Latest / The You Project / #1871 The Science & Business Of Coaching - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#1871 The Science & Business Of Coaching - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi, Bobby Craig, I secretly do admire your radio voice.
0:06
Speaker 1: I was like, how does he do that radio voice?
0:08
Speaker 1: Because whenever I try to do a radio voice kind
0:11
Speaker 1: of thing, like all of my producers and videographers are like,
0:14
Speaker 1: you sound creepishly breathy. It's like, what do you do breathy?
0:19
Speaker 1: You just get very breathy, like like you just like
0:22
Speaker 1: you just ran and like you exceeded your aerobic capacity
0:27
Speaker 1: and then you dragged yourself into the studio to like
0:29
Speaker 1: do a video.
0:31
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's funny, a good book. I don't
0:34
Speaker 2: feel like I have a radio voice, but I did
0:36
Speaker 2: work in radio. But but maybe yeah, but also my
0:41
Speaker 2: I think your voice and my voice are pretty much
0:44
Speaker 2: the same on and off like on a podcast off podcast,
0:49
Speaker 2: Like if people met you out and about if our
0:51
Speaker 2: listeners met you at the cafe and had a chat
0:53
Speaker 2: with you, they wouldn't say you kind of sound like Bobby,
0:56
Speaker 2: but a bit like you're the same, you know, But oh, I.
0:59
Speaker 1: Thought you were saying that me and you sound alike.
1:01
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I was mistaken for crack
1:04
Speaker 1: opera until they see my face.
1:06
Speaker 2: No, But but you're right in that some people definitely
1:08
Speaker 2: have an on air voice which is very different to
1:10
Speaker 2: their real life voice.
1:12
Speaker 1: You just have a natural radiotape persona like you have
1:17
Speaker 1: this this like keydance, this inflection to you, it's like,
1:20
Speaker 1: all right, to next.
1:22
Speaker 2: Episode I do I do feel compelled to do so.
1:25
Speaker 2: In radio, you always do like what's you know? Station ID?
1:29
Speaker 2: So it's halfway through a thing, like before I would
1:32
Speaker 2: ask you another question, like you're listening to the You Project.
1:35
Speaker 2: We're chatting with Bobby Capuccio, so mate, tell me right.
1:38
Speaker 2: So in the middle of that kind of there's a link,
1:41
Speaker 2: there's a segue between sentences where you know, I'll go
1:46
Speaker 2: like right now, we'll go it's eleven thirty three. You're
1:48
Speaker 2: listening to the You Project, Bobby tell me about So
1:51
Speaker 2: there's these little fillers in the in the middle that
1:54
Speaker 2: always happened in radio that you just get so used to,
1:58
Speaker 2: Like you said that cat, it's in radio where you're
2:01
Speaker 2: telling people quite often, especially if it's live radio, what
2:05
Speaker 2: the temperature is, what the time is, what station they're
2:08
Speaker 2: listening to, who we're chatting with, and what's coming up next.
2:12
Speaker 2: But you do that on autopilot, but on a podcast
2:16
Speaker 2: you don't do any of that, Like, I don't ever
2:18
Speaker 2: break mid mid kind of thing and say, listening to
2:22
Speaker 2: the new project, we're chatting with Bobby. He's on every week,
2:24
Speaker 2: he's a regular. You can hear him here blah blah
2:27
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and now back to you. We don't
2:29
Speaker 2: do that. But I like that. I like the non
2:32
Speaker 2: radio kind of organicness of just going wherever we want
2:38
Speaker 2: to go in a podcast. I think it's it's the
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Speaker 2: closest thing to a natural, authentic, just real world conversation
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Speaker 2: that happens to be recorded.
2:52
Speaker 1: Yeah that I doubt that many of your listeners around
2:55
Speaker 1: the world are going, oh, this is really great, gas.
2:57
Speaker 1: I love the conversation, but I want to what the
3:00
Speaker 1: temperature is in Melbourne. It's like that is that funny?
3:06
Speaker 2: That is so fucking funny. And I wonder, by the way,
3:09
Speaker 2: what's the name of this podcast again?
3:12
Speaker 1: And what what time exactly do they record this? Like
3:16
Speaker 1: why are they leaving all this information out? Yeah, it's
3:20
Speaker 1: a mystery podcast.
3:24
Speaker 2: Stop talking about the meaning of life. Tell me the
3:26
Speaker 2: fucking temperature.
3:28
Speaker 1: Let's get down to brass tax and practicality. Have you
3:32
Speaker 1: watched only murders in the building?
3:34
Speaker 2: No, what is that?
3:35
Speaker 1: Ah, it's it's masterful. It's a Selena Gomez Steve Martin,
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Speaker 1: Martin Short. It is just such. I mean, these people
3:47
Speaker 1: are like Selena Gomez is really impressing me. I don't
3:50
Speaker 1: think I get impressed watching Martin Shorter Steve Martin because
3:54
Speaker 1: my level of expectation is mastery. But she comes right
3:59
Speaker 1: in with the these two legends, and she her performance
4:04
Speaker 1: is just spectacular, the way she integrates her character with
4:07
Speaker 1: their characters. And it's about, you know, they live in
4:09
Speaker 1: a building in Manhattan and there are murders, and they
4:12
Speaker 1: go out and they investigate these murders because, you know whatever,
4:15
Speaker 1: their acting careers have failed and they're old and what
4:17
Speaker 1: else are they gonna do? And they go through all
4:20
Speaker 1: these shenanigans and they make a podcast about it. It's
4:23
Speaker 1: a great show. What is it call only Murders in
4:26
Speaker 1: the Building.
4:28
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this is not very good podcast, crafty Murders
4:33
Speaker 2: in the Building. What's it stream on?
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Speaker 1: Oh shit? What is it on? I forgot?
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Speaker 2: Is it on Netflix? Is it on?
4:41
Speaker 1: I gotta find out? I gotta find out. I'm sure
4:43
Speaker 1: if you google, like google it. Anyone who's listening to
4:46
Speaker 1: this going oh, he's giving me a great show. Doesn't
4:48
Speaker 1: tell me where to find it. It's just like not
4:51
Speaker 1: knowing the time and the temperature all over again with
4:53
Speaker 1: these guys. So if you google it, it'll it'll come up.
