Latest / Pod Save America / 2020: Beto O’Rourke on Biden, Iran and the puppy primary

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2020: Beto O’Rourke on Biden, Iran and the puppy primary · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. This is Tommy Vitor. Thanks
0:23
Speaker 1: for tuning in to another one of our Pod Save
0:26
Speaker 1: America candidate series. Today's guest is is Congressman Beto O'Rourke
0:31
Speaker 1: of Texas. He is running for president. He came to
0:35
Speaker 1: visit us here in Los Angeles, and we talked about
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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff. I asked him about some
0:41
Speaker 1: of Vice President Biden's recent comments that were a touch controversial.
0:46
Speaker 1: We'll leave it there. We talked about his immigration plan,
0:49
Speaker 1: his plan to expand voting access, why he changed his
0:52
Speaker 1: mind on the Bernie Sanders Medicare for All bill. We
0:56
Speaker 1: talked through a We talked about funding for Latin America
1:02
Speaker 1: and what he'd do about Venezuela. We also talked about some,
1:05
Speaker 1: you know, random stuff. We talked about people getting radicalized
1:07
Speaker 1: online and what we can do about it. And he
1:09
Speaker 1: gave his pitch for why Artemis should be the next
1:13
Speaker 1: first dog. So thank you for tuning in. It was
1:16
Speaker 1: great to have Congressman O'Rourke in studio. As always, I'm
1:19
Speaker 1: going to take a moment to plug Pod Save the World.
1:21
Speaker 1: If you are not subscribed, I need you to hit pause.
1:25
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Pod Save the World, then restart the show.
1:29
Speaker 1: we're doing good stuff. Okay. Here's Congressman Beto O'Rourke. My
1:39
Speaker 1: guest today is from the great state of Texas, Congressman
1:42
Speaker 1: Beto O'Rourke, running for president. It's great to have you
1:44
Speaker 1: in the Crooked Media HQ. Thank you for doing this.
1:47
Speaker 2: Good to be at the world headquarters. Thanks for having me.
1:51
Speaker 1: First question. Let's just dive into it here. So There
1:55
Speaker 1: are 23 Democrats running for president. It is this big, diverse,
1:58
Speaker 1: impressive field of people. I think we all have a
2:02
Speaker 1: good handle on the challenges we face. We all want
2:04
Speaker 1: to be Trump. People are struggling to figure out with
2:08
Speaker 1: all these great candidates who can win and who will
2:10
Speaker 1: be the best president. So can you make your pitch
2:12
Speaker 1: for why you're the one who could be Trump and
2:15
Speaker 1: why you would be the best person to serve in
2:17
Speaker 1: the job if elected?
2:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you mentioned this historic set of challenges, climate,
2:23
Speaker 2: health care. an economy that is not working for far
2:27
Speaker 2: too many people. And you mentioned Trump as well. This
2:31
Speaker 2: country already very polarized. He is dividing further every day.
2:36
Speaker 2: This democracy already badly broken. He's undermining at every turn.
2:42
Speaker 2: So in other words, we've really got our work cut
2:44
Speaker 2: out for us. And it's important that we beat Trump.
2:48
Speaker 2: It's really important that we meet these challenges that we face,
2:52
Speaker 2: which in almost every instance, preceded Trump, but were just
2:55
Speaker 2: made much worse by him. So in order to do this,
2:59
Speaker 2: I think we've got to bring something different to the
3:01
Speaker 2: campaign and something different to the country. If we're divided,
3:05
Speaker 2: we've got to find a way to bring people in.
3:08
Speaker 2: If this democracy doesn't work, we've got to find a
3:10
Speaker 2: way to fix it. Everything that I'm about, everything that
3:15
Speaker 2: I've ever been a part of has been bringing people
3:18
Speaker 2: in and making democracy work for everyone. So Um, small,
3:22
Speaker 2: but I hope telling example on city council for six years,
3:26
Speaker 2: every single week I held a town hall meeting and
3:29
Speaker 2: it's important for me to listen to my constituents on
3:32
Speaker 2: proposals for economic development or how to make sure that
3:36
Speaker 2: we balance the budget, which we did every one of
3:37
Speaker 2: those six years, even to listen to those whom I
3:41
Speaker 2: could not help your, your neighbor's dog was barking too
3:43
Speaker 2: loud last night, but you were, you were going to
3:45
Speaker 2: make sure that you, you let me know about it. Yeah.
3:48
Speaker 2: That direct accountability, fundamental to a successful democracy, made me
3:53
Speaker 2: such a better representative and also ensured that when we
3:57
Speaker 2: had to take on the tough fights, an example in 2009,
4:01
Speaker 2: extending health care benefits to the same-sex partners of city employees,
4:06
Speaker 2: despite the blowback and the recall elections, I had a
4:10
Speaker 2: grounding in working with my constituents, regardless of the differences
4:14
Speaker 2: between us. taking that same approach to a campaign against
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Speaker 2: an incumbent and against the odds for Congress in 2012,
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Speaker 2: and winning by going door to door, bringing in new
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Speaker 2: voters who had not participated maybe ever, giving them a
4:27
Speaker 2: reason to register, or folks who dropped out for the
4:30
Speaker 2: last 15 or 20 years, including their voices and their
4:33
Speaker 2: concerns in our campaign. We won that race and used
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Speaker 2: that same level of accountability to deliver on expanding veterans' healthcare,
4:43
Speaker 2: for example, or protecting public lands all of which happened
4:47
Speaker 2: while I was in the minority. So finding Republicans and
4:50
Speaker 2: Democrats alike with whom I could work, getting that signed
4:52
Speaker 2: into law by Barack Obama, getting that signed into law
4:56
Speaker 2: by the one person with whom I agree on almost nothing,
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Speaker 2: Donald J. Trump, but proving that we will work with anyone, anytime,
5:03
Speaker 2: anywhere to advance this country's agenda. And then lastly, Texas.
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Speaker 2: So here's a state that had ranked 50th in voter turnout,
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Speaker 2: not by accident, 100% on purpose, by design, drawn that
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Speaker 2: way through racial gerrymandering to diminish the power of your
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Speaker 2: vote or your voice, depending on the color of your skin.
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Speaker 2: We went to every single one of the 254 counties
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Speaker 2: of Texas without a single dime from a single political
5:32
Speaker 2: action committee, showed up with the courage of our convictions,
5:36
Speaker 2: a bold progressive agenda, but also showed up to listen
5:40
Speaker 2: and to learn and to include people and their stories
5:43
Speaker 2: in the campaign that we were running. And at the
5:45
Speaker 2: end of the day, though, we did not defeat Ted Cruz.
