Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / Rotation Out of Tech Is How To Make Money This Year: Nick Colas

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Rotation Out of Tech Is How To Make Money This Year: Nick Colas · Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
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Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. We are going to
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Speaker 1: get to a guest I've been looking forward to for
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Speaker 1: a while. Nick Kolis, joins us co founder of Data
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Speaker 1: Trek Research, and he was one of my favorite guests.
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Speaker 1: Um when I used to anchor out of New York. Um, Nick,
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Speaker 1: it's your notes that I really loved. I used to
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Speaker 1: be on your mailing list. I feel like I got
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Speaker 1: kicked off at some point along the way. I don't
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Speaker 1: know that was perfect. Hype are there, Matt? You gotta be.
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Speaker 1: The commissions have to be there. But but um, today
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Speaker 1: you come to us with a note, with a with
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Speaker 1: a survey. Really the results of your bubble survey. You
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Speaker 1: had about four people, UM take the survey to tell you,
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Speaker 1: you know, if they're seeing bubbles, what a bubble is,
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Speaker 1: which bubbles are most concerning? What was your big takeaway Nick,
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Speaker 1: from from the note from the survey. Sorry, yeah, well,
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Speaker 1: first all, we'll definitely put you back on the press
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Speaker 1: list for the product and apologize for for the for
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Speaker 1: the omission um. The bottom line on this survey was
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Speaker 1: really interesting because what we asked people. We asked people
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Speaker 1: a couple of different directions and asked them where they
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Speaker 1: see bubbles, And eighty five plus percent of people do
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Speaker 1: see bubbles in the market. And these are professional investors,
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Speaker 1: high network individuals, people who understand markets. Two see there's
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Speaker 1: a bubble somewhere that by far the biggest one was bitcoin.
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Speaker 1: They called out bitcoin by orders of magnitude more than
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Speaker 1: any other thing. So two hundred and eighty votes for
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Speaker 1: bitcoining and being in a bubble out of four hundred.
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Speaker 1: The next next one up nine votes for US large caps,
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Speaker 1: sixty four votes for US small caps. But so stocks,
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Speaker 1: a little bit of bitcoin a lot. Hey, Nick, you
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Speaker 1: know you and I've been in this business a long
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Speaker 1: time and you kind of a similar history here in
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Speaker 1: terms of time in the business. What do you make
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Speaker 1: of SPACs, SPACs or something that we've seen in various
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Speaker 1: forms over the years, But boy, have they just exploded
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Speaker 1: onto the marketplace. They have exploded. And we did ask
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Speaker 1: about SPACs and the survey and the majority of respondents
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Speaker 1: did see SPACs is emblematic of a larger bubble in
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Speaker 1: certain parts of tech. Look, underlying SPACs is a good
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Speaker 1: fundamental thing, which is maybe the I P O process
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Speaker 1: is a little bit broken and vcs have to find
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Speaker 1: other ways to monetize their assets. Totally fair, but I
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Speaker 1: think the enthusiasm O respects is way overdone because they
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Speaker 1: so often linked to electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, things like that.
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Speaker 1: That gets people all juiced up, and it does create
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Speaker 1: a bit of a bubble in that segment of the
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Speaker 1: equity market for sure. I I don't suppose anyone mentioned
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Speaker 1: n f t s. Did you see that? Uh, Nick,
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Speaker 1: people are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy
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Speaker 1: NBA moments, which are just actually video clips connected to
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Speaker 1: a digital token that you don't even really own. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I I did a piece on n f t S
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Speaker 1: for a client's last night. It really is like, it
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Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of I don't know, if you
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Speaker 1: were crypto kiddies, the Etherium product back in twenty It's
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Speaker 1: the same company, dude, It's the same company, Dapper Entertainment
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Speaker 1: started the kiddies, and then the NBA hired them to
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Speaker 1: do these moments on top shot. You know, God bless them.
