Latest / Dam Parenting / Postpartum Mental Health in the Netherlands: Veronika's Honest Story

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Postpartum Mental Health in the Netherlands: Veronika's Honest Story · Dam Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to Down Parenting, and this is day five of our 12
0:03
days of Christmas. Maybe today is feeling very
0:05
full, or maybe it actually feels a little quiet in a way that
0:09
hits unexpectedly hard. Parenting far from home can feel
0:13
especially tender during the holidays.
0:15
And if that's you, your village is here.
0:18
Day 5 is an episode many parents tell me they made them feel seen
0:22
again. Today's episode is with Angela
0:24
from the Expat Parenting Collective.
0:26
Because parenting abroad often means navigating different
0:29
cultures and expectations and family dynamics and all at once.
0:33
And so being home with our old family with their old rules and
0:37
routines, well, it brings up its own challenges.
0:41
In this episode, we respond to a listener question about raising
0:44
a baby far from home and setting boundaries with family and
0:47
finding the support when your village looks different than
0:49
what you imagined. Welcome back to Down Parenting,
0:56
the podcast where we get real about raising kids in today's.
0:59
World one raw, honest conversation at a time.
1:02
I'm your host, Eva. And today's.
1:03
Episode touches on something deeply personal for so many of
1:06
us. What happens when parenting?
1:08
Isn't just about school runs and bedtime stories, but also
1:11
navigating passports, language barriers and the ache of being
1:15
far from our support systems. Parenting is never simple, but
1:19
raising kids away from our home countries?
1:22
That adds a whole new layer of challenges, loneliness and
1:25
cultural confusion. Sometimes all we really want is
1:28
someone who gets what it's like to juggle it all in a completely
1:32
different. Place if you've ever felt the
1:34
weight of. Parenting Abroad.
1:35
The Identity. Shifts the silent doubts.
1:38
The cultural am I doing? This right moments then this
1:41
episode is for you. I'm thrilled to be joined by
1:43
Angela from The Expat Parenting. Collective A vibrant space.
1:46
Dedicated to supporting globally mobile parents through the
1:49
emotional, practical and cultural challenges of raising a
1:53
family. Abroad, Angela.
1:54
Brings years of insight into what it really takes to parent
1:57
across borders with empathy. Resilience and a strong sense of
2:01
community. Today we're unpacking A
2:02
heartfelt listener question that.
2:04
Sparked a rich conversation. We'll share real stories, honest
2:07
insights, and practical tools to help you feel more grounded and
2:11
supported wherever in the world you're parenting.
2:14
So. Whether you're walking your dog
2:16
or. Folding your laundry or just
2:17
taking a quiet moment for yourself?
2:19
Settle in. This one is for you.
2:22
Hi, Angela. Hi.
2:23
Eva, thank you for having me. Well, thank you for joining us.
2:26
So as you know, I have a question from a listener and I
2:29
thought I'd read it out now and then we can unpack it for our
2:33
listeners. So it goes like this.
2:34
I'm originally from Asia. I moved to the Netherlands a few
2:36
years ago to be with my husband. Since having our baby, I've been
2:39
really struggling. Back home it's very normal to
2:42
have family, especially in laws, deeply involved in supporting a
2:45
new mother, helping with the baby, cooking, or just even
2:48
being there. But here my in laws are just not
2:51
present or supportive as I hoped they would be.
2:53
It's been such a different experience than what I imagined
2:56
and I often feel very alone and overwhelmed.
2:58
The stress of trying to manage everything on my own while
3:01
adjusting to a different culture and their way of doing things
3:04
has been really hard on me emotionally.
3:06
I'd love to hear your advice on how to cope when you feel like
3:08
you don't have the family support you expected and how to
3:11
handle a stress that. Comes with feeling, so.
3:13
Alone while raising a little one in a new country.
3:15
Thank you so much for talking about this.
3:17
So, Angela, when you hear this mother's message, what stands
3:20
out to you most about the cultural class she's
3:22
experiencing? Yeah, at first I have to say
3:25
that my heart goes out to this woman because I have been there,
3:28
I really have. And it is not easy.
3:31
It's not. She mentions a few things here.
3:33
She talks about adjusting to a different culture, feeling
3:36
alone, overwhelmed, and at the same time trying to ask her in
3:41
laws for help and more. And yeah, what do I think about
3:45
this? I I really feel that this starts
3:47
with a couple. Of course she mentions the in
3:49
laws, but it really starts with the couple.