5:49
Speaker 2: We won more votes than any Democrat has ever won
5:51
Speaker 2: in the history of the state. We won independence for
5:54
Speaker 2: the first time in decades and brought along nearly half
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Speaker 2: a million Republicans who voted for Greg Abbott, very conservative
6:00
Speaker 2: Tea Party Republican, for governor and voted for me on
6:03
Speaker 2: the same ballot, not despite but because of the progressive
6:07
Speaker 2: campaign that we ran in what is thought to be
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Speaker 2: one of the reddest states in the country. And we
6:13
Speaker 2: transformed our democracy no longer 50th in voter turnout. Those
6:16
Speaker 2: 38 electoral college votes now unlocked forever changing the political
6:21
Speaker 2: landscape in America. And that movement led by young people
6:25
Speaker 2: who turned out 500% greater than the last midterm election
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Speaker 2: in early voting. So in other words, if you do
6:32
Speaker 2: not count anybody out or down, if you don't take
6:35
Speaker 2: anyone for granted, if you include everyone in a bold,
6:38
Speaker 2: progressive agenda, you can lead a grassroots movement. That's what
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Speaker 2: it's going to take to defeat Donald Trump. That's what
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Speaker 2: it's going to take to meet the greatest challenges we've
6:46
Speaker 2: ever faced in our administration.
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Speaker 1: So congratulations, you did it. That's speech one. You're elected president.
6:52
Speaker 1: You're sitting in the Oval Office. What you choose to
6:55
Speaker 1: do first matters a lot, right? Because you can burn
6:57
Speaker 1: political capital, administrations get overtaken by events, like whatever. So
7:02
Speaker 1: you can hammer out executive orders all you want, but
7:04
Speaker 1: that first legislative priority really matters. What would President O'Rourke
7:08
Speaker 1: put to Congress first?
7:10
Speaker 2: If I think about the single greatest threat that we face,
7:15
Speaker 2: it's the fact that this climate is changing. And that's
7:18
Speaker 2: produced not as an act of God, not from Mother Nature,
7:22
Speaker 2: but from you and from me and from people in
7:25
Speaker 2: this country and around the world through our emissions, our excesses,
7:29
Speaker 2: and in our inaction in the face of the facts
7:31
Speaker 2: and the science. And the fires that we've seen here
7:33
Speaker 2: in California preceded by historic droughts in this state, the
7:37
Speaker 2: floods in Houston, Texas, the floods we're seeing on both
7:40
Speaker 2: sides of Iowa, along the Missouri, along the Mississippi, these
7:45
Speaker 2: disasters that are consuming the lives of our fellow Americans,
7:49
Speaker 2: our property and entire communities in some cases, that will
7:53
Speaker 2: pale in comparison to the hell that awaits our kids
7:56
Speaker 2: unless we take action now. And so responding in the boldest,
8:00
Speaker 2: the most confident, the most courageous way, distinguishing ourselves by
8:04
Speaker 2: the way that we meet the greatest challenge. We have
8:07
Speaker 2: to lead on that because the clock is ticking and
8:10
Speaker 2: the scientists tell us that there are roughly 10 years
8:14
Speaker 2: left to us to free ourselves from a dependence on
8:17
Speaker 2: fossil fuel, to make sure that every single one of
8:20
Speaker 2: us is doing our part, that we're fortifying those communities.
8:23
Speaker 2: Very often, lower income, and communities of color that are
8:26
Speaker 2: on the front lines of climate change and pollution to
8:29
Speaker 2: make sure that we not only survive this, but we
8:31
Speaker 2: lead the world in making sure that we overcome this challenge.
8:35
Speaker 2: So there are a host of threats and challenges that
8:39
Speaker 2: we face. That is the single greatest. I think it's
8:42
Speaker 2: important that we begin by bringing this entire country together
8:45
Speaker 2: around the solutions to it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's worth noting, folks, one more detail. It's
8:49
Speaker 1: one of the major policy platforms on your website, so
8:51
Speaker 1: they can check that out. I don't want to dwell
8:54
Speaker 1: on Trump today, but just one question. I mean, Vice
8:58
Speaker 1: President Biden basically argues that Trump is an aberration and
9:01
Speaker 1: that Republicans will come to their senses once Trump is gone.
9:05
Speaker 1: Do you agree and do you believe that cordial relations
9:09
Speaker 1: between Vice President Biden and segregationist senators is a good
9:13
Speaker 1: example of civility in politics?
9:16
Speaker 2: Look, the Republican Party of today, at least politically, those
9:22
Speaker 2: Republican members of Congress, is complicit in what this president
9:27
Speaker 2: is doing, absolutely tearing apart this country and tearing down
9:31
Speaker 2: our democracy. If you had any doubt about the president's
9:36
Speaker 2: efforts to collude with Russia, then those were completely dispelled.
9:41
Speaker 2: And it became crystal clear to you when he admitted
9:43
Speaker 2: to George Stephanopoulos that he would take the help of
9:47
Speaker 2: a foreign power to defeat his opponent in November of 2020.
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Speaker 2: And where was the outrage from the Republican Party? I mean,
9:54
Speaker 2: if you had any doubt that he sought to obstruct
9:57
Speaker 2: justice into the investigation of what happened to our democracy.
10:01
Speaker 2: in 2016, then his firing of James Comey or his
10:04
Speaker 2: tweeting to his attorney general to stop the investigation or
10:07
Speaker 2: his calling of Vladimir Putin after the Mueller report is
10:10
Speaker 2: released and describes that as a hoax, giving the guy
10:13
Speaker 2: a green light to invade this democracy again, or Bob
10:17
Speaker 2: Mueller's crystal clear public statement that when the subject of
10:21
Speaker 2: an investigation lies to investigators or seeks to obstruct that investigation,
10:26
Speaker 2: he strikes at the very heart of our government of, for,
10:30
Speaker 2: and by people. Where is the Republican Party on this?
10:34
Speaker 2: And who cares about our prospects in the next election,
10:40
Speaker 2: about polling numbers? This is the very future and fate
10:43
Speaker 2: of this country and our democracy. This is something where
10:47
Speaker 2: country should absolutely, um, Trump party, uh, or, or any
10:51
Speaker 2: other consideration really for, for that matter. So deeply disappointed in, in,
10:56
Speaker 2: in that party and, um, and, and still hold out
10:59
Speaker 2: some hope, although I'm not counting on it, um, that
11:02
Speaker 2: folks are going to come to their senses, those in
11:03
Speaker 2: these positions of public trust who future generations are going
11:06
Speaker 2: to be looking back to, they've got to do the
11:08
Speaker 2: right thing and, and, and the windows closing on the
11:11
Speaker 2: ability to do that. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Um, the Biden comments about segregation of senators, do you
11:17
Speaker 1: think that's a good example of civility?
11:19
Speaker 2: No. The fact that this country is so riven by
11:33
Speaker 2: partisanship being diminished every day by a president who will
11:37
Speaker 2: stop at nothing to secure ever more greater powers for
11:41
Speaker 2: himself might distract us from the fact that for African-Americans
11:46
Speaker 2: in this country from the inception of this country. This
11:49
Speaker 2: country has not worked for them and, in fact, has
11:51
Speaker 2: been actively keeping them down by law and out of
11:56
Speaker 2: greatness and economic success. So one of the most obvious
12:00
Speaker 2: examples that people point to is the fact that we
12:02
Speaker 2: lock up almost two and a half million of our
12:04
Speaker 2: fellow Americans, many there for nonviolent drug crimes, disproportionately comprised
12:10
Speaker 2: of people of color. But it's not just that. It's
12:13
Speaker 2: the economy where there's 10 times the wealth in white
12:15
Speaker 2: America than black America. Healthcare outcomes where you have a
12:19
Speaker 2: maternal mortality crisis in this country that is three times
12:22
Speaker 2: as deadly for women of color. Education in a kindergarten classroom,
12:26
Speaker 2: a four or five-year-old child is five times as likely
12:29
Speaker 2: to be disciplined or suspended or expelled if she is
12:32
Speaker 2: a child of color. So for the vice president to
12:37
Speaker 2: somehow say that, um, What we're seeing in this country
12:40
Speaker 2: today is a function of partisanship or a lack of
12:44
Speaker 2: bipartisanship completely ignores the legacy of slavery and the act
12:50
Speaker 2: of suppression of African-Americans and communities of color right now.
