Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / Running Toward Purpose: Circus, Special Needs & Radical Possibility | Jason Barrett | Ep 42

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Running Toward Purpose: Circus, Special Needs & Radical Possibility | Jason Barrett | Ep 42 · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

• 0:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:01
  Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
• 0:03
  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times bestselling author of
• 0:06
  The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
• 0:08
  Before I jump in with today's guest, I want to say a huge thank you to you, our
• 0:13
  audience, for helping to make this happen.
• 0:15
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• 0:16
  If you like what we do here, please give it a thumbs up,
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• 0:24
  To find out about our certification courses, online video libraries,
• 0:29
  books, and other courses, please go to rupertisaacson.com.
• 0:34
  So now let's jump in.
• 0:36
  Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free.
• 0:39
  Jason Barrett has put his life in service to people with special needs.
• 0:45
  Obviously, that's dear to my heart because I've done a rather similar thing.
• 0:50
  But I kind of had to do it because I, obviously, I'm an autism dad, Jason
• 0:54
  and his wife Sise, who by the way, you will want to go across to our equine
• 1:00
  assisted world podcast and listen to her incredible interview and story there.
• 1:06
  But even though she's the sort of horse person behind that, Jason
• 1:12
  has built an extraordinary family business around theater performance,
• 1:21
  special needs, neuroplasticity.
• 1:25
  And living life sort of on his own terms along the way.
• 1:29
  And when I first met Jason, which I think was in 2018 he struck me as somebody who
• 1:39
  would see no obstacles in life because you really can't, you shouldn't be able to
• 1:44
  make a living through this sort of weird mix of equestrian theater autism living
• 1:51
  life on the road as a sort of performance gypsy, let alone like raise a family and
• 1:55
  the whole thing and, and make a go of it.
• 1:58
  And yet he has.
• 2:00
  And I think we all kind of wanna run away with the circus, so as the man that
• 2:05
  we might be running to if we do that.
• 2:07
  I wanna welcome Jason to the show.
• 2:09
  And so Jason, thanks so much for coming on.
• 2:12
  You're one of my heroes.
• 2:13
  Tell us.
• 2:14
  Super.
• 2:14
  I'm excited to be here.
• 2:15
  Thanks for having me.
• 2:16
  It's always fun to, to talk.
• 2:17
  Are you talk with, you hang out with like-minded people, what
• 2:19
  possessed you to do something?
• 2:22
  So on the face of it, impossible to make a living at when you could have
• 2:26
  just gone to law school or something?
• 2:28
  Jason Barrett: Well, I, I, I could have done that.
• 2:30
  That would've been an option.
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  I think first of all, you, you've gotta look all the way back and I have to
• 2:34
  give credit to a, a fortunate life.
• 2:38
  I was born under great conditions.
• 2:39
  I was born in the United States with a family who loved and cared for me under
• 2:44
  conditions that that allowed for growth.
• 2:46
  You know, there's a lot of people that don't start that way.
• 2:48
  So that would be the first thing.
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  You know, obviously you gotta have a decent start, otherwise you may have
• 2:53
  some obstacles to go to overcome.
• 2:55
  And as far as my life was gone, has gone there's been no real obstacles like that.
• 3:00
  Rupert Isaacson: You know, that's a very honest thing to say because a lot of
• 3:02
  people want to sort of virtue signal by saying, well, you know, I bootstrapped
• 3:06
  it and I came outta poverty and so on.
• 3:09
  I do know that you did bootstrap it.
• 3:10
  I know that you're being very modest there, but it's interesting that you start
• 3:13
  with gratitude for the life circumstances.
• 3:16
  I think so many of us just completely, who grew up in the West completely
• 3:20
  take for granted and have a bit of a sense of entitlement to just
• 3:27
  the fact that we are born here and not in Wartorn Sudan or something.
• 3:32
  And it is a very valid point.
• 3:35
  Okay, so you're born in, in the us Where are you born?
• 3:39
  Jason Barrett: Born in Jacksonville, Florida, down on the
• 3:41
  beautiful east coast of Florida.
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  Moved shortly thereafter to Mobile, Alabama.
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  Were home.
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  WW became home from three years old, o old on.
• 3:50
  And and I guess as far as attention with the with the special needs world and that,
• 3:55
  and that type of, how, that became such a huge part of my life, which it absolutely
• 3:59
  did was, I was introduced and we're in the Southern Baptist Bible Belt down here.
• 4:04
  So we were, we were good baptists.
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  Amen.
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  Coming to school to play basketball or up to the church to play
• 4:09
  basketball and and hear the word.
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  And so I was part of the youth group at that time, and there was
• 4:14
  a really great youth pastor, you know, a lot of a lot of preachers
• 4:17
  get condemnation from some folks.
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  This was one of those honest, true to true to life people, you know, a heartfelt guy.
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  Okay.
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  He recognized in me just from our interactions with the youth group
• 4:26
  and, and things and went to my mother and said, Hey, you know what?
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  I've had this camp call and they need hands on deck.
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  It's for mentally retarded children and adults, which
• 4:36
  was the term used at the time.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And and we think, I think that Jason has a good heart for this kind of work.
• 4:42
  He could probably help, but I was 12 years old at the time, so 12 years old.
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  Wow.
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  That's, that's what he, that's what they thought.
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  So he said, yeah, let's, let's give it a try.
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  I was willing, I, I wanted to do that.
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  I, I did it already.
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  Enjoy.
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  Helping others and, and found the joy and, and satisfaction
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  and, and serving other people.
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  And, and so anyway, I went, gave it a shot, had no idea what I was walking into.
• 5:02
  I walked into a line of full grown man.
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  There was a six foot three black dude that was twice as wide as I was, who
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  was getting pretty irate in the line.
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  And then they introduced me to my 40-year-old camper, 49-year-old camper.
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  This old man who could, who can't speak, and he is drooling on himself.
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  And this was my introduction to the special needs community at 12 years old.
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  So, wow.
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  It was perfect.
• 5:24
  Absolutely perfect.
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  What was your reaction?
• 5:27
  My reaction was just shock and awe at first.
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  Oh boy, what did I get myself into here?
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  You know, but I was willing.
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  I showed up.
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  I'm not one to, you know, turn away when I, when I tried.
• 5:37
  There must
• 5:37
  Rupert Isaacson: have been a little bit of fear, though.
• 5:39
  I mean big autistic adults, it's not easy.
• 5:43
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
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  Shocking.
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  It was a little bit of fear but it calmed down very soon.
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  The, the air in the place at that time, you know, this
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  was, this was before internet.
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  This was before you, you had to show up in person to sign your documents.
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  You had to meet everyone who passed through the line.
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  You know this.
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  Yeah.
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  That was going on.
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  So it's a different era.
• 6:00
  It's hard to talk about things now in that, in the light of that, but the
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  air from that moment was just this big cooperative scene of happy people
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  waiting to get in the lunch line.
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  And everybody's kind of herding cats, you know, they're, they're doing
• 6:13
  their part to help whoever they're working with do the best job they can.
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  And, and I jumped right in feet first, and stayed there from 12 to about 20 each year
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  for about five weeks out of the summer.
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  I and a bunch of others showed up there to be volunteers and, and
• 6:28
  help was, this was Camp Smile,
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  Rupert Isaacson: right?
• 6:29
  Opportunities
• 6:30
  Jason Barrett: Camp Smile.
• 6:31
  This was Camp Smile, also called Camp.
• 6:32
  Why did it grab
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  Rupert Isaacson: you so much?
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  I can tell you I, at 12 or my teens, I would've run.
• 6:37
  I just, I would've run a mile.
• 6:39
  Yeah.
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  And most people do.
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  Jason Barrett: I, I don't know, it just, it was just innate, a part of
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  me, even when I tried to transfer out into the regular workforce, the idea
• 6:47
  of not helping someone directly just, it just didn't make me feel like I was
• 6:52
  in sync with what I should be doing.
• 6:54
  So help, direct help is something I could, can you just tell us a
• 6:57
  Rupert Isaacson: little bit though about what, what was the internal process?
• 6:59
  I mean, what do you think made you go, yes, this is for me.
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  Jason Barrett: I would've probably, I, it would, it was be after
• 7:10
  the fact that I got started.
• 7:11
  So maybe a week into that first week, I knew where I was after that
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  first week of working with that man.
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  His name was David De Rocher and he was, he was very mild behavior,
• 7:21
  like I said, 49-year-old man.
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  And during the time that I worked with him that week, it opened my eyes to the fact
• 7:27
  that most of us don't have any problems.
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  You can, you can pretend you do, but until you've worked in this, in this
• 7:36
  world and you see what families go through and you see the lack of hope that just
• 7:41
  wells up and how the tiniest effort can change everything in those situations,
• 7:48
  you really learn to be grateful.
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  You learn.
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  So I really attribute.
• 7:51
  My basic character to my understanding at that camp with those, and I give a
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  lot of credit to everything we've done to the special needs humans who raised me
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  while I was a young teenager helping them.
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  How do you think they raised you?
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  How did the special needs people raise you?
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  There's this you know, the, it, it depends 'cause everyone is an individual.
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  So you, you're talking about a group of people that are indeed
• 8:15
  incredibly individualistic and some of those you learn lessons, you learn
• 8:19
  lessons from some of these folks.
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  You know, when one, just the lifestyle of them and their family, the, the
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  need to get up and put your next foot forward regardless, sometimes shaking
• 8:30
  off the problem is exactly what you do.
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  In this population.
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  Some people don't even see the problem.
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  There is no problem.
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  So you, there's these tiny, tiny lessons you can learn from a
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  population that doesn't think and breathe and live the same way you do.
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  And you've learned that for, obviously from your travels around the world.
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  We are so different.
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  And yet there's all these tiny connections.
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  If you're paying enough attention, that can build something new in you.
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  So for me, it was that, it was seeing that these folks are willing
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  to smile, have a great time.
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  The forgiveness and the kindness that you see, the, the, the connection that
• 9:03
  you can make because of the lack of layers of humanity that's grown on top
• 9:07
  of our faces as we go through life.
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  You know, those, those layers are peeled back much like working with the horses.
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  It's just you get an easy answer from a horse, yes or no, I
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  like this, I don't like this.
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  And it builds room for communication the same thing.
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  This communication between us was so simple at the time.
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  Sometimes it's just to sit and a stare and a look, and you're waiting for that.
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  For something, a light in the eye that changes.
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  And when you notice it and then you notice it again, then you
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  realize, hey, there's a person in there, there's a personality there.
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  And that just, just grabbed me.
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  I wanted to help that, I wanted to be a part of helping that.
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  Rupert Isaacson: You used the word forgiveness just now.
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  That's an interesting choice of words.
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  What did you learn about forgiveness as a, as a teen
• 9:50
  growing up with these, these folks?
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  Jason Barrett: It just seemed like, you know, intention really means something.
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  Intention means something.
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  And a lot of people can get caught in the action or the word and
• 10:04
  ignore the intention that was meant.
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  And maybe that was a mistake, a wrong word.
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  Maybe you did the wrong thing at the wrong time.
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  But the forgiveness aspect, learning, learning from them is that whatever
• 10:14
  mistakes there were to happen if you were late, if, if you lost their
• 10:18
  shirt or they, they didn't come back with their favorite cup the next day.
• 10:24
  If you were still investing in them in their time that was gone.
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  There was, there was an opportunity to rebuild almost immediately in most cases
• 10:31
  of the people that I've worked with, it seems like that that's able, now I could
• 10:36
  imagine through nature, nurture nurture that you could be developed in a different
• 10:40
  way and somebody could be very skittish.
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  And there have been people that I've met that I've seen that may have been abused
• 10:45
  along the way or, or were hurt people that, that don't respond the same way.
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  But in general, that's it.
• 10:51
  You get a, you get a second chance without a slap in the face or,
• 10:55
  you know, without the grief.
• 10:56
  Rupert Isaacson: So you're saying you are really talking about people
• 10:58
  forgiving you, your mistakes.
• 11:00
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 11:00
  People forgiving.
• 11:01
  Yeah.
• 11:01
  Just learning to forgive.
• 11:03
  Right.
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  Basically.
• 11:04
  Learning to forgive because either it's a non-issue and you shouldn't
• 11:07
  have made that big of a deal of it in the first place, Uhhuh, or it's
• 11:10
  something that can be passed over for the value of your relationship.
• 11:14
  Or it's something you have to handle directly.
• 11:15
  Maybe they're doing something wrong that day and you really have
• 11:18
  to, to make sure they understand this is not a safe behavior.
• 11:20
  You cannot do this.
• 11:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:22
  That may be different, but, and they may hate you in the moment, but it just seems
• 11:26
  like there's always that opportunity to start over in that population.
• 11:29
  You have a chance to help.
• 11:31
  Rupert Isaacson: Can you talk about how did you work with these people at camps?
• 11:34
  Smile, like how did you organize their day?
• 11:38
  What was the, yeah, what was the structure of it?
• 11:42
  And then through that and those activities, how did you, what did
• 11:48
  you learn about human development?
• 11:50
  Neuroplasticity, how the brain works.
• 11:55
  Jason Barrett: We had a structure, like a typical camp program.
• 11:58
  You'd wake up and have a day full of activities and, and scattered in
• 12:01
  between breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
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  But it was a little different in that the, the, the intimacy of
• 12:07
  the closeness to each other was.
• 12:09
  Was necessary because you had to take care of these.
• 12:11
  They had, they couldn't shower themselves, bathe themselves,
• 12:13
  use the restroom by themselves.
• 12:15
  A lot of times we had wheelchairs that worked total
• 12:18
  paraplegics that, and diapers.
• 12:20
  So you've got a range of at that time, 12 to 20 year olds who are leading this under
• 12:27
  a couple of incredible mentors in my life.
• 12:30
  CSY Lowell and Martha White.
• 12:32
  They were two of the directors that were at the time, and, and they had
• 12:36
  a, a real heart for it, you know, and, and the social ability, I really
• 12:40
  learned a lot from both of them about being open, leading a group, you know,
• 12:46
  trying, keeping engagement involved.
• 12:48
  So anyway, that's, that's the days we're set up like that.
• 12:51
  We get up, have bre, get everybody ready, have breakfast, and start some events.
• 12:55
  And that event would depend on what your.
• 12:58
  Camper was capable of doing.
• 13:00
  Not everybody could do the same thing.
• 13:01
  So you might be playing baseball that day and your camper can't hold
• 13:04
  a bat, or maybe it doesn't have arms.
