Latest / thefashionroundtable / The Brutal Truth About Fashion PR: Cost, Influencers & Bad Press | Liz Osho & Njideka Akabogu

Transcript

The Brutal Truth About Fashion PR: Cost, Influencers & Bad Press | Liz Osho & Njideka Akabogu · thefashionroundtable

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This episode is brought to you by Flutterwave.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Check out Flutterwave.com.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: I am Gwemi, Olater Oleg Beggi, and this is the Fashion Roundtable.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: In fashion, talent might get you noticed, but perception determines whether people remember you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Behind every designer making headlines, every celebrity becoming a fashion moment, and every brand suddenly becoming the one to watch is a PR strategy.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Today, we're going behind the scenes with two women who understand how to shape narratives, manage reputations, and make people pay attention.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Njideka Akabu of BHM Group and Elizabeth Oshaw of Sow Me Solutions.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Ladies, welcome to the Fashion Roundtable.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to have you guys here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited about this episode because I have so many questions.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Trust me, I have so many questions.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: So for people who hear PR, the word or words, PR, and think it's just press releases, it's just sending emails.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Can you explain to us what a senior PR consultant does?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or you don't even have to be senior.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: What do PR consultants actually do?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I think, and I have that problem with even a lot of PR practitioners, where when you speak to someone, the first thing they push to you is a press release, right?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: We always say that PR as a profession has very bad PR because a lot of people don't get what we do, right?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in a nutshell is reputation management.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's and it's a lot that goes into it, right?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I like to say we are strategic advisors.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Press release is just one output, like one of the many, many things, right?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's maybe the least thing, right, that we do.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's strategic advisory for whether it's the C-suite, right?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or for brands and organizations, it's a key role.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's and it's not just a support function for brands, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like very integral to the work that a lot of people do.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the first things that I try to understand with brands, organizations, or people that we work with is your business objectives.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So before I'm even like coming up with a PR strategy or PR objectives, I need to make sure that I understand what you do as a brand, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: To be able to advise you better.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's positioning you, making sure that you are your messages out there in the right format and that you're connecting with the people that actually matter to the brand that you're building or the organization that you're running.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thank you for breaking that down.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I have a question for you, Liz.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do brands or some brands spend, say, millions on, let's say, an event, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And nobody talks about it.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: While something small happens, by the way, sorry, and it becomes a story everyone is discussing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I like the fact that you're saying story because that's essentially what we do as you know, publicists, PR professionals.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: We are also storytellers, you know, and so we're merging with brands to tell their story.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And no matter how much you've spent, if you haven't given people a reason to care, then they're not gonna care.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so it's um not just about spending money because you can have all of the money and throw it at the thing, but it's about the sentiments, it's about making sure that people have bought into it, it's about community, it's about them feeling a sense of belonging.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all of that matters so much more than the money you throw at it.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you do all of that and throw money at it, then of course you have, you know, the super wild virality.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: But you can't um expect to just spend money alone and you know, people will care.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: You have to give them a reason to care.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes, you know, you actually have a story there, but because you haven't worked with a professional to uncover what that story is, then it's not landing, you know, the messaging is just wrong.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I like that you use the word virality because I wanted to find out can you manufacture virality?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it possible or is it possible to predict?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we with Elon Musk's um algorithm, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram, everything is changing daily.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't promise anyone virality, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for you to say that you put out this content, it's going to trend because also attention span, algorithm, it's changing every day, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what we can do is to say how can you know you there are like if you're cooking a dish, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know the different ingredients that you need, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: You have a content that has viral potential because you know storytelling, you know what people care about, you know what's likely to, right?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't guarantee that if you put this out, it's going to go viral.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: It has like the potential to do this.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you understand the platforms, if the timing is right, there are a lot of factors that go into stories going viral, right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important that you actually even understand the platforms, the channels that you want to use, the kind of stories that people care about, and what you want to say, how you want to say it, all of that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't I don't promise anyone virality.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I tell my clients that I can't guarantee this, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I can make this, I know what people care about.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I can make the story, I can write this story or make this news in a way that whether it's like whatever media platform or whatever influencers would be happy to post it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So people would care about it.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: You have both worked with so many prominent brands.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know that you've worked with the Real Housewives of Lagos, you've worked with Nigerian Idol, you've worked with so many brands.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You've also worked with so many brands.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: I remember Disney and so many of them.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: My question is: do brands sometimes confuse publicity with relevance?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: So because they have all this publicity, is it are they relevant?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's where you know giving people a reason to care is important because you can actually be um, there can be a lot of noise, but then it's fluff, you know?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's all it's about substance.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that if there's no substance behind what you're flogging, for lack of a better word, then it's just empty noise and people are just making noise.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, like we talked earlier, you can throw money at it and bring all the influencers, have the big event, but then what next?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Pay all the blogs.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, put pay all the blogs and you can't pay and be everywhere.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: But um it's important that you're thinking about what the substance is.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I also find that, you know, in this day and age, people are doing things like throwing an event with no, you know, sustenance, no sustenance plan.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: What's the plan after?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because after that big day, people are gonna post and go, thank you, get ready with me.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: But what next?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how do you keep the conversations going?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that's really important in terms of the substance um for um longevity and for, you know, um relevance, like you said.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Will you say it is then one of the biggest mistakes that brands make when they approach PR agencies?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no sustenance plan.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's no, you know, what other mistakes do they make?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, lots of mistakes.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the key ones is people coming and thinking that um PR has to be like short term.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants it and wants it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: They want to go viral now, they want to get all the publicity and all the buy-ins and whatnot at the moment.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: We always say that it's long term.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like Liz was saying, there needs to be, it's it's a sustained effort, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: You you need to even uh define what your objectives is.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: What are you trying to achieve with this?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I get that there are brands who come and say, Oh, for the sake of I'm launching something and that's what I want, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just want publicity around this.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to invite people to my lunch and that's it.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the danger there is that people attend your events, people attend this launch and then they move on.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, what's next, right?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very important that you understand that for you to get to where some of the big brands that maybe you as a smaller brand starting out and you admire, um, you need to actually be able to invest in Pure long term.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's expensive.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to it's you don't have to go to BHM, you don't have to go to Sony, you don't have to go to Red Recall, whatnot, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: There, there I I think we live in an age where you can get the sashed version of literally everything.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But it's but it's a good way to put it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's very important that whether you have an in-house person or whether you're doing it yourself, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: That you are actually telling your story consistently in a way that resonates with the people you're trying to target with your branding.