4:56
Speaker 1: I'm drawing a blank. I apologize.
4:59
Speaker 2: I I wanted to have a chat today about something
5:03
Speaker 2: that we've touched on, and we kind of bump into
5:05
Speaker 2: this topic. But we've never done a standalone chat about it.
5:09
Speaker 2: So you coach people, I coach people. I don't know
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Speaker 2: if you call yourself a coach officially. I don't really.
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a thing that I do, among many things,
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Speaker 2: but I don't. I don't do a whole lot of
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Speaker 2: one on one coaching these days. But I thought we would.
5:27
Speaker 2: I thought we would talk about if somebody wants a coach. Now,
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Speaker 2: when I say coach, I'm using that as kind of
5:36
Speaker 2: a blanket term for it could be a trainer. It
5:39
Speaker 2: could be an exercise physiologist. It could be a dietitian.
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Speaker 2: It could be a high performance coach. It's going to
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Speaker 2: help you with, you know, any kind of endeavor. It
5:48
Speaker 2: could be what we some people call a life coach.
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Speaker 2: It could be a health coach. It could be a
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Speaker 2: business coach. But the bottom line is if you want
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Speaker 2: to find somebody who's going to help you get you
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Speaker 2: get where you want to go with whatever area of endeavor,
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Speaker 2: anything from doing your masters to building a business and brand,
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Speaker 2: to losing fifty kilos or improving your health overall or
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Speaker 2: whatever it is, relationships, coaches, everything. So I thought we
6:16
Speaker 2: might go through you and I might just wax. And
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Speaker 2: that means you do one, I do one. I've bumped
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Speaker 2: into a million coaches, as have you. You've trained coaches,
6:26
Speaker 2: I've done the same, and you would never say this,
6:30
Speaker 2: but I think you're one of the best coaches on
6:32
Speaker 2: the planet. I have met all the coaches on the planet,
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Speaker 2: but I've met a lot over a long period of time,
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Speaker 2: and you are in rare air. And so I'm interested,
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Speaker 2: and I think our listeners would be interested to know
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Speaker 2: what are the kind of boxes that we might want
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Speaker 2: to be ticked if we're going to work alongside someone. Now,
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Speaker 2: before we kind of go through this checklist of yours
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Speaker 2: and mine, are there any kind of general guidelines that
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Speaker 2: you want to give people as they're thinking about beginning
7:06
Speaker 2: to work with somebody in this kind of capacity. Not
7:11
Speaker 2: so much a specific attribute or quality of the coach,
7:14
Speaker 2: but general advice for people thinking about going down this path, Bobby.
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Speaker 2: Now they're thinking about hiring a coach, Yeah, about using
7:25
Speaker 2: someone in a professional capacity. I'm not talking about getting
7:27
Speaker 2: a training buddy or a walking partner. I'm talking about
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Speaker 2: I'm going to invest some dough in getting someone to
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Speaker 2: work with me in whatever capacity to help me create
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Speaker 2: change on planet met and to move the needle, to
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Speaker 2: create more momentum, and to help me create the outcomes
7:44
Speaker 2: that I've struggled to create so far.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, there's a couple of things in They're like
7:49
Speaker 1: everything I say there are nuanced, there's definitely exceptions. One
7:54
Speaker 1: question that I'd be curious to ask somebody is what
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Speaker 1: do you believe will be different as a result of
8:02
Speaker 1: working with a coach versus figuring stuff out in your
8:05
Speaker 1: own or going through any other medium of continuous learning,
8:09
Speaker 1: self education, self direction. Why a coach exactly? And you
8:14
Speaker 1: don't even need to know the answer for that, because
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Speaker 1: one of the things that's great about coaching is it
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Speaker 1: helps you get clarity about what it is you truly
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Speaker 1: want versus why you want it. I know, in our
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Speaker 1: coaching program, not mentioning it, so no self promotion here.
8:27
Speaker 1: One of the things that I loved about the data
8:29
Speaker 1: we pulled is there's a population of people, a significant
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Speaker 1: percentage of people that come into coaching going I want this,
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Speaker 1: I want to work on this, and kind of like
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Speaker 1: halfway through the process they're like, no, no, no, that's
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Speaker 1: not what I want. I really want this. And that's
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Speaker 1: beautiful because they came in thinking they wanted something, but
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Speaker 1: then when exploring at a much deeper and broader level,
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Speaker 1: they realized, no, I don't want that. What I'm really
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Speaker 1: actor is So if you don't have that answer, that's great.
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Speaker 1: But the answer to that question in your mind kind
9:01
Speaker 1: of frames what you think a coach is, what your
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Speaker 1: expectations of a coach are, and it might actually bring
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Speaker 1: it to the conclusion that you might not need or
9:12
Speaker 1: want a coach. Now, clearly I'm a big advocate of coaching.
9:16
Speaker 1: I think everybody should have a coach, maybe not like
9:19
Speaker 1: continuously always, but you know, on an ongoing basis. But
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Speaker 1: you might want a consultant, you might want a trainer,
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Speaker 1: you might want to mentor an advisor. When you say coach,
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Speaker 1: what's going to be different?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think. I think also like what you,
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Speaker 2: I might have misinterpreted it. But for me, it's like
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Speaker 2: when you start out when we talk about goals, you know,
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Speaker 2: we talk about what you want and why you want it,
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Speaker 2: Like what's your what, what's your why, what's your how,
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Speaker 2: what's your when? You know? So, when are you going
9:51
Speaker 2: to start, what's your timeline, what's your strategy, what's your accountability?
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Speaker 2: But like sometimes you start out with you what you
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Speaker 2: think I really want to I really want to start
10:02
Speaker 2: my own business. I really want to start my own business.
10:05
Speaker 2: And it's not so much the business per se, but
10:08
Speaker 2: rather what you think the business is going to do
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Speaker 2: for your mental and emotional health, for your lifestyle, for
10:14
Speaker 2: your level of joy and pleasure and satisfaction, for your
10:17
Speaker 2: ability to live in line with in alignment with your
10:20
Speaker 2: purpose and values. Where oh I want all that stuff.
