Latest / Overthinking Games / Ep 67: Happy Silksong Day!!!

Transcript

Ep 67: Happy Silksong Day!!! · Overthinking Games

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Usually it's like just before my wife's alarm goes off because I work from home so I don't have to go anywhere.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll wake up to her alarm or before her alarm and I'll just scroll Reddit for like an hour before I drag myself out of bed.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I came across this video yesterday morning about this guy, it was like this girl talking to her husband about how he's eaten the same breakfast for like 24 years.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: And like, okay, and she's just and like the entire thing was like, my husband doesn't know he's autistic, but like this one thing proves it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, wait, so like eating the same breakfast for 24 years is autistic?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh man, like I that's one way to find out you're on the spectrum because like I've eaten the same breakfast for too many years, and it's just like it's an it's an anchor point in my day where I have a coffee and then like toast with peanut butter and banana.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I've had that every day for I don't know how long I've had that.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um I was kind of like thrown for a loop at 6 a.m.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: yesterday morning because I'm like, oh, maybe I'm autistic for eating the same breakfast for several years straight.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I should probably go get diagnosed instead of just assuming.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: But that that that that's been my adventure um for the last 24 hours.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a terrible cold open, but I'm gonna call it a cold open first.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Email us then with your breakfast.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, welcome to Overthin Games, a podcast about what video games and autism can teach us.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um find finding Brett, and I don't know if that's okay to say.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder, I wish Katie was here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: K Katie, because Katie can't diagnose it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Katie can't diagnose anybody.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um okay, thanks.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so today is a very special episode.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so my name's Dempsey.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Brett did the cold open and then sat this yelling at me to introduce people.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're the usual hosts, kind of, except Katie's dead, R.I.P.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Katie.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully she'll be back next week.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: She's off being married, I think.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is that was her excuse?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm married, I can't do this anymore.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think so.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was her excuse.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um today, uh it's still a very special episode.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't she literally just say she's gonna be out of town, and that's all she said?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think she said with her husband, which implies marital boards.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, she says, hey guys, I'm not here this weekend.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're going out of town tomorrow.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's whatever.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a married, that's a married person.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: She wasn't talking about us for.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't talking about us for her husband.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, um, today is a very special episode of uh Overthinking Games.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's kind of special, not it's like not that special.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's kind of like a regular episode, except we're gonna be talking Hollow Knight Silk Song.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um Brett and I are probably around 70% of the way, maybe 80% of the way through act one.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Seth, how far are you?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um as far as I can tell, I'm at the major boss of act two, and I've explored like a good chunk of what I think is probably the act two area.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in act two, you know what I'm talking about.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's kind of where we are.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're worried about like late game spoilers, I think you'll be okay.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're a mid-game at the most, and then early game, most of us are.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other than that, we are gonna have a very short what we've been playing this week.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Today is, I've been trying to say this, September 11th, uh, the saddest American holiday.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is today an American holiday?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it actually an American holiday?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: For us, we just like take a moment of silence throughout the day.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes if you happen to be in a grocery store at like 11 a.m.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: We I don't know if I'd call it a holiday.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: We just bring up other tragedies.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what Americans do on this day is we use that as an excuse to bring up other other tragedies.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, today is September 11th, 2025.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what have we been playing this week?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I will go first.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: My answer will be very short.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have been playing Silksong, and we'll talk more about that in the episode topic.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Brad, what have you been playing?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Mine is also pretty short.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I've also been playing pretty much only Silksong, except I did in preparation for Silksong, I went and beat Hollow Knight again.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I do have thoughts on Hollow Knight, and I don't know, I guess my thoughts on Hollow Knight kind of relate to Silksong in that like Hollow Knight now just feels like a prototype for what Silksong is.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like it feels like like my brain keeps going back to Metroid and Super Metroid kind of like indifference, and that's how I feel about these two games, um, aptly since it's a Metroidvania.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah, I've pretty much just been playing Hollow Knight.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I only went through I I I did 75% completion.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't bother for 100% completion because I just really wanted to play Silksong, and I was like three days late, three, four days late to playing it already, and I needed to catch up.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: So my plan is after I'm done silksong, I'm gonna go back and 100% hollow night, and then if I'm not 100% on silksong, then I'll 100% silksong.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: But that's that's uh I'm my my my bit is boring.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, Seth, I think you probably have more to say.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, I'm gonna cut in.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Seth, I'm I'm pushing you out.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to talk about this this Hollow Knight and Silksong comparison because I also played I played about the first third of Hollow Knight before Silksong, but I'm not gonna finish it.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think, in my opinion, Hollow Knight and Silksong remind me a lot of uh Tears of uh Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, in which I do think Hollow Knight is aesthetically and vibes-wise, I enjoy it more than I do Silksong, because I think there's a lot more like serene ambience.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like the City of Tears is so lonely in a way that nothing in Silksong I've experienced is.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think Silksong has a lot more like literally like it's a mechanical place, you're fighting sometimes robots.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's like um there's like industry evolutions.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's like industry.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You have a lot more game to get to.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's it doesn't feel as wild, I guess, as Hall and I felt.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hall and I felt like you were away from civilization.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I would agree.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: I would agree with that as well.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, and and for that, because like the the City of Tears is one of my favorite aesthetics or places ever, and I I think that so I don't know.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: It i i I know what you mean by the fact that it feels like a prototype, because I think that's true in a lot of ways, but I still think Hollow Knight is worth people playing because I think it the vibes are really different.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're two very distinct games.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I I I think I agree where so far I like the vibes of Hollow Knight better, but I also really like very like isolated, kind of sad games.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: I like games where I feel like I'm the only one there.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you mentioned this last episode where we were talking about how silksong feels more populated, definitely.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's very true, and so it's just a very different vibe, just like by definition.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's I think that's a conversation for the actual episode.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So okay.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Seth, what have you been playing?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh the honest answer is the majority silksong.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I think I'm a decent way into act two.