3:52
And why do situations like this come as such a shock to parents
3:56
who move abroad? Well.
3:57
First, I think what's important to think about is we as humans
4:01
fall in love, connect, decide to start a family or start a life
4:05
together. And then our child comes along
4:07
and we don't realize that cultures do things in different
4:12
ways. And if we go about life in that
4:15
way, we don't have the necessary conversations that can help to
4:19
build a foundation that can help to dig deep to understand that
4:24
we are different and that's what makes life beautiful.
4:26
But at the same time, we don't realize that it also can cause
4:31
challenges in our relationships. I have to say one of the
4:34
elements there that touched on me was the different culturals
4:37
and their views of postpartum care, because we're all very
4:41
aware of certain areas in the world where they take postpartum
4:44
care to another level. In some Asian countries, the
4:48
mother is basically not allowed to move for a month.
4:50
Everything is done hand on foot. Take care of the mother.
4:53
You know, hold the mother before the child in Africa as well,
4:56
like the mother usually will move in with you for three
4:59
months, three years, you know, and really be like there to
5:02
support you because they've already gone through it and they
5:04
know where it is. And yet in our Western civilized
5:07
society, it's like we've all gone through it.
5:09
You can do it now. Yeah.
5:11
And I think this speaks to the evolution for a lot of Western
5:14
countries away from what we initially were.
5:16
We're living in communities in which we all helped each other,
5:19
and the community really was, you know, that it takes a
5:22
village. That village was life, and
5:25
that's how things were. I think that what we need to do
5:29
is we need to look at the fact that a lot of parts of the world
5:33
have evolved past that and that if you are in a relationship
5:38
with someone from a different culture, it's quite possible
5:42
that you may have different ways in which mothers are taken care
5:46
of after the baby is born. And this is the reason why I say
5:49
it's so important to really talk about these things before
5:52
because not only is it just two people, but there's a phrase
5:56
that some think it came from a movie, like you don't just marry
5:59
your partner, you marry the family, right?
6:01
This may or may not be true depending on the person who's
6:03
interpreting it. But I think what's important
6:05
here is that the family culture is something that is very much
6:09
connected to a partner. And so often our partners don't
6:13
question this to be anything else other than normal to them.
6:16
And that's the reason why I say we need to have these
6:18
conversations because it's so important to talk about how we
6:21
were parented, how our culture parents us, how our culture
6:25
parents in general. And with that comes how the
6:28
family kind of is taking part or not taking part of the process.
6:33
So there are some cultures in which the day after a baby is
6:37
born, mom or dad, whoever it may be, aunts coming over to help
6:42
take care of Mama and the baby. And then there are some, like I
6:45
said, and as you alluded to as well, lots of countries in which
6:49
it's more about independence. It's more about learning as a
6:53
family, this new family that's emerged, not the family of
6:56
previous and where you were raised, but this new family
6:59
that's emerged, letting the family unit learn how to create
7:04
and build and bond and be together.
7:07
You could see it from the perspective of learning new
7:10
routines. The mother's hormones have just
7:12
gone from pregnancy hormones down to normal female hormones
7:16
again. And with that, there are the
7:18
struggles that come with that. And there's also this baby who's
7:22
learning how to have all its organs to start up and to, you
7:26
know, learning how to eat outside of the womb, learning
7:28
how to, you know, use all all of its digestive and endocrine
7:31
organs, etcetera. Sometimes some families will
7:34
really want to have that time together to just into routine
7:37
and to learn how to live in a family of three or four or
7:40
however it may be. So going back to what I said
7:43
before, I'm going to reiterate, it's so necessary to have these
7:47
conversations which come down to what did a new baby coming into
7:52
a family look like when you were younger?
7:55
Did you observe this on anyone else?
7:56
What's normal? Did your mom go to help your
8:00
sister or brother when the new baby was born?
8:02
Having these conversations because they helped to plant
8:05
seeds in which questions can be asked.
8:08
Why do you think that is? That mom has to rush over
8:10
immediately. Maybe it's incredibly foreign
8:12
for someone and that's why having that space to have that
8:16
conversation is so, so, so important to understand and
8:19
curiosity truly the bridge to understanding.
8:22
When you're speaking there, it just makes me think like, what
8:24
would you say to this mother who feels like she's kind of torn
8:27
between that precious moments of the new development of a new
8:30
family and her partner and the frustration with the in laws?