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Speaker 1: They figured out a way to pull some money out
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Speaker 1: of this system, which is which is great. I just thought,
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Speaker 1: like a Matt, you're a car guy. What if GM
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Speaker 1: were you to sell um fifteen second clips of the
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Speaker 1: first Corvette launch at the Waldorf in New York and
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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, well exactly, or for the Mustang when
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Speaker 1: they unveiled it on the Empire State. This is the idea,
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Speaker 1: and they could do that. And the idea would be
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Speaker 1: that you got the only you know, authentic version, but
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Speaker 1: anyone else can just get the clip on YouTube. Right.
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Speaker 1: But the Corvette guy, the Mustang guy, he's going to
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Speaker 1: want the original because he just spent three hundred grants
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Speaker 1: for his original fifty three that he's gonna want to
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Speaker 1: spend a hundred grand for the original video clip. This.
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Speaker 1: I gotta rip up this grip for a second. Here.
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Speaker 1: We can do that in my Tom Keene, are you
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Speaker 1: a bigger fan of the C one Corvette? A great
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Speaker 1: example was in the movie Less than Zero or of
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Speaker 1: the C two, the split window is the one I love? Which, Nick,
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Speaker 1: which you think is? Or do you like one of
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Speaker 1: the newer ones? Look, I love the latest one flat out.
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Speaker 1: I think that's unbelievable. That's a great concept, and I'm
4:32
Speaker 1: so glad they finally moved to mid engine. Other than that,
4:35
Speaker 1: you've got to go back to the original. You gotta
4:36
Speaker 1: go back to the source water goes back to Lake Victoria,
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Speaker 1: the whole thing, and it's the c one, all right.
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Speaker 1: So we're talking about expensive cars here, we're talking about
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Speaker 1: rare cars. So, Nick, when a client asked you to
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Speaker 1: write up a note and do some research on these
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Speaker 1: NBA clips, I mean, what does that tell you? Well,
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Speaker 1: it tells me that there's a lot of attention and
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Speaker 1: there are Look, I mean, this is one of those
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Speaker 1: things where you can make a lot of money very
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Speaker 1: quickly if you happen to be in the right space,
5:04
Speaker 1: if you're in the art gallery space, if you're in
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Speaker 1: the creative space. There's a shot here, and there's some
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Speaker 1: heavy money behind the centrition. Horowitz wrote up a large
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Speaker 1: blog entry on this very thing, and if you listen
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Speaker 1: to Market and Ben's um Clubhouse chat a couple of
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Speaker 1: weeks ago, it very clearly fits into a much larger
5:21
Speaker 1: scheme of a decentralized Internet, which is like their big thing.
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Speaker 1: So what I try to do for clients is just
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Speaker 1: first of all, say like, yeah, this is coming and
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Speaker 1: if you happen to be in on this early, you
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Speaker 1: can make some money doing and no doubt about people
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Speaker 1: are doing it right now, and there's some ten gentle
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Speaker 1: things that big companies can do, but more than anything,
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Speaker 1: just contextualize it as the Silicon Valley is very strong
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Speaker 1: attempt and this will be going for the next ten
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Speaker 1: years to decentralize the net and get away from one
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Speaker 1: aws one Apple app store and try to figure out
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Speaker 1: how to end run all the big tech giants. That's
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Speaker 1: what the Silicon Valley and the vcs are trying to do.
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Speaker 1: So you used to be a banker to doing the
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Speaker 1: same kind of things that well Paul was doing it
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Speaker 1: for for media um and telecoms right and you were
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Speaker 1: doing mostly the auto industry nick um equity offerings, advising
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Speaker 1: on M and A, etcetera. When and that going into
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Speaker 1: the Internet bubble. Do you see any similarities between what
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Speaker 1: we're looking at now and then or is the are
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Speaker 1: the time periods just too different to compare. No, there
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Speaker 1: are similarities at the very highest level. And the similarity
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Speaker 1: is the pandemic gave tech a huge boost, and they
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Speaker 1: both in stocks and in usage just societal usage, the
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Speaker 1: same way Internet one oh from seven to two thousand
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Speaker 1: did it for the first front of technology. And now
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Speaker 1: we're beginning to see the rotation, which is very much
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Speaker 1: like what it was in two thousand and one when
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Speaker 1: dot Com began to blow up. I remember looking at Vistia,
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Speaker 1: I'm looking at Forward, looking at GM and thinking why
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Speaker 1: are these stocks up so much even though we're clearly
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Speaker 1: at the end of the cycle. It was just money
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Speaker 1: lead being tech and having to go somewhere else, and
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Speaker 1: that's what was happening, and that's what's happening again now.
