Latest / The Unfiltered Tea with Evie / How to Build a Business That Actually Pays You with Staci Millard
Transcript
- Evie Tavares: Welcome to the Unfiltered Tea with Evie podcast where personal brands and service providers come for honest, anti-sleeves marketing advice that actually works. I'm Evie Tavares, founder of Evie Tavares Branding. And if you're tired of manipulative tactics, sleazy marketing strategies, and feeling like you're the only one who doesn't have your business altogether, you're in the right place. On this podcast, we're diving into a copywriting, personal branding strategy, business mindset, In this episode of the Unfiltered Tea with Evie, I sat down with ⁓ somebody who I really admire and has literally such a huge amount of knowledge across ⁓ business ownership, scaling, selling your business, building profitable business, and numbers, which I feel like that's a topic that as business owners, we avoid that a lot. The talk about numbers, talk about money. Welcome back to the Unfiltered Tea. I'm here with another guest episode with Stacey Millard. I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you so much for coming on. I want to take a quick moment just to thank you so much for joining me in this space just to encourage you that if there was anything that kind of sparked something for you or you felt like somebody that you know maybe needed to hear, please feel free to share the episode. ⁓ And you are excited to hear more, go ahead and subscribe and listen to more of the episodes. Staci Millard: thanks, Evie. Evie Tavares: I'm super excited. and I met at the first or second High Vibe Women. We met through High Vibe Women. I feel like a lot of the people that I have on here is through there. But Staci Millard: Yeah, they're great community builders. Evie Tavares: Absolutely. So can you, for those of you who don't know you, can you give a little bit of an idea of who you are, what you do, and how you got started in your business? And this was such ⁓ a valuable and important conversation to have. So I really can't wait for you to listen to it. So before we dive in, I'd love to introduce to you our next guest, Stacey Millard. Stacey is the founder of Thrive Accounting, a firm that helps entrepreneurs understand their numbers and use them to build stronger, more profitable businesses. At Thrive, business owners don't just file taxes, they get support to grow with strategy, confidence, and momentum. and balancing business with kids and real life. I'll be bringing in some epic guests, including business experts share their insights and real experiences in life and business. You can expect real life stories, tactical tips, ⁓ and the spicy EV moment, all served up with your morning cup of tea. So grab your tea, get cozy, and let's get into it. Staci Millard: ⁓ Stacey ⁓ I'm a mom of two girls. They're eight and ten and they definitely take up a lot of my life, but the ⁓ rest of it is a ⁓ for building businesses ⁓ am an accountant by trade have been for 20 years and I Through growing my first accounting firm. ⁓ I fell in love with Evie Tavares: I'm so excited that you're here and I can't wait to continue this journey with you. Staci Millard: the fun of like growing a business and finding freedom from it. And there's all these things that I kind of learned along the way that I was like, oh, these are, I wish people knew about these. I had an exit back in 2021, a seven figure exit. And yeah, I've been growing Thrive Accounting since I think it was like mid 2024. And we've had some massive success. And what inspires me most about it just like the feedback that we get on. Evie Tavares: She's also the host of Small Business School, a podcast that simplifies strategy for entrepreneurs. Stacey's passionate about helping business owners build a business that works for them, not the other way around. So I am more than confident that you're gonna love this conversation and I can't wait for you to dive in. So enjoy. Staci Millard: how it's changing people's, not just like their accounting, but their businesses. They're like, ⁓ this has changed my life and it makes me really happy. So yeah. Evie Tavares: Hmm. Yeah, I love that. It's a big impact, right? Because like money's, I feel like money is something that people don't usually like to talk about it, like they don't like to think about it with their business. So it's definitely like, the most important part of their business is understanding their money and knowing what to do with it and that kind of thing, right? Staci Millard: Yeah, I mean, we do have some male clients, but we work a lot with women. And what I try to explain to them is, like, we all like, I am heart led. When I ran my first business, I literally just jumped in and I was like, I'm gonna have all this impact. And I'm accountant, I went to business school, I do numbers for a living. I didn't really wanna look at the numbers. I was like, if we ⁓ just great work for people, and that's ⁓ absolutely how it worked out, I had to look at the numbers. And then when I did, All of sudden everything else got easy the way that I wanted it to. So now I explain it to people, I'm like, listen, you're never gonna get rid of the heart of your business, right? The impact and the heart is there, it's necessary. But money is like the circulation, it's like the blood flow. And it's what allows you to have that impact. And so we have to look at the money. And when we stop denying it, it's like, oh, now I get it it's just easy. So that's a lot about like... Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: what we stand for at Thrive. Evie Tavares: Yeah, and I love that picture of like money being the thing that circulates the blood around the heart of your business. I love that. ⁓ So you mentioned that you had a seven figure exit. Can you tell me a little bit about what that experience was like and what it taught you about having and growing a business? Staci Millard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm To give you a little bit of context like I came from two parents with like kind of government fortune 500 jobs They were boomers. They're like get a good job get a retirement plan safety money safety We didn't have a lot growing up. So it's like how do we how do I feel safe with money There came a point in my corporate career that I was like, I just I can't do this anymore This person doesn't care about the service like these these staff members are just like ⁓ taken advantage of it led to me like getting a consulting gig and then starting, ⁓ gave me some like financial safety. And then I was like, I'm gonna put out this free Kijiji ad. And I wanted to do well for people and had a way of like connecting, I'm like, this is how I can help you. That business did ⁓ really great. was an accounting firm. It was very local to Fort McMurray, ⁓ very traditional firm. did all the different levels of like accounting. ⁓ that you would think of like a big firm, but we did it in a small town. And along the way, like I never dreamed of exiting. That wasn't a thing for me, right? Like I ⁓ having that retirement ⁓ Like how do I save? ⁓ then when I'm 65, I'll retire. ⁓ there was just like this number of events that like my dad ended up with cancer. ⁓ My when she was born, she was sick. Like there was a number of things that happened that kept... like nagging at me in the back of my mind of like this business can't just rely on me and it was for so many reasons of like one i'm providing Stability for my team like I can't be freaking out that like i'm in the surgical ICU Four months pregnant my dad's on life support and i'm like I gotta do payroll because my team needs to be paid i'm like I can't have these systems where these people's lives depend on me so much like I have to safeguard it and there's ways right and then Looking at like, okay, well, what about the clients like some of them had important deadlines? Like how do I build this business? So it's kind of people use the words like storm proof and it wasn't about exiting It was really about how do I build this business so that it can sustain me, you know getting hit by a bus and in doing that like I just Looked at