Latest / Your Dark Companion Podcast / Mavs Makeover: Flagg’s Fit, Kyrie’s Steady Hand & the Lakers’ Wild Sale | Tim McMahon | Ep 254

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Mavs Makeover: Flagg’s Fit, Kyrie’s Steady Hand & the Lakers’ Wild Sale | Tim McMahon | Ep 254 · Your Dark Companion Podcast

• Nobody would have thought that I would be the one. Ryder, sports talk. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Oh, with the big mic. Oh, okay. Alright. Yeah. Okay. Now I get it. We got a lightning strike, boys. What happened over there, Grego? We had a little lightning strike right outside the window. The Texas Rangers win the world series. Alright. Alright. Here's a tip for all these Americano late teams. Don't what? You said tip. Yeah. Tip. Okay. With a p. I would Keep jamming. The ticket the ticket colon, nothing but a big Gen X jerk off set. Is this a cool night or what? I know somebody would hear that go bullshit. I'm back, bitches. And hello, one and all. It is another episode of your dark companion in your face today right here, right now from the nurturing biosphere of the mothership. This is Monday, August 24. And, today, we're going to turn our attention to a little bit of basketball because this is one of those rare occasions in which we have an NBA insider Oh. With us. Yes. He is too. And if you don't believe me, believe ESPN. They pay him to be one. A lot. So we're told. He is a guy who has been on the sports writing scene for a good period of time around here. But number one, he's been excellent on everything he's been charged with doing. And number two, now that he's on ESPN, he is all over the place. He's been on with us once already. We're glad to have him again today. It is the great Tim McMahon. Howdy, partner. That was quite an intro, man. Mhmm. Really pumped me up. All true. Appreciate it. All true. Group said I'm paid a lot. I I'd like to make that true, but I'll I'll resend that. Here we go. We'll redact it. Well, how you been? Can't complain. You know, it's summertime and The off season? Off season? Is it a little oh, I guess just by the very nature of it being the off season, it's a little less frantic, shall we say, for a guy like you. Yeah. You gotta squeeze in all your vacation between the end of summer league and the start of school. So there's been all that, but that's a good kind of frantic. Yeah. And, you know, now we've got what, a little over a month before camps open and trying to slack off as much as possible. That's a good thing to do. I don't know if you've noticed this or not, but it's been a period of pretty radical change for the Dallas Basketball Mavericks. It has been. And I would like to get into a little bit of that with you today because it's way, way different now. Just a little bit. Yeah. Things have changed slightly since the last time that I was here. Then things had changed drastically just before the last time I was here. Yes. That's right. It's a period of change for sure. So, let's I don't know. Let's start at the top. I I guess job one for the Mavericks going into this basketball season was to find a new director of basketball operations slash general manager, however they wanna put it. Yeah. President. Yeah. President. What Masayaji Uri is. Yep. Yeah. And because, you know, all the other decisions trickle down off of that. A lot of the decisions become Masayoshi Uri's decisions. But I would say job one is don't screw up the gift that you've been given. Don't screw up the second chance. Yes. That the franchise has been given to build around a prodigy. And so then job one of that is get a guy who knows what he's doing to run the basketball operations. Do you think they did that? I mean there's no question they did that. There's no guarantee that it works for Masai here, but like you you can't doubt his credentials. Built a championship team before. You know, he's taken teams. He's he's built perennial playoff teams in two different stops. First in Denver, and then when Denver was cheap, goes to Toronto. And I think it's twelve out of fifteen years for him running basketball operations that his team went to the playoffs. You know, obviously, it took a massive risk, to to get the raptors to the top of the mountain, But he went all in on the Kawhi trade. Wyatt was in Toronto for one year and one year only, for now at least. But he won a championship and as my buddy Brian Winher says, winning a championship means you never have to say you're sorry. So he certainly never has to apologize. He's not wrong about that. He never has to apologize for anything that went down in Toronto. And again, the credentials are are unquestioned. If it doesn't if it doesn't work out for Masai, it's not because they hired the wrong guy. I mean there's a million things. You gotta have some luck. You gotta have. Yeah. Sure. Lot of things break your way, etcetera. But Patrick Dumont gave himself cover by hiring somebody who's unquestionably competent. Yeah. But as you say, it's like anything else. You know? There's always the element of crap shoot. He could come in here, do everything right, and still things, once they get out there on the floor, may not go right. You know? Yeah. Well, and let's be honest, he's coming in and he's gonna have some handcuffs on. Mean you look at their picks over the next four years, they don't control any of them. No. Only way they have their pick this year if it's in the top two. After that it's a swap with OKC. I can tell you the range where the Mavericks will be drafted. It'll be 28, 29, or 30. After that, it's the Houston Rockets property. After that, it's swap with the Spurs. Again, I don't think that's gonna be a high pick for the Mavericks. So it's crazy because of all they did to build a finals team around Luka. Now it's gonna be really you know, there's some real challenge. I mean, it's impossible, but there are some real challenges as they start to build around Cooper Flagg. Let's talk a little bit about the building around the build around with Cooper Flagg. Somebody like this who is such an incredibly well rounded player. Mhmm. I watch him, and I think, okay. What kind of guy fits well with that? Talented. Yeah. Mean seriously. That's probably the main thing. But still, there is the matter of style of play and everything like that. Mean Yeah, I think that Cooper is, again, he he's also 19 years old. Like, we don't know what he's gonna become. But what we know is he's six eight, six nine, is going to be physically imposing. I mean, came in the league not even able to connect his mustache and goatee, and then had an NBA physique. We're gonna look up in two or