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Speaker 1: But you look like the good Year chart for the
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Speaker 1: last couple of weeks. They're buying Cooper Tire finally, which
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Speaker 1: is awesome, but man, that thing was just dead for
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Speaker 1: months and now it's coming back to life. Forward the
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Speaker 1: same way. So I think what you're seeing is money
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Speaker 1: rotating out of tech and back into the two older companies.
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Speaker 1: And if you're just looking at independently, you think, what
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Speaker 1: is going on here? And that's what's going on. Money
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Speaker 1: is leaving tech and going into basic industry encyclicals, and
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Speaker 1: we think that's going to continue. That's going to make
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Speaker 1: money this year. Hey, Nick, thanks for joining us. We
7:33
Speaker 1: always appreciate getting your thoughts and your insight. Uh. We're
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Speaker 1: always afford to chatting with you and Nick call Us.
7:38
Speaker 1: Co founder Data Trek Research. Matt Nicks is one of
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Speaker 1: the smartest folks. We talked to boy every time we
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Speaker 1: have them on. I learned a lot. And he's got taste. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Now I will disagree with him on that. I like
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Speaker 1: to see two Corvette better, but I can admit that
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Speaker 1: I don't have the greatest taste when it comes to
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Speaker 1: these things. I know that Nick and I both air
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Speaker 1: love for Ducati's and he has one of them, um
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Speaker 1: coveted UH sport Classics or he has the GT version
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Speaker 1: which they don't make anymore. So he's got the car
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Speaker 1: thing and that that's great. And you've got the less
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Speaker 1: than zero reference in there, which I totally got and
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Speaker 1: untillly down with. That's good for that. The spacks are
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Speaker 1: coming fast and furious. Dave Wilson, he brings us up
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Speaker 1: at Data on a daily basis on the new spacks,
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Speaker 1: and they're coming from a wide variety of backers and
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Speaker 1: focusing on a wide variety of industries. It's kind of
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Speaker 1: the new I p O, if you will, of recent months.
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Speaker 1: David Dwalt, he's the founder of a spack called night
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Speaker 1: a Dragon. He was also the former CEO of fire
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Speaker 1: Eye and McAfee. Uh, they are spack supposed to start
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Speaker 1: trading on the nastack today day. Thanks so much for
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Speaker 1: joining us. We appreciate it. Talk to us about Night Dragon.
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Speaker 1: What's the strategy here? Yeah, thank you, thank you for
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Speaker 1: having me. Yeah. So, you know, when I was CEO
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Speaker 1: of McAfee, ironically, there was a famous cybers cruity tech
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Speaker 1: called night Dragon, and my researchers then sort of said, hey,
9:05
Speaker 1: here's uh, here's one of those seminal moments in cyber security,
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Speaker 1: and they named it night Dragon. But I always said,
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Speaker 1: if I ever built my own thing, it would be
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Speaker 1: called that. But hey, listen, night Dragons the whole platform.
9:17
Speaker 1: We've been working hard as a team the last few years. Um,
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Speaker 1: you know, funding investing into cyber companies from incubators to
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Speaker 1: early stage to now late stage kinds of companies. Um,
9:30
Speaker 1: really the spack here, which is a you know, a
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Speaker 1: new type of product called the scale and get into that.