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just piggyback off that to you know kind of talk about some of the things that people um get wrong when they come when they approach PR.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think, first of all, they think we're magicians.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so they want like um everything solved now.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And also they don't actually understand the function of PR, which is that as Indijeka said, there's no guarantees.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So they expect that you're gonna come and you're gonna fix all the problems.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I like to use this terminology, which is compounds, PR compounds, and it's a slow burn.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a slow burn, meaning that you know, we can't, if you've never done PR before, get you in Vogue.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: We can't.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: We just can't.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Even Vogue was.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Even if they pay, unless they pay.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Unless they pay, and we can all pay.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Does Vogue do anything for free?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I'm not gonna be honest.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so jaded now.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm gonna be honest rather.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so jaded now that I'm sorry if I see certain brands, you know, you know, certain fashion brands, they'll put in their um IG caption, IG profile featured in Vogue.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you bid you bid.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think everyone pays.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not everybody pays.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think everyone pays.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody pays because some people do actually eventually build the relationship, yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they're in the right rooms, and you know, all it takes for you is to be in the right room, yeah, and then or have the right story or have dress the right person, you know.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then yeah, I I know that definitely a lot of people pay for the sort of coverage, but it's not everybody.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they will pick it up.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of vogue, international, you know, media and stuff, do you think that Nigerian brands are or Nigerian fashion is getting the right amount of international media attention that it deserves right now?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: So 2026, right now.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think um the exposure has definitely increased, right, and improved.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we are maybe where we need to be, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that a lot of us cling to that, oh, I want to be featured in vogue.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be featured in Harper's Vaza, whatever, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, why do you want to be featured there?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important that you kind of understand what your brand is about and see if a feature in Vogue is even what you should be chasing now, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Have you gotten the Bellanaya's first?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Have you appealed to the local media, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have you told your story in a way?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, they are never going to give us the attention that they would give what the international, the ones in Milan, the ones in New York and whatnot, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's very important that you know why you want to be featured there.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just for bragging rights?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a, I mean, a good thing, a valid reason, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But what is it doing for your brand?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: What does evoke feature even mean for your brand at the moment?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think again, defining your objectives, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And finding where your the audience, you're if you're somebody who I don't know, your target audiences mostly university students or something, right?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Your plots and or people who are based here and don't really read those publications or yeah, what does it do for your brand?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going to be featured there, just I think understand why you want to, the why of your story is very important.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that a lot of the international publications, they don't accept your paying for it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them care about depth and your story, it needs to be airtight, it needs to be something that would appeal to their audience before they even pick it up.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: From Nigeria to the world and from abroad back home.
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• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Can we get specific?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell me okay?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's two sides to this question.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: What are Nigerian designers doing right?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Some Nigerian designers when it comes to PR.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you can give examples of the ones that are doing it right, you know, in your opinion, professional opinion.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then what are they doing terribly?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to mention names for those ones.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I mean, I can tell you who I've looked after in terms of fashion PR in the past two years.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Banker Cuckoo and Lan Ray DeSilva, who've done her shows two to three years in a row now.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Tiffany Amber, um Vlisco, um, who just signed up this year, The Lady Maker, um, just to name a few.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that brands like Banker are doing justice and really, really killing it in terms of storytelling.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Banker is very authentic, and you know, every collection, I can specifically speak to Oceans, because I work that, tells a story.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I remember first of all seeing the prints and being blown away because she makes her own prints.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: She designs her.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's how she started designing prints.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: She's a textile, yes, you know, designer um by kind of her background.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, she got into um designing, you know, for clothes for people to wear.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the story was just phenomenal.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know that I got so much love approaching media just from the story that we were telling.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, Banker said to me that dolphin, dolphin is called dolphin because we used to see dolphins there.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if this is true.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: What I don't know if he's for the first time.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're hearing for the first time.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: So she was like telling us the story of why, you know, we must keep the oceans clean because dolphins, we don't see dolphins in dolphin estate anymore.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or why do you think dolphin was called dolphin?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, had to go and do the research.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: But that in itself is a story that by the time we're getting into a media parley and the media are hearing that they're like, I like the cause, yeah, you know, and she had and we came with facts and you know what Lagos State was doing with um kind of um the ban on plastics.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is fashion, but again, for a cause.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's an impact um there.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think she, you know, brands like Banker doing that very, very well, right?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Tiffany Amber has been extremely focused on community this year, you know, and we've had like the Tiffany Amber Breakfast Club.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she's done it a couple of years, but I was part of this year as a publicist and bringing women together, forming that community.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: I know that she's got a founders table happening in October.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: A founders table, a fashion brand.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so that already shows you that this is beyond come and buy, you know?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's that's excellent.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's all about community, it's all about resonance for people to feel and resonate with the brand and for it to be a lifestyle.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that that's where we're moving to now, where fashion is not just about me looking good.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'm living it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm it's a lifestyle for me, you know.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um still talking about Tiffany Amber, her gardens already is just shows you the lifestyle.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I go in there, I can't afford the clothes, but I look at everything.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, these are beautiful, you know.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it's luxe lux.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're trying to get there, you know, but I can afford the spa and I can afford the cafe, you know, and I can sit in the gardens.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that that's absolutely top tier, you know, um, and one that's really putting Nigeria on the map for a space where people can be really proud of.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of what people are not doing, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think a lot of um designers are kind of owning their story.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're not owning their story.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Could it be that there is no story?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you an example.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's some people who are like, look, I want to make money.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I want to sell clothes for buddies.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have any deep story.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know what you want from me.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just giving you an example.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want such a brand to do?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: I PRP.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And say, I want to sell clothes for baddies.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a campaign in there already.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's a campaign in there.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's also one of the things people get wrong, right?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you doesn't have to be deep.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It does exactly right.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a professional would help you.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would put it together, put it well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Someone saying my inspiration was the Holy Spirit, which is not bad, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian, I get that you can get inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if I was working, and I know this person is very good, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a PR person or a storyteller would help you put your story together better, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Dig, dig out whatever it's in there.