12:54
Speaker 2: So we've got to be focused on the future. And again,
12:58
Speaker 2: it means bringing people in, especially those who've been locked
13:01
Speaker 2: out and estranged from having any ability to participate in
13:06
Speaker 2: the success of of this country. That's what I want
13:08
Speaker 2: to do as president.
13:10
Speaker 1: You proposed a major plan to make it easier to
13:13
Speaker 1: vote and to restore people's faith in government. I was interested,
13:17
Speaker 1: I was hoping you could walk us through the plan
13:19
Speaker 1: briefly and talk about why you made that a priority.
13:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you asked about, you know, the first policy priority,
13:27
Speaker 2: and I talked about climate for reasons that I hope
13:29
Speaker 2: are obvious to all of us, maybe not to the
13:32
Speaker 2: president and much of the Republican Party today. But how
13:36
Speaker 2: are you going to do that? There's been scientific consensus
13:39
Speaker 2: on climate for decades. There's been political consensus actually for
13:43
Speaker 2: 30 years on this. Why have we not been able
13:47
Speaker 2: to act? It's because our institutions of power, Congress as
13:51
Speaker 2: the most telling example, have been captured and corrupted by
13:55
Speaker 2: special interests. Corporations, especially after 2010's Supreme Court decision on
14:00
Speaker 2: Citizens United that They are equated to people and money
14:04
Speaker 2: is speech, and they can spend unlimited amounts to not
14:07
Speaker 2: just affect, but I would argue purchase the outcomes of
14:10
Speaker 2: elections and legislation. Meanwhile, you have people locked out of
14:14
Speaker 2: their democracy. I mentioned the racist gerrymandering in Texas, but
14:18
Speaker 2: Stacey Abrams would be governor right now of Georgia, but
14:21
Speaker 2: for the fact the Secretary of State could successfully and
14:24
Speaker 2: legally purge hundreds of thousands of voters from the rolls
14:27
Speaker 2: in that state, could serve as the referee, in the
14:31
Speaker 2: competition where he was a competitor and crown himself victor
14:35
Speaker 2: at the end of it. So how do we meet
14:38
Speaker 2: this challenge? We free ourselves from the influence of corporate
14:43
Speaker 2: interests and special interests by removing political action committees from
14:47
Speaker 2: federal elections. We make sure that we restore faith in
14:51
Speaker 2: our elections by having paper ballots or paper receipts for
14:55
Speaker 2: every ballot cast. We audit those elections that take place.
14:59
Speaker 2: We ensure that we have the resources to stop future
15:02
Speaker 2: foreign interference and guarantee that there are consequences in this
15:06
Speaker 2: country and outside of this country for those who have
15:09
Speaker 2: welcomed or participated in undermining the world's greatest democracy. And
15:13
Speaker 2: then we bring people in. We call for 55 million
15:17
Speaker 2: more Americans to be registered over the next four years
15:20
Speaker 2: through automatic and same-day voter registration, ensuring those who've been
15:25
Speaker 2: criminally justice involved are not denied their rights to vote
15:28
Speaker 2: once they've paid their debt to society. And then we
15:31
Speaker 2: make sure that barriers in place like those voter roll
15:34
Speaker 2: purges or voter ID laws that we have in Texas
15:38
Speaker 2: are removed through a new Voting Rights Act and then
15:41
Speaker 2: ensure greater access to the ballot box through a national
15:45
Speaker 2: election day holiday to make sure that make it easier
15:48
Speaker 2: for people to cast their vote and ensure that their
15:52
Speaker 2: voice is heard in our democracy. We do all that
15:55
Speaker 2: and so many more things become possible. That's what's different
15:59
Speaker 2: going forward. That's, again, what we bring to this historically
16:02
Speaker 2: in the way that I've run and served and at
16:05
Speaker 2: the heart of what I propose to do as president
16:07
Speaker 2: for this country. Bring everybody in, remove the barriers, and
16:10
Speaker 2: ensure that people, not PACs or corporations, are calling the shots.
16:14
Speaker 1: One piece of the plan that I found particularly interesting
16:16
Speaker 1: was the proposed 12-year term limits for Congress and 18-year
16:20
Speaker 1: term limits for the Supreme Court. So the argument against
16:23
Speaker 1: term limits is that lifetime appointments somehow make judges immune
16:27
Speaker 1: to politics. I I roll my eyes at that. And
16:30
Speaker 1: that congressional term limits push people out right when they
16:33
Speaker 1: become experts. You served in the House. Why do you
16:38
Speaker 1: think some of those bozos need to retire earlier than
16:41
Speaker 1: they would otherwise want to?
16:44
Speaker 2: Look, I'll make the best case for term limits. Amy
16:48
Speaker 2: and I decided when we first ran for Congress in
16:51
Speaker 2: 2012 that I would serve no more than four terms,
16:54
Speaker 2: eight years. And the logic was, you know, The president
16:57
Speaker 2: of the United States can't serve more than eight years.
16:59
Speaker 2: The mayor of El Paso can't serve more than eight years.
17:01
Speaker 2: What's special about a member of Congress? And then Amy's
17:05
Speaker 2: additional push on this is, I don't want you to
17:07
Speaker 2: turn out to be trying to say something polite. I
17:12
Speaker 2: don't want you to be a jerk at the end
17:13
Speaker 2: of this. I don't want you to think that you're
17:15
Speaker 2: more important than anyone else. I see what happens to
17:18
Speaker 2: people who hold on to power too long. So after
17:21
Speaker 2: three terms, six years, chose not to run again. That
17:25
Speaker 2: seat is now held by Veronica Escobar. she became the
17:28
Speaker 2: first woman to ever represent the 16th congressional district in
17:31
Speaker 2: Texas in the history of the district. And the first
17:34
Speaker 2: Latino woman, in addition to Sylvia Garcia, to represent a
17:39
Speaker 2: congressional district in the state of Texas, a state that's
17:42
Speaker 2: more than 40% Mexican American. So by getting out of
17:46
Speaker 2: the way, you demonstrate a faith in the people that
17:49
Speaker 2: you represent. You say, look, out of more than 700,000
17:52
Speaker 2: people in this district, certainly there's someone who will do
17:55
Speaker 2: just as good, if not a better job, than I've
17:57
Speaker 2: been able to do. And we're going to add something
18:02
Speaker 2: to that institution of power that reflects the diversity and
18:05
Speaker 2: the genius of this country. Folks who in some ways
18:08
Speaker 2: have been locked out through the perpetual reelection of members
18:12
Speaker 2: of Congress. And listen, to be intellectually honest, I get
18:15
Speaker 2: the other side of this argument that you lose some
18:17
Speaker 2: of that institutional knowledge. You may empower lobbyists or some
18:22
Speaker 2: people say staff or federal employees. I'm not so concerned
18:26
Speaker 2: about that.