9:38
Speaker 1: But really we wanted to help create companies are really
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Speaker 1: efficient way to go public and these would be top
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Speaker 1: tier cyber safety type companies that we know well as
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Speaker 1: a team and we've known as you know, public company
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Speaker 1: executives and help them get to a high potential for
9:56
Speaker 1: shareholder value. Dave um Night Dragon is an awesome name,
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Speaker 1: first of all, and you also have served as CEO
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Speaker 1: of a number of other companies, including Fire. I that
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Speaker 1: name totally rules um McAfee isn't nearly as cool. I
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Speaker 1: would have changed that, But the point is you've got
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Speaker 1: a ton of experience in this industry. And it was
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Speaker 1: pointed out to me earlier that SPACs maybe just a
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Speaker 1: way for people who don't have you know, ten million
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Speaker 1: dollars to throw at um BC partners to get into
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Speaker 1: private equity. Do you think that's along the right lines? Well,
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Speaker 1: it certainly is one route, especially if we start to
10:36
Speaker 1: see the evolution that Spinning Eagle had, which is a
10:40
Speaker 1: spack platform, you know, a super spact platform there. There's
10:46
Speaker 1: there's new sec rulings coming out that you could do
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Speaker 1: a multitude of SPACs in one vehicle, and you could
10:53
Speaker 1: have two, three, or four or five of them, and
10:55
Speaker 1: you could have small, medium, in large type companies, you
10:58
Speaker 1: d a into the back product. And so this is
11:03
Speaker 1: here to stay. I mean there's no doubt about I mean,
11:05
Speaker 1: deal certainty, deal closure. You know, management afloat, managing short positions,
11:10
Speaker 1: you know, adding management teams into the board and advisors,
11:14
Speaker 1: you know, doing this with quality investors, quality leadership, and
11:19
Speaker 1: it looks like it's the right way to go, especially
11:22
Speaker 1: especially if you have foreign national companies trying to come
11:25
Speaker 1: into the US as well, and they want to use
11:28
Speaker 1: the listings and the investments as a way of gaining
11:31
Speaker 1: scipious approval or government US access, getting more open markets
11:37
Speaker 1: to especially in national security and cyber world. You know,
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Speaker 1: these companies are often founded in Israel now or you know,
11:45
Speaker 1: other parts of the world. In fact, you alluded to Firear.
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Speaker 1: That company was founded in Pakistan and you know we
11:52
Speaker 1: brought it to the United States and helped vet it.
11:55
Speaker 1: My other company for Scout, was founded in Israel. So
11:58
Speaker 1: you know, being able to be world class technology to
12:02
Speaker 1: the world stage is a little what this operating team
12:05
Speaker 1: has been good at and so we have a lot
12:07
Speaker 1: of different targets in mind, a lot of different opportunities,
12:10
Speaker 1: and uh, we think night dragons are really nice. Please
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Speaker 1: tell us on here to do it. Please tell us
12:15
Speaker 1: before you make the offer so we can front run them.
12:19
Speaker 1: I'll try. What type of companies are technologies are you
12:25
Speaker 1: guys gonna be focused on initially? Yeah, so you know
12:29
Speaker 1: our market segment, what we what we all know here
12:31
Speaker 1: is a collective team, you know, a hundred and fifty
12:34
Speaker 1: years of collective experience by this team. But we're focused
12:37
Speaker 1: on cyber safety, security and privacy. I always like to
12:40
Speaker 1: say security from silicon to satellite. But the idea here
12:44
Speaker 1: is companies that really are in important threat areas. And
12:49
Speaker 1: let me just explain for a second. You know where
12:51
Speaker 1: do we see attackers really driving uh, you know, successful breaches.
12:58
Speaker 1: What we trying to do is build commercial defense to
13:00
Speaker 1: meet that threat. And we've identified ten different sectors that
13:06
Speaker 1: have multi billion dollar total addressable markets that we would
13:10
Speaker 1: like to target um our work towards. And they can
13:14
Speaker 1: be everything from satellite leo's with lower orbit satellites and
13:19
Speaker 1: now connecting everything from your watch to your car to airplanes,
13:23
Speaker 1: light shair safety, security, for Delta Airlines are aircraft are
13:26
Speaker 1: now connecting up in the ways and the security there
13:29
Speaker 1: you know, needs to improve a lot. So there's really
13:32
Speaker 1: amazing space economy, safety, security opportunities, but all the way
13:36
Speaker 1: down to identity management, cloud security areas, social network. If
13:42
Speaker 1: anybody you know watched the last you know, four years,
13:45
Speaker 1: we know manipulated information, false information, is you know here
13:49
Speaker 1: to stay? How do we fix that problem? We have
13:52
Speaker 1: some really cool companies that are Night Dragon portfolio already,
13:56
Speaker 1: as well as ones we know that can come and
13:58
Speaker 1: meet these sector areas and we can help take them
14:02
Speaker 1: to their full potential. We believe as a public company
14:07
Speaker 1: excellent Dave. Great to get some time with you. Fascinating stuff, Dave.