8:34
How should you be kind of figuring that out emotionally
8:37
for her to deal with two very conflicting feelings?
8:41
Well, I think there's two different ways of going about
8:43
this or two different steps, I should say.
8:45
First, what comes first is she needs to have a conversation
8:49
with her partner and talk about how in her culture, family
8:54
usually comes immediately and helps and all the rest of the
8:57
stuff. And she's missing that.
8:58
And I think what comes first, even before that conversation is
9:01
some serious self-awareness, which can be really tough during
9:04
that postpartum period because there's so much, dare I say,
9:08
pressure on a mom with everything that's going on.
9:11
And so having that conversation with your partner first about
9:15
this honest feelings of what you're having and at the same
9:17
time and maybe talking about some, I want to say boundaries
9:22
and values and fears. And why I say this is because
9:26
she can express that in her culture, it is a value for the
9:28
family to be really assisting and a part of everything.
9:33
And that they don't see it as a burden that it truly is a love
9:36
that really is what connects it. A lot of that and it's a way to
9:39
contribute the boundaries could be that, you know, a lot of
9:43
families will say that they don't want their in laws to come
9:46
until two weeks after. You know, that could be a
9:48
boundary that can be set in that respect.
9:50
And the fears could be like, sweetie, honey, I don't think I
9:53
can do this alone. Where I come from, we help each
9:56
other and I know that this is not something that maybe your
9:59
culture or your family does. However, I need a little bit of
10:04
help, and that's what family is for, is to help each other when
10:08
we're struggling. And so starting with that
10:10
conversation can help to really kind of be honest, open and
10:15
vulnerable. And that kind of creates a
10:17
foundation to be able to figure out how to go forward to the
10:20
family. And in this respect, I think
10:22
there are two different angles of it.
10:25
One when you're honest and open by discussing values boundaries
10:28
and fears, then what you can have is an understanding of
10:31
where each other are coming from because you do you love each
10:34
other you've had this relationship for a while, you
10:36
understand each other, but you don't know everything about
10:38
where someone's from. So living deep in there can
10:41
really help. And what it also can do is by
10:44
your partner communicating their needs, what they're afraid of.
10:47
That can give you some understanding on how you can
10:50
develop agency when it comes to your in laws.
10:53
Yes, the partner who's struggling can absolutely speak
10:56
to the partner's parents. But I strongly believe that this
11:00
should start with the partner who's the child of the parents
11:03
and that comes with the agency to be able to speak up to them
11:06
in a way that it's really says like, look, mom, dad, you know,
11:11
this is your grandchild and my partner needs a little bit of
11:14
help or we would really appreciate it if you could stop
11:17
by, you know, once a week for an hour, spend some time with the
11:20
baby, whatever it may be that the mother needs in this
11:24
circumstance, in this situation. And that will always be
11:27
changing. And the other thing that's
11:29
important too is that and just because it should start with a
11:32
partner who's the child of the parents, I do think that there
11:34
is some there's something there as well in which the other
11:38
partner, the mother in this case of this example, needs to also
11:42
find ways to be able to speak up and to find her voice of how she
11:47
can also speak to them in a way that is polite but culturally
11:52
appropriate. And it could sound something
11:54
like, I'm sorry, for example, in a situation in which maybe the
11:58
partners in laws are are overstepping boundaries.
12:01
It could be something like, I'm sorry, thank you.
12:04
And we have chosen to do it a different way.
12:06
Or we do things a bit differently now, finding a
12:09
sensitive way to say something in this way.
12:11
And in this case, it could be. I really love having you around
12:16
for this exact listener and we would love to see you more.
12:21
Sounds so simple. I mean, I could even speak from
12:23
my own experience as my partners Dutch and the fact that my
12:26
mother in laws had two very different daughters in law and I
12:29
give birth and she's had two very different experiences.
12:31
And I am begging and pleading, like, please come and spend some
12:34
time with us. But that's just not part of what
12:37
she does. And she already had the
12:38
experience with her other daughter-in-law that that's not
12:40
what she did either. So she took it as that.
12:43
Meanwhile, my my father actually rings nearly every day, if he
12:46
can to try and, you know, squeeze some time in to talk to
12:48
my daughter. So it is very different
12:51
culturally when you said earlier about this is something that you
12:53
need to talk about ideally even before having a baby.
12:56
How can couples in the intercultural relationships
12:59
prepare for these kinds of differences before the baby
13:01
arrives then? Because you can discuss it, but
13:03
to me the reality is you don't know how you feel until the
13:06
baby's arrived. You've entered into a matrices
13:10
and your hormones are all over the place.
13:12
Have you any suggestions on that element?
13:14
Yeah, I still want to say that I really think it's important to
13:17
have those conversations about how we want a parent and how we
13:22
were parenting. And with all of these
13:25
conversations, there's always the possibility that things can
13:28
change. And when I talk about the
13:30
values, boundaries and fears exercise that we spoke about
13:32
before and as well as thinking about conversations like when
13:36
can family come see the baby or how does family help with the
13:39
baby? For us, this is always going to
13:42
be changing because with every transition, with every life
13:44
example or maybe a tough birth, a really difficult birth in
13:48
which you definitely need a lot more support.
13:51
We need to understand that one, we're always changing. 2, even
13:55
if we just think about the life of the growth of our baby from
13:59
zero to two years old, things are always evolving.
14:02
There are transitions, there are milestones and sometimes we need
14:04
more help and sometimes we need less.
14:06
And so I think we really should adopt this, you know, riding the
14:09
waves or going with the flow and understanding that maybe these
14:13
check insurance need to happen a bit more regularly to see how
14:16
can we help each other. My husband and I, we actually
14:19
have a time slot on our Friday evenings to check in with each
14:22
other every Friday after the kids have gone to bed.
14:25
And it doesn't mean it always is necessary.
14:27
It doesn't mean it always happens.
14:29
But the time is there because we know that not only are our
14:32
children changing and our family needs changing, but we're
14:35
changing too. And if you keep that in mind and
14:38
you just kind of leave some space for that conversation to
14:41
happen, you can course correct or readjust or whatever it may
14:46
be for the moments in which maybe what we originally thought
14:50
or needed at the beginning of this huge transition of
14:53
parenthood is not necessarily needed right now.
14:56
One thing most parents can agree on, no matter where they are in
14:58
their stages of parenting, is how vital.
15:00
Community is what? Advice do you have?
15:03
For parents who are feeling isolated or.
15:05
Overwhelmed and are. Looking to build meaningful
15:07
connections and find practical. Support.
15:09
Yeah, I think there are some people who may have grown up in
15:14
a place in which the family and all of the village or the
15:17
community is a really big one and decide that they don't want
15:20
that. And then likewise, vice versa,
15:23
someone who's lived in a city and has people around but feels
15:26
like they don't really need a lot of that and so on and so on.
15:32
I think it's important to talk about what we value very early
15:36
on among couples. And that could be, I need to
15:39
live in a city because I need to have culture and I need to have
15:41
organizations and I need to have connections and I need to have
15:44
the possibility to do X or Y because it's important to me.
15:48
Or the I really want to live a really quiet lifestyle in the
15:52
middle of a very rural area. These conversations should be
15:58
had very early on to understand how we can live our best lives.
16:03
But if we, let's say we become expat parents overseas and or
16:10
decide to move overseas with our young children or even older
16:13
children, it's really important to try to find our community.
16:17
And I think what we often are told is you know, you'll find
16:20
your friends within your child's class, You know, your parent
16:24
friends, mom friends. And for me that that really kind
16:27
of strikes a chord because it's like a forced friendship.
16:30
Like we don't have to be friends with all of our children's
16:34
friends parents. So I don't really suggest that.
16:37
Of course you can always look there and you can have
16:39
conversations and you never know where they will go.
16:42
Maybe you have a dinner of all the parents of your child's
16:45
friends and you find that you connect with one of them.
16:46
What I suggest is, is that you go out and you do things that
16:49
you love or that you're passionate about or that you
16:52
enjoy and you will find people who are like minded or enjoy the
16:58
same things. This could be joining a
17:00
mindfulness group or meditation group, going out to a dance
17:03
class, doing martial arts, it could be joining a public
17:05
speaking club, stuff like that. In regards to finding
17:09
connections, local connections, I always suggest that people, if
17:13
they find someone that they really kind of connect with,
17:16
that they invite them to go out to a coffee and you get to learn
17:18
a little bit about the local culture.
17:20
And then you also get to learn a little bit about this person and
17:23
see if maybe there's the potential for having a
17:26
friendship or more, you know, maybe that your families start
17:30
to get to know each other and you really become close friends
17:32
and this becomes part of your community.