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: The right words to say, how to say it, how to how to present yourself in interviews, and you know, so that because now we're living in a a society where we're looking for sound bites.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're looking for what's gonna, what are we gonna cut to so that people are gonna be interested?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, you are competing for attention.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: So what are we going to understand?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So a PR person will tell you how to present your brand, how to present yourself.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't be, for example, let me break it down as as plainly as possible.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be selling um premium um attire, but you are clapping your hands on Instagram and fighting.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you understand?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't work well with what you are selling.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: You get, I'll give you an example.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: There was a there was someone, I don't want to, there was someone who was I was working with for events, but she used to comment on certain gossip blogs.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And someone said to me, Isn't that so and so?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Why is she on this blog always like on every comment, like on every post?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I had to say to her, you are a premium now.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot be found putting comments in a blog that people consider dirty or ugh.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so she stopped.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a I won't call myself a PM person per se, but I I guess you understand we understand.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you myself as an example.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I've recently had twins a year ago.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I can mention that I mean Mama.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I have a four-year-old.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been, I would say, in the last six years, just been in mummy mode, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that I'm also spending more time in Africa.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm getting help and I'm getting back to myself because in the last four, five years, I'm either pregnant or trying to get pregnant or with baby, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: With like a an infant.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember saying to my mentor that, you know, I've been really lucky with PR and I'm doing all the FMCGs and I love them.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm really wondering like why Lux clients aren't like why, you know, I'm premium clients.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Premium clients, Lux.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So she was like, and without risk, because we talk real with each other, she was like, Liz, the first thing they're gonna do when they come, because I, you know, she does, she does, she's we're in the same film, they're gonna take you out and they're gonna size you up.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because the thing about it is that it's a lifestyle.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't look the part, how can you sell it?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't look the part, if you don't understand that world, you can't sell it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: You can't sell it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: You may be able to, obviously.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And this is not my thoughts, it's just the world.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the world is judgmental, and they will judge you, you know.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's I'm just kind of piggybacking what you just said.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so she said to me, Liz, they're gonna take you out, they're gonna look at you, they're gonna look at your bag, they're gonna look at your hair, they're gonna look at how it's not an excuse that I'm a mother and disheveled, you know.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like jigba.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is why they follow you to they walk you to your car.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: They want to see what you're driving, and this is why people rent cars to go to meetings.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: No shame.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Even to events.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to look the part.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you want certain brands, if you are in the influencing world, yes, and you want certain brands to work with you or invite you to things, then you must present.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: They must they should be able to look at your social media feed and see and see that this person matches what we are trying to sell.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even in terms of like my client that, you know, sells fabrics, if you're not wearing fabrics, why are we working with you?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do you get what I mean?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like we scroll down your page, it's not to be seen.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not a makeup person, it doesn't matter what the engagement rate is.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't wear makeup, how is like a makeup brand gonna collaborate with you?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so even you, when you're thinking about approaching people, because we're now in an era of also shoot your shots, shoot your shots correctly.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Look at yourself, like, okay, is there something on like is there a fit?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that kind of thing.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I get it, I get it, I get it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it is not, it's not a it's no hard feelings, is look, you have to fit what you're trying to attract, basically.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have a question though.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can a great PR strategy save a mediocre fashion brand?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's tough.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be honest now.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: If a fashion brand that you know, if you wear their outfits once or twice and it fades or it tears, or they're brands like that, you know that it's cheap and cheerful.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's cheap, cheerful, and not quality.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: And they want can great PR save such a brand?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And here is why.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think the currencies that we trade in with PR is trust, it's credibility, right?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's reputation.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You need to, it's transparency to a very large extent.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um those are very crucial issues for the profession as a whole, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there is so much that like a packaging can do.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it to get you in the blogs.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if people come in contact with your brand and it doesn't fit what your PR person is saying, it falls apart.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very important that as a brand, that whatever it is that you say, if your brand is blocks, every experience, every touch point, right, needs to fit that for PR to be.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes, we can get you in the blogs, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what people are going to eventually buy your clothes, people are eventually going to experience your brand one way or the other.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: If it doesn't match what your PR person is saying, it falls apart.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very important that and it's also why we say please carry us along.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't bring us when you finish production.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's be in the room advising you from the very start that you have this idea for a collection, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a PR present, let them be in the room, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Telling you how best to present this, what you need to do, what you don't need to do.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give us a bad product to sell.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: No amount of PR is going to save it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Would get you again because our media has become so commercialized, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: People would pay to put their brands out there, to put their names out there.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if somebody buys your clothes and it's rubbish and it tears, what's the point of the PR?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would also add to that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know that a lot of people are selling out even when the products are cracky.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I know that.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that you know some people just somehow consistently bounce back, you know, off a bad batch and find another um influencer to influence it and then they're back on it.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think I agree with you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and to further add that it actually gives us a bad reputation as well.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And quite often, as a you know, publicist, I will say no.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I will say no because I'm trying to protect my reputation and protect myself.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know that I've had in recent times media also be vetting products.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I've had situations where certain media, I'm not gonna name, are asking for NAFDAC numbers.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't just be a beauty product that is organic or whatever it is that you call yourself.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: They'll say, can we please see the NAFDAC product?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think we're getting at that time where people are, you know, woke and you know, not everything goes and asking questions.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Every girl knows that braids are a time-saving hack.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: See if you don't want to spend too much time styling your hair when you have to do something, when you have to be in front of the camera, get yourself braids and make sure it's the dancing curls from Lush Hair.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: See how we just styled it, half up, half down, and I'm ready to go.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: All right, make sure you get yours at Nigeria thelushaiafrica.com.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Has the rise of influencers made PR easier or harder?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Very interesting.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say I'm sitting on the fence of this one.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's some good, yeah, some pros, but also definitely cons.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um shall I shall I go?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say, let me start with the cons so that um we end on a positive note.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say some of the cons of influencers are that now, you know, there's no storytelling.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: People just think that once they have a BB, and no, no shade, but once they have a big brother, BBN Nigeria person, they have one million followers.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: This person is coming to the event, you know, which sometimes is even detrimental to your event.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's no brand alignment.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: That person is just being in the news for something terrible that you're now gonna be a part of, you know.