14:10
Speaker 1: D Walt there who used to run uh fire Eye
14:14
Speaker 1: McAfee document um now talking about his Night Dragons. Back
14:20
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this lockdown, I was drinking a
14:23
Speaker 1: lot of beer, and I was gaining weight, and I
14:26
Speaker 1: was kind of tired, and I thought, this is not
14:29
Speaker 1: a good idea. I've got to make a change in
14:31
Speaker 1: my life, so I started drinking wine instead. I want
14:34
Speaker 1: to bring in right now. Steven Ranickally, Global beverages strategist
14:39
Speaker 1: at Robbo Bank International to talk to us about the
14:42
Speaker 1: impact UM, maybe a little bit longer term than than
14:45
Speaker 1: what I've experienced of the lockdowns the pandemic on the
14:50
Speaker 1: wine industry. UM, Stephen, thanks so much for joining us.
14:53
Speaker 1: I'm assuming a lot of people are drinking more wine.
14:56
Speaker 1: Is that wrong? Well, you know that's first off, let
15:00
Speaker 1: me say, I think you made a great switch switching
15:02
Speaker 1: from beer to wine. That will make a lot of
15:05
Speaker 1: fines that I deal with very happy. But you know,
15:07
Speaker 1: I think overall, when you look at it, people didn't
15:09
Speaker 1: really drink much more. What you saw was a huge
15:12
Speaker 1: shift in channels, right, so people, you know, they were
15:16
Speaker 1: we know that restaurants were shut down, bars restaurants shut down,
15:20
Speaker 1: and you know, people were doing all their shopping at
15:22
Speaker 1: a grocery stores. So when you look at the numbers,
15:24
Speaker 1: the numbers that were put out oftentimes really just looked
15:27
Speaker 1: at grocery stores and you saw this huge jump in sales,
15:30
Speaker 1: and everyone thought, oh, everyone's you know, everyone's drinking a
15:33
Speaker 1: ton more. But really it was just compensating for the
15:36
Speaker 1: loss of sales and the on premise and that, you know.
15:39
Speaker 1: But what was really important behind that is certain segments
15:43
Speaker 1: of the wine sector were hit worse than others because
15:45
Speaker 1: of it. Steve talked to us about the financial health
15:49
Speaker 1: of the wine industry. I'm wondering if it's if it's
15:52
Speaker 1: like other industries that we've seen there in this past year,
15:54
Speaker 1: where if you're a big company, good balance sheet, access
15:58
Speaker 1: to capital, you generally formed or fared better than maybe
16:02
Speaker 1: an independent player who maybe again doesn't have access to capital.
16:06
Speaker 1: Talk to us about the wine industry, how those players
16:08
Speaker 1: have fared. Yeah, I think I think what you've laid
16:11
Speaker 1: out as a as a pretty fair assessment, and I
16:13
Speaker 1: should say, you know, it's it's it's always a bit
16:16
Speaker 1: of a mixed bag. Even among some of the smaller players.
16:19
Speaker 1: If you had a really strong brand, really clear identity
16:23
Speaker 1: in the market, you know, some of those players did
16:26
Speaker 1: really really well, didn't really miss a beat, but it
16:29
Speaker 1: was really on the whole. I would say it was,
16:31
Speaker 1: you know, larger wineries that have the national brands, that
16:34
Speaker 1: have good access to the supermarkets and the big retail accounts.
16:38
Speaker 1: Those players did did much better. They fared much better
16:41
Speaker 1: in than than a lot of the smaller players that
16:45
Speaker 1: you know lost not only you know, they lost out
16:48
Speaker 1: on sales and restaurants. But also, you know, a lot
16:50
Speaker 1: of the tasting room traffic, a lot of the the
16:53
Speaker 1: smaller guys depend on people traveling out to California, Oregon
16:57
Speaker 1: visiting the winery and you know, and generating no sales.