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um act two is I don't think like a significant difference from act one.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like the vibe changes up a little bit, um, but in a good way.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: You guys will like it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't want to like spoil too much, obviously, so I gotta like dial back what I'm thinking about.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing I wanted to make a quick mention of is I talked about nine kings on the podcast last episode, which is a game that I've had an opportunity to like go back to and play a little bit more.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm only like one achievement away from 100% of the game.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think I gave it like pretty high praise last episode, but really, like this is a game you guys should give a try.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is I just like really well designed, it's a lot of fun, it is not a hard game, and I'm even playing it on like the harder difficulties.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Your schema for the game is essentially like how high can I buff up like one unit insanely big, and that you can just kind of steamroll everything.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not hard, you it's fun.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it feels like very mechanically unique, at least right now.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I've like, it's not the kind of game you're gonna drop like a hundred hours into, but I've played it for like 20, and it's probably not a real 20, it's probably a little bit less than that from like, you know, I left my computer on.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's solid.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like you'll you could get yourself an easy like 10 hours out of it and like feel really good about that time.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: The achievements I think are designed really well.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was able to get most of the achievements just from playing the game, but then there's a couple achievements that you're like, oh, this is very clearly supposed designed for me to like take advantage of this gameplay mechanic.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have done so anyway.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like teaching you different aspects to the game through like achievements, seeing like, oh yeah, I didn't realize it was an option for like being able to upgrade my base like nine or ten times and run like a base build.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um or for an early access game, do you because I I was just looking at it on Steam, I added it to my wish list.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, do you feel like it feels like an early access game, or do you feel like it feels relatively complete as is?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing I will say, so it got an update patch on like August 21st that added some like things that feel pretty fundamental to the gameplay.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like they uh they just added like a new rainbow like effects to the game, which are sort of like accessible by any characters.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: They had a major update where they added a whole new king, like a whole new uh faction you could play at like the start of August.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I you know, I picked up the game.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: When did I pick it up?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I picked it up August 29th.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So in terms of like just generally speaking, like it hasn't updated since I played it, but it seems like they're making pretty regular updates to it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know like they still have, and you can see it in game, they have like one of the factions that's like coming soon.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely like still in development.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're the kind of person who wants to wait till the game is out of development, like you could 100% wait on this, and I don't think it, you know, it would be a problem.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it's still fun, like you know, as it is now.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of those things where sometimes I buy early access games and I so deeply regret it because it's so it's like one developer and they just like haven't put the time into it that like maybe they could have, or like you know, they needed player feedback, and I'm one of those people that would rather just wait for like the beta phase to like end and just get into like full release.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: So at least most things are fleshed out, and the things that are updated are minor at best, or just like bug fixes and whatever.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sometimes like I've had a couple early access games that have been really great.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but mo I think more often than not, I'm like I I guess I'm like 50-50 on whether or not I've actually had good luck with them.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: This game is like definitely playable in its current state, but also like with them adding a whole new faction, like the way that the game works, adding a new faction is gonna be a pretty significant change in like how the game works overall.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, put a weight on it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, I think I got it on sale for like 50% off.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So just like wait till it goes on Steam sale and then get it for cheap.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, fair.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just added it to wish lists.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: So if it goes on sale, which reminds me, do I I I might have something new that I play after this, because Dune Dune Awakening, the MMO, just went on sale, and I kind of want that real bad.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one other thing I'll make quick mention of playing too is I kind of got in like a card game mood.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I started playing a little bit of Hearthstone again, which is like a weird game for me to go back to.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I played a lot of Hearthstone, I don't know, many, many years ago at this point.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: But uh Hearthstone, like most card games, has a standard, so it has like the most recent sets of cards are playable in like the main format, and then it has a like format for all the cards that we've ever printed.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been playing a lot of like the wild format just because I have cards from years and years and years ago that I want to play with, and I only play like one of the 10 or 11, 12 characters they have in the game at this point.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, card games are fun.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like I like card games.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have much other commentary.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really bad at them, but like you know, who cares?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Although someone who's been collecting Magic the Gathering since like 2011.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I I I get it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Have we talked Magic Brett?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Not really, no.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: We probably should.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I I sol I ended up selling off my collection to buy a nice gaming computer uh a couple years ago, or I guess like three years ago now.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I kept like five decks, and now I'm up to one, two, three, four, nine.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I was gonna say I have like I have like six commander decks and a couple other like 60 cards that never get played anymore.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, my playgroup exclusively plays commander, so I So does everybody.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I kinda wanna yeah, we talked about building like Pioneer or something like that, but yeah, we just haven't done that yet.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: But Destiny's like, I got no idea what these guys are talking about.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: None.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so silksong silksong.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel about the diagonal dash down?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: The diagonal down attack.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, go ahead, Seth.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I have a I have a take.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so here's my two takes.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: One, I think it's I okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So two things.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: One, I actually I like it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: For the reason of it's a good approach tool, much in the same way that like if a character in Smash Bros.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: had the ability to do that, which like I don't know, doesn't Sheikh have the ability to do that?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good approach.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like not a lot of enemies have a diagonal attack, so you can often like if you get into the rhythm for like diagonal pogos, it's very effective.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say for map traversal, I do not like it because it's it's weird to position yourself when you want to like pogo off of objects or enemies to like reach an area.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I much prefer to use the um the other crest that has the traditional pogo.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: The reaper crest, where it's kind of because I I just got the reaper crest a while ago and it it does kind of like an arc below, and it's more it's more like hollow knight.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: It does a little bit of a diagonal, but no, there is more.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a crest that has the hollow knights like just directly below you.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think you guys should have both been able to find it at this point.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's three crests in the starting area, but you can skip one of them.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, maybe.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: I've only gotten the one, the Reaper crest, which is it felt similar to Hollow Knight, but it's like it's still like a little bit of a diagonal.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's more like one-sided, it's not straight.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, this one is like like straight from like the original Hollow Knight.