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The Interim Who Never Got a Real Yes · The Healthy Church Staff Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: You introduced them as the interim.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a year and a half ago?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: They still don't get invited to the planning retreat, they still do the whole job, they still get the cheaper title.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And today on the podcast, we're gonna talk about interim and at least the interim title.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Not about interims being bad, but this is maybe about how a lot of churches deal with interims and how we maybe should rethink those things.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hi there, my name's Todd Rhodes.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're listening to the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of the co-founders over at chemistrystaffing.com.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It all started a year and a half ago, according to my opening story.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It all started because you needed coverage.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody left.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: The search was gonna take a long time, you thought.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you asked this person to step in.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do this on a short-term basis?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: An interim, we'll call it, just so we know.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that sentence had a season in it, and but we never really determined how long this interim thing was gonna last.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: We thought it would be maybe a couple months, but then it turned into a year.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are, 18 months in, and you still introduce the person with the temporary word, the temporary interim word.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: The congregation heard for now so many times that it stopped meeting that there was any kind of clock even attached to it.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It started meaning that this is a category, and the category is doing real work when you will not name the position as real.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: The planning retreat invitation went out.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's the whiteboard, their name was not on the list.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because why?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're interim.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: They've been doing it for a year and a half, but they don't get the invite because they're interim, because we don't want to lock anything in yet, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a temporary thing.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because the store, the board, maybe still wants that optionality for what might happen in the future.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the person that's doing the job now, that's been doing the job for the past year and a half, being called the interim, is not in the room where the job actually gets aimed.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: They will execute the plan.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of times they'll do it to a T, they won't complain about it, but they will not help write the plan.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not a temporary arrangement.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's a staff member that you use and a decision that you refuse.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the staff person feels it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're that staff person.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you are, you feel it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: The team feels it.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: You call it prudence.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're just trying to take it one step at a time, but they call it a closed door with their title on it, right?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you look at what you're actually paying for.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And here's where it gets real.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Truth be told, if I'm just gonna cut through all the crap here, you kept the discount.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: You kept the discount.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Interim pay, interim benefits, interim voice, but you gave them the full load.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they preach on Sundays, they run the meetings, they carry the same hours as the person who left a year and a half ago, but you kept the cheaper line because we haven't decided.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: You decided.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: You decided you like a whole job at a maybe price, and that's not stewardship.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's just dressed up.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're just saying that you're keeping your options open, you're trying to be cautious.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the church gets that flexibility, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: The human gets a life that they cannot plan because they don't know how long they could be doing this role.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there they get no, hey, we want you type of an affirmation that they can really take home.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you kept the interim title maybe because you did not want to overpromise.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you thought a maybe was kinder than a no.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen that happen in churches before.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you kept the interim title because you thought a search was maybe still in the air, and it meant that you were just gonna be careful.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Although all those things are, I get that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's also how a person lives 18 months without a real yes, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Caution that never picks a date is not care.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's really a church that likes the exit door more than the human standing in it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: A maybe is a decision.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: You think you have not chosen, but you have.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Every month that you leave their title as an interim and leave them in that interim role without any kind of closing date or any kind of clarity, you choose that optionality.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Every time you say, hey, we're still in process, we're working on it, but they thought it was going to be three months and then six months and then twelve months, and now you're at 18 months.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: You choose your comfort over that person's clarity.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Process is not a home, process is a hallway.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: 18 months in a hallway is not a search.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it is a role you will not bless and you will not end.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they cannot do excellent work inside a maybe that you refuse to close.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, you can't recruit well while you keep a ghost title on a real seat.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here's my admonition for you today.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Stop treating the word interim like it's a kindness.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hire them, end it, or date it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Pick one, pick one interim, okay?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: This week, three honest options.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hire them, say the yes, change the title, put them on the retreat, play the real seat, and just hire them.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you end it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you thank them, maybe you name a last Sunday, maybe you stop using a person you will not keep in the long term, just for your or feel like you've got some things covered.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Put them first, put a date on your calendar, a real date.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Not this fall.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: A Tuesday that the board will vote, a Sunday that maybe dies one way or the other.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Tell them the date to their face so that they can write it down and they know what the future looks like.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't pick one of those three options, you already picked maybe.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: The church likes the optionality.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: The human is living in it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your bottom line for today.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll hear this and hear the heart of this.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: An interim title after 18 months is not caution, it's a maybe that you like and a person that you will not bless.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So hire them, end it, or put a date on the calendar.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's some pretty heavy stuff today.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're living this long-term interim and you're just leaving people hang, it's not a really godly thing to do, and it's not a good thing for the church overall.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: It might seem like it's a good thing, but it's not a great thing for your church overall.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not a great place to be if you're the person that's stuck on that interim hamster wheel.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know you actually want people who can plan a life around a real yes, and I know that's one of the reasons that you listen to this podcast because you come here, we get to spend a little one-on-one time together, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't broadcasting, this is one-on-one, it's just kind of you and me talking, probably me right in your ear pods or whatever, right in your ear.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's hopefully why you listened, so that we can have a little bit of a conversation.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, I would love to reciprocate the conversation, right?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So reach out to me anytime.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you've never reached out to me, I'd love to hear from you today.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: If there's any way I can help your church, particularly in anything with healthy staff initiatives, hiring, firing, budgeting, succession, all those kind of things.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I and my staff here at Chemistry Staffing love to help churches get clarity around those things.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've also I've been mentioning this every day, but if you've not done it yet, take that 2026 Healthy Church Staff Assessment.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can do that at churchstaffassessment.com absolutely free.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's it for today.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Be back again tomorrow here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be able to break it up.