17:00
Speaker 1: So those guys got hit kind of, you know, on
17:02
Speaker 1: on both ends of that. So so when do you
17:04
Speaker 1: steve When are some of those wineries going to open
17:07
Speaker 1: up some of their tasting rooms just asking for a friend?
17:11
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's it's been touch and go. Uh,
17:15
Speaker 1: you know, we're all kind of waiting. I think we're
17:17
Speaker 1: all kind of looking at this and saying that by
17:19
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully by summer we're getting back to two
17:23
Speaker 1: more normalized activity. Uh, you know, restaurants opening up, tasting
17:28
Speaker 1: rooms and so forth, and so, you know, I think
17:31
Speaker 1: we'll start to get back to some level of normalcy.
17:34
Speaker 1: But it's gonna take time, you know, and especially on
17:37
Speaker 1: the restaurant side. You know, we've seen the numbers out
17:40
Speaker 1: of the National Restaurant Association. There are a number of
17:43
Speaker 1: you know, there's a large swath of those those independent
17:46
Speaker 1: restaurants that are not going to fully recover. They're not
17:48
Speaker 1: going to reopen right so that really kind of creates
17:52
Speaker 1: some challenges and winners and losers within within the wine industry.
17:56
Speaker 1: Some you know, some of these winders will be much
17:58
Speaker 1: more challenged than others. You know, I I would, It's interesting.
18:01
Speaker 1: I would normally if I wanted to, um, go on
18:04
Speaker 1: a wine tasting. My dad loves the Silver oak Um
18:09
Speaker 1: place out in in uh in Oakville, California, and so
18:13
Speaker 1: maybe we'd go out there. Um. But if we're stuck
18:17
Speaker 1: in lockdown in New York. My buddy Neil Grossman has
18:20
Speaker 1: a vineyard now up by Millbrook, and I wonder if
18:23
Speaker 1: more people are trying their local wineries, local vineyards just
18:28
Speaker 1: because they can't get to Napa Valley. Yeah. I think
18:32
Speaker 1: there's there's probably a fair amount of that, and there
18:35
Speaker 1: will be right it's there, We're you know, moving back
18:37
Speaker 1: to visiting wineries and so forth. It's going to be
18:40
Speaker 1: a process. You know, we see some consumers, even with
18:44
Speaker 1: a vaccine, much more reluctant to travel. So I think
18:47
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a little bit of that. But also,
18:49
Speaker 1: you know, one of the big winners in in has
18:52
Speaker 1: been e commerce. Right, You've seen people shifting from from
18:56
Speaker 1: restaurant sales to buying online and you know they're fine
19:00
Speaker 1: ending their great wines and they can have those at home,
19:02
Speaker 1: and you know, so finding ways I think the challenge
19:05
Speaker 1: for the wine industry has been finding ways to connect
19:08
Speaker 1: with the consumer where they are. Hey, Steve, you know
19:12
Speaker 1: there's so many independent wineries out there. Are they going
19:14
Speaker 1: to be? Are we going to see some consolidation in
19:16
Speaker 1: this industry because maybe some of those smaller, weaker ones
19:19
Speaker 1: that are gonna be a little bit vulnerable here. Yeah,
19:22
Speaker 1: I think you know there's there we're certainly looking at
19:25
Speaker 1: and saying, you know, moving forward, we're seeing signs of consolidation.
19:29
Speaker 1: We put out a note, you know, a couple of
19:32
Speaker 1: last month that said, you know, when you look at
19:34
Speaker 1: some of the signs, were likely to see some consolidation.
19:37
Speaker 1: And we've already seen some really interesting moves. Um, you know,
19:41
Speaker 1: we're larger reasonably sized wineries either going uh you know
19:46
Speaker 1: the spack route. You saw the Vintage Wine Estates deal
19:49
Speaker 1: that was you know, that was a huge deal, seven
19:52
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar deal there you know, merged with us
19:54
Speaker 1: back and and you know we had them. We had
19:57
Speaker 1: the CEO, Pat Roney on on on our podcast and
20:01
Speaker 1: we kind of talked about some of what they were
20:03
Speaker 1: going through and and why this SPAC deal made sense.
20:07
Speaker 1: It was a really interesting move, right, this rise of
20:09
Speaker 1: spacts and how even that's playing in in the wine space.