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it some kind of like the traveler or the explorer?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the wanderer.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: The wanderer, yeah.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so my my take on the diagonal dash is that most of what I've I've been very good at avoiding silksong spoilers, but I I do I have seen the same people, I don't remember what area it's in.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's in like a mid-act one area where you have to do a bunch of parkour on like red bulbs or like red roses or whatever.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I keep seeing people like clip that, and it's people just like raging over the parkour, and they're just like, it's bad, like the diagonal dash is terrible.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's them just like mashing the downwards dash and not like thinking about it.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's it's it's them being strictly bad and not understanding the parkour mechanics.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I've seen probably a dozen different people with the exact same issue, and I think that they are just bad at the game, and I think that the parkour is not an issue.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you if you pay if you take your time and don't just like rush it and get like flustered and anxious and annoyed at it, it's really not that bad.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: You just have to learn it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like it is a learning curve, but I think that people are kind of blowing it way out of proportion with how hard it is.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I also don't see people using because you get like the the what's it called?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the billowing cloak ability where like you can like float in place.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's really, really good for specifically parkour elements, because you can literally just hold yourself in the air at like the height of your jump, and then you can just slowly float to exactly where you need to like parkour next.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: So you just kind of like, okay, you hit the first one, jump up, like use the billow, slowly float down to where you need to go, activate your dash again, just like repeat, and you you can do it slowly and literally never fail.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I have not seen anyone use that so far, and it kind of really annoys me because I feel like people are just using this section for rage bait.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's working on me.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm getting angry about it, but like that's just me.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I actually I I think it's quite good.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And while I didn't like it at first, I like that they changed it from Hollow Knight because it's something that's a little bit like like Seth mentioned, it's a really good approach tool for combat.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: I love it for combat, and I actually prefer it over because I have the Reaper Crest, I prefer it for that for combat.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, and I I do like the kind of like added challenge that it brings to parkour.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: It just it's a different way to approach it and it makes it feel like a different game.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't, it just makes it feel like it's not the exact same game, just copy and paste it again, which I really like.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So those are my two takes about the dash.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I like the dash one because it's a very early fuck you.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really good because otherwise, I don't think people would ever use that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think the fact that it forces you to use it at the beginning, because I think if it gave you the traditional moveset, people would never move away from the traditional moveset from Hollow Knight.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the fact that it gives you something so different, and you have to use that, and you have to become competent with that before you can do what you were used to in Hollow Knight.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it it really widens how people are thinking about the combat.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because it did get me to think about combat really differently than I thought about it in Hollow Knight.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like she is, like she can move around the arenas with a lot more skill and grace.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if I was just given the same tool set, I would have just played like the knight.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that really locks you out of a lot of what's great about Hornet.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because and so I I really like the fact that they force you to use it because it does, I think it forces you to think about Hornet different.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also think it feels fucking great once you can do like pretty good parkour with the diagonal dash.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it feels so flowy and good in a way that the regular pogo, because the regular pogo is precise, but it's just not as elegant.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And her little dash, there's so much fluidity and elegance to it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get it right.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a way to like the the easiest way that I found was just get really close to your target before you dash.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you're so close you can't miss it.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: So like that, but even figuring that out made me feel very cool.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I like it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I also do love the crests because the crests change the entire moveset.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like every every attack, like the sprint attack is different, the up attack is different.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like the idea that you can kind of buy into these totally different movesets uh with the crests.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I really like that a lot.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you can swap them out, like you can have this one for exploration and this one for combat.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's uh yeah, I think that's a really fun approach.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes Hornet feel a lot more dynamic, like she's capable of a lot more.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: She's capable of a lot more flexibility.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I I that's something that I really enjoy.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do you think about um how how are you finding the world so far?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like the secrets and the exploration and like how things loop back on each other.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you finding the world design?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are you getting lost a lot?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you know where you're going?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm not getting lost as much because I I don't know if this is like really intentional, but I've used it a couple times where you you so before, if you don't have the map, like if for me, I need the map because my spatial awareness in like Metroidvania type games, because they're so vertical, like if I'm in an open world game like Breath of the Wild, I know where I'm going most of the time.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can kind of recognize landmarks.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: In Metroidvania's, for some reason, something about like these 2D games, I have zero spatial awareness at all.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: I need the map, or I will never find where I'm going.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so I found out that if you just enter a new area that you don't have the map for, and then you go back to a fast travel point, go back to the main hub area, the um bug, what's it called?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Bug rock, whatever, whatever we want to call it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um the map got that that's what it's called.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the map lady, dude, lady, chakra, chaka, lady, chakra?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think she's a girl.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is just there, and you can just buy the map as soon as you get into the area.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can literally like go into the area you don't have a map for, immediately leave, and then go and buy the map.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I've abused that a couple times because I'm like, I don't want to go into a place without a map, get lost, not find the map person, and then be frustrated and lose my rosaries because I'm stupid.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I feel like I'm not getting lost very much, which is good, but I also feel like that's kind of abusable.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Where in like Hollow Knight, you had to actually go and find the map guy because he was never anywhere else except for in the caverns.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Unless you like finish the area and he moves on, then you can go and buy the map later.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that that's my take on like the map thing.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's just kind of like a weird, I don't I don't know if I'd call it an exploit.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's just kind of it makes me feel lazy.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me feel like I can exploit the map system a little bit.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Seth, what about you?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: How how are you finding the map or the the world?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I don't necessarily disagree.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because there's definitely been times when like I walk to a new area and I'm just like, I don't know where I'm going.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have really I have just terrible spatial awareness in general.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I cannot navigate by map, I think, at all in even real life.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know road names, I don't know place names.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know place names, but I don't know road names.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So people around me will be like, oh yeah, you just take like I-20 for like a couple miles, and then you turn right on like South Horse Road, and I'm like, I have no idea what either of those roads are.