all the different things that it took to run a business. I didn't want to be a fortune 500. I don't want to lose the feeling of my business, but I did want it to be less about, you know, the S. Millard that was on the wall back then, and more about what the impact that the team collectively had. And turns out that in doing all of that, ⁓ looking okay, how does this business pay for itself? How does it make profit? How does it ⁓ have really great reputation beyond me to the clients? ⁓ How we have repeatable systems? That's actually what it takes to have a sellable business. So there was a time Late in 2020, was looking back, I was definitely experiencing some ⁓ ⁓ pandemic burnout that a lot of people felt. It was a very interesting time to be responsible for people's money ⁓ when world was like in chaos. And we didn't like we got the same news updates that everybody else did. And ⁓ so it a very interesting time to be a leader but. I was looking at like what do I want to do with this firm and I was really noticing a gap between What I wanted accounting to be and how I knew that there was some key aspects the numbers that explained to a business owner why they're doing either really well or not doing as well as they wanted ⁓ and the numbers painted a picture and I was like I want to be doing more of this like ⁓ it more information sharing it evolved more like ⁓ of partnership And the way that I had grown the firm wasn't like that. It was very like traditional accounting firm. We did a lot of personal taxes. And just like, didn't feel like what I wanted. And I remember I was like journaling in Mexico and I was like, you know, I could burn this down. Lots of people talk about like, ⁓ burn it all down. And I'm like, ⁓ would be insane because we have rent to pay. I have a team. If I'm gonna burn half of this down, like that's all gotta go, how would I pay the rent that I've locked into and all these things, right? And I was like, no, somebody really loves this business. I built a great business, I just don't love it the way it is anymore. so I decided to sell it. And in that though, a lot of the times when you sell a business, you end up with a non-compete. And so I end up like, okay, I'm leaving accounting. What I really wanted to do was consult with businesses. ⁓ wanted to teach them how to grow ⁓ their numbers. So. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: For a couple years I went into kind of consulting, but then kept getting asked over and over again of like, okay, we need these numbers, we're talking about this, like, know, how we grow our business, but the accountant or the bookkeeper, they these mistakes or they're not getting this information to us. And I kept running up against the problem of like not having a great accountant. And we white labeling, it didn't really work out with a relationship. And then finally I was like, look, I have a really great system to making this work. ⁓ have done it before and so ended up back with another accounting firm and I'm like in love with the impact but it's ⁓ how full circle it came of like I built this business, ⁓ plan to exit, ended up exiting because of like some burnout and this isn't what I wanted and in that dreamed up what I did want. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: and then didn't even realize, three or four years later, it's like, ⁓ my gosh, that is what I'm building. Didn't even connect the dots. It's not like I pulled out that blueprint and was like, okay, I'm gonna build this now. It was just like one serendipitous kind of step after another. Evie Tavares: Mm And what you mentioned that you kind of were building this one differently because you wanted it to look different. What are some like specifics around that? Staci Millard: Mm-hmm. I would say like the very first thing is ⁓ firms very traditionally are named after like the people who run them ⁓ this time is like absolutely not that was the first thing is like this is not just this is not a Stacey show this is about ⁓ We as accountants use numbers to help people grow their businesses. So Like one is like it's called thrive accounting. It talks about what we want people to feel when they do business with us Evie Tavares: Uh-huh. Staci Millard: And then number two is like how, it's like our systems and how we support people. So how we onboard clients, how we interact with them every single month instead of just once a year, how we provide them insights. We work with so many different like creative people who are like these numbers would mean nothing. And that's literally like, that's what I'm good at. That's what you're not good at. Like let's bridge the gap, right? And so we do provide written reports on like, hey, here's your goals. Here's what the numbers tell you about those goals. And this is how they're getting you to the next step. we also provide more of what we would refer to like in the past as like management accounting. So ⁓ if thinking of that CFO, back when I started, we didn't have fractional CFOs. Now they're a lot more common and like those terminology is a lot more often, but it's like, thinking about what do you need to know from a money aspect about your business and how you make decisions. You know, whether it's investing in a piece of equipment or bringing on a team member, you're like, can I afford this? How do I know? Those are the kinds of questions you want to be able to ask your money experts and like your team. And so that's what we're really like leaning into providing people. And we do it in a way that we're looking at it like, okay, you can pay for what you need because as you're growing your business, you need Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: to have the funds to go implement, right? So if you need to hire a team member, it's like you don't need to pay an accountant tens of thousands of dollars or thousands and thousands to give you an answer and then have no money to pay the team. Like things need to be affordable so that you can then grow the business. So we also look at a lot of ways of like, how do we streamline this? do we make this easy for people while leaving the money to go invest in the areas of their business that they need to. Evie Tavares: Mm And you mentioned about helping people to reach their goals. ⁓ One question that kind of popped up around that is how do you how do you people figure out what their goals are? Like, especially when it comes to money, I think like online, we see so much like months, 20, ⁓ months, million billion dollar businesses. I think setting goals like realistic goals is difficult. So how do how do you help people to approach that? Staci Millard: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so what I would say is like, I always go back to the feelings, because to me, ⁓ at it and like, I don't really have a money goal. I have a how many hours I want to work goal. ⁓ My daughters are eight and 10. I'm not going to get those years back. So I have I a goal on that. And then I'm like, OK, so how do I pay for all the team if I'm only going to work this much and I know my expenses are this much, then where do I need to be? And then I look and I'm like, Evie Tavares: and Staci Millard: Okay, I'm gonna have to do this revenue goal. But then when you put all those pieces together, you're like, ⁓ I can't achieve this. So the picture starts to come together as you're starting to paint it and you're putting all the pieces together. So usually I start with our with our clients of like, it's around the feeling, right? Like, do you is it financial freedom? Maybe it's just building in profitability. A lot of our solopreneurs, what they didn't realize is they went from something corporate to working for themselves, they increase their hourly rate, they're like, maybe paid, I don't know, $30 an hour in corporate, now they're like, charging somebody 40, and they're like, yeah, it's like 25 % more, like, I should be floating in it, right? And then all of a sudden, you're like, wait a minute, all these expenses, and I gotta work all these extra hours for marketing, and then you're left with less. So maybe it's just a goal of like, I wanna be back where I was earning