18:26
Speaker 1: They seem pretty empowered.
18:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. Those are people that I so often relied on
18:31
Speaker 2: to be smarter and do a better job. But I
18:34
Speaker 2: think this is about a faith in our democracy and
18:37
Speaker 2: a faith in people and that not any one of
18:40
Speaker 2: us is inherently any better than anyone else. And that
18:45
Speaker 2: if you don't refresh and recharge these institutions, they're not
18:48
Speaker 2: going to reflect the true genius of this country. And
18:51
Speaker 2: you're not going to meet these challenges with the urgency
18:53
Speaker 2: that they demand.
18:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it would be nice if some of
18:55
Speaker 1: the U.S. Senate had like used the internet before. Um,
18:59
Speaker 1: from El Paso, uh, you put out a major immigration
19:02
Speaker 1: proposal that includes protecting DACA recipients and their families from deportation, uh,
19:06
Speaker 1: as well as temporary protected status recipients, uh, ending immigration
19:09
Speaker 1: detention for everyone except I think violent criminals, uh, better
19:13
Speaker 1: resourcing and speeding up the asylum process. And I've heard
19:15
Speaker 1: you talk about potentially tearing down some parts of the
19:18
Speaker 1: border wall. Um, Clearly, immigration is going to be a
19:22
Speaker 1: central part of Trump's campaign. He's going to lie. He's
19:25
Speaker 1: going to scare people. He's going to say there's a
19:26
Speaker 1: caravan on every corner. But do you worry that what
19:30
Speaker 1: you've put forward could be credibly described as opening the
19:33
Speaker 1: border or could be described as creating more of an
19:36
Speaker 1: incentive for people to come to the U.S. at a
19:38
Speaker 1: time when the system is taxed?
19:42
Speaker 2: This is another reason to run. This is another way
19:47
Speaker 2: in which we can distinguish ourselves in an extraordinary field
19:50
Speaker 2: of candidates. The president has trained our focus on the U.S.-Mexico
19:54
Speaker 2: border in an attempt to try to scare us about
19:57
Speaker 2: Mexicans whom he described as rapists and criminals, about caravans
20:01
Speaker 2: that are coming to get us, about asylum seekers. He's
20:04
Speaker 2: described them as an infestation. He's described them as animals.
20:08
Speaker 2: I think it's only when you use language like that
20:09
Speaker 2: that you get kids in cages, that you are able
20:13
Speaker 2: to deport their moms back to the countries from which
20:15
Speaker 2: they fled, that you end up separating families and creating
20:17
Speaker 2: this kind of cruelty that seems so un-American and yet
20:21
Speaker 2: is happening in this country right now. And I'll tell you,
20:25
Speaker 2: having lived there, raising our three kids there, I think
20:29
Speaker 2: I'm able to tell a really powerful and I hope
20:31
Speaker 2: compelling story about immigration being such a positive for this country.
20:37
Speaker 2: not only the right thing to do, not just morally just,
20:40
Speaker 2: but in our own self-interest economically or from the perspective
20:44
Speaker 2: of safety and security. El Paso, Texas is one of
20:47
Speaker 2: the safest cities in the U.S. today, and it's because
20:50
Speaker 2: we are a city of immigrants and asylum seekers and
20:53
Speaker 2: refugees from the world over who are called to us
20:56
Speaker 2: and are making us better by their very presence. And
20:59
Speaker 2: then I'll say this, um, As a Democrat, I've been
21:03
Speaker 2: really frustrated by our party's response to this issue for
21:07
Speaker 2: my entire life. I've seen us be so apologetic and
21:11
Speaker 2: defensive and really kind of half-hearted and making these bargains
21:15
Speaker 2: that never work out. I'm going to get really tough
21:17
Speaker 2: on immigrants. We're going to deport a bunch of people,
21:19
Speaker 2: break up families. We'll vote for walls and fences, though
21:23
Speaker 2: we know they've caused thousands of deaths of people who
21:26
Speaker 2: are trying to join their families or work jobs in
21:28
Speaker 2: this country that no one born in this country would take.
21:31
Speaker 2: But I'm going to do all this so that I
21:32
Speaker 2: can get to a place that will allow me, having
21:35
Speaker 2: shown how tough I was, to do the right thing.
21:38
Speaker 2: We're changing that. This is different. We're going to say
21:41
Speaker 2: doing the right thing makes us safer and more secure,
21:44
Speaker 2: adds to our economy, makes the average American's life far
21:49
Speaker 2: better by ensuring that the 9 million green card holders
21:52
Speaker 2: in this country can become U.S. citizens as quickly as possible,
21:56
Speaker 2: waive their fees as Make sure that we send them
21:59
Speaker 2: pre-filled application forms with the data that they sent us
22:02
Speaker 2: when they first applied for legal permanent residency. For the
22:06
Speaker 2: more than 1 million Dreamers, make them U.S. citizens. Never
22:10
Speaker 2: again allow them to live in any fear of deportation
22:13
Speaker 2: to a country whose language they don't speak, where they
22:16
Speaker 2: no longer have family, where if against those long odds
22:19
Speaker 2: they're successful, they're going to be successful for that place,
22:21
Speaker 2: not here, not your community, not our country. And then
22:25
Speaker 2: the millions who are here, doing the most backbreaking, the
22:28
Speaker 2: shittiest jobs that we have available in America, that no
22:31
Speaker 2: one born in America is willing to do. Allow them
22:35
Speaker 2: to register and get right with our government, contribute even
22:39
Speaker 2: more to our country's success, and ensure that we're living
22:42
Speaker 2: up to the promise of this country that defined itself
22:45
Speaker 2: not by race, not by common genealogy, but by the
22:49
Speaker 2: fact that we are all created equal. And that's the
22:52
Speaker 2: source of our strength. It's the foundation of And we
22:55
Speaker 2: turn our back on that to our peril. So this
22:59
Speaker 2: is ambitious.
23:00
Speaker 1: It is bold.
23:01
Speaker 2: It is confident. It's in the best traditions of the
23:04
Speaker 2: United States of America. And I know that we can
23:08
Speaker 2: bring not just Democrats into this. We can bring independents
23:11
Speaker 2: and Republicans, folks who understand from their communities that this
23:14
Speaker 2: is the right thing to do.
23:16
Speaker 1: I left out a big piece of your plan, which
23:18
Speaker 1: is investing $ 5 billion, mostly through NGOs, I believe, in Guatemala, Honduras,
23:24
Speaker 1: El Salvador, to improve the quality of life for people
23:27
Speaker 1: living in those countries so they don't want to leave.