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Speaker 2: I just see the business as a vehicle to that stuff,
10:28
Speaker 2: you know. So it's like when I wanted to lose
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Speaker 2: thirty kilos when I was a fat kid. Yes, I
10:33
Speaker 2: wanted to lose thirty kilos, but really for me, the
10:37
Speaker 2: weight loss was a conduit to being socially less invisible
10:42
Speaker 2: and maybe somebody would like me or love me, because
10:45
Speaker 2: now I wasn't what I thought was this unlovable, large lump, right,
10:50
Speaker 2: And what I really wanted was connection and belonging and
10:53
Speaker 2: to be seen and better self, you know. And so
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Speaker 2: I guess that's kind of the thing that I want,
11:00
Speaker 2: is beyond the thing that I want?
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Speaker 1: Kind of it most often is, isn't it? And that's
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Speaker 1: one of the things that coaching, more than any other
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Speaker 1: medium can give you because with coaching, you're the expert,
11:15
Speaker 1: not the coach. So, and here's one thing I'm gonna
11:19
Speaker 1: say that it's kind of a.
11:21
Speaker 2: What is sorry, what does that mean? Unpacked? That you're
11:24
Speaker 2: the okay? So what is so unpacked that?
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Speaker 1: Okay? So, as a coach, they might understand coaching as
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Speaker 1: as a way of being. They might understand some skill
11:39
Speaker 1: sets and strategies and techniques, but the one of the
11:42
Speaker 1: overarching presuppositions in coaching is that you're the expert of
11:45
Speaker 1: your own life. You might not be intimately connected with
11:51
Speaker 1: this level of knowledge, but that's part of what coaching does.
11:54
Speaker 1: It brings you to different vantage points, different proximities with
11:58
Speaker 1: your own thoughts and assumption, your stories, your patterns. You
12:02
Speaker 1: know more about you in the right environment where this
12:06
Speaker 1: knowledge is evoked than anybody else. So it's not your
12:11
Speaker 1: coach that's going to be driving transformation. Your coach is
12:15
Speaker 1: going to be creating the environment and the guidance through
12:18
Speaker 1: which you can be the architect of whatever it is
12:22
Speaker 1: you wish to build in your own life. I think
12:25
Speaker 1: that's really important. You don't always want that. Like, if
12:29
Speaker 1: I want business advice, I might go out and seek
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Speaker 1: a mentor, and this person might have built multiple successful businesses,
12:36
Speaker 1: be way more successful than me. At that point, I'm
12:39
Speaker 1: going to want to do what my mentor does or
12:41
Speaker 1: tells me to do. It doesn't mean I'm not going
12:43
Speaker 1: to ask questions and get feedback, but pretty much, this
12:46
Speaker 1: person holds the knowledge, they hold the skills. I require that,
12:52
Speaker 1: and under this person's tutelage, hopefully I'll learn from them
12:55
Speaker 1: and acquire the skill sets from them that I can
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Speaker 1: use sustainably. Art What are coaching it? Coaching is coaching
13:02
Speaker 1: doesn't put anything into you, It draws things out.
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Speaker 2: H I love it, and I guess I mean, while well,
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Speaker 2: you're the expert and you're the one that ultimately is
13:15
Speaker 2: doing the work and creating the change. Like it's ultimately
13:18
Speaker 2: up to all of us. I think what also is
13:22
Speaker 2: potentially valuable in a coach that you work with over
13:26
Speaker 2: you know, an extended period of time, perhaps whether or
13:28
Speaker 2: not that's three months or three years. I mean I
13:31
Speaker 2: literally had personal training clients for years and years. But
13:34
Speaker 2: one of the things that being understanding somebody well and
13:38
Speaker 2: observing them over time and caring about them and having
13:44
Speaker 2: a bit of a snapshot of how their body and
13:46
Speaker 2: their mind and their emotions work, but also being the
13:50
Speaker 2: observer like that that gives like if you have a coach,
13:54
Speaker 2: that's that they can see things about you that you
13:57
Speaker 2: can't see about you because you've never been on the
14:00
Speaker 2: outside looking in. You've always been the inside looking out right,
14:04
Speaker 2: And so I like that that I can give people,
14:09
Speaker 2: and other people so too, can give me perspective that
14:14
Speaker 2: I can't have, you know, because I've never sat and
14:17
Speaker 2: had a coffee with me. I've never worked on a
14:20
Speaker 2: project with me. I've never been around me when I'm
14:23
Speaker 2: losing my shit or being a selfish prick, right, But
14:26
Speaker 2: other people have, so, you know, And as painful and
14:31
Speaker 2: as uncomfortable as this can be, I think, you know,
14:37
Speaker 2: for me, it's like having a coach is not having
14:41
Speaker 2: a fucking fan club. It's having a coach. It's having
14:45
Speaker 2: somebody that they will support you and encourage you when
14:47
Speaker 2: it's warranted when I think, that's what I do anyway.
14:52
Speaker 2: But also if I think somebody's maybe needs a hard chat,
14:58
Speaker 2: I'll do that as well.
15:00
Speaker 1: You're touching upon something that's really important when it comes
15:04
Speaker 1: to coaching, and I one thing I would have if
15:10
Speaker 1: anybody's really interested in coaching. There are so many resources
15:17
Speaker 1: you could pick up. You could pick up a book,
15:19
Speaker 1: there are audio books that summarize this. Because it's a
15:23
Speaker 1: pretty heavy read. Motivational Interviewing by roll Nick and Miller
15:27
Speaker 1: is a pre eminently useful resource if you want to
15:32
Speaker 1: understand the how and the why behind coaching. And one
15:37
Speaker 1: of the things that they start with in their editions
15:40
Speaker 1: is a writing reflex. This is something to watch out for.
15:44
Speaker 1: A writing reflex is where a coach knows what's wrong
15:48
Speaker 1: with you and they can fix you. That is the
15:52
Speaker 1: surest pathway to frustration and being stagnant in your trying
16:00
Speaker 1: transformation process. You can get it's not a coach that
16:03
Speaker 1: you want to hire. As a matter of fact, it's
16:04
Speaker 1: probably not a coach. Now, when does a coach challenge someone.