20:12
Speaker 1: But even aside from that, you've had duck Horn announced
20:15
Speaker 1: uh an I p O. You've had Virgin Wines in
20:18
Speaker 1: the UK announce an i p O. And we've also
20:21
Speaker 1: seen kind of behind the scenes a lot of the
20:23
Speaker 1: larger wineries that have come through, you know and reasonably
20:28
Speaker 1: good condition, saying hey, maybe this is a good time
20:30
Speaker 1: for us to make some acquisitions. Right, So it's an
20:32
Speaker 1: interesting time in the wine industry with a lot of
20:35
Speaker 1: a lot of acquisitions and and uh yeah, I think
20:38
Speaker 1: we'll see more all right, Steve, thanks so much for
20:41
Speaker 1: joining us. We always appreciate a Steve Ranically of Global
20:44
Speaker 1: Beverages Strategist at Robbo Bank giving us the state of
20:48
Speaker 1: the global wine market. The pandemic has upended, has disrupted
20:56
Speaker 1: how we all work, or how many people work, with
21:00
Speaker 1: many people being forced to work from home, changing our calendars,
21:04
Speaker 1: changing our work days. Now, the question is, let's talk
21:07
Speaker 1: about that five day work day. Is that something that
21:10
Speaker 1: needs to be looked at. Let's turn to Stefan Nicola
21:13
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News in Berlin. Stuff and you've got a fascinating
21:16
Speaker 1: story here. The four day work week gains popularity. What
21:19
Speaker 1: do we know? Yeah, it is gaining popularity around the world.
21:25
Speaker 1: I talked with the CEO of a Berlin tech company
21:28
Speaker 1: and they had trials at four point five day work
21:32
Speaker 1: week after the pandemic really put a lot of stress
21:36
Speaker 1: on on its workers. And what they found out is
21:39
Speaker 1: that sales grows employee satisfaction roles and client happiness roles.
21:47
Speaker 1: So in January they decided to go for a four
21:51
Speaker 1: day work week at full pay and full benefits, and
21:54
Speaker 1: the CEO told me the initial experience is really good.
21:59
Speaker 1: So first of all, Um, Stephane, congratulations because your story
22:02
Speaker 1: is the most read story on the Bloomberg over the
22:06
Speaker 1: last eight hours. Seriously, there are thousands of stories on
22:09
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg and his is the most red So I
22:11
Speaker 1: think that's pretty awesome. Um. Also, I learned something that
22:14
Speaker 1: I didn't know even as I'm an absolute Ford fanatic.
22:18
Speaker 1: Um just love the F one fifty. The Raptor is
22:20
Speaker 1: my favorite truck of all time. So and I've been
22:22
Speaker 1: to Dearborn a ton and I know the family and uh,
22:27
Speaker 1: the executives. I did not know. Henry Ford was kind
22:30
Speaker 1: of the first person to give workers two days off
22:34
Speaker 1: a week. It used to be that workers only got
22:36
Speaker 1: Sunday off, and Henry Ford's idea, much like with the
22:39
Speaker 1: five dollar work day, was if I give them two
22:41
Speaker 1: days off, they're gonna have more reason to buy a
22:44
Speaker 1: car because they're gonna need it for um, you know,
22:47
Speaker 1: driving around hanging out. And he was right and that
22:50
Speaker 1: caught on, So, um, I think that's really cool, Stephan.
22:54
Speaker 1: Are you hearing from employers now, like if they get
22:58
Speaker 1: three days off, they will totally stuff Well, you know,
23:03
Speaker 1: first of all, I think the working world in general
23:07
Speaker 1: has changed, right. The pandemic has appended the way we work,
23:12
Speaker 1: It has changed workplaces, it has changed companies. So authorities
23:17
Speaker 1: and employees around the world are rethinking the way they
23:22
Speaker 1: put their employees to work. And one way is to
23:25
Speaker 1: give them one additional day of weekend basically or you
23:29
Speaker 1: know when when when they want to take Monday or
23:32
Speaker 1: Wednesday off. That's all the fine as well. It doesn't
23:35
Speaker 1: necessarily mean these workers will output less. The CEO of
23:40
Speaker 1: a one told me they these his workers don't necessarily
23:45
Speaker 1: just just cut full day of work, but they work
23:48
Speaker 1: smarter and just as efficiently. So you know, things are changing.