what I was before, so how do I get there? Or I wanna work a few less hours, I want that freedom. But we're going back to that feeling. because even in the financial goals, usually it's about how we're gonna feel at those levels. It's not about like, I actually want 10 million. I'm like, okay, What does that provide you? ⁓ you know what your expenses are gonna look like at that level, right? So I am against all of what is out on social media where it's like XK months. ⁓ like, why you want that? Because that's probably the wrong goal. Evie Tavares: Thank Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. And else ⁓ that always wonder about as a business owner is around like budgeting. So okay, I want to make this much how does how much does that allow me to do and like investing back in the business budgeting for team members budgeting for things like events like high vibe women? Like how do you figure out that part? Staci Millard: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I think this part is really interesting because it really is so unique to everybody, right? are systems that'll tell you like you should have X amount to invest in that, ⁓ not, you if you're a product-based business versus service-based and like all these things come into play. ⁓ So actually gonna be able to tell you most of that. ⁓ It to go back to like, what do you believe in in your business? And so one of my favorite books to recommend, it's called Vivid Vision. And I talk to clients about like, well, what does your ideal day look like? And Vivid Vision's great, because it just like walks you, it's a very short book, but basics behind it is that you're really creating a very solid vision of what your life looks like at a certain stage. ⁓ if you are dreaming of, okay, I want to invest in ⁓ these things because they light me up, what do is we go back to sort of, five pieces that I try to fit together and when we can fit the five together we're like okay now now we've made it. The first one is is like what do you need to be paid so you mentioned that already I'm like I need this to feel comfortable in my personal life right I need this to pay the mortgage the rent take care of the kids so that's one part of it and then we have this other pieces that we've built in so we have these subscriptions that we've taken on non-negotiable I want to be in these kinds of rooms we start thinking about the expenses that we're taking on. Okay, so those are great. we also need to look at the time, the amount of time that we have available to ⁓ into all of the work, not just client facing, customer but everything that gets done for the business. So this is the amount of time that I have to do it. ⁓ And the next two pieces ⁓ are mix of. customer is because they have a specific desire right without a customer we don't have a business we really have to be dialed into something provides value to them and then it's an also the last one is offers like whatever it is you're selling whether it's a product or a service like we have to be dialed in and so ⁓ what we looking at is we have a spreadsheet we can give this away to your listeners too but when you put those five things together it really gives people a perspective of like okay I'm selling this many of something at this price. It takes me this long to deliver that. Does my client, that customer, do they feel really good about the offer? Do I have people willing to buy that? If I'm saying, you start working the picture out, you're like, okay, I need to have this much revenue. It's like, am I anywhere close to that? Do I have audience for that? If what might sell that they do want, right? ⁓ And you're it together. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: you might be looking at the expenses and you're like, I gotta do a lot of revenue to pay all these. I don't actually wanna do that. Okay, we're gonna go back to the drawing board and kind of cut some of those out. Or maybe, ⁓ you've got some investments to live off of instead of trying to earn so much from the business right away. ⁓ you can see that there's like a little shift. It's like a little give and take from each one of those pillars until you find something that fits together where you've got a customer ⁓ is really lit up because they wanna buy what you're offering. The offers that you have, those products or services, like, they work well, you can deliver on them repeatedly, the customer's raving about them. You're doing it all in the amount of time that you have to work, so you're not overworking. ⁓ paying for all your expenses and you're paying yourself. ⁓ when we work those things out, like that's the magic of business. That's when we get to have that impact where we're like, the clients are raving about us, we've done a great thing, they love what I'm selling. And then simultaneously we're like, also have a life because of the business and like, we're not doing things in spite of the business and we don't have financial stress because it all works out financially. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Amazing. I love that. would you, what do you think that every business owner should know about their money and their finances that most people don't really talk about? Staci Millard: Yeah, well, it number one is you need to know what you're spending every month. If you don't know what you've committed to, you have zero perspective on your business. And it'll be surprising to you. I think every business owner should like every six months, not not every month, but every six months, take a look at their spending and understand like, what have I? What am I committing to every month? What are my ⁓ It's like our money leaks, right? Like, where are we spending that we forgot? I think one thing that we do consistently is we underestimate our expenses and how they add up I'd a meme the other day and it was like ⁓ something about the credit card bill and like taking a look at and be like ⁓ it actually does add up to all of that and like ⁓ so people like we're guilty of that, right? We underestimate and we're overly optimistic on the revenue side. So Really having some perspective is important, but knowing what you spend is number one but the second thing is that like life-changing for especially service providers is understanding your margins. It's so interesting the people who just pay attention to revenue actually on a product-based business. There was one product-based business that we worked with who ended up deciding and to me it was a huge win who ended up deciding to leave that business and start something new entirely because she was like, I've got like massive success like I've got all these followers on social media and We have this revenue coming in and these orders coming in, but when we looked at how long it took her, I was like, okay, to fill the orders, we got to start hiring people. How long is this thing going to take to make? And it turned out she was producing it for a loss that like customers weren't willing to pay more for it. And she'd priced it in a way that she was going to have to pay more to make it than she could sell it for. And that was, it was just like, ⁓ it's just. Evie Tavares: you Staci Millard: the value isn't there, right? Like going back to the customer is like the value is not there to them. And so she shifted her business entirely and now has like found that freedom. But imagine if she hadn't looked at the numbers. So it's like understanding how much. I think our, ⁓ when we work with like marketing firms and creatives, when they've come from a place where they're a solopreneur, because when you're a solopreneur, ⁓ have a ⁓ lot of ⁓ like direct insight to how a project's going. You remember in your head what you quoted it at. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: and then you're doing the thing and you kind of, least in your gut, you know like, my gosh, I'm like way over budget on these hours, like we gotta wrap this project up or you're doing well on it. But as soon as you start ⁓ expanding hiring team, is like we lose that perspective because we're scared to ask our team to tell us how long it took, right? ⁓ So think that if we can ask people ahead of time and letting them know like, hey, the math of a small business, like, Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: How I'm able to give you a job is I quote this client this much, this is what I think it's gonna take to get that job done and here's all my other expenses. And that has to work out so that I can keep paying you so that this business exists in the long run. when we ⁓ that to our team and we're like, I'm not trying to overlook you ⁓ micromanage you, I just need to know that I'm doing my quoting job right, that getting the information from me to do your job well. Evie Tavares: with me. Staci Millard: and that we're on the right path so that we can be here doing this fun work forever. when we do that, like so many people are so scared to do it and they use the words like micromanaging. They're like, ⁓ want to micromanage my team? I'm like, you're under managing them. They actually have no idea what they're supposed to be doing or how they would do it profitably. And that's handicapping them because they get resentful and they don't want to come to work when all of a sudden one day you're stressed out because the money's not there. So I'm like talking to them upfront about Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: on a service provider team, like how long things should take is really important. just like it's so overlooked. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that was like, that was a lesson I learned as well. Like, just, again, with the quoting, like, I know, I know what I'm charging, I know how long it usually takes me to do something. And then when I'm outsourcing it, like, I think it would be a disservice. I learned anyway, it's a disservice to both of us, if I don't just give a clear expectation of like, this is how long it usually takes me, you're still learning. So it's okay if it's taking you a little bit longer. But this is how much I've bud. Staci Millard: Yeah. Evie Tavares: this is how much I budgeted for you to do this. So like, if you go over that, then there's not, that's not gonna work for me, like long-term kind of thing. It is a difficult conversation to have, but again, it's like, it's for the benefit of both of you. Staci Millard: Yes. But I think it's so different. So like if you bring somebody on and you're like, I'm willing to pay you X dollars an hour and then you just like let them run the hours. ⁓ Like money's kind of like water, it takes up the space that you give it. you're talking to creative people, like they're gonna wanna do their best, like they really wanna think it through. And then also there's like, ⁓ you know that vacation effect when you like limit people and you're like, you're going on vacation and all of a sudden like all the things get done in a day. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Staci Millard: Same thing is like with our contractors. It's like, we have 10 hours to wrap this It's like they found a way to make it work, ⁓ But when you're upfront about it, it doesn't feel like there's a loss and that's like I think psychology in business We should spend more time understanding it because ⁓ helps our human interactions of like how do we deal with team and how do we ⁓ up as a leader. It's not just like ⁓ I need to tell you what to do. It's not about that. It's that When you give people, I'm gonna pay you X dollars an hour, free rein on the hours, and then you claw that back, that's a sense of loss. And then they're wondering, well, why didn't you give me, like, didn't you know to give me that budget before? Right, so then they kind of lose faith in you too. So they're experiencing the loss, they maybe have a lack of trust, ⁓ now you have a large hurdle to overcome. ⁓ if upfront you're like, hey, client gave me X budget to get this project done. Evie Tavares: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: Are you able to do this project? These are the revisions in that budget. I actually feel like they'd be like, yeah, like there's no sense of loss attached to that. Yeah. Evie Tavares: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. So speaking, you've spoken about like creative entrepreneurs, freelancers, service providers. I feel like a lot of the ones that I know anyway can feel kind of disconnected from their money. So is there anywhere that you think that that fear or avoidance kind of comes from and how people can get past it as well? Staci Millard: Yeah, for sure. I think number one is like we weren't really taught anything about money growing up. I know a lot of families, like it just wasn't something we spoke about it wasn't something we were taught in school either. So ⁓ actually never built the habits to understand the finances. ⁓ then within our businesses, we haven't really built systems to understand them either. ⁓ ⁓ what I ask are, anybody who's wanting to DIY it, so. we do like thrive, we have done for you and that creates a level of, we report to you. like we're kind of the team that does all the work and then we report it. ⁓ So else is doing it, but we're giving you that written piece and not inherently will start to feel like, okay, ⁓ somebody like on my side and here's what they're telling me about it. ⁓ But you're not at the place that that's in the budget, then you need to set aside space to do that yourself. Now, In Canada, I'll tell you, I am not a huge fan of Profit First. ⁓ Last High Vibe, I was coaching alongside Vanessa, ⁓ Co. Love Vanessa. She's got the same opinion. It's like it doesn't work for Canadians the same way it did with Americans. Like all these different accounts and all these bank charges to do it. The thing I like about ⁓ Profit if you've ever like heard of the concept, is ⁓ it you in your money every week. Evie Tavares: ⁓ interesting. OK. Mm-hmm. Okay. Staci Millard: So if you're gonna be a DIY kind of person, that is totally okay. Like one, I suggest downloading bank, the transactions from your bank and your credit card statements, like having set up so that they are just business related. So ⁓ isn't painful when you're like, ⁓ I gotta sort through 7,000 things to find the information. Like, no, make it easy. So you've got them separate, ⁓ download it. So you're not hand typing things, right? Like again, we're talking to creatives, like we're not necessarily wanting to type all these things out, make errors. So we do it easy, download it. And then just spend a little bit of time in like categorizing it and understanding like where is the money going? If you really wanted to take it a step further, you could a budget, but I would suggest doing it mostly on what you did last year with some changes based on like any directional changes you're gonna make. Like I would always start. with like last year's numbers now is a great time, it's tax season. So like get your tax return from your accountant and then you know shift it slightly for where you wanna go next year instead of trying to like recreate the wheel. Looking at your bank statement, going through every little thing that you're spending. It's like no use some of those bigger pots of numbers and then be like okay where are we headed? And use that budget as you're taking a look at what am I spending? Is it on track with what I thought it was gonna be? And More the the number one thing the most important thing is never actually the numbers the numbers are just a signal for you that you're doing you set out to do? So am I on track to hit my goals? Whatever that was am I on track to work less and still feel financially comfortable ⁓ am I not and it's a signal that that effort that you put in got you closer to your goal or not So if the number is a signal, so if the number didn't says you didn't get there this month you didn't hit Evie Tavares: Thank Staci Millard: maybe that revenue target or you overspent, then you just look at last month's actions and you're like, well, what did I do that led me there? Why did I do that? I made this very strategic investment in my business. ⁓ is how I thought out how it's gonna give me a return on investment, ⁓ that's probably two months out. So I'm gonna look back in two months and see ⁓ that action like lead to the right results or like some of us are guilty of ⁓ like, gosh, I overspent. I wasn't feeling great, I wanted to feel good, so I overspent. How do I not do that next time? Right? Or we're like, we didn't hit our revenue goals, okay? What does that mean? ⁓ well it got a little bit busy last month. ⁓ actually stopped showing up on social, I didn't connect with anyone, my leads dried up. I that I need to build in time or automate my posting so that next time I get busy, Evie Tavares: Hmm. Staci Millard: It doesn't do that, right? Like it's all about our actions and business. It's not about like a 10K month. It's like, what did I do that got me closer to my goal or further from it? Evie Tavares: Mm And I love that you kind of bring all the pieces into it because sometimes people don't connect that my marketing affects my, like me being busy in client work and not showing up for a month is going to affect my revenue in a month or two because I'm not out there getting the leads that I need. And I think sometimes that bigger picture is kind of lost. Staci Millard: Yeah, and so I think that people need to understand that there's like two numbers that are important There's what they call lag numbers and like that's the accounting or that's a KPI That's a number that you measure and you're like did we get there or not? But there's also what they refer to as lead numbers So a lead number is like the action steps you had to take to get there and this is where when you're looking at Like budgeting that I think this is more important or even if you're looking at any of like the 12 week planners and things like that, it really is trying to get you to look at the end goal, the end result that you're wanting, that lag number, that measurable, but it's asking you like, how do you back it up to the things you need to do today to get that result? Right? And that's what we really need to understand from our numbers is like, we don't spend enough time paying attention to, oh gosh, like, I have this friend, she's in franchise and she's like, I know I need to connect with X number of people and tell them about my franchise because this many people are likely to be interested and that'll lead into this many discovery calls and then starts distilling it. I have another one who teaches online courses and it's like, that's what happens. They get to know those numbers. But if you don't know that number, that lead number, like start with something and see what result it gets you. So I connected with, you know, three potential referral partners this month, right? What did that lead to in business? What kind of results did I get? Okay, was it enough or not? Okay, well next month, now my lead number needs to be that I only need to connect with one of them because I can't serve five, right? Or maybe I do need to connect with five because how they like end up weeding out or like, it's all about the actions you take. The numbers just tell you if you were on track or not. Evie Tavares: Right. And the lead numbers, I just learned about that. That was kind of new to me, to be honest, ⁓ from Chris Harder and Lori Harder's summit. He like walked us through the like amount that we want to make our offer number of people we need to sell to and then conversion rates, which if you're not tracking that, like that's a huge, I thankfully started tracking that like middle of last year. So I had those, but then your lead numbers. So how many leads you have to get? Staci Millard: ⁓ yeah. Evie Tavares: a month, a week, whatever that looks like. Like that was all new to me as well. Staci Millard: See, and I think this is the part where, like, sometimes we lose women because we're like, that feels very strategic. ⁓ that doesn't feel very heart-led when I'm like, I have to meet 10 people so that five of them stick around long enough to hear what I do and then two of them will, ⁓ take a discovery call and one of them will sign on as a client. Like, that doesn't feel good. ⁓ I think the reframe is... Evie Tavares: Okay. Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: Not everyone is actually going to love your business, right? And for me, like, I'm looking at some of those conversion numbers when they're low, I'm like, I'm in the wrong rooms, right? Like, I'm not talking to the right people. And so I'm looking at it like, okay, I don't want to be as strategic, but am I connecting with people that feel good? Right? Like, I think sometimes for women, like, I don't know that that numbers thing feels very like Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: masculine energy and a lot of us are like, yeah, I don't like that. But can be ⁓ just reflection of did I meet new people this month? Like, do I feel like I have a number of people in my world who are interested in what they do? Right? It doesn't. If you're allergic to the the very strategic part, then like bring it back to more of the feelings piece because the reflection is the most important aspect of it. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Right. And as creatives too, like creative entrepreneurs, they're like, I just want to do the thing I love. I just want to be creative and serve people with that. But it's like, the numbers are very important. Staci Millard: Yeah, and I think that it's like finding a way to do them so that they're very low lift. So for example, like do you use an accounting software so you can just take a picture of your receipts and a lot of it gets automated so that when you do go look at your numbers, you're not again, like you're not sifting through personal bank accounts, then finding all these receipts and then manually typing them in and then adding things up and then analyzing it. Like now it's became this big mountain. If we can just make it a small little bump, it's like then we feel good about looking at them, right? So even on the conversion piece, it's like, do we gather information about the number of leads ⁓ how do we do some of that marketing piece in a way that maybe allows us to reflect on the marketing even easier, right? Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And one question that kind of popped up for me as well, that I didn't have written down, it just popped up right now. how that happens. ⁓ the difference like so sole proprietors, and then corporations. And I was just listening to something, again, it was also from the States. So I'm sure in the States, it works very differently as well. But basically, like, get into get incorporated as soon as possible. But you and I have had that conversation before where that's not always Staci Millard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Evie Tavares: the case. So can you just kind of elaborate on that for me as well? Staci Millard: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I would say like, it's not at all the case here in Canada. So to explain to you, like there's typically two reasons in Canada that you would want to incorporate. One is a tax benefit and one is a risk reduction. ⁓ Canada, one of the things about our tax system is that the government wants it to be equal. for as many people as possible. So for example, they don't want to encourage you to be an entrepreneur. They actually want you to have no extra benefits than if you were an employee. And if you have a corporation and you're paying yourself as an employee or you're paying yourself a dividend, they don't want any preferential tax treatment. So this question comes up of like, okay, well, if I'm an employee, I don't really get a clothing allowance. have to adhere a dress code at work. Well, if I'm a... ⁓ Sole proprietor or incorporated like do I get to write my clothing off? Well, not really because the government wants everything to be equal, right? So that that is like the basics of understanding Sole proprietor versus corporation is like they've done a lot of work to make sure it doesn't really you unless you're truly growing a business so Tax or risk so to talk about the tax corporations pay tax at 12 % in Ontario, 10 % Alberta, like each province is a little different, but it's like within a percent or two. obviously way lower than our 25 % personal tax rate, which is