23:29
Speaker 1: And you've also talked about, I think, creating regional partnerships
23:32
Speaker 1: to get other countries in the region to bring money
23:34
Speaker 1: and provide political support. And I mean, I personally think
23:38
Speaker 1: this is the key to any long-term immigration proposal. If
23:41
Speaker 1: you're a kid or if you're a parent and your
23:44
Speaker 1: kid being forced to join a gang or could get killed,
23:47
Speaker 1: nothing's going to convince you to stick around. But I've
23:50
Speaker 1: also worked on the NSC, and I know how hard
23:53
Speaker 1: it is to convince Americans that it's in their interest
23:55
Speaker 1: to support sending dollars to other countries unless we're blowing
24:00
Speaker 1: them up. So can you make the pitch? How do
24:02
Speaker 1: we convince a skeptical voter that this is a good
24:05
Speaker 1: use of taxpayer dollars?
24:07
Speaker 2: You can just decide where you're going to meet this challenge.
24:10
Speaker 2: If you wait to meet it at the U.S.-Mexico border,
24:14
Speaker 2: and you, for example, believe in a wall, that'll cost
24:16
Speaker 2: you $ 30 billion. You'll have to take our fellow Americans'
24:20
Speaker 2: ranches and homes and farms and properties in order to
24:23
Speaker 2: build it because it won't be built on the true
24:26
Speaker 2: international boundary, the center line of the Rio Grande River Channel.
24:29
Speaker 2: It'll be built well into the interior of the U.S.
24:32
Speaker 2: You can even look at our current costs to accept
24:35
Speaker 2: these asylum seekers if we were to follow our laws.
24:38
Speaker 2: Incredibly expensive to do that. Or for a fraction of
24:41
Speaker 2: the cost, you could invest in reducing violence in Guatemala,
24:46
Speaker 2: in El Salvador, in Honduras, so that no family ever
24:49
Speaker 2: has to make that god-awful decision to send their child
24:52
Speaker 2: on that 2,000-mile trek. And when we empathize and we
24:55
Speaker 2: just put ourselves in the shoes of somebody who would
24:58
Speaker 2: have to make that decision, we realize no parent would
25:02
Speaker 2: ever do that for kicks or to take somebody's job
25:04
Speaker 2: or benefits or to take advantage of another country. You
25:07
Speaker 2: would put your child on that perilous journey if that
25:10
Speaker 2: were the only thing you could do to save her life.
25:13
Speaker 2: That's exactly what people are doing now. So what if
25:15
Speaker 2: we can help them to protect their families and their
25:17
Speaker 2: kids in those countries? And as you mentioned, work with
25:21
Speaker 2: non-governmental organizations, work with communities, neighborhood level policing, and then
25:27
Speaker 2: understand some of our culpability in the problem. We are
25:31
Speaker 2: the largest market for illegal drugs on the planet. We're
25:34
Speaker 2: 4% of the population. We consume 25% of the illegal drugs.
25:39
Speaker 2: That demand and our way of responding to that with
25:43
Speaker 2: the militarization of this drug war in Central America has
25:46
Speaker 2: helped to hollow out some of those civil institutions compounded
25:50
Speaker 2: by decades of intervention in Central America in their civil
25:53
Speaker 2: wars and civic life and in eroding institutions for democracy.
25:58
Speaker 2: We also have some responsibility to do this as well.
26:01
Speaker 2: But again, if I were just to make the most
26:04
Speaker 2: basic self-interest argument, it is far cheaper to to meet
26:09
Speaker 2: this problem at its source than to meet it at
26:11
Speaker 2: the U.S.-Mexico border. And then the larger challenge I think
26:14
Speaker 2: that we have to address is the need to elevate
26:18
Speaker 2: the Western Hemisphere as a priority in foreign policy. It
26:21
Speaker 2: always is forgotten if it was ever remembered at all.
26:26
Speaker 2: And these are the people that we're literally connected to
26:28
Speaker 2: by land, by language, by culture, and increasingly by family.
26:33
Speaker 2: And it should not have come as a surprise to
26:35
Speaker 2: us that tens of thousands of kids showed up on
26:37
Speaker 2: our front door But it was because we were so
26:40
Speaker 2: preoccupied on places half a world away, wars that we've
26:43
Speaker 2: been fighting now for 18 years and counting. So a
26:47
Speaker 2: great opportunity for our administration to elevate the Western Hemisphere,
26:51
Speaker 2: address these problems at their source.
26:53
Speaker 1: Agreed. So a quick health care question. So during the
26:56
Speaker 1: Senate campaign, you talked about your support for Bernie Sanders'
27:00
Speaker 1: Medicare for All bill that would have essentially eliminated the
27:02
Speaker 1: private insurance market. You now say that's not the fastest
27:06
Speaker 1: way to get to universal care. When did you change
27:08
Speaker 1: your mind on that bill and why?
27:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. So two extraordinary women with whom I had the
27:15
Speaker 2: chance to work as a member of Congress introduced a
27:18
Speaker 2: proposal called Medicare for America, Jan Schakowsky of Illinois and
27:23
Speaker 2: Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut. And essentially, this plan says that
27:29
Speaker 2: if you are uninsured today in America, you can enroll
27:32
Speaker 2: in Medicare. It also importantly says that if you're insufficiently insured,
27:37
Speaker 2: so You have insurance, but really it's a name only.
27:39
Speaker 2: You can't afford the copay on the medication. You can't
27:43
Speaker 2: afford the rising premium costs. You can't bridge that deductible
27:46
Speaker 2: before you. You can choose to enroll in Medicare. But
27:50
Speaker 2: if you are somebody who has employer-sponsored insurance and you
27:53
Speaker 2: like it because it works for you and your family,
27:56
Speaker 2: if you're a member of a union that negotiated for
27:59
Speaker 2: a healthcare plan, perhaps in lieu of wage increases or
28:03
Speaker 2: other benefits, and you like that plan, because it works
28:06
Speaker 2: for you and it works for your family, you're able
28:08
Speaker 2: to keep it. I think that gets us to the
28:11
Speaker 2: goal of guaranteed, high-quality, universal care as quickly and as
28:16
Speaker 2: surely as possible. It incorporates the interests of everyone who's
28:21
Speaker 2: concerned about the affordability of prescription medication, the ability for
28:25
Speaker 2: women to make their own decisions about their own body
28:27
Speaker 2: and have access to the healthcare that makes that possible,
28:30
Speaker 2: ensuring that our county jails are no longer the largest
28:33
Speaker 2: providers of mental healthcare services. And it allows people who
28:37
Speaker 2: have insurance that they like right now to be able
28:39
Speaker 2: to keep it going forward.
28:49
Speaker 1: Quick question about sort of your time growing up as
28:52
Speaker 1: a kid. You were kind of messing around on early
28:55
Speaker 1: Internet message boards and these like pseudo hacker communities. You
28:58
Speaker 1: were in a punk band. I can imagine a 2019
29:02
Speaker 1: version of Beto O'Rourke. that is in these same communities
29:05
Speaker 1: and gets pulled into 4chan or force fed some like
29:09
Speaker 1: alt-right bullshit by the YouTube algorithm. And your life goes
29:13
Speaker 1: in a really different direction, you know? And I know
29:15
Speaker 1: you have three kids. Um, do you worry about how
29:18
Speaker 1: many young people are finding friendship and community in some
29:22
Speaker 1: of these dark corners of the internet? And do you
29:23
Speaker 1: think the government has a role in preventing radicalization?