23:52
Speaker 1: And yeah, this may just be you know, the first
23:56
Speaker 1: first tendency of of a Ford like moment that you
24:00
Speaker 1: ad it earlier, Matt. So, Stefan, it seems like maybe
24:03
Speaker 1: there's some cultural issues here. Perhaps some folks in Europe
24:07
Speaker 1: might be more open to it. Maybe some yeah, you know,
24:13
Speaker 1: I mean they take longer. You know, we Americans we
24:15
Speaker 1: look over to some of these Europeans. We see, boy,
24:17
Speaker 1: these they take these nice long vacations and they you know,
24:20
Speaker 1: and it's just perhaps they don't work as hard. There's
24:23
Speaker 1: a perception here in the US that maybe the in
24:26
Speaker 1: countries don't work as hard as the French. Right, that's
24:30
Speaker 1: specifically the French, because the Germans obviously work hard. Have
24:33
Speaker 1: you driven a Mercedes lately? I mean yeah, come on,
24:37
Speaker 1: I mean, so, Stefan, is there do you think there's
24:39
Speaker 1: gonna be some cultural geographic issues? Uh? Well, first of all,
24:45
Speaker 1: surely there will be cultural and regional differences. If you
24:49
Speaker 1: only think of let's say, Jack ma the co founder
24:54
Speaker 1: of of Ali Baba, who sort of hailed the n
24:57
Speaker 1: world work culture in China, that that grueling schedule that
25:02
Speaker 1: has secured a success from many tech companies in Asia. Uh.
25:06
Speaker 1: You know, it'll it'll take a while until it will
25:09
Speaker 1: catch on over there, and it may take a while
25:13
Speaker 1: until it catches on in some other countries. But you know,
25:16
Speaker 1: this is not an isolated trend in Europe or in
25:20
Speaker 1: a certain country. We're talking about New Zealand, Japan, Spain,
25:26
Speaker 1: even companies in the US have have tried this, So
25:30
Speaker 1: I think it's it's not necessarily isolated to just one region.
25:36
Speaker 1: All right, Stephan, thanks so much. Stepan Nikola there with
25:38
Speaker 1: the most read story of the day, um and appetizing,
25:43
Speaker 1: titilating four day work week. I don't really think it's
25:46
Speaker 1: ever gonna go down, um globally, Paul. And it doesn't
25:50
Speaker 1: seem like something that's going to happen in the US. Yeah,
25:52
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think what it's changed here is technology,
25:57
Speaker 1: because what we've learned during this pandemic, with technology, you
26:00
Speaker 1: can be as productive or more productive in some cases
26:04
Speaker 1: with a much more flexible work environment. You don't need
26:07
Speaker 1: to be in a physical office for some roles. Uh.
26:10
Speaker 1: And again, as long as the productivity is there, then
26:15
Speaker 1: I would think managements the C suite would be open
26:17
Speaker 1: to some discussions. So I suspect that there might be
26:20
Speaker 1: some changes coming along here that might be a little
26:22
Speaker 1: bit more permanent I could buy. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful,
26:25
Speaker 1: But look I get so you and I work for
26:27
Speaker 1: the same company. I get thirty five days of vacation
26:31
Speaker 1: every year. What do you get one? Am I? Oh, yeah,
26:35
Speaker 1: you're you're in Europe at twenty See that. I want
26:39
Speaker 1: to move back to the US so badly because I
26:41
Speaker 1: miss football, and I miss pickup trucks and I want,
26:45
Speaker 1: you know, a big backyard, but and at homecoming and
26:49
Speaker 1: you know, school sports. But I do not want to
26:53
Speaker 1: only have twenty days of vacation a year. The town's awful,
26:56
Speaker 1: and most Americans, I would argue, don't even take it
27:00
Speaker 1: for a lot. Something happens. Thanks for listening to the
27:03
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews
27:07
Speaker 1: with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm
27:11
Speaker 1: Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. On
27:16
Speaker 1: Fall Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast,
27:19
Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio