Latest / Skin Anarchy / Leslie Harris, Global General Manager of SkinCeuticals

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Leslie Harris, Global General Manager of SkinCeuticals · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Learn more at Modage.com Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Today is a very special episode.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: I have such a phenomenal guest with me.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm such a fan of her and the line, of course.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Leslie Harris, who is the global president for Skin Suiticals.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, Leslie.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy to join you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's and be part of your special community.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm so honored to host you.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: I love the brand and I love you know your vision.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I know we've talked before this recording too.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I just, you know, so everyone buckle in.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is going to be a really good one.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Fun ride.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, fun ride.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to I want to start off, Lizzie, because I want to talk about your career because I know you have so much experience and you've just done such great work um in your career.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd love for you to start us off with your own journey in this industry and like how you kind of ended up as schinceuticals and just all the good stuff.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if absolutely, and if you had told me at 21 when I graduated with a degree in economics, because I didn't know what to major in, that I would end up where I am, I would have laughed at you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and but I'm I'm proof that you can, if you love beauty and you love the industry, it's there, it's there for you.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes people of all backgrounds, cultures, viewpoints to move the beauty industry forward.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been very fortunate to work for a company that embraces people who you know have different backgrounds.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I don't have a traditional background, and uh L'Oreal took a chance on me, and and hopefully I've made them proud.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm sure you have.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, honestly, like I I think, you know, the thing is though, that's the kind of that's the kind of story I love is like you just people who are just brilliant and you guys end up in like positions and you're just like, I don't know how I got here, but I got here.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I want to know, I want to know the details though, like the early years, like what were you doing and um before L'Oreal, like all the tell us all the details.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, absolutely.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I've been at L'Oreal 17 years more than I've ever been anywhere else.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and if you ever again, if you ever told me that I'd be in corporate America, I would have, I would have laughed because when I first graduated college, I worked in venture capital and I remember selling my suits when I was probably 25.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: I went to get a master's in fashion history in London, and I and I don't even think I sold, I got rid of all my suits, and I was like, I'm never gonna wear one of these again.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm liberated.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I found, yeah, so I I got a master's in fashion history.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was always a science geek, proudly, in high school, and I loved science.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you're a student, you generally don't have a lot of money.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so working as a graduate student, I worked in a massage therapy uh services, like a company, right?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I worked with a lot of aromatherapists, and I always liked chemistry and I didn't have a lot of money.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I started making my own products.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and it was a lot of fun.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I graduated and I ended up working for a cosmetics packaging development company, which was really interesting again because it combines science and engineering and branding and consumer insights.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I had an epiphany moment of this is really fun, but I want to be on the brand side.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be the one telling me what to do.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, as I I think I told you, a woman that you interviewed very recently, Marie-Pierre Stark-Flora, was my first boss at L'Oreal.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she was at Kiel's at the time.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom was uh my mom is a photographer and she was teaching a photography class that Marie-Pierre Stark-Flora was in.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom came to me and she said, I have this person.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: You have to meet her.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to understand what she does.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she she runs Keels.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her, Okay, I'm pretty sure she doesn't run Keels, but yeah, of course.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't, I didn't really know what I needed to do to pivot to move into a career in beauty.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I met with Marie Pierre, and who was lovely, as you already know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, she's amazing.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: She said, send me your resume.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And before I knew it, uh, I was moving from London because I was living there and met my now husband there.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we moved to New York, and I took a job as the assistant manager at Keel's.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of the rest is history.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I learned everything on the job.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I went back and got a master's of professional studies in cosmetics and fragrance marketing and management at FIT, where I now teach beauty history.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, something from full circle.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you're a professor as well.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I am, I am.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so cool.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I really learned by asking a lot of questions, by being very close friends with the labs and operations, and always seeking to understand their point of view and how they thought to put myself in their shoes.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I ended up um, so I was at Keels for about four and a half years.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then I moved to Garnier in the US, where I worked on US innovations, which is very interesting for your listeners in having to adapt products that are developed in one country, how to make sure that they're successful in other countries.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's how you tell the story, and sometimes not to interrupt you, but that's one of my biggest things is like I'm so curious about because you know, when brands go global, I always wonder.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I wonder what the homework behind all this is.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because to translate-there's a lot of homework, you know what I mean?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's like, how do you translate a brand from one culture into the next?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's not even about just like, oh, we sell in you know Europe and Asia and it's like understanding the cultures of those places, you know what I mean?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I'm gonna talk about that later.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you like cultural studies and you like consumer insights, being part of a globalizing brand is really interesting.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And being part of beauty is interesting because our backgrounds and our own histories influence how we interpret beauty.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that keeps it beauty, something's always changing.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you like to be intellectually stimulated and you just you you like creating, beauty is a perfect place to do it because it's so interdisciplinary.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I worked on Garnier and I had known about skin pseudocles for a long time, and it was a super scientific brand, which I loved because I was a you know, as a science geek in high school and never studied it in college because quite frankly, I didn't have enough confidence in my abilities.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that this is in the 90s, right?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: The world has changed a little bit.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: But no, honestly, I'm I'm keeping it real for everyone listening.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can go into science in undergrad, but honestly, it doesn't really get you anywhere.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like a bachelor's, like a bachelor's in biology, like you don't even get a job after that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's so I would have been a disaster in the lab, so it would have been a disaster.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Chemical equations, fine, but lab and so it was a good thing, you know.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I I loved SkinSeuticals' approach to formulation and the brand as being so scientifically driven.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I had the good fortune of heading up uh marketing and global innovation for the brand.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then in 2015, I became the global general manager, global president of the brand, where I'm responsible for the global vision, the top line distribution, the creative vision, the innovation.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm responsible for it, but I have an amazing team and amazing lab and operational partners that are really, to your point, the key to making any kind of success in beauty happen.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there there might be lone geniuses, but I I think that's myth too.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: And it really comes from people who who work together and bring their best skills and bring their whole selves to the I mean the brand reflects that so perfectly too, because you know, um, obviously, like, you know, I am also a science geek and I really really appreciate I would I would never have known.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I kind of made a career out of that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it's it's like one of those things where I if I see a line, like, you know, for me, skin pseuticals has always held this like special place in the skincare industry because not only like from my own experiences, which I will share in a minute, but like also because the dermatologists that I've interviewed that are like, you know, celebrity derms, like they're really like, you know, they they don't BS people, they are obsessed, you know, especially with like the vitamin C Furlic uh serum.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've heard so many amazing things from like colleagues and medical professionals, and it just makes you like stop and think like this is you know, this is like what skincare should be like, something that you know medical professionals can get behind, you know what I mean, and say that this really works.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And not mean it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: We always say the you you need great science, you need great formulas, but if you really want to create miracles, you need passion, patience, persistence, and professionals at the end of the day.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and everybody can treat their skin and age as they see fit.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And our point of view is you do you.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to make sure you have great formulas, access to professionals, and good education to make the decisions that you you want to.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a and and taking care of your skin and aging is a very personal journey, and we just want to be a part of that, you know.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um claim you don't claim like anti-aging either, which is what I really like.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like I like the the website isn't immediate, like anti-aging, like everything, you know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I like we're very indication focused, so it's very, it's a very logical brand, despite the fact that some of the most passionate people I've ever met work on the brand.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's uh logical, passionate people.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we're very problem solution and we approach our innovations not based on trends, though we're always happy when we happen to sit in the middle of one, but from really where are their problems and where are the insights from physicians where there are problems and how can we solve them in a scientific way?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we really lead from that versus everybody is concerned about under eye circles.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what are we gonna do for under eye circles?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, under eye circles or you know, X is a trend.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: How are we gonna jump on the trend?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because science takes time and we don't launch a lot of products, and we don't launch a lot of products because we're hard on ourselves and we we want to make the best products we can.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And if something doesn't work, we go back to the drawing board or we refine it and yeah, make it perfect, or as or as perfect as it as as it can be, you know?