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And my girlfriend makes fun of me because I have like a path I drive to work, and if you were to put me like one road off that path I drive to work, I wouldn't know where I was.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: In my ho in like in my town, uh that I you know drive through every day.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I only have like arterial paths in my head.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's only like so many main paths, and if I'm somewhere that's not on a main path, I can only navigate back to a main path and then know where I'm going.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like my brain doesn't fill in the in-between roads.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it is frustrating for me when I don't have a map in Hollow Knight because then I'm I literally have no idea where I am.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have to like put actual serious mental brain power into like thinking back to like where I had to go.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm always the kind of person, no matter the game, I'm like, I need a map.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna work without it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say that there's a few areas in Silksong where you can't just go back to rock bottom and talk to the map lady, but I I'll also just kind of like run through a whole area because I'm like, I'll probably find the map lady before I die, and I've probably only died like once without finding her, so I d it's never usually like that big of a deal for me.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love Metroidvania's, but I'm really bad at them.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: So like I will die in the stupidest ways possible, like, and I will die on my way back to get my like cocoon because I'm just like I will just like slip off an edge, hit an enemy, hit a rock, hit a spike, and then I respawn and there's an enemy, and I I just die.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And this happens often.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just like, if I can get a map without having to try, I'm just gonna do it because I know I'm bad at the game.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel actually, um, I've been hearing a lot of people talk about how hard it is, and I actually don't I don't know, like I maybe I haven't hit the places where people are really complaining about, but I don't actually feel like it's any harder than Hollow Knight so far.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I would agree.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot of areas that are a little bit more punishing.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like some and like there's a there are a lot more enemies that do like two hearts of damage instead of one, yeah, which can really suck at times, especially if you get juggled in like a really tight space.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't feel like as a whole, I actually find the enemies a little bit easier to read in a lot of situations.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that I I would definitely disagree with that on is this game I feel has a lot more flying enemies just all over the place.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that wouldn't be a problem except for the fact of like flying enemies are really obnoxious, just like in general.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um this game doesn't like certainly doesn't make them any easier.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're just obnoxious to deal with like a hundred percent of the time.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I spend a lot of the game just trying to figure out like, okay, I need to navigate back to my cocoon, but there's a flying enemy in the way.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or like I have a run back to a boss, and I want to talk, I want to do a whole section on runbacks because it's one of the very few like legitimate complaints I have in the game.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is that some of the run back sections are just like, God, what are we doing here?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like what?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any in act one that you found bad?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do I have any?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: There's one in act one that I can think of that I found bad.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is that where you have to do the parkour over and over again?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's the one I rage quit on because I I think I I lost my rosaries there um twice, uh, which was very, very frustrating just because the parkour.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like because I would get frustrated with the boss, and then I'm like, oh, I want to get there as quickly as possible.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just like rush through the parkour, and then I don't defeat any of the enemies on the way, and I die to the parkour because of the enemies.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's my own fault.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: It is 110% my fault.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: I will own that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: I got impatient, um, but I would like die to the parkour, and then I would die to the boss, and I would die to the parkour, die to the boss.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: And but it's like I just I think putting that much parkour in between you and a boss, especially because like a separate gripe for me is that a lot of the bosses so far seem to not be actually bosses, but just like, oh, here's like five waves of enemies that are like in this area, and I cannot fucking stand that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me so I don't like it.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like it at all.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's bad.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: I liked it the first time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: I liked it the first time, and then it's just like, oh no, this combination of enemies is just straight up bullshit, and I'm angry about it.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know, but again, I'm bad at these games.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: I I fully accept that it's probably just because I'm bad, but uh I I I actually do not like that they've replaced a lot of like interesting, unique, just like single bosses with just like wave enemies.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I think they're supposed to be more just like a minor encounter, like it's not supposed to be like a full-scale boss fight.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just supposed to I wonder if I don't think those are counted.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Are are those counted in because I think they said there's like 50 or 60 bosses.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if those are counted in that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: They're just like boss areas, they feel boss adjacent to me.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you can't and you can't move past that area until you've done that fight.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it function, I mean, yeah, I get how it functions as a boss fight.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: I like those because I feel like it acquaints me with all of the different types of enemies in a really fast way.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so then what I do is I can just skip them the rest of my exploration without feeling like I'm missing out on an interesting encounter.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, that's what it does.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, I encountered here.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now if I want to like jump over them and not fuck with them in the rest of my exploration, I don't feel like I'm, you know, like I don't like the lizard guy, the guys with the uh I think they're in gray more or something like that, with the pitchforks.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're like tall, like centipede guys with the pitchforks.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So those are really fucking annoying.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: They are.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if it would have, if it would have just been out in the world, I probably would have skipped those every time I came in contact with them.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think another thing that makes me want to skip enemies more in Silksong is I think the enemies are more hard.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hardy.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like they just take more hits to kill more often.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think so, yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so and so I am a lot more apt to skip overworld enemies than to fight with them because of because I'm knowing that I'm like committing, I'm like committing to this thing that I can lose health because of the amount of time the fight's gonna take.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but I like those little boss arenas because it forces me to interact with them.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just kind of, you know, most of the time I just even the little ones, I'm starting to just like zip, zip around uh more often.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really attack things unless I'm needing rosaries for something.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I'll be more intentional about kind of attacking everything that comes my way.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: But other than that, I've been really elusive, I guess.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Seth, we were mentioning run backs before, and I think you had one that you ran into.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, I don't wanna there's did you guys get to the ant area that has like all the red area that has like all the ant enemies?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's like uh what's it called?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um there was one that was like it's like Hunter's Haven or something like that.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's the that's the one with the boss that I'm talking about, like the parkour area and like that.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's the really long hallway before you get to the hunter's yes, Hunter's March.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Hunter's March is what that's what it is.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one that I was complaining about.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that one's atrocious.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I so I had a conversation with a coworker about this because he's he's very uh big gamer too.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's played more silksong than I have.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um our conversation that we had was that I think the game could do with a few more bench placements.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Also, however, I think really the problem is that Elden Ring was far too generous with its grace playing placements, and we've all gotten a little too comfortable with like no boss runbacks.