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Developed to Serve · The Worship and Leadership Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, what's going on, everybody, and welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Elmer Cagnes Jr., and I'm here with my man, Willie C.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Simpson.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: What is up, Elmer?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, man?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be here today, man.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm glad you're excited.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, man, listen, I have a quick thought for you, bro.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's up?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: God doesn't develop you so that you'll be impressive.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: He develops you so that you can pick up the towel and refuse to put it down.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great thought.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was just marinating on that just randomly.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, just talking through, you know, being developed.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Being developed as a leader, being developed as a servant.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and and what that looks like.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And why some people do not last through the development process.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what God is doing in the development process, why he's doing it, and who he's doing it for.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that talk.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, today we're talking about being developed to serve.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: To serve.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I I love that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love that thought.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, it's what we want to talk about today.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's important because in whatever area of life you find yourself in, from serving your family, your spouse, at work, in church, in ministry, people, we we don't just do things for ourselves.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: We get the privilege to do things for other people.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that process in itself can end up making you look totally different.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like the way your development process looks like.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're either successful or you're not.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and even defining what success looks like for a person who serves others is important because a lot of times people could feel like, oh, I'm out to accomplish my goal, and this is what I've dreamed about, and this is the school I'm gonna go to, and this is my career.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you become so self-focused, and I would say we we actually talked about this at sermon prep as we're in chapter six or in Matthew, how we could easily be driven by ambition, but it could come across as greed to other people.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, in the same way, when we're serving others, if the development process doesn't develop the right things, if it develops the drive but not the character in the person, all of a sudden you could mean well for to help people and serve them, but the only thing people see on the other end is somebody, somebody that's just like trying to accomplish their own things.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's so good.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that is you and you know, I think that's like the trap of of serving, is that it is so easy for for pride and like like the pride of the eyes, like the lust of the eyes, that the pride of life for that to creep in, even in like doing good for others, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Where if you're not careful, you'll find yourself like reaching for the affirmation on the that the the pats on the back, the attaboys.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And transparently, um, I mean, you know, I've confessed that to you, like that's something I struggle with, man.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm not careful, like it'll leak in that desire to you know to get the affirmation, to get the praise, uh, to get the acknowledgement.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Where now I'm not serving to bless others, but I'm serving really to enlarge myself.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I I can't help but think of being a kid and on the playground and being like, all right, two other kids get to be team captains and and they don't pick you.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're like, What's up, man?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I picked you.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how could you do me like that, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then so but you you picked them to be on your team because you wanted to win.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then they don't pick you, and you're like, oh, okay.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I I think you might have touched the nerve of some of our our our community out there.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Was y'all picked last out there on the playground?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all was doing tug of war, y'all was playing tag, and you was like, hey, don't get Billy, man.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: He you know, he got a club foot, so he got a club foot.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And as fast as everybody.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: He got corn in his feet.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he got he got bunions, man.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Bunions are like dodgeballs.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: But praise the Lord.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, the the perfect servant is Jesus.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like he's the model, right, for what it means to serve.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so this anchor text today, which I'm really excited about because just all the other stuff we're gonna talk about today, is it's John 13, John chapter 13.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And setting the scene here, starting at verse 3, setting the scene, this is uh the Passover feast, it's the the Lord's Supper, and this is right before Jesus is going to be betrayed, literally, uh, into the hand of the enemy um before he is crucified.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so here he is setting the scene, he's he's with all of his disciples, he's with the 12, he's hanging out with them and they're they're eating dinner.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I love verse three.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Jesus knew that the Father had given him authority over everything and that he had come from God and would return to God.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So Jesus knew, hey, his time is up on the earth because he's about to fulfill his assignment, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Verse 4, so he got up from the table, took off his robe, wrapped the towel around his waist, and poured water into a basin.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Then he began to wash the disciples' feet, drying them with the towel he had around them.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what is so phenomenal about this is that scripture says that Jesus knew who was going to betray him.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like he knows exactly who he is serving, he knows who he's about to do this for.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Peter, James, John, and crew, and Judas Iscariot, the one who ultimately betrays him into the hands of the Jewish leaders.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he stops and he stoops down and he does what is considered in that time and in that in that day, not just one of the most humble, but one of the most humiliating tasks that someone could do, which is to wash the feet of someone else.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if y'all know this, but like back in the day, folks, you know, didn't walk around wearing Nikes and you know, and and and there was no there was no paved roads.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: And there wasn't no paved roads or any of that, yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: My Lord.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you got dust, gravel, dirt, and all sorts of athletes.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Donkeys andkees and animals.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, they all walk the same path.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you came home with some souvenirs.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you did.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he stoops down and washes the feet of these men.
• 6:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, if that isn't the model and the definition of servanthood, I don't know what is.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And man, and so uh we we had a chance to do a staff off-site earlier this week, and we do that twice a year where we just come away and man, we're poured into and we sharpen iron and and and and we and we rest and relax and we have fun and we're poured into.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And man, this this one was one of my favorites.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and you shared this talk about about the towel and the the blessing and the benefits of using the towel, but also you you you gave us some caveats and some warnings in regards to the towel.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so, man, I'd I'd love to explore that uh with you, man, as as we really talk through sort of three truths or or or three anchor points around the towel.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: The first being is that the towel was never meant to protect you, man, and you did a wonderful job in talking about how we could use that towel just as a shield.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Would you mind just talking through that?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I know I shared a personal story of how in ministry there was a season, and I think I might have mentioned it on the podcast before, how I kept doing the thing, like what I signed up to do and serve, and I was serving the church from a platform and leading worship week after week, and I would see God move, I would pray over people, all the things were happening that you hope are happening, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: But deep inside I was just like empty, and so I I think the phrase I used is I led people to the well, but I didn't drink myself, and and the whole idea of using the towel to protect yourself, I I think that I use the word shield to shield yourself is because there's people that you're struggling and you're going through a lot internally and you're facing a lot of turmoil mentally, emotionally, spiritually.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: But as long as it looks like you're doing well on the outside, you're content.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think a lot of us in in not just in church, but or just in society in general, yeah, as long as the people that we're around think that we're okay, that that's okay, and that's good enough.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so then so then we serve other people.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, in the context of church and ministry, we invest ourselves into small groups, we invest ourselves into serving on a dream team, we invest ourselves into whatever is needed because we feel so good in doing it because people's lives are being changed, all while we're hurting on the inside.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so when it what I'm what I meant by using it as a shield, you cover yourself and no one sees the real you.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and so it keeps it keeps you from being exposed because as long as people are distracted with the good that you're doing, yeah, the purposes that you're fulfilling, you think you're doing good.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: But again, God sees everything.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the God who sees in secret, he knows your heart's condition, he knows the condition of your soul.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, what good is it to do all of these things?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: What good is it to to win the world and lose yourself?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so, again, in serving, we pick up towels, but instead of getting on our knees and humbling ourselves and truly serving from a healthy place because if I'm gonna get on my knees and serve others, I that means I have to get on my knees before God first, before anything, come on, and allow Him to do in my life what needs to happen.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of us would instead of running to God, we run to the thing, to the opportunity, because it's easier to serve people than it is to deal with the issues that I have on the inside.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right, and so I know that that was that was that whole concept of using the towel as a shield.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: I also mentioned we we use the ladder as as a supply, yeah.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's people, again, in all contexts, that will serve people with the intent of gaining something, yeah, yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I love to serve people because when people tell me, hey, you did a great job, that actually feeds my ego.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feeds it feeds who I am, it gives me affirmation, and you like that feeling.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so because you're addicted to the affirmation of people, then you're you're gonna serve.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you're still doing good, right, but with the wrong intentions, the wrong motives.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's it got twisted.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's so good, man.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: It you reminded me of a quote that I read probably about almost a decade ago by by Lecrae.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, if you live for people's approval, you'll die from their rejection.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and man, yeah, affirmation and and and acceptance of man, it's a terrible fuel.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I mean I I I love that that piece there.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: The the the second point, man, that you really helped us kind of anchor around was that you know the people who cost you the most, like they're they're still worth the towel.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the ones that we uh find ourselves struggling to serve, come on, let's just be honest.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like the ones that we actually go out of our way, maybe to avoid serving and interacting with maybe the very ones that God is drawing us to, and surprisingly, maybe some of the biggest blessings in our lives.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, excuse me.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think about Peter, and you know, it's easy to look at Peter from a very humanistic or human viewpoint and say, man, this guy, he just keeps stumbling, you know, like he had foot and mouth disease, like at every turn, just like Jesus is always just rebuking him and chastising him.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe he was, but just to see again, Jesus over and over, even to the point where you know Peter denies him, and Jesus still finds his way to Peter, invites him out of the boat, and says, Hey man, remember what I the ministry I gave you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go I I meant that go feed my sheep.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, Jesus washes Peter's feet just as much as he did Judas, right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: In the same basin, same towel.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then that after that same night, Peter goes ahead and cuts a soldier's ear off.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and then he goes and he denies Jesus three times.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: But then when Jesus, the risen Christ, meets Peter later on, he asks him, like, hey, do you love me?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then he reiterates, well, then feed my sheep.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Feed my sheep, feed my sheep.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: He's for Jesus to tell Peter that it wasn't that he counted him out.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're too violent.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, you're too violent.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna ruin my reputation.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh no, like I can't trust you.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do you deny me.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: I can't no.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Hey, go feed my sheep.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he recommissions him.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what Peter himself probably thought, like, yeah, I'm not worthy.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I ruined my chances.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, Jesus comes and shows him the faith that he has in him and recommissions him and tells him, feed my sheep.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right, because Peter, Jesus goes back and finds Peter doing the thing that he was when he called him.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's out on the boat.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so, to your point, yeah, it looks like Peter's resigned himself, like, yep, I'm done.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way I can come back from this.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I dunno I deny I lied three times and I knew Jesus after spending three and a half years with him, and I committed assault on somebody.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's obviously he's running away.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yeah, I'm just gonna go back to fishing.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And man, there may be some of you out there today where you like you feel that way, like you really do feel like Peter.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: You feel like you have blown it, you have missed it, you may have quote unquote denied Jesus, and you know, maybe not to the extent that Peter did, but maybe in the way that you live or compromise or just flat out sin, and you just think you're done.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus still wants to wash your feet, he still wants to recommission you, he wants you to re-up on your assignment and go and feed his sheep.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the way that you feed the sheep may look different than the way that you did before, sure, but it's still the same mission and it's still the same calling, it's still the same salvation.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's still the same gospel.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: You get to preach the same gospel, and you still get to watch Jesus do the same miracles.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and because Jesus calls us to do that, he calls us to be the salt and light of the earth and to be his hands and feet.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, he has more faith in us, I think, than we have in ourselves.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, and uh word, and like it's easy to sit at a table and go through a list of names and be like, yeah, no, you know, this person, nope, nope, crazy, you know, as can be.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you start kind of just counting people off.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And but one of the the dangers about that is that Jesus didn't do that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, he didn't.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like Jesus went to the cross for the sins of the world, which means the sins of everyone.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: For everyone.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: That includes the people that you think are crazy.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so for us not to serve them, for us not to even believe in them and even develop and invest into those people, like you said earlier, yeah, there's probably some of the cra people that we think are the crazies in church, yeah, that are probably the greatest assets to the ministry that are available to us, but we keep avoiding them because they don't fit our bill of what it should look like.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: They don't dress like me, they don't look like me, they don't vote like me.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: They go, they eat Chick-fil-A now, Popeye's, you know, and then so we start different kind of setting us apart.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: We have we we have we have these lists and these check boxes, and then before long, you know, we're we're not serving with the towel.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're not we're not picking up the towel, we're picking up a preference.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I'm so thankful that Jesus, when he died, he didn't have a preferred list.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking with the strongman leaders last night, just sharing part of your diva with them, and I just got so emotional because I was like, man, I thank God that when Jesus died on the cross, he didn't have a preferred list.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because Elmer, I'm telling you, I wouldn't be on it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, same.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be on that list, man.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be here today if Jesus had a preferred list of people that he wanted to hang on a cross for.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be on that list.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would not be here today.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I would dare not serve out of preference.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, is it hard?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are people irritating and annoying?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the Lord reminds me, Willie, so are you.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: There was somebody right now who you annoy and irritate.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're not annoying, you you loud.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I am loud.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're loud.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that irritates people.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: I hear you all the way down the other hall.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh-huh.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You hear me on the parking lot, man.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and listen, that annoys people.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not everybody's cup of tea.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I heard.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody's gonna be your cup of tea when you're when you're leaving.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're just not.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is where man, we just get to what it die to ourselves and just remember it is not about me, it is about it's about them and and blessing them.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then this this last anchor thought, man, which was so good.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot give away what you were never developed to carry.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot give away what you were never developed to carry.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we're we're talking about your character, we're talking about your integrity, we're talking about now who you are as a person because discipleship, you know, it's not about like a program, it's not about being rote and religious, it's about relationship.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's what Jesus modeled, so he doesn't just wash their feet in in John 13, he does life with them prior to that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so for three years, Jesus is doing life with these disciples, these men that he's selected, and they're learning everything from him, they're watching firsthand accounts.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus is giving them opportunities to go out to to minister to people, to to fail.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and but he still keeps picking them up and and like deploying them.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's go, let's do this, you know, and then he comes to this moment in John 13 where he washes our feet and he tells them, Hey, serve like me.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so and which is beautiful, yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Which that's the importance of discipleship, of being mentored, being in a small group, being in a in a godly community, you know, where we're growing.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think our personal relationship with God is so important.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because if we're gonna serve other people with the heart of the Father, that means we need to know the heart of the Father.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we can't we can't we can't tell people, hey, this is what God wants for you.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: You don't even know his voice.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't know his voice, you don't know his heart, and it it'll literally be the blind leading the blind.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think you're also in danger of abuse.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just think you're you're in danger of harming people where you now beat the sheep instead of feeding the sheep and instead of leading the sheep.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, we're we're under-shepherds that that are serving the good shepherd.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no way that we should lead anybody in a way that doesn't lead them closer to Jesus.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it doesn't feel good for them, even if they argue, but like the one thing we don't want every people to come away is saying, Man, they they didn't lead me toward Jesus.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know what I mean?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like we if anybody stumbles immediately toward Jesus, let it be on their account, not not us.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a stumbling block.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I you you stumble because of your own sin and your own pride.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be because of Willie Simpson.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then speaking of developed, hold up before we before we move forward.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, like all of that, so John 13, yeah, Jesus gives us he washes their feet with a towel, right, which is important because if Jesus is is humble enough to do the lowly lowliest of tasks and be the example to us, we should follow his example and serve others.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but the difference between us and Jesus is that he's God.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: He is right, but then right after John 13, John 15 comes.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: And John 15 is where Jesus is saying, Hey, I am divine, yeah, you are the branches, you have you abide in me, and I'll abide in you.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and then he talks about fruit that will last if you abide in him.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so the important part of it, I I mentioned that John 13 and and 15 happen in the same room, the same table, the same night.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so Jesus washes their feet, tells them, Hey, serve like me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: But then he tells them later on, hey, you're gonna be hated like me.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so suffer like me.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're gonna go through a lot of things but suffer.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: But he he introduces himself as the vine.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he tells you, he tells us, yeah, abide in me.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the main things I was emphasizing for our staff on uh when we did our offsite was that yeah, we're gonna be annoyed, it's gonna cost us something.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Others, it's not all fun, it doesn't always fit our schedule.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: It could feel like an inconvenience, but when you invest yourself completely and you go all in, if you do it on your own strength, it's gonna break you.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, that's so good.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: But when you abide in Christ, when he when you are the branch and you make him divine and like you get that right, like he becomes your sustenance.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so all of the output that we're putting out, all of the time, right, all of the energy, all of the effort, it's it's the sustenance of the Lord, it it's him through us, and it's not me being me and me just pouring it all out.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Am I gonna be tired?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be tired because we're made of flesh.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it but I will be refreshed in the Lord, yeah, and that's the difference that when we're serving people, when it's all out of our own ability and all out of our own strength, and we planned it, we figured it out, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be exhausted and we're gonna be broken at some point.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: But when it's because the Lord sent me and there's prayer behind it, and Holy Spirit lead the way, and and you find your sustenance and and everything that you need in Christ, man, it's a game changer.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good, man.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he says in verse 5, yeah, John 55, apart from me, you can do nothing.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Elmer, that that that has always been an interesting statement.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because he doesn't say like you can't do like anything, like you know, because you know, people today they they do ministry, they program services, they they preach, they teach, they they lay hands, they baptize, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like they still do that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And sadly, there are people that do that apart from Christ.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's just a crazy thought like to think about that.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: But but Jesus is saying, hey, like apart from me, like you cannot you can't walk in holiness, you can't walk in peace, you can't walk in wisdom, like you can't walk at rest, you can't walk in in righteousness apart from me.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't walk in life.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's easy for us to equate ministry with life, with abundant life.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, the church.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is growing team is popping, man.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: We got revival happening.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: They should we're going viral in all different places.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're going more viral than bronchitis.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not what Jesus is talking about.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't have life apart from it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that whole that whole verse is really talking about it ends up talking about the fruit.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Fruit that will last.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Fruit that will be fine.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And fruit that will last even when we're not here.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: It will last beyond us.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so apart from you can do nothing, meaning, like, I could do something, sure.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And there could be something that pops up, and there's this little fruit.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna die.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna wither.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: It won't remain.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: It won't remain.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and even if if it we produce it, it won't last because it's apart from him.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so for things to remain, our goal is not just to produce things and then move on to the next thing and then see things die.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, we want to create things and be part of things that give life.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're here to give life, to speak life, to produce life-giving things.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you're just walking around life and just producing things that die, check yourself.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you've started like ministries, you've served in places and things are dying and people are being hurt.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Check yourself.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like check yourself.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not the people.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry about the other people.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Check yourself.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because that means you're not attached to the vine.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: So apart from me, I you could do nothing.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus is saying is it's all it's not gonna last.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, it won't.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna die because it's not, it really doesn't have life in it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, man.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so so he says that because he is talking about everlasting fruit.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's good, brother.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have a checkup.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Say it with me over from the NECU.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: NECU.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, somebody.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you're right, like we cannot carry what we haven't been developed in.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And speaking of developed, my good friend, Omar Canyas Jr., has written a book.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a phenomenal book, and it is called Developed.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Developed.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Developed.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: A seven-focus book for worship leaders who want to lead beyond the stage for by Dr.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Bennett.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, this is awesome.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Elmer, I just want to ask you, man, a few questions about this book because uh, you know, you gave me an advanced copy and everything, and I got a chance to read it, and I was just like, man, this is good.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I started implementing a lot of what you shared here with my own team.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, I asked for your help on that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just want to ask you first and foremost, man, you know, why this book and and why now?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when I'm 44, when I turned 37, God started stirring me to write.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I've written songs since I was 15.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought I'd I'd ever write a book.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see my I still struggle seeing myself as an author, even though I find myself manuscripting a lot more.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I think this is the book that I wish somebody would have given me 20 years ago when I was a young leader.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know the book focuses a lot on worship because it's it's it's the lane within church that I was developed in and really people invested in in my life.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really this the place where God opened doors for me to step into and really be developed by other leaders.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's a book that it's it came out of initially about a year ago, and I myself wanting to develop our worship leaders at Life Point.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I I created a seven-step masterclass type thing, and we were here all Saturday and we fed everyone and we went hardcore, just we're gonna be here all day, yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went back to that moment because we recorded it, and then I l I was listening to five hours worth of audio, and I'm like, this is bigger than just a class, and I didn't want it just to be a resource just for worship leaders.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how do I how do I create this for more people?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's when I really felt the Holy Spirit saying, write the book.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've had friends my whole life tell me you need to write a book, write a book.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I've never been driven to like, yeah, I'll write a book, make money, sell a bunch of copies.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's still not the goal.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but as I wrote it and as it finally came to be something, I realized that it is something that that the Lord has been writing through my life.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if it can help other leaders become even better and overcome things that maybe they're facing or before they face some of the things, I think it'd be a great tool.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also a resource for for teams, not it's not just for individuals, but it will help people have a mindset of developing their character.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it talks about you know private formation, private, you know, devotion before you're put on platforms.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because in the context of church, there's a lot of gifted speakers, a lot of gifted musicians, a lot of gifted worship leaders that are given platforms, but they don't have the character formation.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they don't even know scripture, they don't even know God, you know, in some places, some places it's a paycheck.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so in in in the heart of protecting the platform, which for me is real sacred, yeah, you know, I really felt this is a great book for people.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, don't put yourself in places, don't put people in places that have not been developed yet.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So treat this as a tool to really invest into people spiritually, emotionally, in their character before you release them in front of a lot of people.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, you can give people a towel, but if their intents and their motives are the wrong, the wrong are wrong, yeah, they can hurt more people than actually do good.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really hope that this this book helps people in their formation before they pick up a towel.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Or as they're holding a towel and serving people, yeah, that they can just check their heart.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no, that's good.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I and to your point, yeah, you did answer my my my next question here was, you know, again, who the book is primarily for.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, you did write it from a worship leader perspective, but again, like I said, I've read through it, and this really does apply to anyone that is in leadership or or really to any team dynamic, to team function in inside the church or outside of the church.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, you know, the the the the meat of this book is really about uh character formation, like who you are as a person and who you are now, who you are becoming.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So again, this book is awesome, and it is not just written for those who are in the creative spaces or in the worship spaces or or even serving in in the in the the church world.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you are in a position of influence at in at any level, this book will bless you.