29:29
Speaker 2: The answer to your question is yes. Um, I want
29:33
Speaker 2: to just clarify that nothing about punk rock will lead
29:35
Speaker 2: you down that road. okay um no i but i
29:39
Speaker 2: i get your point so so i'll go back to
29:42
Speaker 2: where you started um so in in the 1980s um
29:46
Speaker 2: awkward um kid who had a hard time socializing um
29:51
Speaker 2: found friendship online well the version of online at the
29:54
Speaker 2: time which was dialing into somebody's computer on a 300 baud.
29:57
Speaker 1: Modem Um, until your mom picks up the phone and
30:01
Speaker 1: you yell at her, you're like, I'm online.
30:02
Speaker 2: Or your dad gets the phone bill.
30:04
Speaker 1: Oh man.
30:04
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
30:05
Speaker 1: I got hammered for our AOL bill.
30:07
Speaker 2: Yes.
30:09
Speaker 1: I was with you. I weighed the same as I
30:10
Speaker 1: do now. And I was much shorter and I was
30:13
Speaker 1: a lot of time in my room.
30:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, but, but here's, here's a positive side of that. Um,
30:18
Speaker 2: I found this extraordinary community, uh, of people who also
30:21
Speaker 2: in some ways were misfits in their hometown or their
30:24
Speaker 2: school or, or in their lives, but, but who came together, uh,
30:28
Speaker 2: online or that version of online. And, and man, that
30:32
Speaker 2: was just a really powerful experience and, and really in
30:36
Speaker 2: some ways, um, kept me going in, in the right direction,
30:40
Speaker 2: you know? Um, so I, I don't want to discount the, the,
30:44
Speaker 2: the value and the positive power of, of online communities. Um, but,
30:48
Speaker 2: but I'll acknowledge your point that there's, there's a really
30:51
Speaker 2: dark side as there is in every aspect of, of life, right? Um, there,
30:54
Speaker 2: there's a dark side to that as well. And when
30:57
Speaker 2: you have people who traffic in hatred and violence and
31:03
Speaker 2: incitement based on race or religion or the differences that
31:10
Speaker 2: should not matter, it helps to explain some of the
31:13
Speaker 2: rise in public hatred that we see right now. You know,
31:18
Speaker 2: right outside the United States Capitol, I think very recently, Charlottesville, Virginia,
31:23
Speaker 2: just a couple of years ago, and a president who
31:25
Speaker 2: then– says that Klansmen and Nazis and white supremacists are
31:31
Speaker 2: very fine people. He's in part responding to a base
31:35
Speaker 2: that has been nurtured in these online communities, unfettered and undisturbed,
31:41
Speaker 2: especially by the platforms that enable this. And so I
31:45
Speaker 2: think expecting far more out of Facebook and Twitter and
31:51
Speaker 2: other digital platforms where people congregate, to combat this kind
31:58
Speaker 2: of hatred, and also to acknowledge that really young people
32:02
Speaker 2: are on there and are receiving an education in intolerance
32:06
Speaker 2: that's going to manifest itself in violence. You've seen a
32:09
Speaker 2: rise in hate crimes every single one of the last
32:11
Speaker 2: three years in this country. Much of that is Donald Trump,
32:15
Speaker 2: but a lot of it is what is allowed to
32:18
Speaker 2: grow and exist unchallenged and unchecked. So I do see
32:22
Speaker 2: a role for government to help regulate that. I do
32:25
Speaker 2: see greater responsibility through enforcement of these social media platforms
32:31
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're protecting people and that everyone
32:35
Speaker 2: is able to thrive in this country without fear of
32:37
Speaker 2: our differences.
32:38
Speaker 1: I want to turn to a couple of foreign policy questions.
32:41
Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of loose talk about Iran lately,
32:46
Speaker 1: whether to go to war with them. You're seeing New
32:50
Speaker 1: York Times columnists, senators, members of the administration. If Iran
32:53
Speaker 1: did sabotage the two commercial vessels in the Gulf of
32:56
Speaker 1: Oman with these limpet mines and they continue to enrich
32:59
Speaker 1: uranium above the level set by the JCPOA, what do
33:03
Speaker 1: you think the Trump administration should do about it to
33:06
Speaker 1: stop them?
33:08
Speaker 2: America should find a way to work in concert with
33:12
Speaker 2: other countries, primarily our allies, but countries who may have
33:17
Speaker 2: a shared interest in stability in the region to ensure
33:21
Speaker 2: that peacefully without invading Iran, without firing a shot, we're
33:25
Speaker 2: able to resolve what would otherwise be an intractable problem,
33:30
Speaker 2: in part because we know that the cost and consequence
33:34
Speaker 2: of invasion and military action will be measured in lives
33:37
Speaker 2: lost or fellow Americans who will be sacrificed, lives taken
33:41
Speaker 2: in the name of this country, and an understanding that
33:44
Speaker 2: rarely has military intervention produced the results that we're looking for.
33:49
Speaker 2: the CIA-led coup in Iran in 1953, the democratically elected Mossadegh,
33:56
Speaker 2: in part produced the revolution that we saw in 1979
34:00
Speaker 2: and the impasse that we face today in 2019. We
34:03
Speaker 2: were talking about Central America earlier the next year, 1954, again,
34:08
Speaker 2: CIA-led coup in Guatemala, deposing Jacob Arbenz Guzman, leading to
34:14
Speaker 2: instability that has persisted to this very day. President Trump
34:20
Speaker 2: has made it very hard for us, though, to do
34:22
Speaker 2: this and to do it the right way, not just
34:24
Speaker 2: through the saber-rattling and the threatening of war, but by
34:27
Speaker 2: exiting the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, which is one
34:30
Speaker 2: of the greatest foreign policy feats of the United States
34:34
Speaker 2: in the modern era, certainly of the Obama administration. The
34:37
Speaker 2: fact that we could bring the permanent members of the
34:40
Speaker 2: UN Security Council, Germany and Iran, all to the table
34:43
Speaker 2: and be able to stop them from pursuing nuclear weapons
34:47
Speaker 2: is and begin the process of addressing other tough challenges
34:53
Speaker 2: that Iran poses, the funding of terrorism in the Middle East,
34:58
Speaker 2: their development of ballistic missiles, their support of the Houthis
35:03
Speaker 2: in Yemen and the instability in that civil war that
35:05
Speaker 2: we see in that region. I felt like that was
35:08
Speaker 2: a great start towards addressing those other issues. Now we
35:11
Speaker 2: have no one with whom to meet at the table.
35:13
Speaker 2: Iran's not going to trust us again. Europeans don't know
35:17
Speaker 2: how to handle a country that breaks its word and
35:20
Speaker 2: its commitments. And that has made us less, not more secure, less,
35:23
Speaker 2: not more safe, and has really made war a more
35:27
Speaker 2: likely outcome and option as we are seeing play out
35:30
Speaker 2: right now. So yes, let's hold Iran accountable. Let's do
35:34
Speaker 2: this through partners and allies and friends. We're much more
35:37
Speaker 2: likely to be successful and achieve our aims.