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that influencers in that way, people are thinking that the numbers are all it takes.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not just about the numbers, you know, there's so many different factors um that are involved.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say that's that's that's stressful.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Also, the fact that people can just have a microphone, you know, and they just and I'm not talking about a literal microphone, but the phone is a microphone because you can just come and say whatever.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: They have an audience, they have an audience, you know, and people will listen.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I I find that as well that Nigerians as a whole, I'm sure it's worldwide, but I'm in Nigeria and I'm a Nigerian, so I see this more that we tend to flame the wrong things, you know, and we like we're kind of busybody people, we like a good gossip, and so just let it be bad news.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden they're forwarding it.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: These DMs reposted a hundred times, you know.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think because of influencers, news is spread, news spread a lot faster.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it doesn't just take for a media house, which by the way, media houses are doing much better.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Can vet stories, influencers are not trained.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're not trained journalists, they're not trained professionals, yet they are, they have some um, you know, people are listening to them, you know, they have a following.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's all really hard to guide.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I find that also, you know, there's some sort of power that they think that they have.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they think that they they some of them are very uncontrollable.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: I literally sometimes, because a client wants to work with someone, I have to work with them.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I am scared.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: I am scared.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because you don't know how this person is going to.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: They can't, I can't control them.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're gonna they're so those are really hard.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like damned if you do, damned you don't.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: I still need them.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, they're gonna amplify, and I can't take that away from them, some of them.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, imagine posting before you have before the agreed schedule time.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, those sort of like or not tweaking the guide or something like that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so they just go copy-paste and something like that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so those are all really hard.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the pros, you know, are that some of them are fantastic partners because I see it as a partnership when we're working with influencers, you know, um, some of the best events and product launches and you know, storytelling that we've done has been in partnership with um Influenza.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot take away how um crucial influencer marketing is to this space, you know.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that's all fantastic.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they show up to our events.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Our events cannot be events if people are not in the room, you know.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and some of them do it incredibly well, you know.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: I remember launching a beauty product um on cover four or five years ago, and we would not have done this if it wasn't for certain key individuals who poured their heart and soul into the storytelling, kept over period the sustainability plan following up with it, you know.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's it's yeah, it's a catch 22.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Inja Deka, what makes a person influential?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I think it's again like I've said trust a lot, right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: But do people trust you?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I follow an influencer who I really love Melissa's wardrobe.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's influential.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if Melissa says oh this um skincare product or this jacket that's whatever, I I find that I trust to a very large extent that she made MS cool.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to merge because of her.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can make her so I literally go to the UK and I'm going to MS because of Melissa, right?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is influence because I've seen how for products she doesn't like, she literally tell you, Oh, I bought this, I used it.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't work for me.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a level of authenticity and credibility that she has.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the influence is trust, it's credibility, it's people being able to know that if this person says that this brand is it, it's actually it, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I've worked with a lot of influencers that I'm looking for the influence, literally, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's okay.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know that when we were, I don't know if it was real housewise, but it was like a shop thing.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: We used a BBN influence.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, it's also a brand I wanted, but he literally got a lot of comments.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when they are just out of the house, the fan bases, I think it was in 2020.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So the fan bases wanting to gas up their favor favorites, right?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think he posted something.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we gave him a post, he posted, and the comments were plenty, but it wasn't saying anything about the actual product.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was, yes, my fave, yes, my this, but fire, fire, fire.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not convert, it's not converting for me.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we had what Showmax used to do then, like for a lot of the shows, shows and content and whatnot.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: We usually include a UTM link.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at the back end, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody's nobody clicks, they're just doing firefire.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's do you so basically it's like come, is this person going to just bring lots of engagement in terms of their hyping their faith, or is this person drawing attention to my product or my event or my link or just it's it's to cause people to take action.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: To cause people to take action, not just I want them to look at it, I want them to, like she said, click that link.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'll give an example.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: We've worked quite consistently now with um Tolani, Diary of a Kitchen Lover.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Shh, people take action.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: So this is her besties.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, hey, bestie.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: They don't play with her.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: They don't play with, they don't play with her.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you will see and cut and brands know that okay, yes, she says go to this, they go to it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, so I I I think you said it so succinctly.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's about um whether people actually trust you and whether you can inspire, you know, invoke in whatever way them to take action.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's let's change the direction of the conversation a bit.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: I had a conversation with Injideka off-camera where we're talking about celebrities now paying for features or covers for magazines, whether local or international.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think about celebrities getting, basically, they're paying to be featured on fashion platforms, not just magazines, blogs, etc., and then presenting it as organic editorial coverage?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't have any thoughts because again, I think we've said it and said it, the media has become very transactional and commercialized, right?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're trying to get yourself out, paid media is not necessarily bad.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you have to disclose?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know in some times you actually, if something is paid for, if it's an ad or whatever, you have to put ads.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: We are not that strict in Nigeria.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the ethical thing to do.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't pass off paid media's earned media, right?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean it's it's fluid really.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not against anybody who is going to say I got it, they got it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, their face is there, right?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have to do what you have to.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: If they're asking you to pay and you're looking for a way to put your brand out there, and it's right there.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: So the truth about it, because we also must say, is that you know, unlike abroad, where you literally most of the time to be on a magazine cover would have earned it, you know, and your team are working overtime to pitch.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't work like that over in this side of the world.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is very much, I would say, skewed towards a pay-for-play, you know.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And whenever we have clients, I remember I used to work for South African tourism, and you know, this was 10 years ago, and they would be like, I don't understand.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't they want to take the story?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: We have these beautiful pictures, you know.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: My my og at the top, then Holoni bless his heart, would be like, but we're coming back with content.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Tiwa Savage went, and they're like, I don't they don't care.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: They don't care, pay your money.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Pay your money, you know.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So again, I would say I second you that it's not it's not um anything to be like, it's not a bad thing, it's not anything to be ashamed of.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, we must say that media want to make money, yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and um, this is a way for them to keep their entity going as well.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, we do not have you know the mode now where abroad how media is able to pay for that magazine and pay everyone's salaries because of adverts.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so if they're not getting adverts, then they will think they will collect money from people.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, when you look at the entire infrastructure, something is wrong.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why they're asking for that magazine cover payment.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: I remember um again, we're talking off camera, and I was saying that in 2025, I worked with over 50 fashion brands, Nigerian fashion brands, creating content.