three years, he's gonna be six nine, like two thirty five, and one of the most athletic guys on the floor. And an extremely versatile skill set. I mean, he can handle it. He showed last year without a lot of space, and he can be a primary scorer as a teenager. That was the big question. Like, is he ever gonna be able to be a number one option? We already showed you Mhmm. That he can be. And so we'll see how he grows as a number one option. Defensively, I mean, he can guard one through four, maybe even one through five. You know, has playmaking ability. You know, at this point, the question is, how's the jump shot gonna come along? And so, you know, I would say you need another playmaker to go along with him. You don't want him to have the sole responsibility, know, although Jay Kidd certainly gave it to him right away. Mhmm. And then you need you need shooting around him, but you need like, every NBA team needs shooting. That's not unique to Cooper Flagg. And then, you know, clearly, they want to build this tough physical team. I mean, you know, they have a lottery pick this year, and they didn't go with a super skilled guy. They went with a, you a big guy, a tough guy, a physical guy. We look at Mares Johnson Jr, there's athleticism, there's size, there's toughness, intelligence, intangibles. But we'll see how he shoots the ball. So I mean you can kinda see what they're thinking is let's be a smart, tough, physical team, which Cooper Flagg is all those things. Then I think they'll look to add skill as they go. Yeah. But this roster now is obviously extremely incomplete. Yeah. On the subject of Johnson, the number one pick this year. As you say, he's big. He comes along with the coach. We'll get into him in just a bit here, but he knows the coach. He played for him. They won the national championship together. So they're very, very familiar with each other. Dusty May is very familiar with what he's got and vice versa. All that said, I mean, how's a guy like that develop a shot I mean in the NBA? The the one skill that guys develop in the NBA is shooting. You know, the coach they just fired is is a classic example of that. Remember, came in the league and it was acing kid. Yeah. And then he ends up, know, late in his career, he's a forty percent three point shooter. And, you know, you look at like three pointers made, he's up there on the all time list. I mean, there's a long list of guys who have developed a three point shot. You know, the guy who honestly, I hear Cooper fly compared to most often is Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi came in the league as a non shooter. Yeah. And and now is a hell of a jump shooter. I mean, you know, there's a lot of other things to go along with, but, you know, he he became a damn good shooter. So shooting is the one skill that you do see guys really develop as they come in the league. But I'll tell you with Mahrez Johnson, I'm curious to see early on, like, how exactly he fits in terms of position. Is he playing primarily the five? Is he playing the four? They've got a ton of fours. Mhmm. You know, they've got a couple fives, but they got a couple fives who unfortunately have had a hard time staying on the floor. So I I'm yeah. And the and the guy who I honest, the guy in the league I've heard Johnson compared to most often is Bam Adebayo. Yeah. Who is is primarily He's a kind of a skilled five in terms of being able to put it on the floor and and pass the ball and those kind of things. But he's a big, tough, smart, kinda undersized in terms of height center. Who's that out there? Don't worry about it. Okay. One thing that struck me on draft night was, and I don't know. Maybe I'm making too much of this. But one thing that struck me on draft night was the fact that it took the Mavericks almost no time at all to make the pick. Mhmm. Like, they were sitting over there thinking, okay. Nobody's looking at him. If by some miracle that they he gets drafted, then we'll move on. But if he doesn't, let's take him. And they just took him right away. Yeah. That I mean, Are we to make anything of that? I mean, they clearly knew who they wanted, and and it was, hey, everybody good. Let's go. Let's go get them. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, whether they're right or wrong, we will find out, but there wasn't a lot of doubt in the room. Yeah. How much do you think the the familiarity with the new coach had to do with that? I mean, certainly, it was a factor that was a positive for Mares Johnson junior. But Masayu Jiri, as an experienced executive who's won a championship, is not hiring a coach straight out of college and giving him the right to make the draft pick. Yeah. You know what I mean? But still the coach can work him a little bit and say, hey, if this guy's there, let's take him. We we really need I think the working went the other way around. I think Oh, the working was they called Dusty May and and because there was, you know, there's three three Michigan players in the lottery. Right? Yeah. They went, what was it? Nine, eleven, 12. I've you know, they called Dusty May for intel like you do with every single prospect. And then, hey, what do you what do you think about this job? And, you know, that that so they kinda worked him that way. But obviously, look, Dusty May coached the guy at Michigan, won a national championship with him. But, honestly, I'm not even sure that Mares Johnson junior was number one on his board as far as players on that roster. Yeah. I don't I don't I I I'm I'm not sure. I don't know either way. But again, I just I don't think he was upset about the fact that they drafted one of his guys. But I I I think it's a reach to say that this was the coach's pick. This was Masaia Jiri's pick and then you bring and and Mike Schmidt's pick. He brings in Mike Schmidt's who, you know, was a former colleague of mine at ESPN. Right. ESPN to go to Portland as the assistant GM, but he came up as a draft guy. Yeah. You know? And he is a GM, and I don't mean to sell him short because we haven't even mentioned him yet. Yeah. He's a general manager, but it's one of these situations where he's the general manager, obviously, besides the the final say in terms of basketball. But Mike Schmidt is a is a draft guy first and foremost. So again, they're talking with Dusty May, but I just I cannot imagine you're bringing in a guy who has not spent a second in the NBA and and saying that, hey, this is, by the way, also the one draft pick to bars that we're gonna control over the next five years, it's yours. Pretty important pick for the Mavericks. Pretty important pick. It will hurt to miss on this if they do. Yeah. How big of a surprise was Dusty May for you? Not a massive surprise because it was apparent pretty early on. While they interviewed a bunch of people. They're really kinda honed in on John Shire and Dusty May. John Shire obviously being the Duke coach, coach Cooper Flagg in college. I am not fully certain whether it was John Shire's decision to turn down the Mavericks or if the Mavericks decided that Dusty May was their guy. You know? I I I don't know that. You know, clearly Cooper Flagg has a strong relationship with one and is is, you know, it's a fresh relationship with the other. And, you know, the the people at Duke definitely want you to believe that John Shire could have had this job and turned it down. Yeah. But I'm not certain that Dusty May wasn't just their their top pick to start off with. What's your take on him so far? Have you been around him any at all I haven't really gotten to know him yet. You know, he had hip surgery this summer. I haven't been in town a whole lot. You know, so I'll be getting to know him kinda as we go. Some brief interactions, and then, obviously, I I know a lot of people who do know him. Everybody who knows him loves the guy. And it is the thing you hear about him, a lot is obviously there's there's the creativity, the ability to adapt to the players that he has on the roster, but really the thing that you hear the most raving about and positive feedback about is his ability to develop relationships with players, which, you know, obviously, it's gonna be pretty critical. It matters. Yeah. But especially with a a you know, your job is to develop a potential perennial MVP candidate who is 19 years old. Mhmm. And a lot of young guys around him. You know, and a and a guy like, for example, like Zachary Resasha, who talk about a tough spot. You're the number one pick between Victor Wimena and Cooper Flagg. I and and and, you know, obviously, he's not at that level. If he was at that level, he wouldn't be in Dallas now. The Hawks wouldn't let him go after a couple years. But, you know, it's a it's a young kid. There's some talent there, you know, to see what can you develop the kind of relationship where you can squeeze the most out of out of that kind of guys Yeah. As well as Cooper Flagg, who obviously there are sky high expectations, and then, you know, on down the roster. And it seems like with Dusty that obviously he can now focus exclusively on coaching, not having to recruit, not having to deal with the NIL and all that stuff. Outside People of are pretty excited about that. Yeah, of the Clippers, NIL is not really a thing in the NBA. Well played. For them, it's a big thing. Where do you see that story going? I think it's pretty clear that the NBA wants if they're gonna get in a legal battle with Steve Ballmer, which it will be if it's not a favorable ruling for the Clippers, The NBA damn sure better have all their ducks in a row because that guy has some some resources. But I don't know, man. Like Kawhi Leonard's not even supposed to be on the Clippers. He's supposed to be heading back to Toronto. Yeah. This thing's on hold. But hasn't he just basically been in Toronto? Yeah. He he's operating as if he's going to be on the Raptors. The Raptors obviously want to get the deal done. I think, you know, like a question I've asked is what what's the threshold for the Raptors to say, okay, we're not doing this. Like, let's say hypothetically and then because I don't know. But let's say hypothetically, Kawhi is suspended for twenty five games. Well, if you're if you're sitting in the Raptors seat, what do you do then? I mean, you I think you try to rework the trade and take back some draft compensation and that type of thing. But like what's the threshold for just saying, okay, hey, forget about it. Brandon Ingram, come on back, we love you. Yeah, what happens with all the guys that were supposed to be traded and just sitting in limbo too? Sitting in limbo. And could they do that? I mean, could they just say, alright, let's undo the whole thing? Yeah. The trade has been agreed on, but it's not been finalized. And everything is fair game until until it's finalized. And there's been a lot of examples of of you know, I mean, it's example I can think of is due to, like, stuff that pops up on the physical, but if trades being reworked and it's usually draft compensation being, either added to or taken away. We haven't seen anything like this. No. This is a This is new ground. This is a completely different deal than we've seen because you're talking about the eligibility of a potentially of a player. I mean, like, the worst case scenario is the NBA says the contract's null and void from here on out, and that just blows the trade up. I'd I'd be surprised by that, but they're taking their sweet time. And it's gone from, hey, we need to have a a conclusion pretty soon, which is what Adam Silver said at the finals to to, you know, we'll we'll finish it up at some point. Well, training camp's a little like I said, it's a little over a month away. So that's I would say that's kind of a deadline. It seems like the more stuff comes out on this story, the more of a hot potato it becomes. I mean, plausible deniability is really being stretched. Yes. Yeah. Well, I guess hilarious pretty much seeing about every week or so, Pablo Torre tweeting either an eyes emoji or a hamburger, and then an hour later dropping another nuke essentially with some other revelation on this story. He's pretty clearly slow dripping it, where it seems like every time someone associated with the NBA or the Clippers or whatever kinda tries to push back a little, he's like, nope. This is another thing. Yeah. I mean Maybe that's how I'm just reading it as a fan. I don't know if he's slow playing it or he's, you know Just uncovering more. Or there's just things where like he Stuff like this, can't be 95% right. Right. You know? Like if you're sitting in Pablo's seat and and Pablo, you know, he's done a great job of like getting actual documentation, you know? And and so and letting you draw your own conclusion. It's hard to draw any conclusion but one though in a lot of these cases. I watched that guy for the first time last night. And man, I was just amazed by him. He's a pretty damn good journalist. Yeah. Tim might think differently. No, Pablo's awesome. I figured you could see what would've worked with him and Yeah. I a little bit maybe. My conversations with Pablo have basically been passing each other on an elevator. But smart dude, know, he'll be the first to tell you. Yeah. Mean I noticed him. Went to Harvard and you know, he's Nice. Different era. He's he's doing his thing with the with the Clippers. That's for sure. He is doing his thing with the Clippers. Mhmm. Alright. So let's talk a little bit more about the new front office that we have. When it comes to operating and basketball, Masai, Mike Schmitz, tell us a little bit about the about how it works with those guys. What kind of game do you think they're looking to play? What what do they wanna see out of the team on the floor? I mean Other than I think it's a long game, obviously. And, like, do you wanna be as competitive as possible right now? Yes. But the Mavericks clearly aren't going to be contenders in year one, of this new regime. So far, everything they've done has been very patient. You know, they didn't take any home run swings this summer. Obviously, were involved in a lot of trade discussions, for their players, but nothing really materialized outside of them squeezing every little ounce they could out of out of the AD trade Mhmm. In terms of exceptions, you know, like bringing in Santi Aldama, bringing in Marcus Sasser. You know? And they brought in I I would say they they hit some singles this summer. They hit some singles this summer. Obviously, to be able to position yourself to really be relevant in terms of like playoff races and stuff, like they're gonna need some extra base hits at some point. You know, Cooper Flag is gonna need a long term running mate at some point. How, who, when? I I I don't know all those things. It it's their job to explore every avenue and, you know, somehow, someway What do you think they need most? I again, I I don't I don't necessarily think like, I don't think it's a position or I don't think it's a certain style. I just think they need another star. Okay. They need another star who can be his long term running mate. And look, Kyrie Irving King might he might come back and play at an all NBA level again right away. He might who knows? Maybe he picks up where he left off in March '24 where he was definitely playing at that level. But Kyrie's in his mid thirties, Koopa Flags in his teens. Mhmm. You know, like, I think we understand, like, timeline wise, Kyrie can do a lot of great things for the Mavericks. But in terms of when they're really when Cooper Flag's really ready to be Yeah. The, you know, the the Haas on a title contender, like Kyrie's not gonna be part of that. For that, Kyrie's just kind of a placeholder. Yeah. Right. And a placeholder, you know, I think like, you know, there's value in in his presence in the locker room, his voice in the locker room, all those kind of things. But yeah. And so in a sense, it's it's very similar to, you know, when it was apparent very early in Luca's rookie year like, oh, this guy's gonna be one of those dudes. Yeah. Like, he's not just gonna be good. Like, he's gonna be, you know, potential MVP type of player. You know Cooper Flagg is that type of player. Now how do you get the costar to go along with him? And and in the Luca case, they took a huge swing his rookie year on Porzingis, which was a I'll remind you, that was a very popular trade when they made it. Oh, yes. You know? And it didn't it didn't work. Fit, you know, some of the personality clashes, primarily just durability with Porzingis, you know, all kinds of things went wrong. They didn't realize what they had with Javen Brunson. I mean, that's obvious. And then, you know, they got Kyrie, and they went to the finals, and then they decided, Why do why why do we wanna keep the guy who was the best player on a on a Western Conference championship team? So I don't think there'll ever be any question about why do why do we wanna keep Cooper Flagg. Yeah. That should be the easiest part. The question is, how do you get a guy alongside him who, on a long term basis, gets you a real chance? Has Kyrie surprised you any since he's been here? Yeah. Listen. I did not know Kyrie at all before he got here. Like, you know, I primarily am in the Western Conference. He spent his career up to that point, in the East. And like, I'd heard the same things everybody else heard. I saw the same things everybody else saw when they made the trade. I was like, oh, boy. You know? Yeah. I'm just expecting chaos. And Mhmm. And, you know, he is That's the way I saw it too. Yeah. And and since the day that Kyrie arrived in Dallas, like, he's been not not only the performance on the floor, everybody knew the talent. Like, you you don't have to be a basketball expert to understand, oh my god, this guy's incredibly skilled. But just in terms of, you know, like I said, that presence in the locker room, the leadership on the floor, the voice, the way that the these young players, a lot of these young players grew up loving Kyrie. And his willingness and eagerness to to work with the young players, take him under his wing, to, you know, to do stuff that that you don't even necessarily see. But, like, even last year, he didn't play a second, but, you know, you'd see after practice, he'd be going one on one against a coach and he'd take a rep and Cooper Fagg would be right behind him taking a rep. You know? So, like, he made it a priority even last year when he wasn't playing to try to work with Cooper and and really try to develop that relationship. And, you know, Kyrie, in a lot of ways for Luca, was like a veteran version and a polished version of Jaylen Brunson. And I'm I'm not necessarily talking about I'm not necessarily talking about like the the fit on the floor and the way they compliment him. I'm talking about like, Luca's obviously a very hot you know, he runs hot and cold. Mhmm. You know, he's got a an erratic demeanor, I think is is a fair way to put it. And, you know, his his pot can boil over at times. And I think you need a very even keel, you know, voice and leader alongside him to really and I I think Austin Reeves is kinda that same type of of personality from the Lakers now, actually. But Kyrie was absolutely that. And, you know, there were lot of times where I think just having Kyrie's voice and presence really helped Luka, you know, especially during that playoff run. Yeah. I knew he was a great player, but I did not expect that we were getting the adult in the room here too. Yeah. And Kyrie, I'm not a psychologist. I got to see in a community college psychology course, but you know, he'll be the first to tell you how much like he he's he's been in therapy. And like the guy has had a lot of trauma in his life. Yeah. Now look, the NBA life is pretty good, but there's also a spotlight. And like this guy had to grow up under immense pressure in a spotlight. And, you know, then you bring LeBron there, the spotlight shines even brighter. But, you know, you talk about, like, losing his mother at a very young age and, you know, spending most of his life completely separated from, you know, a big part of his heritage and his culture. You know, his mother was Native American, and kinda reconnecting with that as an adult. And, you know, I and, like, I don't wanna necessarily speak for him, but like obviously he said some stuff in Brooklyn that was not the right thing to say. And then I think there was a stubbornness to him at the time where there's such harsh pushback that he kept digging a deeper and deeper hole. But I think his heart was like he was trying to do the right thing and, you know, like, stick up for his people. Yeah. And it just went amazingly wrong. I just know this. I was expecting all kinds of chaos when he arrived because that's looking at him from afar, that's all I've associated him with. Yep. And he's been the absolute voice of reason. There has been a ton of chaos and he's been responsible for none of it. Yeah. And he is but like you talk about like after the Luka trade, when it I'm not kidding. I've never maybe you have. I have never seen a worse, like, three month span of PR. Starting with the decision to dump the guy in the middle of the night, and just on and on and on and on. Oh, yeah. I mean, we're talking about just Every move was a bad move. I mean, and and you're right. He was the like the one rational voice Yes. During that time. And remember, it wasn't it wasn't like immediate roses and daffodils when he got to Dallas. Mhmm. He got here and that team didn't make the playoffs. Yeah. You know? There was a lot of people who weren't around the team on a day to day basis, but maybe had platforms, whether it's social media or TV or podcast, whatever, who said, Kyrie arrived. The Mavericks stunk it up and didn't make the playoffs. What, you know, obviously cause and effect when it that couldn't have been further from the truth. No. I mean, there was, you know, his health at the time. There was some health stuff where he wasn't on the floor, and there was the health stuff for Luke, but that like, Kyrie was this has been an even keeled dude the entire time he was here despite the fact that he was getting dumped on pretty heavily externally in his first few months with the franchise. And by the way, that was at a time where he wasn't sure if he was gonna be in Dallas long term. Remember he was a free agent. Right. And I tell you, one of the sliding doors moments is what if the Lakers really made a run at them? You know, they couldn't have gotten to the same number the Mavericks ended up getting to, but the Lakers could have like, the Mavericks ended up paying them like 40 ish a year. The Lakers could have gotten to 30 plus. The Lakers decided, nah, We just went to the to to the West Finals. Let's keep D'Angelo Russell and, like, Jared Vanderbilt or whatever it was. What if they'd have made a run out of him? Who knows? Yeah. Who does know? This is the great Tim McMahon with us. And got a couple of other things that I wanna talk to you about, including what seems to be the biggest story out there in the NBA these days. We'll get to that more in just a second, but you can kick back because right now for me, it is time for the dreaded and feared mid show read. Let me ask you this. Is your fantasy football draft losing its allure and not living up to the fantasy part of it? How about we change things up this year? Let Dudley Sports Grill host your draft party. Get your own reserved space in the lounge, a selection of food and beverages, and connect your laptop to your own TV to track your board. Call and order your package today. Now I could tell you. I know what I'm talking about here because we did that very thing here last week. So Dudley Dudley's treated us right. 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All of that at door Dudley Sports Grill, the one right around the corner here in Henderson, or the run, the one in Rockwall. Dudley's, a cool, comfortable place. Shoopee and I both go there a lot. We dig it. We bet you will too. It's pretty awesome, Shoopee. Pretty awesome, Shoopee. Alright. We got the great Tim McMahon with us. You see him on ESPN. You read his stuff on espn.com. What is your exact title these days? Are you like an insider? I am a a an NBA senior writer. Okay. Which means I'm old, and I've been there for a while. Well, that's not a terrible place to be. I know. Doing what you love, man. Yeah. I just you know, I've been there. This is heading to year 17. I need to squeeze about 15 more. Wow. 17. Yeah. And how long were you in at the morning news? Morning news was six years and a few years the old Denton Record Chronicle before that. Wow. You're a lifer. I'm getting old, man. Don't talk to me about that. Alright. I wanna get into what seems to be the biggest basketball story out there these days that has nothing whatsoever to do with basketball, yet you can't get away from this thing. And that is the sale of the mighty Los Angeles Lakers. Now this is a story that came up from out of the blue, it seems. Seems like nobody was you were you was there any rubbing on your end? The only thing that was not out of the blue is, you know, it had been reported that old Mark Walter was under some federal investigation for, you know, I'm not smart enough to tell you exactly what he's being investigated for, but doing some shady stuff with a whole lot of money is the the gist of that. That's but, yes, it was a when Ramona Shelburne reported it, it was like, woah. Especially, mean, the guy who owned the team, the most glamorous team in the league and Yeah. Up there with the Cowboys and the Yankees is the most glamorous franchise in all of sports. He owned them for less than a year. I mean. That's crazy. I mean, when he bought it, I thought he would be the owner of the Lakers until he couldn't anymore and then hand it off to his kids or and it'd be just kinda like the bus scene all over again. Yeah. The only difference is the bus was a mom and pop type shop. Was a family business. And then this is a guy who I mean, there's there's money coming from all kinds of different Oh, yeah. All kinds of different places, countries, people, you know Mhmm. All all that good stuff. But it's crazy when you see the most expensive franchise sales in sports history, and the Lakers are one and two on that list. Wow. That's incredible. And I guess there was there any kind of rumbling around that that they might be headed some other way other than the buses? And what about Genie? Genie seems to be wanting to get in the big middle of this. I mean, Genie needs to go on. You know, that's just a simple fact of the matter. So the big win for Jeanie was she wanted to cash in and keep the governor gig. Yeah. Which she was able to get that in writing that she was gonna do that for five years under Mark Walter. And then, I mean, this is like succession NBA style. Yeah. Right? She immediately shanked all her siblings in the back. Like, sales done. You're fired. You're fired. You're fired. Well, now these siblings say, okay, there's a little tag along clause here that if the franchise sold again, you know, we could cash in at that valuation. And, hey, I'm fired. I'm not part of the franchise. I'm fired. I'm not part of the franchise. I'm fired. It's five on one. Yeah. We would all like to get another 300 some odd million dollars out of this. And since we're not part of a franchise that we were hoping to remain part of. And we'll see. Yeah. I've spent eight years in college, did not get a law degree. Not smart enough to tell you how to play out in court, but I'm telling you, there there's gonna be a battle because they're claiming that there's, you know, something in the trust that gives her the ultimate power and blah blah blah. But of course they wanna the siblings wanna cash out. Yeah. Like, you you know, you took take great, glee in shanking them as soon as you could. So now it's like, oh, we can get even richer and shank you. Sounds good to us. But, I am Josh Kushner, who's gonna be the primary owner, the the biggest money guy in this in this new group. If I'm Bob Iger, who's gonna be the day to day ownership presence, my former boss, way up high as the former Disney CEO. If I'm them, I'm looking at this thing, why the hell do we want Jeanie Buss involved in this? It's nothing but drama. And like, it's it's not like she did some phenomenal job of running the franchise. They won one championship during her time, and that was because nothing she did. I mean, the glitz and glamour of LA, the prestige of the franchise, LeBron said, I wanna go play there. And then Rich Paul said, I wanna pair Anthony Davis with him. Didn't take any great management to make that happen. Yeah. I mean, it seems like all she ever did was sit back and wait for stuff like that to fall her way. Yeah. Wait for LeBron or or Rich Paul or whoever to tell her what they wanted to do. Yeah. There's a there there's definitely a lot of that. And then they got gifted Luca. You know? Yeah. Which that again, that took absolutely no skill. The only skill that that took was Palinka and Jeanie Buss keeping their mouth shut and not letting it leak, which, you know, Nico thanked him, and I'm thinking like, why the hell would they let that leak? They didn't want other bidders in this thing. God. Oh god. That still brings up a whole another scene. I It mean still doesn't feel real. No. I mean, it it that was the most surreal night of my career. That was the most surreal few months of my career. What was that night like for you? There's certainly not a lot of sleep. Not a lot of sleep. Honestly, the whole few months afterwards was very productive for me professionally and not a whole lot of fun personally. I mean, hell, I was getting blamed by some idiots for the trade. Like I was conspiring with Nico to run the guy out of town. I'm like, there there it takes a certain level of stupidity combined with mob mentality to come up with that kind of a conspiracy theory, but the the Internet generates a lot of both. Right. But again, it was just a it was a weird weird just scene. And it was like hey. I talked about the just continuation of the most miserable PR run I've ever witnessed personally, which ain't bad for my business if we're being if we're being real about it. I mean, there's a Sure. There was a whole lot of shit to get to the bottom of during that stretch. You guys thrive on stuff like that. Listen, drama does pay some bills. Yep. It does. Give it and take it away. I I don't create drama despite what some people might believe. I do pride myself on being able to to get to the bottom of when it's in front of my face. But, you know, sometimes being able to maybe not not, you know, take it and really run with it, but just inch it a little further along down the road, that's not such a bad thing if you can do it. Drama that is, I mean. Pablo. Yeah. Pablo's Yeah. Pablo's got a Pulitzer That's Prize out of right. He's made a career out of it. Do you recall where you were? Yes. I was in a Cleveland hotel room and it was I think it was like 12:15 or so eastern time. So a little bit after midnight. And like, I'll never forget that that night. I was coming from San Francisco. The Warriors had three games in four nights and they're like three western conference teams. So it was like a stop for me to be able to go hit like, you know, a a few different teams. Then I had planned, obviously, not knowing anything about the the trade being in the works. I had planned to join the Mavericks in Cleveland. You know, just a spot there. It was before the trade deadline, you know, be around them at that time. And Mhmm. Good thing that I was because there was no way, I guess, you could maybe book a trip middle of the night, catch a first flight out, and and get there for what was an afternoon game. But, yeah, it was 12:15. I'd traveled from San Francisco to Cleveland that day, which is, you know, it's a long trip. And got to the hotels. I was just gotten in bed. And then that thing hit, and I was like, hey, ain't gonna be any sleep tonight. And so obviously, I'm reaching out to people. Nico called me back. Did did you see it on your phone first? Yeah. I saw it on my phone first. Saw it on my phone first. And then What what did you do when you saw it the first time you read it? Did you just put your phone down and just go, no. Honestly, so the first thing I do was check to make sure it's it's actually Shyam's Twitter The fact that he had to say, yes, this is real. Yeah. The next This scours me. The next thing I do is reread the tweet. And I'm like, where's the other pics? You know, like where's the rest of the stuff? And then the, you know, the third thing that I do, I I honestly took a took a beat just to kinda let it sink in. I had two thoughts. The first was, I can't believe Nico really fucking did it. I can't believe he really did it. Because I knew, like, he was I knew there was a lot of tension and, like, Nico was pissed at Luca and, you know, thought he was out of shape and all the stuff that Yeah. You know, I reported on at the time. I just I couldn't believe that they dumped the guy who was entering his prime, who is that talented and that proven. Like, this wasn't like, well, he could had just led you to the finals. Yes. In what I believe was his fifth straight first team all NBA season. Like, you weren't wondering if you could become one of the best players in league. He was without question one of best players in the league. And so it that was just like, I can't believe he did it. And then what the hell am I gonna do with this book that was already that was already printed but not yet published? So and and then obviously, then you get to, okay, we'll figure that stuff out in a little bit. I gotta, you know, calls, texts, etcetera, and contribute to the reporting of what you instantly know is going to be one of the one of the, if not the biggest story of my career. Were you surprised at the way the Mavericks fan base reacted to it? Because I I've never seen anything like that. That that did not surprise me. One, obviously, he was he was beloved here. And and two, like, listen. Again, it was like it it was not a trade that could be rationally explained. It just wasn't. No. You know? Like, the simple fact of the matter is you you dumped the guy purportedly because you believed he's gonna break down. For a guy who breaks down a lot. Yeah. You know, and with very limited upside. And then like every time Nico, like every word of that press con they weren't even press conference. Every word of his little six minute sitting on JKidd's pregame availability the next afternoon made it worse. And when he said the three to four year timeline, and it's just like buddy, again I laid out earlier all the picks they gave up as they're building around Luca. Well three to four years gets you right until there's no picks. Like what so what like what are you doing? And so it was a combination of the love for Luka, the fact they just were fresh off a finals run, and it just being a completely inexplicable trade. And then honestly, it's not just the love for Luca, but Luca really was in a lot of ways an extension of Dirk. You know? Yeah. And like you saw, like some of the signs that that people held up, like, you know, Luke or Dirk passed the torch and Nico blew it out, you know, stuff like that. But even in Dirk's mind, Luca was an extension to him. Like, Dirk had blessed Luca as his worthy successor. You know? Trust me, the way that Mavericks fans felt about the trade was the way that Dirk felt about the trade. I mean, he's talked about I forgot where he was vacationing, but, you know, he was in some tropical island somewhere and just went to the hotel room for an hour and is just like trying to collect his thoughts and, like, process the whole thing because he was as blindsided as anybody by it and just, you know, he couldn't understand it. You know, Cuban Cuban Cubans listen. Cuban running basketball operations screwed up a lot of things, and I never ever believed that the Mavericks would be better off with Mark Cuban running basketball operations until that moment. Because there ain't no way in hell. If if if Cuba was trading was ever gonna trade Luca, it was gonna be because it reached a point where Luca said, I can't win here. I gotta go. Get me out of here. Yeah. And that was always the fear. That was the fear. Yeah. And then they got it to a point where like and then Nico tried to say, well, we didn't know if he was gonna sign the extension bullshit. You knew he they didn't you didn't wanna give him that extension. And that was I mean, of the many things you couldn't explain, it's like, dude, if you want to trade him, what you do is you sign him to that extension, and then you gotta wait another year. Who knows? Maybe you go back to the finals. Maybe cooler heads prevail. If you really feel like you wanna trade him at that point, you don't have to be all secret for value. Yeah. I mean, yeah. But at real high speed At least you buy yourself a little time there, you know? Yes. And when if he's got a long term extension, he doesn't necessarily get to dictate where he goes. He don't have to worry about it being public knowledge. But anyways, they so yeah. I there's a lot of things going on there. Then, you know, it's like I had to jump on sports and we had to do a podcast and I'm still kinda processing all this stuff. And And I think I slept like forty five minutes that night and not much more. Most chaotic night of your professional life? Most chaotic night of my professional life. Most chaotic couple weeks of my professional life. Most chaotic few months of my professional life. So I don't know if I've ever if I've ever told this one, publicly. But so all weekend, I always take my wife, Akash, and Marriott Points and and airline miles, and we always go on some kind of trip. Yep. And, you know, a lot of times we'll to some tropical island. And so we went to Saint Martin, you know, little island in the Caribbean. Have a great little weekend. I put up a triple double. We were there three nights. I think I had double figure beers each night. And so, you know, I I mentioned this book that I was writing. And so, kind of the thing we came up with is, hey, I'm gonna write a final chapter on this trade. You know, they put it out. There's like a there was like a PDF of it that if you bought the book, you could you could get the PDF or whatever. Then it was in like the e book and it's in the paperback edition that came out later. But I had to I had to get out quick. You know, the trade was made and the the book was publishing six weeks later. Yeah. And so I told him, okay. I can get I can get this turned around in in two weeks, which so my deadline was was Valentine's Day, which is, you know, the first day of of the all star break. And, you know, obviously, all kinds of cast going on. So I stay up until four in the morning to polish that thing off before we got a 6AM flight. You know, hit send, grab my bag, grab my wife, off we go. And did the editing process while I'm on the flight. And my wife is reading this on the flight, reading that final chapter, and she's like, oh, this is harsh on Nico. This is tough. I'm like, listen. I can either be honest or I can just dump it all on Luke. It's not like necessarily like flowery on Luke either, but like in it. It was, you know, I I can't like sugarcoat Nico's side of it. And so anyway, have a great weekend. Everything runs on island time there. Right? So we get to the airport, man, to to check her bag is taking forever. Thirty minute wait, get to the front of the line. You know, I'm I'm not a very patient guy, so I'm a little little grumpy at this point. And then, this airline employee cuts the line that's like a couple of Nike bags and a Jordan bag. To cut the line, I'm like at the front line. And I'm, you know, cussing up a storm. And my wife says, I think Nico's behind us. No. There's Nico with his wife and daughters. They were and his bags were cutting the line. And so Wow. You know, it's awkward. Hey. Well, I I actually the first thing I said was I came all this way to get away from you. And and so we, know, makes, you know, make small talk and, you know, introducing my wife. He introduced me to his daughters and wife, etcetera, etcetera. And we're on the same plane as a connection to Miami. And and, you know, as as we're kinda sitting a part waiting to board my arms like, man, like I feel so bad. Like, his wife and his daughter and you just killed him and I'm like, listen, that's, you know, that's the business. So we board and Nico's sitting there in first class, alone. Oh, yeah? Wife and daughter daughters are are are in coach. What? And so we board. We get back to, I call it white trash first class, the exit row. And my wife goes, did you see that? You weren't fucking harsh enough. Boy, there's a large number of Mavericks fans that would have echoed that sentiment. Well, and the funny thing is my fear because remember at the time, like, I am getting just roasted by Mavericks fans. Like, Nico's public enemy number one, but I ain't too far down the list. And I'm like, dude, if I get off a flight at DFW that Nico's on, like, people are gonna like, what if somebody's like takes a picture and like, people think we went vacationing together or something. Like, I'm Fortunately, he was on a different flight back home, but I'm sitting there freaking out like, oh, are you serious? Anyways, but yeah, it was quite a coincidence and and and and quite a scene. Glad you weren't both walking off the plane with zinc on your noses and stuff. Yeah. That's good. One more thing here. Don Nelson. Thoughts on him? So I did not know Nelly that well. Every time I talked to the guy, you know, like you couldn't help but talk to Nelly and if you're unless you were Cuban. Come away with like a, you know, just giggling and smiling and but I didn't I've just missed the Nelly era. Like, I kinda I was covering high schools for the Mavericks, you know, in his last few years, you know, coaching and and and being GM. So I like, I filled in for a game here or there, but I didn't really know Nelly. Obviously, knew Donnie well. Actually, and I I did cover because it was such a, you know, huge story the night that Nelly resigned. I covered I wrote the gamer for the Dallas Morning News because they were like, somebody, you know, somebody's gotta write the game story. So here, let's bring this kid out of high school so Seth Cohen, Dee Moore, and those guys could could focus on on the real story. So, again, I I didn't know Nelly well. You know, made a few few times where I'm working like Dirk stuff, late in Dirk's careers, where I'd make the call to to him in Hawaii and he'd be stoned out of his mind telling great stories. You know, those are always fun conversations. But, you know, there's a few things that that popped to mind. One, Nelly is responsible for an NBA rule. There's a rule that coaches cannot bring a beer to the press conference postgame. That is a that's the Nelly rule. That's a Nelly thing? That's the Nelly rule. He's responsible for that rule. But I like you can't talk like Mike Dantoni and Don Nelson, to me, are the two coaches that are most responsible for the way that that NBA basketball is played now. You know? Just in terms of like the the the pace and the and the, you know, like, the pace and space era, the the the threes. And, like, Nelly pioneered the point forward idea. Yeah. You know, when you talk about Marcus Johnson, who, by the way, he should be in the Hall of Fame too. And Paul Pressy, those team, he pioneered small ball. You know, all these things were Nelly ideas. Like, he pioneered the idea that, no, it's okay for seven footers to bomb away from three point range. You know? And you've heard Dirk say it probably a 100 times. His career probably would have been completely different. Oh, yeah. If Yeah. Almost maybe any other coach would have been coaching him when he came into the league. Yeah. You know, like Dirk had at the post game midway through his career, but he came in the league as a essentially, a seven foot wing player, and Nelly was, like, absolutely all about it. Yeah. And so, you know, Nelly for a little while was the wing that's coached in NBA history. Obviously, that record got broken. He never got to the top of the mountain in terms of a of a championship, but you talk about a guy who was responsible for completely revolutionizing the way the basketball is played. Again, he him and D'Antoni to me are are the two guys at the at the top of that list. In addition to the fact that, you know, I don't think people realize he was a hell of a player. Yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. He was a he was a key guy, the Celtics dynasty back in the day. He was. I remember that well. Thing I remember most about him though is he came along at a time when there was one thing the Mavericks franchise really needed, and that was something or somebody Mhmm. To make it fun again. Oh, yeah. And he did that. Yeah. And, you know, I grew up here. And so, like, the nineties were just it was just a basketball abyss. Like, you you know, the the the mavericks were as irrelevant as a pro sports franchise could possibly be. And like you said, he brought life. He brought interest and intrigue and personality. Yeah. And, you know, and then he brought along with Donnie, Dirk and Steve Nash, and off they went from there. Heck of a guy. Stay hard, Nelly. We miss you, man. Tim, you are great. I appreciate that. Likewise, sir. Well, thank you for doing this once again. It's always great to have you on, and ma'am, I hope we can do it again sometime. Absolutely. It's always a pleasure. Alright. The great Tim McMahon there. One more ESPN. You see him on TV. You read him on espn.com. He is everywhere, and he's got a great basketball mind. Alright. That is YDC for today. Now before we go away, we must thank you as we always do for watching. We must encourage you to get us out there on your social medium. And if I may, if everybody will indulge me, I would like to advise everybody of the Petty Theft Show coming up Saturday night at Denton Seminole Music Venue, Dan Silverleaf, 09:00 downbeat. Go to dansilverleaf.com for tickets, and we will see you there. But as for here, just one more word. That word is bye. Alright. I'm gonna go take your pants off. You're Dark Companion is a stolen water media presentation.