• 13:06
  There's, there's no talent.
• 13:07
  So you're gonna find some creative way to play that game with them and you'll
• 13:11
  follow, we'd follow them through the game.
• 13:14
  So nothing was necessarily required outside of the organization of
• 13:17
  having people in the right places.
• 13:19
  But you'd be introduced to an activity, to a dance just like any other normal camp.
• 13:24
  So the point was to give them a opportunity at a life that felt like what
• 13:29
  us normies get the opportunities that we may have at a camp situation like that.
• 13:35
  How do you
• 13:36
  Rupert Isaacson: help someone with no arms play baseball?
• 13:39
  Jason Barrett: Well, you could do a lot of things.
• 13:41
  You can hold the bat between your knees.
• 13:42
  If they're sitting in a wheelchair, they could hold the bat between their
• 13:44
  knees, drop the T down low, and you turn the wheelchair and let 'em smack it.
• 13:49
  And it's a small hit.
• 13:50
  And these tiny victories, you know, sometimes that's a, that's
• 13:53
  a problem with some of these young kids that look at these games and
• 13:55
  look at what these people can do.
• 13:57
  And it's, it's so limited.
• 13:59
  It's, you know, they may laugh at it or they may think it's you
• 14:02
  know, what is the point of it.
• 14:04
  But when you spend the time with the person who's engaged in it, and they've
• 14:07
  never had the opportunity to do that before, it becomes a whole new thing.
• 14:11
  So you can find a joy and excitement in that if you're willing to look.
• 14:15
  So, yeah, there's, there's ways you could do that.
• 14:17
  You may, it may be a situation where you slide your arms around him and hold the
• 14:21
  bat for them or her and hit the ball.
• 14:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:23
  Whatever you have to do to make them a part of the thing so that
• 14:26
  they're not sitting on the sidelines.
• 14:28
  That was my introduction to the special needs world and, and that population.
• 14:32
  And, and it was always, as you mentioned before, nothing stops.
• 14:36
  You.
• 14:36
  You're gonna get to the next event.
• 14:38
  You're gonna go to the next thing.
• 14:39
  Everybody's gonna get a chance to participate.
• 14:41
  We're gonna make it happen in whatever that, whatever that obstacle is.
• 14:45
  And man, those are some great foundations.
• 14:48
  Those great foundations that are I
• 14:49
  Rupert Isaacson: how, but it still blows my mind that you as a.
• 14:53
  American Teen Boy or whatever nationality,
• 14:59
  Jason Barrett: right.
• 15:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Dealing with, you know, adult diapers.
• 15:05
  What, what do you think was your special superpower that you could
• 15:11
  do that and be required to do that?
• 15:14
  And at that age, not with some later maturity, but at that age.
• 15:20
  'cause 'cause the teenage years, we are hardwired as you know, the human
• 15:24
  brain is hardwired to be self-absorbed.
• 15:28
  The, you know, brain is not growing you know, all, at all
• 15:33
  the same pieces at the same time.
• 15:35
  And we know that nature designs us at sort of toddlerdom and adolescence
• 15:41
  to go through these periods of self-absorption where you sort of
• 15:45
  formulate first the personality of childhood and then the personality.
• 15:49
  That will lead you into adulthood, but they come with this.
• 15:55
  Yeah.
• 15:56
  Almost a kind of a built in narcissism
• 16:00
  that doesn't really usually go with like adult diapers.
• 16:05
  That blows my mind.
• 16:05
  It makes sense.
• 16:06
  Why?
• 16:07
  What, what was different about your brain?
• 16:11
  Jason Barrett: There was no, now there's no, there are no saints in the room here.
• 16:15
  So there's plenty of looking back and, and thinking, man, that was a stupid
• 16:18
  decision or Wow, I could have been a little more considerate about that.
• 16:21
  So there's, first of all, let's right the ship.
• 16:23
  There was no perfect role going there.
• 16:26
  But we had a great community at the time.
• 16:29
  So coming into the, the camp, it was already established.
• 16:34
  So I think that would be the, that would be, there had to be mentorship.
• 16:37
  There had to be somebody that directed that path, because that wasn't
• 16:40
  intrinsic to me yet at the time.
• 16:42
  Yeah.
• 16:43
  You know, I took these things from those opportunities.
• 16:46
  So that would be the thing.
• 16:47
  Mentorship.
• 16:48
  And it's something we learned, especially when we started developing Alisa School
• 16:52
  of Equestrian Arts for therapeutic horseback riding, was that it just,
• 16:56
  it really dawned on me later in life as I got involved in other states and
• 17:01
  places in special with the special needs community, that there is just a timeframe
• 17:06
  that just like everything else, and I believe fully between eight, 10 years
• 17:12
  old, 14, 15 years old, that is a special time in development and that is a time
• 17:19
  you can take a child and inspire them.
• 17:24
  That inspiration stick and become something I feel like, and I'm not,
• 17:28
  obviously things can happen at any time, but man, that is a sweet spot and I've
• 17:33
  learned that over and over again as we've sent generations of teenagers through
• 17:37
  our volunteer program that you know, if you catch 'em at 16 or, you know, they
• 17:42
  might be a little too late when they're driving around and have their own interest
• 17:45
  in their own life and they can be fully self-absorbed, you know, they can be.
• 17:49
  But I was doing this, like I said, at 12.
• 17:51
  I wasn't going anywhere on my own.
• 17:53
  Camp was the place where I made my friends as well.
• 17:56
  So it was definitely a community involvement.
• 17:58
  And when I walked in, the leadership at the time maintained enthusiasm.
• 18:04
  I mean, that's a, it's a big deal in all of these programs that we see around the
• 18:08
  country and, and what we've done ourself.
• 18:10
  If there's no enthusiasm in it, it's short.
• 18:13
  It's going to be short-lived.
• 18:15
  And so that enthusiasm is infectious.
• 18:17
  So I, I believe that with it being that it was a, it was a perfect storm for me.
• 18:21
  It's not the normal story.
• 18:23
  For sure as you're alluding to, it's not the normal story, but there were hundreds
• 18:27
  of other kids that helped out in the same way I did that were all teenagers.
• 18:31
  So, it's not a lone story.
• 18:33
  So I think it was the community, the factor that we came in there that I was
• 18:36
  interested in doing in the first place.
• 18:37
  I had a heart and mind for that, just, that's just how I grew up.
• 18:41
  And then coming in there and meeting like-minded people with some leadership
• 18:45
  that were really heartfelt, involved all the way through every aspect of it.
• 18:51
  To be there walking with you through the steps.
• 18:55
  That was an infectious time.
• 18:56
  We had an incredible time at that time period.
• 18:59
  I've watched it change through the years and there's been pros and
• 19:02
  cons that have come and developed, but there was a magic time there.
• 19:05
  I'm sure you remember some of those times before there were cell phones and
• 19:08
  recordings and everybody had to second guess everything with a thousand choices.
• 19:12
  Yeah, it was just something special in that time.
• 19:15
  So that was probably what instilled it in me.
• 19:17
  Like I said, it didn't just start there, but it grew.
• 19:19
  That's, that's the place that grew my character and, and the direction that I
• 19:23
  hope to take my life and future family.
• 19:26
  Rupert Isaacson: I've got a question.
• 19:27
  It's a bit of a provocative question.
• 19:28
  You say that this happened through the Southern Baptist Church?
• 19:30
  Yeah.
• 19:31
  Yep.
• 19:33
  Well, you know, Southern Baptist Church I lived, I've lived in the South.
• 19:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:37
  A lot.
• 19:38
  And I've observed some not good things.
• 19:44
  Through that church.
• 19:45
  Yeah.
• 19:45
  And one of the issues of it is it was one of only two churches that
• 19:51
  I know of that sort of wrote a theology designed to justify slavery.
• 20:00
  The other one is the, is the church of some of my ancestors, which is the Dutch
• 20:05
  Reform Church in South Africa, which sort of rewrote its rules to allow for
• 20:14
  apartheid in South Africa, you know, the separation of whites and blacks.
• 20:19
  And there's a, you know, an age old joke where, you know, the white
• 20:22
  priest, the PE as they call them, is coming to church and there's a
• 20:28
  black person down on their knees.
• 20:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:32
  And they said, what are you doing in here?
• 20:34
  Was like, you know, I'm, I'm cleaning the floor boss.
• 20:37
  And he goes, well, all right, but don't let me catch you praying.
• 20:41
  And yeah, but you know, we know that the Southern Baptist Church
• 20:45
  was related to the Ku Klux Klan.
• 20:47
  We know that it, it was, and even pre that, you know, came out very,
• 20:52
  very much in favor of a theology.
• 20:55
  And, you know, you don't actually have to try very hard because the Old
• 20:58
  Testament is actually full of slavery because the old Hebrews kept slaves.
• 21:02
  As did actually the early Christians in the Roman Empire
• 21:07
  Jason Barrett: been around for a long
• 21:08
  Rupert Isaacson: time.
• 21:08
  Slaves, sometimes they kept slaves.
• 21:09
  But point being, you understand what I'm saying?
• 21:13
  There has been a really toxic relationship with compassion, anti compassion, really
• 21:20
  through the Southern Baptist Church.
• 21:23
  But you clearly have had a, an, an experience with it that
• 21:26
  was completely the opposite.
• 21:27
  I find that intriguing.
• 21:29
  Why do you think that was
• 21:34
  Jason Barrett: one?
• 21:34
  I was 12.
• 21:36
  So these thoughts and these contemplations, but they
• 21:38
  were clearly these thoughts would've been there at the time.
• 21:41
  Two, obviously like everything, it's made up of individuals with different character
• 21:46
  and different principles, and you can't throw out the baby with the bath water.
• 21:50
  Hmm.
• 21:50
  So, that's, I guess that's it For me, it was just, that's just who I was.
• 21:55
  I was about, my family was full of love.
• 21:57
  There was no abuse.
• 21:58
  And my immediate family where there were and degenerations before where there
• 22:02
  was trauma and stuff, and my immediate household, my parents protected us.
• 22:06
  We were loved.
• 22:07
  We had family and friends.
• 22:09
  So, to be.
• 22:10
  There, the church, that was it.
• 22:12
  I went, it was a comforting place and all that as I grew and learned
• 22:16
  more and more about things.
• 22:17
  And actually one of the biggest things that, that kind of, well, there was,
• 22:22
  there's plenty, there's plenty of things to shake your mind on the
• 22:25
  formulation of human's idea of, of religion but in all its aspects.
• 22:30
  But the actual camp that we're talking about, camp Smile was
• 22:33
  based out of a campgrounds that was known as the Baptist Assembly.
• 22:37
  It was owned and operated by them, and so it was a charitable venture.
• 22:41
  So growing up I'm just like, oh, this is great.
• 22:44
  They're helping these people and we're doing this thing and this camp,
• 22:46
  you know, as I grew up, later on I realized that that, well, that cost a.
• 22:49
  Shit ton of money.
• 22:51
  They're, they're making bank down here in this tiny little town
• 22:54
  where there is no other option.
• 22:56
  And it's, and all, all the efforts to keep these programs alive.
• 23:01
  At that time, it wasn't backed by any larger groups.
• 23:04
  Now it's backed by United Cerebral Palsy and they run and they're well
• 23:07
  funded and, and all that stuff.
• 23:09
  So back then it was grassroots still.
• 23:11
  And so every dime was going to pay this place off, and none of the
• 23:15
  investment that went back into the property helped the camp at all.
• 23:19
  For instance, a building was built without wheelchair regulations, so you
• 23:25
  couldn't fit all the campers in and out of air and the shower houses and stuff.
• 23:29
  Ridiculous.
• 23:29
  So anyway, long story short.
• 23:31
  There's plenty of bad in each of the religions I've, I've visited.
• 23:36
  So, so yeah.
• 23:37
  So for me, that was it.
• 23:38
  There was I didn't have any other situations I knew of in that church.
• 23:41
  There was a problem with a pastor who had messed, who had defiled a child or
• 23:46
  there was a, there was an issue late.
• 23:48
  I mean, it's just disgusting.
• 23:49
  You hear it all the time and it's, it's, it's disheartening.
• 23:52
  But at the same time, in that building, there are mothers and families who
• 23:57
  are loving and accepting and trying to help their kids grow and don't
• 24:01
  think an ill thought about anyone.
• 24:03
  So I find that to be true.
• 24:05
  Most places I go, unfortunately, the ugly stuff sticks out and you have to
• 24:08
  pay attention to it because it may be a part of the whole program, you know?
• 24:12
  But
• 24:13
  Rupert Isaacson: you, you say a particular youth pastor that
• 24:15
  you had was not like that.
• 24:17
  He was actually a particularly good.
• 24:20
  Person,
• 24:20
  Jason Barrett: particularly Good person.
• 24:22
  Yeah.
• 24:22
  A sweet spirit.
• 24:23
  You know, when you meet somebody that has a sweet spirit, that has a kind
• 24:27
  spirit, a kind disposition and he was, that, he was, he was young at the time.
• 24:33
  I think he was probably only in his early twenties recently married.
• 24:37
  He was married.
• 24:38
  While it was just a, a sweet guy.
• 24:39
  I actually met him years later.
• 24:41
  I, I found him.
• 24:41
  We had, I took him to lunch to tell him how much I appreciated him making
• 24:46
  that moment or seeing whatever he did and said that to me and how much
• 24:49
  it's developed and how it's helped me build and grow my family and, and
• 24:53
  the network of acquaintances we have that are as close as family, so.
• 24:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:57
  So yeah, he was, he was a genuine guy.
• 25:00
  He in that, he was one of the guys who brought out that situation
• 25:03
  against one of the pastors that had happened in the place.
• 25:05
  So it was tough.
• 25:07
  It was a tough thing then.
• 25:08
  I was a child.
• 25:08
  I knew nothing about it.
• 25:09
  Heard things later on.
• 25:11
  But it seems to be pretty normal everywhere.
• 25:13
  Yeah.
• 25:13
  So I.
• 25:14
  I gave up the organized religion thing a while ago.
• 25:17
  I, I believe there's something amazing and bigger out there, but I'm not
• 25:20
  smart enough to tell you or anybody else what it is, so we keep looking.
• 25:24
  Well, at
• 25:24
  Rupert Isaacson: what point did you, you know, I, I want to go in obviously
• 25:27
  to the career that you've had and how you've built this, this incredible world
• 25:30
  that you, you have with this thing called equestrian chaos, which is of course,
• 25:34
  actually anything but chaotic, because yeah, it requires ridiculous amounts of
• 25:38
  structure, but it's a spectacular, a lot of organizations thing that you guys do.
• 25:43
  But just before we start going to how you and Sise put that together
• 25:48
  and made a go of it at what point did you move away from religion?
• 25:53
  Because, you know, it, it can be very difficult when you
• 25:55
  grow up with those supports.
• 26:00
  To not become really attached to them just culturally.
• 26:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:04
  And also from a point of view of, you know, safety or perceived
• 26:08
  safety, you know, security, perceived security and that sort of thing.
• 26:12
  It, it, it's, it's difficult to leave.
• 26:15
  What was the process?
• 26:16
  I
• 26:17
  Jason Barrett: think first I'd have to say our relationship
• 26:19
  with the church was casual.
• 26:20
  In, in the beginning it was, I mean, we were there.
• 26:23
  I was, I was young and, and filled with the Holy Spirit and everything
• 26:26
  that was going on in the room.
• 26:27
  But my family's relationship was fairly casual with the church.
• 26:30
  So we weren't every Sunday goers and all that stuff.
• 26:33
  Me,
• 26:34
  Rupert Isaacson: so you, you, you are very much in this
• 26:37
  church-based thing from 12 to 20.
• 26:40
  But yet at a certain point, you away from it, right?
• 26:42
  The church thing
• 26:42
  Jason Barrett: faded.
• 26:43
  Yeah.
• 26:43
  Okay.
• 26:43
  I'm back, back with you.
• 26:44
  The church thing sort of faded during those years as a teenager would grow and,
• 26:48
  and do things that a teenager would enjoy to do that go against the, the Holy Bible.
• 26:52
  But but so that, there was a little decline there.
• 26:55
  And, but still that was in my heart, you know?
• 26:57
  It was, it was a desire, you know, I wanted people to have the best thing
• 27:00
  in the world and the best thing in the world was going to heaven, you know?
• 27:04
  Yeah.
• 27:04
  That's what I, that's what I learned.
• 27:05
  Why would you not wanna do that?
• 27:06
  That's the best thing you could have, is to end your life in paradise.
• 27:09
  So that was that was it.
• 27:11
  But like I said, it, it faded away.
• 27:13
  Really wasn't much of a consequence on becoming a graduate.
• 27:17
  Parents divorced.
• 27:18
  I'm kind of doing my own thing back and forth out of college.
• 27:22
  And then I I had a instance where a guy knocked on my door.
• 27:27
  One of Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on the door, he said to me.
• 27:32
  So just, we're just walking through the neighborhood and talking today about,
• 27:35
  you know, where do you see the state of the world and it, where it's going.
• 27:38
  And I said, well, I, I think it's it's good, but it's kind of rough now.
• 27:42
  It's probably gonna get worse and it'll get a lot better.
• 27:44
  And that was my, it's get him out the door finish this conversation quickly.
• 27:49
  And he was like, oh man, that's a very insightful thing.
• 27:51
  Anyway, that conversation led to two years of studying the scriptures with this guy.
• 27:55
  Couple days a week.
• 27:57
  How old?
• 27:57
  I was 18.
• 27:58
  Okay.
• 27:59
  18, 19 or so.
• 28:00
  Then
• 28:01
  Rupert Isaacson: the Jehovah's Witnesses got you for a while?
• 28:03
  Jason Barrett: Oh yeah, they got me for a little bit.
• 28:04
  Sure did.
• 28:05
  So we studied the Bible a little bit and that's when the pictures
• 28:08
  of religion started to crumble.
• 28:11
  What I liked about.
• 28:13
  That is that they were doing the work that I had heard all these churches were
• 28:17
  supposed to be doing the whole time I was in church where they were actually
• 28:20
  walking around and really talking to people at telling 'em about Jesus and
• 28:24
  how great life was, stuff like that.
• 28:25
  So that was appealing that they were actually doing the work.
• 28:29
  I was sort of in turmoil 'cause I wasn't sure where I was gonna go from there.
• 28:33
  University was a drag, you know?
• 28:36
  I did not enjoy the things I was learning at the time.
• 28:38
  Didn't seem to have a place to go with it.
• 28:41
  I wanted to be an occupational therapist.
• 28:43
  And then I did some work in the field and realized that turned
• 28:46
  into very specific work that you do over and over again forever.
• 28:50
  So that appeal was gone.
• 28:52
  So anyway, so then I decided I'd help people find their way to forever.
• 28:56
  So then I started with the Jehovah's Witness preaching and teaching.
• 29:00
  I did that for about two years.
• 29:03
  Moved to Georgia.
• 29:05
  Where I did this, walking through the streets, held Bible studies with
• 29:08
  folks and, and and as much as I look back at that and go, yeah, that's just
• 29:12
  another religion created by men after the fact, the lessons I learned at
• 29:16
  that time, I would've hate to give up.
• 29:18
  I learned to speak to people under.
• 29:22
  The worst circumstances.
• 29:23
  You know, you're going door to door speaking interpersonally with
• 29:26
  folks, giving lectures in big halls.
• 29:29
  All the things that came to be something that would be a valuable contribution
• 29:33
  to my family and my life in the future.
• 29:35
  Were nailed in strong in two years.
• 29:38
  You know, you, you walk up to somebody's who door who doesn't
• 29:40
  wanna talk about the Bible.
• 29:41
  That's, that's a tough conversation.
• 29:44
  And you walk up to somebody's door who wants to talk about the Bible?
• 29:46
  That's a tough conversation.
• 29:47
  You gotta, there's a lot that could happen in between there.
• 29:49
  So, so yeah, what a, what a learning opportunity that was for me.
• 29:53
  But in the big picture of religion and all that stuff, it just boiled down to
• 29:57
  these are, these are, you know, men's, they're taking a stab at things older
• 30:02
  than everything they know, and decisions and words passed down through generations
• 30:07
  by mouth before they ever hit the pen.
• 30:10
  It, it just all kind of flows the same.
• 30:12
  So from then on, I, I, I vowed to, engage my surroundings.
• 30:18
  Everything in my world that I could touch or influence.
• 30:21
  There's, there's, there's my religion, there's my spirituality.
• 30:24
  I want to give much.
• 30:25
  But How did you, how did you go?
• 30:26
  Rupert Isaacson: The Jehovah's Witnesses don't like to let people go.
• 30:29
  How did you, how did you get away from that?
• 30:32
  Jason Barrett: You know,
• 30:32
  Rupert Isaacson: there's a lot of,
• 30:34
  Jason Barrett: there's a lot of stories in both directions about how things work.
• 30:36
  It was very simple.
• 30:37
  I just didn't go anymore.
• 30:39
  It was no, there was no lockdown procedures or things like that.
• 30:42
  What
• 30:42
  Rupert Isaacson: was the deciding factor?
• 30:44
  For me, the
• 30:44
  Jason Barrett: deciding factor was well, the contemplations that I
• 30:47
  was having about, okay, where does, where do the roots of this go?
• 30:51
  What drew me in was the tight-knit community, the appreciation for
• 30:55
  learning and for understanding, for actually doing the work.
• 30:58
  That's what, that's what drew me in.
• 30:59
  I even traveled to London with a family, stayed there for a while,
• 31:02
  and learned same thing regardless of what continent we were on.
• 31:07
  They had a similar thing.
• 31:08
  There was lots of dark things in there too that I've learned over the
• 31:11
  years afterwards or have heard about.
• 31:13
  But anyway, that was what drew me in the beginning.
• 31:16
  That's what it was.
• 31:17
  It was a good community and they were teaching and doing, doing the stuff
• 31:19
  they said they were gonna be doing.
• 31:21
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 31:21
  But what then made you think you wanted to leave?
• 31:24
  Jason Barrett: That was when I was realizing that all of these things are
• 31:27
  just, are just the contemplations of men.
• 31:29
  You know, these things.
• 31:31
  It doesn't matter how you get there.
• 31:32
  It doesn't matter if they're right or they're wrong.
• 31:34
  They could be.
• 31:34
  And they came from the thoughts of men trying to organize ideas that
• 31:38
  were too big for them to grasp.
• 31:39
  And that's, that began it.
• 31:41
  And then I saw in that particular situation, there was a friend of mine
• 31:45
  that was working for a guy who was, I didn't like those situations so well.
• 31:49
  I thought he was kind of being taken advantage of.
• 31:52
  And I said, you know what?
• 31:53
  I think we're just right back at square one again.
• 31:55
  So, we're out.
• 31:57
  Okay.
• 31:57
  And that was it.
• 31:58
  That was, that was the end of it.
• 32:00
  Rupert Isaacson: And then, then you're twenties, so you went,
• 32:02
  did you go off to college?
• 32:04
  Jason Barrett: I did.
• 32:04
  I went to college for a little while at University of South Alabama.
• 32:07
  And then after I left the witnesses, I started in the corporate world
• 32:11
  went to like I mentioned, I wanted to do occupational therapy.
• 32:14
  Found out that wasn't it.
• 32:15
  I got a job right after working with the witnesses with Kohl's department
• 32:19
  stores, traveling the country and setting up new stores and new areas and stuff.
• 32:23
  So that was great.
• 32:24
  I got a taste of travel, but then that became the same thing as everything else.
• 32:27
  Retail, you're filling shelves with shit so that people can
• 32:31
  pick it up and throw it away.
• 32:32
  So I just can't see where that could be satisfying life for me.
• 32:37
  Anyway, so that had to go.
• 32:39
  And then of course, I, I decided to it's a wildlife.
• 32:42
  I've changed a lot of things.
• 32:44
  So from there I decided that I needed to be interacting with people.
• 32:47
  I wanted to help people individually again, so I decided
• 32:50
  to be a massage therapist.
• 32:51
  However actually a, a, a note that I am proud of.
• 32:54
  During that time with Kohls, I was able to, when it was getting
• 32:59
  depressing to be in that type of work lifestyle, I was able to integrate a
• 33:03
  special needs program at the store.
• 33:06
  Okay.
• 33:06
  So we were able to bring in employees with special needs.
• 33:09
  Had a guy with Down syndrome and a guy with traumatic brain
• 33:11
  injury and a guy with autism.
• 33:13
  They, they were able to come in the store and they were working
• 33:16
  with a local organization there.
• 33:18
  But that ended up working out and even 15 years later, one of those
• 33:21
  guys still had his job at that store.
• 33:23
  So it was pretty cool.
• 33:24
  We did a couple of foundation walks, met some really beautiful people.
• 33:27
  And, and more importantly than that, I got people in the store accustomed
• 33:31
  to being around those people with special needs and finding something
• 33:35
  cool about 'em, you know, where they could slap PI five and, and be in a
• 33:38
  store with people that worked there for 15 years and have a relationship.
• 33:42
  So that was really fun.
• 33:43
  So that was a little touch back into the special needs department while
• 33:46
  I was trying to find myself again.
• 33:49
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so
• 33:53
  tell us now.
• 33:54
  What you do now, and then we're gonna backtrack to how you got that going.
• 34:01
  In a nutshell, tell us what you do.
• 34:03
  So now, if we scratch
• 34:04
  Jason Barrett: everything I've just told you, we are a traveling, performing
• 34:08
  family through equestrian chaos.
• 34:10
  I am the mc from my family.
• 34:12
  We perform on stage doing horseback, archery, and
• 34:15
  acrobatics around the country.
• 34:17
  We're in our fourth year of coast to coast national travels.
• 34:20
  All that spawned from the heart of everything we do.
• 34:23
  Alisa's School of the Equestrian Arts our therapeutic horseback riding program.
• 34:27
  And equestrian Chaos was just the backyard fundraiser for
• 34:30
  that ended up saving the day.
• 34:31
  So right now we both run both equestrian chaos and incredible
• 34:35
  trick riding troop and archery troop that travels the country.
• 34:39
  And we run Ali School Equestrian Arts and innovative therapeutic
• 34:42
  horseback riding program that marries trick riding and performance
• 34:46
  arts with therapeutic horseman.
• 34:50
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 34:51
  And you, the mc and of course the person that you know,
• 34:57
  organizes it and keeps going.
• 34:59
  In that story you told us about childhood, adolescence and early adulthood.
• 35:03
  I didn't hear anything about horses.
• 35:06
  Jason Barrett: Not a drop.
• 35:07
  There were two stories.
• 35:08
  There were two stories.
• 35:09
  We were at a party, a barn party, and one of my buddies says, Hey, you
• 35:13
  think we could ride those horses?
• 35:15
  So we hopped on the horses and came off very quickly.
• 35:19
  And then one other time I was trying to date a girl and she had horses,
• 35:22
  so I went for a ride with her.
• 35:23
  Same result truck flew by on the road, horse jumped.
• 35:26
  I came off and walked my way back to the bar to find the horse and the girl.
• 35:31
  But that was it.
• 35:32
  So yeah, horses were a new concept to me when I met my beautiful bride.
• 35:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 35:37
  Okay.
• 35:38
  So
• 35:39
  Jason Barrett: talk to us about that.
• 35:41
  So that would take us back to leaving a job that was, not for
• 35:45
  me, for something I wanted to do.
• 35:47
  I wanted to help people.
• 35:48
  So I decided to become a massage therapist.
• 35:51
  Another, another line which again helped me incredibly later on.
• 35:56
  So I, I took a job went to a school in Florida near Orlando, who was
• 36:02
  owned by the parent company that owns all the spas on the cruise ships.
• 36:06
  So I had an idea to travel internationally to find the next step while I was
• 36:10
  doing something I could enjoy doing.
• 36:12
  That was the whole plan.
• 36:13
  Everything was set and done.
• 36:15
  That was where it was going to go, and it started that direction,
• 36:19
  but it didn't finish there.
• 36:20
  So I flew down to Orlando, started training found a job at the Dolly Parton,
• 36:25
  Dixie Stampede no longer called such.
• 36:27
  'cause those words are bad, but,
• 36:31
  and what was
• 36:32
  Rupert Isaacson: the Dolly?
• 36:32
  Partons Dixie Stampede.
• 36:34
  And why'd you get a job?
• 36:34
  So it's a's.
• 36:35
  It was a dinner show.
• 36:37
  Jason Barrett: It was a, it was a theater Dinner show
• 36:38
  was Stampede.
• 36:39
  Definitely.
• 36:41
  So Massage Therapy school during the day, working at the Stampede at night.
• 36:45
  I was a waiter there.
• 36:47
  They were a huge theater.
• 36:48
  Oh.
• 36:48
  So it was like a dinner show?
• 36:49
  It was a dinner theater.
• 36:50
  Massive dinner theater.
• 36:51
  And it was an equestrian show.
• 36:52
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
• 36:53
  Jason Barrett: it was an equestrian show.
• 36:54
  Yeah.
• 36:55
  They did a north, north versus the south type of trick riding and flags
• 36:59
  and dance and all kinds of stuff.
• 37:01
  That's, that's the way it ran.
• 37:03
  And, and Sise was a performer in there, and I, I noticed her very quickly from
• 37:09
  the stands above as she was riding around.
• 37:12
  And so we made our acquaintance and turned that into a hot and
• 37:15
  heavy eight month romance with, with our own plans and intentions.
• 37:20
  She had painted the backdrop for an a seventh generation Italian circus family,
• 37:26
  and was planning to go on the road with their youngest troops heading out.
• 37:29
  And I had made arrangements in London to train and travel the world.
• 37:34
  So we took off willing to separate and leave our lives behind for the new
• 37:38
  lives we had in different directions.
• 37:41
  Different directions, completely.
• 37:42
  So I make it to London.
• 37:43
  And on a payphone I found out there's a bun in the oven.
• 37:46
  She, we've got a little baby cooking down there in mama's belly.
• 37:50
  So we had no intention of getting back together and at the time, you know,
• 37:54
  finding that, that news very striking and quite uncomfortable considering I'd
• 37:58
  sold my car and moved to, we were gone.
• 38:02
  Total separation.
• 38:03
  So, anyway, it was a tough time.
• 38:05
  Finding that beautiful bit of information out can sometimes be
• 38:09
  tough and it was tough for us.
• 38:11
  So we didn't want to commit to each other just because of that.
• 38:14
  We wanted to commit to each other for the reasons of love and a desire
• 38:18
  to live together and strive for it.
• 38:20
  So we didn't make that commitment right away.
• 38:22
  But I did return, got my contract cut short.
• 38:25
  We met each other in Tampa, Florida, where she was living at the time.
• 38:29
  And that's about it.
• 38:31
  That's pretty much the transition where we brought it to mobile and
• 38:33
  began building everything we have.
• 38:35
  So we were in Tampa, big city, not the place for us.
• 38:39
  I knew the connections I had here in mobile with some incredible
• 38:42
  people and opportunities.
• 38:44
  So I took us, we, we, we sold everything we had at a yard sale.
• 38:49
  This is fun.
• 38:50
  We made 1300 bucks.
• 38:52
  We had a Honda element that she had bought on the a earlier before I
• 38:57
  come back from the cruise ship, we bought a $900 two horse trailer.
• 39:03
  We piled everything we had into the back of the Honda Element, hooked up a trailer
• 39:07
  and two horses, and drove to mobile to see what we could do on 1300 bucks.
• 39:11
  So that was the start of our adult life.
• 39:13
  And you with
• 39:13
  Rupert Isaacson: no horse experience,
• 39:15
  Jason Barrett: zero horse experience whatsoever, but
• 39:17
  Rupert Isaacson: you found yourself hooked to a very driven and
• 39:22
  organizationally minded, horse person.
• 39:26
  Jason Barrett: Oh yeah, sure, sure.
• 39:28
  I did.
• 39:29
  You know so well.
• 39:31
  Yeah.
• 39:32
  We had a, we had a plan.
• 39:33
  She had everything organized.
• 39:34
  We had, we had no, yeah, not none of that.
• 39:37
  There was no plan.
• 39:38
  We had, as you could tell, the life just keeps changing from one Yeah.
• 39:41
  Interesting dimension to the next.
• 39:42
  So this was the next, so I brought her home.
• 39:46
  Rupert Isaacson: Go ahead.
• 39:47
  Also as a, she's, she's at this stage a performer.
• 39:50
  Equestrian performer.
• 39:52
  Well, that's not gonna happen when you're pregnant, and it might not happen
• 39:56
  for a while after the baby arrives.
• 39:59
  So what was the plan economically at that point?
• 40:02
  Jason Barrett: Economically was come back and I'd work as a massage
• 40:05
  therapist, she'd, we'd get side jobs.
• 40:08
  We had a connection through camp that was happy to have us come and, and have
• 40:12
  our horses on their property for a while.
• 40:14
  The camp mom came through, get self established camp,
• 40:16
  came through again, connect.
• 40:16
  Yeah.
• 40:16
  Camp Staple, the horses.
• 40:17
  These,
• 40:17
  yes.
• 40:18
  Absolutely.
• 40:19
  Yeah.
• 40:19
  There was a, one of the old camp moms that was a mother of one of the guys
• 40:22
  that was same age I was at the time.
• 40:24
  She had a husband that was a horseman.
• 40:26
  They had a property and a farm with plenty of room and two horses wasn't too much.
• 40:30
  So we came back and knowing nothing, we pull into the yard at two o'clock in the
• 40:34
  morning way late, you know, about four or five hours late the first time we met
• 40:38
  'em, you know, in, in 10 years or so.
• 40:41
  That's kind of the way we rolled.
• 40:42
  We had no idea what we were doing.
• 40:43
  We just kept pushing and, and made it happen and, and found incredible
• 40:46
  people to help us along the way.
• 40:49
  Rupert Isaacson: As you know, if you followed any of my work, I'm
• 40:52
  an autism dad and we have a whole career before this podcast in helping
• 40:59
  people with neurodivergence, either who are professionals in the field.
• 41:04
  Are you a therapist?
• 41:05
  Are you a caregiver?
• 41:07
  Are you a parent?
• 41:08
  Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?
• 41:12
  When my son, Rowan, was diagnosed with autism in 2004,
• 41:17
  I really didn't know what to do.
• 41:18
  So I reached out for mentorship, and I found it through an amazing adult
• 41:24
  autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.
• 41:27
  Temple Grandin.
• 41:28
  And she told me what to do.
• 41:29
  And it's been working so amazingly for the last 20 years.
• 41:34
  That not only is my son basically independent, but we've helped
• 41:39
  countless, countless thousands of others reach the same goal.
• 41:43
  Working in schools, working at home, working in therapy settings.
• 41:48
  If you would like to learn this cutting edge, neuroscience backed
• 41:52
  approach, it's called Movement Method.
• 41:55
  You can learn it online, you can learn it very, very simply.
• 41:58
  It's almost laughably simple.
• 42:02
  The important thing is to begin.
• 42:05
  Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.
• 42:08
  Grandin and see what results can follow.
• 42:13
  Go to this website, newtrailslearning.
• 42:18
  com Sign up as a gold member.
• 42:21
  Take the online movement method course.
• 42:24
  It's in 40 countries.
• 42:26
  Let us know how it goes for you.
• 42:29
  We really want to know.
• 42:29
  We really want to help people like me, people like you, out there
• 42:34
  live their best life, to live free, ride free, see what happens.
• 42:38
  Okay.
• 42:39
  Now I know your daughter Marley.
• 42:41
  And I think we can all agree that it's a very good thing
• 42:44
  that she came into the world.
• 42:45
  Damns an incredible performer.
• 42:48
  On horseback.
• 42:50
  She's also an incredibly talented musician.
• 42:55
  And just a general all round, you know, radically amazing person.
• 43:00
  And of course is a, a big part of, of your family business.
• 43:05
  How did equestrian chaos begin and how did you get something that really shouldn't
• 43:14
  be economically viable unless your Dolly Parton can put a couple of million into
• 43:19
  it and then probably still just walk away with 1 million of the two that you put in?
• 43:23
  How did this come about and how did you make it work?
• 43:30
  Jason Barrett: Nothing happened just from our efforts.
• 43:33
  We've had a great.
• 43:34
  Community of people involved in what we've done so that there is credit
• 43:38
  to be given and, and making great relationships, you know, and taking the
• 43:42
  time to care about people enough that they in turn care about you and that
• 43:45
  it's you, you see purpose together.
• 43:47
  So yeah, between family and the people have helped grow it.
• 43:50
  That's, that's, that's where that was.
• 43:51
  But equestrian chaos became what it was actually as a saving.
• 43:56
  I mean, it became the saving grace of everything we were doing.
• 43:59
  We, we began as Ali's School of Equestrian Arts before we were a nonprofit.
• 44:05
  And, it started first taking Kristen to Camp Smile again.
• 44:08
  So when we first moved back to Mobile, as mentioned, I took her to Camp Smile.
• 44:13
  We had her do some tricks on her, on her horse.
• 44:16
  Oh, like a performance for the kids, for the campers.
• 44:17
  Yeah.
• 44:17
  We did a little performance across the field for the campers, maybe
• 44:20
  three or four runs, doing some tricks while they were out there.
• 44:23
  They loved it and everything.
• 44:24
  It was, it was a great opportunity.
• 44:26
  It gave me the chance to, to show her and have my daughter
• 44:29
  in the place that built me.
• 44:31
  Okay.
• 44:31
  So that was a very important moment.
• 44:33
  And then the next year it.
• 44:35
  They were able to leave that Baptist assembly facility by the
• 44:39
  grace of another family in town.
• 44:40
  The Davis and Debbie Pilot family, they offered this remarkable campground
• 44:44
  to them and four other camps.
• 44:46
  They're very affluent family here in town.
• 44:48
  And, and they made this new campground available, 200 acres well built, put
• 44:54
  together everything that you could need accessible bathhouses, just,
• 44:59
  they sunk a ton of money into making this beautiful place for these camps.
• 45:03
  And, and that's where we did a lot of our work for nearly 14 years.
• 45:07
  So, those, those those places were built.
• 45:10
  And then, as, as the camp died off there.
• 45:13
  The the horseback rider, which this is something we could get into
• 45:16
  too, is horseback camp programs.
• 45:19
  Man, they're tough to run.
• 45:20
  Yeah, they're so the camp was changing changing properties and
• 45:23
  the, the director of the horseback program couldn't make it happen.
• 45:27
  So we got the calls Sessie, the mentor I mentioned before, called me and said,
• 45:30
  Hey, do you think you guys could do this?
• 45:33
  You know, I was like, I'm sure she can.
• 45:34
  I was working somewhere else that time.
• 45:35
  She's capable, she could do it, you know, I'll help.
• 45:38
  So, and she had had some relationship and, and interaction
• 45:41
  with the special need population.
• 45:42
  She had a cousin that she grew up with in the po and so she, she knew, but she
• 45:47
  hadn't had that day to day lifestyle.
• 45:50
  Whatever happens, everything goes, there's a way to work around it that,
• 45:53
  that I had developed in that area.
• 45:55
  So that worked out really well.
• 45:57
  So we got into, we got into the program there.
• 46:00
  That's how we started.
• 46:01
  And had no idea about business or the cost of horsemanship or anything at that point?
• 46:07
  Absolutely no idea.
• 46:08
  No idea which would turn around to bite us in the ass.
• 46:11
  Big time, a couple years down the road.
• 46:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 46:13
  You know,
• 46:16
  how did it turn?
• 46:17
  How did it bite you in the ass?
• 46:19
  Jason Barrett: Well, you don't know what to expect.
• 46:20
  You don't know what to ask for any, any new venture without market
• 46:24
  research and knowing what it is.
• 46:26
  And when you're in such an niche, niche area, there's not a lot of market research
• 46:30
  for what we would do and how we would grow that and how it works seasonally.
• 46:33
  What do you do in the off times and these things?
• 46:36
  So, for an entire week of.
• 46:40
  Programming at a camp where we would use 15 to 20 horses, we would
• 46:45
  see a hundred special needs or disabled children or adults per week.
• 46:51
  And we'd go on a mile and a quarter trail ride around a lake.
• 46:56
  We, we went big.
• 46:57
  I mean, we went really big.
• 46:58
  We gave everything that we had at the time and that, and that with about
• 47:02
  12 volunteers trained a couple months beforehand and kept up with throughout
• 47:06
  the year so they know what they're do.
• 47:08
  That was a $3,000 week,
• 47:12
  and it's embarrassing to say that we thought that could actually work.
• 47:17
  You know, years later we found out we were actually spending money from our rest of
• 47:20
  our budget just to keep the camps going.
• 47:23
  Yeah.
• 47:23
  I'm sure when we finally learned to, to count it and ask and count the
• 47:27
  cost and, and look forward we were like, wow, this is not sustainable.
• 47:32
  That was about the time when we we're we, but it's also a passion.
• 47:36
  We needed it to happen.
• 47:38
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 47:38
  And a learning curve and apprenticeship,
• 47:40
  Jason Barrett: learning curve, all that stuff.
• 47:41
  But it was, it had to happen.
• 47:42
  It was, it was so good, so good at the place, you know, we're gonna
• 47:46
  keep working and make it happen.
• 47:47
  And we, we negotiated to change things, but you know, when you come in, you come
• 47:51
  in and it's all for nonprofits and they're supposed to be nonprofit organizations
• 47:55
  and nobody makes money, right?
• 47:57
  You just falls out of the air and works in the programs.
• 47:59
  So that's the impression that a lot of people get.
• 48:03
  But that wasn't the case.
• 48:04
  We were we were running dry.
• 48:05
  We had big programs through the year where we'd have 50, we'd do a
• 48:08
  spring, winter, and fall session at home where we had our own therapeutic
• 48:12
  riding program that was running.
• 48:13
  And even with 50 regular students at, at times, three instructors half of those at
• 48:20
  times were in special needs population.
• 48:24
  We could not make ends meet.
• 48:26
  We were just, the only reason that we made it work was because of the
• 48:29
  generosity of the family that I mentioned that gave us a property after seeing
• 48:33
  the work we did at those campgrounds.
• 48:35
  Mm.
• 48:35
  With those populations.
• 48:37
  And seeing, actually seeing equestrian chaos show our first shows out
• 48:41
  there, he was a horse minded person and he thought it was incredible.
• 48:44
  He said one of his comments were, you know, when you're looking to
• 48:48
  invest in something, you want to find something that you've never seen before.
• 48:52
  You know, that was one of the things he said.
• 48:53
  And this was something he definitely never seen before.
• 48:55
  So with the things we had and the fit, it was absolutely perfect.
• 48:59
  Him and his family offered us this beautiful property to start our program.
• 49:03
  Eight Stall Barn, beautiful little house.
• 49:06
  And we lived on that property raising our family.
• 49:09
  For 12, 12 years we were on that property.
• 49:14
  Amazing opportunity.
• 49:17
  Rupert Isaacson: However, I remember I visited you on that property.
• 49:18
  Yeah, it was, it was, it was lovely with the big oaks.
• 49:21
  Jason Barrett: Absolutely.
• 49:22
  Okay.
• 49:22
  Rupert Isaacson: You knew nothing about horses.
• 49:24
  I know.
• 49:24
  You suddenly go into the specialist end of professional horsemanship serving
• 49:29
  special needs, which is a specialist thing that takes lots of training by itself.
• 49:34
  And usually people get into that after they've already got a couple of days,
• 49:41
  decades of horsemanship under their belt.
• 49:44
  Because as we know, the dangers are huge.
• 49:47
  How did you accelerate that learning curve
• 49:51
  Jason Barrett: experience?
• 49:52
  Well, we went right at the need was there, and there was
• 49:55
  no one else to fill the need.
• 49:57
  So on the one hand, I guess least
• 49:58
  Rupert Isaacson: your wife could, could mentor you to a large degree.
• 50:02
  Jason Barrett: She filled the need for the, she's an incredible horseman.
• 50:06
  I mean, she's, yeah, she
• 50:06
  Rupert Isaacson: is.
• 50:07
  Jason Barrett: She's, she's been at it for a long time.
• 50:09
  She's passionate, she's connected to the animals.
• 50:11
  She, she just knows things that I don't pick up or see 'cause
• 50:15
  of her lifetime of experience.
• 50:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 50:17
  Although I've learned, I learned a lot.
• 50:18
  You know, there's a lot more to learn.
• 50:20
  But yeah, so she, she was all of that, everything that we needed for horses.
• 50:24
  She could be that we needed to calm horses.
• 50:26
  We needed rhythmic horses.
• 50:27
  We didn't know at the time, but the rhythmic horses that we were
• 50:30
  used to training for the, for the performances and the work we did
• 50:34
  she did was were just right and I knew how to communicate and to work.
• 50:40
  Very closely with the community and the family.
• 50:42
  I've had years of over a decade of experience already in that realm.
• 50:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 50:48
  So the two coming together was, was perfect.
• 50:51
  And under the, the, like I said, under the mentorship of CEESI, the director
• 50:55
  of Camp Smile at the time, she brought Kristen in, and after that first.
• 51:01
  We did a first trial year just to kind of work with it.
• 51:04
  We'd already been working with some kids and it went great.
• 51:06
  We had a great summer season with them.
• 51:09
  And then so then she worked it out with, as the camp had been purchased,
• 51:13
  our, our owned now by United Cerebral Palsy, she worked out a grant for
• 51:17
  her to go to Equest and trained in the Path International Program.
• 51:21
  Right.
• 51:21
  That was then it was named something else, but it's become Path International.
• 51:24
  It's called
• 51:24
  Rupert Isaacson: NARA back then.
• 51:25
  Yeah,
• 51:25
  Jason Barrett: yeah.
• 51:26
  Nara, yeah, that's exactly what it was.
• 51:27
  So that's where she trained other, she became the first PATH certified instructor
• 51:31
  in Mobile, Alabama when we came back.
• 51:34
  Okay.
• 51:34
  So that's where we started.
• 51:35
  Then she got her credentials there.
• 51:37
  My knowledge was all experiential.
• 51:39
  I, I'd been there, lived there, done that.
• 51:41
  So I was key in training our people on how to treat the
• 51:46
  population as one of their own.
• 51:49
  You know, there's, you can only go so far with gloves on, you know?
• 51:53
  Yes.
• 51:54
  You have to be in the mix.
• 51:55
  You know, it only gets so personable when you're still
• 51:58
  wearing the blue rubber gloves.
• 51:59
  So, you need to know how to talk and feel and, and help others be
• 52:03
  comfortable around these loud noises or erratic actions and things like that.
• 52:08
  It's very uncomfortable for people.
• 52:09
  I didn't know that because I grew up as a child engulfing, you
• 52:13
  know, there's drool falling on me.
• 52:15
  We gotta clean up a diaper, somebody laugh because, I mean, it didn't matter
• 52:18
  to me, which was, which was something I had to learn that it really didn't
• 52:22
  matter to a lot of other people.
• 52:24
  Those things kind of set 'em back a little bit.
• 52:26
  Rupert Isaacson: I, with all my experience with autism and so on, I
• 52:29
  still shy away, you know, if I never see another diaper in my life, I'm,
• 52:33
  Jason Barrett: I'm good.
• 52:34
  I'm good.
• 52:34
  Hey, look, I'm fine with that too.
• 52:36
  Don't get me wrong.
• 52:37
  I'm not signing up for diaper change, but if it's gotta be done, we'll get it done.
• 52:42
  Yeah.
• 52:43
  So, yeah, that was it.
• 52:44
  So we came back, we started the program there.
• 52:47
  Running our program at home.
• 52:48
  We were not making ends meet though we were making enough to survive.
• 52:52
  Hmm.
• 52:52
  It's kind of like the, you know, it's the, the blessing
• 52:55
  and the curse, the golden egg.
• 52:57
  You know, if it's always there, do you have the drive to strive
• 53:01
  further than, than what's set?
• 53:03
  So we had that beautiful place to, to be provided for us.
• 53:08
  It made all of our budgeting make believe, you know, in the real world.
• 53:12
  So we had to adjust for that.
• 53:14
  And then when we started to try and adjust costs and pricing from that to try to be,
• 53:19
  there was no chance to bridge that gap.
• 53:21
  So we were pretty close.
• 53:22
  And then then the COVID, the COVID came, ah, that was our big switch up.
• 53:27
  That really switched things for us.
• 53:30
  Rupert Isaacson: So what happened?
• 53:30
  What did you do?
• 53:32
  Because the whole business must have collapsed.
• 53:33
  Yeah.
• 53:34
  Jason Barrett: Yeah, it was huge.
• 53:35
  I mean, all, most of our programming was large group oriented programming.
• 53:40
  You know, we couldn't be in large groups anymore, so we lost all of our
• 53:43
  spring and fall camps all of our summer camp programming and all in all, and
• 53:49
  over three years, we, we, we ended up operating at a third of our budget,
• 53:55
  which if we were not in that home, there would've been, it was done deal.
• 54:00
  And it was close to the point of being a done deal.
• 54:03
  As nothing was coming online fast enough.
• 54:05
  The horses gotta stay, keep eating.
• 54:07
  We've got 10 horses at the time, 10, 12 horses at the time.
• 54:11
  So that was tough.
• 54:12
  We were still doing, so 2019, we did our last as I mentioned, e equestrian chaos
• 54:16
  was the fundraiser, backyard fundraiser for our therapeutic riding school.
• 54:21
  We'd make, you know, a thousand dollars.
• 54:23
  What did you
• 54:23
  Rupert Isaacson: do in this backyard fundraiser, because this
• 54:25
  has gone on to become a huge show.
• 54:28
  So
• 54:28
  Jason Barrett: yeah,
• 54:29
  Rupert Isaacson: tell us about this.
• 54:30
  Backyard fundraiser, sequestering chaos,
• 54:33
  Jason Barrett: Paper mache masks and kids hopping around over
• 54:36
  each other's back at, at a camp.
• 54:38
  That's just the silliest little playful thing.
• 54:40
  Introducing horses for those who could start to ride.
• 54:43
  And, and eventually we, we have a team of, you know, at our biggest
• 54:48
  show, 15, 15 to 16 members on the stage, and half of those are part of
• 54:54
  our rr Therapeutic writing students.
• 54:56
  So we, it began very slow.
• 54:58
  It was like a, it was the it was the, the fun and excitement of the do good work
• 55:03
  that kept, kept people coming back, you know, for more so our, our volunteers.
• 55:07
  Would you putting
• 55:07
  Rupert Isaacson: special needs kids into an equestrian circus performance many
• 55:14
  people would say this can't be done.
• 55:16
  Others would say it's too dangerous.
• 55:19
  How did you do it and how did you do it safely?
• 55:22
  Jason Barrett: My wife is incredible for one.
• 55:23
  So she, she, she did a lot working together.
• 55:26
  You just take your time.
• 55:28
  It's little steps, baby steps.
• 55:30
  So, for instance, we have one of our students was autistic and he was he
• 55:34
  is, he is a hitter or runner, you know, he likes to, likes to smack
• 55:38
  and get out of the way at times.
• 55:39
  Lash out and then un split.
• 55:41
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:42
  It's quick shot and then gone.
• 55:44
  And the man, he talk about a runner, man, you gotta, you
• 55:46
  gotta work, catch that dude.
• 55:48
  But that we would work at time, you'd find something he liked, you'd find
• 55:51
  he happened to like hot Cheetos.
• 55:53
  So we'd sit him on a horse and hold out a bag of hot Cheetos and he'd reach down low
• 55:58
  and start to work on the, the abdominal side muscles to worry about actually
• 56:02
  being able to stand up on a moving horse and move his leg off the saddle.
• 56:05
  Lots of little baby steps starting at
• 56:08
  Rupert Isaacson: And what did you eventually get him?
• 56:09
  What did you eventually get him doing?
• 56:11
  Jason Barrett: He did, he performed in the show.
• 56:12
  He was in our last performance he was standing on the horse in
• 56:16
  what they call the Hippodrome.
• 56:17
  So he is standing on the, on the shoulders of the horse, is feeding some
• 56:21
  straps tall above the sky in a full extension with lights and sound and
• 56:26
  everything jamming around the arena.
• 56:28
  The horse going in a
• 56:28
  Rupert Isaacson: run
• 56:29
  Jason Barrett: in a run in a circle around you.
• 56:31
  Be
• 56:31
  Rupert Isaacson: incredible.
• 56:32
  Jason Barrett: And this is someone who's barely verbal.
• 56:34
  He's nonverbal.
• 56:35
  Yeah, absolutely nonverbal.
• 56:37
  It's certainly incredible.
• 56:39
  Even I is
• 56:39
  Rupert Isaacson: a special needs dad who runs equestrian programs.
• 56:42
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 56:43
  Rupert Isaacson: Looking on in impressed, flabbergasted.
• 56:46
  Yeah.
• 56:47
  You guys could do.
• 56:48
  I remember when I brought Rowan, my son out to you guys in 2019.
• 56:53
  And Ali and the team Brooke, you know, is also part of
• 56:56
  your team who's so incredible.
• 56:57
  Shout out to Brooke.
• 56:58
  I had my son standing up.
• 57:01
  On the back of a horse.
• 57:02
  And this is a, despite the fact that, you know, he's grown up
• 57:05
  with horses around me, he has the normal sort of autistic anxiety.
• 57:13
  Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.
• 57:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 57:14
  Rupert Isaacson: And but the little micro structured micro steps that
• 57:20
  Sise and Brooke took him through, and then the absolute rock solid training
• 57:27
  that was in that horse, that there was just no question in anyone's mind
• 57:31
  that one could trust this animal.
• 57:33
  Was like something I, you know, I, I, I travel in 40 countries
• 57:37
  doing trainings all the time.
• 57:39
  You just don't see this, you know.
• 57:42
  Jason Barrett: We're aware now, you know, it's, it's always that adage, you,
• 57:45
  you, you don't, you can't see yourself, you don't see your children grow up.
• 57:47
  They're right there with you.
• 57:48
  All of a sudden they're grown up.
• 57:49
  It's the same thing with this type of work.
• 57:51
  It's, for us, it is so normal and so possible.
• 57:55
  It's hard to imagine someone thinking it's not possible.
• 57:58
  Yeah.
• 57:58
  Which, which is, you know, a different, it's hard to see both sides of that
• 58:01
  coin, you know, when you've already been to this side of it's just a
• 58:04
  matter of slow steps and, and taking your time and following their lead.
• 58:09
  Much like you've learned in all of your work.
• 58:11
  It's all about following them.
• 58:13
  Rupert Isaacson: It is and
• 58:14
  Jason Barrett: following, finding who they are and what they're attracted to
• 58:17
  Rupert Isaacson: following their and for us, their passion.
• 58:19
  Yeah.
• 58:19
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 58:19
  You gotta have their passion and, and, and it's got to it's got to engage them.
• 58:23
  It has to engage them.
• 58:24
  And what we found a lot of times in our ther therapeutic writing program
• 58:28
  is that, yeah, we'd be good for a few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe
• 58:32
  even a whole year, but eventually it wasn't enough to keep them engaged.
• 58:37
  Some, some could do the same thing over and over forever.
• 58:39
  Yeah.
• 58:39
  But many would lose interest, or especially if they were on the autism
• 58:44
  spectrum or, or a DHD really high, high functioning, high energy, you know,
• 58:49
  those people needed something more.
• 58:51
  I some agree.
• 58:52
  Rupert Isaacson: I mean, one, one of the difficulties that I so often
• 58:55
  encounter with the whole therapeutic writing thing is that it's, it's boring.
• 59:00
  You know, it's, it's dumbed down.
• 59:01
  I mean, who wants to be led around in circles slowly,
• 59:05
  Jason Barrett: right.
• 59:06
  Rupert Isaacson: For more than a few times.
• 59:09
  Jason Barrett: Right.
• 59:09
  Rupert Isaacson: And then if it's not gonna develop into anything, well,
• 59:12
  yeah, you're probably gonna let it go.
• 59:14
  And then, you know, the work we do with.
• 59:17
  Veterans and so on.
• 59:18
  And you know, you get someone back from ex special forces guy back
• 59:22
  from a hot zone and you tell him to put a helmet on for safety.
• 59:26
  Yeah, yeah.
• 59:27
  And lead him or her around in a slow circle and they're just
• 59:33
  laughing at you, you know?
• 59:34
  It only goes so
• 59:35
  Jason Barrett: far like no wife.
• 59:38
  Yeah.
• 59:39
  That's, that's, that's that's the way it is.
• 59:41
  I think that people intend well but there's another horrible consequence of it
• 59:45
  being boring is that the horses get bored.
• 59:47
  Rupert Isaacson: As you may know, if you've been following my work,
• 59:49
  we are also horsey folk here.
• 59:52
  And we have been training horses for many, many years in the manner of
• 59:57
  the old classical dressage masters.
• 1:00:00
  This is something which is often very confusing for people.
• 1:00:04
  We shine a light on that murky, difficult stuff and make it crystal clear.
• 1:00:09
  If you'd like to learn to train your horse in the manner of the old masters and
• 1:00:14
  really have fun and joy for you and your equine, go to our website, heliosharmony.
• 1:00:19
  com Sign up as a premium member.
• 1:00:22
  and begin to take the Helios Harmony course, which will take you from zero
• 1:00:27
  to the Piaf, where the horse is dancing on the spot in hand on the ground.
• 1:00:32
  And then from there, you can develop out to anywhere you want to.
• 1:00:37
  Heliosharmony.
• 1:00:38
  com to unlock the secrets of the old masters.
• 1:00:42
  Jason Barrett: They do.
• 1:00:42
  I mean, the horses lose enthusiasm as well.
• 1:00:46
  These are living creatures just like us.
• 1:00:47
  They gotta have a purpose and a reason as well.
• 1:00:49
  And, and if you live with them enough, you actually know that firsthand.
• 1:00:52
  Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  So for us.
• 1:00:55
  I mean, without our herd.
• 1:00:56
  I mean, fortunately Kristen is an incredible horse person, and she had that
• 1:01:01
  training for the type of circus riding the rhythmic movement of the horse that is
• 1:01:06
  required to accomplish all the other feats that you would see them do on a stage.
• 1:01:11
  Was just the basic, you know, we came here and put a, put a hay ground, hay
• 1:01:15
  hay ringing on the ground and we're free lunging horses in a hay ringing out there.
• 1:01:20
  And everyone in town is like, what the hell?
• 1:01:23
  How do you do that?
• 1:01:25
  Why is your horse not jumping out of the hay ringing or
• 1:01:27
  stepping over the hay ringing?
• 1:01:28
  And it, and for me not being a horsepower, I didn't know
• 1:01:30
  what they were talking about.
• 1:01:31
  I didn't know you had to have a round pin with walls and panels.
• 1:01:34
  I was like, our horses do that in this circle.
• 1:01:36
  It is perfectly fine.
• 1:01:37
  So there is a measure of training that matters.
• 1:01:39
  You know, we, we, yeah, we have, they were just incredible.
• 1:01:42
  She did a wonderful job with our legacy herd, that first one that started us.
• 1:01:46
  It's so sad watching them.
• 1:01:48
  It's sad and fulfilling watching them move into the retirement life.
• 1:01:52
  'cause we're at that point where we're transitioning to the next herd and Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  And the work that they've done was just incredible.
• 1:01:57
  Without the horses, there's nothing.
• 1:01:59
  There was
• 1:01:59
  Rupert Isaacson: nothing.
• 1:01:59
  No.
• 1:02:00
  A hundred, I wholeheartedly agree.
• 1:02:02
  But yet the skill levels are insane.
• 1:02:05
  So just for, to paint a picture for listeners and viewers.
• 1:02:10
  When you go and see an equestrian chaos show, and I think you might
• 1:02:13
  wanna Google equestrian chaos, what you're gonna see is badass shit.
• 1:02:21
  You're gonna see this team of expert girl riders doing mounted archery,
• 1:02:28
  but really difficult mounted archery while in the craziest positions
• 1:02:37
  on running horses accurately.
• 1:02:39
  And then you're gonna see them pull all kinds of stunts that are incredibly
• 1:02:44
  dangerous in life threatening.
• 1:02:45
  And yet you're gonna see them Roman riding, standing on the back of two
• 1:02:48
  horses doing extraordinary things.
• 1:02:50
  And then you're gonna see them bringing special needs people into the show.
• 1:02:56
  It's a mindblower.
• 1:02:58
  And one of the things which has been so rewarding for me, kind of
• 1:03:02
  cheering you guys from the sidelines.
• 1:03:05
  I'm sort of feel like a bit of a little cheerleader with my pompoms is you've
• 1:03:09
  now achieved this level of success where you travel nationally with this show as
• 1:03:17
  well as maintaining this program at home.
• 1:03:21
  How did it, how did it transform from this backyard of, I know
• 1:03:27
  COVID happened, you had to rethink.
• 1:03:30
  Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:30
  Rupert Isaacson: But that was it.
• 1:03:32
  But you suddenly achieved a kind of level of success, which many
• 1:03:37
  aspire to, I think, but few achieve.
• 1:03:40
  Well, how did you, how did you do it?
• 1:03:43
  Jason Barrett: I, I, you have to venture outside of your
• 1:03:45
  comfort zone and where you start.
• 1:03:47
  For sure.
• 1:03:47
  Well, indeed, but give
• 1:03:48
  Rupert Isaacson: us, give
• 1:03:49
  Jason Barrett: us, that's a big part actually.
• 1:03:50
  How, so?
• 1:03:51
  The reason where that matters is that we didn't know what we had here.
• 1:03:56
  We didn't know how spectacular what we were doing was, we really didn't.
• 1:04:02
  We knew it was great, but we grew it around our family and friends who just
• 1:04:06
  saw, oh, that's what you do, you know, that's what you're doing out there.
• 1:04:09
  You know, so there's a girl hanging upside down from one foot, shooting
• 1:04:12
  a bow and hitting the target.
• 1:04:13
  Well, you know, they do that all the time.
• 1:04:15
  So this was our back, this was our everyday life and everyone that we knew
• 1:04:19
  in this small town of 200,000 that that would be around to see it, there was
• 1:04:25
  no real growth or excitement there.
• 1:04:28
  The minute COVID hit and we had to shut down our programs
• 1:04:31
  with the therapeutic writing.
• 1:04:33
  We took our act to a circus as an act.
• 1:04:37
  We put it in the show, and then from.
• 1:04:40
  A real performance audience.
• 1:04:42
  An audience who came for paid professional performances, they went nuts.
• 1:04:47
  You know, they thought it was absolutely incredible.
• 1:04:49
  The performers we were working with, they thought it was incredible.
• 1:04:52
  They, you know, it was like we pulled things off that they
• 1:04:55
  didn't think would happen.
• 1:04:56
  If something looked like it was going to go wrong, it was fixed.
• 1:04:58
  You know, we're very, we run a tight ship, aside from the chaos in the name
• 1:05:03
  we expect our show to be like clockwork.
• 1:05:06
  We're gonna, yeah.
• 1:05:07
  The chaos
• 1:05:07
  Rupert Isaacson: comes from the, the audience sitting on the edge of their
• 1:05:09
  seat, you know, expecting a wreck.
• 1:05:13
  Jason Barrett: They don't know what they're about to see it.
• 1:05:14
  No one knows it.
• 1:05:15
  We've found on the road that even if you go, so we're online everywhere.
• 1:05:19
  Equestrian, chaos equestrian chaos.com
• 1:05:21
  is our website.
• 1:05:22
  We've got a video, talks about our family and some really cool vi There's
• 1:05:25
  lots of stuff out there, but traveling around the country, we've come to find
• 1:05:29
  that at any location we go to, it's a two to three year lull before they
• 1:05:34
  actually figure out what the hell they're
• 1:05:37
  on
• 1:05:37
  the stage.
• 1:05:38
  So we'll have, it's been really exciting.
• 1:05:39
  This in our third year in some of our locations, people are showing up.
• 1:05:43
  So we'll do a series of two to four shows a day depending on what
• 1:05:47
  we're, what we're engaged with.
• 1:05:49
  And that first show is generally lagging a little bit.
• 1:05:52
  But not anymore.
• 1:05:53
  Now people know who we are and we're showing up at the very first show.
• 1:05:56
  They're just packed out with people and, and they, they've come to see it.
• 1:06:00
  So it's really neat.
• 1:06:01
  So in that vein, while we were home, you got, there was none of that.
• 1:06:05
  Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  The minute we went out to the circus, we heard that.
• 1:06:07
  We're like, wow, that's something.
• 1:06:09
  Then we got a job for the, somebody called us.
• 1:06:12
  We got a job for another fair.
• 1:06:13
  We went and tried that blew their minds.
• 1:06:16
  That's when we had I think that was the first one.
• 1:06:18
  We had a lady walk up to the side of the arena after the show.
• 1:06:22
  And she was in her seventies and she was, she was a stout
• 1:06:25
  woman, an intimidating woman.
• 1:06:27
  Like she could probably whoop my ass.
• 1:06:29
  And and she had a grimace on her face and she came to the rail and,
• 1:06:33
  and she was already tearing up, like trying to hold her grimace
• 1:06:37
  for some reason, but still crying.
• 1:06:39
  And she said she said you guys.
• 1:06:42
  Have just put on display for me, a 70 year dream.
• 1:06:46
  I was the first woman to ever compete in the United States and mounted horseback
• 1:06:50
  archery when they didn't want us to ride.
• 1:06:53
  And what you just did, as she's crying the whole time and I'm
• 1:06:56
  like, damn, I had no idea.
• 1:06:59
  You know, that's the connection I'm used to because of our life
• 1:07:02
  with the work and the population.
• 1:07:03
  We'll win.
• 1:07:03
  You, you get to feel heart very often.
• 1:07:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:06
  In that population, when you give, you get it.
• 1:07:09
  And so this was that under this new circumstance.
• 1:07:12
  So for me that was a big moment big moment to credibly.
• 1:07:19
  I don't know, just to impress on me how.
• 1:07:22
  This can affect people, how people can take this art so deeply and
• 1:07:26
  now since then, hundreds of other conversations similar to that children
• 1:07:30
  just in awe and inspired to see you little girls looking at my daughter
• 1:07:34
  out there absolutely killing it.
• 1:07:37
  Thinking that, Hey, I could do that serious.
• 1:07:39
  Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  She's a role model for, you know, it's like, it's, it's just what a
• 1:07:43
  life, you know, what a life, yeah.
• 1:07:45
  In,
• 1:07:45
  Rupert Isaacson: in terms of female empowerment, you know, because I
• 1:07:47
  don't think you guys ever really started it with that in mind.
• 1:07:51
  I think it's just, if can correct me if I'm wrong, but it was just
• 1:07:55
  that those, that was the team you decided get, there's more horse.
• 1:07:59
  It could have just as easily been some boys in the team.
• 1:08:02
  It just happened not to be, but I think you guys have become a bit
• 1:08:04
  of an icon of female empowerment.
• 1:08:08
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 1:08:08
  It's, it's it's exciting.
• 1:08:09
  I mean, it's my, my.
• 1:08:11
  My wife and my daughter out there.
• 1:08:13
  And Brooke, as you mentioned Brooke Barre.
• 1:08:15
  She leads our therapeutic writing programming.
• 1:08:17
  Now.
• 1:08:17
  She's a, a graduate of the University of South Alabama.
• 1:08:20
  She's going into this therapeutic sports recreation.
• 1:08:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:23
  So she could continue this work from a preteen years.
• 1:08:26
  I need question,
• 1:08:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Equine Assisted World podcast, actually.
• 1:08:29
  I think yeah.
• 1:08:30
  Yeah.
• 1:08:30
  She's,
• 1:08:31
  Jason Barrett: she's just a beautiful person.
• 1:08:32
  But to see her out there my wife and my daughter feeling that, and then
• 1:08:38
  having the background of working with her and seeing the need in the world
• 1:08:42
  from people and being willing to share that, it's a different, it's just
• 1:08:46
  we've got a different thing going.
• 1:08:48
  You know, there's, there's something, it's not just performance.
• 1:08:51
  There's a whole lot of heart behind it that's been built for decades, you know?
• 1:08:55
  Well, naturally,
• 1:08:55
  Rupert Isaacson: because,
• 1:08:56
  Jason Barrett: I mean,
• 1:08:56
  Rupert Isaacson: you've got, it's really neat.
• 1:08:57
  You've got, you know, you talked about this one autistic boy,
• 1:09:00
  getting him to be standing up on the running horse and pulling stunts.
• 1:09:03
  I remember seeing at your show, which you were actually still running as
• 1:09:07
  a backyard fundraiser at that point.
• 1:09:09
  Tim, the the, the, the African American young man who had
• 1:09:14
  the traumatic brain injury.
• 1:09:16
  And I, I watched you guys able to get him up in a Viking costume able to handle and
• 1:09:25
  act with the staff and the, and the spear.
• 1:09:29
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  He's an
• 1:09:31
  Jason Barrett: incredible character, incredible guy.
• 1:09:33
  We we love him and, and hopefully with the soundtrack of a rap
• 1:09:35
  Rupert Isaacson: song that he had written,
• 1:09:37
  Jason Barrett: he
• 1:09:37
  Rupert Isaacson: had written Right.
• 1:09:38
  You know, people just don't do this kind of thing.
• 1:09:42
  You talk about heart.
• 1:09:43
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:09:44
  Alright, so just backtrack a little bit.
• 1:09:45
  So you said COVID hit the it for a while, the therapeutic.
• 1:09:51
  Program collapsed.
• 1:09:52
  You've since rebuilt it.
• 1:09:53
  Clearly.
• 1:09:54
  Jason Barrett: We never, it never collapsed.
• 1:09:55
  Okay.
• 1:09:56
  It just shrunk to much smaller measures.
• 1:09:58
  We have.
• 1:09:58
  I mean, we've got kids that have been with us since they were in preschool, you know?
• 1:10:02
  Oh yeah.
• 1:10:02
  One of our girls is a professor now at the University of Florida.
• 1:10:06
  Wow.
• 1:10:06
  Know who started in our, in our program.
• 1:10:09
  So we, we don't wanna lose anybody.
• 1:10:11
  So a few of those people that, so here's question,
• 1:10:14
  Rupert Isaacson: but, but you said you, you had to rethink.
• 1:10:15
  Okay.
• 1:10:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:10:17
  And you say you, you went to a circus.
• 1:10:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:10:20
  That sounds like there were a bunch of small steps that you've sort of left
• 1:10:23
  out because it's hard thing to take.
• 1:10:26
  One's act out there.
• 1:10:27
  You didn't have a sort of existing track record of, I know, I know that Sise had
• 1:10:32
  been riding in that equestrian show some years before and so on and so on, but it's
• 1:10:38
  another thing to then go to a professional outfit and say, we need a job.
• 1:10:42
  We're amazing.
• 1:10:43
  Give us a job.
• 1:10:43
  How, how did you do that?
• 1:10:46
  Jason Barrett: Well, the, the connection with the family made that possible, and he
• 1:10:49
  knew the quality of what we could produce.
• 1:10:53
  And so that was an, that was an easy one.
• 1:10:55
  We got lucky on the next one, the West Virginia Renaissance Festival.
• 1:10:59
  We had a friend that suggested us to 'em.
• 1:11:01
  They were a small fair and they wanted something new, so we went up and did it.
• 1:11:05
  And they had no idea what they were getting.
• 1:11:06
  They were very well pleased.
• 1:11:08
  So, so yeah, so that, that was pretty much, it happened just that quickly.
• 1:11:11
  Honestly, there was not a lot.
• 1:11:13
  We were in a, we were in a very tough situation at the time.
• 1:11:16
  The property that we were well, one, we were bottoming out in every direction.
• 1:11:21
  We had spent every dime of our savings just to keep things going.
• 1:11:24
  So it was, it was serious conversations about, Hey, did we get rid of some horses?
• 1:11:29
  We try this again later.
• 1:11:30
  That kind of thing.
• 1:11:32
  Equestrian chaos saved Ali's school, equestrian arts.
• 1:11:35
  We would have closed, we did not have to.
• 1:11:37
  But once EC got on the road, we hit that next job.
• 1:11:40
  Every job we've done, somebody saw us and wants us.
• 1:11:44
  It's just that unique and that different, so that's, that's how fast.
• 1:11:47
  What's your show
• 1:11:47
  Rupert Isaacson: circuit currently?
• 1:11:49
  Jason Barrett: Right now we do Florida to Oregon, Washington, Ohio, Texas.
• 1:11:54
  I mean, it's a big loop.
• 1:11:56
  I think we did 2,800 miles out to Oregon, Washington, 2,400 miles back
• 1:12:01
  to Ohio, another thousand back here.
• 1:12:03
  You know, a thousand down to Florida.
• 1:12:04
  We're heading to Texas in a week and a half for three weekends out there.
• 1:12:09
  Very soon.
• 1:12:10
  That'll be another 900 miles or so.
• 1:12:12
  So we are cooking.
• 1:12:14
  The goal is to right now, it's just, it's just been amazing to be able to breathe.
• 1:12:19
  Yeah, we've always, we've had some, we've had some help along the way for sure.
• 1:12:24
  Some, some great help, but no.
• 1:12:27
  Change your life.
• 1:12:28
  Okay, you can do this now, help.
• 1:12:29
  You know, we've got the funding and the budgeting to have employees.
• 1:12:32
  We gotta, you know, that's never happened.
• 1:12:33
  So we've always been earning it.
• 1:12:35
  So then we turned around and to see equestrian chaos all of a sudden earn it.
• 1:12:39
  And again, we're starting in a field we don't know.
• 1:12:43
  You know, we've, there's all that.
• 1:12:45
  I mean, people have been performing for 20 years to the point where we are
• 1:12:48
  jumping in at, you know, at that level.
• 1:12:51
  So we don't know what the rates are.
• 1:12:53
  We don't know, you know, so we've so we've done very well in the last
• 1:12:58
  three years finding out our value and our worth and pushing and, and
• 1:13:02
  so in all, and in the long run.
• 1:13:05
  The funding from Equestrian Chaos.
• 1:13:06
  We take donations from every show that we do that goes directly to the
• 1:13:10
  school, as well as our contract prices.
• 1:13:12
  Everything funnels right back into the nonprofit organization to
• 1:13:16
  try and keep it alive and going.
• 1:13:18
  And we are making progress.
• 1:13:19
  Finally, we're finally able to do some work on the new property.
• 1:13:22
  We have a beautiful 20 acre property that we'll be able to develop now to put
• 1:13:26
  the things we need in place to, to do the kind of work we were doing before.
• 1:13:30
  But yeah, we still keep it going.
• 1:13:31
  We have about 14 special needs students that come to our program.
• 1:13:35
  When we're home, we want to cut our road time down.
• 1:13:38
  Right now we're on the road better than eight months, which is too long.
• 1:13:42
  We wanna do six and six and be able to keep it going and then eventually
• 1:13:46
  have the staff we need to run both for the, at the same time so we can keep
• 1:13:50
  the word going out, keep expanding the awareness, showing it off in a
• 1:13:54
  big way, and then bringing it home and growing it deeper and bigger and better.
• 1:13:57
  So it's exciting, it's fun.
• 1:14:00
  It
• 1:14:00
  Rupert Isaacson: is exciting.
• 1:14:01
  So people listening and watching, I'm talking to you, listeners and watchers.
• 1:14:07
  You can donate to equestrian chaos.
• 1:14:10
  You can help them with their nonprofit special needs work
• 1:14:15
  because what I've seen is
• 1:14:23
  you set people free.
• 1:14:25
  The mind blowing
• 1:14:31
  with that, you know, that's not a flippant use of the word
• 1:14:36
  I, radical life change that I've seen you guys bring into the lives of people who
• 1:14:48
  had been written off, liked him after his.
• 1:14:56
  Life shattering traumatic brain injury where he was, I know he was being
• 1:15:00
  scouted, you know, as a pro football player or not from a wealthy family,
• 1:15:06
  African American southern boy made good through football, getting scouted
• 1:15:14
  on that track and then wham and, and
• 1:15:20
  in a wheelchair for life and barely able to talk and unable to be independent.
• 1:15:26
  And rocky, the impossible, nonverbal, autistic boy that you
• 1:15:34
  got being a star in the show.
• 1:15:36
  And numerous, numerous others that I've seen.
• 1:15:40
  There just aren't many people out there
• 1:15:45
  giving opportunities like this where it's not just like, you know, be the
• 1:15:49
  best you can be and all those cliches.
• 1:15:53
  It's, it's doing stuff that if you were able-bodied and neurotypical, you might
• 1:15:59
  very, very well never be able to do.
• 1:16:03
  That's a, that's a big bragging point for them.
• 1:16:06
  Like that.
• 1:16:06
  It's a massive bragging point.
• 1:16:07
  And you should brag that, be Jesus out of it.
• 1:16:10
  Because, you know, I, I, I see some good programs out there.
• 1:16:17
  I've never seen anything like you guys.
• 1:16:19
  Jason Barrett: Wow.
• 1:16:20
  Rupert Isaacson: And you, not me, you know, in Texas they say I shack,
• 1:16:24
  I shacked twice and fell down in it.
• 1:16:29
  Jason Barrett: That's,
• 1:16:30
  that's
• 1:16:30
  very Texas.
• 1:16:33
  Yeah.
• 1:16:33
  Well, it, we feel that way.
• 1:16:36
  We know, we've come to know that through it, we know the value of it.
• 1:16:39
  We are excited to watch it grow.
• 1:16:42
  Okay.
• 1:16:42
  I mean, we're looking generationally, generationally now.
• 1:16:45
  You know, my daughter's growing up, she's 18, Brooke is on her way.
• 1:16:48
  You know, there is no reason we can't drive this thing to influence thousands
• 1:16:54
  more lives in the same way that Tim felt like a superstar on top of that horse.
• 1:16:59
  He's finally, he's on the stage, he's in the limelight again.
• 1:17:01
  Yeah.
• 1:17:02
  Even if it's just for a moment, anyone who's ever been there knows
• 1:17:05
  that's a moment you hold onto.
• 1:17:07
  It's one of the ones you talk about at the end of your days.
• 1:17:10
  You know?
• 1:17:10
  So we want those moments for as many people as we can get 'em.
• 1:17:14
  Yeah.
• 1:17:14
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:17:14
  Validation, self-belief.
• 1:17:17
  You, so the obvious question now is, you know, where's it going?
• 1:17:24
  This is one of the hottest shows, equestrian shows that's,
• 1:17:28
  that's out there in the world.
• 1:17:31
  Where's it?
• 1:17:32
  What are you gonna do with it?
• 1:17:33
  What's next?
• 1:17:34
  Jason Barrett: We are continuing to, to book shows.
• 1:17:37
  We are working to build enough shows in a shorter period where we can spend
• 1:17:41
  more time at home growing the program.
• 1:17:43
  While we are on the road though, we have programs where we do trainings.
• 1:17:47
  We do we can do trainings for clinics.
• 1:17:49
  If you're out there and you're therapeutic horseback riding program
• 1:17:53
  may be dragging a little bit or it's not working the way you want, or you just
• 1:17:56
  wanna try something spicy new, something different find us, keep in touch with us.
• 1:18:00
  Once we settle into a place, a lot of the gigs that we do performing keep us in
• 1:18:05
  an area for a month or two or or longer.
• 1:18:09
  So that gives us opportunities.
• 1:18:10
  And most of the time we perform are on the weekends.
• 1:18:12
  So our hope is to get out there and to find other organizations that
• 1:18:17
  need this kind of training and help.
• 1:18:19
  We can bring programming in.
• 1:18:21
  For you that's established that we've done show you ways to change things up, to
• 1:18:26
  give new people an opportunity, maybe make you feel comfortable doing things that
• 1:18:31
  you weren't before, helping train horses.
• 1:18:33
  So we're looking to do a lot of that work on the road and even in the circuit,
• 1:18:37
  I mean, we're traveling with other performers and vendors who travel the
• 1:18:41
  same circuits and they have special needs population in those circuits.
• 1:18:45
  So we have kids at each of the fairs that we work with in the time,
• 1:18:48
  so they're getting an opportunity for something that they don't have
• 1:18:51
  because of their transient lifestyle.
• 1:18:53
  And horses are kind of a in one place thing, you know, for most people.
• 1:18:57
  So, it's an opportunity for them to taste it.
• 1:18:59
  Then we, they, we can bring 'em up through the ranks.
• 1:19:02
  They can help with, we can introduce other.
• 1:19:04
  People to helping people.
• 1:19:06
  We, we bring the program to the stage, introduce that community.
• 1:19:09
  There's more people now that see how well this works, this
• 1:19:12
  communication between horse and humans.
• 1:19:14
  So that's where we're at.
• 1:19:16
  We're out there just, just pushing everything we do.
• 1:19:19
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, I'm hoping that you guys will go international and I,
• 1:19:22
  I was talking to your wife about this.
• 1:19:25
  So, you know, we spoke a couple of years ago about getting equestrian chaos
• 1:19:33
  to do a show of the horse boy story.
• 1:19:35
  Which I still would like instantly.
• 1:19:37
  Last year there's a special needs theater in London called Chicken Shed.
• 1:19:42
  'cause it actually started in a chicken shed Nice.
• 1:19:45
  And has now become this huge, huge thing.
• 1:19:47
  And they now also are affiliated with a university there where they
• 1:19:52
  have the first degree program for.
• 1:19:55
  Performing arts for the special needs.
• 1:19:57
  And I feel that's a way, that's a direction you guys would, could also
• 1:20:01
  logically go because you, you could really show, train people, I think, how
• 1:20:07
  to work in the circus arts, not just with horses, you know, in, in, in so many ways.
• 1:20:13
  Also with special needs.
• 1:20:14
  And I want them to do the show of the horse boy because as well,
• 1:20:20
  because their cast is about half autistic and wow, I really wanna
• 1:20:26
  see what they do with that story.
• 1:20:28
  But what they lack is.
• 1:20:32
  Understanding of the horse and understanding of how to you would
• 1:20:35
  bring that experience that would look a little bit like equestrian
• 1:20:39
  chaos into like a London theater.
• 1:20:42
  And I was chatting with, with Ali about this, and she said, oh,
• 1:20:45
  well, you know, she immediately goes, oh, well here's the solution.
• 1:20:47
  Yeah.
• 1:20:48
  And she goes, well, you know, you, you put them on vaulting barrels,
• 1:20:51
  which you then have, you know, to look like horses, and you can move those.
• 1:20:53
  And then those are, you know, your Mongolian riders or your
• 1:20:57
  spirits or your, you know, and, you know, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:01
  You guys need to be consultants on this.
• 1:21:04
  Okay.
• 1:21:05
  That's clear.
• 1:21:06
  That's the,
• 1:21:06
  Jason Barrett: yeah,
• 1:21:07
  Rupert Isaacson: so I'm hoping lightning, lightning thoughts
• 1:21:09
  on that, you guys to London?
• 1:21:10
  Jason Barrett: Yeah, that sounds great.
• 1:21:11
  Yeah, we'd, we'd love to.
• 1:21:12
  We we've had a couple stabs.
• 1:21:14
  We had somebody from Ride on Festival interest one time we had
• 1:21:17
  something out of Brazil interest.
• 1:21:19
  So there's, there's, there's something gonna hit out there, but we'd love to
• 1:21:21
  do anything with you Ru It'd be great.
• 1:21:24
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:21:24
  Yeah.
• 1:21:25
  It's so, you know, viewers.
• 1:21:28
  Listeners, equestrian chaos.com.
• 1:21:33
  They're a nonprofit.
• 1:21:35
  There is a donate button, I believe.
• 1:21:38
  Donate to them because this is, this is work.
• 1:21:42
  You know, for example, if you've got a birthday coming up or something, get
• 1:21:46
  your friends to donate to them as a birthday gift to you, because I frankly
• 1:21:55
  have not seen in all the 20 years that I've been doing this work, I haven't
• 1:22:00
  seen anything as badass as equestrian chaos, including my own work, by the
• 1:22:07
  way, I thought that was pretty badass
• 1:22:09
  Jason Barrett: until Yes, sir.
• 1:22:10
  Indeed you are.
• 1:22:11
  Indeed you are.
• 1:22:12
  But like-minded birds man.
• 1:22:13
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:22:14
  This idea of of, of expanding what is possible so far outside, people talk about
• 1:22:20
  outside the box and that kind of cliche.
• 1:22:27
  It is like you created your own boxes, threw them away, created new
• 1:22:31
  ones, threw those ones away, and they created a parallel universe, in fact.
• 1:22:35
  Jason Barrett: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:36
  You know,
• 1:22:37
  Rupert Isaacson: stood on the opposite
• 1:22:38
  Jason Barrett: of a box, A quantum box stood outside running around it.
• 1:22:43
  It's, have you guys thought
• 1:22:43
  Rupert Isaacson: about doing life coaching as well?
• 1:22:45
  Because I, I, I feel that the way you've also done it sort of on a wish and
• 1:22:50
  a prayer financially, where you, you never had the silver spoon, you never
• 1:22:55
  had the big organization backing you.
• 1:22:57
  You never had any of that.
• 1:22:59
  And yet you did this show that was just so incredibly polished
• 1:23:06
  on little resources and so on.
• 1:23:10
  I, I, I feel that people could consult with you guys about
• 1:23:17
  how to get their lives unstuck.
• 1:23:23
  Jason Barrett: It's, I love people.
• 1:23:24
  I, I love them.
• 1:23:26
  We're so deep and so different and and yet so the same.
• 1:23:29
  And it seems to be, it just kind of follows in the course of what we're doing.
• 1:23:35
  We've had a lot of influence on, on people's lives from, from the experiences
• 1:23:40
  they've had with our family Yeah.
• 1:23:41
  That are tangible and leave a mark.
• 1:23:44
  So, so yeah, I, I don't know where that goes, but we're always happy to help.
• 1:23:49
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:23:50
  Now as we sort of draw to, to a close here, you started your whole life
• 1:23:58
  with this within a spiritual context.
• 1:24:04
  Although you, yourself.
• 1:24:06
  W by, if I get this right, we're not so personally religious.
• 1:24:11
  I mean, to some degree, but it was more that, that was the structure that,
• 1:24:15
  of that church that was around you at the time that created that camp.
• 1:24:18
  But of course, later the Jehovah's Witnesses got their teeth into
• 1:24:22
  your jugular, but then you managed to extract yourself and but came
• 1:24:26
  away with some great life skills.
• 1:24:29
  Where are you at now spiritually?
• 1:24:31
  What's your spirituality and, and what tips have you got for
• 1:24:34
  people who are feeling stuck, who are feeling that they can't?
• 1:24:46
  Jason Barrett: You can, you absolutely can.
• 1:24:49
  However we can beat that thought into you.
• 1:24:51
  You can, you're not stuck.
• 1:24:52
  There is opportunity and if you look around in the world, you
• 1:24:56
  will see people with far less opportunity than you have making it.
• 1:25:00
  You're, they're out there.
• 1:25:01
  You can absolutely do it.
• 1:25:04
  You have to be patient, kind to yourself.
• 1:25:06
  You gotta forgive yourself and your ignorances, you, you, you
• 1:25:10
  have to, you have to have a, a purpose, find a purpose without it.
• 1:25:16
  You'll be forever lost.
• 1:25:18
  You've gotta find some kind of purpose.
• 1:25:19
  And that can be any number of things, but you'll know it.
• 1:25:23
  Find a purpose and ask people who have found a purpose.
• 1:25:26
  Talk to folks like yourself and me who have found a talk to folks
• 1:25:28
  Rupert Isaacson: who found a purpose.
• 1:25:29
  Yeah.
• 1:25:30
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 1:25:30
  Talk to folks who found a purpose, because you may not know how to get there.
• 1:25:34
  You may not even know what strikes you until you've had a
• 1:25:37
  conversation with somebody who knows the right questions to ask.
• 1:25:40
  You know, you can't see yourself as well as you think you do.
• 1:25:44
  So it's always good to talk to somebody, you know?
• 1:25:49
  Rupert Isaacson: I think, you know, and it's interesting 'cause you are the mc
• 1:25:52
  and your job is to communicate the show.
• 1:25:55
  And I've watched you do it.
• 1:25:56
  I've also watched you structure it.
• 1:25:57
  I've watched you create the music for, I've watched you
• 1:26:00
  create the backdrops for it.
• 1:26:01
  I've watched you create the aesthetic.
• 1:26:03
  I've watched you run the thing, develop the thing.
• 1:26:10
  You are a very good organizer.
• 1:26:13
  But yeah.
• 1:26:14
  Back to the spirituality, what's your relationship with
• 1:26:18
  the big GOD at this point?
• 1:26:22
  Jason Barrett: I'm, I'm grateful for this incredible life I have.
• 1:26:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:26:25
  I mean, I think if you live in gratitude, you're, you're already
• 1:26:28
  on your way to spirituality.
• 1:26:30
  I think that gratitude gives you the opportunity to see.
• 1:26:33
  The beauty in each person, regardless of their shortcomings.
• 1:26:37
  I take the principles that I learned from the life of Jesus, the idea of
• 1:26:42
  total peace and, and zen whatever.
• 1:26:45
  All those religions have thoughts that have spawned from men or from
• 1:26:49
  some higher power with ideas that are, that are great and some that aren't.
• 1:26:54
  You have to, you have to source it out.
• 1:26:56
  You have to try it.
• 1:26:57
  But there's nothing will ever go wrong with finding a purpose, lending a
• 1:27:02
  helping hand sharing your heart with someone or making the opportunity
• 1:27:06
  for someone to feel comfortable enough to share their heart with you.
• 1:27:10
  If you do those things, it's going to lead to something, something better.
• 1:27:13
  Even if it's uncomfortable, even if it stings, it hurts so spiritually.
• 1:27:17
  I'm just looking forward to the future.
• 1:27:18
  I don't know what the big guy has in store, but I'm grateful
• 1:27:21
  for what I have so far.
• 1:27:22
  If he is had a part in that, I'm, I'm really thankful.
• 1:27:26
  I'm looking forward to being exciting ride.
• 1:27:28
  Rupert Isaacson: It seems that what you're saying is, a formula of cultivate
• 1:27:31
  gratitude and seek active mentorship, talk to people who have a life purpose.
• 1:27:41
  It seems that you've almost coming up with that as an equation.
• 1:27:45
  Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.
• 1:27:46
  That's, that's, that's the, that's the, if there's a third part,
• 1:27:49
  it's don't quit ruminating the, the negative things in your life
• 1:27:54
  or the bad problems in your head.
• 1:27:56
  That would be the third part.
• 1:27:57
  You've gotta shut that shit down somehow.
• 1:27:59
  And how did you shut that shit down?
• 1:28:02
  Trying over and over again, you know?
• 1:28:03
  Yeah.
• 1:28:04
  You know, you, you, you made the wrong decision.
• 1:28:06
  Something, something you did bitch you in your ass and your wife told
• 1:28:09
  you you shouldn't have done that.
• 1:28:10
  You know, you're going to have to let it go at some point.
• 1:28:12
  You can't be upset about it forever.
• 1:28:14
  You, you gotta roll past it.
• 1:28:15
  You, you know, same thing if anything can happen in your life, but there
• 1:28:18
  is tomorrow, there is today, there are the people standing around you
• 1:28:22
  that are attached to you and by you and you've got to let, I hear so
• 1:28:26
  many times people just say the same thing over and over and it's the bad
• 1:28:30
  thing that they have in their life.
• 1:28:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:28:32
  You've gotta cut that cycle.
• 1:28:33
  So yeah, those three things.
• 1:28:35
  Find a purpose, talk to someone with a purpose.
• 1:28:38
  Don't regurgitate your troubles over and over again.
• 1:28:41
  Tell your confidant and then let it be.
• 1:28:43
  And then
• 1:28:44
  Rupert Isaacson: I feel that, yeah, that gratitude certainly helps me with that.
• 1:28:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:28:49
  You know, you, you're probably familiar with this phrase from the
• 1:28:52
  Bible 'cause you spent so much time.
• 1:28:54
  In the Bible.
• 1:28:55
  But from New Testament one, you know, the idea of turning the
• 1:28:58
  other cheek if someone slaps you.
• 1:28:59
  Yeah.
• 1:29:00
  Right.
• 1:29:00
  And that's always been interpreted, you know, I, I always
• 1:29:03
  had a problem with that one.
• 1:29:04
  It's like, no man.
• 1:29:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:29:05
  Punch 'em in the face.
• 1:29:06
  Yeah.
• 1:29:06
  No way.
• 1:29:06
  Yeah.
• 1:29:07
  And it's bat kick him in the nut.
• 1:29:09
  And then I was listening to the work of, I dunno if you've ever
• 1:29:14
  come across Neville Godard.
• 1:29:16
  He was a really interesting sort of early law of attraction dude who
• 1:29:22
  was active in the sort of, in the forties and fifties and sixties.
• 1:29:27
  If you go on YouTube, you can find recordings by him.
• 1:29:30
  And what's really interesting about him is he interprets the
• 1:29:33
  whole thing through a New Testament lens, but not in any dogmatic way.
• 1:29:38
  In fact, what he's saying is the entire Bible is just an allegory for.
• 1:29:44
  Effectively the law of attraction.
• 1:29:46
  And he, he explains turning the other cheek as when you are looking in a
• 1:29:52
  direction that slaps you in the face, turn your face and look in a direction
• 1:29:59
  of where you actually want to go.
• 1:30:02
  And because where your attention is is where you're gonna go.
• 1:30:05
  You're gonna move towards the thing you're looking at.
• 1:30:09
  You know, that's a good way
• 1:30:09
  Jason Barrett: of looking at it.
• 1:30:10
  Rupert Isaacson: Energy goes where attention flows, where
• 1:30:12
  attention goes or whatever.
• 1:30:13
  So you literally must, it's telling you, no, not here, like touching the hot stove.
• 1:30:19
  Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.
• 1:30:20
  Rupert Isaacson: Turn your gaze.
• 1:30:22
  Really?
• 1:30:22
  It would be better if they said gaze.
• 1:30:24
  Jason Barrett: Yeah.
• 1:30:25
  Yeah.
• 1:30:25
  I could take that.
• 1:30:26
  Yeah.
• 1:30:26
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:30:27
  Jason Barrett: Yeah, that works.
• 1:30:28
  That works well.
• 1:30:28
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:30:30
  Yeah.
• 1:30:30
  Turn the other cheek.
• 1:30:31
  Look the other way.
• 1:30:32
  Go where you wanted.
• 1:30:33
  And that's a huge thing that we've learned, you know, the way you want.
• 1:30:35
  If you're forcing it, if you're forcing it to happen, you have to recognize
• 1:30:39
  whether you are or you're not.
• 1:30:40
  You have to have the insight to be able to tell.
• 1:30:42
  But man, if you're forcing something, you're probably not in the right place.
• 1:30:46
  Because when it fits you, you know when it comes Right.
• 1:30:49
  And somebody's after you and they want you.
• 1:30:52
  Yes.
• 1:30:52
  That, that this, that's where you go.
• 1:30:54
  Make sure you move when that happens, you know?
• 1:30:57
  But,
• 1:30:58
  Rupert Isaacson: well, it's been a pleasure.
• 1:31:02
  I'm gonna nag my listeners to donate.
• 1:31:06
  Jason Barrett: I appreciate that.
• 1:31:07
  We could certainly make good use of it.
• 1:31:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
• 1:31:09
  And more than that, I really, really strongly urge anyone who's
• 1:31:15
  listening or watching this go and check out an equestrian chaos show.
• 1:31:20
  Absolutely.
• 1:31:20
  You might think, oh yeah, I've seen circus acts.
• 1:31:23
  You haven't seen one like this.
• 1:31:25
  We'll be in
• 1:31:26
  Jason Barrett: Glad Water Texas here.
• 1:31:27
  The next three weekends starting November 5th or December 5th, we'll
• 1:31:31
  have three weekends of shows out there at the, is that Tyler Viking
• 1:31:34
  Festival?
• 1:31:34
  Tyler?
• 1:31:35
  It's near Tyler.
• 1:31:36
  Near Tyler.
• 1:31:36
  Okay.
• 1:31:36
  It's in a town called Glad Water.
• 1:31:37
  It's, it's the Yue Viking Festival.
• 1:31:39
  We've got three weekends of shows out there.
• 1:31:42
  We're gonna kill it out there.
• 1:31:43
  They've been incredible to us.
• 1:31:44
  That's one of the ones where you like, wow.
• 1:31:46
  They built their stage for us.
• 1:31:48
  They call it the equestrian Arena.
• 1:31:50
  I mean, the Chaos Arena.
• 1:31:51
  They put some beautiful stalls up for our horses.
• 1:31:54
  I mean, they set up our, our area for our camp and our rigs, and it
• 1:31:57
  just, and that's running through
• 1:31:58
  Rupert Isaacson: December, 2025
• 1:31:59
  Jason Barrett: through December?
• 1:32:00
  Yep.
• 1:32:01
  December, 2025.
• 1:32:02
  That'll be our last performances this year.
• 1:32:03
  And then we'll kick off.
• 1:32:04
  We'll have some announcements about next year's performances coming up real soon,
• 1:32:08
  but we'll be all over the country again.
• 1:32:10
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:32:10
  I'll get on my Texas people.
• 1:32:12
  Yeah.
• 1:32:13
  Yeah.
• 1:32:13
  To go up.
• 1:32:13
  Sounds good.
• 1:32:14
  All right.
• 1:32:15
  Jason Barrett: Yeah, man.
• 1:32:16
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, listen, my friend, it's been a real pleasure.
• 1:32:19
  I can't wait to reconnect again.
• 1:32:21
  In person soon.
• 1:32:22
  Jason Barrett: Absolutely.
• 1:32:23
  I was thinking the same thing.
• 1:32:24
  It'll be good to hang.
• 1:32:25
  Rupert Isaacson: Like I say, you, you and Sise are massive heroes of mine.
• 1:32:30
  I'm always, I'm in awe.
• 1:32:32
  Goes both ways brother.
• 1:32:34
  Project going,
• 1:32:35
  Jason Barrett: goes both ways.
• 1:32:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:32:38
  All right.
• 1:32:38
  Well, until the next time.
• 1:32:40
  Equestrian chaos.com.
• 1:32:42
  That's right.
• 1:32:42
  You can find them there.
• 1:32:43
  If you're listening now in December 2nd, 2025, you're in the South.
• 1:32:48
  Head on over to Glade Water.
• 1:32:49
  Is It?
• 1:32:50
  Jason Barrett: Glad Water, Texas Biking Festival,
• 1:32:54
  Rupert Isaacson: And near Tyler.
• 1:32:55
  Get your mind blown.
• 1:32:56
  Jason Barrett: Yeah, come on.
• 1:32:57
  We'll do it.
• 1:32:59
  Appreciate you Rupert, man.
• 1:33:00
  It was awesome.
• 1:33:01
  Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
• 1:33:01
  Till the next time.
• 1:33:03
  Jason Barrett: Alright, later.
• 1:33:04
  Bye.
• 1:33:04
  Bye.
• 1:33:04
  Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did.
• 1:33:09
  If you did, please help us to make more.
• 1:33:12
  Please like, subscribe, tell a friend, give us a thumbs up.
• 1:33:17
  If you'd like to support us on Patreon, please go to my website, rupertisakson.
• 1:33:22
  com.
• 1:33:23
  And if you'd like to find out about our certification courses with.
• 1:33:26
  autism, education, horsemanship, everyday shamanism.
• 1:33:30
  There's a whole range of cool stuff.
• 1:33:33
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• 1:33:37
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• 1:33:43
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• 1:33:45
  Even the smallest donation, it really helps us to keep the good content coming.
• 1:33:51
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• 1:33:52
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• 1:33:56
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• 1:33:58
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• 1:34:03
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• 1:34:05
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• 1:34:07
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• 1:34:08
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• 1:34:09
  I can't wait for our next guest and also to meet you there.
• 1:34:13
  In the meantime, remember, live free.
• 1:34:18
  Ride free.