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: By the time we, you know, we shot so many things for almost the full year, and it was almost a hundred videos, you know, because sometimes it could be maybe multiple videos for one brand, and some were paid, some were not paid, especially in the beginning.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: A lot in the beginning, it wasn't paid.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just went to brands that I had access to and said, Oh, I'd like to film this try-on series.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, by the end of 2025, I looked, I was like, ah, some and so blog that is known for their focus and fashion didn't carry one video.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember trying to reach out to them to say, I'm creating this content too.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, here's our marit card and stuff.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, Well, wow.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's when it dawned on me, oh, oh, oh, oh.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: The people we are posting, oh, they pay, okay.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was naive, I didn't know.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, I guess you know, you know.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I did, I mean, we did something recently.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I called them out on it, like, I shot almost a hundred and so, and your focus is this, and you did not post any one, not one.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, oh, I was like, yeah, yeah, you didn't post it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then I remember speaking to the publication, and I was like, when we're planning for season one of the show, and I was like, oh, this is what I'm trying to do.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Long form fashion um, you know, talk show.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, for cover, you have to pay so and so million.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wow, what a wow, wow, wow, wow.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is Naira and Cobra, you have to pay, you know.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, speaking of paying, so how much does it actually cost to get meaningful PR in Nigeria?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I understand that it is case by case, it can give you a range.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is case by case basis based on what the client is trying to achieve, what story they're trying to tell, the duration of the campaign, or whatever it is they're trying to do.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say I'll give you hypothetically, a fashion brand comes to you, they have a good story, they're mid-range, they're not, you know, they're not fast fashion, they're not luxe lux, then they're mid-range, whatever mid-range means to whoever, and they want to get some, they're doing well, but they would need to get their story out there.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they say we want to engage you for six months.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: How much should I know again?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on what they're trying to do.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Traditional media and non-traditional media, but give me a range and say in your pocket, have at least that's very tricky, actually.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's very tricky.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Don't give me the PR answer, girl.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's very tricky because Okay, if this sort of person comes and says I want consistent my story to be in people's faces for six months and they have 2M, is it possible?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, so give me a range.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, but again, it's it's not possible because anyway, so there is no blanket structure for this thing for me.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I won't say, but you have to look at the platforms that you want.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: What are you trying to achieve?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: You said you want to be in people's faces, right?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean being on VN polls every week or whatever?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: You look at there is a rate card for a lot of these media platforms, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: You find it.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: I you have an idea.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know they increase them from time to time, but you have an idea.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it all it all depends on when to and they also want to be in this day, they also want to be in Guardian, they also want to be in Punch, they also want to be in the telegraph.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, I must.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what what I can say is that Sue M definitely won't cut it from the case.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, not even for one week.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on where you want to be.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: We wouldn't even do one.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you wouldn't.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it doesn't it's it's there's just a lot of factors.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, but if you were there would be there would be so there are lots of layers as well.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: So there would be a cost for a retainer.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the retainer, depending on scope of work for at SOME, starts anywhere from three million is the minimum per month.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Three to five, depending, and of course beyond.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: So for that person, we depending on the scope of work, it'd be like three to five as a retainer, there's media costs.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's separate to that.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's um third-party costs.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: So third party costs would be photographer, videographer, which you definitely need, someone on retainer, if you're a fashion brand that wants to consistently tell stories.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Laura Car is about 50M that I've just said now.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm thinking.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I don't need six months.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: But that's also a that's a that's not, you know, it's it's just like a ballpark figure.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: We have to the person that's okay.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I also now can you get me in vogue?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, vogue is 9,000.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's vogue, by the way, for one point.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is it American Vogue or is it Arabian Vogue?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: UK Vogue.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, there's very there's there's tears for the Vogue.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: There is that because there's some Vogue, they're just like ah, Vogue Arabian, or is it Vogue Bulgaria?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: Which one?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is it SA Vogue?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is it GQ Vogue?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: 9K.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 9K.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's let's put it out there.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Pounds.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sterling.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the things I want people to say.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is the reason why this show exists.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of these things are shadowy.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: People don't know, people are wondering, people don't.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know that these are not necessarily down to the exact amount, but let people have an idea so they can plan that one day it'll work for them.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: All right then.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: How do you manage a client who doesn't listen to your professional advice?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know you deal with that a lot.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do you manage?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the things that we try to establish at BHM is that if you're bringing us on board, we are your partners and we want to be in the room, right?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: When you make decisions, whether it's for a film premiere or whatever, don't don't bring me in when you've shot the film.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you bring it, obviously there's nothing I can do, but our preference is always to be in the room where the decisions are being made, right?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's important that you see us as your partner.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um not just a vendor, not personal, whatever.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I see that a lot.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if if I'm your partner, I should be able to tell you that this won't work.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um you have what's an issue that might escalate to crisis, right?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: You should know that I'm there as your advisor.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know when you should say something, when you shouldn't say something.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because in PR the things you say or the things you don't say can sometimes be as powerful as the things that you say, right?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: But we work, yeah.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because human beings are inherently difficult.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: You meet a lot of diff difficult clients that would say, No, I want it my way, or whatever.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times it's I can't work with you if you don't take my advice.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: You don't think there is a reason you brought me on board.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: You should be able to trust that I know what I'm doing, right?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've done this for what how many years now?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: If I tell you do this like this, it's because there it's an informed decision, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we try as much as possible.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: We've been lucky that a lot of the clients that we work with, I think we have access to the guys at the very, very top.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if there is a middle manager somewhere who is being extremely difficult, and you have to sometimes go over them.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um that might happen.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: We try not to, but yeah.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just being putting your feet down and saying, see, I know that you want this a certain way, right?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm the expert here, you need to listen to me.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm your advice, I'm not your errand person, I'm not just going to push out a press release because you think, then why do you have me here?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: You might as well be doing it yourself.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think essentially what she's saying is that we can drop clients too.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a two-way stream.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: This is why your contracts come into play and things like that.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, Sumi's 10 years, I'm sure BHM is probably 15, 20 years now.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um 20.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: 20.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: So at that stage, you know, a decade in, we have less of that because even the onboarding process, you already know you can weed out.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: So my discovery process of discovering you, and you're also discovering me, kind of already knows.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of have a clue whether you're gonna listen or not.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: I always say something like this: there's some things even before I get on a call that I know that do I want to work with this person or not?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not able to fill out our discovery form, like the client brief, I'm probably not gonna take care of it because if you can't take time out, how am I going to get your messaging right when from the beginning you can't even tell me why you've come to me?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so, you know, and what you're trying to achieve.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of people will be like, I can't, can I not just get on a call?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have$10,000.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: Can I not just get it?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, you can't just get on a call.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Fill it out.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let me see on paper how your brain is thinking.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can't do that, no amount of money is gonna make me get into this partnership because it is a partnership.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: What is the biggest PR disaster you've ever had to, you know, manage, work through?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: What is the biggest PR disaster?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you're gonna take that, please do.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's been many disasters because you know, and give an example.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, give an example of like a serious one.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to go in and mention it.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like a medical one.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Where it involves something medical that's been, you know, and then you have to like work through that um and be really an advisor, and that's crisis communication and reputation management.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's been that.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's also been situations where, for instance, maybe a few people sent a people, a few people were sent the wrong dates for an event.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, depending on whether a date changed, but then somebody was still sending the wrong, you know.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: So all of that years ago now, because we now have stronger interviews.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: You scroll through so many years.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where that kind of thing cannot even happen based on the standard operating procedure, but in the past.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what else?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, smiling.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I know she's reminiscing you when it comes to the city.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: You have the tea.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: Give us the tea.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think there's actually been a lot.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I because I've done a lot of reality shows where things are not exactly yeah, yeah, um, scripted.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, things get very out of hand, right?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: There are things that it has happened a lot.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can't get into details obviously, but yes, um, I think one of the one of the maybe trickiest campaigns or situations that you can work in as a pure person is like reality TV, especially it's for like a global brand, right?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that care beyond the show itself, you have to also protect the reputation of the bigger brand.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and again, it's not scripted, so things happen.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: There are things that production as a lot of people think that you tell people to do this, or you see a housewife wilding out on Instagram or Twitter or wherever, right?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they think it's part of the script.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's part of the script.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, they've gone off script.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: They've gone off script.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Why are they saying this on it?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's Saturday morning.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm driving to my parents' house, and I happen to look down, and my Twitter is going from and I'm wondering what is going on.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I pull over to the side, and a real housewife is dragging another housewife, accusing the other housewife of things like lesbianism and this, and I was just like, oh my god, what is it?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't even 9 a.m.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what is going on?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I love the mess because I'm a huge exactly I'm a huge reality show fan.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love real housewives.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can give you the history.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is it Lagos?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is it Atlanta?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is it I can tell you what housewife and who she was cutting out and that's my that's my love is that right because it's also a um good for TV, yeah.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's good for TV, right?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly, yeah.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to there needs to be a balance, you need to know when okay, what can we call this person to order because this is now yeah out of, and I'm going to let it play out because that outrage culture is very important, yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: So she not only dragged a fellow housewife, she also dragged like in the parent company or the production company, and it was a big thing, and then then there were so many think pieces, yeah, and it was just a lot.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was good for us, the viewers, because we were like, oh my god, juicy, wow.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you people who were the PR consultant, sorry, yeah?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, you don't sleep, you're actually the group chat is good.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which brings me to the question.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which brings me to the question.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, when people say all publicity is good publicity, is it true?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, which is better?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Is it better to have no publicity or bad publicity?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it depends on your brand or the brand.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's very dependent on kind of yeah, brand you are, and I should say at the stage, right?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um if I'm a I'm trying to think of a brand like a food brand.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want Baba as publicity, right?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is now what you know, this is a money.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, people are very particular about that.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't want, but you don't want to wake up and they're saying, Oh, I opened your carton or whatever it is, and I saw a route or something.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but if you you're a nightclub and there was a drug bust, it might actually bring people so it depends.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: These things happen, you know, these things these things happen not just in Nigeria but internationally.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it depends on the sort of brand you are managing.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: If it's a prestigious uh brand, like a bank, for example, there they'll probably be more you know conservative and worried about certain things.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: If it is a reality star, if it is, you know, a reality show, if it is a you know, a musician or things like that.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, maybe the peer might even leak more.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's not fair enough.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Put it as has this other blog picked it up?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Before we get back into today's roundtable, let me talk to you about something close to home, something that almost all of us have done.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know that thing that we do when, say, somebody is traveling, for example, traveling abroad, and suddenly you have like errands for them to run?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, please give this bag of Gary to my mom, give this refuge to my dad, or something, you know, something like that.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: In some cases, I've had people give me cash and say, can you please give this money maybe to my brother or to my cousin or these things.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: See, that money problem is the problem that Send App by Flutterwave was built to solve.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let me explain it further.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Send App is a remittance product that lets people in the diaspora and people right here in Nigeria send money home or abroad in minutes.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: I said minutes, no suitcase required.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: Whether it's school fees, whether it's medical bills, or just supporting your family, you open the app, you send, and it lands.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Very simple.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's fast, it's secure, and it's built on Flutter Waves trusted payment infrastructure, which by now most of us already know and trust.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: So here's what I love: it works both ways.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: If you are in the US, you are in the UK, you're in Europe, and you are sending money to Nigeria, to Ghana, Cameroon, Egypt, Ivory Coast, or South Africa, SendApp has you covered.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are here in Nigeria and you want to send money to someone abroad, you know, some family, friends, whoever it is in the US, the UK, EU, or Ghana, it works for you too.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: I already said it goes both ways.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: Getting started takes minutes.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: All you have to do is download the app, you sign up, you verify your identity, and you can start sending money rather from as little as$10.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: There is no SSN required.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you are in the US, that's your social security number, just your ID, and you're good to go.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: And here is the part that always gets a reaction.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Send app always rewards you for sharing it.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you refer a friend and they sign up and they send their own first transfer, you both earn.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: You get some money in return.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that is real money back in your pocket for doing what you are already going to do anyway.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a win-win situation for everyone, which is a wonderful thing, if you ask me.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: So next time someone is traveling soon and everyone starts trying to send, you know, errands, give you money to hold and send to this person, just refer them to send app.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Very simple, send app by Flutterwave.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Download it today, send.flutterwave.com.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: How important is traditional media today?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: Does a brand still need traditional media to become successful?
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: Say, for example, a fashion brand.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: They build this billion naira business today.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh can they oh no, let me rephrase that.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can a fashion brand build a billion naira business today without traditional media?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do they only need social media?
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we've seen a lot of brands, right?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: In this day, media has changed, right?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we've seen a lot of brands that whether it's the you know you had Bosti on your show, right?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: That was entirely on social media.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a social media campaign.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's the media has changed where in the past, if you if you're a fashion brand and you want to get your story out here, you want to get you need a vogue, you need now you don't necessarily need them to blow up.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen a lot of brands blow up just solely on social media, right?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I at least said something earlier about credibility and how these guys are able to tell the deeper stories, right?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think at some point it might help you blow up, but to sustain that and to present a certain way with the people, maybe the decision makers or the the people who you want to target in the long run, right?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's important that beyond the social media boards that there is also a layer of endorsement from the legacy brand, the media brand, the traditional media guy.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, you can blow up on social media, and we've seen it happen for a lot of times.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: But there needs to be an uh endorsement of sorts.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: If people Google you, what is this publication saying about you?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think to that to say that the truth is I know times are changing, especially with AI and ChatGPT and Claude and Nicole, but you know, you still can't Google an Instagram post like that.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really a deeply embedded SEO.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: And not only that, yes, you can tell some social media storytelling, and I know they're short-form ways of story, but it's not the same as me seeing a page on an article article that I can read and go down and it's layers, and I start from paragraph one to paragraph two and see image imagery of your um pieces or your work.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and whilst your website can do that, the endorsement is what she's you know, the endorsement is really important.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the truth about it is at the end of the day, it's also like a societal and demography thing.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know the young have money, but depending on your brand, there's certain people that you need to target and they're not on social media.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: They're actually reading Guardian Woman, you know, and you might want to target them because they may want to buy it for their children and they're the ones that are, they have the coins, they have the purse, you know, they're the buying power.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you want to look at that and not just be all about the social media hype.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: I gave an example when we're chatting before we got on, where I flew into New York for vacation.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, it happened around the time when various heads of state gather in New York every September.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so the security at the airport was very serious.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, and I've been to New York several times, over 10 times over the years.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they pulled me aside with my green passport and they asked me, You say you are who again?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: You do what?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: Where you work?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: Go to this room.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: I go to the room and then they will come to me and they'll say, Where do you say you work?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: I used to work at BTFM then.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: I do the drive time show from so and so.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll go to a computer.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was literally five steps away from me.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: And they would type in stuff.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't see what they were typing.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there were like three or four women gathered around the screen and they would say, Hmm.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll look at me again and they'll come back and they'll say, When did you get married?
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then they will come back again.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I realized what was happening, whether it was a search engine that they have that was stronger than Google, you know, again, they're US immigration.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know what they were searching.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: But the fact that they were able to see that everything I was saying, they could fact-check.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's articles about me from years and years of work and different things that I have, from Wimmy's okay to so many different things.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: And they were able to see everything there.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it checked out.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's everything checked out.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if your whole entire life is just social media and TikTok, then I'm sorry.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's no credible publication, whether it's This Day, The Guardian, whether it is, I don't know, whoever around the world, and they've never spoken about you or written about you, then there's a problem.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Forget that.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, maybe you could say, okay, it's because of your green passwords, because third world problems, okay.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: You are looking for funding.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: And some old money guy somewhere is like, I see nothing but Instagram and TikTok about this person.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: There is no credible newspaper.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's nowhere in the world that you will say the guardian.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: And there's the guardian American or thank you or New York, New York Times, or like just something.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they will, there's there's certain traditional media that they respect.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if they don't see that, then they probably look at you like this person is not serious, or this person is not credible.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that traditional media might be old school to some people, but definitely matters.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: And people are checking it out, even to use your services, by the way.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: For the vendors, the videographers.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: If I Google you and I don't see anything, I don't think, yeah, it's a red flag for me.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, down to and forget, you know, I also search even your social.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Before I want to hire someone, I look through your social.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: If I person who is tweeting crazy stuff, I'll hire you, you know.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, quick question.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have so many questions for you, but fortunately, we really don't have a lot of time.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna give you a few scenarios.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let me start with Injideka.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: A Nigerian designer is accused online of copying another designer's collection.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: The story is already trending.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do in the first hour?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that that's not the time to put out statements.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's it's very important to monitor, right?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what are people saying?
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: How true is this?
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you have like an in-house team that you need to bring together, whether it's the guys drawing your doing your sketch, right, your legal team or whatever, maybe that's the time to have like an internal meeting, have somebody monitor social media to see the thrust of the conversation, right?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: And be able to get your facts and evidence.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't copy this and it's an inspiration, right, from the Holy Spirit or whatever.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I say that a lot.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but if it's an inspiration, like and literally the ideas are what a dime it doesn't, right?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody can get so but it's just it's not the time to put out a statement because I see a lot of people they rush to respond.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Please take a step back, hear what people, listen to what people are saying, gather your in-house team, right?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you need to put out this, and I think one of the things we do with a lot of the brands um that we work with is for campaigns or whatever, you need to already have like a plan in place for how you handle crisis when they have or how you handle issues to stop them from even escalating the crisis, right?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you then need to put out a holding statement to see, say, oh, I see the c or we see the conversations that are happening, right?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are investigating this.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just acknowledging that you see what's happening.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in that first hour, please take a step back, assess the situation, assess the situation, listen to what people are saying, put your in-house team together, right?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: And get your facts and evidence in there.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Liz, for you now.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let me give you a scenario.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: Your client is a fashion brand, a premium fashion brand.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: A celebrity who is wearing your client's clothing gets into a major scandal the night before a major campaign launches.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna pull that campaign?
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you an example.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: This celebrity has been arrested for like fraud and they are wearing a t-shirt from the new collection that is going to launch the next day.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: Are you pulling the campaign or are you like whatever?
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: Tricky.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would have loved to hear your response on this.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think I'm gonna pull the campaign.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm not gonna pull the campaign because you know we didn't we don't co-own.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think it's also very important.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: Whilst, yes, this person is an influence and you know, a spokesperson is the truth, but they are not the owner of the brand of the brand, you know, and I cannot each time somebody that wore my piece.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can imagine if you akin it to Gucci and people are even in their mugshots in Gucci, I don't think Gucci pulls down, you know, pulls stop.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in this case we would roll, we would continue.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, just like Indica Indideka said, we would continue to monitor the situation.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: For instance, if for whatever reason our name is now being dragged, we can definitely look at pulling um some statements together and releasing that we're not affiliated in any way, you know.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think I would stop my, I think the show would go on.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna ask you another question and then the last question of you.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: Your client says something offensive during an interview, and Twitter starts dragging them.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: They want to immediately post an apology.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: They should immediately post an apology.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think in those sort of instances, it's good to own up.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's no argument about whether you said this thing or not.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not unsure, or we're not on the fence.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: You said something wrong.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that the, I think you're always in a good place to apologize.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not one for apology means that you are now only own up, be accountable, you know, be accountable.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, of course, you can't just go and apologize the way we will sit down, we will graft draft the apology together, and you'll of course make it matter.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: For you, Injudeka, an influencer, your client paid, posts the wrong product, gets the caption wrong, and refuses to fix it.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: What happens next?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: How am I going to pay your balance?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's why that's why you're only getting 70% back.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm never going to work with you again.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like your blacklisted actually.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's it doesn't make any sense.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're also very intentional about the people that we use.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: Try to use people who have sense.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there are times when you can't help it.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is what's yeah.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: But we try like literally have an influencer selection framework for every campaign or every brand that we work with.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: They don't check this list.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not engaging you.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to actually demonstrate that you are very professional.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've had people that I'm never going to work with them again because they have been badly behaved, right?
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not getting your balances as simple as that.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's it, too.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: In so I have so many questions, but again, time.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we'll do this, you know, in another season.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm telling you, because there's so much to discuss.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you were advising me, Bimi, as the host of the fashion roundtable, wow, from a PR lens, this is a free consultation for me.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: What's the one thing this show should be doing that it is not doing yet?
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: Be real.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think Liz should go because I okay.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, we've spoken we spoke a lot for season one.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yes.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_02: You should be using Sumi for PR, for example.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, that's gonna take your take your bag.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yes.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: One.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she's already been pitching.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, we we I consulted with them a lot for season one.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: They really were very, very helpful.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, definitely you shouldn't be working by yourself.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: You should definitely have either an in-house marketing team or somebody that's gonna help with like, you know, social media.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you already know because you have like a number, a top, um, another show that you have at the top.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's just about um, you know proper plans, you know?
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is the rollout plan looking like?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: Who are the partners?
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about it already that yeah, we're not going to people when it's already done.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like if you've got a film just like this, but I'm not going to people when it's already done.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm already for this episode maximizing on who I know would potentially be interested in this conversation and how it relates to them, you know?
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's a deeper dive.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: How in this whole fashion um conversation are we going to infiltrate a potential partner?
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think, yeah, it's just about deeper strategy.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're already doing the right thing.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: You're already fabulous.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're already a fashion girl.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're already, you're already doing the, I mean, for the fact that we're here, you already know who the right people to be talking to are.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I would um also there's so many people doing great work in the PR space.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: They should have one-on-ones with you, you know.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm talking beyond obviously the show.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, somebody on the team should be talking to each and every one of us because you never know where the partnership is, you know.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, does the somebody at this show have the list of all the PR companies that they could potentially partner with?
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not always also just about going to the brands directly.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_02: We are also influential.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything she said, right?
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: But oh no, it yeah.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think what I would add to that is um the show is, and I know we spoke about it earlier, where um it's important to understand who this show is for, right?
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um go back and look at season one, look at what worked, what worked really well, and see how we can double down on that.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: If it's extracting the clips that you know have the potential to get people's attention on social media, beyond posting trailers, let's look for sound bites, right?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: That people that would get people talking.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about this style infidel episode, right?
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: And things that people actually care because it's fashion.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of Nigerians, a lot of people don't consume the backstory.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_01: Care about oh, this good, and that's it, right?
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's important that we are dissecting the episodes to know this thing that this person said would probably drive people's attention to and looking for ways to tell the story in a way that would resonate with people.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was really profound.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was really profound.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I would ask, what was your most viral episode?
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was telling her it was the one with Zephans, um, the Zephans founder, Kiki, um, where the headline or the title, or should I say, or the was it the yeah, was we sold 35,000 pieces in one year, basically.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And funny enough, by the time, you know, I was interviewing her, she said, Oh, that was yeah, that was a year ago.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_02: We've beyond we've gone beyond that.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: 100,000.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that, actually.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so people were like, oh wow, you know, and it was very organic, and people were really interested in that.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they were also very interested in the Busty episode, were interested in Starling Fidel's episode where he revealed that people spend up to about$4,000,$5,000 on their wedding ashoki, and I nearly fainted because I was like, I'm sorry, but you know, when Veronica um Vein Style mentioned, explained her reason for not putting uh you know the prices and caption, and people were very angry.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, what do we mean by that?
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Can you calm down?
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: She explained why.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so different, you know, the different people, you know, we're very reactive.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're very, you said what?
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what do you mean?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so um keyboard warrior.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So what's gonna be the tagline for this show?
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: We'll figure it out.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: It usually comes to comes to us when we watch the episode, watch it over and over and over, and then like, okay, yeah, we'll figure out something that'll be interesting.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I look forward to seeing it.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, ladies.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's been fun.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: This episode was brought to you by Flutterwave.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Visit flutterwave.com.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.