Latest / Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast / Queen's Body Double Sentenced To PRISON | Gary Connery

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Queen's Body Double Sentenced To PRISON | Gary Connery · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Hello friends, I'm your host, Chris Throuw. I'm a former
0:05
Speaker 1: Ruleries commando. I've adventured for better and sometimes worse, across
0:11
Speaker 1: eighty countries on all seven confidents. Welcome to the Port
0:16
Speaker 1: the t Shirt podcast. Gary. How you doing mate?
0:28
Speaker 2: Yeah good, Thanks for having me back on, Chris, It's
0:31
Speaker 2: good to see you.
0:32
Speaker 1: Hey. Absolutely, I mean last time we chatted it was
0:37
Speaker 1: for me. It is the whole reason I started a
0:39
Speaker 1: podcast like this is I like chatting with fascinating people
0:44
Speaker 1: that do stuff that I'd really like to do myself.
0:47
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of living vicariously for friends at home.
0:52
Speaker 1: I'm just going to show you another clip that I
0:54
Speaker 1: didn't shirt at the beginning. There some of you might
1:03
Speaker 1: recognize dumb Dum dump. Some of you might recognize this
1:09
Speaker 1: as the London Olympics. That's why you apologies. I've got
1:23
Speaker 1: clips on our former podcasts popping in their garri kit.
1:27
Speaker 1: It gets confusing for people. But yes, so first person
1:33
Speaker 1: to land in a wingsuit without a parachute. That was
1:37
Speaker 1: the first clip that I showed people. And then also
1:41
Speaker 1: you probably I don't know to my knowledge, being the
1:45
Speaker 1: only body double for the Late Queen rest In peace. Uh,
1:55
Speaker 1: and yeah, we had a great, great chat about your
1:59
Speaker 1: stomach work. Do you want to talk a bit about
2:02
Speaker 1: that now, Gary, or should we get more into the Yeah?
2:06
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, look, I mean, let's also talk about
2:09
Speaker 2: what you've achieved since we last spoke, because you've been
2:13
Speaker 2: tell us what you've done, you know. I'm sure your
2:16
Speaker 2: listeners probably know anyway. But I mean, I'm amazed that
2:19
Speaker 2: you've gone away and rode across the Atlantic. I'm guessing you,
2:23
Speaker 2: under that smart shirt that you've put on for this,
2:25
Speaker 2: you must be totally ripped. I have another friend who
2:30
Speaker 2: rode the Atlantic some time ago, and he came back
2:33
Speaker 2: totally ripped, and he's managed to maintain that. So go on,
2:36
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about that, Chris. I'd love
2:38
Speaker 2: to hear some more.
2:39
Speaker 1: Yes, I'll tell you what. Let's just talk about me.
2:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, do you know what, It's
2:45
Speaker 2: going to be far more interesting than the last four
2:48
Speaker 2: years of my life, which have been fascinating in their
2:51
Speaker 2: own way. But go on, I'd love to hear a
2:52
Speaker 2: bit more about your owing.
2:54
Speaker 1: Yes, mate, So thank you very kindly that you ask
2:59
Speaker 1: we Louie and I fellow veteran Louis. We rode from
3:03
Speaker 1: Africa to Barbados, so across the Atlantic to shine a
3:07
Speaker 1: light for all those veterans out there who might be
3:10
Speaker 1: struggling with their mental health, for people who have going
3:13
Speaker 1: through what you've been through, Gary, who might think that
3:16
Speaker 1: there's no one out there for them, or particularly you know,
3:21
Speaker 1: we got this horrible climate of people taking their own
3:25
Speaker 1: life in the veterans community, and Louis and I just
3:29
Speaker 1: want to say, look, we've been there. He's been through
3:32
Speaker 1: chronic brain trauma and it's you know, the guy's got
3:35
Speaker 1: two holes in his head, still affects him massively to
3:40
Speaker 1: this day. And that was quite you know, that was
3:43
Speaker 1: something we had to negotiate. You could say on this
3:47
Speaker 1: twenty foot rowing boat for fifty days, but the guy
3:52
Speaker 1: lives in paradise. You know the same as myself. I've
3:54
Speaker 1: been through chronic addiction, chronic ill mental health. And you know,
4:02
Speaker 1: if you hang in there and take all this as experience,
4:06
Speaker 1: then the universe provides for you and there is always
4:12
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel. So we did that.
4:14
Speaker 1: We raised a few quid for Scotty's Little Soldiers and
4:18
Speaker 1: elaborate I'll try and put a link below. Folks, if
4:22
Speaker 1: I can remember, if you want to chuck a fiver
4:25
Speaker 1: to those charities. But yeah, Gary, that's the official bump
4:28
Speaker 1: out the way. Has it ever appeal to you that
4:34
Speaker 1: kind of crossing?
4:38
Speaker 2: I guess honestly no. But when I do listen to
4:41
Speaker 2: other people in the fact, I mean, you said fifty
4:43
Speaker 2: days in a twenty foot rowing boat, and all I
4:46
Speaker 2: had visions of was you holding your mum over the
4:48
Speaker 2: side when you need to have a pooh. But my
4:50
Speaker 2: guess is that I don't know I would imagine, and
4:56
Speaker 2: you tell me that, I guess you're living on a
4:59
Speaker 2: lot of dehydrated and rehydrated foods, boiling the bag kitan
5:04
Speaker 2: of stuff, you know, and and the amount of effort
5:08
Speaker 2: that you're probably putting in. I'm guessing you're burning up
5:11
Speaker 2: so much of what your intake is anyway that I mean,
5:15
Speaker 2: you know, you've given a very very brief overview of
5:19
Speaker 2: what you did and why you did it, But in
5:21
Speaker 2: terms of the actual mechanics of it, I guess most
5:23
Speaker 2: people know nothing about it. So from that perspective, I
5:27
Speaker 2: have an interest in it, and how would I do it?
5:31
Speaker 2: And obviously who would I ask people who have done
5:35
Speaker 2: it before and what spin could could you know another
5:39
Speaker 2: individual put on it? I don't know. I think it's
5:42
Speaker 2: a bonkers thing. Well, did you have brightening moments?
5:46
Speaker 3: Was it?
5:47
Speaker 2: You know? Did you have shark fins popping out next
5:49
Speaker 2: to you and your bums over the side? What did
5:51
Speaker 2: you experience?
5:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had all that, but we did manage to
5:55
Speaker 1: capsize about one thousand miles off shore, which was interesting
6:01
Speaker 1: a few seconds underwater, sat there in your rowing seat
6:05
Speaker 1: thinking is our beautiful little Isabelle going to pop back
6:09
Speaker 1: up right again? And unfortunately she did. And I said
6:15
Speaker 1: to Louis all along, if we capsize, I'll be laughing
6:17
Speaker 1: my ass off, Louis. That's that's just part and part
6:20
Speaker 1: of being a former rule marine is I will be laughing.
6:26
Speaker 1: I hope you can join me. And I think Louis
6:29
Speaker 1: did go a bit quiet for the quiet for the day.
6:32
Speaker 1: But I thought Isabelle did the job that you know
6:36
Speaker 1: she's designed to do, which is capsized and then pop
6:39
Speaker 1: up right again, even though it took about ten seconds
6:43
Speaker 1: to water.
6:45
Speaker 2: I bet in that moment you never felt more alive.
6:48
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I'm going to put something to you because
6:53
Speaker 1: you've done similar you've put together huge challenges and mind
7:00
Speaker 1: right in saying Gary, it's not the row. I mean,
7:03
Speaker 1: the row is one part of it. It's the build
7:07
Speaker 1: up that is the thing, and it's the thing that
7:12
Speaker 1: nobody asks you about because the only see the glossy glory,
7:16
Speaker 1: you know, dagger in the teeth, hero stuff, or at
7:20
Speaker 1: least that's how they perceive it. It's obviously very different
7:24
Speaker 1: for us mere mortals that are just living our lives. Really,
7:27
Speaker 1: but I mean, how long did you have to prepare
7:34
Speaker 1: to land that wingsuit without a parachute?
7:37
Speaker 2: Do you know what? It's fascinating you bring this up.
7:39
Speaker 2: And I don't know whether we touched on it last time,
7:42
Speaker 2: but I can honestly say that after I landed the wingsuit,
7:46
Speaker 2: and I will come back to your original question of
7:47
Speaker 2: how long, but after I landed the wingsuit, it took
7:51
Speaker 2: maybe three hours for me to then just have this
7:55
Speaker 2: massive low of now thinking, Christ, now what it's over.
8:01
Speaker 2: It's done, because I'd had from the first time I
8:04
Speaker 2: jumped out of an aircraft on a wing suit, I
8:06
Speaker 2: think it was back in two thousand and three, right
8:09
Speaker 2: up to the point in twenty twelve when I did it.
8:12
Speaker 2: My head a huge part of the brain space had
8:16
Speaker 2: been taken up with landing a wingsuit, and all of
8:19
Speaker 2: a sudden, once it's over, you realize that it's not
8:22
Speaker 2: about the destination. It's about the journey. It's the people
8:27
Speaker 2: you meet, the tears of pain, the tears of joy,
8:30
Speaker 2: the places you go both physically and mentally, you know,
8:33
Speaker 2: the whole experience, the variety of life within that one project.
8:41
Speaker 2: It's about that, it's not about the end result. And
8:46
Speaker 2: I'm guessing it's a guess, but tell us, did you
8:50
Speaker 2: experience the same?
8:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a funny one. I mean, I chatted
8:56
Speaker 1: with with Blue on phone the other day and we're
8:59
Speaker 1: both sort of have you thought about it and thought
9:03
Speaker 1: about it talk? I'm like, yeah, me the same. It's
9:07
Speaker 1: kind of seeing other people's reaction is like, we did
9:11
Speaker 1: it because we wanted to do it, and that's how
9:13
Speaker 1: we live our lives. I guess for other people, they
9:16
Speaker 1: see it as ay, they're able maybe to soak in
9:21
Speaker 1: more what a monumental thing it is to row us
9:24
Speaker 1: twenty foot boat for three thousand miles through all kinds
9:28
Speaker 1: of conditions. I guess we get a bit humble, don't we,
9:32
Speaker 1: because we just know it's just what we want to do.
9:34
Speaker 1: And there is always that low bit of a low afterwards,
9:42
Speaker 1: isn't there that where you get your life back together
9:46
Speaker 1: and you realize how much it's consumed you. You Basically
9:51
Speaker 1: I had to sort of put my career on hold
9:53
Speaker 1: for a year for this and quite a few other
9:56
Speaker 1: things that I've done. Yeah, yeah, in interesting one.
10:04
Speaker 2: But like you know, life is full of many, many challenges,
10:07
Speaker 2: and they come in different shapes and sizes, don't they.
10:10
Speaker 2: Even these days, even getting a bank to engage with you,
10:14
Speaker 2: you know, making a phone call to a back or
10:17
Speaker 2: paying some cash in you know what a nightmare that
10:20
Speaker 2: is now. So yeah, life has many many challenges. I've
10:24
Speaker 2: been going through a few of late. The last four
10:26
Speaker 2: years have been filled with another kind of challenge.
10:32
Speaker 1: So tell us about it, mate, How did it come about?
10:36
Speaker 2: So I've been in prison in the last four years.
10:42
Speaker 2: I got accused by my at the time fiance of
10:47
Speaker 2: pushing her down some stairs, only after she changed her story.
10:54
Speaker 2: She initially said that she fell down the stairs, but
10:57
Speaker 2: then she changed her story to I pushed her, And
11:02
Speaker 2: all of a sudden I'm in the system and having
11:07
Speaker 2: a court case or at least a conviction cultivated by
11:13
Speaker 2: the authorities, and as a result, I got convicted of
11:18
Speaker 2: Section twenty GBH, which is, for those who don't know,
11:23
Speaker 2: there's two levels. There's section eighteen, which is causing injury
11:28
Speaker 2: with intent, and there's section twenty, which is causing injury
11:33
Speaker 2: without intent. So looking at that, I suppose in a
11:38
Speaker 2: different way, if you cause injury to someone without any intention,
11:41
Speaker 2: then surely that's an accident. Anyway, you know, the whole
11:45
Speaker 2: thing is bonkers. So I ended up in prison. I
11:49
Speaker 2: went to prison from August twenty twenty two through to
11:56
Speaker 2: March of twenty three. Then I was on TAG for
11:59
Speaker 2: two months, which is where you wear a little GPS
12:03
Speaker 2: monitor thing on your ankle and you have to be
12:05
Speaker 2: at a specific location between the hours of seven pm
12:08
Speaker 2: and seven am every day. But then you can go
12:11
Speaker 2: out and about, but you're still on what's called license
12:16
Speaker 2: until the end of your sentence. And my sentence was
12:18
Speaker 2: eighteen months, and only after that license period is up
12:26
Speaker 2: are you sort of free to roam fully once again.
12:29
Speaker 2: Albeit you know there are now restrictions on me. I
12:32
Speaker 2: can't travel to certain countries if I wanted to. I
12:35
Speaker 2: think America would say no, thank you very much, and
12:38
Speaker 2: the likes of Australia. It's difficult getting, you know, insurance
12:44
Speaker 2: that doesn't come well without paying ridiculous amounts. I think
12:49
Speaker 2: if I had to renew my mortgage, I would probably
12:52
Speaker 2: be looked into and money would be more expensive because
12:55
Speaker 2: the underwriters of the money see you as a risk.
12:58
Speaker 2: You know, there's so many different ramifications. Trying to find
13:02
Speaker 2: another relationship is very difficult. You know, Hi, I'm Gary.
13:06
Speaker 2: I'm a great catch, keep yourself quite fit, done some
13:09
Speaker 2: great things in my life. Pretty buoyant, pretty bubbly. Oh
13:12
Speaker 2: by the way, I do have a conviction of violence
13:15
Speaker 2: against women, and that doesn't really help very much. So
13:19
Speaker 2: you know this, I've served their time. But actually I
13:25
Speaker 2: live with this every day and I'm fighting my corner
13:28
Speaker 2: to try and get my name clear because I feel
13:32
Speaker 2: I've got so much evidence to show how I've been
13:37
Speaker 2: wronged and how this whole situation was cultivated.
13:42
Speaker 1: While you were talking, I was just flashing up the
13:46
Speaker 1: number of films you've started in. It's just it's quite
13:51
Speaker 1: it's quite phenomenal, Gary, and almost in a way it
13:59
Speaker 1: kind of likes how much this must have affected you,
14:03
Speaker 1: because you know, you as a guy involved in a
14:06
Speaker 1: lot of well, fairly high profile sort of stuff. I mean,
14:14
Speaker 1: I don't want to kind of sidetrack too much, but
14:17
Speaker 1: has it affected your stunt work?
14:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And thanks for asking that question. I you know,
14:24
Speaker 2: as a result of being the Queen's stunt double, it's
14:29
Speaker 2: a double edged sword, Chris. You know, it's amazing to
14:33
Speaker 2: have done that and it's brilliant and the press love
14:35
Speaker 2: you for it and massive exposure. But at the same time,
14:41
Speaker 2: because I was the Queen's stunt double, when you then
14:44
Speaker 2: get accused and convicted of something, you then get reported
14:48
Speaker 2: in the national press because you were the Queen stunt double.
14:52
Speaker 2: And you know, national press these days doesn't only stay nationally,
14:57
Speaker 2: it goes worldwide because obviously the Internet it does what
15:00
Speaker 2: it does. And yeah, it's absolutely destroyed my career. It
15:06
Speaker 2: took me three decades to build a fantastic reputation. I
15:10
Speaker 2: was at the top of the BBC go to list
15:13
Speaker 2: for the London area for approved stunt coordinators. I haven't
15:17
Speaker 2: had a call now and it's Chris is devastating, mate.
15:22
Speaker 2: It's sorry, I'm getting a bit choked. Yeah, it's not
15:29
Speaker 2: a pleasant space to be and you know, I've not
15:33
Speaker 2: had a phone call for well, I didn't people didn't
15:38
Speaker 2: know I was in prison at the time. Not everybody
15:40
Speaker 2: that I have worked within the past, because I have
15:43
Speaker 2: reached out to some people and some people didn't know,
15:45
Speaker 2: some people did. But even those that didn't know, you know,
15:51
Speaker 2: they're very sympathetic. But I still haven't had phone calls
15:54
Speaker 2: from them. So yeah, super tough, but you know, we
15:59
Speaker 2: are resilient.
16:00
Speaker 1: We crack on.
16:01
Speaker 2: I'm trying to reinvent myself doing some other stuff which
16:04
Speaker 2: maybe we'll come on to later, but yeah, it's not
16:08
Speaker 2: the easiest position to be in.
16:10
Speaker 1: Before we come and talk about the ins and outs
16:12
Speaker 1: of what happened. Then, So what about an appeal? Gary,
16:16
Speaker 1: how because a sense there was a lot of well
16:19
Speaker 1: I've read the notes that you sent me. There was
16:21
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, genuine injustice there. If it's
16:27
Speaker 1: all you know to go by. The police clearly weren't
16:31
Speaker 1: doing their job and the judge was looking to you know,
16:34
Speaker 1: knock off early, so to speak. What do you have
16:38
Speaker 1: an appeal avenue available to you?
16:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a couple of things there. The appeal I've
16:43
Speaker 2: already been to the appeal court and I'll come onto that,
16:47
Speaker 2: and obviously I can't open up and give you and
16:51
Speaker 2: your listeners something to go away with with full knowledge
16:56
Speaker 2: because there's just so much information and it's all so common.
17:00
Speaker 2: You know. You have so many different statements and transcripts
17:05
Speaker 2: from different people at different times, and it's all interweaved
17:08
Speaker 2: because it's all about a moment in time, but that
17:14
Speaker 2: transcript or statement may not have come until two years
17:19
Speaker 2: after the supposed event, so it's a very convoluted mishmash thing.
17:25
Speaker 2: But I've spent the last three months or so, I suppose,
17:29
Speaker 2: breaking down pretty much everything I have from a legal perspective,
17:34
Speaker 2: not my thoughts, because obviously my thoughts are just my
17:36
Speaker 2: thoughts and there's no proof in those. But I've been
17:39
Speaker 2: breaking down statements, transcripts, etc. And all the evidence, and
17:44
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous what I've found. I mean, in the moment,
17:48
Speaker 2: I knew what was truth and what was not. But
17:50
Speaker 2: when you do a proper breakdown, you realize that the
17:55
Speaker 2: jury don't have access to everything I had access to.
18:00
Speaker 2: They hear a story once, and it's over a period
18:04
Speaker 2: of two to three days, so they might hear something
18:07
Speaker 2: within the first hour on the first day and then
18:09
Speaker 2: it's not referred to again for another two and a
18:13
Speaker 2: half days, and they're supposed to remember the detail from
18:17
Speaker 2: previously when they've been home out of pizza, sat and
18:21
Speaker 2: watch some TV whatever they do, you know, and then
18:23
Speaker 2: come back the next day wishing they were somewhere else,
18:25
Speaker 2: because be honest, let's who wants to do jury duty.
18:28
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the judge. So when we'd had
18:36
Speaker 2: the court case, the judge sums up before the jury
18:39
Speaker 2: go off to deliberate, and he wasn't allowed to say
18:45
Speaker 2: this guy is innocent, but he basically summed up saying
18:49
Speaker 2: this guy is innocent. When they came back with a
18:52
Speaker 2: guilty verdict, he was kind of beside himself and he
18:58
Speaker 2: took one look at my barrister and he said, I
19:01
Speaker 2: think you need to be putting together a report of
19:04
Speaker 2: how you feel these people came to their findings, if
19:08
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And she said, yes, your honor.
19:12
Speaker 2: He said, you do know what I mean, don't you? Yes,
19:15
Speaker 2: your honor. So afterwards, when we were outside, I said
19:20
Speaker 2: to Sarah and my embarrass I said, what was that
19:22
Speaker 2: all about? And she said, he's basically saying, make sure
19:25
Speaker 2: you appeal, then jump jump another month on when sentencing happens,
19:34
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, this judge is another animal because
19:38
Speaker 2: it's now part of the flounce, part of the performance.
19:41
Speaker 2: I'm now in the dark being sentenced. There's a row
19:46
Speaker 2: of national press reporters all there with their little pads
19:49
Speaker 2: and scribbles, you know, and he became someone completely different.
19:54
Speaker 2: I know you are guilty of this crime, you have
19:57
Speaker 2: shown no remorse, blah blah blah blah blah, and you
20:00
Speaker 2: just think, Wow, you're the guy that told my barrister
20:04
Speaker 2: to make sure we appeal because you were shocked by
20:09
Speaker 2: the fact that you summed up basically saying this guy's innocent.
20:12
Speaker 2: And now you're doing this for performance sake. Chris is bonkers.
20:17
Speaker 2: And that's just one tiny small part of it. I
20:20
Speaker 2: mean I could go on and on and on for hours.
20:22
Speaker 2: Part of my breakdown I did. I put together what
20:28
Speaker 2: I call a fact timeline document so it would be fact.
20:34
Speaker 2: We had people over for the evening. Fact there was
20:37
Speaker 2: an altercation on the stairs. Fact Tanya went down. Tanya
20:42
Speaker 2: went for me. She went down and says, you know,
20:44
Speaker 2: I did this whole sort of fact timeline right the
20:46
Speaker 2: way through to the court case to the appeal Court
20:50
Speaker 2: basically to today. And then I started populating that with
20:58
Speaker 2: all the information that I had, and it came out
21:00
Speaker 2: as sixty seven thousand words, and I thought, no one's
21:04
Speaker 2: going to read all of this. I'm doing it for
21:07
Speaker 2: my own mental health and well being, and I'm feeling
21:11
Speaker 2: great doing it, but no one's going to read it.
21:14
Speaker 2: So then I squashed it down, tried pulling out the
21:17
Speaker 2: bones of it, and got it to something around eighty
21:20
Speaker 2: seven hundred words, and then I still thought, you know what,
21:24
Speaker 2: this is still too big, and that's when I narrowed
21:26
Speaker 2: it down to what you've got in front of you now,
21:29
Speaker 2: which is about eight hundred and fifty words, which is
21:31
Speaker 2: absolutely the bullet points of that timeline and everything on
21:39
Speaker 2: there I have absolute proof for, and I also have
21:44
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of circumstantial proof. But just in the
21:48
Speaker 2: actual evidence, the statements, and then the evidence given at
21:52
Speaker 2: court the transcripts there, I can highlight a minimum of
21:56
Speaker 2: thirty three discrepancies or lies that actually proved themselves because
22:00
Speaker 2: they're there. Then a whole bunch of other circumstantial evidence
22:04
Speaker 2: whereby she might have said something in an interview, but
22:08
Speaker 2: I can't actually prove that what she said in the
22:11
Speaker 2: interview is wrong. But I've got a whole bunch of
22:13
Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence that supports actually that's a lie as well.
22:18
Speaker 2: It just goes on and on, Chris. But having done this,
22:22
Speaker 2: it's certainly freed up an area of my headspace. I've
22:28
Speaker 2: also been transcribing. I did a shed load of writing
22:32
Speaker 2: whilst I was in prison. I'm currently on page chain on.
22:35
Speaker 2: I'll put my glasses on for this, sorry, currently on
22:38
Speaker 2: page three hundred and five of four hundred and five
22:42
Speaker 2: of these pages written in prison, there's about two hundred
22:47
Speaker 2: thousand words in there. So you know that was that
22:52
Speaker 2: was something great to do in prison. I feel like
22:54
Speaker 2: I made the most of my time. You certainly learn
22:59
Speaker 2: a lot about yourself and a lot about other people.
23:05
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, what can I say? What can
23:07
Speaker 2: I tell you?
23:08
Speaker 1: Gary? Sorry to be like a voyeur. Yeah, but I'm
23:12
Speaker 1: thinking of our friends out there. That would be fast
23:16
Speaker 1: And obviously we're going to come on to the injustice,
23:18
Speaker 1: But what is it a what's it like in prison?
23:23
Speaker 1: What's the routine like? What are the people like, what
23:26
Speaker 1: are the screws like? And then we'll come on to
23:31
Speaker 1: what's it like as an innocent person.
23:36
Speaker 2: Right, So other people have said to me, you know,
23:39
Speaker 2: what's it like in prison? And my answer, I suppose
23:46
Speaker 2: the answer I give is look, when I was in prison,
23:49
Speaker 2: I wrote nearly two hundred thousand words. So to give
23:52
Speaker 2: you an answer in a few sentences of what's it
23:56
Speaker 2: like in prison is absolutely futile. It's ever thing, It's
24:02
Speaker 2: any emotion you can imagine. Take that to the extreme
24:06
Speaker 2: ends of each and you will find that it's peace,
24:10
Speaker 2: it's tranquility, it's extreme trauma, it's frustration to the nth degree.
24:20
Speaker 2: It's laughter, love, hatred, joy, pain, prison officers, some great,
24:30
Speaker 2: some terrible food, absolutely awful. Different experiences in different prisons.
24:40
Speaker 2: I went from Bullingden, which is in Bister, direct from
24:45
Speaker 2: Oxford Crown Court when I got sentenced. I spent eight
24:50
Speaker 2: weeks there. I think they found out, oh, actually Gary's
24:53
Speaker 2: an alright chap, so they sent me off to a
24:57
Speaker 2: lower category prison down in earl Stoke, which is near Devises.
25:04
Speaker 2: That was relative to Bullingden and relative to a prison
25:11
Speaker 2: I hadn't yet gone to. That's after Earl's Stoke. It
25:15
Speaker 2: was a holiday camp. Albeit you can't get out of
25:19
Speaker 2: the holiday camp. So I suppose a bit like going
25:21
Speaker 2: to some of these places in far flung countries where
25:26
Speaker 2: maybe you shouldn't really go because of unrest, but you
25:28
Speaker 2: stay within the perimeter of the holiday camp. So it
25:34
Speaker 2: was a bit like that from then going to the
25:38
Speaker 2: appeal court because what I had was a record of
25:41
Speaker 2: what I have is a recording of Tanya crying her
25:45
Speaker 2: eyes out. What have I done? Oh my god, if
25:50
Speaker 2: I've made all this up, I'm a terrible person. I'm
25:53
Speaker 2: such a bitch. Blah blah blah, what is wrong with me?
25:57
Speaker 2: Twenty minutes of crying her eyes out because because she
26:00
Speaker 2: came to my place whilst I was on bail, so
26:04
Speaker 2: that was, you know, breaking of bail restrictions. She came
26:09
Speaker 2: to my place, she broke down. I told the police
26:13
Speaker 2: months and months before how this would play out, because
26:16
Speaker 2: unfortunately Tanya does suffer with some diagnosed mental illnesses, and
26:21
Speaker 2: having spent seven and a half years with her trying
26:24
Speaker 2: to care for her. Fine solutions as blokes, do you know?
26:27
Speaker 2: I think generally a good bloke will look for solutions
26:30
Speaker 2: and try to give as much as possible to their
26:32
Speaker 2: partner as they can and support. Having done all of
26:37
Speaker 2: that I knew how this would play out, and as
26:39
Speaker 2: soon as she started to feel guilty, as I told
26:41
Speaker 2: the police, she would, at some point she'll open up,
26:45
Speaker 2: but we never know when that's going to be. And
26:47
Speaker 2: that night she opened up. We'd spent the afternoon in bed,
26:50
Speaker 2: had a great time, and then she broke down in tears,
26:54
Speaker 2: and I said to her, you know what, stay there,
26:57
Speaker 2: I'll go and get you my go and get you
26:59
Speaker 2: a drink. Record on my phone because I thought this
27:02
Speaker 2: is gold dust and there it was twenty minutes and
27:08
Speaker 2: she then left. That recording got me to the appeal court.
27:13
Speaker 2: After the appeal courtse I'm coming onto prisons, aren't I
27:16
Speaker 2: After the appeal court. So I've gone off on a
27:18
Speaker 2: slight tangent the appeal court. I went to Pentonville. Oh
27:23
Speaker 2: my god. First few nights I spent sharing my cell
27:28
Speaker 2: with some cockroaches. So anyway, I'll come back to Pentonville
27:34
Speaker 2: going on to Yeah, this recording that got me to
27:37
Speaker 2: the appeal court. And at the appeal court, Tanya admitted
27:41
Speaker 2: that she'd been lying to the police because she couldn't
27:44
Speaker 2: really deny it. At this point, the police had put
27:47
Speaker 2: out a statement saying we now know she's been lying
27:50
Speaker 2: throughout the investigation. Her actions cast serious doubt as to
27:54
Speaker 2: whether she can be seen as a credible witness, and
27:56
Speaker 2: her actions throughout have been very questionable, all a bit
28:00
Speaker 2: too late. Yet with all of that at the appeal Court,
28:03
Speaker 2: the recording her saying yes, I've been lying, and the
28:08
Speaker 2: police statement, I still have a conviction. But you know,
28:13
Speaker 2: when you look at the postmaster's situation, you've still got
28:18
Speaker 2: postmasters who are convicted, and yet the government and the
28:21
Speaker 2: post Office know that the postmaster debacle was all about
28:28
Speaker 2: an accounting software glitch, and yet you've still got people
28:32
Speaker 2: with these I'm so sorry. Did that pick up on
28:38
Speaker 2: your end?
28:39
Speaker 1: No, I heard you. You're talking about the post master.
28:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, there was a little my phone's on silent,
28:46
Speaker 2: but it rang and that connected to my computer and
28:48
Speaker 2: it made them my noise my end. I do apologize.
28:51
Speaker 1: That's fine.
28:53
Speaker 2: So so yeah, the postmasters, they still have convictions. And
28:59
Speaker 2: so you know, little old me, what chance do I
29:01
Speaker 2: stand of getting my conviction overturned when you've got this
29:05
Speaker 2: massive national company and the government not just striking a
29:11
Speaker 2: line through all of the postmasters who are still convicted,
29:15
Speaker 2: and you can't, unfortunately, bring those poor postmasters back and
29:18
Speaker 2: put together families, those families that have split up, those
29:22
Speaker 2: people that have committed suicide as a result, those people
29:25
Speaker 2: that were spat at in the street by villagers that
29:28
Speaker 2: you know, were under the impression that these postmasters were stealing.
29:32
Speaker 2: It's where do you go? What can you say? We
29:36
Speaker 2: are governed by a corrupt state.
29:41
Speaker 1: I'm going to come on and ask you is there
29:44
Speaker 1: an appeal process still left for you? But I think
29:48
Speaker 1: a lot of people Gary who haven't been in prison,
29:51
Speaker 1: thereby the grace of God, go, I believe me. You know,
29:59
Speaker 1: what's it like then on your first night when they
30:02
Speaker 1: proverbally slam the door? It does it? Does it relate
30:08
Speaker 1: at all to maybe when we join the military? Is
30:11
Speaker 1: it like nothing like that? Is? Is it lonely? Is
30:15
Speaker 1: it horrible? Or is it right? Here we go, Let's
30:18
Speaker 1: let's keep our nose clean and let's you know, let's
30:21
Speaker 1: smash this out.
30:23
Speaker 2: So it's yes, it's let's keep your nose clean, let's
30:28
Speaker 2: not make eye contact with anybody. Let's just find our
30:31
Speaker 2: way very gently. In terms of military, No, nothing like it,
30:34
Speaker 2: because that's a choice we weren't forced to do. That
30:43
Speaker 2: I So any prison that you go to you start
30:47
Speaker 2: off on an induction wing, so it's quite a soft introduction.
30:53
Speaker 2: And you know, I was fifty three years old at
30:57
Speaker 2: the time, never been in trouble, and all of a sudden,
31:00
Speaker 2: I find myself in this space and I think straight away,
31:03
Speaker 2: you know, when you go in, there is already an
31:06
Speaker 2: assessment being done with you by anyone that you engage with,
31:10
Speaker 2: any prison officer, any other inmate. And on the induction wing,
31:14
Speaker 2: what you've got are other inmates whose job it is
31:21
Speaker 2: to help new inmates find their feet in settle. So
31:27
Speaker 2: they are prisoners themselves, but they're prisoners that have seen
31:32
Speaker 2: by the prison service or actually, in my writing I
31:36
Speaker 2: call it the prison zero Service. There is they are
31:43
Speaker 2: placed in the induction wing to help. So there's this
31:46
Speaker 2: sort of softly softly And I had a great guy,
31:50
Speaker 2: lovely fella African descent, I think, and or you know,
31:59
Speaker 2: Afro Caribbean, I'm not sure, but a really cool black
32:04
Speaker 2: dude called Dan, and he really helped me out. You know,
32:08
Speaker 2: he was young, he was fit. I actually saw him
32:12
Speaker 2: stop a guy hanging himself. He grabbed hold of the
32:15
Speaker 2: guy that was just about to hang himself over a balcony,
32:17
Speaker 2: and he's such a big guy. He was just able
32:20
Speaker 2: to grab hold of him with one hand and pull
32:21
Speaker 2: him back up. It was phenomenal to watch. So yeah,
32:25
Speaker 2: Dan really helped me out, So thank you Dan.
32:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's not nice that that first time when
32:37
Speaker 2: your door closes.
32:39
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's doubly horrorble for you because you're
32:45
Speaker 1: innocent or you know. I suppose I should say, to
32:48
Speaker 1: be an impartial host, you're claiming to be innocent, but
32:51
Speaker 1: I take your word for it. Gary, you know, yeah,
32:56
Speaker 1: it must be doubly horrible.
32:59
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, look, I suppose a lot of
33:02
Speaker 2: that emotion had been dealt with before going to prison,
33:06
Speaker 2: because I suppose I knew I was going to prison
33:09
Speaker 2: after I got found guilty. I mean, I don't think
33:12
Speaker 2: anyone that gets found guilty of GBH stays out of prison,
33:18
Speaker 2: whether it's an accident or not, or whether you even
33:21
Speaker 2: did it or not. You know, it's just that's the point.
33:24
Speaker 2: I got found guilty of something I didn't do, and
33:29
Speaker 2: if you look at it, like I say, on a
33:31
Speaker 2: practical level, it's an accident even if I did do it.
33:35
Speaker 1: It's just what how did they relate you in prison?
33:40
Speaker 1: Did they know who you were?
33:44
Speaker 2: One of the prison officers came up to me on
33:46
Speaker 2: the quiet one time whilst I was in bullingdon So
33:50
Speaker 2: the first eight weeks, and he asked me. He said
33:53
Speaker 2: to me, are you the guy that jumped into the Olympics?
33:57
Speaker 2: And I did say to him, I said yeah, but
34:00
Speaker 2: I said do me a favor and to keep it quiet.
34:02
Speaker 2: But it didn't stay quiet. But ultimately, because I was old,
34:06
Speaker 2: and because I'm i suppose relatively educated or at least
34:13
Speaker 2: can hold my own and have had lots of life experience,
34:17
Speaker 2: I kind of became a go to figure from a
34:20
Speaker 2: lot of the other inmates. There was a lot of
34:24
Speaker 2: positivity around me.
34:26
Speaker 1: Gone, well, they've probably thought, being you know, the queen's double,
34:31
Speaker 1: you could give some pardons out.
34:36
Speaker 2: Well, I actually was queen for a short period of time,
34:39
Speaker 2: wasn't I? You know, for the illusion. It's actually amazing
34:44
Speaker 2: how many people supposedly believed that that really was the queen,
34:49
Speaker 2: you know, when in the past I've spoken with people
34:52
Speaker 2: and said, oh yeah about having jumped out as the queen.
34:55
Speaker 2: Oh well, that wasn't the queen, you know, or the
35:00
Speaker 2: they believe that maybe Daniel Craig had done it as
35:02
Speaker 2: well as opposed to there being a double or someone
35:06
Speaker 2: else playing the part of Bond. So yeah, it's fascinating,
35:10
Speaker 2: isn't it.
35:11
Speaker 1: What other stuff did you do inside to occupy your
35:14
Speaker 1: time when you weren't writing?
35:16
Speaker 2: So yeah, writing reading, which is something I'd not done
35:20
Speaker 2: a lot of in the past. I'm certainly not someone
35:24
Speaker 2: that if I've got time on my hands and I think, oh,
35:26
Speaker 2: what shall I do? Shall I go for a run,
35:28
Speaker 2: Shall I climb a tree? Shall I climb a building
35:30
Speaker 2: and jump off it? Shall I go and over a
35:32
Speaker 2: round the golf, go for a ride on my bike,
35:35
Speaker 2: or shall I sit down and read? I'm certainly not
35:38
Speaker 2: someone that picks up the book. So but that was enlightening. Yeah.
35:44
Speaker 2: I probably read more in prison than the sum total
35:48
Speaker 2: of everything I'd read in the rest of my entire life,
35:53
Speaker 2: and I actually did enjoy it. But since coming out,
35:56
Speaker 2: I haven't picked up a book again, so that tells
35:59
Speaker 2: you something I did. Yeah, writing, reading, lots of walking
36:06
Speaker 2: up and down. So I worked out that if I did,
36:08
Speaker 2: I think it was ten five hundred and twenty lengths
36:12
Speaker 2: of my sell in Pensonville I'd just done a marathon.
36:18
Speaker 2: So there was an occasion when I pissed off my
36:21
Speaker 2: cell mate, a lovely Romanian truck driver called Julian. I
36:27
Speaker 2: pissed him off one day by doing a marathon. There's
36:32
Speaker 2: a TV in your room, not that the channels are
36:36
Speaker 2: particularly good and the receptions not particularly good. Lots of exercise,
36:43
Speaker 2: lots of in cell training. You know. Pushups is the
36:46
Speaker 2: stereotypical if you watch a prison show, you know, or
36:50
Speaker 2: some sort of drama, the stereotypical chin ups and press
36:54
Speaker 2: ups and sit ups and all of that. I had
36:58
Speaker 2: water bottles or other drinks bottles filled with water in
37:04
Speaker 2: a mesh bag, and I was using that as weights,
37:07
Speaker 2: you know, So I actually, you know, I tried to
37:09
Speaker 2: maintain my level of fitness. Cardio was difficult because we
37:14
Speaker 2: didn't get outside very often, but when we did, I
37:17
Speaker 2: would run and I was often told that I couldn't
37:21
Speaker 2: run barefoot. But I challenged that because clearly I was
37:25
Speaker 2: running barefoot, and that's why they said, you can't run barefoot,
37:29
Speaker 2: But I am running barefoot. Look I can. But they
37:32
Speaker 2: didn't like the idea of me running barefoot. I don't
37:35
Speaker 2: know why, but it was far better than trying to
37:38
Speaker 2: run in the military. Sorry, prison issue footwear. Yeah, lots
37:45
Speaker 2: of experiences, Chris. I mean, look, I guess it's if
37:49
Speaker 2: you've run away.
37:51
Speaker 1: They wouldn't be able to like see which way you
37:53
Speaker 1: went by looking at the you know, the was it
37:56
Speaker 1: the marks on the bottomy issues?
38:00
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Other people have mentioned the whole
38:05
Speaker 2: prison experience, and I've never had an illness that's been
38:12
Speaker 2: so bad that it might have killed me, and I've
38:14
Speaker 2: got over it, and then therefore I treat every day
38:17
Speaker 2: like an absolutely new, wonderful day. I've never had that,
38:20
Speaker 2: but I've listened to people talk of that experience. Now,
38:25
Speaker 2: if the judge had said to me on sentencing day, hey, Gary,
38:29
Speaker 2: tell you what you can crack on and keep doing
38:31
Speaker 2: what you've been doing. Stay out of prison, or I
38:35
Speaker 2: can send you to prison and you know, go and
38:37
Speaker 2: do our time or the state's time, I would have said,
38:43
Speaker 2: thanks very much, I'll stay out. I didn't have that choice,
38:47
Speaker 2: but I can honestly say, not having the choice, that
38:53
Speaker 2: I'm kind of glad it's happened, because I realized that
38:59
Speaker 2: I've got so much on roads. And on roads is
39:03
Speaker 2: the term that people inmates use for being outside, being
39:08
Speaker 2: on the road, on the roads. So you know, it
39:13
Speaker 2: was very it was an awakening experience. It was, oh
39:17
Speaker 2: my god, my life has been incredible and this isn't
39:21
Speaker 2: my choice to be here, and I have some wonderful
39:24
Speaker 2: things to look forward to when I get out, and
39:26
Speaker 2: my life will continue. I don't going back to the
39:29
Speaker 2: whole stunt work thing. I don't necessarily miss the activity
39:34
Speaker 2: of being a stunt coordinator, but I do miss the money.
39:38
Speaker 2: But what I've got now is a very different take
39:41
Speaker 2: on life, and I realize that it's not about surrounding
39:45
Speaker 2: myself with trinkets or buying little pieces of art or
39:48
Speaker 2: you know, the latest pair of trainers kind of thing.
39:51
Speaker 2: I have a very different take on life and a
39:55
Speaker 2: very different level of freedom, which is wonderful. And that's
39:58
Speaker 2: as a result going to prison.
40:00
Speaker 1: So now you just go and steal them, Well, sorry,
40:05
Speaker 1: I've got the wrong end of the stick.
40:07
Speaker 2: Then there, know what, do you know what you touch
40:10
Speaker 2: on that? And yet this is part of what we
40:13
Speaker 2: sort of touched on a little bit earlier on about
40:16
Speaker 2: not having a job and not being able to earn
40:17
Speaker 2: any money. The state definitely does set you up to fail.
40:22
Speaker 3: Now.
40:22
Speaker 2: I know that the state isn't responsible for companies employing people,
40:30
Speaker 2: but trying to apply to work. If you say that
40:35
Speaker 2: you've got a conviction, you're not getting a job, and
40:39
Speaker 2: that is a real setup to fail. I have done
40:42
Speaker 2: their time. I don't call it my time because it wasn't.
40:45
Speaker 2: I mean, I spent my time, but I was doing
40:48
Speaker 2: the time that they required me to do. So it's
40:51
Speaker 2: their time. I've done their time. But the world doesn't
40:57
Speaker 2: recognize that. It sets you up to fail. So what
41:00
Speaker 2: am I supposed to do now? For an income? What
41:02
Speaker 2: do I do to pay my mortgage? What do I
41:05
Speaker 2: do to sort out myself or you know, put a
41:08
Speaker 2: new tire on my car if I need to. It's
41:11
Speaker 2: not about doing their time and then all of a sudden,
41:14
Speaker 2: Oh that's it. It's over, not at all. And that's
41:17
Speaker 2: a huge thing that people coming out of prison must
41:23
Speaker 2: experience time and time and time again. Your non existent.
41:27
Speaker 2: When you're behind the wall. You can't see out, people
41:30
Speaker 2: can't see in to the outside world. You're a nothing
41:34
Speaker 2: other than those people very close to you. And when
41:36
Speaker 2: you come out, they don't allow you to be something.
41:40
Speaker 2: It's quite a challenge Chris, and I would love to
41:43
Speaker 2: find some lawyer that watches your show or listens to
41:48
Speaker 2: your show who would love to take on my case
41:53
Speaker 2: because I feel I've got so much evidence to prove
41:56
Speaker 2: the wrongdoing, the lack of commitment by the police, the
41:59
Speaker 2: lack of full and thorough investigation that they did not
42:02
Speaker 2: do it, the cultivating of a case. I'd love to
42:07
Speaker 2: find someone pro bono that can go do you know what, Yeah,
42:10
Speaker 2: let's poke the bear here, Let's see what we can
42:13
Speaker 2: dig out. The police deleted messages from my phone, so
42:17
Speaker 2: they took my phone when I got arrested. They held
42:20
Speaker 2: it for nearly three months. When I got it back,
42:24
Speaker 2: I noticed messages between Tanya, the girl that I'm supposed
42:27
Speaker 2: to have pushed down the stairs, my fiance at the time,
42:30
Speaker 2: and Tanya's dad. There were messages on the phone the
42:35
Speaker 2: hours after and the day after this incident supposed to
42:39
Speaker 2: have happened. When I got my phone back, these messages
42:42
Speaker 2: has been deleted and they then put in an official statement.
42:47
Speaker 2: Connery says all of these messages will be retrievable to
42:51
Speaker 2: view on his phone. Well, firstly, why would you delete
42:55
Speaker 2: the messages unless you feel that there's some content in
42:59
Speaker 2: there to to help my case. And secondly, why would
43:04
Speaker 2: you pick on saying something so sort of innocuous. Yeah,
43:08
Speaker 2: there's messages on my phone. You can have a look
43:10
Speaker 2: if you want. Why would they put that in an
43:12
Speaker 2: official statement if they hadn't done something to try and
43:16
Speaker 2: highlight that I was bullshitting? It doesn't make any sense.
43:22
Speaker 2: I don't know if what I've just said makes sense,
43:24
Speaker 2: But that's corrupt.
43:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get the gist of it. It certainly would
43:30
Speaker 1: be good if somebody was to get in contact with
43:32
Speaker 1: you to discuss the possibilities here.
43:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:40
Speaker 1: Just sorry to stick on the prison thing. But what's
43:43
Speaker 1: it like the day that you you get set free?
43:52
Speaker 2: It was all very surreal, to be honest with you.
43:56
Speaker 2: I walked out of Pentonville with another guy. You got
44:00
Speaker 2: released the same day, And honestly, you just get shown
44:04
Speaker 2: a door and you walk out and you're now outside
44:07
Speaker 2: and they've given you whatever possessions you had when you
44:10
Speaker 2: went in, they've given back to you and whatever you've
44:14
Speaker 2: ended up with coming out of prison. For me, it
44:17
Speaker 2: was quite a heavy bunch of paper that I've been
44:19
Speaker 2: writing on and a few quid on top to get
44:25
Speaker 2: you on your way sort of thing. I think they
44:27
Speaker 2: give you something like eighty quid so that you can
44:30
Speaker 2: get a train somewhere or a taxi or whatever. And
44:34
Speaker 2: it was quite a cold day. I didn't have much
44:37
Speaker 2: in the way of clothing, simply because I didn't know
44:45
Speaker 2: that when you go to sentencing that you just get
44:49
Speaker 2: taken straight off. You know, it's the take him down
44:53
Speaker 2: and you go down and all of a sudden, that's it,
44:54
Speaker 2: you're off to prison. I was wearing a suit, tie,
44:58
Speaker 2: a shirt, some shoes, no money, no bank cards, nothing,
45:04
Speaker 2: because I was just there.
45:06
Speaker 1: You know.
45:06
Speaker 2: I had my members of family and friends sort of
45:09
Speaker 2: in the dock, not in the dock, in the viewing area,
45:12
Speaker 2: you know, the listening area. I don't know what it's
45:14
Speaker 2: called public gallery. There you go. I had those people
45:18
Speaker 2: with me, but once you're gone, once you're taken down,
45:21
Speaker 2: you don't have access to them. So I literally had suit, shirt, shoes.
45:27
Speaker 2: So anyway, I come out. It's March, middle of March
45:31
Speaker 2: twenty three. It was cold. Myself and this guy walked out.
45:36
Speaker 2: I didn't even have a phone. I didn't have my
45:37
Speaker 2: phone with me. Nothing that obviously the prisons No Zero
45:43
Speaker 2: Service would have kept until I come out. But I
45:46
Speaker 2: borrowed this guy's phone to make a call to call
45:48
Speaker 2: my mum to let her know I was now out
45:51
Speaker 2: because I had to go direct from prison to my
45:52
Speaker 2: mum's because that's where I was on tag for two months.
45:56
Speaker 2: So yeah, I ended up getting in a cab to
45:59
Speaker 2: take me to Tottenham Hale Tube station and then from
46:02
Speaker 2: Tottenham haee, I was able to take a train out
46:04
Speaker 2: to where my mum lives. And it was all a
46:08
Speaker 2: bit just surreal.
46:09
Speaker 1: It was like.
46:12
Speaker 2: It was just another day in life. I mean, I
46:16
Speaker 2: think I'd do a very good job of living in
46:18
Speaker 2: the moment, and so it was just new moments. It
46:25
Speaker 2: was fresh. I don't know, that's hard to describe. I
46:31
Speaker 2: honestly thought when I came out of prison that I
46:34
Speaker 2: would probably keep writing because I had enjoyed the writing experience.
46:39
Speaker 2: What I realized, I think, is that the writing was
46:41
Speaker 2: just keeping me from going crazy. You know, it was
46:44
Speaker 2: something to kill time, rather than allowing time to kill me.
46:53
Speaker 2: It's hard to describe how it was, Chris.
46:58
Speaker 1: How many of your friends turn their backs on you?
47:02
Speaker 2: That's an interesting question.
47:04
Speaker 1: I say friends. Obviously they wouldn't be friends, would they.
47:06
Speaker 1: But acquaintances.
47:09
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. I've learned that people I thought
47:12
Speaker 2: were friends and even business partners were not friends. And
47:17
Speaker 2: people that I thought were acquaintances have been great friends.
47:24
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's a huge learning curve too. And you know,
47:28
Speaker 2: because financially, I'm not where I used to be right now,
47:34
Speaker 2: I don't go out the way I used to. I
47:37
Speaker 2: go out, I go running, I go and hit some
47:40
Speaker 2: golf balls or whatever, you know, whatever activity it is,
47:44
Speaker 2: but I don't go out out. And so that you
47:48
Speaker 2: then learn that those people that you used to go
47:51
Speaker 2: out with, actually they were only there or you were
47:56
Speaker 2: only there for them to go out with. They weren't
47:58
Speaker 2: there as friends that come and knock on your door
48:01
Speaker 2: and say, hey, Gary, how are you doing. We haven't
48:03
Speaker 2: seen you for a while. You know. That's so that's
48:06
Speaker 2: a big learning curve.
48:10
Speaker 1: Have you considered starting a podcast? It would be I
48:18
Speaker 1: reckon there's an opening in the market for a podcast
48:23
Speaker 1: on injustices, criminal injustices or legal injustices, whatever the right
48:30
Speaker 1: expression is. You can interview people that have been in
48:34
Speaker 1: your situation. You could you could review historic cases. The
48:40
Speaker 1: famous boxer what was his name? The hurricane wasn't it.
48:44
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with his story? No, So there was
48:48
Speaker 1: a boxer. It was called The Hurricane, And don't quote
48:52
Speaker 1: me on this. I'm totally going to like paraphrase it
48:55
Speaker 1: because it was a long time ago. I heard this story,
49:01
Speaker 1: and I heard the story because a friend of mine
49:03
Speaker 1: listened to Bob Dylan, and Bob Dylan sung a song
49:06
Speaker 1: called the Hurricane. If I got that right, I think
49:09
Speaker 1: it was Bob Dylan, and it was about this black
49:13
Speaker 1: professional boxer, or he was an up and coming boxer
49:18
Speaker 1: at least, and he was framed for a crime that
49:20
Speaker 1: he didn't do. And it was so blatantly obvious that
49:25
Speaker 1: this guy hadn't done this crime, but he was fixed
49:28
Speaker 1: up by the I don't know again, don't quote me
49:31
Speaker 1: on this, the police officers, for example. And it was
49:36
Speaker 1: one of those ones where it was so obviously was
49:40
Speaker 1: innocent that celebrities started to get on the case, and
49:43
Speaker 1: one of them being Bob Dylan, but none of them
49:47
Speaker 1: saw it through to the end. And then three lads
49:52
Speaker 1: got together. They were university lads. I don't know if
49:54
Speaker 1: they were I'm guessing they were studying law or they
49:57
Speaker 1: just started in practice, and they literally booked an apartment
50:04
Speaker 1: opposite the prison, so he could look out of the
50:09
Speaker 1: bars of his cell and see them waving at him
50:14
Speaker 1: to say, look, we haven't forgotten you. You know, we'll
50:17
Speaker 1: support you. And eventually he was free. There's a there
50:21
Speaker 1: was a film made about it. I don't know how
50:24
Speaker 1: accurate the film is, but right and a friend of mine,
50:30
Speaker 1: former marine buddy of mine, Mattie, he lures he's absolutely
50:38
Speaker 1: into this case in America where I think it was
50:43
Speaker 1: three youngsters they were found killed basically, and it was
50:52
Speaker 1: all leveled on someone. I don't know the ins and
50:59
Speaker 1: outs of this case. I have seen, you know, on
51:02
Speaker 1: YouTube or something. It's a very famous case and whereas
51:07
Speaker 1: everything in all likely it pointed at someone else. I'm
51:10
Speaker 1: not going to say to someone else because I don't
51:12
Speaker 1: remember who it was. And I just know that there's
51:15
Speaker 1: an actual podcast just about that that case in itself,
51:21
Speaker 1: and my friends just fixated on it, you know, just
51:25
Speaker 1: everything about that case is He's passion passionate about that
51:29
Speaker 1: that these these youngsters get justice. People are going to
51:35
Speaker 1: put in the comments so that we'll know more about it.
51:38
Speaker 1: But I just figure a way to sort of establish
51:43
Speaker 1: your innocence is to start that podcast, because then you're
51:49
Speaker 1: just totally coming right out with it in view of
51:52
Speaker 1: the public, saying this injustice was done to me. I'm
51:56
Speaker 1: gonna let's let's try and stop this in the future.
51:59
Speaker 2: It's yeah, I mean, look great idea. I'd love to
52:05
Speaker 2: be on more podcasts. Do I have the energy or
52:10
Speaker 2: the technical expertise? Energy maybe yes, Technical expertise no, but
52:16
Speaker 2: I know that can be learnt. But I'm still just
52:19
Speaker 2: trying to do stuff to get myself on my feet.
52:21
Speaker 2: I'm not ready. I'm not ready yet, Chris. And that's
52:26
Speaker 2: not just making an excuse. I've got I've still transcribe
52:30
Speaker 2: in my writing from prison, because that could well be
52:33
Speaker 2: a book. I've got another book that I wrote pretty
52:38
Speaker 2: much before any of this all kicked off. I started
52:42
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, and it's called The Day I Became Queen.
52:45
Speaker 2: That is almost ready to go. But then I also
52:49
Speaker 2: have my concerns of well, who wants to buy a
52:51
Speaker 2: book from a bloke who's got a conviction for shoving
52:55
Speaker 2: his missus down some stairs. So my head is still
53:01
Speaker 2: slightly messy. I'm trying to raise a business, a power
53:06
Speaker 2: production business, generating electricity. Do I have the energy and
53:13
Speaker 2: the strength at the moment too, to work out how
53:17
Speaker 2: to do a podcast. Probably not. Do I want to
53:20
Speaker 2: be on more podcasts to tell my story? Absolutely?
53:23
Speaker 1: Yes. Well, on that note, Gary, they go friends out there,
53:29
Speaker 1: many of you will have podcasts. There's a direct invitation
53:34
Speaker 1: from Gary to to reciprocate and invite him. I know
53:39
Speaker 1: a couple of people that are very big in the
53:42
Speaker 1: podcasting game, so I will naturally speak to them. A
53:47
Speaker 1: fan of several people, that'd be.
53:50
Speaker 2: Great if you were Yes, please.
53:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and by.
53:54
Speaker 2: All means throw out my contact details on there, Chris,
53:57
Speaker 2: to get you know, so that people can get in touch.
54:00
Speaker 2: I really appreciate that.
54:01
Speaker 1: Yes, So Gary, what's next? Then? What what's next for you? You?
54:09
Speaker 1: The thing I'm very impressed about is that you're in
54:13
Speaker 1: a good headspace and and it's not hard to see
54:19
Speaker 1: how bloody hard something like like this is for you.
54:23
Speaker 1: I mean, geez, it's for someone from a you know,
54:29
Speaker 1: proud ex forces through through your professional career to achieve
54:34
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of what many people could only aspire to,
54:38
Speaker 1: and then have such an injustice done in an area
54:42
Speaker 1: that's not you know, domestic violence, it's not not it's
54:47
Speaker 1: not pleasant, and lots of people do do. Unfortunately, Judge,
54:52
Speaker 1: it is great that I mean you said to me
54:55
Speaker 1: in our last chat, Chris. It is what it is,
54:57
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to let it affect me. Is
55:00
Speaker 1: you know any more than than it's naturally going to
55:06
Speaker 1: what's in the future?
55:08
Speaker 2: Gary, Yeah, good question. So I am tenacious, i am
55:13
Speaker 2: strong headed, i am pragmatic. I'm not going to let
55:20
Speaker 2: this situation make me ill. So whilst I'm pursuing my innocence,
55:26
Speaker 2: I am. I mentioned trying to get a power production
55:30
Speaker 2: business off the ground, and I am trying to get
55:33
Speaker 2: my foot back in the door in the stunt world.
55:36
Speaker 2: You know, I've gone to see some people that I
55:37
Speaker 2: know and have great respect for. There's a great guy
55:40
Speaker 2: called Roy Taylor who made the documentary film The Man
55:45
Speaker 2: Who Flew to Earth, which is about my wingsuit landing,
55:49
Speaker 2: and he's prolific at the moment in the stunt world
55:53
Speaker 2: with coordinating some big shows. So I went to see
55:57
Speaker 2: him recently. He's going to help me out, which is
55:59
Speaker 2: very sweet. Yeah, what's do you know what? Experiencing life, Chris,
56:04
Speaker 2: That's what's next, being positive, living in the moment, finding
56:10
Speaker 2: love everywhere, sprinkling love dust everywhere I can. You know,
56:15
Speaker 2: love seems to be not carried around in the back
56:18
Speaker 2: pocket by lots of people. But you know what, it's
56:20
Speaker 2: free of charge and it's not in short supply, so
56:24
Speaker 2: that goes everywhere with me. And you know Tanya. I
56:30
Speaker 2: have absolutely nothing against Tanya. She's I wish we were
56:35
Speaker 2: back where we were, you know, four years ago or
56:38
Speaker 2: a bit over four years ago. Now it's the state
56:41
Speaker 2: I have the problem with. So you know, Tanya was
56:46
Speaker 2: just unfortunately transporting an illness that she didn't want to transport,
56:52
Speaker 2: and she would require herself to sleep very often, and
56:57
Speaker 2: I was always there for her. So in terns of
57:00
Speaker 2: you know, moving forward positivity, if she was here now,
57:04
Speaker 2: I'd throw love her way because that's what I've always done.
57:09
Speaker 2: So I know I've gone off on a bit of
57:11
Speaker 2: a tangent there, but what's next. I suppose more of
57:14
Speaker 2: what I've always done. Just be positive. I'm someone that
57:18
Speaker 2: says my glass is never half ford, it's never half empty,
57:21
Speaker 2: it's always overflowing. So get out there and do it, Chris.
57:27
Speaker 2: You know I've mentioned I've gone into schools. I probably
57:30
Speaker 2: won't be asked to do it again. But I've gone
57:31
Speaker 2: into schools in the past and done talks for kids,
57:35
Speaker 2: and I've always said to them, Look, no one expects
57:38
Speaker 2: you to be the best at anything, but be the
57:42
Speaker 2: best you can be at everything that you do. So
57:46
Speaker 2: I sort of live by that and I'll just do
57:49
Speaker 2: the best I can do with what I've got today.
57:53
Speaker 2: So you know, whether whether it's pouring down with rain
57:57
Speaker 2: outside or snowing or blow in a gale, the sun
58:01
Speaker 2: is always shining. So that's I guess that's what's next.
58:06
Speaker 2: Keep living that, keep keep empowering myself with that.
58:10
Speaker 1: Brilliant Gary. Just one question before we say goodbye The
58:15
Speaker 1: Man who Flew to Earth? Is that available anywhere to watch?
58:19
Speaker 2: Yeah? Interesting, and thanks for bringing that up. It was
58:23
Speaker 2: on vimeo. Now hang on, let me just before you
58:27
Speaker 2: go searching. It was on vimeo. But because Roy has
58:31
Speaker 2: recently been speaking with some other big platforms, I think
58:38
Speaker 2: the link for now is non active because I think
58:43
Speaker 2: it has had to be taken down so as that
58:45
Speaker 2: it can be reignited on these new platforms that he's
58:49
Speaker 2: been speaking to. So it may not be available at
58:53
Speaker 2: the moment. I know. You can still watch the trailer
58:55
Speaker 2: on vimeo. The Man who Flew to Earth, but the
58:59
Speaker 2: act your film itself, which is just over an hour long.
59:02
Speaker 2: I'm pretty confident it's a bit difficult to find that
59:05
Speaker 2: at present.
59:07
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I will have a dig around because I'm fine.
59:13
Speaker 1: Let me know, I'm tenacious when it comes to watching
59:15
Speaker 1: something that I think just sounds absolutely brilliant. Gary Great.
59:20
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you've had the chance to come on
59:22
Speaker 1: and tell your side of this, this story. I do
59:26
Speaker 1: hope that someone steps up to the plate and supports
59:30
Speaker 1: you with an appeal, and also that you know you
59:34
Speaker 1: you start getting on some podcasts and get your story
59:38
Speaker 1: out if indeed that's you know, that's what you want
59:41
Speaker 1: to do. And I know we've also discussed that it is,
59:44
Speaker 1: so yeah, absolutely brilliant. We look forward to having you
59:47
Speaker 1: back on. Bought the T shirt and yeah, I'm not
59:52
Speaker 1: going to forget You're going to take me base jumping.
59:54
Speaker 2: So hey, if you're still up for it, mate, I'm
59:57
Speaker 2: definitely up for doing that with you.
59:59
Speaker 1: Brilliant, brilliant, stay on the line, mate, massive, Thank you again,
1:00:03
Speaker 1: friends at home. Funny, isn't it life twist and turns?
1:00:08
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for watching. Please do the like
1:00:10
Speaker 1: and subscribe thing and hit the notification bell go steady.
1:00:15
Speaker 1: Massive love, Thank.
1:00:16
Speaker 3: You, friends, Thank you for listening to the Bought the
1:00:21
Speaker 3: t Shirt Podcast. Please like, subscribe, and share, and don't
1:00:26
Speaker 3: forget to follow me on social media. Use the name
1:00:31
Speaker 3: Chris Throll, Instagram, Chris dot Throll.
1:00:36
Speaker 1: Thank you,