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, you know, people say the whole thing, like, you know, skin will never be perfect, and I completely agree with that, and I'm all about that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in terms of like formulating products and the science and like really making sure that you're trained staying true to like the actual medical literature and staying true to like you know, medical insights from professionals, like you mentioned, like those are things you can perfect as a brand.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where I'm like, you know, I really respect what you and your team do because you know, there's not a lot of brands.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'll interview people and they'll be like, Yeah, well, we ran some studies.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Well, what do you mean?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can run studies all day.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what kind of studies?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: What was the methodology?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: What was the how many people?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I want to, that's what I really want to dive into is ask you about that because I know you guys probably have this amazing and very intricate process be of the science, like what you go through in order to like test your product.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, can you give us like some insight into that, the whole process of that?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when we develop, like I said, we start from what is a problem we're trying to solve, and are there tensions in how to solve them?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a good example, if you think about antioxidants, uh, in our most recent launch of silomer and CF, was we know that oily skin, because of sebum, is prone to more oxidation.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And oxidation creates inflammation, which can create a great environment for acne bacteria to form.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it also causes free radical damage.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can we solve that knowing that people with oily skin don't necessarily want to use uh CE ferrulic because of the vitamin E, right?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's an oil-soluble molecule.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really dove into and with professionals, and I say professionals, scientists, physicians, aestheticians, people who bring different insights to the table.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how do you reduce oil oxidation and what does that mean for the skin?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so with silomarin, it took, gosh, it was probably over six years uh to launch it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you when you start from an insight, you know the science you're going after.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then you try to develop formulas based on literature that you think will solve that problem.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And as you probably know, Ecta, there could be great ingredients, but for whatever reason, they're not soluble or not, they're not soluble in a formula that could be wearable or or layerable on skin.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there could be ingredients, and that's why you know I'm always in vitro data on ingredients, is it's a great starting point.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all about what does it do in the formula?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: What's the right concentration?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: How does the skin like or not like those kinds of ingredients?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So then we so you start from the science, then you work on the formulations.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if something's too easy at Skin Suiticals, we never want to do it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: So in the true spirit of scientists, if we don't solve it, we don't want to.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And good science, like I said, good our our head of scientific communications, her name is Hina.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, good science takes time.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a quote or a mantra that we keep very seriously at skin suiticals.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And same with anything worth doing is worth doing well.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some products that we think that we don't make because you know what?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody can do it better.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and that's okay.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a big statement though.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that you said that because it's like, you know, um, there's so many brands, and I, you know, I'm I'm I never name names, but it's like I just sometimes I look and I'm like, why are you doing why is there, you know, like 15 different products?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you guys even know about this area of skin health?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't think you, you know, nobody even buys those products off their websites.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like it just it doesn't make sense.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that you said that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I think that that again is a very scientific mind, you know, to recognize that because, you know, with science, like you said, it takes time.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: It has to be done right.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: It has to be, you know, you have to go through the literal scientific method to make sure that what you're doing is like adding on to it, you know, to the steps in a meaningful way.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I completely, you know, I completely respect that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And also like one thing that's very interesting that you brought up was about how the skin actually reacts to the ingredients, because I know that in all of medicine, this is a serious, like it's it's a topic that needs to be understood by people.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Is like, for example, like I know with like like internal med, you could say, like, you know, people giving vitamin D supplements, right, to their patients, but then the patients don't know that you should be taking that with milk or something fat, like something, you know what I mean?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I take my I take my vitamin D and oil droplets.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it's you know, that's the kind of like knowledge that I think consumers in this industry just don't that it's not available to them, you know.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really, really glad that you brought that up about and we don't always think to look for it.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if you were shopping for a refrigerator, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say you really need from a refrigerator?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to work, it needs to keep things cold, maybe I want ice.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't know all of the background of exactly what you want in a refrigerator.