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Capturing Carbon - The Basics of Carbon Capture and Storage · PlanetGeo: The Geology Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Planet Geo, the podcast where we talk about how recording planet, how it works, and why it matters to you.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Chris, yeah.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Stop looking at your massive monitor screen.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Look at me, man.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Look at me.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I I just making sure everything is okay.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: NASA is fine.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're good to go.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: The Artemis mission's about to launch.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're running the rover on Mars on one screen and you're you know launching rockets on the other.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm identifying rocks on the surface of Mars as we speak.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of rocks, I just had an emergency.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I had to leave a couple minutes ago.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what was going on in the in the background there?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in my basement, I have a fireplace and I have a rock wall that I I built myself with my own like really good specimens that I've collected from all over the country.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so Jenny comes in and says, Chris, um, a rock just fell off the fireplace.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh no.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I bolted up, ran into the room.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's okay.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of my rocks has a lot of sulfide minerals in it, like pyrite, and that one, a piece of it crumbled a little bit and and fell off.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really not that big of a deal.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: But that would have been like a massive nightmare for me.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the structural integrity of the wall is still there.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's still it's gonna hold.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: The wall is okay.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: The wall is okay.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: It still looks great.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: That would be devastating if that rock wall.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's a piece of this story that Jenny didn't tell me though.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: She was down here cleaning and vacuuming and all that kind of stuff, and I know she was vacuuming the rock and knocked a piece off.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's gotta be what happened.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't just like fall.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, yes, right.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, this doesn't just happen.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Jenny's vacuuming it with the little wand, right?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: With the little sweeper wand on it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Crisis averted.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, today, Jesse, let's do we want to do intros or are we just gonna jump right in?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to read?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why not?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're Chris Bullheis, my former high school teacher, Earth Science teacher extraordinaire from the great state of Michigan.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I took a bunch of different classes from you, and you taught me the basics of geoscience and geology.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Got me into it, actually, too.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you are Dr.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Jesse Rymank, you're one of my former students, as you just said.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: You went to Hope College right here in West Michigan and got your bachelor's degree in geology.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then you went to the University of Alberta, got your PhD, and you're now working as a professor at Penn State University in the geoscience department, which is awesome because that's one of the best geoscience departments in the country.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great place to work.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And today we are going to talk about carbon capture and carbon storage, which is a hot topic.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's hotly researched.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the acronym that you might read is CCS, carbon capture and storage.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what that stands for, carbon capture and carbon storage, CCS.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there is so much geoscience knowledge being poured into this problem of climate change, and it's all being driven by CO2.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so what we're really talking about is carbon dioxide capture and storage, which you know, we we shorten it to carbon capture and storage.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: But Chris, we've covered this before.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about the greenhouse effect, we've covered some basics about the greenhouse effect.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was a long time ago.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was probably two years ago, one of our earlier episodes.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to primer into why CO2 matters or a deep dive into why CO2 matters, you can go back to that episode, and we'll put a link to that in the show notes here.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But this, I think, is more like a solutions-based thing.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about this episode?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a fair description?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think we need to talk about the difference between carbon capture and carbon storage.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Those are two different things, and we're going to get into that, and we're going to talk about some potential solutions to the research that's currently going on, startup companies, etc.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But we're also, though, going to do a little bit with how that carbon cycle works, just a little bit, and why carbon dioxide is the gas that is of primary concern.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you mentioned startups.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many startup companies, really exciting technologies being leveraged into this carbon capture and storage space.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they, from my perspective, I'm interested in this because they are hiring like mad.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of actually industry focus and interest in this space.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a huge uh future employment sector for people with geoscience knowledge, and geoscientists will be able to work in these communities.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a big industry.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually there's a market here for carbon capture and storage, and we're going to touch on that briefly.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: You said that you are really interested in this.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: What is what does that mean?