Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / How a Patent-Holding Innovator Pressure-Tests What’s Worth Building (ft. Elina Conley)

Transcript

How a Patent-Holding Innovator Pressure-Tests What’s Worth Building (ft. Elina Conley) · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

0:00
What are AI agents and how do they work?
0:02
It's kind of like having an employee that doesn't sleep and
0:06
doesn't need to eat and can do exactly what you tell it to.
0:11
Do every founder just like? Tell me more.
0:12
Yeah, tell me more. When do you know when to go down
0:15
this path or when to say this is not the right thing for us?
0:18
How does it respond to the customer's problems and how does
0:23
it help you solve them? Now if that part is working but
0:27
keep doing it. How do I grow my company
0:30
consistently year over year without it being a roller
0:33
coaster of ups and downs? It comes down really still to
0:38
validating the customer pain point and delivering a solution.
0:42
What's the other part of the process?
0:43
What am I missing? Today's guest on the show is
0:47
Elena Conley, an expert on all things go to market and
0:50
innovation, founder of Azenity Consulting and someone that
0:54
helps companies go from we have a great idea to this is actually
0:57
working and driving revenue. Elena, welcome to the show.
1:00
How you feeling? Feeling pretty good, thank you
1:03
for being. Here, cheers it up.
1:04
Yeah, well, cheers. Just some liquid day.
1:06
I gave that to you. You're like, what the hell is
1:07
this thing? It's just water.
1:09
It's pretty. So some things we're going to
1:10
discuss today, if you're listening and watching this,
1:12
thank you for being here. By the way, is what's happening
1:15
with innovations like AI agents and open claw right now.
1:19
There's a lot going on and sometimes you can get to either
1:21
distracted or it could be a good Ave. that you want to go down
1:23
that can enhance and grow your business, maybe help you run it
1:26
and grow it without you being in the business. 2 how to scale
1:30
without getting buried in complexity and misery, The go to
1:33
market blueprint every founder needs and how to make better
1:36
decisions even when things feel uncertain.
1:39
So let's start with this. There is a ton of innovation
1:43
going on right now right in the world of, I mean just about
1:46
everything, automation, AI, manufacturing.
1:50
And I think that's the challenge sometimes is regardless of the
1:53
business that you run, you see this new innovation or this new
1:56
tool or this new thing, and you're like, this could
1:58
dramatically help me grow my business, maybe get some time
2:02
back, create efficiencies, have an ROI.
2:04
Or it could be a shiny object that's just going to distract me
2:07
for the next 6 months when I should have focused on the thing
2:10
that is really, really working and doubling or tripling down on
2:12
that. How?
2:14
How do you see that? Like when, When do you know when
2:17
to go down this path or when to say this is not the right thing
2:20
for us? Oh what a love it question.
2:24
Where do we start? Loading the gun up.
2:26
Yeah. So when something so
2:30
specifically, right, let's talk about something, a new
2:33
capability that exists in the world right now, it's AI and
2:38
automation with aid of AI. It's not like automation didn't
2:42
exist before. It was the Internet maybe or the
2:46
fax, MLA or the telephone, right.
2:49
So any kind of transformational innovation, like what do you do?
2:53
And the big question is, OK, what do you do?
2:56
What's your business now? Like what, what is bringing you
3:00
the revenue? What is your product?
3:01
How does it respond to the customer's problems?
3:06
And how does it help you solve that?
3:07
Now if that part is working, then keep doing it, right?
3:12
And then you don't want to break what's working, but you do want
3:16
to improve on that. So the question that you ask is,
3:20
okay, how do you decide to implement a new innovation
3:24
before it was tested? Test it right, set up a small
3:28
experiment and say, okay, what can we do so we don't break the
3:32
business the way it works and we do a little controlled test and
3:37
we measure things right. If you can't measure it, you
3:39
don't know if it works or not. So if you have any performance
3:43
metrics, delivery metrics, responsiveness metrics,
3:47
historically this is how our customers have been responding
3:50
and now we're going to introduce this new thing.
3:53
Is it going to change our business if it's and run a
3:56
little experiment and see, OK, did it work?
3:59
Did it not work? Maybe it worked, but then the
4:02
implementation was clunky. And sometimes the the innovation
4:08
especially I think what a lot of companies are doing right now is
4:11
innovation internally. Maybe the customer won't even
4:15
know that you've implemented a new automation tool, but it
4:18
makes your internal systems more functional or run smoother.
4:23
So again, what are your metrics? How are you going to measure
4:26
that, that you've improved things and don't break it in the
4:30
process so. Yeah, because I think the
4:33
concern is, and I like the the advice about just hey, start
4:36
something that will not break the entire business.
4:39
Use it as a test case. And if it works good in that
4:41
isolated incident, maybe you start bringing it to the other
4:44
aspects of the business. Because part of the problem is
4:46
like, you know, if something's working now that's good in the
4:49
business. But I think the fear is, well,
4:52
in six months or 12 months, if we don't start adapting AI
4:56
agents or AI in our business, all of a sudden, almost like a
4:59
light switch, it's like some new thing or new idea or a new
5:02
process or company comes along and now we're like, oh shit, we
5:06
were just doing what works. We weren't thinking about yes,
5:09
this works now, but how are we innovating for the future too?
5:15
Yes, that's true, right? Like how do you foresee the
5:20
future? Do you have a crystal ball that
5:22
say this is the thing that you need?
5:25
And in reality, it's not going to happen suddenly, right?
5:29
It's not like Oh well, six months from now we're dead,
5:32
right, right. Like that's true.
5:33
You will start experiencing slow, like deterioration.
5:38
You will start experiencing oh, we're can't keep up, right?
5:42
We're generating content. We are, we are, you know, making
5:46
a product, but we can't compete on on quality because our
5:51
quality systems don't include, you know, rely on human
5:54
eyesight, for example. And we need to implement some
5:58
kind of metrology systems that are superior to the, you know,
6:03
to the to the measurement than the human eyesight.
6:06
A good example would be for the optics.
6:09
I spent a lot of time working in the optics industry out of World
6:13
War 2 came back a lot of optical elements that had some damage
6:16
from the war. So how do you decide whether
6:19
they're good enough to go back on the shelf or discard?
6:23
So the military developed the system, the scratch dig military
6:28
standard. So you literally look at a piece
6:31
of optic and if it's scratched up beyond a certain degree, you
6:34
reject it. If it's good, you keep it right.
6:38
So OK, for how long can you use the human eye to do this
6:43
evaluation? Right?
6:44
So it's been done for decades. And at some point, the new
6:48
standards, the new metrologist systems that were able to give
6:52
you not a, not a qualitative evaluation, but a quantitative,
6:58
actually measure what you're seeing and then you can
7:01
implement it. And some of these systems that
7:03
they come around, they're like, well, this is too expensive for
7:06
us now. We cannot implement it.
7:08
We are still going to have humans look at it and eventually
7:12
you have to switch because you need to adapt because your
7:15
customer is also demanding all this quality is not good enough
7:18
for me. So, so in relation to that's
7:20
kind of history, right? But in relation to AI or machine
7:24
learning or automation algorithms, you know, you
7:28
probably are familiar with Google Glass, right Or other
7:32
it's, it's one of the smart glasses options.
7:39
So. That was the meta glasses.
7:42
Yeah, Meta glasses is another one.
7:44
But you know, you wear something that looks around and like a
7:50
Terminator or Iron Man, right? And and gives you information
7:54
about what you're seeing right now.
7:55
So isn't that cool? So then you walk around the
7:59
street and you look at that like a Cyborg, right.
8:02
But where the the maximum implementation and benefit was
8:06
in manufacturing. So an inspection unit, you look
8:11
at the part, it immediately pulls up the drawing and you
8:14
compare it right away. So you don't need to do a click
8:17
at a click on the screen to bring it up and it gives you the
8:20
comparison right away. How close is it to the, you
8:23
know, to the actual dimensions because it can see right away in
8:27
a valley we're. Living in some wild times guys,
8:31
this is crazy. So, OK, so let's let's for those
8:35
listening, because I, I think everyone's kind of heard of AI
8:38
agents, but what are AI agents and how do they work?
8:42
So I I'm going to give a disclaimer, I'm not an expert in
8:47
AI agents, but I have several. OK, so an AI agent is based you.
8:53
Build them yourself. I do, yeah.
8:55
So it's it's kind of like having an employee that doesn't sleep
9:01
and doesn't need to eat and can do exactly what you tell it to
9:05
do. Every founder just like.
9:06
Tell me more. Yeah, tell me more.
9:10
The key there that you need to tell it exactly what you want it
9:13
to do, right? And you need it to build and
9:15
check. So imagine you have a very inept
9:19
employee who doesn't know anything, right?
9:21
And you would have to give it very, very specific
9:25
instructions. For example, when I get an
9:32
e-mail from this person, create a record in my customer
9:39
relationship management tool. Then take this name and the
9:46
company name and do a global search on the Internet to give
9:51
me more background on this person and any relation to this
9:55
business industry. And create a summary and put it
10:00
in this. Note that you're saving
10:03
somewhere so normally right you. And they can just repeat that
10:08
for any customer now. Exactly, exactly.
10:12
Now you've created the sequence, which sounds pretty simple, but
10:16
imagine doing it by hand every time, right?
10:19
It's. Kind of preparing for the
10:20
podcast, I could literally have someone look up your LinkedIn,
10:23
look up your website, give me the top 10 questions or areas I
10:26
need to dive in based on my podcast and my audience and what
10:29
I. Want to accomplish right?
10:30
Yep, exactly. Wow.
10:32
But then it does it when you're sleeping.
10:34
Yeah. And or some other time that you
10:36
don't know and it generates the content that you need to then
10:41
review and evaluate and then same thing testing, right?
10:44
You, you give it instruction, it could start pulling information
10:48
from a person with the same name, right?
10:51
Or a company, or maybe there is a misspelling or maybe there is
10:55
an evaluation, maybe there's a hallucination.
10:57
So how do you built in the structure to test it and to make
11:03
sure it doesn't make things up? Right.
11:07
But it's super powerful it it's a huge productivity boost
11:13
because you just at your fingertips, you exactly know the
11:16
whole research and then you can make decisions.
11:18
OK, what do I want to do next? What questions do I want to ask
11:22
I? Should have an AI researcher for
11:24
sure that does research for the podcast guest.
11:26
Yep, that would be your person. You.
11:28
Know researching backgrounds, looking to LinkedIn websites,
11:31
thinking of what topics, how I want to guide the conversation.
11:34
But I have a frameworks for all of this.
11:36
I can give it and say, this is how I structure my show, the
11:38
intro this, that, this, and then they can do all the grunt work
11:42
and I can just kind of go through and check it, maybe swap
11:44
a few things out here and there, refine it as I go.
11:47
So that's that's I think that one is more.
11:49
Some of these things are like easier to understand.
11:51
It's like, all right, you get an e-mail, you do the research, you
11:53
give me a summary. Got it.
11:55
What if you know the business? We have one of the businesses
11:58
podcast builders. What about for video editing
12:01
podcast management? I know you don't know that world
12:04
super well, but I'm saying like if I were to build an AI agent
12:07
in this business, aside from research, like how far can these
12:11
agents go? Like, you know, can they go in
12:14
and edit a video or could they, you know, if I give them a raw
12:17
video? That's why I think there's still
12:18
so much human involvement needed to a degree because like, can it
12:22
decide a thumbnail and a title and a description?
12:25
I mean, we use AI to do that, but there's a human involved in
12:28
that process. But I guess you could give it
12:29
the transcription of the podcast and they could just start doing
12:32
things. Right.
12:34
You would think that that would be available, yeah.
12:36
So if that's what you're looking for, go search.
12:39
Is that tool already in existence?
12:42
Can you just use it? Do you help companies do that
12:44
stuff, it's part of your process or no?
12:49
Like how did you build your own and what do you build it on?
12:51
That's the other question too, is like, if you're like, hey,
12:53
Elena, this sounds great. Like I'd love to have AI agents.
12:56
Where do you like look for a certain company that sells them
13:00
to you or do you try to go do it yourself?
13:01
Do you hire a consultant like? So yes, of for all of them, but
13:05
right for all of them, but there are individuals who this is what
13:08
their specialty is that I know several that this is what they
13:11
do to build AI agents. I can connect you to someone
13:15
with the. Conversation.
13:17
Are they founders in the area? Chicago.
13:20
OK, close enough. Yeah, close enough.
13:23
And so definitely happy to make an introduction.
13:27
There are several companies that specialize in creating these
13:32
kinds of agents. So one of them is like Relay dot
13:35
app, the other one is Zapier. So they, yeah, yeah.
13:39
So they're a little bit different in the implementation.
13:41
I've started playing more with Relay, a little bit less with
13:45
Xapier. We use Xapier for quite a bit of
13:47
automations and. Stuff, yes.
13:49
So I, I again, not my expertise, so I can't really speak about
13:53
the differences or pros and cons there are.
13:59
So you would think that this would exist, right?
14:01
So do a search, understand. OK.
14:04
Is this something that already exists before you start creating
14:07
your own custom tool? My experience so far has been
14:12
that what I imagine doesn't quite exist in the
14:16
implementation that I want. So it makes me frustrated
14:19
because I don't really want to build it myself.
14:22
I'd rather take it in. So my my vision, my ideal is I I
14:26
take a lot of notes and I have, you know, client emails.
14:31
I have research notes or just conversation notes, memos,
14:39
reports to the client. I want it all stored on my
14:43
computer. I want my AI agent to go and
14:45
mine all of this data from months of working with the same
14:49
client and help me analyze the next step.
14:52
OK, what is the next innovation strategy?
14:55
How do we structure it? How do we build the milestones?
14:58
How do we make the go no go decisions?
15:02
What is the market looking for? What is the next opportunity?
15:07
How do we structure the funding and based on all of this
15:10
research that I've already done, this is all of the data that
15:13
I've already accumulated, right? Basically giving access to my
15:17
internal knowledge base and working on that.
15:21
So it doesn't doesn't quite exist in the way that I need it
15:25
to be. So open Chlo, you mentioned a
15:27
little bit, it maybe does that. I just haven't tried it out yet.
15:31
And I know we won't spend too much time on AI agent stuff
15:34
because I know it's not like core, but it is something you
15:36
have experience with and you know, it's innovation.
15:38
It's like the top of mind for people right now.
15:41
One thing I do, I think is like a business hack is, and it might
15:44
be some people that listening do this, but there's probably a lot
15:46
of people that don't is every client I have, I create a custom
15:49
GPT for them. And I not just feed it
15:51
information and the stuff that we're doing, but also every
15:54
meeting we have, I transcribe the meeting, the transcription,
15:58
I feed it to that AI and then it remembers everything.
16:01
And so, you know, if I want to implement something, some things
16:03
I, you know, want to implement, I don't need the AIAI to tell me
16:06
what to do. But sometimes I like want it's
16:08
opinion or I say, hey, we're struck on this or this is an
16:10
idea we want to implement. What would be good this or this
16:13
or what's the next step for this, do you think?
16:15
Just to get some ideas out there.
16:17
And it'll challenge you too. Hey, challenge me on this belief
16:20
that I have about the direction that we're going.
16:21
Why wouldn't this work? What would be some speed bumps
16:24
we might run into and then it'll sit back.
16:26
Just really detailed stuff. And it might say like, hey, you
16:29
know, one of the meetings the CEO mentioned that they wanted
16:32
to stay away from this specific client profile or this specific
16:35
type of messaging. And it's like, I would have
16:37
forgot that potentially because it's four meetings ago and a lot
16:40
happened since then. So I think it's a good memory
16:43
tool. And it's a good like kind of
16:44
creative assistant to sit next to you and just say, help me.
16:47
You're not going to guide, you're not going to run the
16:48
ship, but you're going to be my shipmate.
16:51
You can be next to me and really help me through this process.
16:53
And I mean, I'll probably save 10 hours a week doing that.
16:56
So you need to be careful when you use the word memory because
17:00
the reality is that it does not have a memory.
17:04
But it does recall individual chat does.
17:07
Not really. What do you mean not really?
17:09
It doesn't have the ability and it's evolving, right?
17:13
All the tools are evolving. So maybe it has a longer
17:16
retention of information and it can look back further into the
17:20
history from the script that you have going back and forth.
17:26
But eventually it will forget things, forget things.
17:28
They're not going to be in relatable recallable memory,
17:33
right? So there is a methodology to
17:36
revive its memories to create when and I, I didn't come up
17:41
with this, right? Actually, my AI assistant helped
17:44
me come up with this. So you create what is called a
17:46
canonical project summary. Your AI assistant?
17:49
You mean the agent or a sub person?
17:53
A my agent. Oh.
17:56
Your agent. My a bot, right?
17:59
So, so I use, I have one AI bot that helps me work with my other
18:03
AI bot and generate this and work with this.
18:06
And I would be like, hey, this is what I want to do.
18:08
What is the exact prompt I should give my bot, my custom
18:14
bot to generate this kind of output?
18:16
And it will say, oh, this is how you should prompt it, right?
18:19
So prompting is is a skill in and of itself.
18:24
But this is the recommendation that I received from my AI
18:27
assistant saying hey you should extract because the memory is
18:32
limited right? And if you want to retain client
18:36
history for months at a time, it's not going to be able to
18:40
retain all of that. So tell it to give you a
18:44
canonical project summary every week, months or when things
18:49
change. That's a great idea.
18:50
And then, and then you extract it and you store it offline as a
18:55
text file or other type of file. And then you feed it back, say,
18:59
hey, here is my canonical project summary.
19:02
Now we had a new conversation. We are taking a new direction.
19:05
We are considering a new strategy.
19:07
Take it all into account and think about it.
19:10
Canonical project Summary. So that's good because I was
19:12
thinking about going from ChatGPT to Gemini since we
19:14
already used Google Workspace. And I was like, I'm not going to
19:16
be able to bring my like my memory for certain clients and
19:19
stuff because it it does store stuff.
19:21
But I think to your point, how far back does it go?
19:24
The other point I've ran into on ChatGPT is that once I use that
19:27
certain bot so many times because of the memory and all
19:31
that it's storing, it gets slow and laggy and it's like, so I've
19:34
been thinking about, I didn't want to move it or do that.
19:37
What is it called? The the what did you call?
19:40
It the canonical projects. Canonical project.
19:43
Project Summary. OK, what's canonical mean?
19:45
Well, Canon, this is Canon. This is your storyboard.
19:49
Canon, this is the true true to the project.
19:52
It's not making it up. It's it's pulling information.
19:55
Now, I don't have experience with ChatGPT.
19:57
Yeah, quite honest. I don't use ChatGPT.
19:59
I use several different tools. So I use perplexity when I need
20:04
to do search. I need to do deep search.
20:07
It's pretty good at as a research tool.
20:10
It's pretty good apparently also for studying.
20:15
You know you get material and it helps you study for for exams.
20:19
So I use perplexity. I use a clod.
20:24
Clod is good for reasoning. So you could say this is all my
20:28
body of information I need to like really as a as an advisor,
20:33
right, like, let's debate this is this is the direction.
20:36
How does it land with this particular information?
20:39
So it's good at reasoning A clawed and then I use a native
20:44
PO chat to kind of just standard interaction, like give me a
20:48
summary of this meeting or go or help me whatever brainstorms on
20:53
my ideas do. You know what's really crazy?
20:56
I'm sorry if I interrupted you and I don't think most people
20:59
know this is like you can just go voice, you can just talk back
21:02
and forth with your chat, whatever.
21:04
If it's Jim and I chat with you, whatever it is, and you can just
21:06
say, you know, I'll go back and forth.
21:09
Yo, what's up brother? Hey, quick question for you.
21:12
What is open claw and how is it different from like a ChatGPT?
21:16
Hey, so Open Claw isn't an actual product or platform, at
21:19
least not something widely known.
21:21
Maybe you're thinking of something else, or maybe it's an
21:23
internal name or a concept, but in general something like
21:26
ChatGPT is a conversational AI that responds in natural
21:29
language to pretty much anything you throw at it.
21:31
If open claw is supposed to be different, you'll have to give
21:34
me a hint. Is it a tool, a code name or
21:36
something? Funny.
21:37
Are you kidding me? You don't know what open claw
21:39
is. Are you just, are you trying to
21:40
like distract us from not using a different tool?
21:43
Like do some research and figure out what open claw is real
21:45
quick. Kidding around.
21:48
I definitely want you to use what fits best for you.
21:50
Let me look it up and we'll figure it out together next
21:53
time. All good.
21:54
So you're just gonna give up? It just hung up.
21:58
It just. Literally hung wow man, this is
22:01
the first time we had AI on the show and it just greatly
22:04
disappointed. Now is that did my say it is
22:07
open clock right? I mean, why would it not be
22:09
familiar with that? That's so.
22:10
Weird. Well, but sometimes you need to
22:13
prime it and say. This is the tool that I'm
22:16
considering. Hold on, let's do this real
22:18
quick while we're on. So open.
22:21
So remember what I was saying about a very rudimentary
22:24
employee, right? An employee who does not know
22:27
what is open clawed, right? You assumed it would.
22:30
Well, it doesn't. Yeah, because Open Claw AI,
22:32
personal AI assistant, I hear a lot of things about Open Claw
22:36
right now. It's the buzz.
22:37
So I think it's worth like, and I know founders listening to
22:39
this are hearing about it too. We're going to get to go to
22:41
market and a bunch of awesome stuff in a second.
22:43
But OK, let me do this. Let's see.
22:47
OK, well, I just gave you the open clause.
22:49
So what was your excuse for not knowing that?
22:50
Because I feel like everyone's talking about this.
22:53
Obviously, no excuses. Sometimes new stuff slips under
22:56
the radar until someone or Someone Like You brings it up.
22:59
I'm all about diving in when something's hot.
23:01
Now that I know, I'm actually pretty pumped to see how tools
23:03
like that evolve. So what's the difference?
23:05
What What's open claw versus like a chachi PT or different AI
23:08
agents? Open Claw stands out because it
23:11
aims to be more of an autonomous agent, so instead of just
23:14
chatting or providing answers, it can actually carry out tasks
23:17
on your behalf like booking things or managing files.
23:21
ChatGPT, on the other hand, is. Conversation, right.
23:23
So it's just, it's just, it's an AI agent then.
23:26
Exactly, it's all about the ability to take action beyond
23:30
conversation. It's like having a proactive
23:32
assistant who can actually do stuff whereas ChatGPT is your
23:35
good. Right.
23:36
So, OK, that makes sense. I mean, that's basically just an
23:38
AI agent, maybe has a. I'm sure there's more.
23:40
To it, your assistant has quite a character.
23:42
He does. He's like his accent.
23:43
He's got a British accent. But the reason I want to do that
23:47
too is like you can be actually be in the car and like working
23:50
through a specific problem, you know, assuming that they're
23:53
knowledgeable, you can bounce ideas back and forth.
23:56
Or you could even, it could even be dinner you're making tonight.
23:58
Hey, I want to make a new dinner tonight.
24:00
I've got chicken, vegetables. What what can I make?
24:02
Or I'm working through a problem with an employee or we're going
24:06
through a go to market strategy. We're working with our
24:07
consultant and here's a direction.
24:09
I have some concerns about this. What are your thoughts?
24:11
Help me, help me vet this out. So I would recommend not doing
24:14
it while you're driving. Why?
24:17
It's distracting. You're driving, you should pay
24:19
attention. Well, if you're hands free.
24:23
Though, OK. I mean, while you're driving,
24:27
Yeah, as long. As you're it, it could.
24:29
I know people are recording videos while they're driving.
24:31
I'm like. Don't, yeah, don't do that.
24:33
Scare me with that. Don't do that.
24:34
But then if you start, you know, oh, let me give it to you.
24:36
You start getting distracted. You get too much into the
24:39
conversation. It's engaging.
24:41
Driving. Well, this is a disclaimer.
24:42
Don't do that while you drive. Thank you.
24:46
So what I really like doing is using a transcription app.
24:52
Let's say I go to a client meeting and I'm not able to
24:55
transcribe the conversation for a variety of reasons.
24:59
They're not comfortable. They didn't give me permission.
25:01
I didn't feel like it was appropriate to ask.
25:04
So I would get into the car and while my memory is still fresh,
25:07
I would turn it on and it can go for an hour.
25:10
So say I have 1/2 an hour drive. I'm not in a rush to finish an
25:14
audio note in a minute and a half.
25:16
I can just talk. Yeah.
25:17
And talk and talk and talk and talk.
25:19
And this what we talk. Oh, I forgot about this.
25:21
I do the same thing. You do all of this, all of this,
25:23
and then you just come home and you're like, hey, give me a
25:26
summary of this meeting and action items and draw me some
25:30
conclusions. And what did I learn new
25:33
compared to this e-mail exchange that I already preloaded to
25:36
beautiful. So that's kind of the type of
25:39
productivity that anyone can use, yes.
25:42
And I was reading an article not too long ago that basically said
25:47
two things. One, companies who don't use AI,
25:51
like refuse to or individuals who refuse to, they're gonna be
25:55
behind for sure. So it's not going anywhere just
25:58
because you're refusing to use it.
26:00
It's not going away. It's like people who refuse to
26:02
use the telephone. One, yeah, or the Internet,
26:03
right? Yeah.
26:04
Or the I'm not doing this damn e-mail thing and then everyone's
26:06
doing e-mail so. I'm gonna put it in the mail and
26:08
it's gonna, you know, the postman is gonna put a stamp on
26:10
it and things like that. Or while you might as well use a
26:14
postage pigeon. Yeah, no kidding.
26:18
So that's one thing. The second one is AI is not
26:21
going to necessarily replace our work, but augmented.
26:26
So there is no substitution for the creativity and the kind of
26:32
connecting things and and coming up with solutions and even
26:36
evaluating what the AI agent tells you to do right when
26:40
you're debating. There is no substitution for
26:41
human knowledge, the knowledge that you've accumulated your
26:44
throughout your human experience and life.
26:47
Like you make podcasts, right? You can't just tell an AI agent
26:51
don't make a podcast. Yeah, it will substitute.
26:53
Maybe it will be a very highly executing intern, but at some
27:02
point it will reach a limit that you're like, come on, this is
27:04
silly. Yeah, I can do better without
27:06
you, right. So but then if you can
27:09
supplement your work and give it the busy work that you would,
27:14
that is really draining to you that like taking meeting notes
27:19
or coming up with deadlines and action items to pull out from
27:24
meeting. Now this is annoying.
27:26
It can take you half an hour to just do that and your agent can
27:30
do it in, you know, seconds. Yeah, it's.
27:34
Crazy. And it's this is the very
27:36
beginning, which is really what's wild is that if we flash
27:39
forward three years to five years, 10 years, I mean, it's
27:41
going to get crazy. Yeah.
27:43
And so it's your point, Like you got to be using AI and just find
27:47
ways to cut down. Your meeting point is exactly
27:49
right. I do that too all the time.
27:50
I'll do brain dumps just like here's what I'm thinking about
27:53
or here's an idea for a content or a part of a YouTube video,
27:56
whatever it is. And then AI can organize that
27:58
and however you want it to be. Yeah.
28:00
So the where you do need to be careful and it it's still an
28:04
unresolved topic is privacy and security.
28:08
So let's say when if you meet with a client and they give you
28:11
some proprietary information. Don't give it to your AI.
28:15
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
28:16
And that is why when I was talking about I wanted local on
28:19
my machine, then I contain it, right And I don't share it
28:24
beyond it, don't send it to the cloud.
28:25
I don't need to worry about it leaving my machine.
28:29
Yeah. And so far I haven't been able
28:31
to implement. It well, that's why you've got
28:33
financial firms using Harvey or using Jump AI, you got law firms
28:37
using Harvey AI. There's specific AI companies
28:43
that focus on specific industries where they know they
28:47
have to be compliant. It's got to be privacy.
28:50
Like it's, it's not just an open source to, you know, chatty, who
28:53
knows what they're doing with your information, Gemini, all of
28:55
them. Supposedly they have limits.
28:58
Yeah, supposedly exactly. OK, let's talk a little go to
29:01
market. OK, so GTM, what what is go to
29:05
market for new companies or would would people use go to
29:09
markets that have existing companies, maybe they're
29:10
launching a new product or a service.
29:12
You know, we just went through this with podcast builders that
29:15
kind of rethink how are we going to bring this to market?
29:16
What's are going to be our channels, what's our, you know,
29:19
it could be both, right. So what's your, what's the
29:22
process like? What's the go to market strategy
29:25
in your mind? What are the different?
29:26
Kind of. Well, it depends.
29:27
It depends on your product. It depends on your client or
29:30
your customer profile. It depends on the problem that
29:33
you're solving, geography, how are you distributing and just
29:37
like the things that you mentioned, right, what is the,
29:39
what are the different channels, if it's a software product, if
29:42
it's a hardware product, if it's a consumer product, if it's a
29:47
business to business. But is there a certain kind of
29:49
framework or maybe different phases that you would take, you
29:53
know, a company through to say, first thing we need to do is
29:56
understand this, then it's going to be this?
29:58
You know, I looked up a couple things.
29:59
It was like from AI, it was like niche, your point of view,
30:02
flagship, offering acquisition, conversion path, create early
30:07
proof, systematize sales, you know, yadda yadda.
30:10
I'm just curious if there's. Something yeah, that mean this
30:12
is the standard framework, right?
30:14
So the first step, right, it's in any sales process, first you
30:19
need to validate that your product solves a problem, right?
30:22
So you first identify that you have a product market fit OK.
30:27
So let's use podcast builders. Yeah, yeah.
30:29
So a usual challenge with startup founders, especially
30:34
technical founders, is they have a solution looking for a
30:36
problem. Exactly, exactly.
30:39
This is a really cool tool. It's like no one needs it.
30:41
Like there's something. Else absolutely they need it,
30:43
they just don't know it. OK, so you want to go and
30:45
evangelize your product, OK, great.
30:47
Good luck. You know, come back to me when
30:50
you actually have validated the problem.
30:52
So this is this is foundation and it's different when you talk
30:56
about when you talk to early stage founders versus an
31:00
established company because an established company, you would
31:03
think that they are over that they figured it out.
31:07
They're not going to just chase the dream, although sometimes
31:09
they still do. So validating the product market
31:13
fit, talking to your customer. And then a lot of my work is
31:20
with tangible products. So it's not software even though
31:24
I have several non tangible products which is just just a
31:29
software. So how do you so let?
31:34
Let's do a little workshop, OK? I love, I love doing this.
31:37
Stuff podcast builders. OK, let's let's let's do a
31:40
little workshop. Go to market.
31:42
Cool, let's do it. What do you need?
31:46
What do you want? Where are you?
31:48
Yeah, where are you now? So I have impacts marketing,
31:51
which I've had the last six years, which you can consider it
31:53
like a fractional CMO, right? OK, so you help companies build
31:55
in house content teams so they don't need to rely on other
31:58
companies to do content. They can do it themselves with
32:01
hiring, coaching, training, strategy, all that stuff.
32:03
Then I launched Podcast Builders, which is now, yeah, we
32:07
have the studio here. So you rent the studio, we do
32:09
the editing, back work production, and then we help
32:12
build a strategy around it where it attracts clients.
32:14
So the whole thing with Podcast Builders before any of that
32:16
tactical stuff is relationships are everything in business.
32:19
And we believe that if you build a podcast, you can own the
32:22
conversation, build relationships, and turn that
32:24
directly into revenue for your business.
32:27
It's not depending on an algorithm, it's AI proof and
32:30
it's something that you have full control of.
32:31
And then you can create a bunch of content for social media,
32:34
website and other channels. That's kind of the premise of
32:36
it. It's not like, hey, do a
32:37
podcast, it's fun and hopefully you become Joe Rogan or you'll
32:40
get all this content from it. It's like this is a revenue
32:43
generating machine. OK.
32:44
So there are two things that you said that that I kind of want to
32:47
pause on one. This is great, I love.
32:51
This, this is great. Yeah, this is.
32:52
Great content, guys. You're getting to see this.
32:55
This is like action items. Yeah.
32:58
So 1 you said that we it is a relationship based.
33:08
OK, well, how are you creating your relationship with a
33:14
podcast? Podcast is very one directional.
33:17
What do you mean? Well, you're transmitting to the
33:20
world. You're not.
33:22
With a guest. OK.
33:25
Oh, OK. OK.
33:26
So that's different. So if.
33:30
Yeah. So let.
33:31
Me clear so right so and we started this podcast almost
33:33
going on in almost two years and I saw the relationships that
33:36
came out of it I saw the depth, the content, the conversations I
33:40
saw afterwards I continued to talk to these people they
33:43
referred business they became clients and I was like my gosh,
33:46
I don't have to worry about an algorithm.
33:48
I can just sit across from someone from 45 to 60 minutes
33:50
and that's going to open up opportunities and things like
33:53
that so that's where it came from so the relationship is not
33:57
the algorithms, the con, the podcast, the show, the show
33:59
could actually do absolutely nothing It could do 0 downloads.
34:02
I could post 0 content even though I think that'd be a
34:04
waste, but even if that happened I'm still going to win clients,
34:07
generate referrals, build relationships, especially
34:10
locally. But why?
34:11
What? Do you mean?
34:12
But what what makes you win clients through making a podcast
34:16
if you don't have downloads and you don't have investor?
34:20
Sorry, I should have clarified. The guest that you bring on, if
34:23
you run at 70% of them are potential clients, or you could
34:25
even run 100%, but a minimum 50% or more are fit your potential
34:29
client demographic. Right.
34:31
So what do you do for them, right?
34:33
Like I'm breaking it down for you, right?
34:35
What do you do for them? You generate, you have a
34:37
conversation and then you demonstrate them your product.
34:44
Yes, I'm I'm asking a question. Like a sales process.
34:47
Like I said, like what are you doing for them at that?
34:51
Is it for the marketing? Yeah.
34:53
Yeah, I mean, it's helping. So you generated some video for
34:56
them or an audio and some other materials.
35:00
Is that correct when you? Yes, that would be the output on
35:04
the back end, right? But the front end, we're going
35:06
to help them build a strategy around their podcast, right, to
35:09
get guests on the show that become clients they can build.
35:12
But what kind of guest? What kind of client?
35:15
That's what I'm getting at. It's like that that model fits a
35:19
very particular type of business, say if I'm selling
35:23
widgets. Right.
35:25
Right, If I'm making widgets, physical widgets, and selling
35:28
with physical widgets, what kind of guest on my podcast would
35:32
help me generate business? Yeah, no, it's AB2B service
35:35
based company service, Yeah. So I mean, and really high
35:37
ticket, right. So it's like if it's a staffing
35:39
and recruiting firm, we're gonna and they maybe they staff for
35:42
manufacturing. We're gonna have a bunch of
35:43
manufacturing CEOs on the show, OK.
35:45
And talk about the industry, manufacturing, it's coming back,
35:47
it's exciting. It's this that and they're gonna
35:49
build relationships with those people and there's gonna be
35:52
opportunities there. And we've just seen this happen
35:53
in, in any industry, whether it's healthcare software or
35:56
whatever it is, as long as it's a bigger ticket item.
35:59
Because to your point, if you're selling 100 or widget, you need
36:01
to go run ads like you need to pump out high volume, high
36:04
conversion viral videos. Like it's influencer marketing.
36:07
It's a different play. Not that you can't do some of
36:09
those in B2B, but this is like slower sales processes, long
36:13
higher ticket sticky offerings, things like that.
36:16
But what is it that you're doing during the podcast or your
36:20
clients that are building their pockets?
36:22
What is it that they're doing that generates the business?
36:26
Having a conversation for 45 to 60 minutes, that's intentional.
36:30
Building a relationship with them and then teaching them what
36:32
to do before the podcast and then what to do afterwards.
36:35
So touch points all that. Stuff.
36:36
So why having the podcast is any better than having a
36:40
conversation without a recording equipment?
36:43
Well, because what's the ask if you're going to ask someone if I
36:46
got a big CEO of a manufacturing company, right, Let's say I'm
36:48
staffing and recruiting and I'm done.
36:50
I'm want to get a manufacturing CEO out to lunch.
36:53
What's my ask for him? What's your ask for him?
36:57
Well, if it's a sales pitch, it's going to be, you know, hey,
36:59
I think I can help your company. And he's like, we work with a
37:02
bunch of other recruiters and we have three, you know, on staff
37:05
now the barrier to get through to that.
37:07
And I did sales for 10 years, B2B sales in staffing and
37:09
recruiting in manufacturing. So the barrier for that is going
37:12
to be pretty tough. You can do it.
37:14
But if I, if I go to that same CEO like I do here and I'm like,
37:17
hey, you should come on the podcast, a bunch of free
37:19
exposure for you, free content. We'll get your brand out there.
37:23
We'll have a great conversation. Da da, that's an easier app.
37:26
Yeah, but then you're like, oh, by the way, I also do
37:28
recruiting. Well, yeah.
37:31
OK, good for you. What?
37:33
Do you mean? Like what is I don't see the the
37:37
relation between someone coming on the podcast and becoming a
37:40
customer. Well.
37:43
I don't see that link. So you're you made a claim, how
37:46
would? It be any different if you spent
37:47
an hour at lunch with somebody. Right.
37:50
So why is this any different than spending a lunch or
37:53
meeting? So, so it's like this is what
37:55
I'm this, this is this is like you validated this, right?
37:58
You, you validated this, but I'm not seeing it because I haven't
38:01
been through the validation process with you.
38:03
So that's why I'm asking like, OK, what makes it click better
38:07
than just having a one-on-one conversation?
38:10
Right. Well, two things.
38:11
One, it's harder to get those one-on-one conversations because
38:14
you don't have. So, so they offer them, right.
38:16
So instead of a cold out, so you're doing a cold and you're
38:19
like, OK, now it's warmer, OK. The, the bigger upside of this
38:23
on the back end is that once you have the conversation, you've
38:26
now got video, audio. So now you actually have content
38:29
to post on LinkedIn, on your website, on social media.
38:33
You now have these touch points afterwards with the guests.
38:35
I mean, think we do the show, we're going to have all these
38:38
clips. Now we're going to tag you in
38:39
the clips. You're going to tag us, you're
38:40
going to be posting. It creates your network to get
38:43
involved. Now people are going to your
38:44
network are going to see it. So it's a huge ripple effect.
38:46
So is it the? Is it the reciprocity that you
38:50
gave them material and therefore they will be more likely to
38:54
engage with you for whatever other business that you're
38:57
doing? Potentially some of that, but
38:59
part of it's like, hey, if you're spending quality time
39:01
with somebody, like if I asked you if I said, hey, Lena, I'm
39:04
going to give you a show and you can use the studio, which is
39:07
podcast builders. And I said every month you're
39:09
going to bring on 10 potential clients.
39:12
These are who's a business owner for you?
39:13
Like is it CEO or or ICP for you?
39:16
Ideal client profile is like a business owner CEO.
39:19
Someone from the leadership team an.
39:21
Executive and I said we're going to get 10 people.
39:24
We're going to create badass video content 1st and build a
39:27
nice trailer and a couple episodes with people that will
39:29
come on the show and just do the show with you.
39:31
After that they're going to see holy cow, this person puts on
39:33
quality. We got a podcast website.
39:35
Now it's going to look legit. Now you get 10 people to come on
39:39
and sit across from you from 45 to 60 minutes, and you're
39:42
talking about their world, what's going on, the industry,
39:44
what's happening. How many out of those 10 do you
39:47
think you'd be able to set up a next step with?
39:50
I don't know what would you, I don't know if it would be any
39:54
different than if I just had a conversation with them.
39:57
But how would you get the conversation?
40:00
How would I ask them to come on the podcast?
40:03
But that's an easy, it's there's a ton of benefits for that.
40:06
Yeah. Free publicity.
40:07
A bunch of free edited content. But it's a lot of effort.
40:11
Not really. You show up and talk.
40:13
I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, your access to people is
40:17
like so much greater. If you have something to offer,
40:21
it's like, hey, invite. I think that's a new way of
40:22
marketing. It's like it's relational
40:24
marketing. It's conversational.
40:25
Same way if you did an event, why do conferences work?
40:28
Why do people getting on stage and speaking to keynotes be it's
40:31
all like, hey, if I spend time with you, we now have something,
40:35
we have a connection in a bond. And it wasn't like me.
40:37
Hey, Lena, would you come out? I want to pitch you on my
40:38
marketing services, you know. Yeah.
40:40
So if I, if I wanted to, let's see if I wanted to have A to
40:48
have someone, let's say if I had a need, if I had a need for to
40:54
identify partners, that would be a really good tool, right?
41:03
Because then we could find this, OK, let's do this business
41:06
together. This is an interesting thing to
41:08
happen, but why does it need to be recorded?
41:13
And this is what I struggle with, right?
41:15
That that the podcast itself seems to be a different type of
41:20
business in a different type of relationship and a different
41:23
type of direction than actually talking about, hey, let's let's
41:30
do a workshop on your business. Hey, this is what my style is.
41:34
Come back to me and we'll do an actual strategy of go to market
41:38
or innovation or things like that.
41:40
But you're not building brand, you're not owning the
41:43
conversation in the industry. Yes.
41:45
So if if the goal is to yes. If the like showing up to a
41:48
bunch of conferences versus I'm putting on the conferences,
41:51
yeah, I'm having guests come speak on the stage.
41:53
I'm having, I'm speaking on the stage.
41:55
We're creating a bunch of content for social media that's
41:57
gonna attract other customers, right.
42:00
So there's this whole like, I mean, I've, you know, for me, my
42:02
background is social media. It's like LinkedIn, YouTube,
42:05
TikTok. I mean, I've 100 hundred plus
42:06
clients, high ticket clients on those social platforms, so I
42:10
know the power of what content can do.
42:11
Yeah. I just think that's actually
42:13
like the secondary thing. That's like, hey, the
42:16
relationship, the the clients you can win from the
42:18
conversations you have because that just matter.
42:21
We've just seen that happen. And I've run podcasts in a ton
42:23
of different industries. It's worked every single time.
42:26
Yeah. I mean, we just wrapped up for a
42:27
software for a healthcare software company.
42:30
They had three podcasts. Two of them are leads already
42:32
and then one of them, they hired the damn guy.
42:34
So it's like. It's it's but then on the.
42:35
Back end you get all the content.
42:37
So it's like that's not to go on a marketing, you know on us
42:39
staying course here, but just like I think this is good and if
42:43
you had probably time to go through the business model a
42:45
little bit more, I think you know.
42:46
Yeah, in my health, it's just so new to me.
42:49
That and well. It's your.
42:50
First podcast. Yeah, well, it's actually my
42:52
second podcast. In person though.
42:54
Not in person. OK, so first SO.
42:56
Second podcast ever. Of course you're not going to
42:58
understand the business. Model.
42:59
So that's why I'm struggling so much.
43:01
It's like, what's the connection, right?
43:03
But just think about it like this do.
43:04
You and I'm not typically slow, you believe.
43:06
In social media, do you believe that it's helpful to get your
43:09
brand out there that you can win clients from get speaking
43:12
engagements and guest on podcast?
43:14
Do you think it's good to have a brand?
43:15
I believe that it is good for certain if it's used, corrected
43:21
correctly and for specific purpose and goals.
43:26
So thought leadership is important, right?
43:29
Coming across as the expert in the field.
43:32
Hey, I know what I'm talking about, come and ask me, right.
43:36
So a good example would be professors typically get a lot
43:39
of requests for consulting, right, right, because they're
43:42
already out there. You know, there is this trust
43:44
based relationship with their students, their students leave
43:47
to the world. They also do research that
43:49
someone else pays for, which is university, right?
43:51
And you can just tap into all that knowledge and.
43:54
And so in a way, right. How do you the social media
43:58
content, you'd be like, OK, I am my own professor speaking to the
44:03
world. Exactly.
44:04
So from that perspective, yeah. So you need to have the content
44:07
to do that, right. Having the guest as the audience
44:13
to help generate that content. It creates a more lively
44:17
conversation, of course. Yeah.
44:18
So you just talked me through accepting that this is a valid
44:23
business process. OK, good.
44:25
I'm glad we're there cuz I think there's there's so much value
44:28
cuz again, you have it's, it's a 2 for one.
44:31
You have this stuff. Yeah.
44:33
I mean, we talk here. It's just it's a new industry
44:35
for me. Yeah, for.
44:36
Sure. No, it's like a new, it's
44:37
somewhat of a new category in a lot of ways, right.
44:39
And you know, but I, you know, I think after we spend this time
44:42
together, you know, even though you may not be a direct fit for
44:44
us, but you're gonna know people.
44:45
And I'm getting involved because of Joe that I had on the show a
44:50
few episodes back. I'm now getting involved with
44:53
some of the people at Innovation at the page.
44:55
And you can go into an event, I met you at an event.
44:58
It's just like you've got to get in front of people and build
45:00
relationships and get to know them.
45:02
And I think this is one way to do it.
45:04
It's not the only way, but it's one way.
45:05
And then on the back of that, imagine all those networking
45:08
events where you're talking about the.
45:09
Cool stuff you're doing around. Stage.
45:11
Now that's all content. Right.
45:12
Yeah, exactly. You don't need to go to
45:14
gazillion networking events and say the exact same thing.
45:17
Here's the compounding effect that most people don't realize.
45:19
We're looking at this as like, OK, we've been doing this less
45:21
than two years. Imagine three years, five years.
45:24
Yeah, six years when this is like the Chicagoland
45:27
Entrepreneurial podcast. I'm actually shocked that you're
45:30
like not better known with a with a website like yours.
45:34
Well, it takes time, though. From a podcast standpoint, yeah.
45:37
I mean, we're less than. We're 100 episodes in.
45:39
That's like nothing in podcasts. Probably, yeah, probably.
45:42
Again, it takes time. Not my industry, but.
45:43
Yeah, I mean, Dirisivo, Joe Rogan, all of them spent, they
45:47
spent years, you know, before anyone really.
45:50
But again, the long term is great, but in the short term,
45:54
we're generating a bunch of great content.
45:56
We're building a movement, a community around it.
45:58
That's cool. Yeah, we're winning clients from
46:00
it. So it's like to me, that's why I
46:01
think it's the ultimate. It's a short term victory, but
46:04
also long term you will own the conversation.
46:06
Yeah, so one of the things that I noticed recently and I and it
46:12
has to do with the thought leadership and community
46:14
building. I see folks coming on and with
46:19
the shorts on LinkedIn and you know, just podcast or video
46:24
episodes. And I also see especially the
46:29
service businesses generating community events.
46:33
So there is cohort based learning or cohort based
46:36
services. And, and I think it's just a new
46:39
style of doing business, which is pretty cool because you're
46:43
not just benefiting from working with the consultant one-on-one
46:47
or with the consulting firm, right, One-on-one, you're also
46:51
benefiting from having this cohort.
46:54
But in a way, it is also a different business model.
46:58
You don't just as a consultant, right, you're not just making
47:02
money doing work for someone, you're also engaging with the
47:07
community, giving back to whatever your engagement model
47:10
is. So it's, it's fascinating.
47:11
It's interesting. I think it's a slightly
47:13
different skill set too. So for me at this moment is a
47:17
little bit uncomfortable because it's it is a different skill set
47:21
than just, hey, just let me come in and do the work.
47:24
Yeah, totally. Yeah.
47:25
When you build a community, it's yeah.
47:26
And you could even mix in both. You could do you know, someone
47:29
on ones consulting work and then also build a community around
47:31
it, right. That was my first product.
47:33
In 2020 I launched a LinkedIn video boot camp.
47:36
Something listening might be a part of that.
47:38
And it was part community, Part 1 on one part digital assets and
47:42
courses. So, but the community aspect was
47:45
amazing. I have friends from there that I
47:46
still talk to you today. Right.
47:48
It's like. We still text and stuff today.
47:49
It's like, yeah, it's it's. And then people fed off each
47:52
other because now you got leaders stepping up and they're,
47:54
hey, this just worked for me yesterday.
47:55
I did this and this and helped me win a client and someone's
47:57
like, I'll try that tomorrow, you know?
47:59
So yeah. OK, so back on the go to market
48:03
Rails. OK.
48:04
Yeah, hopefully. Do you do with the workshop?
48:06
I say that this this podcast founder talk is the real estate
48:09
room in entrepreneurship. And I think I gotta be willing
48:11
to get vulnerable and open and share and have somebody give me
48:15
feedback and dissect it. And I think this is the same for
48:18
the guest. So I like the live stuff.
48:20
I don't think enough people are doing that.
48:22
Just having real conversations, like let's just talk some real
48:24
shit here. Like me and you were just, it's
48:26
not like where the cameras are rolling this like me and you
48:27
were just having lunch or dinner, right?
48:29
It's a little different. Well, I guess maybe I'm so used
48:33
to it, you know? You're so used to it.
48:34
But. But this is, it's actually an
48:36
interesting demonstration because what you just
48:38
experienced, right, is me asking hard questions.
48:41
Yeah. And I do that, Yeah.
48:43
And some people don't like that. Yeah.
48:45
And they don't call back, which is fine.
48:48
Yeah, but they didn't really want to grow if that's the case
48:51
because. But, but that is my style,
48:53
right? How do I uncover where you need
48:55
actual help and support? If you know all the answers,
48:58
great, you don't need me, right? Right, you don't need as anti
49:02
consulting to come in and and do a, you know, innovation strategy
49:06
for you in development. But if you you know, through
49:10
asking these difficult questions, right, then that's
49:12
when I cover, OK, what is your need?
49:15
What is your alignment and what can you do actually to move to
49:20
the next step? And that's kind of where where
49:23
they so this is what you just experienced.
49:25
So, so welcome to the club. So I appreciate it and I'm all
49:28
about it. And I try to challenge my
49:29
clients the same way, right? Like I earlier today had a
49:32
similar conversation where I challenge their way of thinking.
49:34
Yeah. And they're receptive to it and
49:36
they when they want that because they want to grow.
49:38
But now let's go back to your go to market strategy.
49:40
OK, OK, really quickly, imagine if you now are you having these
49:43
client calls virtually? Most often, yes.
49:47
Imagine now you are recording yourself.
49:49
So now just not the client getting the impact.
49:52
Now you can publish that content to the other prospects can see
49:56
it. And other people that are
49:58
listening to this right now that are in various stages of their
50:00
business as a founder or aspiring founders are listening
50:03
to this now and go, wow, this is like, I mean, this could this
50:06
could change somebody's life, you know?
50:08
And so I think it has impact beyond if it's just me and you
50:11
talking, it's me and you talking, right?
50:13
If we now record it and now everyone gets to see this,
50:16
there's a greater impact and there's a greater brand and
50:18
there's a greater opportunity to bring more people in, whatever
50:21
that looks like. So that's my whole thing is I
50:23
and I have a whole T-shirt on it called I am the content.
50:25
You are the content. Yeah, you just got to record it
50:28
and dialogue in and, you know, record these conversations and
50:31
you can put it out there. Back to the go to market.
50:34
You're going to ask me something?
50:36
Else well, let's keep pork shopping.
50:37
OK, what else do you? What else would you want to
50:39
know? So you validated, let's just
50:43
recite, right, you validated that if you have a podcast, you
50:48
bring individuals in, you have easier access, yes, to your
50:52
ideal client, way easier. And you develop the relationship
50:56
faster and deeper than you would otherwise.
50:58
I love where you're going this this is cuz you're really
51:00
getting down to the actual value.
51:02
I appreciate that it you end up with follow on conversations
51:06
that lead to business. Yeah.
51:09
And then on the back end you get all the content.
51:10
It would helps you build brand own the.
51:12
Conversation, but from the podcast creator, that's correct.
51:15
That's your, you know, sales. Funnel good relationship, built
51:21
access points on the back end to continue that conversation for
51:24
months and months. Years.
51:25
Yeah. So we figured it out.
51:26
What else do you need? Yeah.
51:27
Well, I mean, but then, yeah. But what's the other part of
51:32
that process? What am I missing?
51:34
Signing the contract. A lot of people actually have a
51:39
difficulty converting a good conversation and a good
51:43
relationship into actually paying business.
51:48
Valuing your work correctly. Let me touch on that too, in
51:53
case someone's wondering, because I think what I don't
51:56
want people to do from this is take this like I'm starting to
51:57
podcast and they do super salesy pitchy things where people are
52:00
like, oh, they just got me here to pitch them.
52:02
Like that's terrible, right? You have to.
52:05
And I've had that experience. I was on a podcast recently.
52:07
It was 15 minutes long. I'm like this time long enough
52:09
that podcast. And then literally at the end,
52:11
they started asking me a bunch of questions about like my
52:13
business. And it was just very cold.
52:15
It just didn't feel like we had any relationship whatsoever.
52:17
We didn't go deep on anything. And then they were just like
52:19
trying to pitch me at the end. And I was like, this is a
52:21
terrible experience and I'd never buy from you.
52:22
So I let it kind of happen organically.
52:25
Or you can ask me maybe one question, like, hey, I saw you
52:27
guys were doing this. If you ever thought about doing
52:29
something, I'm happy to do a free audit for you.
52:30
Yeah, I'll come by and just run through your LinkedIn, run
52:32
through this and just show you some opportunities, no strings
52:35
attached. Like no pressure, just I love
52:36
helping my podcast guest out. And I'll do that for anyone.
52:38
I have done that for everyone if they want.
52:42
And so I think there's the, to your point, making the sale
52:44
afterwards, it's got to be intentional, but it can't be.
52:47
It can't come across like a giant sales pitch.
52:50
Well, but at some point you have to right, you have to come
52:53
across and say, OK, we've we've done this work together.
52:57
You know, you need me, I know that I can help you this how
53:00
much it's going to cost and let's do it right?
53:04
So, so that's often a challenge, especially like I have this
53:10
challenge too, right? Is the converting OK?
53:12
I can help you all you want, but that having that conversation
53:15
and converting, it's always like, am I gonna do this
53:18
actually right? How are we gonna have this
53:20
conversation? Now, did you have sales
53:22
experience before becoming an entrepreneur?
53:25
Yes and no, right. My background is engineering, so
53:29
OK, well they don't teach us that in engineering, so I came.
53:33
From sales. So for me it was like and like,
53:35
yeah, relationship building, uncovering a pain, making sure
53:38
you can like to me, it was more of a natural probably move to
53:42
entrepreneurship because it's very sales based.
53:43
But if you didn't come from a rigorous Commission sales job,
53:47
that's. Something comfortable.
53:48
Now there's things I suck at early on as an entrepreneur that
53:52
you were probably great at, like from an engineering technical
53:54
standpoint and how you think through thought processes.
53:57
I might have took me 3 years to figure out what you did.
53:59
You knew day one. Which is what technical thought.
54:02
Processes, yeah. Thinking just how you broke that
54:05
down Now, the engineering mindset behind processes and
54:08
systems, that's not something I didn't know anything about that.
54:12
I had to learn part of that and I'm still not great at it, you
54:15
know? That's great.
54:16
It's so are we good to? Move on or should we still stay
54:18
on the go to market thing? Is there anything else?
54:20
I don't know what can I help you with.
54:22
Well, I don't want let's. Use this time.
54:24
Well, I also want to make sure we're giving value to the
54:26
audience and that they're not bored by this.
54:28
I hope you guys are staying in with this one and like it and
54:31
actually, you know, send me an e-mail, drop us a comment, leave
54:34
us a note on this episode and ask, hey, do you want to see
54:37
more of live kind of demonstrations like this or
54:40
breakdowns? Because it doesn't have to be my
54:41
business. We could look at any business,
54:43
break it down, and would this be valuable to you guys?
54:45
Let us know because we need the feedback, right?
54:47
Yeah, we don't know. This was actually great fun for
54:49
me. I love doing that.
54:50
OK, let's let's go through that. Let's try and yeah, this this
54:54
way you also see how I work, right?
54:57
What kind of questions? You look at the dynamics.
55:00
Yeah, you know what? She's a little too intense for
55:02
me. And you're like, this is exactly
55:03
what I needed, so let's do it again.
55:05
I'm gonna, you know, if you did it, I would hire you if you did
55:08
the AI agents thing. But I'm gonna, if you know
55:10
someone that does it, then I'm gonna get connected.
55:12
And so this is this is it, right?
55:14
Yeah, and I love connecting. People to other people, right?
55:17
It's just it. And so it's like, yeah, anyways,
55:20
what? Let's talk about sustainable
55:22
business growth. I had that down to talk about.
55:24
So how do I grow my company consistently year over year
55:28
without it being a roller coaster of ups and downs?
55:30
Is that something you help companies with?
55:32
And what advice or strategy might you give them?
55:36
So consistent growth year over year, it comes down really still
55:45
to validating the customer pain point and delivering a solution
55:51
on the back end. You still have to verify that
55:55
you're delivering the solution with sufficient profit margin
56:00
that will give you the growth, right?
56:02
So if you grow too fast, you could choke.
56:05
If you're growing too slow, you're just too slow to finding
56:09
that sweet spot and identifying that it's very cast by case
56:12
scenario, right. So there is no one formula that
56:16
you know, you go to Business School, you learn the formula,
56:18
you just plug it in. It's it's in a way a little bit
56:22
of an art, a little bit of a science.
56:24
It's not like engineering actually, unfortunately, but but
56:30
the growth happens. So there there are different
56:38
types of growth that a company could go through.
56:41
Let's take an, you know, an established company.
56:43
Let's not talk about new early startups that you typically work
56:47
with. Well, I don't work with
56:49
startups, but yeah. Founder talks. 7 to 7 to 8
56:53
figure service based companies would be our target OK.
56:56
Demographic, so which is again service based is a little bit
57:00
outside of my kind of world because I I deal with more
57:05
tangible products, but let's say it's all happening.
57:08
A figure or that be bigger or smaller.
57:10
Are you in that range? Roughly in that range, Small
57:13
medium sized companies, right? Yeah, small, medium sized
57:15
companies, right. So the let's see, let's see,
57:21
let's see. So you, you have a company and
57:25
let's say you have a product, right?
57:27
You know you're making money. Are you going to continue making
57:32
the same product forever and continue making money and grow
57:36
your market share? No, right.
57:39
Everyone understand that basic right.
57:41
Once you capture the market, you have some kind of balance with
57:45
the competition, you're done. So what do you do?
57:49
You could continuously improve the product, right?
57:52
We call it continuous innovation.
57:54
So how do you do that discipline way?
57:57
You could listen to the loudest client, loudest customer and you
58:03
know this week you will get grease, but that's not the most
58:06
optimal way, right? You want to identify, OK, if, if
58:10
this product improvement actually is going to get me into
58:14
bigger market, allow me to capture bigger market share or
58:19
differentiate me from the competition or allow me to
58:22
charge more, OK, Then you need to evaluate that.
58:25
And then you need to create a discipline system of how do you
58:30
achieve that, right? Instead of just, oh, we're going
58:33
to make this improvement and introduce this feature just
58:36
randomly because someone came in needs to be part of a discipline
58:39
system. How do you implement that and
58:44
what kind of decisions along the way?
58:47
You asked me earlier, right? What, how do you make these
58:49
decisions? OK, well, what is enough
58:52
information from the customer, right?
58:53
You run, you run this decision, how much is it going to cost you
58:56
to have this improvement? Is it worth it?
58:59
So running all of these calculations and even doing some
59:03
testing, field testing, validation with their customer
59:06
base. So that's kind of one way,
59:08
right? You can just continuously
59:10
improve and, and make it better and year over year and, and just
59:17
chug along. It's a little bit more of a
59:19
lifestyle business in that way. Another way you can say, all
59:22
right, well, this is what the world looks like right now.
59:25
Well, in five to 10 years, it's going to look very different
59:28
because you recognize that there is, you know, say right now it's
59:31
AI, then it will be, you know, we'll be setting up
59:34
manufacturing on the moon, right?
59:37
Or some things like that. So it's going, there is going to
59:40
be a disruption. So if you can foresee some kind
59:43
of a disruption or prepare for it, what is coming up?
59:48
What are customers expecting? Before iPhones were introduced,
59:53
no one even imagined that you would be touching things on the
59:56
screen without having 10 tactical buttons.
1:00:00
That was revolution. How do you come up with a
1:00:01
product like that that people then adopt and use?
1:00:05
So identifying what the customers may want into the
1:00:11
future and that doesn't exist yet.
1:00:14
And then you're like, OK, this is this white space innovation
1:00:18
and I'm going to develop a product in that space.
1:00:23
So one of the projects I did it was.
1:00:25
It was actually great fun. An augmented reality space for
1:00:34
watching sports game or a concert, right?
1:00:40
A performance concert, right? So tickets are expensive, travel
1:00:44
is complicated, safety, mobility issues, right?
1:00:48
Well, how do? If you want to participate, but
1:00:50
you don't necessarily have the ability to be there in person,
1:00:53
what is the next best alternative?
1:00:56
Somewhere between watching it on TV and being there in person,
1:00:59
right? And excluding wearing a brick on
1:01:02
your forehead. Right, right.
1:01:04
Because that. Yeah, exactly.
1:01:05
So developing a system imagine like if you have you ever been
1:01:09
to karaoke bar? Karaoke bar.
1:01:12
Yeah, yeah. So same thing.
1:01:13
You go into the room, but it feels like you're in a stadium.
1:01:16
Yeah. All right.
1:01:17
So. So that wasn't a fun project
1:01:19
because this kind of technology currently doesn't exist.
1:01:23
So there's no goggles, there's no nothing, but you're if you
1:01:26
feel like you're there. Yeah, you're feeling, is it
1:01:28
holographic? Is it projection?
1:01:30
I don't know, right. But how do you even plan to
1:01:34
explore this? What kind of technology tests do
1:01:39
you decide to run to validate? Yes, customers want this.
1:01:45
Yeah, right. So you take a good analogy.
1:01:48
At the very beginning of that project, I remembered the
1:01:51
Metropolitan Opera in New York. They do live performance, the
1:01:58
transmissions to movie theaters, right?
1:02:01
And you can go and watch a Metropolitan Opera in a movie
1:02:04
theater. It's a very different experience
1:02:06
than sitting in an opera. I've watched boxing fights in
1:02:09
theaters before. Right.
1:02:10
So, so it's very different, but it's still better than sitting
1:02:14
at home, right? It gives you some additional
1:02:16
value. Maybe it's the behind the scenes
1:02:18
interviews, maybe it's the close-ups, right?
1:02:20
Maybe it's the commentary. So we did this.
1:02:24
So then you define, OK, this is where we want to go as white
1:02:28
space. It will take us, you know, 5-10
1:02:30
years to develop this technology.
1:02:33
But what can we do incrementally along the way to run little
1:02:37
experiments? What kind of pilot can we do?
1:02:39
So when we did this project, our pilot was, OK, let's do sports
1:02:44
events that are Little League, right?
1:02:48
Let's not go big. Let's do a little, right?
1:02:50
A Little League sports event that is accessible for people
1:02:56
with mobility difficulties. All right?
1:02:59
So like a grandma who is not going to attend the grandchild's
1:03:05
sports event because it's too complicated, too far, sitting on
1:03:10
the bleachers. In a retirement home.
1:03:13
Or somewhere, right? But having something like a
1:03:17
virtual reality where you can even interact with the other
1:03:23
audience members who are sitting there live, right?
1:03:26
So you imagine that that's going to be cool.
1:03:28
That's, that's cool, yeah. So that, so that's kind of how
1:03:32
do you imagine something like that you validate it in the
1:03:35
marketplace. You run a small pilot, it's not
1:03:37
exactly what you're trying to do, but also doesn't require a
1:03:40
huge investment. And as you get along these kind
1:03:43
of pilot steps, you also validate and you justify your
1:03:48
business like, yes, we will invest, you know, $100 million
1:03:53
into this development because that's as much as you know,
1:03:56
that's what it will take to get there to develop this system
1:03:59
over the next five years, right. So that's, that's the white
1:04:03
space. And then you could be like, OK,
1:04:08
and I'm an established business, you know, my internal innovation
1:04:12
team is great. We're doing this incremental
1:04:14
innovation. I have a little pocket of this
1:04:16
white space innovation, but that's kind of not enough.
1:04:18
OK, what do I do? Well, I can buy another startup
1:04:21
that already did that, right? So you go through the same
1:04:23
steps, you identify what what you need to, what you need to
1:04:30
add to your business in order to continue growing, right?
1:04:34
And then you identify your source and you buy them and you
1:04:36
absorb them or you have a different methodology to
1:04:39
continue growing that product, right?
1:04:41
So that's growth through acquisition and there could be
1:04:44
growth through licensing. So we're going to license this
1:04:47
patent and this step of technology, and we're going to
1:04:50
develop it in house with the full scaling from like 0 to lab
1:04:55
to bench testing to pilot to scaling up to production and
1:05:01
commercialization. So like when you have the right
1:05:05
balance of all of these, that's how you can keep growing.
1:05:09
Yeah. Thought about Elon Musk through
1:05:13
all this too because he's developed so many multi multi
1:05:16
multi billion dollar companies and very product focused and it
1:05:22
seems like he just nails it every single time.
1:05:28
I think there are people that would argue with that, but.
1:05:32
In terms of his businesses though, I mean.
1:05:34
I think even in terms of the businesses, yeah.
1:05:37
What is it X? Well, what's it called?
1:05:40
SpaceX. PayPal.
1:05:42
There is the Boring Company that didn't go anywhere yet.
1:05:46
Yeah, yeah, it's. Yeah.
1:05:47
Who knows, right? Who knows, right?
1:05:49
Well, I think you're going to have failures, right?
1:05:51
You have to. You're going to make.
1:05:52
Mistakes, but yeah, it's very product focused the.
1:05:56
Product focus is that's a very important like you need to
1:05:59
really focus on the product and how, again, how does it respond
1:06:04
to the customer needs. Yeah.
1:06:06
And foresee what are the customers going to need into the
1:06:09
future. If you just respond to today's
1:06:11
needs, you're not really innovating for the future.
1:06:16
So as you, is it weird having a service based business coming
1:06:20
from like more product based and working with product companies?
1:06:23
Is it unique for you now to have a business that is more service
1:06:27
deliverables and then what's your plan with the business?
1:06:30
Yeah. So I really enjoy supporting
1:06:35
others and seeing them grow. So that is super satisfying.
1:06:41
All right, If I'm working with a client and I can see them
1:06:44
transitioning from being a service based business to
1:06:47
actually doing manufacturing because they've developed the
1:06:50
technology to do that. I'm so happy about that.
1:06:53
He was like, and I helped them get there.
1:06:55
This is super cool. I from when I was an engineer,
1:07:00
right? I've done a bunch of technical
1:07:02
innovation on my own. You know, I have my patents, I
1:07:05
have my publications and I'm like, I'm done, right?
1:07:08
I'm my ideas. I've exhausted my ideas and I
1:07:13
don't have any more, but I can take someone else's idea and I
1:07:16
can help them grow up with it. Do you think you really don't
1:07:19
have any more or you think you just lost the passion to for it?
1:07:22
I don't see a reason to do that. It's hard.
1:07:25
It's hard coming up with ideas and starting from zero seems
1:07:28
like, yeah, it's very hard. So I the patterns that I
1:07:32
developed, like there was a real need.
1:07:33
I was in pain and I was like, I need to figure out how to do it
1:07:36
better. So it's like, OK, I'll just
1:07:38
figure it out. And I was like, we're filing a
1:07:40
patent on it. That's unexpected.
1:07:42
Cool. So if you are trying to invent
1:07:45
something for the purpose of doing a pad and I don't think
1:07:48
you'll actually do it, you need to really identify a problem
1:07:51
that you're trying to solve and maybe it's a unique solution.
1:07:55
Yeah, well. So what's going to happen with
1:07:56
the company that you were done earlier?
1:07:58
Which one the the creating the metaverse type thing that they
1:08:01
can be a part of? Was that an example?
1:08:04
It was an example. Yeah, yeah, it was a it.
1:08:07
It was meant to be pitched to the CEO of Sony.
1:08:12
Wow. Yeah, because they they're big.
1:08:14
Sony's has rights for cricket events in India.
1:08:23
So again, you're talking about sports events, right?
1:08:27
So a lot of viewership. So the market is huge and.
1:08:30
What do you want to do with your business?
1:08:32
Do you want to grow it to a point where it can kind of run
1:08:35
without you scale it? Do you want to keep it more of
1:08:37
lifestyle? It's you and maybe one or two
1:08:39
other people. Yeah.
1:08:41
So right now I'm the business, right?
1:08:45
I'm the brand, but that is not my goal is to where to be.
1:08:48
I do have a team that I rely on when projects require more than
1:08:53
I can give. And it would be very nice if it
1:08:57
just kept chugging along and with occasional touch points.
1:09:01
I don't want to abandon it, but I think that would be super
1:09:04
nice. Where would you spend your time
1:09:05
as a founder if the supply side was met?
1:09:10
If when you can bring something in your team could take care of.
1:09:13
It yeah, I would prospect more. Yeah, you do more stuff like
1:09:16
this. Right, Yeah, yeah, I, I love
1:09:18
business development and prospecting.
1:09:20
It's identifying problems, finding the solution.
1:09:23
Yeah, that really speaks to me. And then again watching this at
1:09:27
the the the solution actually change the client's business and
1:09:33
helping them grow. Yeah, for sure would have been
1:09:36
the two maybe best prospecting channels for you or what would
1:09:40
be some of the ones that you'd want to focus on if you could
1:09:42
spend all your time on that? Say that again.
1:09:45
Would be the top 2 prospecting channels?
1:09:47
Like how do you generate leads, customers, or if you had more
1:09:50
time, what would you want to do that you're not now?
1:09:53
So right now, right, I'm six months in, I'm really just
1:09:59
working on existing relationships, right?
1:10:01
All right, so. Relationships.
1:10:02
All right, exactly. The existing relationships, at
1:10:06
some point I will exhaust my existing relationships, right?
1:10:09
So then what's next, right. So there needs to be and I'm
1:10:13
already working on expanding that pipeline to have additional
1:10:18
relationships developed. Yes, right, I'm here.
1:10:23
Yeah, right to you'll. Get a lot of great content from
1:10:26
this, yeah? And have people you know, know
1:10:31
me, know my working style and value what I can bring to the
1:10:35
business, which which is a little bit difficult to just
1:10:38
advertise because it's very custom to what they need is.
1:10:42
So that's still fine tuning that point.
1:10:45
It's like, OK, what does it mean?
1:10:46
But they all have similar problems and pain points.
1:10:49
And right without going too each, if you were going to do a
1:10:52
podcast, what do you think you'd do it around?
1:10:56
If I were to do. Obviously something that would
1:10:58
help grow the business, but. Like what would?
1:10:59
You would it be like a go to market podcast or it would be
1:11:01
like product development innovation?
1:11:03
I think I would very much like to explore more the topic of
1:11:07
innovation, especially the these hard tech innovation and how do
1:11:12
you build these discipline systems and structures so that
1:11:17
when you are going after a project, you have decision
1:11:22
points that tell you, yes, I'm moving forward, right.
1:11:24
This knowledge is it's a little bit of an art on a science and
1:11:29
there is a lot of misunderstanding that I see that
1:11:33
people just don't have like, Oh, well, you know, like I gave the
1:11:36
example, we just respond to the customer who is loud, right.
1:11:41
So I would like to talk more about innovation and the product
1:11:46
development part. So who would want to talk about
1:11:50
that? That's a bigger question, right?
1:11:52
Who would I invite? Was that your next question?
1:11:54
Oh. Could be, yeah.
1:11:56
I mean, well, I think it'd be the leaders in innovation be
1:11:58
the, wouldn't it be the people that you usually work with,
1:12:00
right? That could be, yeah, that could
1:12:03
be, although I can't see how that would convert to more
1:12:05
clients so. Are you joking now?
1:12:09
Are you messing with me now? Well, if I'm already talking to
1:12:13
the leader in innovation, right, they already have it figured
1:12:16
out. Well then, well, you.
1:12:18
Then what value do I bring to that?
1:12:20
Well, it's got to be a leader that needs help with the
1:12:22
innovation or go to market strategy or whatever.
1:12:25
But they would never admit that on the podcast.
1:12:27
Well, yeah, you wouldn't talk to them about their problems on the
1:12:29
podcast. Yeah, just like I don't talk to
1:12:31
people about their marketing problems on the vlog.
1:12:32
I'm like, your website sucks, your LinkedIn content is
1:12:34
terrible. You have no brand.
1:12:36
You could be generating way more customers, but you're not.
1:12:38
Cuz I should be posting more on LinkedIn.
1:12:41
Yes, it takes a lot of mental effort and mindset to actually
1:12:45
generate the content and think ahead.
1:12:47
OK? This is the idea that I want to
1:12:49
develop. This is how I want to develop it
1:12:51
with all the AI agents, right? You still need to think about
1:12:54
that for sure. This is the topic that I want to
1:12:56
explore. This is how I want to say it.
1:12:58
Yeah. And this is the idea that I want
1:13:01
to convey to the greater masses so that they come back to me and
1:13:05
say, hey, tell me more. Totally.
1:13:07
And part of that again is if you were to record some of those
1:13:09
calls, you have one sided, you don't get the client of the call
1:13:11
so you can protect their privacy, but of you coaching
1:13:14
them through something, right and then we do that all the
1:13:16
time. But anyways.
1:13:18
Yeah, I would actually love to do that because there are some
1:13:21
aspects of theory, so to speak, or basic information that I
1:13:25
share over and over and over again.
1:13:27
I was like, can I just put it on replay and go get myself coffee
1:13:30
or? Yeah, and make good examples.
1:13:32
There are gonna be people listening to this show that this
1:13:34
episode that go wow, we should bring her in.
1:13:36
We need something like that, right.
1:13:38
Because you're able to. You said you said smart things.
1:13:40
You know, you said before the podcast went live, I gotta say
1:13:42
smart things. You said some smart things.
1:13:45
So I appreciate you being here, Alina.
1:13:47
Thank you for the the good conversation.
1:13:49
I appreciate you being willing to challenge me on some things
1:13:52
and go through my business in particular, and hopefully you
1:13:54
all took some things away. Where can people find you,
1:13:57
connect with you, learn more about what you do?
1:13:59
LinkedIn is great. So look me up on LinkedIn.
1:14:04
I do have a website, yeah. So as enteredconsulting.com,
1:14:08
they can also find me at innovation to page.
1:14:10
I work out of innovation to page.
1:14:12
Yeah, I'll be on one of the events coming soon.
1:14:15
It's. A cool place, that.
1:14:16
Crew Yeah, it's a cool place. Very cool.
1:14:18
Well, thanks again for being on the show.
1:14:19
Thank you guys for watching and we'll see you on the next one.