17:34
Because I think one thing that's so important with communities is
17:37
the idea that if you are two people that are from different
17:39
cultures and, or live really, really far away and you move to
17:43
a new place, you don't have a support system.
17:45
And that can be really challenging.
17:48
For us, when we had our second child, we didn't know anyone to
17:51
leave our child with or know anyone really well to leave our
17:55
child with. And when I gave birth, she had
17:57
to come with us. And that was a bit of a icky
18:00
situation, or shall I say a sticky situation, maybe a little
18:03
bit of both because it was during COVID.
18:05
And so that was a bit challenging for us because they
18:07
didn't really want younger children at the hospital.
18:09
You know, she was only two. But the last suggestion I'll
18:11
give about building your community because it starts with
18:13
one connection. And then really you have to kind
18:16
of keep putting yourself out there.
18:18
The last one I would say is Facebook groups.
18:21
I know that when I first moved, I really wanted to connect with
18:26
other mothers and what I did was I looked on Facebook, I looked
18:30
on via Google and I found different groups that exist in
18:34
the world in which I can meet other moms that have
18:37
similarities to me. Whether this be English speaking
18:40
moms, would this be French speaking moms which whether this
18:43
be twin moms, whether this be whatever it may be, it could be
18:48
moms who like to block. The Internet is filled with
18:53
groups like this. When I first moved to South
18:55
Korea, I was craving something specific in regards to family
19:00
lunches that I had on Sundays. And I found a group called Club
19:04
Italia and I was able to find families, individuals, lots of
19:10
people. And this was a beautiful way to
19:13
help me connect with others and build community.
19:15
And I know that this exists all around the world and it's a
19:19
great place to kind of do a search to see if you can find
19:22
exactly what you're looking for in regards to community and what
19:25
you need in regards to a specific subset of or group of
19:30
people or desire or hobby or whatever it may be.
19:35
So you gave some suggestions there about community.
19:38
Are there small mindset shifts that can help parents see the
19:41
positives in both cultural approaches?
19:44
Yes. So I have three different
19:46
suggestions here. 1 is this is the way that my in laws show
19:50
love. This is all they know really.
19:53
And that the way that they show love, maybe that they don't come
19:56
around because maybe they wanted that space and they enjoyed that
19:59
space when they were raising their family.
20:01
So it's really important to kind of see it from like this is not.
20:05
That they don't want to participate, that this is just
20:07
the way that they show love, this is how they contribute.
20:10
The second one would be, is this me?
20:13
Is this the other person? Or is this our?
20:16
And what I mean by this is that is this my way of seeing things
20:19
in which I'm thinking the worst case scenario, is this the other
20:23
person kind of making an assumption or potentially seeing
20:25
it through a distorted lens? Or is this a really a problem
20:29
between this person and me? And I think if we start to see
20:33
it like that, often we realize that it's the lens in which we
20:37
see life. We're making an assumption that
20:40
the other person doesn't want to be a participant.
20:42
And I think that's really important for us to realize is
20:44
that our experiences color the way that we see the world.
20:47
So I think that that's an interesting reframe and mindset
20:51
shift as well. The last one I would say is what
20:53
is this challenge? And this one's a bit more, I
20:56
don't want to say harsh, but a bit more like, OK, let's put it
20:59
out there and let's see what we can do from this.
21:01
But what is this situation trying to teach me?
21:03
Or what is my reaction to the situation trying to teach me?
21:06
Because often our reactions are potent samples of or dare I say,
21:10
like dishes of wisdom. And it can show us a lot about
21:13
where we are, what we expect, what we want, what our needs,
21:16
what our desires, what our drives all of this.
21:19
And I think what's really important there is that often
21:21
during postpartum time, there's so much going on and we're also
21:25
sleep deprived that we forget about ourselves.
21:27
We forget about our needs, our wants, our desires, our
21:30
passions. And if we kind of go back to
21:32
what is this trying to teach me, maybe it is that, you know, what
21:35
I need to express to my partner that I need 5 minutes, just 5
21:39
minutes by myself every day. Not rushing off to breastfeed
21:42
the baby, not rushing off to do this, not rushing off to cook
21:46
dinner, change a diaper. My partner needs to take over
21:48
for 5 minutes. And I think those three things
21:51
can be helpful ways for us to kind of look at things from a
21:54
different perspective and maybe even learn something about
21:57
ourselves. Honestly, your first one already
21:59
got me and made me really pause. I'm gonna have to listen back to
22:03
this audio because I was really stuck in the first one.
