because really what do what do we know in this new world that's happening each and every day?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Each and every day that that there's something new, there's something that's changed, there's something wow what what's showing up today.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what's showing up today?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it feels like it's a good place to pause.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for the pause before you lead.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: Enjoy next time.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining the pause before you lead.
• 22:11
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• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because more leaders need space to think clearly in the moments that matter.
• 22:21
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• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: We shape these conversations for you.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Before you move on to what's next, pause just for a moment.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And notice what might change if you led from here.