our lowest personal tax rate going all the way up to close to 50%, right? ⁓ So less. The only reason that that works is ⁓ if the earns the money and then the money stays in the corporation, to reinvest in growth of the business. So it's the only reason that works. So if you're living off of everything the business makes, that wipes out all the tax savings because you're either getting paid a wage or a dividend and you end up back in the exact same spot as though you were a sole proprietor. The difference is in that you've now paid a lawyer likely or paid somebody to incorporate. So somewhere like owner.com is probably like $700 a lawyer anywhere from. Evie Tavares: Hmm. Staci Millard: 1200 to $5,000 to incorporate Then you're paying an accountant so accounting fees for a corporation are usually around $2,000 plus like two thousand on the low end plus so now you're paying thousands of dollars for this corporation to be open and You have no taxes ⁓ reason to offset it, right? So you're wanting, you need to have like 20 to 30,000 at a very minimum left of profit in the business that you're not touching just to offset those extra costs every year. So if you're living off what the business makes, there's no tax reason to the corporation. From a liability perspective, I'm gonna give you the disclaimer that ⁓ need to double check this with the lawyer, but my on it is it's sort of like an insurance policy. So. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: How does having this corporation, this shell, legally reduce risk? So if you're a bigger business, like let's say a restaurant, the owner of the restaurant has very little knowing of exactly what's going on day to day, they're not serving the food, right? So if something happens, that owner doesn't wanna be, they don't wanna be sued, they don't wanna personally be liable for something that goes on, and so the corporation provides this shell, it sort of limits liability, says no, you can sue. the business but you're not suing this person as an individual. Well, what happens is when you are the business, so you're doing copywriting, you might have a contractor or two, but for the most part, you're very hands-on. One, what is the risk of you being sued? How much effort have you put into your onboarding with a client, your legal contract with a client? What kind of work are you doing that's opening yourself up to liability is my first question. Second is, do you have insurance because Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: of like ⁓ check with your insurance agent, but what it possible that you would get sued outside of an insurance policy? And then third, now, ⁓ it's okay, so you've taken all these steps, right? Like you've got the legal agreements, you've, you've got insurance. If you were would you be sued personally? This is what I ask you to ask the lawyer because ⁓ often like if the service provider, especially for professionals, You would be sued and the corporation would be sued like it provides no extra layer of ⁓ ⁓ now it's like again like there's zero benefit. We're spending everything this corporation makes It's not reducing our risk, ⁓ there's other industries like my gosh like childcare like anything food related anything health related it's like if ⁓ There a way like those are industries. I'm like, ooh, these are risky. I don't want all of my own assets on the line to this But as an accountant, it's like, if you sued me, you're suing me as an individual. So why would I spend the extra money to have all this set up in place? Like, how does it provide me a benefit? That's where it comes back to that tax question. It's like, am I living off of everything this business makes? Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Amazing. I've never had anybody like fully explain it to me like that before. Staci Millard: I get so worked up about it because there's so many creatives in my world that are solopreneurs and they're like, my last accountant suggested I do this. And I'm like, literally the difference is like double to triple the accounting fees. like, no tax difference. There's no liability difference. Like they just made some money off you. It feels so predatory to me that I just get so worked up about it. Yeah. Evie Tavares: Okay. Yeah. So switching gears a little bit. and I have talked before and you you've mentioned like how you think writing is an incredible skill for entrepreneurs to learn like for every entrepreneur to be able to like write their own stuff and have their voice and stuff or like be able to express that even without like outsourcing their voice to AI or whatever like that. ⁓ Staci Millard: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Evie Tavares: there any other skills that you think are non-negotiable for entrepreneurs to build? Staci Millard: Yeah, I think like there's two things that really stand out. So one of them is a willingness to be visible. Like if you want to be a best kept secret, ⁓ those words like Sunira Madani had used them to me and they just were ringing in my head over and over. if you ⁓ to like hide behind the scenes and you just want to deliver, like you're not cut out for entrepreneurship because ⁓ business has to have visibility. If nobody can see you, you can't serve anybody. You can't have an impact. You're not going to make an income. So there has to be a willingness to be visible. And then the second piece honestly is like the concept of, I don't even know that it's copywriting, but at least articulating what you can do and how that's going to help somebody. Right? So, you know, thinking back to like my first Kijiji ad, I was just like, I know how to help you. I know these accounts aren't doing things on time. They're not responding to your phone calls. They won't tell you why something is the way it is. And I'm happy to explain it to you. And then people love that, right? So it was really connecting with like the pain points of my potential customer and knowing how I could offer and help that. But that bridge, like being able to articulate that to somebody exactly ⁓ ⁓ my business did as well as it did. ⁓ Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: I never would have built to seven figures if I wasn't able to do that ⁓ it did start with like Knowing it a and then reflecting on it ⁓ just hearing what people would say and I'm like, ⁓ yeah That is what I do or like ⁓ that's what they appreciated ⁓ and on it But that is something that you ⁓ really to dial into Evie Tavares: Mm And is that something that you kind of like learned on your own, figure it out on your own? Or was there certain things that kind of helped you to realize that or to come to that? Staci Millard: Yeah, I think for me it like it really did start with just like this desire to help. It was really important to me. I'm like, I just I want to help you build your business. And so that's actually where it came from. Like I was speaking from the heart. I think like that's the part when you talk about like outsourcing AI, it's like, well, you can't do that. Like AI, AI is designed to just pull ⁓ average, the mediocre. And like, that's not what builds a great business. Right. ⁓ It did it did come naturally and then I also invested in it learning little bit I had read some books on it. I had some courses ⁓ and I see how How I positioned words would lead to certain Understanding for people so ⁓ I think a lot women especially that we deal with they're like I just like I don't want to be manipulative I don't want to be salesy and it's like Yeah, like I agree. I won't catch me doing that right? ⁓ it was more just about talking about how I can help like why I can do it like I'm thinking of like a retailer just like talking about the clothes that they have or like ⁓ in social media like we talked about high vibe women and Christina and like she is a great example of somebody who ⁓ knows to Articulate how they help people but you will never catch her like the number of stages that she's on she never pitches. She's not like Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: come work with social snippet for your podcast. I've never in all time heard her say that, but she will say, yeah, this is what we do, this is how it helps people, this is the effect it has on their business. And when you can look at that, how I wanna have an impact and how I wanna help people, sales kinda come naturally. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. And you learned a lot about psychology as well. You mentioned psychology and business. ⁓ Staci Millard: Yeah, like I just really enjoy understanding how the human brain works. That's for sure. Yeah. Evie Tavares: Yeah. Yeah. So how do you think, because there's like, obviously, like writing psychology, business psychology, buyer psychology, how do you think that kind of weaves in to still be authentic and genuine? Like you said, we're not making it salesy, we're not like doing it in a sleazy way. How do you still know all that, but then still do it in a genuine way? Staci Millard: I think it's when you are learning something and something feels right. You're like, yes, and you adopt it versus saying so and so is saying I have to do this. I'm going to try it. Does that make sense? It's like it's the intention behind your decision making. Like, are you saying that somebody else knows everything and they're right and you're going to do it their way or you have heard them make a suggestion. You're like, yes, this fits with my values. I'm going to try that on. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: That feels good to me. Evie Tavares: Mm hmm. Yeah, I think I think that's true. And I think it's like how it feels for both of you, like from a business owner perspective and from your your consumers perspective that it just feels like you I think you mentioned this at the start, like it all comes back to the feeling in the business. yeah, just how everybody feels through it. Staci Millard: Yeah. Well, and I think too, it's like so funny lately, I feel like I can tell you, like you could people watch and I could just listen to people and what they say and how they introduce themselves. And I could be like, they're short on money, they're short on money, they're in fear, they're in scarcity. Ooh, they're in abundance, they're in abundance, they're in abundance, they're doing well. ⁓ you can actually see how people talk about what they do based like how adamant that they are that you need to buy from them. Evie Tavares: Respect. Staci Millard: and how quickly they pitch you on buying. Does that make sense of like, they just wanna help, they're like, it just comes out in their words, it comes out in the tone and how it feels. like, yeah, I just wanna, ⁓ ⁓ my gosh, like, here's something so important. ⁓ there's like very little attachment to it. Whereas when somebody's coming from a financial place of fear, like you can feel that in everything that they're saying. And so it's so funny how like the psychology of like, Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: money goes into the words and also there's this like saying that like scared money doesn't make money and like when it comes with desperation it's almost like it's like you're attaching this invisible force field to what you're selling that repels and it's like you're saying like i desperately want this and it's got this like energy field around it that's like don't buy Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And I think like a lot of people feel that way. So how do you how do you recommend kind of getting out of that mindset? Staci Millard: Yeah, think it actually starts probably before you started your business. It's like, ⁓ steps did you take to set yourself up well, right? Like, I know that there's a lot of people out there who are like, burn the bridge, like, ⁓ quit job, like do all these things. But for most of us, like our nervous systems, understanding like our like physical body and how our brain reacts, depending on which nervous system state we're in, how we then look at and think differently. Evie Tavares: and Staci Millard: If we have left ourselves in a place of scarcity like desperation, like I have to make this work, like I quit my job. of us are not conditioned to be that like to perform well in that state, ⁓ So did start your business ahead of time? Did you create some leads? Like, do you have a network? Like, ⁓ what of safety have you created? ⁓ Do ⁓ you have a part time job that you worked your way into it? Like I did it. I've had a seven figure exit and I'll be very transparent. Like that's what I did to start. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: Right, so I think it's creating the safety from the beginning. And if you're noticing right now that I am not in a place of safety and I'm like, I don't, this isn't who I am. I don't want to be desperate for a sale. Like there are so many options. Like could you like, for example, like I know people who are in marketing who work a 0.5 job for somebody else or an agency and the other 0.5 they're building their own agency. Like. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: How can you look to create that safety for yourself? And it's not, it doesn't have to be forever, it's just ⁓ enough to help you build something. So how do you create capacity so that you're not working from like a place of fight or flight? Evie Tavares: Yeah, I like that. Because I think people have this idea of I'm going to take this big risk and like starting my business as a risk. But I love that you tie safety into that. Like that's I've not heard that. Staci Millard: Yeah, and like risks don't actually feel good most of the time. so, and the thing that I think is that we as a society are actually removing ⁓ most of discomforts, right? Like we live in these heated and air conditioned homes and all our food tastes so wonderful and like, you know, Amazon delivers same day and like we're creating all these levels of comfort. So. Our bodies actually aren't used to delayed gratification, discomfort. And so if you haven't built up that muscle, it's like, that's not about shame. It's not like, ⁓ I should have done that. It's not that. It's like, I didn't do that. So my best chance at success is gonna be if I do it this way. Yeah. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Yeah, love that. I want to just touch quickly. I'm just looking here. I feel like I didn't follow my questions at all, which is like, no, I love it when it ends up that way. Like when you have questions prepared, but then it ends up just being like a genuine conversation. So I love that. Okay, let me just ask one more because you and I met at High Vibe Women. And so I want to touch on that really quickly. Staci Millard: I'm sorry. ⁓ I tend to do that. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Evie Tavares: A lot of ⁓ entrepreneurs kind of treat networking like a checkbox. Like it's something on my to-do list to grow my business. What does ⁓ building a genuine community look like for you in practice and why do you think it matters so much for business growth? Staci Millard: Yeah, if it's a checkbox to you, you're gonna get about that much back. It's gonna be a quick check mark. Okay, met her. I don't know about you, but like that doesn't feel good to me when people use me that way. And so for me, genuine community is actually not about meeting and being liked by everybody in the room. I know that I'm gonna have to get to know people. Like ⁓ there a lot of people who do business differently than me. Some maybe are ⁓ like extroverted and... I'm maybe not right and so I think that you have to understand yourself first and know like a little bit about yourself so that you're not just going into a room like Desperate to like put the mask on and adapt to everybody's way of doing things But instead like know who you are and what you really love to do and then just go with genuine curiosity So at the last high vibe women Christina said don't forget to network for your network. It might have been at the VIP network night But was like when you come at things from just like a genuine place of like interest and wanting to help and then not making it about you. It's not about that next sale, but even like, okay, like who, who do I get to meet? What fun things do they get to do? Like never know, ⁓ know, I meet you and like first like you used to do photography and ⁓ like these different things. I'm like, who do I know that needs that in your area? Right. And it may not be today, but it might be the next week. And when you just come at it with a place of interest, ⁓ for introverts, that eliminates you needing to be interesting, having the right thing to say, it takes the pressure off, because I'm just actually curious and I just wanna get to know you. ⁓ But that's also, ⁓ level of curiosity gets reciprocated. It's like, well, what do you do? And if that person doesn't reciprocate, maybe they're not your people, so you've weeded them out, right? ⁓ that is kind of how I approach networking. It's like, I'm gonna meet people. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: They're not all gonna be for me, but I am genuinely interested in what they do. ⁓ if you can approach things like that, ⁓ also I kind of look at it like you have to be aware that it's not just a volume game. Like ⁓ are made by repeat interactions. ⁓ Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: We like ⁓ thrive, like we invest a lot in High Vibe Women. We know a lot of the community, like I love the women in it. We do a business with a lot of them. And like over and over and over again. That's why we're so well respected. If you're gonna go to like 75 different networking events, not gonna even know it, like remember, ⁓ were you Suzy from this event or that event? Like that's gonna have any substance to it. So those relationships that you crave when somebody refers you or you refer somebody and like the feeling of like, ⁓ yeah, I made that great relationship introduction. that never comes because you've never broken through that threshold. like also like choose a community and invest in it a bit. And that's when you get the investment back. So it's about not making it about you, looking at ⁓ else can I help? Not just about myself. How do I go a little deeper? and it doesn't have to be everything. Like pick a room that feels really good to you. If you go to a room and you're like, you know, this event didn't feel good, this isn't what I'm about, then don't go back. Try another one. Evie Tavares: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the key too is like, you feel like I have to go to all these events, but then like, sometimes you are in a room where you're like, this isn't it. And it's like, it's not that that's wasted money because you're still getting the insight of that's not the room for me. Like those aren't my people. That's okay. But then yeah, going in on the room set. Staci Millard: Well, and I think like there's two things. like one, you learned something about yourself. So you actually know how to make decisions differently, like going into the future, right? Of like, for example, I don't like going to 500 person events by myself. Like if I'm gonna go to a massive event, I better know some people going because I'm not like if I'm solo, it's gonna be worthless. But the other thing that I think behind it is when you're investing in places to be, Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Staci Millard: You should never be investing in a way that it's like, is my last dime, I'm going to meet my next client here, right? We're taking risks in calculated ways that like we can afford to come back from that. So if I decided to go to that event, I'm not spending every last penny on it. I'm like, I can go to that event and it can be okay that it's not my room because I can afford to go to the next one. So I think it's like you learn about yourself, but also financially you're making decisions in a way that's like, you can always bounce back. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Love that. Okay. Amazing. Well, I loved this conversation. before we get into rapid fire, can you let everyone know where they can find you best way to connect with you? And you also have an incredible podcast that people should go listen to. So tell us about that too. Staci Millard: Yeah, I'm stacey.millard, M-I-L-L-A-R-D on Instagram and you'll find like the links to everything that I do there. You'll find the links to Thrive and then Small Business School Podcasts is where I share all the insights that I've learned over the years about small business and scaling small businesses. We have some great guests. ⁓ You're the show. It's like, it's great. Evie Tavares: Awesome. Thank you. Okay. So let's get into some rapid fire before we close up. Okay. First question, coffee or tea? Coffee. Okay. I liked that answer. I'm just kidding. Yeah. What's the best business book that you've ever read? Staci Millard: coffee. don't blame you. ⁓ every second week I'm trying to get off coffee. ⁓ yeah, it never happens. 10X is easier than 2X. Evie Tavares: Okay, interesting. Yeah, I did. I was gonna say I did read with the I can't say vivid vision. I did read that one too, because I think you recommended it and I forget where. Gap in the game. Okay. Perfect. What's one app or tool that you couldn't run your business without? Staci Millard: Yeah. Yeah, I do recommend it. Gap and the Gain also. such a good book. Like, life book. chat. Claude now. I don't know. We'll switch. ⁓ working, working on it. Yeah. Evie Tavares: You switched to quad yet? Or you're thinking about it? Yeah. The biggest money myth that you want to bust. Staci Millard: I hate when people talk about revenue. I'm like, I don't care. ⁓ know, we work with businesses, I've seen the behind the scenes of businesses that are well into seven, multi seven figures, and they don't have enough money to pay ⁓ business owner. So like, I don't care. It's all about profit. If you don't have profit, you haven't come up with the method of delivering the product or service to the customer in a way that's anything more than a charity. So it's, yeah. Like, stop talking about your revenue numbers. Evie Tavares: Hmm. Yeah. What is the best piece of advice you've ever received and actually used? Staci Millard: making your business about yourself. The freedom truly comes from scaling a team and scaling a business that can operate without you. ⁓ you choosing to be in it, but not ⁓ needing you because your impact will be so much less if you do that. So create a business that can ⁓ without you. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. What do you wish more entrepreneurs would start doing when they're starting out? Staci Millard: Looking at how they create profit. Usually they're chasing revenue. They have some kind of concept in their head. They're like, ⁓ I'm gonna have some money left in the bank, but they don't actually know the machine. how, like if you go back to vivid vision, they don't understand the financial machine that's gonna exist when they brought that vivid vision back to life. Mm-hmm. Evie Tavares: Okay, perfect. last one. ⁓ you have a dream collaboration or partnership for 2026? Staci Millard: my gosh. no, I haven't because I have some incredible people in my network. There's some really cool Canadian women who've done amazing things like Joanna Nix from Nix ⁓ or Joanna from Tara Bosch from Smart Suites. ⁓ Like there are really cool people, but ⁓ I think sometimes actually who you come up with too. And it's like they're already in my network. Yeah. Evie Tavares: Mm-hmm. Thank Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love I keep hearing that lately of like it's the people you come up with Staci Millard: Yeah, yeah. I think that's a concept that I would say like I found really hard because people said that and I'm like, ⁓ haven't done what I wanted to do yet. So I think it's ⁓ to have mentors who are like further ahead than you, ⁓ the people who are gonna be willing to collaborate with you most often are people who are growing with you, ⁓ the person who's a hundred steps ahead and you have nothing to offer them, right? So I think there's like a little bit of both there. ⁓ Evie Tavares: And I feel like. Right. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for all of your wisdom and all of your insights. I'm so excited for people to listen in and to learn everything. So thank you so much for coming on, Stacey. Staci Millard: Thank you.