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's a save checkpoint every like five minutes.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think like in Hollow Knight, it feels like there weren't necessarily more benches, but there were more shortcuts like readily available, even like there were a few, like having just recently played it, especially towards the end, where I'm like, I just get to an area and then I immediately unlock like two shortcuts, and I'm like, Well, like, I don't these are stupid, I don't need these.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then I get to the boss, and all of a sudden, those shortcuts make a lot of sense.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh no, wait, oh, those were actually really good.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I think I don't even think that it's missing benches because I feel like there's a lot of benches.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like that I have to pay for all of them, but like um I there are a lot of benches.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: I just feel like there aren't enough good shortcuts in some areas.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like we could do with a couple better shortcuts.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think Hunter's March, it would the intention was to be horrible.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because it's just a long tube.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just a long tube that you have to go through, and there's no other like even if you look at it on the map, it's basically just a straw stuck in the middle of a map.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I think like that's the point of that one, was just to be awful.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm finding that most of like the boss encounter I'm on right now, which is so far my least favorite boss in either games, and I fucking hate it, and I fucking hate this game, is the sweat sweaty beast.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: What is it called?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: The sweetly beastfly.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: The I I think it's called the Savage Beast Fly.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Savage Beast.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Savage Beast Fly, that sounds right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so maybe the first 10 times doing that boss, it had an annoying boss run back.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: But now that I've done it 30 times, I can do it with my eyes closed.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not because it's not a bad boss run back, it's because I've done it 30 times because I can't kill the boss.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, other than that, I don't know.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've been finding I don't mind having to pay for the benches.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think because of that, I do engage with the enemies a lot more because I need to.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So like I will get to a new area, discover new enemies, and then kill them.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think I don't know that there's something I think uh trying to get me to engage with the world a little bit more than if the bench was free and I could just sit down.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't mind paying for it.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think the rosary station, I think it's first of all, it's hilarious that they're called rosaries.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh eventually we're gonna do video games and religion, and this is definitely going in that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: This is definitely gonna go in there 100%.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is definitely going in there.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that you pay with rosaries.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh you can you can um I think the the mechanic of being able to save your rosaries and and little uh necklaces is interesting and kind of annoying too.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's a I think that I think the reason I think it's annoying is because it feels like the game is trying to justify his harshness by being like, well, if you want to keep your rosaries, you can.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna fuck you up as much as we want, but like if you want to keep them, you can.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to pay 80 to keep 60, then yeah, go for it.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, this is expensive.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a specific section in the game where I like farmed some rosaries.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing that was nice there is they had like I could tell it was a section of the game designed to farm some rosaries, because they had like a big long boss gauntlet from uh from a bench.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Not a boss gauntlet, they had an enemy gauntlet from the bench.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: They had like five or six enemies.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you killed them all, you would get like sixty to eighty rosary.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I forget exactly how many.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the end of that, they had just out in the middle of nowhere, one of those stations where you could turn your razories into a necklace.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, Oh, the intent here is you kill all these and I think it's in Graymore.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um Sure.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, no, no, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, no, I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think you you sit in the bench at the halfway home, and I think it's you you run out the right side, you're in sort of like a little tunnel-y area, you kill all the enemies, you pop out on the other side, it has the rosary thing.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it lets you like farm it up a little bit, and then just be like, okay, I'm gonna hold on to these for later.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um which I think it's just cool.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like mechanically, it's an interesting, like, hey, this is a difficult game, but here's a sort of like concession in a way.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, actually, I I didn't think about that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that specifically actually is interesting because like, so there's I don't know if there are bigger ones, but so far I've come across ones that hold 30 and 60.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know if there's one in between those, but the one that holds 60, because I think most uh like fast travel spots are six.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the fast travel spots that are 60 or the benches that are 60?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: They're all like I don't know, between 50 and 60.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the benches are cheaper and the fast travel is more expensive.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because there I ran into a spot where there was like the bench, the fast travel, and the map within like a very close proximity to each other, and I just did not have the rosaries um because I went and bought a simple key, um, which was 500 Rose or which I I wasted that.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was a waste.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just uh it in in in rock bottom, if you go up and to the left, um like coming in from like the moss haven or whatever, and then like you can't actually go through that area until you get some upgrades, I think.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like I got locked out of it, and I'm like, oh, well, there's a really terrible early waste of the simple key.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I was doing something clever, and it turns out I was just an idiot.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but whole uh my point is getting the rosaries in that, so if you get like the 60, that's pretty much if you have that in your inventory, a guaranteed bench or a guaranteed fast travel spot or almost a guaranteed map, which is actually a really good use for them that I didn't really consider until now.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because until now I was kind of on the side of this kind of feels pointless.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if I have to convert them myself, if I find them in the wild, that's fine, I'll keep them until I need them.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: But converting them because the conversion rate's kind of terrible.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of thought it was just bad.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: But in the instance where you have a farmable spot where you can just do that and then just hold on to them for later and you'll never want for rosaries if if there is a bench that you need, uh I guess that's kind of a good way to use them.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, how how do you feel?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, go.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say if I have one other complaint just to make because it's that like holy cow, I never have any rosaries.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many things to spend rosaries on, and like you just don't get that many.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I don't like how why you have to pay for every freaking bench, because it's like I I'm I'm always low because I have to pay for all the friggin' benches.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like this sucks.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm broke.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it's like an intentional thing because it I like I'm not joking.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I to this point, I still like don't have enough rosaries.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I run into a shop, I'm like, okay, like I guess if I want to get that thing, I'm gonna have to farm up some rosaries, which is like not a problem because honestly, like the farming is kind of fun in the game, too.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it is a little like, oh geez, man, like okay, time to know.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I just want to make some progress, I don't want to have to go back and fight these mobs for the upteenth time.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, and I think the thing is there's nothing that's required that's locked behind like having a lot of rosary.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I it comes with a little concession for me because I'm like, okay, when I feel like it, I can throw on a podcast, throw on a YouTube video, and like go to that spot where you could just farm like 70 or 80 rosary and run, run through, kill all the enemies, save, quit, load back in, sends me back to the bench, and just run it again, like I don't know, Dark Souls 3 covenant style farming.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're just like, all right, everybody, let's load it back up.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm doing for the next couple hours.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: How how much of Silksong's design do you think comes as a response to critiques that people had about Hollow Knight?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, like I think one of the things that people talk about uh as a criticism of Hollow Knight is like early on you don't feel like your exploration is really motivated.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas like you get quests very early in Silksong, and you get the your main quest very early.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like in Hollow Knight, you can play like 10 hours before you get the main quest.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: But in Silksong, getting the main quest is like one of the first things that you get, and then you kind of learn that there are specific goals and a checklist and things like that.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it feels like that might have been done out of a response to the criticism that Hollow Knight got for being so open in his early couple hours.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys think that there are other examples of maybe like uh design choices that were made maybe as a response to what people were were not connecting with in Hollow Knight?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if the crest system is kind of in response to that as well, or if it's just an evolution of the notch system.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because it's uh I think we mentioned this before, how it's like you get to build different loadouts based on what crest you have.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I wonder if because I did feel very limited by the notch system in Hollow Knight, where it's like, okay, I have like six notches, but these ones cost three, these ones cost three, like uh these ones cost two, but this is one.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like I always felt like I never had enough to do what I wanted to do with my build.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I did have like a okay, here's a boss build, here's an exploration build.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that maybe that was intentional in Hollow Knight, but this one feels more like okay, you you have your different loadouts, but it's in, but it's a little bit more um, it's almost like a save loadout because you just switch between the crest and it's like, okay, I'm gonna use this one as my exploration one.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to like fiddle around with the loadout, I just hit a button and it's done.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's there.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Here's this build.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then you have like the reaper for this build, and you have the traveler for this build.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I wonder if that was in response to maybe that frustration.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if maybe that's maybe just a me frustration, because I also didn't play Hollow Knight on release, and that was actually uh I was wondering if either of you did, because I wasn't there, and so I don't know if because people were complaining about difficulty and this and that, and I don't know if Hollow Knight got that initially as well, um, because I only played years later.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think I played Hollow Knight fairly close to release, but I don't remember a lot of the like commentary around it at the time.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I played I played Hollow Knight like 2022, so it there it was already I think Silksong was already announced by the time I played Hollow Knight.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I started it during COVID, so I started somewhere mid 2020 is when I did my first Hollow Knight playthrough.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I was kind of late to the train, but it was like just one of those things that was on sale for five bucks and I picked it up and yeah.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys feel like you are piecing together the lore?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't understand what's going on at all.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like I will get I feel like the poems are very cryptic, which I'm not complaining about.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like Mossbag or someone else will make the video eventually.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll just wait for that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like I'll come across the poem, I'll read it, it'll say something about like, you know, the breath of the pale one face east while his feet get cold and the sword was drawn or whatever.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the level of crypticness that the poems are at.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll not think about them.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then like the characters seem to have like there seems to be a difference between like the very immediate needs of the characters and the like kind of like larger relationship with Hornet and the Citadel.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, like those two things, I don't know how connected they are that much.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole pilgrimage thing, what the Citadel's trying to accomplish, why Hornet was taken, who Leck is, like all of that stuff I feel like is largely gibberish to me.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like that guy that sings, that's always singing at doors.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: He's so sick.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I like them I like the map woman too.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like beyond that, like do you guys feel like you understand narratively what's going on?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I understand better than I did Hollow Knight.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um like a lot.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: I feel I feel like and I feel like just because like Hornet speaks in conversation, yeah, um, I feel like there's a lot more back and forth.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there's a lot more room for things to be explained because Hornet's kind of asking questions along the way as well.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually feel like I understand the story pretty well or as well as I could, whereas I didn't understand until like genuinely the very end what the hell was going on in Hollow Knight.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I never really felt like I understood what I was doing.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I I understand, and I maybe it's because we have like the goals and the quests and whatever.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um it just feels a little bit more straightforward in that respect to me.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I I feel like I get it better.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: Seth, do you kind of feel the same way?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I will definitely say that like Hornet talking is huge.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she just like talks about so much.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually remember distinctly I was sitting there with my girlfriend.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I booted up the game for the first time.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I was reading dialogue, and I was like, why is this weird?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't realize it was dialogue because Hollow Knight, all the characters talk at you, and I was like, it sounds like it sounds like Hornet is talking back, and then I I looked closely and I saw it was like her head in the dialogue box, and then it was somebody else's head, and I was like, Rachel, my character talks in this game, and she's like, Okay.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wow.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um my god, speech.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, in 2025, yeah, and so like Hornet does have a lot to say, um, which is just like so weird coming from like Elden Ring and Hollow Knight and like Legend of Zelda.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we've had a long sort of series of really popular games.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think especially in the indie space where like the main character doesn't talk.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a very like vocal, talkative character.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's a little cryptic, and I think because she is sort of even like she doesn't know why she's she was drug here.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even like as I've progressed the story, like Hornet is sort of starting to understand like why she might have been brought here in the first place, um, you know, like what her role is gonna be in sort of like unraveling everything, why she is kind of like the person to do it.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's one of the things that I'm I'm kind of enjoying about how like Silksong is presenting itself, is it's sort of I don't I don't know if the goal is to sort of put us in Hornet's shoes as much as it is like we are experiencing the mystery alongside Hornet, and she's actually able to like give commentary to us that like she has a unique perspective and point of view, and she reveals some things about her background that I think if you're really into the Hollow Knight lore, you're gonna know some of, and some of it you're gonna recognize from the first game.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be like, Oh yeah.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is a detail about Hornet I remember from the first game, and you're some of the stuff you're gonna be like, Oh, I didn't know that, and that's stuff she just kind of like casually brings up.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a character that's really funny in act two, um, because Hornet's like talking with them, and they're like, You're more than you seem, and Hornet's like, You're also more than you seem, you're also full of shit.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You're right, but don't say anything.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they sort of have this understanding of each other, and you're just left there being like, Okay, I played the first game, so I guess there's this like dramatic irony that like I sort of know some things about Hornet.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's coming up.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's even some of that stuff that I'm still very curious about.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, the one ending in Hollow Knight is called Sealed Siblings.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you get like locked in with Hornet in for the one ending.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, even knowing that, right?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we don't know a lot of details about like who Hornet is or where she came from.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that the ending is called Sealed Siblings, and like going back and thinking about all the lore of Hollow Knight means that there's like some connection there, even though we're not in Hollow Nest for you know this game, there's still like interesting character connections to explore there, and like what does that mean for the the greater implication for the world?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm really enjoying how it like slowly pieces itself together.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, do do do you guys know if this is a prequel or a sequel to Hollow Knight?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: I do not know.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: I was wondering if it was apparent to anyone else because I have no idea.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: I like to imagine it as a prequel, but I don't know.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I have no idea.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I seem to remember somebody saying a long time ago that it was a prequel, but I I'm playing through the game and I still don't know.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's really not clear to me if this is a prequel or a sequel.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the only reason I say prequel, and this is like, you know, like I guess spoilers for anyone who hasn't played it, but like act one, you get a couple abilities, and like the first couple abilities you get, you get kind of like the spear dash, and then you get the kind of like cluster ability where you like attack in an area.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: And those are both moves that Hornet uses against you in Hollow Knight.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so the fact that you don't have those, I mean, she mentions that her power is diminished because of like the trip when they attacked or whatever, but like the fact that she like gains these abilities from the weavers or whatever's happening in this game makes me feel like it's a prequel because it makes me feel like she's getting her entire arsenal that she had when we fought her in Hollow Knight.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that that's my own that's literally all I have on that point.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's just my theory.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Dempsey, as a very vibes-based person, um, we kind of talked about vibes a little bit, but do you prefer the vibes of Silksong so far, or do you kind of prefer the vibes of Hollow Knight?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: So City of Tears is one of my favorite, like specifically when they're sitting on the bench watching the rain outside of one of the buildings.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's one of my favorite screens in any video game ever.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, like specifically that moment I think is so good.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there doesn't seem to be that sense of, and I think you sit on it at one time.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this might be a piece of fan art.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: But do you sit on it with Quarrel, the other guy, at some point?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like he or he's on a bench, maybe you can't sit on, but he's on a bench.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: I do sit on a bench with him at some point, I think.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it sounds funny.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: So so um, like that is just and then and I love the City of Tears song.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the best, my favorite song on the Hollow Knight soundtrack.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that vibe.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing that Silksong does really good.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So my favorite parts of Silksong are any elements with vegetation.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it does lushness and the color green way better than it does anything else.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: It does so well.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like all the industrial stuff and like the lava and stuff like that is fine.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like the when you like the moss place that you start or the far fields or whatever, like all of those places with vegetation, um, that's a really, really good vibe for me.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so those elements I really like.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like gray, like the gray moor or whatever, all those places kind of just feel like places to get through.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not really, I'm not really like a a graveyard noir kind of person.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So those aren't as appealing to me.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I do like when it feels like there's something like natural and alive about it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's so far been my favorite.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Also, the music is great, like every single location has such wonderful music consistently.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love the theme that music plays throughout the whole.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's gonna build up to anything with the rest of the story.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like like the bells seem important, and so maybe it like the music as a theme will continue.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think um the music and the the music is how you pet your dog or your beast or whatever.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: So like you can't pet him directly, but if you hit the bells uh above him, he'll like do little circles and things like that to show that he's happy.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, which I I think is very fun.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so I like I think it I think it gets the vibes.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: It also hornet has a goal in the way that the Hollow Knight never did.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so it feels a lot more like a structured adventure, like it feels more like Lord of the Rings or like there's an epic quest to go on, which like it feels a little bit more, like it feels less eldritch horror and more like fantasy adventure, I guess.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hollow Knight felt very like Hollow Knight felt very like Eldritch horror, but I think Silksong so far feels very adventurous.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: She she's a lot, she seems to have a lot more like uh like she makes friends and people that she likes more, and like she seems to be polite to people, and she recognized when someone's willing to help her, um, and she appreciates that help and asks for clarification on things and things like that.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so it feels a lot more questy, and so it feels like more adventurous and fun than Hall and I did.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: So in in those ways, I think the I I think the vibe is really I think it's really good.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's fair.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that's actually um that kind of brings me to because I was talking about how it feels like Metroid versus Super Metroid before, in the ways that like I agree with you in like just in polish in general.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um like the areas with greenery, I 100% agree.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like those look amazing and those are my favorite areas.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: Everything else is kind of just gray, but even even like the lava area, like the more industrial era, it's like it's something that I don't really feel like I saw in Hollow Knight.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: It just looks it looks more lived in and it looks it's just like an interesting thing that kind of like gives um while there's maybe not like as much lore there, it kind of feels like it's like lore within the scenery.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: It just kind of like sets the stage for like what's kind of down at the bottom below the Citadel.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I really, really love that.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of a vibe that I got when I was playing Super Metroid for the first time, like way back when.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: But it's also um like the the the maps feel a little bit better.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's easier to kind of get a hold of the maps.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that you have quest markers is like such an insane quality of life thing because I often in Dark Souls games I forget that I have quests because I don't remember every single NPC that I've ever crossed paths with.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that uh I think FromSoft needs to take a couple Qs for their next game and maybe add some quest markers because it's not something that I really knew that I wanted until I had them in Silksong.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like it's such a crazy little quality of life upgrade that they didn't have to give us.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like they could have just left it like Hollow Knight, and I don't think anyone would have cared because that's what they expected.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: But it's the little thing that again, it kind of feels like Hollow Knight was the prototype.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was like a little sluggish, it was a little slower, um, it was a little less polished in these ways.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: She can run.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the running is not just dashing.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like the movement is so much better, the movement's better, the fighting feels better, the map is better, the like give having quest markers.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's everything feels just like a little bit more polished and a little more put together.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it feels like this is the game that they wanted to make when they were making Hollow Knight, but just like didn't quite have all the pieces together.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to diminish Hollow Knight in any way because I really, really love that game, but this is just like it's such a noticeable step up in quality that I think I'm enjoying it a lot more from just like an aesthetic standpoint, just like looking at it and being like, oh, this feels like a proper game.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like this doesn't just feel like a little indie game.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think it's I think what you're saying is really interesting.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so there's this idea that the sequels can be better, but they're never gonna be as important that I think is is interesting.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: So like this is something like with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think Breath of the Wild is a more important video game to video games.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think Tears of the Kingdom is like a better play uh experience for the players.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a lot of those where like the first one, it doesn't matter if the second one's better, the first one's gonna be more impactful for like what it means to video games.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's a little bit of that that like I obviously silk songs is it crashed a bunch of servers, it's doing very well, it's being reviewed very well, but like it's not going to be as important as Hollow Knight was, which I think there's some like, I don't know, a little bit of irony or sadness in that where like even if even if it does everything that Hollow did but better, just Hollow Knight itself was such an important game that this like silksong will always kind of, I don't know, be a like a continuation of Hollow Knight, you know, I guess.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like almost a little differently about that, just because of like the silk posting and how that became such a cultural thing, where it's like on Reddit, the Silksong subreddit was just like the depths of depravity.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just like people went insane in there, people went hollow in there.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's like sure.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that almost like because of that, and the fact that we got a release date and it dropped two weeks later, just out of absolutely out of nowhere, after not hearing anything for years.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um I almost feel like the cultural um impact, just based on what the community kind of did to themselves during like between Hollow Knight and Silksong, for those years they just kind of went stir crazy.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: I almost feel like because the anticipation was so high, and they basically shadow dropped it, I almost feel like this game is gonna be more important in the long run just because of that little cultural piece.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's so it's it's interesting to have that different uh viewpoint of that.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Makes sense to me.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what are you so we're not done, neither of us are done yet.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: So as you are playing, I think we're about time.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's leave off with what are you hoping to like what are you hoping the game does so far uh that you want to keep seeing more of as you move forward?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go first.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it does uh continues to do interesting things with music.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love uh I love the the uh the amount that music plays of the aesthetics.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: I like the having little bells.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the benches have these big huge bells that ding, and I don't know what that's about.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's explained, maybe it's not, but like that's a cool set piece little thing.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I I hope that thematically there continues to be more um about music.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: I also is she a spider?
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what she is?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's implied, kind of, maybe.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I don't know.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard it's hard to tell.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: We know that from Hollow Knight.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: She's uh she's a weaver.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like her her mom is uh one of the the weavers.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Super what that means.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's with the dreams, right?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: She's her she's related to the whole like dream thing in the games.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's oh, that's her mom.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: I missed that apparently.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, cool.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so so that's what I'm I'm I'm hoping for more uh for more music stuff.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Brett, is there anything that you're hoping for as you play the rest of the game?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna stay in typical um lore fashion.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um I really like the visual set building and the visual lore building that's going on.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think every area so far has its own little distinct story to tell, with like just the enemies, the set pieces, kind of what's happening below the citadel, and not having been to the citadel, like I don't, you know, obviously I can only say so much.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think each area has had something very specific to say about the state of the world that we're in and the area of the world.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope that that visual storytelling continues through the rest of the game.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I hope it gets better, and I feel like once we get to the Citadel, it's gonna like there's gonna be kind of like maybe an aha moment or just something really cool.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I really hope that like I hope my expectations are met there.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that's that's pretty much it.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is like aesthetically, I think this game is like incredible.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I also the 2D art style is like it's just so I I think it's beautifully made, like I think it's incredibly done.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like everything in the game is basically hand painted in Photoshop, and I think that's it just brings such a really cool quality to it that um I just like so far I'm not let down by what I've played, and I'm really excited to kind of just like experience more of the world, I guess.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what about you, Seth?
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, being a little bit further than you guys, um I'm just excited to like see where it goes.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: The side quest system has been like a ton of fun.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: It the game feels great, just like in every way.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um like I'm always excited to go back and play more.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: But like one of the really cool things about like the side quest, and I feel like having that main quest set up, I don't feel bad like doing a side quest and being like, okay, I can put the game down for the night because like I accomplished something concrete.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: Versus like sometimes when I would play um Hollow Knight or like when you play Elden Ring, like the only time that you get like a concrete like stopping point is like new area, uh beat a boss.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this gives you like those little micro goals that feel good to just be able to be like, oh, okay, like I don't have to get all of this done right now.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I d I don't know.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to like collect enough rosaries to like donate to the town so that they for whatever reason, right?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that feels good and everything like that.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: Do you guys think that this game has met, or I mean obviously we're not done, so we can't say, but do you think the game has so far met, um exceeded, or maybe like didn't meet expectations that you had for it?
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think at some point I became very agnostic to my expectations about this game.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that I had I like it was too fun to think about, and like I realized that the version of the game that was in my head was really disconnected to the version of the game that would have made sense to make.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I think like, regardless of what I expected, my current experience is very fun, it's very good, it's very beautiful.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love all the particle effects, and I think there's a lot more depth in the environments too.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh Hollow Knight sometimes can feel the like the back, like the furthest element was kind of close to you, but in this, it feels like the furthest element is very uh far away from you a lot of times.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just little things like depth of feel, they're like more layers than usual, or more effects between the layers and things like that.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all like pretty much everything that they could have done, I think they've done incredibly well.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm I'm very, very happy with it.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: So okay.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a podcast.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: Katie usually does the outro, but she's gone, so I have to do it now.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thanks for listening.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you have opinions about uh either breakfast food, autism, or Holland Silk Songs, uh make sure to uh make sure to get us an email.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: The email's in the show notes.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's it.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh call us on TikTok.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, not Blue Sky, TikTok.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes we are Instagram.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: We do have a blue sky account.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: It just I just don't use it that much.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: But we're on TikTok.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're on Instagram.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: We I mean if you send me a tweet on Blue Sky, I'll see it.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that'd be great.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then and we're on YouTube now.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Full episodes on YouTube.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: That uh it's through the RSS feed, so you should be able to if you listen to podcasts, or if someone I don't know, if you listen to this anyways, you already have a place you listen to podcasts.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I telling you anyways?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having a uh good episode.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good night.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye, bye.