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Some people might, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's our job at skin seuticals at L'Oreal in the industry to do this kind of homework so that consumers and and professionals don't have to worry about so much of that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we've done our homework in case the question comes up.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's you know what?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's actually more meaningful than anything because I know, like in medical school, they teach you, and I've said this before in my podcast, I've said literally you get taught from day one, learn how to say you don't know.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you don't know, then you don't know, and you can't tell people that you do, you know, and then something happens, and then down the line you have no idea why, you know.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I think that's a trait that everyone like, not just in medicine, but like you have to adapt that, you know, um kind of mindset and anything that's like a professional area.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I I love that you're like, you know, very like transparent about that.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know a lot of people aren't able to say that, you know, if you approach some brand and they're like, hey, I have hyperpigmentation uh pigmentation issues, what can you help me with?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: They don't really have an answer, you know, they'll just pitch you marketing words like, oh, well, you know, whatever.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it it really frustrates me.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why professionals are so important, yes, because they they do know and they do have expertise and to for some people where it's not so readily accessible, you know, not everybody can go to a dermatologist or an aesthetician.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why online resources are also really important because everybody deserves access to information.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's also where good skin care comes into.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, honestly, you know, I've seen so many germs, like I said, like support skin pseuticals, you know, on their own personal pages and like TikTok and stuff.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like they'll they'll really talk about it in a very like positive way because I think they're trying to tell people, like, listen, like you can still buy good skincare, you know, it does exist.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that you have to do your homework and you should look at it.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to I wanna dive in actually because I know the um the vitamin C and frulic um acid, like that's a really big heavy curve for the brand.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to know, yeah, like I want to know like where did it where did the concept come from?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how did you guys go?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what was the whole process of formulating it?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So CE frulic is our foundation, our our flagship, you know, our gold, our our liquid gold antioxidant.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's our most popular antioxidant, and it was among the first to be developed by Sheldon Pennell.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the brand was built upon Sheldon Pinnell's science and his work in antioxidants.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: He was a professor uh at Duke University, he was a college chemist, collagen chemist, excuse me, and a dermatologist, and he was studying antioxidants and the benefits of the skin and its ability to protect the skin from not only potential disease, but aging.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what he found was certain uh if vitamin C is formulated in the correct way, meaning pure vitamin C because our skin recognizes it, at a pH below uh 3.5 because vitamin C has a charge, so you want to take the charge off the molecule, and then at a concentration between 10 and 20 percent, so more isn't always better, uh your skin is best able to accept the vitamin C.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the great thing about vitamin C in this in this form is that our bodies were built for self-repair, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our skin was as well.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if we take vitamin C, we take vitamin C, uh, which we actually uh humans and guinea pigs, I think, are the only ones that don't produce vitamin C.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why, I don't know why the two of us.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that was some of his science, that was some of his science as well.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you if you take vitamin C orally, your body's smart.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna send it to the place where it thinks it needs it the most, which means the skin is probably not first in line.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can deliver vitamin C topically, it means your skin has a chance to breathe and do what it is.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Does best because you have antioxidants which are neutralizing free radicals that could potentially damage skin.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing he did, in addition to what we call the dupe parameters, is it's not just about the vitamin C, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just pure vitamin C, but it's the synergy.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's what plays well in the sandbox together and what boosts antioxidant protection versus cancels each other out or destabilizes the formula.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So he did a lot of work in what are the right ingredients.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And vitamin E is good with lipid peroxidation.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And vitamin E, vitamin C also sort of rejuvenates for lack of a better term, vitamin E, so they go well together.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Ferrulic acid works well in lipophilic and hydrophilic uh environments, and it's it's a very strong antioxidant.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: So all of those together is what makes the formula different.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then I would say on top of that, how did you combine a water-soluble and a lipid soluble vitamin together, though?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's really interesting.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: How you guys did that?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like vitamin C.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part exactly, and that's part of the recipe, which is I was going to get to the next thing, is it's not only the synergy, but what is the formula?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you get these formulas to live together?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there are certain, as you probably know, uh gentle surfactants that can bind or help the two live together.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then your formulation, you know, we push the it's not only the ingredients, it's not only the synergy, it's not only the formulation.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do you produce it?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because do you like to bake by any chance?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love baking.
• 23:41
  unknown: Okay.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: You would never want to eat anything I ever made.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, no.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: My husband did not marry me for any sense of baking or cooking abilities.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: But let's say we both had the same ingredients and we get both get the same recipe.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: We both follow those ingredients.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I guarantee you that we will not deliver the same cake.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: So even the way, even the sources of your raw materials, how you manufacture them, how you fill them, uh are all part of the efficacy and the differentiation of a formula.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last piece I'll I'll add on to is the obsession with proof.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's not just production, formula, science, you know, all up the street upstream, but how are you testing that the products work the way you want them to?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times you learn things about products you didn't know because you've done the testing.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you do it in different clinical models and different skin tones, types, backgrounds?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because as we learn more about science and more about the skin and skin reaction of skin of different backgrounds, yeah, they react differently.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: They show signs of aging differently, they show inflammation differently.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you now design your tests that try to get try to answer those questions, knowing that any one test is never going to answer everything?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why for us in looking at efficacy, we look at clinical testing, we look with a number of different um for Silomarin, for example, we tested in the US, we tested in China, and we tested Brazil.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in different in different Fitzpatricks to understand how does the product work with with skin of different backgrounds.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that again, you have a full picture.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then you also look at instrumental testing because that's very objective.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's like, are you hydrated or not?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you reduce oil or not?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, on the surface of the skin.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's this combination that we try to, that we always strive towards.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And CE ferrulic, we continue actually on all of our antioxidants, CE ferrulic, fluoritan CF, and silomerin CF, we're always doing new studies and science on those existing formulas to understand what else do they do, what how else can they be helpful?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if you have a problem solution approach to skincare, there are only so many problems in the world, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so how do you try to understand the value your formula can bring in a different way, in a new way?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the best inspirations and insights we've ever had come from physicians who say, you know, I've been using your product for this, or I noticed your product did this.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever think about testing it?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh true.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and even with uh pollution, we started looking at ozone first to say particulate matter, which was like super in trend because we're like ozone is this, you can't see it, you can't smell it, you it's but it creates oxidation on the skin.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we did studies on um ozone and and so to continue to understand how our how our products work.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like the long and the short of it, but it's really about physician involvement, seeking inspiration and having the science tell you what a formula does, yeah, and designing your your testing methodologies to answer questions of how does something work?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, why does something work?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And does it work, which is the most important.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were still traveling, and I hope we get to travel again, and I go to different markets.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: My question that I would ask first of physicians, aestheticians, beauty advisors, consumers we met is why do you like skin suitables?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer I would always get is it works, it works.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh and that's like it warms the cockles of my heart.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: To hear that, and to hear that people can trust a product when particularly now, we don't know what to trust and whom to trust.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, you're telling me.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: I I mean, honestly, it's that's to you, that's like the gold stamp or the stamp of approval, I think, when a customer or consumer can say it just works.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I've had this discussion, honestly, Leslie, with so many, like, I know that derms are kind of like they're on the fence or they're like one side or the other with skincare.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like when it comes to the ones that are like very like not into skincare, I've had this conversation with them.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you know, well, why are you uh, you know, well, what about products that are just working and we don't really know all of the molecular reasons why yet?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't negate them just because like you don't understand how it's completely doing what it's doing.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like at the end of the day, the that consumer saying, I use this because it works, that should be, I think for anyone who's in the medical profession, like I genuinely mean this, it should be like an indicator saying, you know what, this is worth looking into.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: And whether you're a PhD student or somebody who's on the research side or the clinical side, it's worth looking at, you know, instead of just dismissing skincare, because not all skincare is made the same, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we just talked about that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: And it is really for me, like skincare is so intriguing because of this ability and this the space for innovation and the space for like question marks and like how can we further evolve this, you know, this technique or this, you know, new discovery.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I absolutely love, I love everything you've said, and I love, you know, like I'm just obsessed.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm obsessed.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like honestly, because when science is done right, it shows.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that's exactly what you're hearing from our consumers.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: It works.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: We try we try really hard, and it's it Dr.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Pinnell built the brand upon academic science, and we try to keep that same philosophy and help the and and let the data help us understand the potential or what a product or what an ingredient is doing.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And try to test accordingly.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And even test methodologies have changed since he did testing uh back in the late 90s or early 90s, even.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's the great thing about science, is it continues to evolve and beauty's in the question marks, right?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's hiding in plain sight, exactly, which is really fun.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and also like there's so many cures to like, you know, this is why like I just, you know, as a I think as a scientist, for me, it's always just like just the discovery aspect is so interesting.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, skin pseudocals, you know, as just a consumer looking at the brand, that was always something that was very intriguing.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost like a kid getting a chemistry set for the first time, you know what I mean?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Or like like it's just like you're just like, ooh, look at this, and like what does it do?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and you know, because I get to like go on the website and read because you guys have such beautiful summaries on your website that are so like educational and they're so informative for people to really understand, you know, like how the political.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: I bet you say that to all the girls actually.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't, I don't, I really don't.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: And if I do, then someone slap me on the wrist because honestly, like I mean it because I'm I'm looking at your website, you know, and I'm like, they have all this information there.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, with the world we live in now where information is truly the queen of everything and knowledge, you know, is is really what rules, you have to go onto websites of brands and read what they're doing, you know, because I think a lot of times people will go into like like a Sephora or an Ulta, not saying that's bad, but and you know, they'll buy something based on how it looks, but you really do with skincare have to educate yourself.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I really appreciate that about you guys that you put that science out there for your consumers.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll let our I'll let our team know that they're gonna be very flattered and excited.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that I'm glad.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Please pass it along.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: I want to actually ask you though about another product that you have that I'm very, very interested in because um the actually the name really interests me.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's the hyaluronic hyaluronic acid intensifier.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, what does that mean?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can you go into like a little bit of the science of that?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like sure.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: That that that insight or the product came from the insight that hyaluronic acid is, I mean, used in aesthetic medicine, beauty, it's everywhere, right?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you can inject it, you can microneedle it into skin, you can do all these kinds of things.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: But hyaluronic acid is and hyaluronic acid is very important to the overall health of skin and keeping our skin plump and uh helping its overall health.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but hyaluronic acid as a molecule is enormous.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so to allow for hyaluronic acid to be absorbed into the skin, it's pretty much like getting an elephant in a car.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just it's just not gonna happen.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And even when I've seen like, you know, microfragmented hyaluronic acid, it's still enormous.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so we said, okay, we know hyaluronic acid is important.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you how do you get it into, you know, getting into the surface layers of the skin, really important, but it, but it, you know, in the epidermis, it might not get to the epidermis, kinds of things like that.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: But are there ways to support skin's own ability to just make its own hyaluronic acid?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't even have to, we don't have to deliver it.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going to deliver it, but we can deliver certain things to skin's surface so that skin has the ability, you know, to the point of antioxidants, of you know, doing what it does best.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like A.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we worked with a team of physicians and scientists on the formulation and tried to understand how do you support hyaluronic acid levels in the skin and you know, support the production of them and help prevent them from breaking down.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because hyaluronic acid is a process, it's in our skin just like we build and break down collagen, we create anti-oxid, we create oxidation in our system to have energy, we break it down.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's all we're all about homeostasis, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Work-life balance.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, our bodies are are like built for work-life balance, and then we get in the way or the environment gets in the way.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so the formula was designed to help the skin make its own hyaluronic acid.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And while you know, we we don't know the full reasons why it works.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: We know that the formula when people use it, they have more hyaluronic acid in their skin, which is great.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's I didn't when we were developing that formula, I kept thinking, I don't, I'm not sure I believe in this, I'm not sure I believe in this.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's hold up.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they kept holding up.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of the fun thing.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and there are some some projects we're working on now where I think to myself, or I say, I don't know, I don't know.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then the data, the data shows you up, and then sometimes you really think something's gonna work, and the data's like, oh, hmm.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't what I was expecting.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: But so hyaluronic, so HA intensifier helps intensify the own natural hyaluronic acid present in the skin.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: So would you like suggest then we should use something like that up above like a hyaluronic acid serum?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you think consumers should do?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe use both together, or like how how does that work in terms of like synchronicity with like other products?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so HA intensifier also includes uh different kinds of hyaluronic acid in there, different sizes.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, because it's also hyaluronic acid is also it's a great moisturizer, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you shouldn't hate on hyaluronic acid because it's a big molecule.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just it's just not if if you really want to change some things in the skin, seeing a you know, you need to be able to see a professional who can work deeper in the skin or looking at ingestibles, other other ways to help your body build its own hyaluronic acid and it's it's it do its own thing.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I I also think skincare comes down to uh it also has to be enjoyable to use because it's it's self-care more than ever.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to use uh HA intensifier and you still have a hyaluronic acid product that you love, put the put the HA intensifier on first because it's a little thinner.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh hyaluronic acid serums tend to be a little bit more viscous, right?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: A little, yeah, it's got a little bit more body.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then you put that on on top of it.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then if it's in in in the morning, you put an AOX on first before you do anything, and you never leave the house without sunscreen.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sunscreen.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: End of screen.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, end of screen.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's one thing, period, after that.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's, you know, yeah, and I completely agree.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad that you like really explained that because I was wondering, I'm like, you know, because obviously I know it's working like, you know, in the skin itself to intensify, like you said, the production of hyaluronic acid.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's really that's good to know because I know a lot of consumers um often have questions about well, what layer or like what step should I do first?