16:10
Speaker 1: So one of the things that a coach tries to
16:13
Speaker 1: stay away from is being overly and this is going
16:18
Speaker 1: to sound counterintuitive, overly enthusiastic around praise, and they stay
16:24
Speaker 1: away from criticism, they stay away from opinions, but they
16:29
Speaker 1: do live very tightly in the realm of observations because
16:34
Speaker 1: observations causes reflection. It could cause a shift in perspective,
16:42
Speaker 1: and it could lead to behavior change, which ultimately is
16:46
Speaker 1: one of is one of the objectives with a coach.
16:48
Speaker 1: You are hiring a coach because you are looking to
16:51
Speaker 1: change behaviors. There's a lot of groundwork that needs to
16:54
Speaker 1: be laid, but ultimately you're doing one thing and you're
16:59
Speaker 1: looking to do another thing for a variety of reasons.
17:02
Speaker 1: So when you observe, and this came up recently, somebody says, well, God,
17:07
Speaker 1: I really wanted there's so much to learn, but it's
17:10
Speaker 1: like I have a horrible memory and I can't learn anything.
17:13
Speaker 1: I have such a hard time. You know, coach isn't
17:17
Speaker 1: going to go, wow, that's great that you're really self aware.
17:20
Speaker 1: You know, they might they might say, okay, so this
17:22
Speaker 1: is something that they might reflect like, this is something
17:24
Speaker 1: that you're really frustrated with. On the one hand, you
17:27
Speaker 1: really want to grow in this area because you value
17:30
Speaker 1: YadA YadA YadA based on our conversation. But on the
17:32
Speaker 1: other hand, you feel like you're in this stumbling block
17:36
Speaker 1: and it's like you struggle with the very process of
17:39
Speaker 1: learning that you know is necessary to get there. But
17:43
Speaker 1: a good coach might then say, well, where did you
17:47
Speaker 1: learn that? Or how long? How long have you had
17:50
Speaker 1: this belief system or this storyline? When did it start? Curious?
17:57
Speaker 1: How has this served you thus far? In what way
17:59
Speaker 1: is this? Does it not served you? So that's a challenge,
18:02
Speaker 1: But that's a challenge where the person has to answer that,
18:07
Speaker 1: not you. So whatever they come up with through their
18:11
Speaker 1: own introspection weighs a lot more than anything you can
18:15
Speaker 1: hand to them. So a coach will challenge you. It's
18:18
Speaker 1: the way they do it, and they do it by
18:20
Speaker 1: observation because you're spot on there, Craig, I can't see
18:24
Speaker 1: me objectively. As a matter of fact, I think most
18:28
Speaker 1: of us are much less objective when it comes to
18:30
Speaker 1: ourselves than we would assume, which is one of the
18:34
Speaker 1: reasons why coaching has so much value, what are the
18:37
Speaker 1: observations and the empathy. It's coming from a place of
18:42
Speaker 1: empathy and care. But a coach will challenge you, and
18:45
Speaker 1: I think when they challenge you through in career or
18:49
Speaker 1: I notice when you're in this situation, you do this,
18:53
Speaker 1: you say this, I'm going to ask you a question
18:58
Speaker 1: about that. That's a lot more confronting because the onnus
19:02
Speaker 1: is on the person to do the work, not the coach.
19:06
Speaker 2: See, I love that. I love everything you said. I
19:08
Speaker 2: think I did a gig in Queensland yesterday what is
19:15
Speaker 2: it Thursday now? So Wednesday morning, and we were talking.
19:19
Speaker 2: We talk about I talk about this stuff a lot,
19:21
Speaker 2: so I had I think it was seventy seventy eighty
19:25
Speaker 2: people in a room and we're talking about the difference
19:27
Speaker 2: between you know, the objective practical reality of the situation.
19:31
Speaker 2: We're in eighty people in a room, a bloke on
19:33
Speaker 2: the stage talking, you know, we're hanging out together for
19:36
Speaker 2: three hours, and the objective kind of practical, three dimensional
19:43
Speaker 2: thing that's going on is Craig Harper on the stage
19:46
Speaker 2: saying stuff to a bunch of different people who are
19:48
Speaker 2: all having a different self created experience and trying to
19:51
Speaker 2: understand the difference between what's going on the thing, the stimulus,
19:55
Speaker 2: the thing that's happening in this physical space we call
19:59
Speaker 2: a conference room, and then my experience and story around that,
20:03
Speaker 2: and the way that I'm always you know, interpreting data
20:08
Speaker 2: without even knowing, without even seeing my own filter. So
20:12
Speaker 2: I look at something and rather than thinking, oh, this
20:15
Speaker 2: is my story about that thing, I think that is
20:19
Speaker 2: the thing. Whereas every person in the room has got
20:23
Speaker 2: their own story about what's going on, and I talk
20:26
Speaker 2: about this. I usually walk up to a table of
20:29
Speaker 2: say five or six people, and I do this thing
20:32
Speaker 2: where I say, if this guy right here, what's your name?
20:36
Speaker 2: I ask him his name. I said, if the story
20:38
Speaker 2: in his head right now is that this is fucking boring,
20:43
Speaker 2: Like this is so boring, I go, what's his experience
20:47
Speaker 2: in the moment? And the answer is boredom, Like that's
20:50
Speaker 2: his literal experience. And if this person next to them
20:53
Speaker 2: is thinking this is interesting, this is like Wow, this
20:56
Speaker 2: is really really fascinating. Well what's their actual real literal experience. Well,
21:02
Speaker 2: it's curiosity or it's fascination. And we go through all
21:06
Speaker 2: of this and I go and none of them are wrong,
21:07
Speaker 2: and none of them are right. But I think what
21:11
Speaker 2: you're doing when you're asking people where did that belief
21:14
Speaker 2: come from? Where does this You're starting to help them
21:17
Speaker 2: become conscious about things that we're often unconscious about or unaware,
21:23
Speaker 2: like we're shining a light on something that normally stays
21:27
Speaker 2: in the dark. It's our just our normal process that
21:31
Speaker 2: happens without too much critical thinking. Oh, I've always done
21:36
Speaker 2: it this way. Cool, Okay, that's not good or bad.
21:39
Speaker 2: Why can we talk about and by the way, that
21:42
Speaker 2: normal operating system that you have with food or with money,
21:46
Speaker 2: or with online porn or with your relationship, that normal,
21:50
Speaker 2: that day to day habitual, groundhog day version of that.
21:54
Speaker 2: Is it working? Is it working? And what about it
21:58
Speaker 2: is working? And what about it is maybe not working?
22:01
Speaker 2: Can we talk about that? I think this. I think
22:05
Speaker 2: so much of what we do, with so many of
22:10
Speaker 2: the different jigsaw puzzle pieces to our own life puzzle,
22:15
Speaker 2: we kind of do really without too much critical thinking
22:19
Speaker 2: or awareness. And then we have that ability. As you've
22:23
Speaker 2: been with people many times who kind of look at
22:26
Speaker 2: you and go at forty years or forty five or fifty,
22:29
Speaker 2: they look at you go, this wasn't my plan, This
22:33
Speaker 2: wasn't you know? And then you say, or I say,
22:35
Speaker 2: can I see the plan? And they go, what do
22:38
Speaker 2: you mean? I go, the plan of which you speak grasshopper,
22:41
Speaker 2: can I see it? There was no fucking plan. There
22:44
Speaker 2: was just an idea of how it would all eventuate.
22:49
Speaker 1: That's so good. Well, you know, I think I remember this.
22:54
Speaker 1: You were you were doing a presentation at an event.
22:59
Speaker 1: I think we bo war, But I remember a scenario
23:03
Speaker 1: that you threw up, and what you were talking about
23:06
Speaker 1: is the difference between absolute and personal truths, like things
23:10
Speaker 1: that are true no matter what you know, versus things
23:13
Speaker 1: that are true only for me and the impact. And
23:16
Speaker 1: you brought up three people or four people onto the stage.
23:19
Speaker 1: It was like, okay, these three people all got sacked
23:21
Speaker 1: on the very same day. And like one person believes that,
23:25
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is the worst thing. The job
23:27
Speaker 1: markets like so saturated. I'm not gonna find another job.
23:30
Speaker 1: This is the worst day of my life. You know,
23:33
Speaker 1: it's over. And then another person's like, oh man, you
23:35
Speaker 1: know what, this is a great chance for me to
23:37
Speaker 1: do like a little for sabbatical. I'm gonna learn new skills,
23:41
Speaker 1: reinvent myself, get better. Another person's like I didn't like
23:44
Speaker 1: this shitty job and career in the first place. I've
23:46
Speaker 1: been thinking about making a change. I'm gonna just go
23:49
Speaker 1: ahead and be like, I don't know, like somalia or
23:52
Speaker 1: yoga instructor something totally different. It's like, as you're going
23:57
Speaker 1: through and one person's just got anger management problems, person
24:00
Speaker 1: who was waiting to beat you to death with a brick,
24:02
Speaker 1: and the call parker remember that, and you're like, yeah,
24:05
Speaker 1: like for these people, for that guy, it really is
24:08
Speaker 1: the worst day of his life. It's the end of
24:11
Speaker 1: everything for you all the person, this is a chance
24:13
Speaker 1: for reinvention and growth. For somebody else, it's a chance
24:17
Speaker 1: to do something completely new. It's a career adventure. And
24:21
Speaker 1: that other guy is going to probably spend the rest
24:23
Speaker 1: of his life in jail because he's murdered you later
24:25
Speaker 1: on that day to the head of the HR department.
24:28
Speaker 1: So it's like there's four same exact thing happened, but
24:32
Speaker 1: there's four different realities and outcomes. It's not like, well,
24:36
Speaker 1: I have an opinion about this, I am going to
24:39
Speaker 1: engage with the world as if that is true. And
24:43
Speaker 1: the thing I want to bring up from a coaching perspective, yes,
24:46
Speaker 1: that is true, But what else is true? Because there's
24:50
Speaker 1: three other truths in that scenario, and I'm sure it's
24:53
Speaker 1: not limited to those three other truths. What's a possibility? Oh,
24:59
Speaker 1: you know, today I had a random thought. I was
25:03
Speaker 1: sitting down, I was working. I don't know if you
25:05
Speaker 1: do this when I'm doing content creation. I listened to
25:07
Speaker 1: instrumental music because it kind of helps keep me focused
25:11
Speaker 1: in the zone and creative. I was listening to Henry
25:13
Speaker 1: Mancini's Nadist theme and it's just this beautiful instrumental and
25:18
Speaker 1: it wasn't written for Nadia Komenich, but like it kind
25:23
Speaker 1: of led my mind to Nadio Kominicic and stuff that
25:26
Speaker 1: we were talking about. And have you ever seen the
25:31
Speaker 1: story that the film about Nadiya kominicch No.
25:36
Speaker 2: And for those our younger listeners who don't know who
25:39
Speaker 2: she is, she was arguably, along with Olga Kohr, but
25:42
Speaker 2: at the greatest female gymnast, Olympic gymnast of all time,
25:45
Speaker 2: I think, remaining Bobby and the first to score old men's.
25:49
Speaker 1: Or perfect ten. I think she did it like seven times. So,
25:55
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about this one scene in this film.
25:58
Speaker 1: It's It's kind of an old, low budget film but fantastic.
26:02
Speaker 1: It's about Nay Komenich and she's It starts off she's
26:07
Speaker 1: she's six years old and she's in She's in a
26:10
Speaker 1: playground in Romania doing cartwheels, and this guy comes up
26:14
Speaker 1: to her and approaches her. And if the story ends there,
26:17
Speaker 1: it's very dodgy, like.
26:19
Speaker 2: Right on this film, it sounds bad so far.
26:23
Speaker 1: But this this guy was Bella Coroli, her coach, and
26:28
Speaker 1: he just he sees this kid and he's like, he
26:30
Speaker 1: recognizes instant innate talent, like you know, like I'm hearing
26:35
Speaker 1: Paul Taylor with the Sesame Street song. You know, one
26:38
Speaker 1: of these kids is doing his own thing. One of
26:40
Speaker 1: these kids is not the same. So he sees something
26:43
Speaker 1: spectacular and he goes over to this kid and he
26:47
Speaker 1: kneels down and he asks this crazy question. He says,
26:52
Speaker 1: do you believe it's possible for a little girl to fly?
26:58
Speaker 1: She's six years old doing car wheels in a playground? Like,
27:02
Speaker 1: what is she gonna say at six? She says nothing,
27:07
Speaker 1: because this girl is built differently. She just stares him
27:12
Speaker 1: in the face and very slowly and certainly nods her
27:17
Speaker 1: head yes and he looks back at her, and it's it,
27:20
Speaker 1: and he says, so do I And I find that
27:25
Speaker 1: story so powerful, whether it happened or not, or it's
27:28
Speaker 1: a film, you know, like in poetic license interpretation, because
27:34
Speaker 1: she's she's arguably not the greatest that ever lived, like
27:38
Speaker 1: Simone Bile has already surpassed her. But why do we
27:41
Speaker 1: celebrate a Nadia. We celebrate a Nadia company because she
27:48
Speaker 1: did it when nobody believed it was possible, Like, so
27:52
Speaker 1: there was no precedent, So she attained the unattainable. And
27:58
Speaker 1: that's very different than having that models for you. That's
28:01
Speaker 1: very different and not any less remarkable. I mean, you're
28:04
Speaker 1: competing in the Olympics, regardless, you're a remarkable human being
28:08
Speaker 1: who's endured and invested a lot of hard work and sacrifice.
28:12
Speaker 1: But to attain the unattainable, then where did that start?
28:16
Speaker 1: It started with two people exploring a possibility. So she
28:23
Speaker 1: didn't win, she didn't win, and a gold medal by
28:27
Speaker 1: earning a perfect ten in nineteen seventy four in the
28:30
Speaker 1: Olympics in Canada at fourteen. It began that day, at
28:35
Speaker 1: six years old, on the school yard.
28:37
Speaker 2: Yeah power, Yeah, I love I love that and not
28:41
Speaker 2: totally dissimilar Customato and Mike Tyson when that I think
28:47
Speaker 2: he was thirteen years old, and yeah, and I think
28:52
Speaker 2: this is I reckon. This is one of the tough things,
28:55
Speaker 2: is so I reckon. There's two Well, there's probably ten
28:59
Speaker 2: groups people, but two groups of people amongst the ten
29:03
Speaker 2: groups listening now. One group is thinking, yeah, I wouldn't
29:06
Speaker 2: mind working with somebody to help me do A B
29:09
Speaker 2: and C right, and with my whatever it is with
29:12
Speaker 2: my business, my brand, my body, my whatever, my mind,
29:16
Speaker 2: my habits, my behaviors, whatever. And then there's another group
29:19
Speaker 2: who are thinking, I would like to become a coach.
29:23
Speaker 2: You know, I'm fascinated with personal growth and psychology and
29:26
Speaker 2: human behavior and coaching, you know. So there's two. There's
29:30
Speaker 2: two kind of groups, distinct groups that I'm thinking about
29:33
Speaker 2: in the middle of all of the groups listening now.
29:35
Speaker 2: But so one of my questions out of that kind
29:38
Speaker 2: of awareness is, and I know there's no fucking simple answers,
29:45
Speaker 2: So let's just talk about the answer. How do we
29:48
Speaker 2: find the right person? Because you know, like, uh, I know,
29:56
Speaker 2: for lots of people, I was the right person, not
29:58
Speaker 2: for everybody, not for every everybody, by the way, Like,
30:01
Speaker 2: if you need somebody who's going to, you know, tell
30:03
Speaker 2: you every day you're amazing and special and incredible and unique.
30:07
Speaker 2: I'm not the person. I'm not the person, but you know,
30:12
Speaker 2: I think one of the reasons that I did okay
30:16
Speaker 2: after you know, lots of failures and fuck ups, but
30:19
Speaker 2: was you know. I literally would say to my clients,
30:23
Speaker 2: I care about you. I want you to get amazing results.
30:27
Speaker 2: I want to help you explore your potential. But my
30:30
Speaker 2: job is not to make you feel good every day.
30:33
Speaker 2: That's not my job. And if that's what you need,
30:36
Speaker 2: then you don't need a coach, by the way, because
30:39
Speaker 2: that's not a coach's job either. So if we are
30:43
Speaker 2: in the group where we're thinking about maybe working with someone, like,
30:47
Speaker 2: what are the attributes and qualities that you think matter?
30:51
Speaker 2: Or maybe even more, you know, stepping back, how the
30:54
Speaker 2: fuck do we find that person? Is it recommendation? Is
30:57
Speaker 2: it trial and error? Like I don't think the internet
31:01
Speaker 2: is on that person.
31:03
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that there are directories, Like with my
31:08
Speaker 1: National Board certification, you know you could. I don't even
31:12
Speaker 1: think I've registered, so you can't find me. Actually, but
31:17
Speaker 1: most people do when they have a certain credential, they
31:21
Speaker 1: register and you can go on the website and you
31:22
Speaker 1: can find them, or if you go to the International
31:27
Speaker 1: Coaching Federation ICF, they have listings of their PCC and MCC.
31:33
Speaker 1: Those are your professional coaches or your master level coaches,
31:37
Speaker 1: which you know, if they've got that credential, they have
31:40
Speaker 1: invested a lot of hours in training and development into
31:45
Speaker 1: becoming a skilled coach. So that's something really good. But
31:49
Speaker 1: I will say this, Michael Lambert did a meta analysis
31:54
Speaker 1: on seventeen studies exploring what accounts for the variants of
31:58
Speaker 1: success outcomes which within coaching and therapy. He found the
32:03
Speaker 1: thirty to fifty percent of the outcomes depended on the
32:06
Speaker 1: relationship dynamic between therapist and patient, coach and client. So
32:12
Speaker 1: that's something really important. It's kind of like dating, like
32:15
Speaker 1: just to share something like you know my wife and
32:17
Speaker 1: I Amy. You know Amy and I she I see
32:21
Speaker 1: I listen, you're the best, You're the best. Yeah, I
32:24
Speaker 1: told her about that.
32:26
Speaker 2: While you're pausing, I asked Bobby last time, everyone if
32:30
Speaker 2: you didn't listen, if because he says my wife, my wife,
32:33
Speaker 2: I'm like, just tell us her name, bro, It's okay,
32:35
Speaker 2: And then you can just say moving forward, Amy, I
32:38
Speaker 2: want to know who's Michael Lambert because you spoke of this.
32:41
Speaker 1: He's a researcher and he basically wanted to determine what
32:49
Speaker 1: accounts for success within a coaching relationship. So he I
32:55
Speaker 1: think it was seventeen studies that he looked at. And
33:00
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of things that do account is
33:02
Speaker 1: it the methodology, it's is how someone's trained. You know,
33:06
Speaker 1: what school of therapy or coaching did they come from? Yes, yes,
33:09
Speaker 1: all that's important, but one of the biggest contributing factors
33:14
Speaker 1: is the relationship. So that's key. And when we were
33:19
Speaker 1: going for you know, like counseling, you know, we looked
33:24
Speaker 1: around a bit and there's just there's got to be
33:29
Speaker 1: this rapport because the first step in coaching is engagement.
33:34
Speaker 1: Like before you get down to okay, well, what are
33:36
Speaker 1: we really going to focus on? What's most important about that?
33:39
Speaker 1: What's our plan? How do we move forward and actualize that.
33:43
Speaker 1: You've got to be engaged and you've got to feel
33:46
Speaker 1: safe with your coach. There's got to be a level
33:49
Speaker 1: of rapport. And there's a lot of coaches that are fantastic,
33:52
Speaker 1: they just might not be fantastic for you. It's like dating.
33:55
Speaker 1: You meet someone, they're attractive, they're lovely, but you know what,
33:58
Speaker 1: there's no spark, there's no real chemistry there. So talking
34:02
Speaker 1: to a coach in advance would really help. And you know,
34:07
Speaker 1: sometimes you work with a coach and you realize, I
34:10
Speaker 1: know this has happened to me. Hey, this was great,
34:12
Speaker 1: this was helpful. But I don't really think long term,
34:15
Speaker 1: this is the coach for me. And that's fine. So
34:17
Speaker 1: you might not find the coach you might. You might
34:20
Speaker 1: have to bounce around a little bit. I do think
34:27
Speaker 1: that any coach that has a message like, oh this
34:31
Speaker 1: is this is my message in coaching walk away. You
34:35
Speaker 1: don't have a message as a coach. A client has
34:38
Speaker 1: a message as a public speaker an educator. Yeah, what's
34:41
Speaker 1: your point of view? What's your message? You've got a podcast,
34:44
Speaker 1: what's your message? And a coaching situation like your message
34:49
Speaker 1: is irrelevant? Yeah, right, So a good coach will probably
34:54
Speaker 1: ask you more questions in the beginning than I think.
34:57
Speaker 2: Also, sorry, buddy, I think also you know, knowing that
35:01
Speaker 2: there there's what's going to work for one person won't
35:05
Speaker 2: work for another, and what might be optimal for clell
35:08
Speaker 2: be terrible for Bobby or you know, when people would
35:12
Speaker 2: back in the day when personal training was brand new,
35:15
Speaker 2: you know, in the late eighties early nineties in Australia,
35:19
Speaker 2: and I was trying to figure out what the fuck
35:20
Speaker 2: I was doing. And I'm like, how do I do
35:22
Speaker 2: this one on one thing with human beings? And you know,
35:25
Speaker 2: how do I build a business and a product and
35:28
Speaker 2: a service around this fundamental thing of me and another
35:31
Speaker 2: human in the gym, you know, And then realizing, oh,
35:34
Speaker 2: it's not only about you know, anatomy and physiology and
35:37
Speaker 2: biomechanics and movement. It's also about conversation and stories and
35:41
Speaker 2: beliefs and values and inspiration and anxiety and fucking body
35:46
Speaker 2: dysmorphia and all of these variables. And I was trying
35:50
Speaker 2: to figure out how like what's the best way to
35:54
Speaker 2: do this? And then I realized there's no best way,
35:57
Speaker 2: Like there's one hundred best ways. So I would have
36:01
Speaker 2: some people that would literally go, I'm going to train
36:04
Speaker 2: with you for four to eight weeks and then fuck off,
36:07
Speaker 2: and I would go, great, and then they would do that,
36:10
Speaker 2: and then they'd say, but what I'd like to do
36:13
Speaker 2: is could I pop back a once every four weeks
36:15
Speaker 2: for a kind of a touching base, and I go,
36:18
Speaker 2: you can do whatever you want, you know. And then
36:21
Speaker 2: I would have people who lived one hundred miles away
36:23
Speaker 2: who obviously couldn't train with me regularly, so they would
36:28
Speaker 2: drive down once a month and we would spend two
36:30
Speaker 2: or three hours together. We'd do a workout, we'd have
36:32
Speaker 2: a conversation, we'd do an assessment. We might even go
36:36
Speaker 2: and have a cup of coffee. But we would talk
36:38
Speaker 2: about the last month and the next month. We'd do
36:40
Speaker 2: some planning, we'd strategize, we'd set a timeline, we'd create accountability.
36:45
Speaker 2: And so there was just in that coaching capacity there
36:51
Speaker 2: was a range of options to suit a range of
36:54
Speaker 2: personalities and practical needs. It's not like, oh, we sell
36:59
Speaker 2: cheese samges and ham sandwiches, pick one or the other. No,
37:03
Speaker 2: there's literally like a small gus board of coaching options,
37:08
Speaker 2: and if what you want isn't on there, we can
37:10
Speaker 2: probably fucking make it out the back and do it anyway.
37:13
Speaker 1: You know. Oh, that is so absolutely important. Although I
37:18
Speaker 1: would say it would be kind of cool if you
37:20
Speaker 1: hired a coach and they made you ham and cheese sandwich.
37:22
Speaker 1: That would be nice, but I think when it comes
37:28
Speaker 1: to that, avoid coaches. And I'm going to piss off
37:32
Speaker 1: a lot of people when I say this, but it's
37:34
Speaker 1: how I feel, so fucking I'm going with it. You
37:36
Speaker 1: do that, avoid coaches with a methodology, like, well, I
37:40
Speaker 1: have my own methodology. Again, it's all centered on them.
37:44
Speaker 1: There is enough empirical evidence that goes into multiple coaching
37:50
Speaker 1: models and methodologies. You don't have to name one after yourself.
37:55
Speaker 1: That's not the coach you're looking for.
37:57
Speaker 2: Ha ha. And well it's funny you say that because
38:02
Speaker 2: I was about to announce the Harper methods, So oh fuck,
38:05
Speaker 2: this is awkward and cringey.
38:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's something that I would stay away from.
38:10
Speaker 1: Like so with with the coaches that I work with
38:14
Speaker 1: now currently on my team, they're they take a lot
38:19
Speaker 1: of initiative. They're really great with seeking out information, and
38:23
Speaker 1: when they first got hired, obviously they wanted to absorb everything.
38:27
Speaker 1: And one day I came in like, oh, we've been
38:28
Speaker 1: you know, we've been like looking up and reading a
38:31
Speaker 1: lot on coaching, and you know, we went to YouTube
38:33
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, tell me more about that,
38:36
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh my god, We're watching all these
38:38
Speaker 1: great coaches, and I'm just like, Okay, So when you're
38:44
Speaker 1: when you're reading about coaching, right, you're picking up a
38:48
Speaker 1: book like Appreciative Inqureer reading about self determination, what are
38:53
Speaker 1: the distinctions? Is anything different than when you are reading
39:00
Speaker 1: being evidence based tools around coaching? When you see someone
39:05
Speaker 1: coaching on a stage with someone in front of an
39:08
Speaker 1: audience to two thousand people, what are the differences? And
39:12
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that if you do this, I mean
39:15
Speaker 1: I know people that have done this. I know you've
39:17
Speaker 1: done this. I know I've done this. So it's a
39:20
Speaker 1: bit hypocritical. Nick Jarvis, who I think you know? You know,
39:26
Speaker 1: I used to work with him a lot. He's done this.
39:29
Speaker 1: So but a lot of times when you're watching someone
39:34
Speaker 1: at an event, anyone with an issue in the audience,
39:38
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, we're off to an interesting start to
39:41
Speaker 1: begin with. Come up, and I'm going to coach you.
39:44
Speaker 1: When that person gets off the stage, right, If people
39:48
Speaker 1: in the audience are going, oh my god, that coach
39:52
Speaker 1: was amazing, that's not a coach. Don't hire that person.
39:57
Speaker 1: That person is performative, and they are a talented speaker,
40:02
Speaker 1: and they are a question askser, which is not the
40:05
Speaker 1: heart of coaching, is not asking better questions. I am
40:08
Speaker 1: so sick of hearing that shit. That's not what you want.
40:13
Speaker 1: You don't want a coach that is a spectacular performer,
40:16
Speaker 1: because when you watch a really highly skilled coach, it
40:21
Speaker 1: kind of it's almost like, what are they doing? It's
40:24
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit boring. Who really shines in
40:29
Speaker 1: that process is the client. And it takes so much
40:33
Speaker 1: skill and years of practice to show up and be caring, empathetic, open,
40:42
Speaker 1: curious and have everything look like you're doing barely anything
40:48
Speaker 1: at all. But you're just asking questions, you're just reflecting
40:52
Speaker 1: things back. If there's not there doesn't have to be
40:56
Speaker 1: that area of boredom because coaching is very exciting because
41:00
Speaker 1: it's dealing with the client's favorite subject themselves. But if
41:04
Speaker 1: you would watch someone and go, oh, that that's like
41:06
Speaker 1: a superstar coach, it.
41:08
Speaker 2: Might not be Yeah, yeah, it's so, I bloody love this,
41:14
Speaker 2: hey mate. Unfortunately, we've got to wind up because just
41:17
Speaker 2: because I've got something I need to do in seventeen
41:19
Speaker 2: minutes at another venue that is not the current venue
41:22
Speaker 2: I am at. So I feel this is a time
41:26
Speaker 2: for you to plug yourself and tell.
41:27
Speaker 1: People about like, are you begging your button? Are you?
41:31
Speaker 2: Are you still available to coach people like I know
41:33
Speaker 2: that you can do it on Zoom anyway, and not
41:35
Speaker 2: too many of our listeners live around the corner from you,
41:38
Speaker 2: but so feel free to blatantly, just bloody share your
41:43
Speaker 2: wares off your services or tell people where they can
41:46
Speaker 2: find and connect and.
41:47
Speaker 1: All that I am not available for one on one
41:51
Speaker 1: coaching simply do not have that bandwidth. But I am
41:54
Speaker 1: absolutely available to answer any questions or concerns or help
41:58
Speaker 1: you navigate through the coaching land landscape to the best
42:01
Speaker 1: of my ability. You can find me at Robert Capuccio
42:03
Speaker 1: dot com, the self albandad dot com. I'm on LinkedIn.
42:09
Speaker 1: I even checked my messages occasionally, so wow, yeah, sent
42:13
Speaker 1: me a DM there.
42:14
Speaker 2: You didn't You didn't check your messages today? Did you?
42:16
Speaker 2: From Jumbo?
42:18
Speaker 1: Why don't check them five times a day? I do
42:20
Speaker 1: like one daily check in. You missed? You missed my
42:24
Speaker 1: check in window?
42:27
Speaker 2: Oh dear well, I will say goodbye affair. But as always, mate,
42:31
Speaker 2: I appreciate that that was great. I really I would
42:33
Speaker 2: actually like to revisit that and do part two of that,
42:36
Speaker 2: because I feel like we're halfway through that conversation. But
42:40
Speaker 2: we may even pick it up next week, but we'll
42:42
Speaker 2: see how we go. But for now, mate, thank you,
42:44
Speaker 2: see you next week.
42:45
Speaker 1: Thank you mate, thank you everyone,