22:06
It's a quite, quite an interesting perspective to
22:09
really take to have. So thank you for those.
22:12
Those are actually really interesting.
22:13
So when things are feeling really overwhelming, how can a
22:15
mother reconnect with her own resilience and sense of calm?
22:19
This is going to be individual for each mother, naturally.
22:23
And at the same time, I'm going to go back to kind of what I
22:27
said in that last one. What is this trying to teach me?
22:29
Because I feel like we lose ourselves during postpartum.
22:34
And it's not that we consciously lose ourselves, it's that we're
22:37
going through this transition, this identity shift.
22:40
As you mentioned the very beginning of this interview,
22:42
It's the idea of major essence. And it's not that we're
22:45
consciously closing the door on our past and opening a new door.
22:48
It's that there are so many changes during this time and we
22:51
need to find ways to connect with who we are.
22:54
And maybe some things have changed.
22:56
Maybe we still want to go out to the bar and grab drinks with our
22:59
friends and go dancing or whatever it may be.
23:01
And maybe there's is a part of us that's kind of grieving that
23:04
that can't happen as regularly as I once did.
23:06
So to kind of bring this all together, we need to find that 5
23:12
minutes to kind of maybe it would be journal about what we
23:16
want. Maybe it may just be quietly
23:18
sitting and putting our hands on our heart as we let the sun hit
23:22
our face for just 5 minutes and think about what is it that I
23:25
need in this moment right now? Something as simple as that.
23:28
And it could go as far as, you know, like what is a passion
23:31
that I once had and how can I rekindle something that I really
23:34
loved that I'm not finding time for right now.
23:37
It really comes down to finding a little bit of time to just
23:42
kind of be with yourself so you can let whatever needs to come
23:46
up. For me, it was very much like
23:49
just trying to find ways to connect with who I once was and
23:54
to also leave space for whatever it was I was missing.
23:57
I think a lot of us don't realize that there is a little
23:59
bit of grief in that postpartum period, and it's not because
24:02
that you have this beautiful new baby, it's that everything has
24:05
changed. So wrapping up here, what are
24:08
your final thoughts really to leave her with?
24:09
My final thoughts would be is that sometimes we can get over
24:13
things and other times you need to say something.
24:15
Often it's how you say it. And I feel that we need to have
24:19
these conversations with our partners before we go to our in
24:22
laws. And when we have those
24:23
conversations with our partners, kindness is super important and
24:27
often the most important predictor of relationship
24:31
satisfaction. And if we have these
24:33
conversations, we can start to plant seeds of interdependence
24:36
and communication and agency, which then builds that bridge to
24:42
have the conversations with the in laws.
24:43
And we also need to remember the kindness and attention to
24:46
ourselves throughout this whole entire transition and major life
24:50
event, One step at a time. And finally, what's one last
24:53
piece of advice you'd want to give any parent or family
24:55
moving? Abroad.
24:56
About postpartum expectations and family dynamics.
24:59
I think it's also important to think about understanding when
25:03
we have cross cultural relationships and potentially
25:06
how we can kind of cross a bridge to kind of go halfway
25:09
between cultures so we can familiarize ourselves with
25:12
another culture, whether it's our partners culture or the
25:15
culture we're moving to. If they are different.
25:17
And then we can practice like how is it that I can kind of
25:20
meet them halfway? I don't have to do 100%
25:23
everything the way that the Dutchies do or the way that the
25:26
Indonesians do or the way that Kenyans do, but I can practice
25:31
kind of meeting them halfway and then go out there and try it on
25:35
for yourself. You know, like what makes you
25:36
feel comfortable, what doesn't make you feel comfortable.
25:38
And in the end, curiosity is the bridge to understanding because
25:42
that's how we meet each other in a way in which we show that
25:46
we're making an effort and we are trying to understand.
25:49
And that really goes a long way, Really.
25:52
Well, thank you, Angela. That brings us to the end of
25:54
today's episode. I hope this conversation with
25:56
Angela has given you some reassurance and practical ideas
25:59
for navigating the ups and downs of parenting away from home and
26:02
a gentle reminder that you're not alone in this.
26:04
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26:32
and until next time, take care of your yourself.
26:34
And remember, you're doing. Better than you think.
26:36
Thank you, Angelo. Thank you.