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking at leaving the uh academic world and going to work for industry?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what just happened here?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you never know what the paychecks might be, but no, uh no, it's more just like um, you know, to provide students with a clear direction of where the industry is going.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I have some responsibility to know where the geoscience industry is now and is going in the future to provide students with you know perspectives on that.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of why I'm interested.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we're hoping to interview some people from these startup companies that are actually trying to increase the the efficiency of carbon capture and storage technologies in the near future.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So stay tuned to that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to that for sure.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Jesse, let's go ahead and get into this.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We need to differentiate the terms.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference between carbon capture and carbon storage?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start right now, Jesse, with what is carbon capture?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly as the name implies.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, carbon means CO2 in this instance.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so CO2 is a molecule in the air, but it's really, really low concentrations.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: The concentration is really important, Chris.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But what is it right now?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I can't, I think I put in 400, it's somewhere around there right now.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right now we are a little bit over 415 parts per million concentration in the atmosphere.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to go back a second because when I first started my teaching career 25 years ago, carbon dioxide levels were a little under 350 parts per million.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's a huge increase in what seems to be a very short amount of time, going from 350 to approaching 420 parts per million in about 25 years.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a little scary.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is a lot, and so I think we need to kind of level something on what these concentrations actually mean because the concentration matters.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a huge difference between 350 and 415, exactly as you said, Chris.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But that's still the concentration is not high, and that comes into this carbon capture conversation.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is why we have to capture carbon, is because it is such low concentration.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's football season here at Penn State.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Our football stadium is very large.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, you haven't come to a game yet.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually not been to a game either.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, you I have words for you.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: You don't tell me I haven't come to a game.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't been invited to a game yet.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're a real piece of work.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody has, unfortunately.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am going in, let's see, when will this come out?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be going soon.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh with my family, my in-laws are coming, my parents are coming, we're gonna have uh, you know, a big to-do during the Ohio State game.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, but the stadium.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we gotta go to the big one, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: The stadium here seats about 120,000 people.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you imagine that stadium, 120,000, the big house at University of Michigan is about the same number.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Penn State and Michigan State go back and forth, adding a couple seats to compete to see who has the biggest stadium.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it's in that 120,000-ish number.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're at that game, you picture an entirely packed football stadium, 415 parts per million means out of a million molecules, 415 of them will be carbon dioxide.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: If we would convert that into people at a football game of 120,000 people, the number is 50.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So 415 parts per million is 50 people out of 120,000.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Which means if you're watching a game on TV and you know 50 people that are at the game and they're seated kind of randomly throughout the stadium, you would have to watch most of the game probably to find one of them, I would think, right, Chris?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're watching the stands and trying to see somebody you know, it's gonna take you a while.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a difficult thing.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, well done, Jesse.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love the analogy.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a while to come up with.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So to your point, though, that being in such a low concentration, but such an important gas, that we need to reduce that concentration back down to where it was, you know, 25 years ago and even below that, actually.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do we do like that's a tough thing?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have what you're saying then is we have to filter through all of the other millions of molecules to get those 415.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to do that at you know, we have to do that at scale.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the issue.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have to do this at scale.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is exactly the the issue here is we have to filter through a lot of air to get all of those CO2 molecules and separate a bunch of them out.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to get all of them, but we have to take out a bunch of them, a huge fraction of them.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the way to think about this is we're trying to make chemistry happen faster.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to speed up this process or drive this reaction faster.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a few reactions that happen, which we're gonna get into in a little bit here, but we just have to speed things up.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, Chris, let me try out another little analogy on here on you.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this this might not be as good.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, keep me in line here.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: But let's say I'm at the game and I know 50 people there, and you know, there's so many people's cell phone towers don't work, so I can't communicate with them by cell phone, and I want to go for a beer with 10 of them after the game.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, they're all distributed randomly throughout the crowd.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta go around and try and find 10 of my friends to get them and aggregate them and say, Oh, we're gonna meet at the north gate, we're gonna go for beer.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna take me a long, long ass time to go through and find 10 people, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's gonna take a while, and that's the reaction.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's sort of like running into somebody, shaking their hand and saying, Hey, meet me at the north gate at a certain time, we're gonna go for a beer afterwards.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a reaction.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's like this carbon, we're grabbing a carbon molecule, a CO2 molecule, and it happens really slowly when you have low concentration.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you watched a game at your house and you invited 50 people over to watch the game at your house, you'd be able to easily find 10 people to go for a beer afterwards with you, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you get these things in more concentration, you can drive the reactions more efficiently and faster.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well done.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not as good as the other one, I don't think.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: But fair enough.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of got lost in the story about grabbing 10 friends to go for a beer afterwards.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I you you lost me with that.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I started thinking about, well, yeah, but that's a worthy effort right there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's worth the work.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take this opportunity though to talk a little bit about this because it's uh so interesting to me that such a low concentration gas, 450 parts per million, can be so important.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: What exactly is going on?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So a quick primer, short wavelength infrared radiation, visible light coming in from the sun passes right through these greenhouse gases.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Carbon dioxide is one of several greenhouse gases, but it's the most important.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: It passes right through them.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then what happens when this radiation reaches the surface?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it is absorbed at the surface of the earth.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what the earth does then is re-radiate this energy, but it's a longer wavelength.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that visible light and short wavelength infrared radiation now is longer wavelength infrared.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the whole thing, because that longer wavelength infrared radiation, which is heat, uh, cannot pass through these greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how the greenhouse effect works.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good thing because that's what enables us to live on this planet, right?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But if we keep on adding carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, then we still let that radiation in, but we'd let less of it out, and that's how climate change happens then.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why this is so important, but yet it's amazing, isn't it, that we're talking about a gas that is so little concentration, 415 parts per million.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's really an amazing, uh, amazing thing.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so to decrease this effect, we want to decrease this sort of blanketing effect that you're describing with the different wavelengths of radiation.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get CO2 out of the atmosphere and store it somewhere.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is carbon capture is taking carbon from the atmosphere and concentrating it somewhere so that we can store it more efficiently.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not 415 parts per million, not 50 people out of 120,000 at the football game, but 50 people out of a hundred people or something like that, where it's easier to filter through and find my friends.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we're talking about helping and speeding up what already happens in nature.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is that is the key part, Chris.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: That is an amazingly well-phrased point, right there.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a natural reaction?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is where a lot of confusion and misconceptions come in.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to highlight this is a great point.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because on Earth, the oceans do this for free.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: They soak up carbon dioxide, atmospheric carbon dioxide, and it gets dissolved like a kind of a sponge, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: It soaks up this carbon dioxide.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that carbon dioxide then is turned into two things chemically.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need to get into the chemistry on this really, but it get it turns it into carbonic acid, which is H2CO3, and it turns it also into bicarbonate, which is HCO3.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: The bottom line is that this carbonic acid, which is a weak acid, adds to what's called ocean acidification.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: It takes CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it into the ocean.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna flip it to you a second.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right, we have this carbon dioxide that's dissolved in the water now.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's the natural step that occurs then after this?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is getting us to the carbon storage part, really.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're moving now from carbon capture, just concentrating CO2 to the carbon storage.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: What happens to it?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we put it?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in nature, this happens naturally all the time.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: The bicarbonate or the dissolved CO2 in the ocean reacts with other cations.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You've used cations before, Chris, they're positively charged.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's I used that in class the other day.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's positive.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Positive because they're cowardices.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're saying positive.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's positive.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Positive.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Positive.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you can't say say paw.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Pa.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Pa.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, say say positive.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Positive.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's correct.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've been saying.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Positive.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's that is not what you're saying.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're cat ions, so they're positively charged.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're positively charged ions.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: But things like calcium and magnesium conveniently and naturally bond with CO2, dissolved in the ocean, which is becomes CO3, and form minerals, calcite, dolomite, or magnesite.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's CaCO3, CAMGCO3, or MGCO3.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: These are naturally occurring minerals that are formed both by biological activities, both by creatures making their houses, making shells, and abiotically just by precipitation from an ocean that has a lot of calcium, magnesium, and CO3 dissolved in it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And those will bond together and form these minerals.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let me interrupt a second real quick.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if water, if salt water, ocean water, evaporates and it gets super warm, once it gets saturated with these like calcium carbonates and magnesium carbonates like calcite and dolomite, once it's saturated, it will begin to lay down these rocks just due to like high rates of evaporation and warm temperatures and things like that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like if you took a glass full of salt water and you just set the glass on a kitchen counter and just leave it there for a month.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: You come back and the water's all gone, but now your glass is crusted with salt.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a way that carbon can be removed naturally from the oceans as well.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we form rocks.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: These are all parts of very common, very prevalent rocks that Chris, you really like to use to uh, you know, get rid of your acid reflux.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: You just eat some limestone, you crush up some limestone, which is calcite.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So limestone has these dolostone, has these minerals in them.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Loads of rocks have these minerals, these CO3-bearing minerals in them, which is basically carbon dioxide.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so this happens all the time on Earth.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: But that transition, taking CO2 from the atmosphere, putting it in the ocean, then eventually making minerals with it that end up as rocks, that's part of what we call the long-term carbon cycle on Earth.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or, Chris, what's the other way?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: The slow carbon cycle, I guess, is sometimes called.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this takes a long time to do.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like atmospheric CO2 can go up a lot, like it's doing today due to fossil fuel emissions.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: It can go up a lot, and it takes a long time for the ocean and the minerals to form to balance that out.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Way too long to solve our climate change problems.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a natural process.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to kind of summarize here.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: All the carbon storage is doing is trying to speed up this very natural reaction, which is taking CO2 out of the atmosphere and bonding it, ultimately bonding it with calcium or magnesium into a mineral phase, which is then stable for a long-term carbon cycle.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's stable for a long, long time in that phase.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, do we want to transition then here?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: We I think we differentiated pretty well the difference between carbon capture and then carbon storage, where rocks and minerals get deposited on the ocean floor.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's taken out of the ocean and stored for very long periods of time.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: How can we do this and help speed up the process of capturing carbon and then storing it?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: We have to do both.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So what's let's transition into that?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do that?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of options out there because remember, we have to do two things carbon capture and carbon storage.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Some companies and some startups and some research initiatives are doing just the carbon capture, just concentrating.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Some are focusing just on carbon storage, and some are doing both at the same time, or trying to do both at the same time.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so many different options here, Chris.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really confusing space to sort of research and look at because there's loads of different potential paths forward.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess we kind of have to think about why.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why are there so many options?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: We've described this kind of relatively simple thing in the last, you know, 15 minutes or 20 minutes here.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so complicated?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Why are there so many options?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, part of it is because just the of the natural geology that we're dealing with here, there are so many unstable minerals on the surface that contain the necessary cations of magnesium and calcium.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, the most common rock on the planet is basalt.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's what covers 99% of the ocean floor, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, basalt has unstable minerals in it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you think about Bowen's reaction series again, this goes back to an episode we did a long time ago.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Basalt is loaded with minerals that form at high temperature.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And those high temperature minerals, but minerals are most stable when they exist in the environment in which they formed.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So because they form at such high temperature, they are a long ways away, they're further away from the conditions in which they exist at at the surface now.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not stable.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: They break down easier.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have that instability.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Another really common mineral, olivine.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Olivine has loads of magnesium in it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Pyrixine has lots of calcium in it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the both of these minerals break down really easily at the surface.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: They release calcium, they release magnesium, which then bonds with the bicarbonate and it locks up CO2 for a long, long time.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, both of these rock types, we can categorize them as mafic and ultramafic if you're familiar with those terms.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Mafic is the oceanic crust, it's black rock, it's really dark colored, basalt is the most common one.