35:41
Speaker 1: Sticking with the region, you've talked about Israeli Prime Minister
35:44
Speaker 1: Bibi Netanyahu. You mentioned you've I think the quote was,
35:48
Speaker 1: he openly sided with racists. If he follows through on
35:52
Speaker 1: his campaign pledge to annex the West Bank, do you
35:55
Speaker 1: think we should cut assistance to Israel? And given some
35:59
Speaker 1: of the racist things he's done and said, do you
36:00
Speaker 1: think he's committed to a peace agreement?
36:06
Speaker 2: It is in our national security interests. It is in
36:09
Speaker 2: the interests of the people of Israel and the Palestinian
36:13
Speaker 2: Authority for there to be a two-state solution. Annexing the
36:19
Speaker 2: West Bank would spike any opportunity to achieve that, which
36:27
Speaker 2: would promote greater instability and violence in the region. It
36:31
Speaker 2: would make Israel less safe, make it less likely that
36:34
Speaker 2: you would ever achieve full human rights and dignity for
36:38
Speaker 2: the Palestinians. So it's got to be our priority, and
36:43
Speaker 2: it would be my goal as president. to make sure
36:45
Speaker 2: that we achieve a two-state solution, to provide encouragement, to
36:49
Speaker 2: facilitate where we can, to do so with the humility
36:51
Speaker 2: of understanding that we cannot impose this solution. But it's
36:54
Speaker 2: going to be tough because in addition to Prime Minister
36:59
Speaker 2: Netanyahu and his threat to annex the West Bank, his
37:02
Speaker 2: warning that Arabs are coming to the polls in a
37:04
Speaker 2: previous election, his siding with openly racist parties, in the
37:08
Speaker 2: Palestinian Authority with Abbas, you don't have a full partner
37:11
Speaker 2: for peace either. You don't have somebody who can quell
37:15
Speaker 2: the incitement or control the violence, or who can demonstrate
37:18
Speaker 2: a willingness to make the necessary concessions to get to
37:21
Speaker 2: that desired goal. Um, so, so I say this, um,
37:27
Speaker 2: knowing that it's going to be extraordinarily difficult, um, given
37:32
Speaker 2: the two leaders that we have in, in the region, um, but,
37:35
Speaker 2: but also making that commitment. And I would be hesitant
37:39
Speaker 2: to describe, um, uh, you know, punishment or negotiate in
37:46
Speaker 2: public with the Prime Minister right now, only to say
37:49
Speaker 2: that this will be the priority of the United States
37:52
Speaker 2: and that we will work, even if it is Prime
37:54
Speaker 2: Minister Netanyahu in our administration, we will work with anyone
37:57
Speaker 2: to make sure that we secure peace and a two-state solution.
38:01
Speaker 1: There was a pretty depressing coda to the Arab Spring
38:05
Speaker 1: protests in Egypt this week when Mohamed Morsi, who was
38:08
Speaker 1: Egypt's first democratically elected president, died in prison of what
38:12
Speaker 1: appears to be neglect. But at the same time, we're
38:16
Speaker 1: seeing these mass protest movements in Algeria, Sudan, Hong Kong.
38:20
Speaker 1: It does feel like there's sort of an Arab Spring 2.0
38:23
Speaker 1: going on, or maybe it never ended. What did you
38:26
Speaker 1: take away from watching that first round of protest movements
38:29
Speaker 1: that started in 2001? And how do you think the U.S.
38:32
Speaker 1: should respond to or support efforts to beat back authoritarianism?
38:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a good question. And it's obviously... a
38:42
Speaker 2: tough one for us to answer and has been for decades.
38:44
Speaker 2: We mentioned Guatemala in 1954, Iran in 1953. We've always,
38:50
Speaker 2: or not always, well, maybe always struggled with short-term security interests,
38:57
Speaker 2: fighting communism or fighting international terrorism today and compromising our
39:02
Speaker 2: values for democracy and independence and freedom in order to
39:08
Speaker 2: achieve those short-term security gains. And here we are faced
39:13
Speaker 2: with that again, only in this case, it doesn't seem
39:16
Speaker 2: like there's a struggle on the part of the administration.
39:18
Speaker 2: They've openly sided with dictators and autocrats. Prince Mohammed bin
39:23
Speaker 2: Salman in Saudi Arabia was able to kill an American
39:28
Speaker 2: journalist or journalist based in America. Khashoggi, with absolute impunity.
39:32
Speaker 2: With President Trump, maybe this kind of stuff was said
39:35
Speaker 2: behind doors in the past, openly saying, yeah, but this
39:37
Speaker 2: guy buys billions of dollars in weapons systems from United
39:41
Speaker 2: States defense contractors. So I'm willing to turn a blind
39:43
Speaker 2: eye to that. And the fact that he's bombing Yemen
39:46
Speaker 2: into the last century and precipitating the greatest humanitarian crisis, perhaps,
39:51
Speaker 2: that we've seen since World War II, and that we
39:53
Speaker 2: are effectively a co-combatant. It is Duterte in the Philippines.
39:57
Speaker 2: It's Al-Sisi in Egypt, where Morsi just died in court.
40:04
Speaker 2: It's Erdogan in Turkey. And then to our allies, into
40:07
Speaker 2: the great democracies, we turn the back or give the
40:10
Speaker 2: middle finger. That is going to make us, and already
40:14
Speaker 2: is making us, demonstrably less safe. If we're going to
40:17
Speaker 2: be able to end these wars that we're in, if
40:19
Speaker 2: we're going to be able to confront climate change, if
40:22
Speaker 2: we're going to be able to stop nuclear proliferation, we're
40:25
Speaker 2: going to need partners and allies. And if we're going
40:27
Speaker 2: to answer the big open question that the world has
40:30
Speaker 2: right now, is the future authoritarian or is the future democratic?
40:34
Speaker 2: We're going to have to lead by example around the
40:36
Speaker 2: world and then here at home. Again, why democracy is
40:40
Speaker 2: central to this campaign and to the administration that I
40:44
Speaker 2: hope to lead. So as tough as it is in
40:47
Speaker 2: the short term, I think it's important that America side
40:51
Speaker 2: with democracy. In Egypt, it seems as though we were
40:58
Speaker 2: willing to forsake somebody democratically elected politically and maybe diplomatically
41:04
Speaker 2: inconvenient in favor of somebody who has been incredibly brutal
41:09
Speaker 2: in his repression and has effectively closed down even the
41:13
Speaker 2: nominal democracy that existed before him. That can't be who
41:18
Speaker 2: we are and who we support and what we do
41:20
Speaker 2: going forward. And in my administration, we will absolutely change
41:23
Speaker 2: course in favor of democracy. Yeah.
41:25
Speaker 1: I mean, you talked about the Western hemisphere as often forgotten.
41:28
Speaker 1: I mean, the one place in the Western hemisphere that
41:31
Speaker 1: hasn't been forgotten by this administration has been Venezuela. And,
41:35
Speaker 1: you know, they've done this ham-handed sort of cool light
41:39
Speaker 1: regime change effort where they We're supporting, you know, legitimate,
41:43
Speaker 1: brave opposition leaders like Juan Guaido, Leopoldo Lopez and their
41:47
Speaker 1: efforts to take power. But, you know, meanwhile, we have,
41:51
Speaker 1: I think, four million refugees have already flown out of Venezuela. So,
41:54
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm curious what you make of the administration's
42:01
Speaker 1: efforts to deal with Venezuela diplomatically and how you might
42:03
Speaker 1: approach that.
42:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I'm concerned in much the same way
42:07
Speaker 2: about the administration's threat to invade or bomb Iran, its
42:13
Speaker 2: threat to bomb North Korea, its threat to invade Venezuela,
42:17
Speaker 2: a threat that this president made, and perhaps unwittingly diminishing
42:24
Speaker 2: Guaido's stature, you know, with the memory of Pinochet, with
42:27
Speaker 2: the memory of Arbenz Guzman, with the memory of active
42:31
Speaker 2: American involvement in civil wars and overthrowing legitimately elected democratic leaders,
42:39
Speaker 2: in some ways we complicated Guaido's path to effectively represent
42:44
Speaker 2: the resistance to Maduro and the ability to stabilize a
42:50
Speaker 2: country that is absolutely out of control. Once the richest
42:55
Speaker 2: country in Latin America, People are starving. They're going without medications.
43:00
Speaker 2: I think Colombia alone has absorbed 1.5 million refugees. This
43:06
Speaker 2: is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, humanitarian
43:08
Speaker 2: disasters in the Western Hemisphere. So enough of the saber rattling.
43:14
Speaker 2: Focus on resolving the humanitarian urgency that we have in
43:20
Speaker 2: people dying or potentially dying. And then work collaboratively with
43:24
Speaker 2: the other stakeholders in the region, with Colombia, with Mexico,
43:28
Speaker 2: with our partners in Latin America to provide stability, a
43:32
Speaker 2: transition of power, and then a democratically elected government.
43:37
Speaker 1: Two final, much less serious or important questions. First, do
43:42
Speaker 1: you think that the way the DNC is structured and
43:44
Speaker 1: handled the debates has made sense or worked? Is this
43:47
Speaker 1: a good way to run a railroad?
43:49
Speaker 2: I don't know that it makes sense. I don't know
43:52
Speaker 2: You've got this really good problem where you have 23
43:56
Speaker 2: or 24 people, all of whom bring extraordinary expertise and
44:01
Speaker 2: biography and skills to this campaign and to what they
44:05
Speaker 2: want to provide for this country as president. And that's
44:10
Speaker 2: a great sign for our party. I think it's a
44:12
Speaker 2: great sign for this country and our democracy. How do
44:16
Speaker 2: you facilitate the conversation necessary for people to make an
44:19
Speaker 2: informed decision when it comes time to caucus or to
44:22
Speaker 2: vote in the primary? So, for example, this 10 and
44:27
Speaker 2: 10 over two nights in Florida, maybe that was the
44:31
Speaker 2: best way to do it. The threshold of, I don't
44:33
Speaker 2: know what it was, 65,000 unique donations and a certain
44:36
Speaker 2: polling level. Maybe that's the right way to do it.
44:40
Speaker 2: So I'm participating, obviously, in these debates. I'm looking forward
44:44
Speaker 2: to it. But I'm also really focused on meeting people
44:47
Speaker 2: where they are through town halls that we've been holding
44:50
Speaker 2: all over the country, going to big blue communities, going
44:54
Speaker 2: to rural red communities, just listening and making sure that
44:58
Speaker 2: I have a chance to introduce myself and then take
45:00
Speaker 2: the questions from the people whom I want to serve
45:02
Speaker 2: and learn from them in the process. So I loathe
45:07
Speaker 2: to second guess how I would do this differently. I
45:11
Speaker 2: just think you want to make sure that every one
45:14
Speaker 2: of these candidates has a chance to make their case,
45:17
Speaker 2: to answer questions. And then we make the best, most
45:21
Speaker 2: informed decision for defeating Donald Trump and then bringing this
45:24
Speaker 2: country together around the greatest challenges we've ever faced.
45:28
Speaker 1: Last question. As you know, because you gave Leo a
45:32
Speaker 1: treat coming in, we're a very pro-dog podcast. So Elizabeth
45:35
Speaker 1: Warren's golden retriever, Bailey, has been getting a lot of press,
45:38
Speaker 1: has a big social media presence. and is reportedly a
45:40
Speaker 1: very good boy. Can you make the case for why
45:43
Speaker 1: Artemis should be chasing tennis balls on the South Lawn
45:47
Speaker 1: and State?
45:48
Speaker 2: Oh, so Artemis is amazing. Amy and I were just
45:55
Speaker 2: talking about this the other day. She took our kids
46:00
Speaker 2: on a backpacking trip with her two brothers and their
46:02
Speaker 2: kids and took Artemis. And she said, no matter... you know,
46:07
Speaker 2: how far the leader on the trail was from the
46:10
Speaker 2: last person on the trail. Artemis is going back and
46:13
Speaker 2: forth the entire way to make sure that everyone's okay,
46:16
Speaker 2: constantly checking on them. So she's incredibly loyal and faithful
46:22
Speaker 2: and is there to, you know, protect the family and
46:25
Speaker 2: the extended family. So I don't know, those characteristics, she's
46:31
Speaker 2: incredibly um, loving and cute, um, great dog to, to
46:35
Speaker 2: run with.
46:36
Speaker 1: She was maligned as a turtle eater.
46:38
Speaker 2: You know, that was my bad. I'll tell you the
46:40
Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence. What was, um, was pretty clear that, you know,
46:45
Speaker 2: she had taken the turtle food out of the turtle
46:47
Speaker 2: container into the backyard and eating it. There was like
46:50
Speaker 2: turtle food wrapper everywhere. The turtle was missing. I've thought,
46:54
Speaker 2: you know, she ate the turtle food. Why not just
46:55
Speaker 2: eat the turtle as well? The turtle later showed up.
46:58
Speaker 2: I think she, she picked up the turtle. Um, in
47:01
Speaker 2: perhaps an attempt to eat it, I believe the turtle
47:04
Speaker 2: bit her. Oh, that's that's this is conjecture. And then
47:07
Speaker 2: Artemis dropped the turtle and the turtle went into a
47:09
Speaker 2: closet where it hid for three days until, until we
47:12
Speaker 2: found it. Um, update on this, uh, Molly, our 10
47:16
Speaker 2: year old who volunteers at an animal rescue, um, just
47:20
Speaker 2: adopted two more box turtles that were found and rescued
47:23
Speaker 2: and treated and cared for. So Gus has two more
47:27
Speaker 2: friends in the turtle enclosure. So we're adding to the
47:31
Speaker 2: household zoo that Molly's running right now.
47:34
Speaker 1: That's a happy ending. You're like a pizza away from
47:38
Speaker 1: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Thank you for doing this, Congressman
47:42
Speaker 1: Beto O'Rourke. Great to see you. Best of luck out there.
47:45
Speaker 2: Grateful. Thank you.
47:52
Speaker 1: Thank you.