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like I try to clarify that as much as I can.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone listening, I hope you understood that part because the rule the rule of thumb that we give is thinnest to thickest.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's the morning sunscreen last.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it makes sense.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I I, you know, and I just wanna I just want to actually ask, like, just on a personal note, like you know, for you, like what are some of your favorite projects that you've like kind of spearheaded uh for the brand that for you are just like you know, close to your heart?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: Who are who are my babies?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have I've been on the brand 10 years, so I have a lot of babies.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um multi-paras, guys.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like just I would say HA intensifier was definitely one, and that was quite a scientific ride.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Triple lipid restore is one of my favorite formulas, which came from an insight from a physician in Korea who, when we were looking at lipids and for skin's barrier and overall health, she said everybody focuses on ceramides, but when you age, you're actually deficient in cholesterol and not ceramides.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have atopic or dry skin, you're deficient in ceramides.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So not all blends are right for this for the same indication, right?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or different indications.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, not all blends are right for different indications.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: So triple lipid restore 242 is developed based on the ratio in literature that's the right the right combination of lipids and fats for the skin to help aging skin, like most of us, uh reinforce our skin's barrier.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what's also really nice about that formula is I I like to think of it as like all of the fat and none of the grease.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't feel heavy or overly balmy on skin, and it's also layerable.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you, to get those levels of ingredients in the skin, uh, there's a woman on in our labs named Patty, and I just can remember sometimes we celebrate how many formulas it took us to get the right one.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the labs share a similar passion for solving problems of formulation.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just that's that's a baby that I love.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then silomarin, you know, I worked on that when I first joined.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it might have even been more than six years, but in in creating an antioxidant that really works best for for oily skin or skin that's prone to blemishes.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are those are some of my babies.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what I think I like about those babies is is the journey that they they've all taken to to get to where they are.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there were a lot of ups and downs and challenges and surprises that make the journey interesting.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and they're all ones that you needed everybody, you know, cross-functionally to make it happen.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, I love that.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: I really love that.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you, you know, you're able to like it must be so cool, right?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like seeing the products that, you know, you like really began the project and just seeing the success of it.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: That must be such a cool feeling.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a great feeling.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and when you but when you create products, sometimes it takes a long time to see your product, right?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because it might take 18 months to two years to develop a product, you if you're lucky.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or if you're starting from scratch, you know, all of the stability testing, the compatibility, the clinicals, and no, no, no.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um that uh if you jump of if not if jump, but if you rotate brands or you move to different positions too early, you don't get to see your uh your products come to life.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's that is something that Skinceuticals has has always kept me here, not only because it's a business that's always evolving and so it presents interesting business uh opportunities and challenges, but you get to see the formulas, you know, um then come to life and how they come to life, because they may start one way and they end up, you know, a totally different way.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just like you know, you have a child and you think they're gonna be one thing, and nope, they're totally something else, but they're just as great as what you thought.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or so you try to convince yourself, or so you try to convince yourself, but they're their I love my thing.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: They become their own person.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's so cool.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that's you know, that that's what I wanted to ask you because you know, for me, I know like just from any perspective, I guess, you know, for me it's always science, but like just watching research come to life is just one of the most beautiful things.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it's you know, I remember back in my early days watching like the RTP CR machine and like seeing if my genes were amplified and like, you know, the way I found it.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: You were the real deal.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like it just makes you really like excited, you know, when something works or if something doesn't work and trying to figure out.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I I love that, and I love that you've been with the brand and you're you know, obviously doing a phenomenal job because it's just a it's it's in its own category, like genuinely.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, when when you have a brand that's being supported by so many people from so many different backgrounds, like it really people need to stop and think like there must be something very extraordinary here.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I can't say enough good things about scheme pseudocals and also you because you're amazing.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: I could talk to you for days.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but no, this has been wonderful, Leslie.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you so much for giving us so much um knowledge and insight.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: I hope everyone listening, you've uh learned a lot because you know, this is really the goal here for me on Screen Care Anarchies to invite, you know, more guests like Leslie who can really talk to us about the science and talk to us about like why skincare can make a difference.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: So um I just want to thank you so much for your time.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and thank to you, thank you to you and your listeners for taking the same amount of time, right?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's really been, you know, it's a rainy day over here in New York, and you've made at least my day uh much brighter.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love these, I love these kinds of conversations.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we too.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you ever want to have another one and just talk science, I'm up for it.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're gonna invite her right back on as many times as possible.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be like stalking your calendar, like when can I get an hour in?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, okay, well, everyone listening, I'll be back next time.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: But Leslie, thank you so much.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much, Ecta.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: Bye, everybody.
• 44:02
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