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ultramafic is what's called peridotite.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's you know has a lot of olivine in it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: It often looks green.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would be shocked if many people have ever seen peridotite out there in the field because it weathers away so quickly.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of it on the surface.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is the mantle rock, and so there's not a lot of it exposed on the surface, and when it does, it goes quick.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Mafic means rich in iron and magnesium, so ultramafic is mafic on steroids, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to say though that uh up in the upper peninsula in Marquette in Prescile Park, there is loads of peritotite exposed at the surface, and it's just a crumbly mess.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's breaking down, yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's horrible.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing is uh exposed near Baltimore, around um Baltimore in Maryland, around eastern Pennsylvania where I live.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what this does is it turns into serpentinite, which is a rock that is the weathered product of peritotite, and people use this for building stones.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you can get countertops made of it.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's really beautiful rock.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's all weathered, it's all shot full of weathered stuff, and a lot of that is carbon bearing minerals because CO2 has gone into those reactions.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And let me just summarize.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: You want to interrupt me now?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let me interrupt you a second.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you remember us collecting CO2?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Serpentinite when we went to Maine and I actually don't New York and New Jersey.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we collected some serpentinite.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Where was that?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: In New Jersey.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, plus, serpentinite is one of the coolest names for a rock that exists out there.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's just fun to say.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Serpentinite.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fun.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a spectacularly beautiful rock.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, it's a stunning rock.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the minerals in it, when you take olivine, which is iron, magnesium, and silica and oxygen, that's all olivine is, it breaks down.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: You get calcium and magnesium that's kind of free-floating.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can form calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Magnesium carbonate is magnesite, and that is a very common mineral in serpentinite.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you take olivine, you put it at the surface, and it releases magnesium.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: It draws down CO2 naturally.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: So back to the carbon.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're getting windy here.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let me let me read, I gotta redirect you here.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like um get me out of the weeds.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love serpentinite way too much.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm rambling on.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Jesse, let's get into this then.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: How can we speed up the process of both carbon capture and carbon storage?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm gonna keep you out of the weeds.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's my job.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: But what's how do we do this?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's many options.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just think about capture first.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of different options.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, most of them have to do with chemistry, just atmospheric chemistry, giant fans that suck in atmospheric air and screens that kind of filter out the CO2, and you get a concentrated CO2 version.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: We can put these at the top of smokestacks that concentrate the CO2.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: The smokestack is already concentrating CO2.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you had a natural gas-fired power plant, there's CO2 and high concentration going into the atmosphere there.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Capture it at the source, it makes it easier.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there's many ways to potentially do the capture side.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: When we think about the storage side, if you have concentrated CO2 in a liquefied form, perhaps, you can inject it underground into Hold on, let me interject.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, how would you get carbon dioxide in a liquefied form?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: That would have to be then carbon dioxide that's just highly, highly pressurized, correct?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: You you pressure it, you cool it down typically, and that's the way to store really concentrated CO2 in a more space efficient manner is to make it a liquid.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's right.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I want to also interrupt something again that I think a lot of people, my my students particularly, they don't view carbon dioxide as something that like, well, if you can capture it, first of all, what does that look like?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And second of all, you can just put it somewhere, right?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: But people don't understand that carbon dioxide in these kinds of volumes has a ton of mass to it and it takes up a lot of space, right?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't think of gases that way typically, but it's true.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you took a let's say a pound of coal, which a lot of you know power plants burn coal to produce electricity, if you took a pound of coal, which is almost all carbon, and you burn it, that one pound of coal combines with oxygen, O2 in the air, to produce CO2.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you captured all of that gas in a balloon somehow, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: A like a large rubber balloon, the gas inside the balloon would weigh 2.7-ish pounds.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you're, I mean, you know, like that's now something that you can quantify and grab onto.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't think of it that way.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: That wait a minute, a gas, you can't see it, you know, it's really nothing.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: But nah, it is.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: It has mass and it takes up a lot of space.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're talking about removing out of the atmosphere.