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you it will.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, Pastor Elmer, what's the one line that you would say really captures the heart of this book?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well captures the heart of the book.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, your character will keep you where talent got you, pretty much.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the pre the preface.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that a lot of people are where they're at because they're gifted.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody saw your talent first, you know, but it's your character that will keep you there and really make the greatest impact.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so it is the whole book is is it is that contrast.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Most of it, the contrast of character versus talent.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: You you you've talked a lot about character before platform, even here, you know, at LifePoint.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So for those who right now are chomping at the bit, where can they purchase this particular work of art?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the book is available on Amazon.com.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's available all over the world.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's also the digital books available, like a Kindle, Apple Books, all of those things.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and I'm gonna start working on the audio version of the book in the next few weeks.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so, for those of you that don't like to read, like physical books and you or you might be too busy to pick up a book, it'll be available on all platforms to listen to.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be narrated by you, it'll be narrated by me.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: If if you need a hook, I'd I'd be happy, you know what I'm saying, to provide my my skills, my linguistic skills, you know what I'm saying?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love it because I I could read this at all times of the day.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I could read I could read it at 7:30, at 9 50.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: We could do 11 a.m.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: and 12 45.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I've had fun with making videos recently.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Elmer, this has been awesome.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I've I've enjoyed, man, just chopping it up with you always.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And man, let me just want to say again, congratulations.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is I I think a a true testament, man, to your your giftedness and your humility and just the spirit of excellence that you have.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I you know I I look at this as really not even a culmination.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I just think it's like one of many books that you'll release, but I I do think it speaks powerfully to the work that you've allowed the Lord to do in you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and like I said, I'm thankful I get to be your friend, man, and just get a front row seat to what the Lord's doing in your life, bro.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and if I can encourage people, this book is something the Lord's been doing in my life.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I think in being obedient and actually going out and putting this out and publishing, like I I thought I would have like several albums out before I had ever had a book.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I've written so many songs.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right, yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so most of my life I've been driven to like one day I'll have an album, one day I'll have this English and Spanish, I'll do all this.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: But then here comes a book.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I and honestly, as much as I love music, I I really think this encapsulates my heart better than a song would.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a song is not mine, a song as a song is not yours.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: It in our context, I write worship music, it belongs to God.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm singing a hymn.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll sing it anyways.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: If y'all listen to it, if you choose not to, yeah, but a book is a story that you get to share.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's a living testimony, kind of that in words.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and even if you don't read it, I I do encourage you if the Lord has challenged you or put something in you to actually share with people, share your story.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if it's in book format, yeah, or if it's just sitting down with somebody and sharing, hey, this is what God's done.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mentor somebody, and that's why the book's called Developed.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's not titled Buy Me.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's called Develop.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because the goal is like, who are you developing?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Who has developed you?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's the question that I look at this next generation, I look at my kids.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't want somebody else investing in them and developing.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: I do, but I want to be the first one at the door, like, hey, come here, sit down, let me teach you.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and so while I'm able to, I want to be the person investing in their lives and anyone that the Lord's brought into my life, and I I I've even said this in my book, it's it's not just all the wins and successes, it's it's failures and flaws and things that where I didn't make good decisions.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so there's a lot of people along the way that God might have put in on my path, and I let them down because I wasn't looking at them as somebody that the Lord wanted to develop, I just saw them as like, all right, you're part of the team, let's make things happen.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I had the towel, but maybe wasn't stewarding it well.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so this in this season of my life, the Lord's really been teaching me how to steward not just things well, but the relationships and people and their gifts.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I'm able to speak into someone's life right now in this season, I want to encourage you to be obedient to God, listen to the Holy Spirit, yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Trust that the gift and the talents that He's given you are with a purpose, that He wants to do something great through your life, but allow someone to speak in your life to help the shaping of that character.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it happens through the word of God, but find somebody that will do life with you, find someone that will hold you accountable to it and allow yourself to be developed first and then go develop somebody.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, and then buy the book and give it to them.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, come on, develop, available today.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Go out and purchase it in Jesus' name.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, amen.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: This has been fun, bro.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Love you, dude.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Love you too.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Good stuff.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thank you guys for tuning in to this episode of the Worship and Leadership Podcast.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.