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what if you capture it?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now you got to do something with it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly where we get to the sort of building rocks.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: What we want to do is take that concentrated CO2 and build minerals and then build rocks with it.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing to do is you can inject it underground, usually into like old oil and gas wells, and you can hope that the reaction chemistry happens, that that chemistry of taking calcium or magnesium and bonding with that CO2 you've injected down there, you can hope that those minerals start to form.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they do, and sometimes you can keep CO2 down there for a long time.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not existing in the liquid or the gas state, though.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to build minerals with it.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's the goal.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this injection thing is kind of controversial, right?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because the some people argue whether or not it's safe.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: What would make it unsafe?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why is this a part of the discussion?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a couple different ways to make it unsafe.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's basically if the CO2 does not bond with the things to make minerals, if it doesn't bond with calcium or magnesium to make minerals, then it could be dissolved in the groundwater and it could end up coming back up to the atmosphere.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it might not be a long-term solution to putting carbon somewhere.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: We want to be really sure that it's putting the carbon into a stable mineral phase.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's building rocks with it that are stable for a very, very long time.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I think the technology is pretty good, but you're right, it's controversial.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are ways to do it well and there are ways to not do it well by injecting CO2, concentrated CO2, down into the ground somewhere.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing we can do is we can drive mineral reactions.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there are certain startup companies that are trying to do both the carbon capture and the carbon storage at the same time.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they're doing things like we've talked about this olivine thing, this olivine reaction that happens.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: They would take crushed up olivine and just spread it out on the surface, basically, and your carbon and magnesium get released by the weathering product, and then they bond with CO2 and they form magnesite or calcite, and there you go.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: You've made your minerals that you're interested in.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if you Yeah, I'm gonna interrupt you here a second, Jesse.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: You said that it's ground up uh pyrixene and olivine.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why that's important is because it's a surface area issue.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let me give you an analogy.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you um want to burn a big log, you throw a big log on a fire, it doesn't burn well, right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if you take that log and split it up into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller pieces, and then throw that into the fire, it's gonna burn much faster because you're exposing all that wood to the air, to you know, it's a surface area to volume kind of ratio thing going on.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same thing.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you take olivine and ground it up, you're exposing much more of the olivine to the conditions and allowing that reaction then to proceed at a much faster rate.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that the research on this is really amazing.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're they're grounding olivine up to the same size grains, and they're injecting these liquids through it, and they're measuring the permeability at which these liquids are flowing through the olivine and how the permeability changes as the reactions proceed.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: But what they're finding, I thought this was so cool.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're finding that as these reactions proceed, the salts grow, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they crack up the rock even further, which keeps the permeability flowing.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's a unbelievable.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really cool.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Really cool.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's again in this same space of like spreading olivine out on the surface or spreading ultramafic rock on the surface, there's a bunch of different ways to do this.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some people want to put them in wetland areas or in the ocean to actually do that same chemistry that we talked about, CO2 into the ocean water, then it makes a rock.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas some people are proposing doing this on the surface and driving this reaction via the rainwater or just reaction with the air.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's concentrated, it's easy to store, and then you can take those minerals and you can either put them somewhere or take out the CO2 and counts, then you have concentrated CO2 and drive the reaction again.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a bunch of different ways to do it.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Those are just two examples of the dozens that are out there of ways to actually naturally do carbon capture and storage at the same time.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question for you, and I don't know, you might not know the answer to this.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: This ground up olivine and pyroxine that then has been put through this these reactions, right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make good soil?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the answer to that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess the question, Chris, here, that is maybe a misconception that a lot of people have is why are there startup companies doing this?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer is a little bit obvious once you think about it.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if anybody's booked a plane ticket recently, but when you book a plane ticket on most of the major airlines, you can click a button at the bottom that says, oh, give four dollars or ten bucks to offset my carbon emissions.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's a market right there for drawing down CO2.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's companies that are on the other side of those transactions that are saying, I will sell United Airlines a carbon credit for a certain amount of dollars.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm gonna do is I'm going to either not cut down trees or I'm going to actually physically store CO2, pull it out of the atmosphere, and store it in minerals.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make minerals with CO2, and that's their market.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this is actually a huge market and a very big and probably growing industry here.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was interesting that, you know, company, I think it was Heirloom that is a part of Breakthrough Energy's program, which is, if you go back to our interview with Ashley Grosh, what an amazing program.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then to come across this as we're getting ready for this, it was really cool to see that, you know, because their benchmark is a pretty high benchmark.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have to prove that you can remove 1% of the carbon that is annually put into the atmosphere.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big benchmark to be.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge one.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: What is that number, Chris?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the the number that you're trying to meet there with?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think it's 50 million tons of yeah, 50 million tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the the market for this CO2 varies widely.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a startup company, you say I'm gonna draw down CO2 in some way, who am I gonna charge?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I gonna get as a client to do that?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: The market varies widely.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these companies, they're in the thousands of dollars per ton of CO2 and they're getting lower, but it's a bit really sort of unstable market, but it's a huge one because we put a ton of CO2 into the air as humans that eventually, in some way, shape, or form, we're gonna have to draw down.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the way it is.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we need to decrease the amount we put into the atmosphere for sure, but we're gonna have to start probably drawing it down as well.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why there's this enterprise around carbon capture and storage and a big conversation around it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: You said exactly what I was gonna say too.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: That the solution to this problem is so multifaceted.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just reducing carbon emissions, it's also trying to figure out how to take the carbon that's in the atmosphere and remove it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is it's so complicated, but yet so fascinating.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you're right.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: You you alluded to this at the beginning of the episode that the opportunities for geoscientists now coming up, I think there are going to be jobs that you and I have not even thought about in the future.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um what an exciting market.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen jobs advertised for some of these companies and doing research for this that I've never heard of, right?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and we have not necessarily prepared students explicitly for this market.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're interested in geosciences, this is a potential massive opportunity, I think.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's you're right, because we're putting about 40 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every single year.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a huge market.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: A huge market.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these companies come out of academia.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know, these are people who did their PhD looking at ultramafic rock chemistry and you know, spun it off into a startup, into an actual company that I think has some future to it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a whole bunch of these, and a lot of the research comes out of academia, masters, PhD students who who go off and and do these great, amazing things.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So they're exactly Chris, and I think Ashley Grosh said this as well.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Really, there's a lot of opportunity here.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is a massive opportunity, which is really fun.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're sitting there listening to this podcast and you're wondering, hmm, should I go get my degree in geoscience?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: The answer to that is unequivocally yes.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Go get your degree because you're gonna end up doing something maybe that you never no one has ever thought of yet, anyway.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you have an excuse to just travel the world and see really cool things because hey, I'm a geologist and that's what we do.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And look at Serpentinaire because Serpentinite's so pretty.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, okay, Chris.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: This was uh this was a good one.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Carbon capture and storage the basics.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to Jesse, before we leave, I just want to go back and and review a second.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: How can we help carbon capture reactions happen faster?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And how can we help carbon storage happen faster?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, carbon capture is concentrating.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's taking 415 parts per million CO2 molecules and increasing those in some way with fans, with reaction chemistry, capturing at smokestacks.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: You need to increase the concentration because then it's easier to store it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's easier to drive the reactions to make minerals.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the carbon storage comes in when we take CO2 and drive it through usually some bicarbonate ion or carbonic acid, and we bond it with calcium, magnesium, sometimes iron, sodium, and make minerals.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually making minerals.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the carbon capture is concentrating, the carbon storage is building minerals and rocks with it.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then once we build those minerals and rocks, we got to do something with them.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: But very exciting, lots of possibilities, and very exciting.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no kidding.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is exciting.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Chris, that's a wrap.
• 35:49
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• 35:50
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• 35:58
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• 36:01
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• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate all the support we've gotten so far.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Help us uh keep going here.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the most important things that we ask is just please share our podcast with somebody that you think might like it, or somebody that you think might not like it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: You just share it.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: You might not like it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell people about it.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Chris.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, take care, man.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.